The Q4 numbers are in for Apple and they’re good. Quite good. Really good.
The company posted revenue of $9.87 billion and a net quarterly profit of $1.67 billion, or $1.82 per diluted share. Apple’s own earnings projections for Q4 were $1.23 a share, but they always put them laughably low. Analysts’ projections expected them to be around $1.42 a share, but some were looking for numbers as high as $1.60 a share. Apple beat all of those, easily.
Apple sold 3.05 million Macs in the quarter, up 17 percent from a year ago. They also sold 7.4 million iPhones in the quarter, a 7 percent growth from a year ago. Both of those are record sales numbers, CEO Steve Jobs notes.
By comparison, in Q3 of this year, Apple sold 5.2 million iPhones. That was a huge 626 percent growth over the year ago period, when they sold just 717,000 iPhones. But part of that difference was because the iPhone 3GS came out in June of this year whereas last year, it was out in July, right near the end of the quarter.
iPod numbers, on the other hand, continued to go the wrong way. The company sold 10.2 million iPods last quarter, an eight percent decline from the year ago period.
Looking ahead, Apple is expecting Q1 2010 to see a revenue range of $11.3 billion to $11.6 billion. It expects diluted earnings per share in the range of about $1.70 to $1.78. This timeframe of course includes the all-important holiday shopping season, but there’s another key change coming that may put more money on the books. [Update: Apple says it's not reflecting this change just yet in Q1 2010, they must by Q1 2011, see notes below.]
New accounting rules will allow Apple to count money made of off its so-called “subscription” devices, the iPhone and the Apple TV, immediately, rather than spreading the money over a 2-year period. Though there is no real change in units moved, this should add billions of dollars to its bottom line when it happens.
Jobs also noted that the company has some “really great new products in the pipeline for 2010.” Tablet, anyone?
Below, find our live-blog of the Q4 earnings call
On the call: Apple CFO Peter Oppenheimer, Apple COO Tim Cook, as well as Apple’s Treasurer.
Note are paraphrased
- PO: We’re extremely please to report Apple’s most profitable quarter ever. Thrilled will the results, especially in this economic environment. Operating margin was Apple’s highest ever.
- Beating previous Mac sales record by 440,000. Faster than market growth in 19 of the last 20 quarters.
- Portable sales up 35% year over year. Big growth in Asia/Pacific market. Back to schools sales were strong, highest sales ever for U.S. education.
- Sales of OS X Snow Leopard release was twice as fast as Leopard. (It was much cheaper.)
- 10.2 million iPods, a year ago we sold 11 million. 50% of recent iPod buyers were still buying their first iPod. People love the iPod nano’s new video camera.
- Sales of iPod touch were up 100% year over year. App Store and new $199 helped this.
- Over 70% for share of U.S. MP3 market.
- iTunes had another great quarter. Customers love iTunes 9. Store in 23 countries, iTunes is the worlds largest retailer. 7,500 films now.
- New record for iPhone sales.
- New record for iPhone sales. Response to iPhone 3GS is tremendous. Leading in JD Power report in consumer and business.
- Looking forward to selling the iPhone in China next month. Also expanding carriers in UK and Canada.
- 85,000 apps now, 2 billion downloads – half billion in September quarter alone.
- Apple retail stores had a record quarter. Revenue $1.87 billion versus $1.72 billion a year ago. Most Mac sales ever, about half were to new customers. Opened 15 new stores; now have 273 stores.
- Why’d we do better than expected? We sold more Snow Leopard and spent less on iPod transition than planned. And component costs were below what we expected.
- $34 billion in cash at end of September versus $31 billion last quarter. We still plan to use this for preservation of capital.
- In September, the new accounting rules were approved, so that will change things for us (see above). We don’t know how much that will add, but it should add a good amount. We’re pleased with this new rule.
- We have to do this by Q1 2011, but we can do it in 2010. We’re thinking about it right now, but nothing more specific for right now.
- Confident in new product pipeline. Very enthusiastic about the year ahead.
Q&A Session:
Q: Factors in next quarters guidance?
PO: Sales of lower-margin products. Lower Snow Leopard sales than last quarter. Component costs will be higher.
Q: Could you discuss iPhone inventory?
TC: Most of the countries had low inventory for much of the quarter as demand was high. But we improved supply in September. We have 2.4 million units in the channel.
Q: Are you comfortable with that with China launching?
TC: I would have liked to have had more.
Q: Excitement about China that you can talk about?
TC: We’re thrilled to be launching there October 30th with China Unicom. At higher price points, people will be able to get the iPhone for free. We have always seen quite a few iPhones going into China (illegally) so we’re excited. We’re not making projections on the volume yet though.
Q: Updated comments on the economy?
TC: We’ll leave the economy forecasting to economists.
Q: Will multiple carrier change the pricing of the phone in places?
TC: Can’t comment on pricing, but generally speaking, in our other markets, I wouldn’t expect the wholesale price to be different with more carriers. But the end-user price is set by the carriers themselves.
Q: Seasonality in the different quarters?
TC: We don’t have a lot of data to look at since we’ve only been selling for a couple years, and in some countries just a few months, so it’s hard to tell.
TC: We also hope to roll out in Korea this upcoming quarter as well.
Q: What are you thoughts for competition for the iPhone in the holiday season, like Android?
TC: Almost 21 million for the fiscal year sold now in terms of iPhones, so we have momentum. Plus the App Store with 85,000 apps is so far beyond anyone else. We feel good about competing with anyone. I think people are still trying to catch up with the first iPhone, announced 2 years ago. We’ve moved beyond that.
Q: Were you happy about mix of iPhone 3GS versus the $99 one?
TC: iPhone 3GS demand did exceed expectations. We quickly shifted. There’s an intense appetite for Apple’s latest technology (non-answer).
Q: Talk about the Mac business.
TC: Last quarter was the quarter of the portables.
Q: Snow Leopard penetration?
TC: The upgrade sales were more than double with what we saw in the initial period for Leopard. That’s much higher than we had planned. Yes, the price cut worked.
Q: What are the benefits of having exclusive agreements with carriers for the iPhone?
TC: In an exclusive agreement you can have a level of innovation that’s different if you had several carriers. Visual Voicemail is an example. And in some cases an exclusive carrier may be willing to invest more.
Q: Mac business next quarter, will units be flat?
TC: We don’t give Mac-specific forecasts, but you should consider the September quarter was benefited from 50,000 order from the state of Maine. We also had Snow Leopard that moved units.
Q: How much would you have shipped if you had adequate supply of iPhones this quarter?
TC: Hard to say, obviously.
Q: Still expect the iPhone to be in 80 countries soon?
TC: We ship the 3G in 80 today, 64 for the iPhone 3GS, I suspect that will be past 80 by the end of the calendar year.
Q: Is the native Exchange support in Snow Leopard helping the corporate market? What about the iPhone?
TC: With the iPhone 3GS we’ve seen strong demand in the corporate space. It’s now in well over 50% of the Fortune 100 companies. And it’s great abroad too. Over 350 higher ed institutions now approve iPhone for their staff. And sales are good in the government arena. Snow Leopard numbers aren’t ready to be shared yet, but Exchange clearly makes this simple.
That’s it. Not one question on the whole Google Voice fiasco. Disappointing.
[photo: flickr/davidgsteadman]
Yeah, Apple role the world. Even Microsoft can not keep it up.
I’m not sure I’ll last long.
If apple fails to show following innovation within a year, there will be downhill.
You would think for a company that has consistently launching innovative products for the last ten years or so you would cut them some slack.
The iMac was 1998… I think the one thing you can’t complain about with Apple is innovation.
Steve Jobs wouldn’t say the Apple has some “really great new products in the pipeline for 2010.” Apple seems to say that every time they’ve got something exciting/innovative going on and as Pete mention Apple has never really disappointed in the past ten years (or Jobs second coming), especially when they think the pipeline is looking good.
I think an innovation would be great. They keep doing good quarter after good quarter with no innovations. Imagine what it would be like if they came along with a tablet? AAPL would shoot up. My 2 cents.
No innovations? Man, you should let Microsoft and every phone manufacturer on the face of the earth know that. Because I’m pretty sure the reason they are trying to make their products look as much like Apple products as possible is that they actually think Apple is innovating. Imagine what it would be like if they knew Apple was totally pulling a fast one on them, just doing the same thing over and over and raking in the money! Then the other companies wouldn’t have to try so hard! Oh, wait…
Innovation?
You are joking. Apple is the only tech company consistently showing innovation.
You are kidding, right?
Please tell me you’re kidding and aren’t that ignorant in real life.
I think you have a super narrow definition of innovation. The rest of the world are happy to view the products as new (to the mainstream / in a useable form) e.g. ipod, itunes, iphone, app store – perhaps non of these things are truly unique – but i would allow apple the indulgence of calling these innovative for delivering them either actually useable or to a standard a league ahead of anyone else (at that moment in time).
Saying the iphone isn’t innovative – really? Remember before that everyone was using stylus’s for touch phones? Viewing web pages mangled in an awful browser? Taking low res photos with naff low tech in built cameras. Oh wait…
Well you might, Sam, but then you would really be using an incredibly narrow definition of innovation.
Apple are innovative but to suggest that they’re the only tech company who are is unbelievably silly.
Unless you think Google or even Microsoft really aren’t innovative that is.
“Yeah, Apple role the world.”
Do you mean “rule”?
No, I’m sure he meant ‘role’ – you know, like the bun.
clearly.
should be “apple roll the world”…. ; )
Actually I should really address this post because it sums up what’s wrong with the view that some of the tech world has of Apple.
Let’s look at the numbers…
* Apple sold 3.05 million Macs. If you take Gartner and IDC’s figures there were about 75 million PCs sold so the Mac share is less than 4% of the market.
Let’s go over that again. Less than 4%.
* Apple sold 7.4 million iPhones. Assuming their international split is reflected here that means, say, 3.7 million in the US and 3.7 million everywhere else. As a comparator, Nokia – who don’t sell in the US to any meaningful level – sold 16.4 million smartphones. I’ll be kind and chop a third off because of their Chinese market which leaves 11 million or roughly three times as many units as iPhones this quarter.
In addition the iPhone sales rate has gone up by 7% (probably a little higher as some 3GS sales will be reflected in the previous quarter’s sales). This kind of suggests two things:
1) Quite a lot of those sales come from existing iPhone owners upgrading.
2) There are a good but not spectacular number of new customers.
Or, in other words, it’s approaching a ceiling. Sure, China will bolster numbers by a few million but this doesn’t look like a 50 million a year product. It’s probably half that. Maybe 30 million at a push.
* The iPod market is saturated. People are buying iPod Touches (but not the 100% increase rather than quoting an actual figure) but Nanos, Classic and Shuffles are probably refresh only now, if at all.
So, from a sales point of view, Apple are a very minor player in the computer world, have a reasonable but not earth shattering stake in the smartphone market and have pushed the PMP market as far as it’s going to go.
From a financial point of view it’s rather different though because Apple charge a premium for their products (approaching 40% margin on hardware is awesome from their point of view). This is actually kind of funny when you read the cheerleading because what it means is that Apple are effectively chiseling us for all we’re worth and we love it. So when they say they’ve made a billion quid profit and you shout “hoorah!” you’re actually celebrating contributing towards that huge margin.
Let’s be clear: Apple don’t give a shit about you, just your money. Celebrating paying over the odds is like applauding someone who hits you over the head with a cricket bat.
That’s why they have umpteen billions in the bank. Because we paid more than we had to. I don’t know about you but whilst I love my Macbook I kind of don’t feel like celebrating that fact.
So, no. Apple aren’t going to ‘role’ or even rule the world. They’re not going to displace Microsoft and they don’t dominate the smartphone market (maybe the US but that’s a small market compared to EMEA and Asia) and whilst they do dominate PMPs they’ve kind of milked that market as far as it’ll go and al the wishful thinking penned by starry eyed journalists/bloggers and analysts isn’t going to change that.
But yeah. They do have shedloads of cold hard cash. They just don’t know what the hell to do with it other than keep it as padding when the inevitable flattening of growth happens.
When and on what is Apple going to spend their money on?
Eventually they will be forced by their investors to return some of it to them in the form of a dividend. There’s a cash horde, and then there’s ridiculous.
Unless Jobs plans on unveiling some expensive future plans pretty soon.
AT&T
How much is AT&T as a whole worth?
What about just the wireless portion?
They’ll spend it on wideband spectrum of the airwaves so that they become their own carrier and control every aspect of how you receive information.
That would be great. I’m sure they would do a far better job than AT&T and Verizon. And Apple’s track record with digital media (nearly single-handedly killing DRM’d music, supporting open standards like MPEG-4 instead of trying to force proprietary codecs on the rest of the world like MS, etc.) indicates that they would far less interested in restricting what you can do with a data pipe than other U.S. carriers.
Q4? Do you mean Q3? Or are these numbers Q4 2008?
fiscal q4
Has me wondering too….
Now I understand:
http://en.wikip...iki/Fiscal_year
yeah, apple is tricky like that.
Lies. Just marketing trying to offset the Windows 7 onslaught.
Well I did by a nano and iTouch this year…
And own an iMac, classic iPod, and a macbook.
Sheesh they could be right, I own more Apple products than I even figured.
And the Android onslaught, too. As in the mid-1990’s Apple is officially a beleaguered company. Then again, betting against Apple is not a sure thing.
Onslaught? And what brings you to that conclusion?
Win7 will sell slightly better than Vista, but only because more PC’s are aging out and MS can force it through OEM’s as usual. Direct to consumer sales will be negligible because it offers nothing compelling compared to a Mac. It looks more like OS X than WinXP did, and the performance is slightly less horrible than Vista (but only very slightly, according to recent tests by PC World). It’s still not nearly as fast as XP and it doesn’t run any exclusive, must-have software.
MS’ customer base is business users, not consumers, and business users don’t place much value on an OS that looks more like OS X. If they valued that sort of thing, they would buy Macs. What they want is the most dirt-cheap piece of silicon in a box that will run Word, Excel, a browser and whatever custom (usually old) apps they have. None of that requires or even benefits from a surface-level imitation of an Apple-like user experience. So I fail to understand where these predictions of Win7 dominance come from, because they’re certainly not based on facts or market analysis.
Actually they are, Ryan. The corporate adoption surveys for W7 transition are much more encouraging than Vista’s and better than XPs. In addition W7 offers a much more compelling consumer experience.
I doubt that W7 will win back many converts or switch the Mac faithful – other than those poor souls who’ve made the wrong OS choice because they’re dual booting – but it will stop the rot.
I just played a Blu-ray level 1080p video on my new HP Mini 311 ($399), through HDMI to a HDTV…
Flawlessly.
Go to your local Best Buy and see the mass stocking of Win7 computers.
I think many people confuse the popularity of iPhone/iPod with Mac computers, if it wasnt for Windows iTunes adoption, the iPod would have never been popular. Remember the iPod/iTunes was first released on Mac, then a few years later, they released the Windows version and the iPod skyrocketed.
I place my bets on Windows 7 not only wiping out the Mac platform but owning PC dominance for the next 15 years easy.
None of this makes much sense at all. Win 7 currently holds the record for preorders on Amazon and you’re saying consumers aren’t interested? Just about every review thus far has pegged it as the best OS from MS so far by a significant margin.
my macbook is dying!
The reason they sold so many iPhone’s is because AT&T is pricing the 3G’s like double cheeseburgers.
Exactly, compare the price of the 3G now to the price of another smartphone. Of course that will lead to more sales. Even comparable to the price of a non-smartphone, it’s worth the little extra for a lot more phone.
And I would think more iPhone sales would lead to more Mac sales, and vice versa
Oh, so now the iPhone is too cheap? Mofos are never happy lol.
I’m happy…I use a Blackberry on Verizon…
Oh, I’m sorry to hear that dear.
LMAO
No, it’s just that they can move so many units because AT&T sells the 3G retail at 99.99 and Refurb’d at 49.99. AT&T has some flip phones for more than $49.99 and even higher than 99.99.. you get the picture?
Right, they’re only selling because they’re cheap. When they were ridiculously expensive, they only sold because of “kool-aid”. The 3Gs is only selling like mad because, because…
Maybe they’re selling more and more every year in country after country at any price point because it’s the best product out there. Oh I forgot, that wouldn’t fit in with your bizarre conspiratorial paranoia.
yeah, that’s way too obvious.
Paranoia? You seriously think price has nothing to do with it? You’re a moron if you think the price dropping has nothing to do with it’s success or it’s success in general. How many unsubsidized iPhone 2G’s did they sell? Yeah, thanks for stating the obvious.
They give them away in other countries.
“Apple sold 5.2 million iPhones. That was a huge 626 percent growth over the year ago period” WOW it’s a big number. i wonder when they will over take RIM place.
hope your read that right, that was last quarter.
46% of sales were International.
Imagine how many iPhones they’ll sell in the US once they rid themselves of AT&T.
And that figure will only grow as more countries get the device.
Realistically though, how many more iPhone’s would be sold if T-Mobile sold it? Certainly more, but I doubt if many would switch carriers for TMs network.
That said, maybe Apple should spend some of that $34 billion in cash and buy T-Mobile and compete directly with ATT?
You really think people switched from Verizon because of AT&T’s good or even slightly below network?
..Sorry, AT&T is far behind Verizon as is T-Mobile, they didn’t switch for AT&T’s good coverage they switched for the iPhone. Same goes if they would have picked T-Mobile.
From all reports T-Mobile’s coverage map pales in comparison to AT&Ts, so I’m not sure how you arrive that they are at par with one another.
If they were, I don’t think we would have seen Apple stick it out with this exclusivity deal for as long.
I guess my problem with the “get rid of AT&T” mantra is that it ignores the fact that a CDMA iPhone just ain’t in the cards. Verizon might get a 4th gen iPhone with LTE, but that’s far away.
Seriously, are there any analyst predictions on how many iPhone sales Apple is losing due to not being sold by T-Mobile?
Regardless, I’m a Canadian who has somehow resisted the urge to buy an iPhone up to now; next month I’ll have 3 national carriers to choose from, up from one.
That has nothing to do with what I said, you 100% missed the point.
I switched from Windows to Mac this year after 15 years, and loved the Mac’s so much, i bought three 24″ iMac’s, one macbook and 2 iPhones, so i guess i contributed slightly to their revenues.
Oh, and i got an Apple tattoo. http://twitpic.com/h2×45
Wrong link there, my Apple tattoo: http://twitpic.com/h2×45
You’re kidding right….right?
Oppenheimer is blowing my mind. I hope he never shuts up.
How much is AT&T as a whole worth?
market cap is $150 billion. which is about $20 billion less than apple right now.
we arabs usually say ‘mashallah’ if we something mind blowing and this really deserves a mashallah
Well, I can’t wait until the new Windows comes out! Its going to win back market share for Microsoft.
Well you sound so excited, I hope you’re right. But remember, that’s exactly what people said about Vista, and the Zune, and WinMo 6.5, and Bing, and MSN Search Live, and the Pink phone…
“New accounting rules will allow Apple to count money made of off its so-called “subscription” devices, the iPhone and the Apple TV, immediately, rather than spreading the money over a 2-year period.”
How very Enronish. This is the type of stuff Lay, Skilling & Company were doing, booking multi-year contract revenue in the current quarter to show earnings growth. I’m surprised that FASB is allowing this. Of course heavy lobbying ( and by lobbying I mean cash contributions) by the tech industry didn’t hurt.
“New accounting rules will allow Apple to count money made of off its so-called “subscription” devices, the iPhone and the Apple TV, immediately, rather than spreading the money over a 2-year period.”
How very Enronish. This is the type of stuff Lay, Skilling & Company were doing, booking multi-year contract revenue in the current quarter to show earnings growth. I’m surprised that FASB is allowing this. Of course heavy lobbying ( and by lobbying I mean cash contributions) by the tech industry didn’t hurt. I wonder if this will change when all companies are forced to change to IFRS accounting standards?
WTF? Sorry about the double post.
Wow, that is truly amazing dude! Well done!
RT
http://www.anonymous.ua.tc
It’s not “Enronish”…the subscription accounting rules forced companies to collect $200 for a sale, then spread the reporting of that $200 out over 24 months so that the company could provide updates that included new functionality. This isn’t a case where money is reported as “earned” before it’s collected. It was, in fact, the opposite.
The vast majority of the money Apple gets for the iPhone is at the time of sale (upwards of 90% I believe) but, Apple isn’t the only company that pushed for this accounting change and it’s only a matter of time until this is abused. I’m sure companies were working on ways to abuse this before it even went into effect. Publically traded companies live and die by quarterly earnings and mark my words, there will be fraud.
iPhone Q4 unit sales increased by 7% over last year. Fine but not great. Are supply issues the only cause?
When is TC going to realize that no one (in the relative sense) cares about a free beta app that is restricted to 100,000 tech insider invites, that can’t be explained or used usefully by 80% of the population, but which is available to the iPhone via the web? They don’t think it’s a fiasco or think it’s relevant to a EARNINGS CALL because it isn’t. Or they haven’t even heard of it yet because GOOGLE won’t let them use it yet.
Do some work and get a freaking interview for yourselves; don’t expect a legitimate conference call be derailed by your hobbyhorse.
?
“don’t expect a legitimate conference call be derailed by your hobbyhorse.”
When did these circle jerks become legitimate?
Yes, Apple’s stock (and the overall market) has become much more expensive, and may consolidate a bit from here.
However, using a good market timing system can help an investor profit both from the upside and downside of this market.
Consider http://invetrics.com
Its daily DJIA index trading signal is up a respectable 64.84% for the year (as of October 19, 2009) and it is free of charge for individual investors.
“Q: Were you happy about mix of iPhone 3GS versus the $99 one?
TC: iPhone 3GS demand did exceed expectations. We quickly shifted. There’s an intense appetite for Apple’s latest technology (non-answer).”
Non-answer? It was a big, fat curve ball over the plate kind of answer, and you just stood there for the called strike. The only thing Cook didn’t do was jump on the table and dance.
Apple thought there would be more 3G sales in the mix, but people wanted the 3GS instead. Apple was backlogged and had to ramp up 3GS production. That’s a great position to be in, and OBVIOUSLY he’s happy about the mix.
he still sidestepped a question about $99 3G sales specifically. apple still won’t talk about that. clearly because they haven’t been great.
Exactly. Welcome to the phone business – when a new model comes out no-one wants the older one, especially when the new one isn’t that much more expensive.
I wonder if Windows 7 is going to put a damper on Mac sales. I would buy a Mac vs Vista.
But I’d probably by Win 7 vs Mac
http://www.trad...spx?symbol=aapl
Why? Win7 is just Vista with the most egregious bugs fixed. If you were already prepared to buy a Mac, you should note that OS X didn’t get *worse* just because MS was finally able to ship a working OS. In fact, Mac users just got a major upgrade with Snow Leopard.
Win7 is still very much a Windows OS. If you like Windows, you’ll like Win7 because it looks more like OS X (i.e. better), but that’s only visual. If you don’t like Windows, you still won’t like Win7 and you’ll be happier with a Mac, just like most people who’ve made the switch.
Great to see an innovative company executing so we
Great to see an innovative company executing so well.
apple sucks!!!!!!!!
Lucid and thoughtful comment.
I wonder how the future will look like by Apple ‘An Apple Jetson future’.
Me : He mac sup for the day.
My mac : Hello sir your schedule of the day is.
Me : Yeah Apple truly amazing.
Personally, the most impressive part of the earnings was the Mac side of the story, where growth is outpacing the rest of the market handily 17% to 2%.
Plus, when you understand how much of that growth is coming from Portables, you understand why the Tablet is inevitable, something that I blogged about in:
The Right Stuff: Analysis of Apple’s Q4 Earnings Call
http://bit.ly/RJAPA
Check it out, if interested.
Mark
Thats not a great comparison – Apple are outpacing their segment of the industry (premium brands) but not neccesarily individual companies.
If we were to do it the way you suggest then Acer would be way ahead of Apple which in profitability terms they’re not.
It’s a disingenuous comparison.
$34 billion cash and no debt gives them a stronger balance sheet than MSFT. I am surprised a company that has to manufacture so much hardware still has no debt. I remember though several years ago MSFT had a cash hoard of over $60 billion. They ended up giving away more than half of that in a special one time $3 dividend.
apple products owned = 0. Mac OS and hardware is just too limited for me. If they ever make an OS where i can use my own hardware configuration and have the OS running flawlessly then i’ll check them out. But until then the Mac OS is nothing impressive.
not enough open source for apples products.
Mac OS and hardware is just too limited? So you’re one of those people that has never actually used a product but is critiquing it I guess? I’m also pretty sure that when you compare OS X to Windows you’ll find Apple is far more open.
That said, I use PCs and Macs (my primary computer is a PC, my laptop is a MacBook Pro and I own an iPhone) – there are advantages to both. I think it’s funny the way people in this thread are slamming Apple and apparently holding them to a higher standard than the other manufacturers out there. Overall, Apple isn’t super innovative. However, compared to the majority of their competition they’re far more innovative. I’d say the only company right now that’s on the same level in terms of creativity is probably HP.
that is truly amazing dude! Well done!