Adobe is a big company, with a lots of products, but one of its strongest brands is Flash. So when Adobe contacted Envato, an Australian startup that operates a set of popular marketplaces for digital creative goods to change one of their marketplaces names, Envato had no choice. Envato operates a property called FlashDen, which sells Adobe Flash and Flex files like preloaders, galleries, site templates and utilities. Files are created and sold by a huge community of authors from all over the world.
Last week Adobe contacted Envato and asked Envato to change the name and URL of FlashDen so that it would no longer contain the term ‘Flash’, which is a registered trademark of Adobe. With little time, Envato changed the name from FlashDen to ActiveDen.
Seeing this change, we reached out to Collis Ta’eed, the CEO of Envato, and he mentioned that Envato received a letter from a law firm representing Adobe asking to change FlashDen’s name. Envato followed through, not wanting more legal problems with Adobe. Ta’eed also mentioned that “FlashDen” was filed as a trademark in Australia in January 2008 and entered on the Australian trademark register in August 2008. Envato is based in Melbourne, Australia.
I guess the main takeaway here is that if you are trying to help Adobe build its ecosystem of apps around Flash, don’t try to communicate that by including the word Flash in the name of your site.
Envato currently operates five “marketplaces” including ThemeForest, GraphicRiver, AudioJungle, VideoHive and now ActiveDen.
Dick move.
Indeed. Bullying someone who promotes your product and serves its community? Duumb dumb
good and smart move. they are awesome, btw.
Envato or Adobe? Envato is awesome.
As for Adobe…Just because you have the right to do something doesn’t mean you should take legal action.
Good PR moment for Collis & his crew…:)
Not so much for Adobe…;(
well, one can not selectively enforce copyrights. If you let one person (even a friend who benefits the company) use “flashyyyy” it sets a dangerous precedence. Adobe can not enforce future violations of flashxxx…..
Flash is a trademark, not a copyright.
and secondly they could easily draft a one-use agreement with Envato.
Bet Xerox doesn’t that way.
This is absolutely ridiculous… A community developed around a product to promote that product yet the product thinks it’s harmful to the product having a community promoting it? Makes no sense to me. It’s like mall-cops on a power trip thinking they are real cops.
you obviously dont know much about trademark dilution, idiot
Maybe not, but he does seem to know more about marketing and PR than you do. I’ll stop short of the name calling.
Adobe could have let this go rather than annoy their own community. They’ve opened a can of worms. Are they going to chase every useful flash domain, flashkit? Flashcomponents? They are obliged to… Even though these guys are around for 10+ years offering support for their product. Now that is idiotic.
In the meantime roll on native HTML video. Adobe are getting fat and lazy. I’m sorry they ever purchased macromedia. No competition whatsoever.
Have you ever gotten a BandAid? A Kleenex? Made a Xerox? Those are all familiar names and they are all TRADEMARKS. The law says you enforce it or you lose it.
Think it does not matter? Think about it the next time you go up an escalator. Escalator? Yep, that was a trademark (of the Westinghouse Elevator Company) until it was not enforced. And, thus, everyone gets to market competing escalators instead of having to say “moving stairs”. There is a real value here.
Now, it is true that you can license the use of a trademark. Many companies do this: think Intel Inside. But this sort of thing is always done with tight controls to ensure that the value of the brand is not destroyed. (Get the rule book to be a part of Intel Inside. It includes things like how big the logo needs to be relative to the TV screen if you will use it in an ad… and the precise Pantone colors to use, etc.) Adobe could set up such a program to encourage the community, but it’s up to them.
And, by the way, such “lawyer letters” are a common way to handle things without a big controversy and without the ugliness of going to Court. Stories like this that purport to blow the lid off this… to sensationalize an everyday occurrence in business… do a serious disservice to all parties involved.
Bad move by Adobe. The Envato network will one day rule the world. Props to Collis. The guy has class.
I’m pretty annoyed that companies like Apple, and Adobe are so vicious with it’s legal protection of their trademarks. Sad really.
Companies have to be somewhat vicious. If someone were to launch a product called Flash and blatantly violate the Adobe trademark, Adobe has to show the courts that it has been actively trying to protect its trademark in the past.
If you don’t protect your trademark when it’s in the gray area you could lose protection in areas where it should be clear cut.
Interesting observation.
Can that clear cut be the difference of a website dedicated to Adobe’s own product vs an unrelated product taking on the name?
The late FlashDen offered products built on top of Adobe’s Flash Platform, thus further promoting Adobe’s Flash and not replacing or diluting with some other product.
And there are dozens of popular websites that do the same. The day FlashKit is forced to change their name is the day Adobe estranges the rest of their own community.
The difference is “dedicated to” and “owned by”. I might be dedicated to my favorite starlet, but if I use a copyright image of her on my website, I can be sued.
Adobe must protect its trademark and copyright all the time everywhere or risk losing protection. That’s the way the law has worked for a century. Makers of products that leverage Adobe’s products… that is, that derive the benefit of the Adobe investment without paying for it… should be mature enough to recognize Adobe’s legal obligations here. True, Adobe also benefits from the community, but it’s up to Adobe to recognize that and make it possible to license the brand under reasonable terms. If they don’t and developers become “estranged,” it’s simply an indication of immaturity on all parts.
Perhaps the Clans up there in the Highlands of Scotland had better change their names from MAC-DONALDS ?
….next time am out in my Rain-mac in a park , am gonna go up to a young woman and – oh sh*t …guess I can no longer FLASH them, eh?
Very interesting article…thanks for Sharing
cliffsull ‘09
MacDonalds, a curry shop in India, was sued by McDonalds.
and McDonalds lost. MacDonalds stays.
Quite funny, I’m actually from the MacDonald clan ( my last name is Donaldson).
I think we should sue McDonald’s for stealing our name, actually
I thought Mac is Scottish while Mc is Irish. So, unless there is an Irish McDonald, how can Scottish MacDonald sue McDonalds?
Sometime watch Eddie Murphy in “Coming to America”. His (eventual) father-in-law has a fast food place… complete with tartan uniforms… called MacDonalds. And he’s embroiled in a trademark suit.
The spelling is not so consistent. There are Scottish McDonalds, even a Ronald McDonald:
http://www.mcsp...transcript.html
Yeah that is totally bullshit on adobe’s part, maybe they should have renamed it Silverlightden.
A small twist to this story is that Adobe is currently buying ad space on their nettuts.com website
http://www.scrn...eenshots/203865
Adobe also bought some ad space on http://www.stackoverflow.com/ last week.
That’s not Adobe… that’s a third party company buying media on Adobe’s behalf. They also bought banners on my network of sites too. They’re called G2 out of India.
It looks bad for Adobe; a company that seems more and more bloated, and less and less connected with its end users.
So, we now have to rename everything that contains Flash in it?
Very disappointed at Adobe!
how are you supposed to describe something as flash if you cant use the term Flash? Isn’t flash a development platform?
You can use Flash to describe it. Trademark infringement occurs when there exists a likelihood of consumer confusion around the origin of a product. Calling the site “FlashDen” may confuse consumers to believe that the site is associated with the producer of products under the Flash trademark, Adobe. Simply writing on the site “these are Adobe Flash files” does not create that same confusion.
I’m convinced this potential confusion had nothing to do with their move to action. The name helped establish the site as a resource for Flash content.
I wasn’t confused, were you confused?
It’s stupid for them to go after a company that provides resources for people that need to purchase Flash to edit the files that they get from there. It’s developer resources for a product they sale. They’re hurting their developers, which in turn, will end up hurting them in some minor way or another.
Very much a dick move. I expected better from Adobe.
Adobe is PMS’ing. The letter was completely unnecessary.
omg. finally. i was going to say the same thing. F U adobe. i mean what the hell? seriously? they are hawqking your stupid products. now we can’t use the term flash for fear of the big bad adobe getting it’s panties twisted? give me a break.
If this is truly such a problem to Adobe then explain to me why there are so many companies with the word “Flash” in their domain name operating for years without Adobe contacting them.
If adobe was serious about protecting their copyright on the word “Flash” they should approach literally hundreds of companies, so why just “Flashden” ?
What is so different about Flashden in comparison to other companies, and finally what does it matter to Adobe whether it’s called Flashden or not?
I think it’s simply a matter of Adobe protecting the name. Anyone in the field knows the difference between an Adobe site and a third party, but the average joe may stumble upon that site and confuse it for an Adobe site. In which case Adobe can’t control content for better or worse. Flashden may be great, but Flashforward may be awful.
Average joe will still confuse other sites for Adobe whether the domain contains Flash or not. We get that all the time.
Are you suggesting we stop using the word Flash altogether?
You should stop using the word Flash when it may create consumer confusion about the producer of a product, because that’s when trademark infringement occurs.
This is not hard to understand.
It sucks that its necessary, but the discussion is about trademark not about a specific companying protecting their trademark.
This kind of thing isn’t new and it’s not going to stop anytime soon. The arguments are endless, but since I’m no expert on trademark law I’m not going to start acting like one.
Oh and just as a fun fact, this isn’t even new for Adobe. If you look back a year or two there used to be a app directory called FreshAir. They went through the same thing.
themeforest is awesome.
Shame on you adobe.
This is unbelievable. FlashDen only helps to create a better ecosystem for Adobe Flash which in return helps Adobe to sell more licenses for Flash. I think this was a stupid move.
I wonder, will Adobe send a cease and desist letter to flashkit.com too ? Flashkit.com site has been around for about a decade now. Will they consistently send letters to other popular sites that uses flash in it’s name and support the flash community ?
I really wonder…
Why has this happened only to FlashDen marketplace? and why did not Adobe ask in the last 3 years ago?
Did Adobe also contact to other flash marketplaces or flash components sellers that use ‘flash’ name in their domains? Or Will Adobe contact them once they get very popular?
Very interesting!
Good point! I wonder if this is just another of FlashDen’s buzz-marketing techniques. Haven’t seen/ heard about other “flash” websites being contacted by Adobe to change their name. Makes you think. Eitherway, smart move from FlashDen.
Adobe sent a letter to Envato, not the other way around. And FlashDen is a recognized name, so whatever publicity they gain they’re losing a great asset.
So I’m assuming Adobe has contacted flashkit.com, flashearth.com, flasharcade.com, and the thousands of other sites with the word ‘flash’ in it?
adobe sucks ass
This happened back in 2006 to FlashObject which promptly renamed to SWFObject: http://blog.dec...come-swfobject/.
There was a bit of clamor at that point as well that Adobe was being a corporate machine out of touch with the community, but the same reasons were pointed out that Adobe has to protect its trademark or could lose it.
People got over it.
Adobe also issued a DMCA takedown against an open source project hosted on SourceForge for the most ridiculous of reasons:
http://linuxcen...-a-web-browser/
The same thing happened to me with a service called shAIR which helps developers to sell AIR applications – I wrote about it on my blog:
http://www.kelv...ya-and-sharify/
And it happened to other AIR related sites I mention in the post (freshairapps and airapps). As the article says, it seems crazy to me that Adobe challenge the very people who are trying to strengthen the ecosystem around their own apps…
FlashObject was a software product. FlashDen was a resource to an Adobe-community searching for Flash content.
I see a difference.
Hopefully activeden will get a load of traffic from the publicity and be better off in the future.
Where would flash be without the support of sites like flashden and flashkit? Google “flash” and there are a ton of websites with “flash” in their domain name. Is everyone of those sites going to get the same letter?
Adobe, suck it.
Collis is very savvy at online marketing. He’s clearly turned this to his networks advantage.
Those sons of bitches. Seriously? Will they start segregating on letters in domain names, just because they’re big and scary. Pick on someone your own size for once Adobe…
i used to love flash but now that its owned by adobe, and protected with a iron fist. screw it. theres always open source.
It depends on when Adobe became aware of the site. If they have known about it for 10 years, they can not go after them now.
Either you protect your rights (within a reasonable time) or it is lost forever!!
I understand but cmon Adobe… this is only a benefit, I mean they’re selling your products. It’s not like there pretending to be Adobe in any way.
In some ways this reminds me of when Starbucks lawyers contacted a small Tulsa based coffee shop about the phrase “doubleshot,” the entire name is DoubleShot coffee company.
Anyhow, they seemed to think this mislead people, cause confusion and so on. Why? The owner stood up, write back and they eventually backed off. Why would a huge entity like Starbucks will one cent about a small coffee shop, which roasts fresh coffee every week! Believe me, no one would ever mix up the DoubleShot Coffee company’s product with a canned product (that sucks) called doubleshot or something like that.
Surprise, Adobe is a company interested in making money and protecting their brand…
Wow… I understand that Adobe needs to protect their brand, but seems as though they are alienating people/devs/designers left and right. This same thing happened when the were awarded the rights to the word “Air”.
Did you know that the words “air” and “flash” did not exist before adobe trademarked them?
People build these communities around their technology, and they are not even supportive… every story i hear like this always ends with adobe taking actions that are counterproductive.
I hope they (adobe) take this as a big learning experience.
I previously didn’t want to invest time in learning Silverlight, but this makes me want to…
maybe adobe did this because they had recieved complaints about flashden. it certainly seams to have plenty of problems if you look through their own forums and some very dubious comments by even their own staff members slating other stock sites. if someone made a serious complaint about flashden to adobe with eveidence it might have pushed adobe to not want to be associated with flashden.
theres always at least 2 sides to an arguement.
I’d love to hear the other side. Adobe claims to have transparency, and this is obviously hurting them, so tell us all your side of the story.
Adobe need to be consistent and write to all Flash-based sites containing “Flash” in their name, they can’t just pick on one.
But the weird thing here for me is, why did they choose ActiveDen as the new name? That’s AWFUL! Says nothing about Flash. Why not InteractiveDen instead?
Adobe suck and I hope no-one upgrades to CS5.
If the reason is to protect the brand then Adobe would have to apply it to everybody….but they have not. Flashkit which is owned by WebMediaBrands Inc (NASDAQ: WEBM) has not been asked to change their name….inconsistency in application weakens your case in court as much as not safeguarding your interest. So why apply it sometimes and not others. Why FlashDen, why FlashObjetcs, why FreshAirApps etc and not others listed above. Adobe what is your problem? Or is it because you hope that if you go after some the rest will fall in line and you too can say “look, there is no blood on my hand”.
What about the song ‘Flash’ of Queen? Should they change the lyrics?
I have a domain name called flashXXXX.com – (I wont mention the name for obvious reasons) They have been sending me letters for 5 years to change our domain and stop using the name ….. we havent changed and have no plans to change. We have owned the domain since the late 90’s.
I think Adobe is just punking you guys. They asked, and you caved in. You could have kept your name.
WTF is Adobe going to do to you? You are in Austrailia ffs….
I’ve been told by someone from adobe that they “have to legally protect the trademark”. whatever that means.
yeah and i’m sure the same person shits from that mouth. what a bunch of stupid crap. ugh.
The bigtime Flash website developers who hangout on the Ultrashock.com forum…hate Flash component makers.
Companies like Envato and Flash component maker Flashloaded.com help lesser Flash people compete with the big Flash developers.
2advanced thinks they own Ultrashock…so that may be the type of folks who got Adobe to pull this stunt.
It’s politically motivated I’m sure, but that scenario seems pretty far-fetched.
Yea, but all they do is have attorneys send out threatening letters…have you heard of them actually do anything legally to force a company change their name or their domains name?
Flash Den levels the playing field….these so called “bigtime” flash developers are punks.
Business is business, and this is 2009, not 2001….they need to deal with it and move on. Component companies will always exist, whether its Flash Den for Flash or Infragistics for .net controls.
The purpose is to serve the client, while making a profit. If the elite want to spend a week building an app they could buy on Flash den, then let the fools do that. On saturday night, when I am out kicking it with friends and having fun, they can sit at home codeing for all I care.
Back to the topic at hand: If you want to fight a giant like Adobe, be prepared to lose. But my point is that I havent heard of them taking anyone to court other than Macromedia. Have you heard of them taking anyone to court over the use of their trademarked name “flash…”?
I wonder if http://theflashblog.com/ will have to change name based on the same trademark infringement?
Will be interesting to see.
So whats that thing that emits light That sits on top of a camera called then ?
Why does everyone swallow this protecting trademark nonsense? If that was the case they would have first targeted all of the sites above Flashden in google for the “Flash”. And What about all the other stock flash sites – buy stock flash, flash components etc.. they have chosen Flashden because its the largest competitor to their own flash stock site.
exactly the same thing happened with the air marketplaces:
http://www.kelv...ya-and-sharify/
OMG! Adobe are going crazy! I hope I’m not on their fireline!
Better Daniel, Will TC audience ever get to know what your previous App of the Day post was about?
DC comics used the name Flash much before Adobe. lol
I hope you all have great success with your companies, so you will understand why you must enforce your trademarks.
Both companies are great, there are no bad guys.
But, Envato does come out looking like the big man, go Envato!
I’ve been running my personal blog at http://www.flashcomguru.com (Adobe and Flash focused) for many years and do not expect a letter from Adobe’s lawyers anytime soon. I have a healthy relationship with Adobe.
Why they treat some companies one way and other companies another is a mystery to me though.
BTW I doubt they will take theflashblog.com down – it’s run my one of their own evangelists…
Oh I know http://www.theflashblog.com/ won’t be taken down because of course Lee is running it but surely from the perspective of the community it doesn’t make much sense to take certain sites down but not all of them?
Nice one Adobe, thats sure going to help you promote Flash! Talk about a PR blunder!
Allowing such a great company like envato to use the term Flash can only increase Flashes popularity.
Dumb dumb move.
Wow, I understand protecting your name, but a simple disclosure at the top of the page. THIS IS NOT RELATED TO ADOBE seems like a better idea. I have several url’s that at this point I should probably let go. Including http://www.adobeappstore.com, I was surprised that one was available just months ago, especially with their new offerings.
Hmmmm.
what about Flash Gordon ?! Is he supposed to change his name too ?