Hewlett Packard refreshed their TouchSmart line of computers today. If you’re not familiar with these, imagine an iMac all in one computer that has a touch screen, and you’re most of the way there.
I really like the TouchSmart line, and use a second generation machine as my main Windows test computer. The touch interface is done via infrared, which is a very cost effective way of creating a touch interface on a large screen. Microsoft, in fact, uses it in their experimental TouchWall product that can make a touch screen of virtually any size wall (more TouchWall footage).
Overall I give the TouchSmart top marks – the only drawback is that it is inexplicably heavy at something like 60 lbs., and no one seems to know why. But since it sits on your desk, it’s not like you’re lifting it very often, so it doesn’t really matter.
But the machine is still all wrong. Anyone who has used one for a long time will tell you that they quickly revert to using the keyboard and mouse. And it isn’t because of the software or touch technology – both are fine.
The problem is that you get tired keeping your hands up and on the screen for a long period of time. Touch experts I’ve spoken with say it’s because your hands are above your heart, which isn’t comfortable for very long.
You don’t get this problem with Microsoft’s Surface computer, which is a low table in front of you. And the TouchSmart layout tends to work well in the kitchen, where you’re standing at a counter with the computer at a lower level.
But for the desktop, it just doesn’t work.
So what does the future of desktop touch computing look like?
Most experts I’ve spoken with agree that the problem was actually solved centuries ago. The proper layout for a desktop touch screen machine is the architect’s desk – a slightly inclined desktop that is a touch screen for your computer. With the advances in touch technology most users won’t need any peripheral input device (keyboard, mouse, etc.) to be productive on inclined desktop touch screen machine. The desk should also be somewhat shorter than a normal desk – the bottom of the screen should basically be on your lap, and you would be mostly looking down on the machine.
If I were HP, I’d design a version of the TouchSmart that inclined way down to a 25 degree or so angle. My guess is people would love it. Until, of course, they realized the viewing angle for the LCD screen was so poor that the screen was unreadable. But that too can be fixed.
Or they could innovate with something cool like http://10gui.com/
yep. that’s pretty darn cool. I keep wishing i had even just my macbook trackpad instead of a mouse for the desktop, so much more efficient. a larger pad that mirrored the screen would be really, really good.
Want a desktop trackpad? You keep mentioning that, but even this page is running ads for the Watcom Bamboo multitouch touchpad for desktops. Works great.
Wow. That looks great.
I bought a Wacom Bamboo touchpad and returned it after about a week. I’ve used other Wacom tablets for more than 10 years, so I’m comfortable switching between stylus, mouse, and trackpad, and thought multitouch would be a great addition to my arsenal. I found it to be twitchy — lots of accidental clicks and unwanted actions. I had to hold my fingers in an awkward position to avoid undesired right and double-clicks.
Michael just get HippoRemote for your idle iPhone. Basically you get a trackpad that works over wifi. And you can script it with macros…
Yeah. I found myself forgetting to plug my mouse into my MacBook Pro after a while.
I almost use the multitouch exclusively now, it’s just so efficient. Would love something that could replace the mouse on the desktop.
On a not-so-but-kinda-related-topic: what’s up with the crunchpad these days?
It’s cute when MA pretends to be a hardware guy, cutePad Consulting.
CrunchPad is not mentioned in the post! Point here is not about touch, but about ui and others things.
Touch icons(menu etc) should be near bottom of screen so that we need not move our hand too often too far. And touchscreen should understand that we are just resting our fingers on screen – like we rest on keyboard, when not touching for action. Accidental touch should be taken care. And additional intuitive touch guestures.
To tell in short, only Apple can do it, and others can copy.
Really cool …looking fwd to get one
The 10/GUI concept is good (based on watching the video presentation)…
Wonder how it can/will be implemented…
Agreed, I got a touchscreen to play with on my setup (3 screens just didn’t seem like enough) and having it at 30 degree tilt seems to work the best.
I have a touchsmart for more than 10 months but i used the touch screen maybe 5-6 times, thats it…
me too. and then i wondered why, and started asking experts. but it’s also just sort of obvious – you get tired using it.
I think this is why “voice apps” will never quite catch on the way people have thought. “Just talk to your computer!”. That’ll get tiring, and annoy the heck out of everyone around you, not to mention extra privacy considerations voice raises.
Seems like you guys are writing about interaction and industrial design issues more and more. I applaud your efforts, but suggest you run these stories by an interaction designer before posting them.
You missed two important points that even an entry-level Interaction Designer would have likely picked up on.
1. While an architect’s desk might solve the problem of having to hold your arms in the air, it doesn’t address the fact that your hands and arms would be constantly covering up important bits of the screen.
2. The architect’s desk also doesn’t solve the problem of the strain created by looking down all day long (or for however long you’re using the thing – for me, it’d be all day).
The people at 10/GUI have come up with an interesting solution that addresses both of these problems. It’s described in this short video: http://10gui.com/video/
(I am not affiliated with 10/GUI. I just think they’re on to something.)
i think they’re onto something, too. see first comment on this post above.
regarding “You missed two important points that even an entry-level Interaction Designer would have likely picked up on” – you’d think HP would have one or two of those hanging around the office, huh?
Agreed. Looks like HP went for sex over substance with this one.
I work for a company that develops touch screen kiosks, and they are meant to be used for 10-15 minutes max. Most people use them from a standing position, but even so, there’s no place to rest your arms while using it.
The other problem I see with Surface or other large touch platform is that you still need to move your arms to use it. While typing or mousing, I can rest my arms and adjust my chair so that I can keep the rest of my body in one comfortable position. And will touch be the end of double-click and right-click?
I also don’t see how it will be possible to have the input surface and the viewing surface in the same plane and still be productive, just due to simple ergonomics and physics. The best angle for viewing is not the best angle for touch.
Haha. The guys at 10/GUI need to get a point across in less than 8.5 minutes. Jesus 3:30 in and they unveil their idea… not to mention the Wii sleep music. Gah! Not trolling here, just saying.
—
This calls for a Cylon Raider style control … fly the ship (computer) with cybernetics and use the heads up control (monitor) to use your brain. I guess this is sort of the 10/GUI idea.
When I first saw the HP in BestBuy a few years ago I had the same immediate conclusion — nice idea but FAIL implementation. Your experience with it proves my instincts.
The Surface == gadget and short attention promo device.
So it’s all about form factor w/re to the interaction with multi-touch. I’m going to try a Bamboo … I miss using multitouch while my laptop is on a stand and connected to other monitor.
Haven’t seen any real multi-touch applications yet, all seems to be gimmicky apps.
i thought the problem is how gui could gain more in usability. i did experiment of myself own made gui here http://www.yout...h?v=Rdq5XLHqeDU and here http://www.yout...h?v=SI7UfhvFRaY
Could it be that TechCrunch was denied a sneak peek at Apple’s new product lines while M$ opened their gates for TechCrunch to come and see some thrown away prototypes that will never ship…
I was an active member of NUI group, the homebrew multitouch club, one summer.
I always thought if you used a drafting table as the base for a touchscreen, you ought to hang an angled mirror above it at eyelevel, so you could have direct manipulation without killing your posture.
Have you ever tried one of these http://www.waco...cintiq-21ux.php ?
I’ve been curious for a long time but never gotten around to try them seriously. I know it’s not touch (I’d use it for my personal artwork) but if follows the concept of the digital architect’s ‘desk’.
I use one pretty much constantly.
It has a kickstand in it that when “down” on a flat surface has the screen angled at about the same angle as an architect’s desk.
In my opinion the kickstand isn’t a good-enough solution; if you use it seriously you wind up wanting it in your lap (awkward) or laying flat on a proper architect’s desk.
Basically it’s not strong enough for your elbows or to lean into on its own, and now having a desk at the same angle makes it awkward if you put weight on the desk.
I still recommend it for artwork — it’s amazingly more productive once you get the hang of using it.
The only real drawback is more software-related; it can be a little awkward using the pen to select smaller icons or menu options.
Hopefully as touch becomes more widespread more apps will come with a “touch mode” with bigger icons and menu items.
Welcome to the Microsoft side. We have been awaiting our arrival Michael.
Agreed .. not to mention all those smudge marks either. But the new laptops who’s screens twist and fold down are nifty, so you don’t have the problem of holding your arms up.
Cheers,
..BB
Hi there, it is an interesting discussion, but I think that there are some important poitns to consider: What is the task at hand and how does the interaction at the pragmatic level (e.g., touch, multi touch, keyboard, mousepad…) suit the accomplishement of task?
When I am in lay back mood and just want to share some photos with some friends, or play a game, or select a tune from a songs list, “touch” is probably enhancing my interaction and just makes more fun. When I am working at tasks thatr require more accuracy and indirect interaction for a longer period (e.g., when I need text entry) a mouse pad and a physical keyboard might be more suitable.
What I am triyng to say here is that we should not talk about touch in a general manner, but ratehr consider the context (user, social, task…) in which we use it, and what kind of experience we are trying to support. And since computing is not supprting productivity and work only any longer, we have to consider the diversity of contexts in which itneraction techniques might or might not be suitable.
Anyway, interesting discussion, would be nice to read more in this direction
The problems mentioned in the 10gui video is so true. But an ideal solution has yet to evolve.
The coolest thing were these touchscreen laptops from NTT Docomo with Picsel browsers!
Now that was kewl, I wish my Macbook had that!
Interesting. The top of my notebook screen is at about the same height of my hearth so I shouldn’t have any problem if I had a touch screen on it. However turning my screen at 25 or so degrees makes it look tiny and far away (it’s a 15″). I usually position it at about 60 degrees.
The biggest problem with the TouchSmart is what I refer to as “phantom cursor.” I first noticed this one night when the light was out—the machine started up and the cursor started moving across the screen, seemingly by itself. FREAKED me out. This happened a few nights later. Needless to say, I had to get out of bed and investigate.
The cause: a fly had landed on the screen, which is so sensitive, it thought the fly was a finger and traced its movements.
The HO TouchSmart: So sensitive, a fly can use it.
The biggest problem with the TouchSmart is what I refer to as “phantom cursor.” I first noticed this one night when the light was out—the machine started up and the cursor started moving across the screen, seemingly by itself. FREAKED me out. This happened a few nights later. Needless to say, I had to get out of bed and investigate.
The cause: a fly had landed on the screen, which is so sensitive, it thought the fly was a finger and traced its movements.
The HP TouchSmart: So sensitive, a fly can use it.
Yeah, kinda makes me want something like a holographic screen floating in mid air a la anime style, or something. Better yet, I’ll invent rubber tips for your fingers. I shall call it the iPoke, because we need more products with the rarely used “i” prefix damn it!
I would think the 60 lbs is so you don’t tip it over when you’re touching the screen. That wouldn’t work very well either!
the cool thing about the way the touchsmart works with infrared is that you can “touch” the screen without actually making physical contact with it. hours of fun.
For the record, the HP Touchsmart offers “An adjustable screen with 40-degree tilt” and the architect desk you’re showing can angle up to “50 degrees from horizontal,” so at the maximum tilt/lift on both, their angles match up.
How about this?
http://sims.sb2...n_bridge_04.jpg
Wesley seemed to be pretty comfortable using it.
I don’t think that the TouchSmart is really designed to replace the computer you’d use on a daily basis to search the web or do other more input-intensive tasks. It really shines though as a family computer for young kids.
you’re just reading the press release. once you have one, you’ll see.
HP 150 I think it was called. Back in the 80’s was a touch screen PC. It advertised a spreadsheet and looked, in the ad copy, wonderful. I never got to see one live but I’m sure that green DOS touchscreen I saw in the ad was a real gem.
My wireless mouse ran out of juice this morning and no batteries to be found. So I switched to plan B and let my fingers do the clicking. Good backup but I agree it gets a bit tiring after a while, And clicking on small icons is really hard.
I think we’re overlooking the obvious by assuming there can only be one screen. What if there was a flat/slightly-reclined touchscreen where your keyboard is now, and another display (showing exactly the same thing) where your monitor is now?
I had a cool lcd touch screen back in 99 and I thought it was really good for surfing. When surfing you click once in a while, read and scroll a little. It was a really good alternative to the mouse and a very healthy break from the mouse. It good to have alternatives than just one way of input.
Or better yet, they can go the Apple way by either building a multi-touch track pad, like those in the MacBooks, or a multi-touch mouse as they will soon release with the upcoming iMacs.
Compare Touchsmart with infrared to multitouch with a haptic interface? The architect’s table allows direct manipulation, apply pressure with a pen or pencil on paper, adjust the pressure to make lines thick or thin, get feedback from the paper. Multitouch as in Surface is all about moving stuff around on the screen visually and ignores the real deep tactile work that is possible on an architect’s pad. Even Wacom can’t emulate it. Also, light pens were invented before the mouse. I once mounted a TV horizontally to use a light pen as described here, but the CRT overheated and burned out.
Hmph. Meet the real world:
Touch Will Change Everything
http://ebooktes...nge-everything/
At Cozi, we believe it’s all about context. When you are sitting at a desk (i.e. your in the typical PC usage context) the optimal experience, by far, is a keyboard and a mouse. No hardware or software is going to change that. Voice, touch, gesture…none of it can beat the tried and true keyboard and mouse in that context.
Clearly, the mobile context calls for a different experience. When your out and about, the last 2 years have told us that touch works super well.
Now, let’s talk about yet another context: the kitchen. At Cozi, we talk about the “walk up” or the “walk by” context. We also talk about a context where you have way less “mental capacity” to apply to the problem. In that context, touch, if combined with exactly the right software experience, would add value.
But when it comes to typing, you’ll always go back to the keyboard, no matter what the context…
I guess i am the only one old enough to remember the HP120 which was a touchscreen dos pc.
It also had IR sensors (20 yrs ago, so much for innovation).
It died then for the same reasons you mention, arm fatigue and smears.
I guess that companies that dont remember their failures are doomed to repeat them?
Jeff
That is one of Hp nice touch product to bad its a pity that they do not live up to standard there are much complains about the touch capability as well operating behind the pc.
HP should work on improving their software to speed up the touch a little as for improving the touch experience.
I’m using a tx-series 12 inch laptop to the fullest and like it very much the touchscreen helps navigating faster the mouse feature is a small addition to me. The tx notebooks stand works well plug in an external keyboard booya there we go.
@arrington – have a touchsmart. the thing works well but there is not enough software yet to make it rlly useable. Perhaps win7??…
HP gets this…kinda…they include a wireless keyboard and mouse. (i bought the thing for demo purposes) I use the touch feature almost everyday for tiny things, convenient but not at all necessary. overall not worth the cost for avg consumer.
even a laptop gives me serious neck and back ache,,, got get the screen at eye level.. i can hear health and safety types screaming
Some notes:
1) The Touchsmart uses just a couple of cameras, in the first model they were at the upper left and right. The cameras watch the plane of the screen.
Unlike resistive or capacitive, this method scales to almost any size and doesn’t block the display with tiny embedded wires or plastic.
2) Microsoft just applied for a patent which watches where you place your hands, and the keyboard / controls move there. This also makes touch typing easier to do on a flat surface.
3) In Minority Report, Tom Cruise reportedly had to stop filming every few minutes in the hand motion scenes, because it was so painful to repeat those motions with his hands held up.
4) Touch is not the answer for everything. And even when it works, it’s often best just for casual users. Power users can scroll much faster holding down scroll buttons, for example.
My second monitor is multi-touch and it works for me. But I’ve found that it needs to be on an angle (but not to great otherwise it’s unreadable) and as close to the edge of the desk as possible, with my chair up high.
Then it rocks for browsing, reading and consuming media in general, the only downside is the lack of touch optimised apps, including windows itself. Although the technical support for touch in windows 7 is great, navigation is pretty poor, as it’s still optimised for the mouse. My own tweaks have included increasing the size of scrollbars and menus to make them more touch friendly.
Allows faster and much easier no help.
not great for humans… but excellent for robots.