I mean, seriously.
Apple’s chief complaint against the Google Voice application was “The application has not been approved because, as submitted for review, it appears to alter the iPhone’s distinctive user experience by replacing the iPhone’s core mobile telephone functionality and Apple user interface with its own user interface for telephone calls…”
And that’s ok, because we all know that the real reason Apple won’t let Google Voice through is that they are scared out of their mind that Android and Google Voice will eat their iPhone lunch over the long term. Apple can’t win the fight over the long term, but they sure are willing to say and do anything in the short term to stop the advance of Google.
But you’d think they’d at least be consistent and apply the same arguments to other third party apps. At least until this whole FCC thing blows over.
But Skype’s calling app, which uses Wifi, is totally fine. And yesterday, the Vonage iPhone app, which seems to be just as much of an issue as Google Voice based on that quote at the top, got the green light, too.
Users can use Wifi or cellular minutes, and have to open the Vonage application to make calls. They’ll save a bundle on international calling.
Of course, it’s hard to argue that Vonage doesn’t “alter the iPhone’s distinctive user experience by replacing the iPhone’s core mobile telephone functionality and Apple user interface with its own user interface for telephone calls.”
But really, I’m not even sure anyone is paying attention at this point. If you care, the truth is this – Apple isn’t threatened by Vonage. The smart thing would have been to reject their app anyway, to stay consistent. But unless someone actually forces Apple to play by the rules, why should they?
Yeah, I know. Apple Fanboys can unleash hell on us now in the comments.
OMFG IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE IPHONE USE SOMETHING ELSE NO ONE IS FORCING YOU.
sorry, just wanted to get that out of the way so we could move on.
haha I’m glad I at least got a good laugh out of this. Thanks Mike.
Anybody will react the same way as apple, when you attack their bottom line, i need not tell techcrunch’s.
I am fed up with “justifications” by google. They invented new kind of logic which nobody can understand.
so did you, you’re using it right now.
+1 to zman…
+1 haha. I just peed myself
If i attack on TC’s bottomline, my comment will be eaten up by mods
I would like to add my +1 to zman’s pile. Hilarious.
I don’t really care about apple, but them are justified here. The bigger question is, why is arrington crying like such a pussy? This must have worked on his parents. Spoiled brat.
+1 haha
This is the reason why I am addicted to TechCrunch. Michael Arrington speaks the truth like it is!
Just the side note though, as a long time TC reader, I am so fed up with Twitter shit. Tell your writers to stop pumping Twitter.
Apple and iPhone are TC’s favorites too.
Apple makes money. Apple sells iPhones and Macs to high end clients. (Although recent tactics against Google Voice makes me want to avoid anything Apple for a while)
Twitter doesn’t make money. Twitter sells nothing. Twitter gets hundreds of million of dollars of funding, and only to see them arbitrarily project a bazillion dollars in their leaked “revenue projections”
“This is the reason why I am addicted to TechCrunch. Michael Arrington speaks the truth like it is!”
Agreed. Although he can be a bit brash at times, his directness in what he thinks and feels is a bit refreshing from the template BS that you see at other sites.
+1 on the Twitter comment.
Ditto!!! +100
This is my rant for the day. Dont read this if you dont want to hear me bitch and moan.
Sorry Im a 37 yr old -schooler Bay Area developer that has literally had 16 S-Corps (and own preferred stock in a couple of dozen more) and finally Im having some real success and started out in 1994
I worked really hard to make success and I’m jaded and sick and tired of twitter writeups!!
Im really happy to read about peoples success like the Pandora crew and even to some extent Facebook but no more twitter!!!!
Okay thanks got that off my chest and didn’t need to see a shrink
BTW- I really like my iPhone but I very much dislike Apple and their lame closed business model. As a iPhone user I really wish I could just drag and drop movies and mp3’s into the iPhone directory instead of having to use iTunes. Other closed features that need opening is the ability to use other media codecs like mp3 and avi. We always complain about the APP Store but how about some more basic features like codec options
Maybe I’m missing something… why should a technology blog with a strong focus on digital communications stop covering one of the most game-changing digital communications platforms to be created in years?
Sorry that you are so crotchety about Twitter and that your startups haven’t garnered the same immediate attention – but I’m afraid that’s because they simply weren’t as popular.
How about you stop with the QQ and actually buy a phone that does what you want it to, instead of buying one that doesn’t and then lamenting how it does exactly what (limited) things it is supposed to do?
No..no he doesn’t. He says whatever suits his personal interests. Skype and Vonage do not take over the iPhone calling experience and interface like Google Voice does. Which is what Apple has said repeatedly.
Now that is some truth. Plus, he whines like a little girl when he can’t have his way.
“I want to control the app store! Now! Mommy!”
Well, just because Apple says it doesn’t make it true. In fact, Skype and Vonage are VoIP apps and GV isn’t and doesn’t “take over” anything. (You forgot to mention that Apple also claimed that the same old touchscreen phone dialer was their significant invention. Apple tends to do that.)
Oh, and if you heard that story about how Skype’s block on Android, and that makes Google hypocrites, that’s crap, too. The limited Skype software in both app stores works pretty much the same way.
But Twitter is kewl…
+2
+3
The “+1 haha” replies are played. Let’s move along.
There’s larger issues going on here. Apple revived itself by adopting community software and now it is ignoring the whole idea of how online communities work and is dictating how they should work – very Rupert Murdock. They’ve basically reverted back to the Mass Media business model which is a bad idea because it will really hurt their brand and a lot of developers will leave because they are lying.
My iPhone recently got stolen & I’ve decided not to replace it because I want to use a device that is more open. Waiting for the next run of Android devices.
brynn
Apple doesn’t rule the world. So why are we stuck on the mistakes they make? The only thing that should reflect a company is their product. If you dislike the product then don’t use it. I really don’t see the bigger issue here. I don’t use an iPhone. I use a Nokia. So buy what suits you. If LG lied something about their Prada phone is it gonna be the hottest news? The iPhone is just a phone, not the Holy Grail.
The problem is that their bad practices are growing in size due to their increasing market share. What if apple takes over the majority of phones in the future and is then able to dictate what everyone uses.
Also, a company’s business practices and philosophy matter very much. What Apple does to violate user rights and anti-monopoly laws is comparable to Nike sweat shops. With your logic, you would be okay with a product made from baby giraffe tears….the ends do not justify the means
And whats so wrong with baby giraffe tears?
Wow,
It always amazes me how “passionate” you Apple people are. The point in reviewing a product is to inform open minded people. I’m glad you love your i-trend. The rest of us are more concerned about function. I’ll stick with my blackberry and leave the rest of you to ponder what next trendy app will get you laid.
As far as ruling the world comment, yeah…us MS users and engineers really feel bad for you.
my iphone’s contributed to getting me laid probably at least 15 times in the last year or more. well, it was a conversation starter, I still had to close the deal with the usual chatter, moves, etc.
forgot to say…installing all these playful little “magic trick” apps really help. lots of chicks are attracted and want to play with the iphone, then you show them fun little party apps to get them giggling..
Well, Apple does pump advertising money into fox news, so the Murdoch analogy might be more spot on than you think.
Anyone catch the ‘boycott fox news’ campaign? It was hilarious until the Mac users found out Apple was on the list. So much backpedaling and excuses and about-faces, amazing!
It must be nice to have the ability to hold two completely contrary ideals and never notice them clashing. Like protesting the AT&T surveillance station, and then buying an iphone the day that retroactive immunity was granted. lulz!
At some point as the technology matures in the marketplace, old business models will begin to take hold more and more. Apple is just trying to precipitate the process to make an easy buck, but- and it’s a big but- technology and marketplace are not there yet.
There are too many changes still taking place, and too many new competitors emerging. But, hey, how is this new? I mean, Apple has always been trying to apply 1800’s business models to their technology (read monopoly).
Fortunately, IBM based their PC on an open system, and now fortunately Google has come around. Truth is – monopolies are low hanging fruit…
Haha …That is very funny….but unfortunately it’s true however on the plus side that’s what the greatest capitalist economy in the world was/is built on.
I’d say it’s difficult in this instance to move on because it’s too powerful an argument to be undermined by the “Apple are not playing fair” brigade
+5 Yes, that is the right way to move on!
+infinity
Does anyone remember when Apple used to be cool?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
Anyone?
They are still cool which everyone but you seem to realize. Look at their financials. look at their prospects for the future. look at how they are selling everything they make. Don’t be so stupid.
You’re confusing ‘cool’ with ‘rich’.
Apple are boring and have been for some time now. As for ’selling everything they make’, yup, those Shuffles and Apple TVs are just flying out the door.
When a company gets the number one spot in the ‘Cool Brands’ survey that’s the point where you know they’ve jumped the shark because mass market just isn’t cool anymore.
Well if Apple didn’t have it’s iPod and iPhone line, it wouldn’t even be very popular, as it’s Macbooks still cannot beat Windows
How can you tell iPods are significant? Several ways:1) Whenever there’s a addon for a MP3 player (earphones, etc), it usually says compatible with IPOD and mp3 player. iPods are in a category all by there own. 2) When Apple released their iPhone, Google scrambled to create a similar touchscreen smart phone filled with eye candy, and released the Android, partnered with T-Mobile, to contest AT&T. Later, so did Blackberry (Storm), and now LG is coming out with it. iPhones almost created the touch screen smart phone idea, save some earlier models of Windows mobile phones.
So what do you say is “cool”?
In fact, if they *weren’t* so damn cool otherwise, nobody would care about the whole Google Voice thing. It’s because people are surprised at how they are acting that this is such big news.
You misunderstand. Nobody really cares about Google Voice outside the tech blogging community.
Apple aren’t cool because they’ve become a faceless multinational corporation that release minor variations on the same bloody theme every year. Their last bit of innovation was the iPhone and that was over two years ago.
Yeah, I remember that. The reign of the Apple II in my heart lasted from Star Wars IV to Star Wars VI or thereabouts. And then they repackaged Doug Englebart’s and Xerox’s inventions and claimed them as their own and they started being a lot less cool to me.
… but no-one got laid with an android phone!
My girlfriend started to purr and kissed my neck when I told her I’d buy her a Hero for her birthday…
Yes Arrington at times is a bit vulgar but he knows what’s up.
Apple should just go and fuc% itself… they’re doomed anyway.. the only model that works in the 21st century is innovation and openness…
Microsoft has tried the other one.. and look where they are now….
Apple is the new Microsoft
I wouldn’t count Micro$oft out just yet. Windows 7 is looking to be the gargantuan wave of upgrade dollars that they foolishly hoped Vista would be.
Innovation and openness aren’t necessarily a good combination to make it rich. In fact someone could point to me what company has become rich by using both of those for all of their products. It might be that you are suggesting, as so many open sourcers do, that people shouldn’t make it rich and that everyone should have the same. That would be communism, or at least socialism.
This is about people’s right to use something else, if you actually read the article. Apple is trying to restrict freedom of choice, as offered by Google.
Yes, exactly. People have the right to use something else.
Don’t like how Apple treats their users? Don’t be one.
Advocating using the force of government to beat a company into offering a service it doesn’t want to is disgusting.
“you dont have to use the iphone” , nor did you have to use Windows, but current monopoly laws state that when you have a majority of market share, the rules change, no one is forcing us to use cellular service, but the carriers are being looked at for price fixing. Apple is acting like Microsloth in the 90s, no one was forcing you to use windows or IE, but that didnt stop the DOJ from coming in. And thank God, imagine how much further we would be if companies had to compete on a FAIR level playing field.
And thank you Mike, if I were a woman I would have your babies.
since you are a man will you settle for his little swimmers?
If you need to respond to every single criticism of Apple, ever, like a wailing Savonarola leading a torch-wielding mob, there’s an app for that!
Wow,
“If you need to respond to every single criticism of Apple, ever, like a wailing Savonarola leading a torch-wielding mob, there’s an app for that!”
Yeah mine. Enjoy Charles Kingsley’s ‘Hypatia’ along with about a million other books on the RetroReader.
http://www.retroreader.net
Savonarola … wow … such a sharp crowd on this forum.
Mitch
first lol
oh damn it you beat me Arrington
Yea, somebody need to make a big deal out of this to put pressure on the FCC. Someone needs to make this a PR issue for apple or else the investigation will just fade into the PR background with some sort of lame ruling like “does not necessarily directly violate fair trade…” bull crap.
totally. someone should do exactly that.
Mike, subtlety and sarcasm are lost on the unobservant.
But we bystanders often get a big kick out of it …
Ah the beauty of the net.
Why is not Google complaining about Vonage?
Why should they?
Give them time. Anti-trust is a marathon, not a sprint.
Hahaha, great line.
Anti-Trust is on the Verizon, not on Sprint? (OK, actually AT&T, but I can’t find a good pun, so I’m using a bad one.)
AntiTrust is a figment of your imagination …
Can we say Wal-Mart?
Google has their own issues with restricting competitors which you will never read about on tech crunch.
you mean like this? http://www.tech...-search-market/
hahhaha. Owned
Um, somebody just did. To 3602K readers.
At least say something useful.
Good article. Apple as horrid as ever.
There’s a big difference between Google’s Voice app compared to Vonage’s app. With Google Voice the user has to use the GV application every time they use the phone to make every single call from the iPhone – hence the ‘duplicating functionality’ claim.
With Vonage users would only use the app to make international calls. The Vonage app does not link to your account so you can not change the ANI of your phone like the Google Voice app did, and you can not make domestic calls through the Vonage app- it simply dials it through the regular cellular network.
This means that users would only use the Vonage app to make international calls which would not be every time the iPhone is used to make a phone call – unlike the Google Voice app where you would never use the iPhone’s built in phone app again.
Incorrect. The Google Voice app is used to making outgoing calls via your Google Voice number. It in no way forced people to not use the standard iPhone dialer. You have confused how the Google Voice on Android app works with the iPhone app.
You, Vinod1978, are exactly what Apple is hoping anyone who reads their statement to the FCC will be.
Go look up Google Voice. Read how it works. Then come back and read Arrington’s blog post again, and try to make a less foolish statement.
“With Google Voice the user has to use the GV application every time they use the phone to make every single call from the iPhone” – that is not correct.
As I understand the GV app, it does use a separate dialer and address book. The second address file could easily cause confusion for non-techie people.
Actually, I was able to download Sean Kovacs GV Mobile Free a while back before it was pulled abruptly from the App Store. To make a call, you had to launch the app and use it’s own dialer to make a phone call. Is this how Google’s would have worked? Is this what they consider duplicating? Honestly, I’m confused. What if you launched the app and it took you to Apple’s own phone dialer, that would be okay?
Then non-techie people shouldn’t use it.
If the iPhone GV app works anything like the droid GV app non-techie people will have no trouble with it.
My very, very non-techie girlfriend (I love her but our Wii is about the most complicated gadget she can handle) took all of two minutes to understand and use Google Voice.
It is Google. It is easy. It just WORKS!
@Vinod1978
The big difference between your opinion and Mike’s is that is is actually informed by the facts.
You ARE being sarcastic right? You could not possibly be that uninformed..could you?
@Darwin Are you being paid to keep on apologizing for Apple or are you so indoctrinated in the cult-of-Apple that you do it gratis?
Apple decides which app can be used on the iPhone and they are free to do so.
That’s why many people use Cydia (or Icy) to get the apps that doesn’t make it through Apple’s (for some unfair screening process)
Apple are only protecting their business. Everyone does that. Would Google let Bing use their API for some fancy service?
Google Voice is threatening AT&T’s business. Not Apple’s.
Just an FYI/FYA. That sort of thing.
Apple derive revenue from AT&T’s business.
Just an FYI/FYA. That sort of thing.
Actually Google Voice does NOT threaten AT&T’s business. When you “dial” via Google Voice, you end up placing a call to yourself that is then completed to the party you’re calling, using AT&T cell minutes. Unlike Vonage which does NOT use AT&T minutes. It’s nuts – AT&T should want Google and NOT want Vonage. I don’t see how anything threatens Apple though, as long as people are buying their products.
GV with push could wipe out AT&T SMS revenue
There are a few carriers I know of that did NOT want ‘wifi’ built on BlackBerry devices (that is why RIM has several similar devices – some with wifi on and some with wifi off). ‘wifi’ competes against wireless data usage, which means less revenue for carriers. There is one large carrier in China which will refuse to sell phones with wifi chipset – they just DON’T want it.
The same can be said of GV, which would result in less revenue for carriers.
If Apple is trying to get more carriers across the world, you won’t get it with GV in your pocket.
So it IS in Apple’s best interest to ensure GV stays OUT.
Kashif
Imagine that Apple is trying to get more carriers
We all know that carriers have historically been robbing us blind for SMS that doesn’t cost them much. The push to all-in-one plans make that less of an issue at this point, however.
Tell me why it’s OK for Apple to lock out a competing software from iPhone OS but it’s illegal for Microsoft to lock out competing web browsers or media players? Apple is Microsoft a few years ago. I’m using a jb’n iPwn, so you know I’m not completely biased.
…except Apple really aren’t Microsoft from a few years ago, because they’re not in a market-controlling monopolistic position.
Is their behaviour appalling? Sure, in fact it angers me just as much as Microsoft’s. But comparing the two doesn’t make any sense when you bring market share into the equation.
You don’t even need marketshare to void this argument.
For starters, MS never locked anything out. If you wanted to, you could install something else and use that, and there was nothing stopping you at all. It’s just that the vast majority of consumers at the time didn’t know what a browser was, and they just knew that the big “e” on their screen meant internet. If you wanted something different to use, you would have known that a quick Google search would have found it for you within 5 seconds.
Apple is not locking out competing software from iPhone OS (if you want to pay the fee to become a registered dev, you can run whatever the hell you want to legitimately on the same OS, or you can jailbreak). They’re locking it out from the portal that they control, which is totally fair, given that every dev agrees to Apple’s terms when they sign up.
What everyone needs to do is take a step back from the “iPhone as a computer” model and go to the “iPhone as a smartphone” model. That’s what the iPhone is about. If you don’t like the way Apple does things with the iPhone, get one of the many other smartphones on the market.
This is not entirely correct.
Jailbreaking the phone is not considered “legal” by Apple, so you don’t legally really have a choice about how you can use the device you OWN. If it were simply a matter of going to a different source to legally purchase software, this wouldn’t be an issue.
Apple not only controls the portal, but the device itself, perhaps considering it PART of the portal, which in my opinion (and of course many others) not to be so.
I sent Google an email kindly requesting the source code for Google Voice so I can install it on my dev phone. No anwser yet. (fingers crossed)
“For starters, MS never locked anything out.”
I believe what they did was prevent OEMs from allowing their PCs to ship with a competing browser’s icon (Netscape) installed on the desktop. Also MS claimed that IE was part of the operating system and could not be uninstalled. Sure you could install another browser after the fact but IE had a leg up on the competition this way. Also, most people didn’t really know what a browser was and didn’t know any better.
Very good Mister G. You studied your history well.
But the facts, as they often do, go much deeper than that, software time bombs requiring upgrades … releasing code that is not ready for primetime and then charging for the ‘new and improved’ version that only does what the original was supposed to do … dirty pool … assimilate and disintegrate the competition … require millions to allow vendors play footsie with the code inside the black boxes.
BITS, RPC, WGA, a few other bits of technology that make the average user a goldfish in a clear glass bowl.
You really don’t know what you are talking about so maybe you should not embarrass yourself by posting. Apple denies a few, literally a handful of apps out of many thousands and now they are Microsoft? You have some research to do because one of these things is really, really not like the other.
Right-o. I believe MS has never denied *any* app from being installed on their OS. My bad. Apple is worse than MS?
Methinks the lady dost protest too much …
you do understand Apple is trying to get people like you grouped in with the likes of al Qaeda and the IRA. They actually want Jailbreakers to be considered threats to national security. While you’re here spouting off at the mouth about how great they are, they are lobbying Washington to send your butt to Leavenworth or Gitmo.
Google Wave (notice the Google in front of that) has an open API. There is a Bing bot (strangely enough called bingbot) which lets you ask a question within a wave and have it search for your answer using Bing and it will tell you the answer in the GOOGLE Wave. So yeah, I think Google will indeed let Bing use it’s API for a fancy service. Ya know why? Because it still means you are using Google’s program.
The HTC Magic looks great, so does the Hero. They have google Voice, lots of free apps .. and soon Flash. Why would you stick to the iPhone ?
PS: i have an iPhone, changing it this week with a Android-powered phone
Beg to differ Mike
Two words, ‘peer pressure.’
You are of course right: Apple don’t want Voice in the App Store.
But you talk about “playing by the rules” – what rules is my q?
Apple is a company which has created a store. It is then 100% up to them wether they want to sell the goods of someone in that store.
To me, it feels like a lot of people forget this.
You don’t find H&M clothing in a Zara store. You don’t buy O2 subscritions in a Vodaphone store.
And no one can really complain about that – it’s up to them.
As it is up to Apple to decide what applications they want in their store.
How’s life in the dorms this semester? Midterms going OK?
Attack the argument, not the person arguing. A personal attack does not make your point valid. Now you can go back to the dorms and think about what a bad boy you are.
If we go with this argument, MS created their OS. They can bundle whatever they want with it.
Sometimes I wonder when people get upset at the unfairness of expecting AAPL to consent to a direct competitor offering competing services on its platform. If you get outraged about this, you should at least be the slightest bit miffed about what the courts did to MS w/ regards to IE bundling.
And that gets your, your blood should absolutely boil over how the EU has time and time again shafted MS. The company has to basically spell out to competitors how to write a competing application. This is how we made a pivot table. This is how we implemented error handling. Christ, it’s ridiculous – AND the EU has fined MS close to $2 billion. I’d like to see what they do if MS turns around and says, “Fine. We’re not going to sell our products in the EU.” Let’s see how much the EU decides to fine them for that!
TechCrunch and Arrington! I’d like to hear all of your opinions on your opinion of this issue. It’d make a great piece.
BS, if you provide a service (iPhone dialer) and then host a marketplace in which you deny competitors the right to compete by any (legal) means then that’s called “unfair competition”.
Similarly, if you use your dominance in one market (e.g. smartphones) to force your way into another (e.g. online mapping) then you’ll likely find yourself in hot water too.
The US needs a competition watchdog with teeth.
Sam
Actually, it’s not considered ‘unfair’ competition unless the company has a monopoly on the industry or region. Since Apple has neither it can’t be considered unfair competition. Annoying maybe, but not unfair competition.
@samj:
How can a brand which have around 34% deployed market share* in North America be considered do have dominance?
*) Numbers from August 2009.
Nick, you make some excellent points.
Referring to high street stores isn’t really a comparison that can be used because the App Store allows users to browse and download applications from 3rd-party developers!!
Nick is 100% right on this.
It is Apple’s phone. They can let whatever applications they want on it.
You people at Techcrunch act like the internet is supposed to be some sort of fair place. Who cares if Apple or Facebook or anyone for that matter rejects an application for their platform, IT’S THEIR PLATFORM!
Your iPhone is NOT Apple’s phone; its YOUR phone. If you still think its Apple’s, someone’s screwing with your head, and has total control over you. No need to tell who that person is…
I don’t think Nick is right on this. Windows is Microsoft’s Platform and yet they need to abide by competition rules. The only difference is that at the moment the iPhone is not a monopoly. However if you looked at something like the ‘App Store’ Market specifically rather than say the mobile phone market then you could easily say Apple are a monopoly for applications bought and used on a smart phone because no other app store comes close.
Microsoft is not a monopoly as numerous people have claimed on this page. Get out your dictionaries. The worst thing you could call Microsoft is an oligopoly, and even that is a stretch.
Microsoft makes software for computers and phones. Apple controls both the hardware and the OS for their products. They both regulate, and tax all applications that can run on the iPhone.
It astounds me that Apple’s legal team keeps the company out of anti-trust suits. Bravo!
“It astounds me that Apple’s legal team keeps the company out of anti-trust suits. Bravo!’
It astounds me that you don’t know what anti-trust is or that you think Apple is in violation of it.
The issue isn’t the platform, it’s the store.
Perhaps Apple should allow other stores to operate, then users can shop there at their own risk.
I disagree with your deep assessment, Nick.
The analogy isn’t App store is to branded retailer as GV app is to different brand’s product. The analogy is App store is to mall as GV app is to store within mall.
When malls start denying Macy’s a lease for some lame, anti-competitive reason let me know.
…and I disagree with your assessment. Who says the App store is like a mall ?? That maybe what you would like but that ain’t what it is.
nah. Apple’s App Store transacts direct sales and has a direct distribution relationship with the customers, that’s not a mall. That’s a store.
OMFG, stop arguing over a TOTALLY FLAWED ANALOGY. It’s an absolutely terrible analogy to begin with. Jeebus.
Personally, I think the bigger issue continues to be Apple’s seemingly arbitrary rejection policies with regards to apps in the App Store.
Let’s grant Apple the right to restrict certain types of apps based purely on their own interests for a moment. Even if that is considered acceptable, Apple needs to either publish some sort of acceptance matrix by which companies could compare their product and be judged against it, or they need to develop some sort of pre-acceptance process for apps. Companies spend a lot of time, money, and effort into creating apps, and there should be a fair way to determine whether their development will be wasted due to Apple’s unstable boundary for acceptance.
Justin, do you think they legally need to do that? You are, of course, correct that having arbitrary rules will cause a lot of wasted development and time on the end of third parties. But isn’t the concept “if it sucks, go elsewhere?” Free market right?
Now what if the developers then respond, “there isn’t anywhere else to go. AAPL dominates the app market space”? The app store begins to be framed as a monopoly controlled by Apple doesn’t it? Just some food for thought…
agree with this. No one can force Walmart or Target to sell or distribute a certain product in their stores, same should apply to Apple’s branded App *Store*.
App delivery through the Safari is an entirely different matter.
I largely agree with that, Nick.
It’s Apple’s store, not anyone else’s, and to confuse an open marketplace like the mobile phone sector with a closed marketplace like the iTunes Store or iPhone is not helpful.
Apple introduces a platform such as the iPhone to make money and control what is introduced on to that platform. It’s annoying, perhaps, that Google Voice is not permitted, but that is Apple’s choice.
You may prefer to make that choice yourself, but bringing out all sorts of tendentious competition arguments about a private marketplace is just plain wrong and is an emotionally-driven response rather than a legal one.
Apple may be annoying in how closed it appears to us, but that’s the nature of its business. Always has been. To compare Apple’s still-nascent foray into the mobile market with Microsoft’s 90% share of global desktops is another lunatic distraction, again based on simple frustration rather than legal nous.
whew, i had to go to legaldictionary.com on that comment. Sadly, you miss the point. The law applies to all companies, regardless of size and share. Of course, Apple has the right to choose which apps they publish as long as they are consistent with all companies and follow fair trade laws. Mike’s point is that they aren’t consistent.
Following your logic, Apple can do whatever they please because they’re a small company. In fact, they HAVE tried doing whatever they please – backing-dating executive options (busted!), wrongful termination (sued!), and so on. Apple thinks they’re above the law. They aren’t.
Michael, you’re the man!
And to all Apple Fanboys, get a life and buy a PC!
)
(And I have a 5gen iPod and an iPhone
This may be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on techcrunch, and that’s saying something.
Just ignore the trolls, Jack.
Ignore the trolls? These Apple discussions are like troll conventions.
Google Voice and the lack of Flash won’t make me change to Android. There are so many other cool apps that makes my day better and easier.
I can live fine without Flash.
I agree about Flash, but I am becoming increasingly complacent about my iPhone – seriously, which apps make your day better or easier?
I would have said that people are bored and want more, yet as soon as anything remotely interesting comes along, Apple prevents you from accessing it.
with Apple telling you what you can and can not legally install, there will be no innovation on the iPhone – not until there are multiple competing app stores.
I chose to unlock the day I got the phone, so I paid a fair price for the device and ignored the ridiculous plan prices here in the US. if I had forked out thousands of dollars to AT&T, I would be seriously disappointed with the whole experience.
I have zero desire for flash on a mobile device. i don’t like it on computers as it is. On a mobile it will eat battery life and bea source of instability.
I’m enjoying this
! lol
I am an Apple User ever since. I have an iPhone, I bought various iPods and wrote a gazillion lines of code for the Apple ecosystem, but looking at the recent steps of Palm with their WebOS (free distribution via the web, no fees for open source developers, no app reviews) I am REALLY jealous!
I just don’t get it. Apple could sooo OWN the market AND the geeks by remembering their roots and being PIRATES again.
Apple desperately needs a strong OPENESS movement. Also because open markets win.
There is already a “shift of geeks” away from Apple – and ultimately WE are the guys that tell the normal users which platform they should switch to.
Once I switch to another platform, friends, family, coworkers and so on will follow me (of course with delay – but they will).
Apple like to keep things simple. For most users this is a GOOD THING. It is actually one of the reasons Apple is growing in popularity. Most people don’t want several ways, each with their own idiosyncrasies, to make phone calls and manage their phone messages
On the other hand, geeks want complete flexibility and don’t mind (nay, they enjoy) researching, and configuring as many features and options as possible. This is what they live for.
The end result of trying to fulfill everyone’s wish list is bloat and babble.
Certainly there is a market for a very extensible smartphone. But that doesn’t mean the iPhone should fulfill that role. A normal unsophisticated user with simple needs who blindly buys the technology that geeks prefer and recommend deserves exactly what they get.
I hope the geeks ignore and abandon the iPhone and leave Apple to keep producing products for “The rest of us”.
Apple has open sourced an awful lot of their technology. Which you are obviously unaware of. http://www.macosforge.org/
Why people expect Apple to give their products away for free is beyond me.
“An awful lot of their technology” was open source before it was “their technology;” they’re legally bound to re-publish their changes for a good chunk of it.
From what I’ve read about the FCC (added to what little I previously knew and understood), they have their heads up their arses, while run a merry dance by the big telcos, who tell ‘em anything they want to hear.
Apple are doing what comes naturally to Apple — waltzing into an existing market, re-write the rules, produce arguably the better product (if equally arguably feature-lite in some respects) and turn everyone into their bitches.
And yes, I’m a long-time Mac user, but that doesn’t blind me to what Steve Jobs .. err, Apple are like…
iFail
Am not a fanboy, but I have no problem in someone defending their core value proposition with means available to their disposal.
There are no innocents here. Apple stole from Xerox, got stolen from by MS. Google stole from Overture and Y!. So, in a scrap, let them figure it out.
The longer they scrap, the better the new products will be for all of us!
+1
Actually Apple did was invited by Xerox to use what they wanted and they paid them with a stock deal:
“Apple bought access to the PARC by means of a stock deal that seemed lucrative to the Xerox managers on the East Coast: They might buy 100,000 Apple stocks for one million dollars. Holding this admission ticket in the hand, Steve Jobs, Apple’s president Mike Scott, Bill Atkinson, and a number of members of the developing team marched up. “I think mostly … what we got in that hour and a half was inspiration and just sort of basically a bolstering of our convictions that a more graphical way to do things would make this business computer more accessible.”” (http://tr.im/B9kT)
Maybe it was like buying land with blankets and buttons, but it was a deal between a small and a huge corporation that, in this instance, favoured the little guys.
It’s understandable that they defend their own core business, but it’s not in favour of everyone who owns their products. As opensource alternatives get more serious and powerfull their advantages will appeal to more and more people, with chance of a domino effect. Also, I think developers that know that everyone has access to whatever they come up with are alot more motivated to develop for such a platform.
What I think is interesting is that Microsoft would never get away with this level of control over what we do or don’t install on our PC’s. Sure, the situation isn’t identical, but there are similarities. I hear MS getting a lot of stick but here we have Apple deciding what you can or can’t install on your iPhone. Imagine MS attempting to stop us installing any office package but theirs (I’m sure they’d love to – but they just can’t!)
and this is a big deal because????
Apple rejects a software and everyone is making a big deal out of it. If you don’t like the iPhone and have some strange hate for Apple, then don’t use or buy the iPhone or other Apple products. Simple as that! GROW UP PEOPLE
The iphone is starting to look old. It’s reached it’s hype peak and (some) people are starting to see through this and finally realising it’s just a big toy.
The iphone was great when the US was starved for decent devices back in the day but Nokia, Samsung and HTC are starting to finally make it in the US market and finally there is some choice. People should vote with their dollars and stop buying 2007 tech.
As the owner of a non-Apple smart phone I enjoy vastly superior flexibility and control of my device as well as not having to install 200 apps before it’s usable – and this is a year and a half old phone not something brand new. Come join the enlightened and try something apart from the iToy.
2004 called and would like their iPod argument back.
Um, the iToy was a mid 90’s product brought out by Sony
Thanks for reporting some of the negative facts about Apple’s phone, it feels as if only good things are ever reported by big media. Apple’s close-minded attitude about their phone and their patronizing “we know what’s best for you” attitude towards developers and indeed customers is by far the most appalling thing about the iPwn.
Thanks to some legendary hackers, there’s Cydia and an almost open platform to play in. Thanks iPhone Dev Team, you made my iPwn *good* rather than just *acceptable*.
“And that’s ok, because we all know that the real reason Apple won’t let Google Voice through is that they are scared out of their mind that Android and Google Voice will eat their iPhone lunch over the long term. Apple can’t win the fight over the long term, but they sure are willing to say and do anything in the short term to stop the advance of Google.”
Apple fanboy here. Why all the hate Mike? Is it because Apple doesn’t give you or TechCrunch the time of day? Or is it because with the coming release of the Crunchpad, you yourself are about to sell a competing product and you have a clear vested business interest in bashing Apple? Or is it a combination of these things?
Or perhaps I have missed your post on TechCrunch where you disclose and discuss your conflict of interest and lack of objectivity now that you are launching a product that will compete directly with Apple? On Charlie Rose you pointedly refused to disclose investors in the CrunchPad. It would be quite interesting if Jason Calicanis turned out to be an investor because he has also been on an Apple bashing rampage.
Anyway, your holier than thow rant criticizing Apple for lack of transparency conflict of interest are sheer hypocrisy.
Just found this old tweet from Jason Calicanis:
”
“Jason Calacanis
@TechCrunch I want to be first investor in Crunchpad Inc. And I want board seat. Period. No debate please!
http://www.tech...eet/1492301001/
Did Arrington accept the offer? If so, quite a coincidence that Arrington (Techcrunch) and Calicanis go on a full out Apple-hating campaign just before they launch a product that competes directly with Apple. In any case, Techcrunch has about as much objectivity on Apple as Microsoft.
You know, I really shouldn’t be the one defending TC’s objectivity, since I am constantly giving them hell about their bias, but I see this particular defense of Apple made constantly, and it doesn’t make even the slightest bit of sense.
You claim that they are bashing Apple, because they are going to be in direct competition with them. By that I assume you mean that the vaporware Crunchpad will be competing with the vaporware Apple tablet. Problem is, it will also be competing with the Google Chrome OS devices (which they seem quite excited about) the Microsoft Courier tablet (which they seem quite excited about), existing Windows tablets (which they seem completely oblivious to), netbooks (which they seem ambivalent about), and Android devices (which they fawn all over).
If your theory were true, why would they just be bashing Apple? Why wouldn’t they bash Microsoft, Google, and anyone else making a competing product?
I have another theory for you. Maybe Apple are acting like a bunch of dicks, and thinking that they can do whatever they want, because they have had the entire Internet bowing down to them for so long, that they forgot that maybe they wouldn’t get the unanimously positive press they so require to maintain their hype machine for the rest of eternity. Maybe three years of them shitting on their customers, developers and partners has finally been enough for some in the tech press to say “wait a minute, these guys are kind of asses.” Maybe now that Apple is officially the Diesel Jeans of the Tech world, people aren’t quite as willing to cut them slack on everything, just because they are the underdog. Or, put quite simply, maybe even the most Apple-loving blogger can see that when you refuse apps specifically because they compete with your products, that constitutes the very definition of egregious anti-competitive behavior.
You completely miss the point. Apple is first and foremost a business and has no obligation to be transparent or objective about anything. Arrington, on the other hand, pretends to be a “news” source and is constantly whining about lack of transparency and conflict of interest in others, but in fact he himself has shown zero transparency and has a huge conflict of interest when it comes to the Crunchpad.
No, I didn’t miss your point, that quite simply wasn’t the point you were making, until now. Your point was clearly that his bashing of Apple was motivated by a conflict of interest, not some broader generic concern about transparency or journalistic ethics in the abstract.
The thrust of your post was not to call into question the transparency of the site, it was to specifically attempt to discredit his criticism of Apple, by stating that it was financially motivated.
Yes. Chrome OS is a far bigger competitor to the elusive crunchpad than the Apple tablet is.
“The thrust of your post was not to call into question the transparency of the site, it was to specifically attempt to discredit his criticism of Apple, by stating that it was financially motivated.”
I didn’t think I needed to spell out the connection between lack of transparency and Arrington’s failure to disclose or discuss his conflict of interest.
Mike,
When cash4gold cheats, it’s business acumen according to you. But when Apple protects its turf from Google, it’s unfair business practice, monopoly etc etc!!
Be Consistent..Be a journalist!Stop being a Google fanboy!
It is clear that TechCrunch has a thing for Apple. I just wish that they would correctly characterize what is going on here. I feel like I’ve read this same rant 3 or 4 times now, so what’s up with that? I guess it is driving enough web traffic to your blog, might as well keep using it?
Apple claimed that Google Voice replaced the iPhone UI in significant ways. That isn’t about using WiFi, but about how the app works and integrates with other apps on the phone. If all Google Voice did was make calls, my guess is it would have been accepted as easily as Skype’s app or now Vonage.
Apple, like any big company needs to have people willing to call them on their stuff, but how about do it based on some real objectivity and accuracy?
There is no doubt that the current iPhone and Apple’s managing of the product has some issues. Every big company is in that boat especially when they have a product that takes the market by storm. And, every company which grows market share s quickly as Apple has with the iPhone is going to become a target to some degree. They now have a spotlight on them, as they work to innovate their product and remain leaders. But the truth of the matter is that Android phones haven’t taken off like the iPhone. Why is that?
Actually, Android has been growing just as fast in its first year as the iPhone did in its first year. However for some strange reason the iPhone going from 0% of the smartphone market, to 2% of the smartphone market in a year was reported as “the fastest selling electronic device ever” while that same growth for Android is reported as “just 2% of the market.”
Android is doing far better than any of the naysayers predicted it would, but as is typical, Apple get all the hype, because that is their core competency.
Lee Lloyd,
You’re comparing apples to oranges when you compare Androids “2% of the market” to Apple’s 2%. Google makes only the core OS. It may have 2% of the market but that 2% is split up among various handset makers produce various handsets and software onto the core.
The situation with the iPhone is completely different, where Apple makes a single handset from top to bottom that accounts for the entire 2%. You say it’s strange that the same 2% is described differently but in fact what’s strange is your bias that makes you think they are comparable when they are not.
Oh, I missed it then. Who is currently selling an Android phone in the US besides HTC?
Wait a second, you did it again! You said “Android phones haven’t taken off like the iPhone. Why is that?” You didn’t say “Android phones are not a vertically integrated single-vendor model like the iPhone, so they don’t count.”
It doesn’t matter if one company, or 500 companies make Android phones, your statement that “Android phones haven’t taken off like the iPhone” is false either way. They are still selling as well as the iPhone did at this point in its lifecycle, so they have “taken off” just as well as the iPhone has. One could even agrue they have “taken off” better, since the market has grown, and 2% of today’s market, is actually more units than 2% of the market when the first iPhone launched.
“Wait a second, you did it again! You said ‘Android phones haven’t taken off like the iPhone.’”
It seems like you’re talking to me, but I didn’t say those things. I said that comparing a 2% OS share to 2% device share is comparing apples and oranges. The very different business models and profit margins per device back that up.
Sorry Joseph, I assumed the person replying to me what the person I was replying to, and didn’t check. My mistake.
So, if I understand your point, you are saying that since Apple has a different business model than HTC, that means HTC’s phones don’t really compete with Apple, and sales of Android phone aren’t a lost sale for the iPhone family of products (because contrary to how you attempt to represent it, the iPhone is not a single handset, but in fact three generations of handsets, with multiple SKUs of each generation). Because last I checked, when a consumer is sitting in a store deciding which phone to get, they don’t typically say “well wait a second, is this phone a licensed OS running on hardware with a lower profit margin? If it is, I don’t want it! I want to make sure as much of the money I spend goes in the pocket of a single company as possible.”
To me it sounds a lot like you are saying that really none of the rest of the smartphone market can be compared to Apple, because Apple is different. If that is what you are saying, then yes we can agree that Apple has an amazing 100% of the market for Apple-branded hardware, and it is highly unlikely that any other company is ever going to get much of a toehold in that market. In the real world though, when someone goes into a store with the intent of getting a smartphone, if they walk out with an Android phone (regardless of who made it, or what their business model might be, or even how much it cost), that means they specifically did not buy an iPhone. Just look at the Author, who dumped his iPhone for an Android phone, the people in the comments here who are saying they are going to dump the iPhone for an Android phone, and people like me who never even bought a single iPhone, preferring instead to have a mix of BlackBerry, WinMo and Android. Those are all potential iPhone sales going to Android instead of the iPhone. You can qualify and mitigate that as much as you want, but the reality remains, the same x number of people are going to buy a smartphone this year, if 2% of them get Android phones, that is 2% that Apple, RIM, Nokia, Palm and WinMo didn’t get.
Well then I guess it’s the same thing with Microsoft since they just make the software, yeah I don’t think so. Good on Mike calling them out, I don’t care that Apple has the iPhone on lock down (I’m an iPhone owner) it’s their product like people have said, but to come out and lie to your face about why the rejected the GV app, it ain’t cool. Little things like these add up when you are weighing your options the next time you buy a phone, and they just keep piling up. Flash anyone?
“It is clear that TechCrunch has a thing for Apple. I just wish that they would correctly characterize what is going on here. I feel like I’ve read this same rant 3 or 4 times now, so what’s up with that? I guess it is driving enough web traffic to your blog, might as well keep using it?”
Absolutely. My favorite is the fact that they keep accusing Apple of lying about rejecting Google Voice – without evidence.
The facts are:
Apple says it has not been rejected.
Google says it HAS been rejected.
Now, one of them is lying. TechCrunch assumes it’s Apple and goes on a tirade because of that. But if Apple really rejected it, where is the letter? It would be trivial for Google to show someone the rejection (Apple Store rejections are in writing), but they haven’t. What does that tell you? And what does the fact that TechCrunch sides with Google and never demands a copy of that letter tell you?
Much ado about almost nothing. Is this really important? I use GVoice & have a link on my iPhone homepage. Not the most convenient, but it works. This is like background apps. I would like it, but manage to get along okay without it. You know… no “cut and paste” was a bigger inconvenience before we got it. BTW, competitors compete. It sort of works that way.
“BTW, competitors compete. It sort of works that way”
HARHARHAR!
This would be a great argument in favor of dictators around the world.
“Democracy?
Come on, we are competing here!
We decide what rules come in handy and it sort of works that way”.
Yeah right…!
POW! TC doing it up, Michael Arringtonizzle is in the bizzle. #SODMG POW!
omg. this is the real dre…this kid reads TC????!!!!!!! i think my jaw just dropped to the floor. how is this possible. the kid who spreads illiteracy worldwide is a tech controversy feind. anyways it’s cause he writes/talks like that other rapper, maino or whatever his name is, and juelz with the pow and sodmg. did he tweet this story link to his fans????
amazing how apple insists to lock itself in a niche hardware-software forced devices. again.
nah, you are right. apple is becoming nazified and it is getting old. the iphone that i own is the last one that i will own. as soon as a cool enough android phone comes out, i am jumping ship.
Gimme iPhone OS on HTC Leo and I’ll let this one slide Apple.
combine the worst aspect of the iPhone with the worse aspect of the HTC Leo? you have a lot to learn.
Michael is at it again! In spite of the fact that there is only one Michael Arrington (and I admire him for his achievements); over the past few weeks, Michael’s articles have been nothing but shameless tactics (using strong words/sentences) to generate traffic. There have been one or two good articles though.
I mean, who doesn’t know what Apple, AT&T and Google had to say about this issue? It was all over the web some time back. So, why bring up a stale topic and use it to write an article that only repeats what nearly everyone knows, thereby making it literally useless! (The Vonage app part was the only new thing in this article)
so everyone who disagrees with the post is an apple fanboy and as such directly discredited to have a normal conversation … yes, nice arrington, way to go. you are the one and only.
but if you were you should probably start testing out functionality before you write about it. after all Vonage and Skype replace only the pure phone function of the iphone, while the goolge app actually goes after all phone functionality including voice mail, call management and so forth. googles app tries to create a platform on top of the iphone’s, kind of like creating an OS over another OS.
next to that, apple is not afraid of google. andoid so far is a failure the google voice while good is going to have a limited audience (yes i know you love it … but that doesn’t make a market)
Ok, I’ll bite. Apple gets 2% of the smartphone market their first year selling the iPhone, and it is proof that RIM, Nokia and HTC are all soon to be out of business, yet when Android gets 2% of the market its first year, it is a failure. Care to explain how that works? For that matter, care to hazard a guess what Android’s share will be next year?
I’m guessing it will be most of it…
Probably 2%. It will never sell as well without an apple on the back of the phone. The monkeys won’t approve.
I’m surprised it even has 2%. I love my G1 (particularly how easy it is to just throw python scripts on it), but I realize it’s not fashionable enough to appeal to the hipsters.
Plus, there is no apple on the back.
apparently apple is now going into generating apple maps. interesting how all these things merge and all the lines seem to be moving. even goole schmidt used to be on the apple board. lol. i don’t understand why everyone’s surprised. i would much rather deal with the anger and i think the people who keep thinking the general population is stupid are discrediting themselves. i mean not a lot of people used google voice but some did and there’s enough interest out there for people to want to, but i phone users can’t use an app because after they accepted it, they rejected it. this isn’t all about apple fearing google and google’s intentions to get their fingers in every jar, this also touches on the fact that this whole apple store app process isn’t the best that it can be and that it seems like they follow some sort of rules that aren’t fully disclosed to all developers. why is that. it’s not hard to write a bunch of rules, post them where it’s visible and then update the rules as you see fit. i don’t get why they don’t just advertise their apps process rules. isn’t apple all about controlling user experience and integrating their products as seemless as possible, aka make your life easier and do all the thinking for you…so why don’t they make this process easier for people by disclosing their rules and the process they go through. i mean do they only act if there are complaints or enough complaints to get eyeballse. apple and it’s appleness is very unbecoming and this is why i don’t own any of their products at all. i don’t really care how good they are, because i can find somethings that are just as good that i can modify way easier to suit my needs. i don’t want to buy a freaking phone and then jailbreak it using cydia. please. i don’t buy phones so i can become a target for the company to use me in their argument to brand me an illegal user or whatever bs their apple legal team and their apple leagal speak, which they think people can’t understand in laymans terms, use.
Come on, FCC, throw us a bone.
Every once on a while there’s a good fight going on. This time it’s Apple’s turn. Apple versus Google. Apple versus Palm Pre, regarding the iTunes sync. A couple more of these and we’ll have an anti-trust against Apple in Europe most likely.
Another person who has no idea what a trust is.
Think about it this way, instead of comparing Apple to MS compare it to Nokia. Cause on this subject, we’re on their smartphones and not their computer OSs. I have a Nokia 5800 myself, and so far I love it for all the reasons I dislike iPhones:
* It’s customizable
* There’s an app store, but it’s your choice to use it, you can download apps directly from anywhere you want
* Openness, I can do whatever I want with my smartphone, unlike Apple, which limit you very clearly
Sure, iPhone has better apps, but nothing I can’t live without. I don’t see Nokia rejecting any app because of stupid reasons; worst case scenario you can download it from somewhere else than their store, and Nokia won’t void their warranty and won’t complain. You were never obliged to using their Application Store (Ovi). It’s your choice. Apple should learn from Nokia, they’ve been on the market longer, and the fact they let you use YOUR phone how YOU want, is the biggest reason why I love them, and why the majority of my friends and family use them as well.
So if there is such a superior competitor available, why the need for all the Apple hate?
For the lulz! I love it when snotty kids trip over their shoelaces and fall in the mud….and Apple has been very muddy lately.
A smart phone is an interesting middle-ground between a piece of hardware that should “just work”, like a stereo or a refrigerator, and a computer, which is flexible and offers all kinds of different uses.
IMO Apple has taken the in some cases annoying, but appropriate, stance on how this handset should be managed. It has created a huge ecosystem of apps for the phone while still ensuring that it, to as high a degree as possible, “just works” by enforcing very strict quality standards when it comes to stability and security (not necessarily usefulness) of every app.
It is also completely legitimate for a company to protect its main business.
If I’ve understood it correctly, the GV app kind of hi-jacks the phone call portion of the phone so that every call has to go through that. That’s the equivalent of Firefox automatically completely disabling Internet Explorer (and thereby also any function of the OS which uses IE libraries/APIs). I seriously doubt there would have been any fuss if the GV app worked like just any other app so you could still choose to use the native caller app.
And yes, as far as analogies go, the app store is equivalent to a shopping mall. As far as I know, the shopping mall owner is free to choose which stores they want in their mall. Nobody can force a shopping mall owner to include any specific store. I’m not American, so I’m not completely sure, but Bloomingdale’s in New York is a kind of shopping mall, right? Lots of different stores, all under the Bloomingdale’s umbrella? Could any clothing store that were denied a spot in Bloomingdale’s building sue Bloomingdale’s? I think not.
You did not understand it correctly.
On iphone it would have simply enabled easier GV calling when you used the app.
On Android it would take over the dailer *IF* you selected for it to do that.
Go read it again.
OK, if that’s the case then there’s obviously some strategical business decision behind the rejection of this app. I have no idea how the GV app works, I just based my comment on what I’ve read about it in this discussion. I really couldn’t care less about GV. I still think it’s perfectly legitimate for Apple to block whomever they want from the App Store. It might not be cool, or seem fair, or anything like that – but still within their rights.
You do have a strange way of showing your appreciation.
On Michael’s defends;
If you don’t like “subjective” human voices getting upset about something they care about just use one of these spineless mechanical news aggregation tools. Fall in love with a plastic,
get high on silicon but stop making fake compliments, it’s annoying.
If you like Techcrunch, you should love the fact that it is 1. resilient 2. has a spine 3. prioritizes like human do.
Perhaps that’s just not cup of tea Mister Nite?
Dear XYZ,
Well, it’s not that I don’t like ’subjective’ human voices writing about their feelings on a tech blog. It is the unnecessarily repetitive nature of some of these voices that annoys me. I would have stopped reading TechCrunch articles the day Michael cried out loud “I QUIT THE IPHONE” had it not been for the amusing articles of MGS. For the record, in my opinion, I would prefer Wired over TC any day!
this might probably be the worst thing i say all year…
here goes (coming from a devoted fanboy)…
Microsoft should get on the bandwagon and focus and highlight on Apple’s monopolistic practices with the iPhone. I say, if they were burned in the past, the best thing for them is to announce “Hey, we’re not the only ones who act like this” AND slow down some iPhone sales…
Whew. That was tough, siding with ’soft. But other than Google, Im not really sure who I can trust anymore.
Apple dont have enough market share to be a monopoly and anyone that tries the bullshit line that yeah but they have a monopoly in iPhones need to go and do some research on what a monopoly is.
But I’m not a fanboy. The iPhone is still lacking basic features that are standard for my middle of the line Nokia. Apple lack respect for their customers.
But I cant side with you on M$ until they get their $hit together.
Michael good post!
I know you are G1 boy now but just wondering if FTC is after TC because they do promote lots of stuff when it comes to iPhone and Twitter.
Freedom is a feature which apple seems to ignore and refuses to implement. Any platform that doesn’t implement freedom generally sees a slow erosion into obsolescence.
That would be true if… it were true. But its not.
How so? The iPhone is thus far locked to single carriers, it’s intentionally dumbed down for smooth user experience and can only do one thing at a time, and it’s a development nightmare in which Apple is actually allowed to say to devs, after the fact, “Nah, we might want to make software like that, ourselves.”
Developing for Android costs twenty-five bucks and that’s it. Malicious/hoax apps are policed by users and enforced by the return policy, and we just don’t get them. Funny, Apple’s draconian Council of App Elders or whatever just keeps letting the crap through.
Screw the iphone, buy a clone from china! It’ll be cheaper and you’ll have more functionality
+1
One of my friends did. Worked pretty well…….for around 3 months
If you had the legal right (you don’t) to install your own software on your own hardware (you don’t) then maybe this would be a non-issue. Yet apple refuses to allow users to do what they’ve been doing to computer since the first PC, install and create their own software without some grimey middle man.
Pretty sure only Apple denies you that legal right
Pretty sure you don’t have the faintest idea what you are talking about.
Which ‘legal right’ is that? Where does it say in the Constitution that you have any right to install GV on an iPhone? What law give you the right to do so?
Please, be specific.
The fact is that there’s no such law. Apple has the legal right to sell whatever they wish in the Apple Store. Period.
Please stick to subjects you know something about.
“Apple won’t let Google Voice through is that they are scared out of their mind that Android and Google Voice will eat their iPhone lunch over the long term. ”
How is a simple VoIP App going to harm Apples iPhone sales!?!
What is this rant actually about?
Smells fishy…
you obviously dont get that once gvoice sms is on the iphone, hoards of people will cancel their $20/month ripoff sms plan and use gvoice for that… not to mention the international calling rates that are 95% cheaper.
yeah, the only thing that smells fishy are Apple’s lies.
i can’t believe at&fail is coming out better in all this and all because apple is being their typical apple self because they don’t want to admit that things around them are changing and fast. how funny. it’ll be great if the developers shit on apple like how they backhand slap devs…including their customers. the day i was watching an apple commercial and figured that apple thought i was stupid and that their ads needed to pander to me, i was like f this crap. they are no better than any other company or even m$.
THANK YOU MICHAEL!
this is what TC should have more of.
Android eats the iPhone’s lunch how exactly? Android suffers from the same disastrous flaw that Windows Mobile does: it allows such a broad base of hardware types that writing good consistent software is nearly impossible. An app running on one WM phone can look and act quite different on a different WM phone because of this. The very thing that Arrington and other iPhone haters dislike about Apple – the control they keep over the iPhone and Mac hardware – is their greatest strength.
no. i think apple’s greatest strength is not being afraid to create, but they’re not doing much creating now are they considering how complacent their consumer base makes them. the only thing surprising about this whole thing is that they didn’t go to greater lengths to hide the fact that they really think google is their competition enough so that maybe whatever google does can impact apple in a way that apple did not concieve or in a way that goes against everything apple itself stands for or is known for. what i’m saying is that they spent money on their legal team to speak some bs…the same bs that comes from within the apple ecosystem itself and somehow extends itself into it’s own consumer base who do not have a healthy built in skepticism of a company…like how people have skepticism about governments, religion, democracy, companies. somehow when it comes to apple they are insulated, have invested in that insulation and built it very strong indedd, so much so that they do not feel the ire of the consumer. like apple is above the consumer…i actually think that apple would still exist as a company that made money even if they never sold products because what they are selling is just not technology. they sell a brand. they sell a lifestyle. they sell many tangibles and intangibles that people have bought into and if you’ve ever been in advertising, that is a sign of a good company. forget microsoft. how is it possible that apple has gotten this far being the company that they are and how is it that people continue to buy into their patented spiel. their speil is no different than other companies, and the only difference is that they implement it better. i mean in the future of open, is apple going to still be apple because they do not conform and they are “different” in their “we control user experience” speil for “better optimization or the best experience available” or are they going to take up the challenge and maybe reasses what their company is and stands for and change. i mean when change happens is apple going to be a the fore and lead it all or are they going to remain apple and stick to what they know best.
This is nuts. Apple should be able to do whatever it wants.. its apples platform. They can pick and choose what software runs on it as much as they want.
I’m an Apple fanboy but I agree with you 100%.
But they are accountable to no one, really. At least, they must feel that way with a decade of nothing but upside smacking them in the head. It’s enough to make anyone mad with power.
Next I expect Jobs to declare that underwear will be worn on the outside so they can make sure people are changing them every 3 days.
Classic link-bait: Bold proclamations based on personal opinions rather than even a shred of evidence (c.f. years of predicting the imminent death of the music biz; how is that going?). To paraphrase: “I switched from the iPhone to Android and GV, therefore Apple *must* be scared sh*tless that everyone else is going to do the same!” OK.
I’ve been a GrandCentral and GV user for years, and while I love the service, massive adoption by non-techies is unlikely. SMS is a pain and the transcription is hilariously bad, often to the point of being completely useless (Jott was marginally better).
GV also bases much of its pitch on a single number to ring all your phones. While that was pretty appealing a few years ago, landline usage for individuals is in decline as more and more users switch to mobile-only lifestyles. GV is much less appealing when it’s nothing more than a straight-up replacement for voicemail on a single number. If the transcription were better, using GV app/web interface/SMS notifications would be more useful. As it is, I can’t even use transcription to identify the name of a caller (when caller id is unknown or ambiguous) because the transcription of the name is wrong the *majority* of the time.
I use GV to ring my business extension to multiple phones and for work voicemail, and I will continue to do so. A few tech-savvy friends have tried GV but are still very hesitant to switch over completely. Part of that is the privacy concern of giving nearly everything to Google, and part of it is due to some of the features not working too well. Despite the waiting list, wholesale adoption among techies still appears pretty slow.
More importantly, Apple’s bread and butter with the iPhone is not techies like myself or Arrington. The iPhone has moved far beyond the tech/early adopter crowd and into the mainstream; everyone in my family and about 75% of my friends have them. Those people have no interest in GV. They also don’t care about “closed ecosystems” or all the other things that tech writers bitch about when it comes to the iPhone. They just want their phones to work, and if anything is going to be the undoing of the iPhone, it’s going to be AT&T’s crap service.
If 75% of your friends, and all of your family members, own an iPhone, then you must live in a very skewed neighborhood, because the iPhone only has 13% of the smartphone market, which is itself only 13% of the total phone market. So that means you, your family, and 75% of your friends are in the 1.8% of the total phone market that bought an iPhone. 1.8% is really kind of stretching the definition of moving “far beyond the tech/early adopter crowd.” In fact, I would say that 1.8% is probably well withing the tech/early adopter crowd.
Those people have no interest in GV. They also don’t care about “closed ecosystems” or all the other things that tech writers bitch about when it comes to the iPhone. They just want their phones to work, and if anything is going to be the undoing of the iPhone, it’s going to be AT&T’s crap service.
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i agree with your last point. at&fail is the weak link here, but i think apple doesn’t walk away from this experience or these experiences without some fallout.
the other argument about normal non techie people not caring and just wanting things to work is what i have a problem with because i hear it everywhere all the time and it just depresses me. you think people are stupid (might not be the word you use but you differentiate between normal people and tech people) and i think people are stupid. so we have that in agreement. i don’t agree with you that people don’t care. people care very much especially if it’s something as important as a phone that people use all the time everyday and have become integral to people’s lifestyles. i’m not talking about the cool factor about apple but more about the phone/multi use functionality of a smart phone or portable computer or whatever people call them. it provides functions people need and use so people care. they do care that it works, but people sometimes also care about how things work and why they want x instead of y and will actually observe what they are doing. thinking, acting, emoting doesn’t just extend to tech people. people are people everywhere and you might think these apple experiences of negativity exist in a vacum, but i bet it doesn’t. i would probably lose because there are many stupid people in the world and they seem to be the one’s who like posturing and using the iphone without knowing why they own the product or why they use it or how it works, but it’s not just apple that this behaviour is exemplified…it happens to a lot of other comapnies with products people feel are theirs. some sort of personal bond with products. if google voice was allowed full featured without having to dum itself down and if people knew ab out google voice, they would most likely use the google voice gc service. they would figure out a way that they could screw over both apple and at&t because people usually don’t like to be controlled. if they knew they were being manipulated in any way i bet a lot of people would buck the apple trend, nevermind at&t.
Michael,
You have managed to spiral downward to the point that your insight and musings on the state of technology is just another old technology pundit railing against the unfairness of it all.
No one of real worth cares, it’s the have-nots complaining, as usual and Apple is the target du jour because they invent, create and market to actually make money and they choose not to allow others into their sandbox to dilute their IP and share in the spoils of their work.
This is only my view as a staunch technology capitalist who has already lived through this.
I love Apple products, but can’t stand the Microsoftian moves it makes from time to time. I wholeheartedly agree with what you’ve said, except the fanboi part.
Sincerely,
Applefanboi
Watching apple users suddenly discover libertarian concepts of business and property is kinda funny.
What is even funnier is this only is hurting Apple in the long run! Do they think walling off Google the internet company from the Iphone is going to stop Google the internet company, or hurt google the phone OS maker in the long run?
No, it only makes Apple look petulant and destroys trust in them, which can only help Google the phone OS maker.
All this has done for Apple is to give the techhead and development community reason to look beyond the iPhone and to reexamine the benefits of open platforms.
It just doesn’t make sense from a strategic viewpoint.
Apple and Android are 2 entirely different platforms. They cannot stop Android, but, the smartphone market is huge and only growing! There will always be room for Apple’s take on computing, and room for others as well.
Picking a fight over this is dumb, what they need to be doing is building up trust.
Thanks to @arrington providing a forum to raise our frustration against Apple. I love apple Products but hate apple’s policies. Lets not give up our fight till apple change their policies and accept GV
Interestly there is an iPhone app, ‘iCall” which I am using which allows to make VOIP calls over wifi. The ad supported version is free too.
Arringtons “forum” is to raise his own self interest in Google which he does not disclose. Isn’t that right Mikey?
LOL, if you keep buying apple’s products regardless of their actions, the actions aren’t going to change. It just so happens that Apple realizes their core customer base (people too stupid to use a PC without destroying it) can’t afford to NOT use Apple products, so they have no threats of any sort.
A company that manufactures tricycles for little children likewise doesn’t view Harley Davidson as a threat. Apple users can’t quit, because they can’t operate other machinery. It’s like heroin, and Apple knows this. They could break into your house and shit in your microwave, and Mac users would sob a bit, say “why would you do that! you need to stop! …by the way, do you have an iphone I could buy?”
Apple isn’t going to change, because no one using their products can afford to stop using them.
It is easy to throw rocks (comments) from outside!!! Does anybody really know what the behind the scenes true Apple and Google story is?
I sort of have to agree. This seems kind of like a mob-inciting post, when in actuality there’s no real knowledge about what’s really going on behind the scenes. Would be great if TechCrunch were able to do something beyond conjecture.
Behind the scenes:
Apple = trembling with fear
Google = giggling