“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing” – Edmund Burke
“Technology will never deliver us from evil. Only decent people can.” – Rabbi Abraham Cooper
What an odd blog post on Facebook today by Rabbi Abraham Cooper. The social network has failed to take a leadership position against Holocaust denial groups. And just when the buzz dies down, they post an article that ends with “We all must do our part to ensure that social media lands on the side of the good.”
So, ok, great. Let’s start by removing the Holocaust denial groups that put Facebook’s logo above some of the most ridiculously vile stuff I’ve ever read. eBay and others don’t allow Holocaust denial because it’s a back door to Jewish hatred. As a private company, Facebook could easily take the position that their site is no place for that kind of nonsense. Show me a Holocaust denier who doesn’t hate Jews and we can start a conversation I guess. But the fact is, they don’t exist.
Do your part, Facebook. Follow the Rabbi’s advice. Shut that evilness down. Sure, it’s funny when Facebook employees mock the situation by creating groups like “Michael Arrington Does Not Exist.” But I think Facebook can do more to be a part of a solution to the problem, rather than part of the cause.
Lovely,
Free speech and ideas are only allowed if they pass the PC test.
Free Speech is about what the government allows.
Facebook is a private company.
Huge difference there.
What the hell are you on about…
You are right, FB is a private company and can choose the censor, or not. It seems they fall on the or not side. The bigger, and broader your audience is, the less and less you should ever screw with censorship.
At least with the hate groups, you know where they are, so you can mock and harass them.
I don’t, in any way condone any type of hate groups on facebook or elsewhere, but… I wonder if Mr. Arrington feels the same away about other hate groups on Facebook, such as
“I Hate Mexicans” http://www.face...3.2691748061..1
or the ones that use the “n” word: http://www.face...3.1526089560..1
My point is, that if you’re going to stick up for one group based on the principle that we should err on the side of good, then why not make it less about those who hate “Jews” and more about promoting the principle? I think this approach will garner more support for your cause Mr. Arrington, as opposed to this narrow-focused agenda of yours.
I agree. Stand up for against all hate groups, not just the ones that offend your group.
Give a voice to those that don’t have one, that shows character and is respectable.
*…up against all hate…
Nah it is just beating a dead horse for page views.
Techcrunch regularly features ” Four c * 8 h ( a ) n”
One of the places filled with racist drivel.
Check the archives.
I do agree we should talk against all kind of hate instead of limiting that to holocaust denial there are hundreds of groups against Muslims (try just to type fuck islam on facebook and you will see by yourself)
But they DO censor/ban breast feeding groups, just not the Jew-hating groups. Hmm…
I think that free speech is important. And to quote Noam Chomsky, if you believe in free speech you believe in it explicitly for those opinions that you _hate_, not just those that you agree with. As Zittrain points out, private corporations and the products they create have an increasing importance and clout and control.
WTF Is This Article Doing On Techcrunch?
Michael do you not think it’s racists of you to only focus on one group of people?
FYI, we’ve had genocides in Africa during the Clinton’s years that saw same order of magnitude of africans perish as Jews did 60 years ago. Yet, the white house wrote a memo asking his administration not to use the word “genocide”. Basically, our president was denying the genocide in more profound way than any of these trashy hate groups do.
However, we never hear about these sorts of things, or at least don’t hear them with the same magnitude visavis the Holocaust, even though not only they are more immediate in historical relevance but more importantly afford us the ability of saving lives.
I hope you consider this point and use your energy and reach to bring attention on more immediate and pressing atrocities.
Excellent and salient points. Hate in general, and mass murder, should not have a ranking system. The Armenian Genocide, The Holocaust, Darfur, along with many many other atrocities of recent and ancient history should all be afforded the the highest levels of care and outrage when discussed in the public domain.
Exactly! Genocide is happening even now… let’s concentrate on that and try stop that instead! 1.3+ million Iraqis have died since Bush started his so called “War on Terror” and even now, everyday tens of people are dying in Iraq, Palestine, Somalia, Afganistan, Pakistan… etc, most of them by US forces and unmanned drones or by the weapons they donate to the regimes.
Does blood of these people have no value to Americans? Or only US citizens’ and “Jews” blood is sacred? Come on, we have to be just and not biased to one race of people or country or illegal state (that grabs other people’s land). Instead promote the value of Justice, and deal with people Justly! Even if your family members, relatives, friends and colleagues will be at the disadvantage by your just rule/decision! Only then you will be respected.
You have no clue what your talking about. This has no place on techcrunch. go cry on your facebook blog.
Which part of his arguments are wrong ?
totally agree. I just don’t understand why MA is bringing up this holocaust thing over and over again. Apple polishing for MZ? In order to create enough pressure so Zuck can finally say “alright alright guys, we will start censoring holocaust denials. And of course also anything that isn’t in the very interest of jews around the world, including criticism of Israelian politics”.
Note: I’d never deny holocaust and I’m not a racist at all. just find it odd how unbalanced and narrow-minded some people are.
There a dozens of mini-holocausts going on in this very moment and only few people care. Many people of small tribes of natives living in the rain forests around the world are killed and driven off their land day by day. For money reasons (cheap wood = new furniture for your saloon. great, isn’t it?). Capitalism hooray!
I disagree w/ riding FB about the Holocaust denial groups. If FB removes these groups, it is not censorship – censorship is what the gov does. However, even as a private company with the right to remove these groups, there is something to be said for a laissez faire approach as it relates to opposing view points / speech.
Did the Holocaust happen? Yes. Are people who deny it exceedingly foolish? Yes. Does it do a service to the discussion to stifle people from airing their stupidity? No. Does “hate” (or whatever you call it) go away because FB suppresses these views? No.
Dumb ideas are best debunked by attacking them w/ reason and logic – not shutting down the discussion.
Mr. Arrington, I love the blog and read it every day, but I think you’re way off base on this one.
Nevermind WTF on facebook Checkout the Museum of WTF! http://bit.ly/14TWva It really exists for now!
… and it really is a ginormous waste of time. Come back later when you have something good.
Never Foget
Eric Hufschmid is a Holocaust researcher who doesn’t hate Jews. He has evidence that the Holocaust propaganda is grossly exaggerated.
Do you know that researching holocaust is illegal in Europe? Why, if not because they have stuff to hide?
I’ll unsubscribe from the Crunch network if you keep going where you don’t belong.
let me guess… secret evidence? that the jews are stopping being released more widely right?
it’s not illegal to research the holocaust in Europe – in some places with a track record of violent anti-semitism explicit holocaust denial is an offense and Nazi memorabilia is banned in many places
who has stuff to hide? who is the THEY that has stuff to hide? hmm… the jews?
gotcha – see where you’re coming from with this mark and THANKS for the input… but whatever you do don’t unsubscribe from the Crunch network – Cap’n Crunch would miss you
muppet
Ya know the jews do not like it when other groups try to use the word “holocaust” as if it’s their brand or trademark.
http://www.thew...ives/002312.php
And that’s a fact.
Don’t speak for Jews, you fool.
“going where you don’t belong”
WTF is that? Talking about injustices in the tech community? I think that’s EXACTLY WHERE TECHCRUNCH DOES BELONG. It’s called news.
Also researching the holocaust is NOT illegal in Europe, just look at Jan Gross, a Polish author of “Neighbors” and “Fear”, two incredibly well researched books about the holocaust. Get your facts straight and stop spreading ridiculous propoganda
Oh yeah this guy is a reliable source : http://www.erichufschmid.net/
I particularly like the part where he blames Jews for 9/11, yep win for you there, he certainly has no agenda.
Mark stated:
“I’ll unsubscribe from the Crunch network if you keep going where you don’t belong.”
Then I hope that Arrington keeps going there, even if he does make big mistakes like giving Paul Carr a job.
Good in theory, ugly in practice. Google/YouTube practices censorship in cahoots with the ADL, all well and good when it targets Jews by, typically, non-Jews (note some Jews also deny the holocaust).
The problem arises when it is Jews doing the racism. Case in point are many American-Jews caught on camera spewing vile statements about blacks and threatening the life of Barack Obama. YouTube pulled that video down after 400,000 views… probably at the urging of the ADL, not for its principle mission, but rather it presents Jews in a bad light.
Positions like this lead to a slippery slope that prevents dialog about racism harbored by Jews themselves.
http://mondowei...ro-address.html
You are freaking nuts. They aren’t Jews if they are “denying the Holocaust”. All your statements are in no way backed up by any fact.
You must be KKK, neo-nazi, or just plain stupid.
Do you think that there isn’t a single race or religion that does not have racist extremists?
There are blacks who try to kill whites, whites who try to kill hispanics, hispanics who try to kill the president, muslims who try to destroy america, jews who want to kill muslims, etc.
Free speech is free speech. Let people exchange ideas as they wish. FB isn’t even an intrusive medium like TV where crap is pushed out.
Censorship here does not serve any purpose other than to preserve one’s ideas and way of thinking. FB is essentially a closed-door forum where people choose where/how they want to participate.
When it’s ok to disrespect the President because of his race, and not only ok but encourage in prominent circles in our country, it sends a message that everything else is acceptable as well. If we don’t deal with the polarization that’s occurring around us as we speak racism will flourish (as it has been for the past few months in the extreme).
Good post.
Sometimes I do wonder if a person gets so deep into the tech world (surrounded by the same group) they forget the real world.
are you jewish? quite frankly it’s time to get over it… the holocaust has been marketed way too much.
Time to give some time to the palestinians, or black slavery, or how about all the stalin victims, or how about ethiopia, or other genocide victims…
The entire holocaust thing is getting a bit on my nerves with 4 movies every year, blogs, and nytimes… if it would not have happened what would you guys all be writing about. yes it was bad and wrong. But guess what there are other things going on right now we can actually change…
One would be the palestinian issues, with occupied territories, clearly illegal according to international law… genocide, war crimes..etc.
Only about 4% of us population is Jewish.. and also of your readership.. so please keep it a bit more balanced. thanks. (and I am neither Arab, Jewish or Palestinian)
I think using statistics misses the point and trivializes what happened and its implications. People need to use history as a tool to help solve the issues of today and tomorrow. Few people deny the atrocities of stalin, mao and so on, but they do so about the holocaust because they have a deep seeded hatred for jews. The fact that we still have these atrocities today means that people are not learning from the past.
no it’s the victim role you are taking. For everything that happened in history you find deniers. It is generally respected, historically proven that it did happen. Period, its in history books and 99% of people know it and believe it. So it’s time to get over it, not searching with a magnifying glass, or pointing at the few people who are not and keep blowing it up. You never get 100%. Instead focus on the astrocities the jews comit with international law violation every day in the occupied territories. Or how about the armenian genocide which is no where anywhere as conclusively documented in history books.
You need to let go, the holocaust is done, talked about, discussed, put in 500 films. It’s time to give some respect to victims of other genocides who have not had the stagelight and pressence.
Keeping the holocaust debate alive, and rechewing it over and over, and rehashing it, is a disservice to what’s going on now and other genocide victims who don’t have the jewish lobby with film makers, journalists and educated people that the jews enjoy. Its time to give back the sympathy the jews have enjoyed and put their talents to work to put a spotlight on other genocides, astrocities that are going on right now.
“sympathy the jews have enjoyed” who is enjoying having their families wiped out and brutally murdered. I dont want your sympathy, i want people to go out and fight for others, do anything possible to make sure it doesnt happen to anyone. If you have an issue with other people not “covering” or paying attention to other cases of genocide, contact your government, write about it, make a movie about it. enough people doing it will bring it to the forefront.
so why are you wining about the holocaust. Today we have jews that occupy other nations in direct violation of international law. We have UN reports of war crimes comitted by jews against palestines, we have settlement building in occupied territories against international law.
So stop whining about the holocaust and do something to stop the genocide that is going on in front of your own eyes comitted by the very same people who make a living about the holocaust.
It’s time to move on… put the spot light on others.. I never understood why the victims often move on and become the perpetrators.. or at least that’s what it seems going on in palestine.
Scott F. become part of the solution, invest your time and energy to stop the genocides going on right now in Palestine. Do it for all those people that died in the Holocaust. They would turn over in their graves.. if they knew what Israel is doing…
I am not whining about the holocaust, i am trying to tell you that history has proven that people need to keep talking about the past to make sure it does not happen in the future. millions of people in Iran today believe the stuff that their so called leader spews. it is a breeding ground for hatred and he would love to spread his word to millions. I am not sure why you are conflating this conversation about the holocaust with Israel. One has to do with genocide and hatred and the other has to do with state building. To get into Israel debate, perhaps you should start with the Balfour Declaration of 1917, which is one of the key documents for the breakdown of the middle east today. I would be happy to engage you in a friendly conversation and get into the main issue of the right of return, etc.
@Test
That’s not the Jews ass hat, it’s the Israelis. I’m Jewish, and I’m pretty sure I’m not out committing atrocities. And if you recall it was the UN that granted Israel sovereignty of the territories in Palestine.
Also if you recall Israel is in violation of some 60+ UN resolutions.
I fully agree!!! well said!!
“the entire holocaust thing is getting a bit on my nerves”??
that’s a wonderful quote. you should be sure to show it off to friends and family with pride.
and how bout that damn lung cancer thing? so freaking BORING… and sudan? what a drag! jeez.
I smiled the first time I read your quote.
I laughed hard, the 11th time I read it.
Well put! 11 times.
I figure Facebook is making a strategic decision not to get involved. And Mike is making a strategic decision for TC to get involved. You can choose whether you want to support Facebook or not (I choose not to – no FB account for me).
it’s pretty simple.. facebook is laughing at TC by getting all upset about it…
TC was acting up, showing an error message when you posted, so it seems people clicked multiple times.
lets make tshirts with “the entire holocaust thing is getting a bit on my nerves”
it’s right up there with “slavery – wish i was doing something else right now”
Lets make tshirts with:
“Jesus was not killed by Nazis”
or how about
“Adopt an American Indian Genocide Victim”
or how about
“I feel so freaking righteous about the holocaust that I have the right to accuse everyone as a zionist who mentions anything against it”
or how about
“I am upset because facebook doesn’t give a shit about the holocaust and I just can’t change it”
or how about just
“I suck so much that even facebook is punking me” – that’s probably the ultimate disgrace.
Stop doing foolish quotations, and quote the whole sentense and not only the part you want!
“That damn lung cancer thing, so freaking BORING”
that’s a more wonderful quote. shame on you!
Jeremy… the holocaust happened 50 years ago, and the victims or better the heirs got paid royally so far by many companies, not mentioning all the thousands of films and publications and books and stories. Something the American Indians, the Blacks, the Armenians, the Ethiopians or Palestinians can only dream off. Yes it was wrong, we all know it, yes there was suffering, but there is an industry around it that is wrong and takes away from it all.
Jeremy Toeman, stop being ignorant, do what is right, and invest time and energy to fight the inequalities that are going on RIGHT now, committed by the heirs of the holocaust, in direct violation of international law.
Jeremy Toeman, do what is right. Share some empathy with others, stop being a jerk, open your eyes. The jews got the recognition and historical validation about it. They got hundreds of movies and books and articles. Quite frankly we got the message. But taking the spotlight indefenitely takes it away from where it really belongs.. the violations against international law committed right now.
Jeremy Toeman, wake up, stop being a jerk and take responsibility.
@Sceptic: You Sir, are the epitome of evil and sadly lacking in any concept of truth and ethic. But that’s nativity, so I guess, you cannot be blamed. Just three points: a) The survivors or following generation of holocaust effected families can prove the holocaust simply by presenting their family trees and the gaps within, not to mention the stories by relatives of or actual survivors. (What went on was horrific – and there are in fact very FEW movies that document this, while there are hundreds of films that cover racism.) b) Not a single Jew I know has profited from or been awarded anything in relation to the Holocaust, so on that front you are generalising. (But if you sprain your ankle in any Western city today, you can claim lots of money in return for your clumsiness.) c) While it is fair to say that no single atrocity should be allowed to overshadow another, the holocaust gets much ‘press’ because the Jews were unarmed, innocent (they were NOT in a war or dispute, simply hard working) and then betrayed by humanity – the duplicitous British included. They have gone on against the odds to create some great businesses and employ millions. Envy is the reason for their plight, nothing else. And when were you last mugged by a Jew? (Don’t mention Madoff, he stole from Jews too.) They earn their keep and contribute a huge amount to humanity in proportion to their demographic size. And don’t go on about the Palestinians – woe is they – always complaining no matter how much land is conceded or billions of dollars provided. (Hence rather a number of Mercedes driven by their dastardly ‘leaders’.) They are simply a tool for use by Jew haters who relish the excellent propaganda value of a sparkly eyed Palestinian child carefully posed for the leftists sent out there to seek sob stories. Have you seen a map of the Middle East? How many huge wealthy Arab countries have offered to take them in? Zero! If Israel vanished tomorrow, tell us, what do you think would happen to the Palestinians? I will tell you: They would lose Western quality hospitals and medical brilliance, the only stable democracy with an accountable government (hence in Israel, corrupt politicians are prosecuted) and jobs. Suggest you visit a few of the wonderfully governed local Arab countries, stay for a year in each, then try Israel, and then come back and post your opinion here. I think you will be in for a surprise!
Like many here who know the truth (this is not really the forum for such a subject), the single reason the Jews are picked on has nothing to do with Israel (it didn’t even exist at the start of WW2), it is envy of such a thoughtful and industrious people. I guess they need to fail and then they will earn the empathy of the idiotic left.
You’re a freakin idiot, there are millions of Palestenian refugees all over the world you fucking moron. Type your lectures somewhere else,. Western hospitals? you’re a fucking idiot, enough said
I’m going to invade your front yard. Then you going to tell me to go away. Then I will fire a missil in your house, put a fence around the remains, and stop any supplies of water or gas or food to your house for a few weeks. Then when the public opnion gets to hard to handdle I’m going to give you half of your front yard back, take out the fence to let you get some water and food, and even throw some money at you, so that you can rebuild one third of your house back to the way it was before I bombed it. And then if you don’t shut the f*k up I will just tell everyone that I gave you half a yard and some money and that you still complaining becouse its never enough for you!
Right now israel is violating international law. Over and over again, they are comitting genocide. And you defending it all is a crime. Shame on you…
So just to see if I understand you properly here, I am “a jerk” because I think it’s important to keep the memory of the Holocaust alive? Well, sir, I am one heck of a jerk then.
the memory of the holocaust is alive and documented in 5000 films, and publications. Its time someone keeps the massive violations of international law in the palestinian territories alive, as well as the war crimes all documented by the UN. They don’t have a voice. Get over your holocaust thing.. focus on the murders and violation the jews are up to right now.
Skeptic, you forget one simple fact, the difference of what happend (60 years ago, by the way), is that the Nazi’s have built an almost perfect system of killing which was backed fully by the Nazi government, german companies and other eastern Euoropean countries. The other atrocities you have mentioned happend without special preparation or organization to “wipe out” in a systematical way. That is way it is concidered more “important” to history.
A massacre happening in a village by a crazy captain and his men, or even by the local army is different than taking train loads of people, and putting them in line for execution (while shooting the ones who fall down) in what would otherwise look like a line for the unemployment office.
The germans know how to build excellent systems, and they have done it 60 years ago. Today they use their ability to make great cars.
how is that different to the turks wiping out the armenians, or staling killing his millions. Here read this
http://en.wikip...occupied_Europe
Most only know ww2…
People are people no matter how small!
Again and again, leftists crop up who spout the most ridiculous anti-Semetic propaganda all over the internet and GET AWAY WITH IT. TC needs to ban these idiots.
1) Telling people to get over the Holocaust is right behind the step of forgetting about it, which is right behind the step of repeating it. People who say that Jews need to “get over” the Holocaust are tantamount to calling for another Holocaust, since getting people to “get over it” is only going to lead to another Holocaust.
2) I suppose you also believe that Arafat was the greatest peacemaker than the Palestinians had too, right? Fact is, Israel proposed a full peace plan to the Palestinians in 2000 at Camp David by Israeli Prime Minister (at the time, now Minister of Defense) Ehud Barak, that included:
a) a full, autonomous Palestinian state with its capital in Jerusalem
b) control over the Temple Mount
c) control over 95% of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip and
d) Billions of dollars of compensation for 1948 refugees who were displaced from the UN partition plan that called for a Palestinian state, which oh by the way was approved in 1948 by the Israelis and turned down by the Palestinians, and the displacement happened because the Arab nations of Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon all invaded Israel in an attempt to “drive them [the Jews] into the sea.” Source: http://en.wikip...Camp_david_2000
What happens? This was in July 2000. Arafat says no, comes home, and the 2nd Intifada starts in September 2000, sending in suicide bombers to kill innocent Israelis.
So what does Israel do? It constructs a fence to keep out the suicide bombers. After the construction of the fence, the number of suicide bombings in Israel quickly falls to 0 and is thus clearly working as an instrument of a government to protect its citizens from terror. But what does the international community do? It calls it illegal and a human rights violation for a government to fulfill its basic mandate of protecting its citizens from outside enemies.
What does Israel do next? It unilaterally withdraws from the Gaza Strip, forcibly evicting thousands of Israelis from their homes (many of whom had been forcibly evicted from the Sinai Peninsula when Israel traded it for peace with the Egyptians) and prompting a massive number of rocket attacks that, unlike home-made fireworks, are shipped directly to the Hamas terrorist government by Syria and Iran and kill and maim Israeli civilians, including psychological damage to Israeli children who grow up sleeping in the same bed as their parents on the first floor of a 2 story house because a) the teenagers are too scared to sleep in their own bed at night for fear of a rocket and b) because there isn’t enough time to run to the rocket shelter from the 2nd floor.
In the meantime, leftist anti-Semetists like yourself spout bullshit statistics that state that more Palestinians were killed than Israelis, and that makes the Palestinians right. In fact, when looking at innocent civilian deaths and not the deaths of terrorist (Hamas is recognized by the US as a terrorist organization) criminals and the people who aid and abet them, the number of innocent Israelis killed is far, far greater than the number of innocent Palestinians – in fact, the ratio between innocent Israelis to innocent Palestinians is so high that Israel is praised for its recognition and preservation of Palestinian life during conflict. Before Israel bombs the house of a terrorist, Israel drops flyers in the area several hours before telling people to get out, and calls the house to tell the people in the house to get out in order to attempt the barest minimum of casualties. So why are there Palestinians dead? a) Hamas tells people that Israel canceled the attack and to go back to their homes regardless of the warnings clearly shown to them, b) Hamas puts militant infrastructure in the middle of civilian residences and community. In the US, army bases are set far away from civilians so that it can be attacked without endangering US citizens. Hamas sets its bases within the civilian population so that when Israel bombs it, Hamas can put a child with a head injury on the evening news. If someone is shooting at you while using a child as a human shield, what are you going to do?!
And throughout all this, Israel affords people of all ethnicities and religions who live within its borders and born in mainland Israel full citizenship, including Palestinians, Bedouins, and other Arab ethnicities. This entitles them to receive health care at modern Western hospitals that rival the quality of similar institutions in the US and throughout the West and handily beat the institutions in the US on price. All Israeli citizens, Jewish, Muslim, Arab, Palestinian, Christian – everyone is taxed the same, treated the same, and afforded the same rights.
People like you who take anti-Semetic (because face it – anti-Zionism is nothing less than anti-Semetism) propaganda at face value and do not do any research or fact checking are the reason why evil, real pure evil, exists in the world today – Iran. If people like Obama realized that trying to talk to fundamentalist Islamist extremists is like Neville Chamberlain trying to talk to Hitler, we would have bombed Iran’s nuclear facilities back to the Stone Age a looooong time ago, like how Israel has wanted to do for AGES as backed up by solid intelligence but won’t because world governments are led by appeasers. People like you make me sick.
Well said.
Don’t blame the leftist. Israel was fed on leftist principles.
the main problem is that Israel has no claim to israel.. its land that belongs to someone else.. the European powers just felt bad after ww2 so they gave them someone else’s land… BS…
So the fact is Israel should belong to palestine.. and germany should give up part of its land to give to the jews as restribution.
“Show me a Holocaust denier who doesn’t hate Jews and we can start a conversation I guess. But the fact is, they don’t exist.”
That statement is simply untrue. You’re the type who screams “TERRORIST” at anyone who questions the physics behind 9/11, the remarkable likeness between the towners falling and demolished buildings, or the ability for people to take over multiple planes with 4inch blades?!
People can exchange ideas. There is nothing wrong with questioning what we’re told. History has shown us how populations have been fleeced throughout history.
“… the physics behind 9/11, the remarkable likeness between the towners falling and demolished buildings…”
Please. Get a set of plates and legos and build a 10 foot tall tower. Now remove a set of internal supports and watch it fall. Now do it again and do exactly the same thing. And again.
It will tend to fall in a similar fashion each time, because each time it was constructed in the same fashion (the two towers) and failed in pretty much the same manner (top floors collapsing onto lower floors in a pancake fashion). That physics thing.
And actually, they didn’t fall exactly the same (one leaned over quite a bit), because each was hit at a different level and angle and location, and failed internally at different points. But each was identical in construction, and a mid-tower floor support failure coupled with basic gravity caused the same general appearance and result. (Physics again.)
As to taking over airplanes… are you nuts? Prior to 9/11 hijacking a plane was pretty simply. It simply wasn’t done because there was little payoff in doing so. Eventually you had to land somewhere, and when you do the world falls in on you (remember Israel and Operation Entebbe?.
Pilots and crews were repeatedly told that, if hijacked, do whatever’s needed, keep everyone calm, then get the plane back on the ground so the special forces guys can take over. Unfortunately, that wasn’t what that particular group wanted.
Finally, I think way too much credit is given to the “extraordinary” amount of planning and detail that went into 9/11. Hell, I could have done it. How hard is it to tell a couple of guys to take flying lessons, divide them up into teams, and then book a set of plane flights leaving at roughly the same time on the same morning?
Believe what you want, but buildings just don’t fall like that.
A building like that has never fallen b/c of fire. Next time you’re in the city look at a tower and try to imagine the size of the twins. Then look at a 747. Just can’t happen.
Not to mention Building 7 that somehow collapsed perfectly into its footprint because the giant buildings next door got hit by planes. Oh sure.
someone wasn’t breastfed..
you’ve been reported to douchebag@whitehouse.gov
Because it’s way more plausible that a bunch of people:
a) Smuggled hundreds of tons of explosives into the WTC and wired them all together connecting a hundred plus floors, and each structural corner.
b) They did this without a single building manager/janitor/security guard or worker noticing. Not one.
c) Not a single one of the explosives experts involved (of which there had to be several dozen) has come forward to say anything since.
d) Not a single person involved in or with knowledge of the entire 911 “conspiracy” has come forward. Note that there would have to be at least a hundred Americans willing to keep this secret, probably more.
Ummm yeah, that makes more sense.
http://shoutwir...e_in_WTC_Rubble
Chemists did find thermite. Don’t expect to hear it on the US news douchebag mcdouchealot.
About as much sense as everything from the buildings being absolutely pulverized. Not a single chair, desk, phone piece of a desk survived. Oh sure, not a demolition!
“Not a single chair, desk, phone piece of a desk survived.”
Right. That’s why they interred body parts and they identified people from watches and rings and wallets and passes. Because some sort of magic demolition occurred that pulverized every steel desk and chair but managed to leave paper and plastic and leather intact.
Have you even watched Mythbusters? They fill a friggin cement truck full of explosives, detonate it, and still find engine parts, axles, and chunks of debris everywhere. They fill a car with C4 and detonate that, and still end up with the chassis here, the door over there, and so on.
There’s nothing magic about a demolition. Essentially it’s just a very, very hard push that occurs within a very, very short period of time. It doesn’t magically vaporize concrete and steel and plastic. It scatters them. Widely.
Tackled from another front, you seem to insist that a “controlled demolition” was responsible for taking out three skyscrapers. Yet thousands of policemen, firemen, and other rescue workers combed the site for days afterwards, and thousands of workers spent months clearing the site.
And yet no one found a single fragment of a blasting cap or detonator. No sign of fuses or det cord or unexploded ordinance. No drilling or rigging typically used to produce a “controlled demolition”.
Three huge buildings, and no evidence at all? Thousands of ordinary people, and no one found or reported a thing to the public or press?
Right.
“A building like that has never fallen because of fire”
Uh huh. I’m sure that there’s absolutely no difference between the building that catches fire because the worker was smoking a cigarette and missed the wastebasket and a jet fuel burning at temperatures high enough to melt the steel supports, and blow away several floors worth of supports when the plane crashed and exploded.
Because let’s get this straight – there was a demolition, but it was a plane that exploded, not TNT.
When was the last building demolition that did not take down the entire building immediately? But even if the towers coming down was caused by TNT or similar materials, it still took about an hour for the tower to collapse. And why is that? Because of the fires inside that melted the supports. Now why is it so hard for you and conspiracy theorists like you to contemplate that those fires were caused by planes being used like guided missiles, and not controlled demolitions?
What about building 7?
No planes hit.
Imploded on it’s foot print.
Was that magic?
Was the worker smoking a GIANT cigarette?
Who cares! Zuckerberg is Jewsish and he’s handling it bureaucratically, as it should be. You’re not even Jewish and you got you sand in…
Exactly, and he gets the last laugh with his boatloads of $.
Kudos to MA for generating pageviews and links with this post though.
You don’t have to be Jewish to take a stand against genocide.
(Holocaust denier == Nazi attempting to be politically correct)
facebook doesn’t allow breast-feeding women to show their bare breasts in their own photos but they allow people to spew hatred. ass backwards. prejudice and hatred are a vicious cycle, perhaps they could use the power of 300M users to break it rather than promote it.
zzzzzzzzzz
get off your high horse dude. i bet the other tc editors (i.e. JOURNALISTS) secretly despise your endless, jejune pontificating.
i’d prefer that facebook stay neutral in this discussion.
AFAIK they only state that they dont want any hategroups which is enough.
If groups with holocaust denial has hate against jewish people, they will be breaking that rule.
Else you would get a lavine of groups and goverments trying to close down groups.
I absolutely agree with Michael on this. FB needs to take a stand on the Holocaust denial issue. Somehow they can hire a bunch of people to make sure that there is no naked profile pictures, but they cant dedicate minimal resources to eliminate the obviously vial and racially charged messages that appear on their network.
Then you should also eliminate the Muslim hate groups, the African-American hate groups, and the Hispanic hate groups as well. Why should any one ethnicity garner special treatment?
And this is so big an issue … why? Yes there’s a load of nutters about, how exactly would facebook censoring them help? Bearing in mind most are probably paranoid looneys wouldn’t that just serve to encourage them?
How about using the same attitude towards violation of international laws. For example the occupied territories, resettlement efforts, expansion of settlements (all major violations of international law), how about war crimes against humanity.
That is something you can make a real difference, vs. something that happened half a century ago in the last millenium. It just looks a bit stale.
Maybe we could all ( or many) stop feeling guilty about something that was extremely horrible but that we cannot change.
And start feeling horrible about Darfur, etc – those things are happening NOW and we can do something about them.
“the entire Darfur thing is getting a bit on my nerves”
“Imma let you finish, but Rawanda was one of the best genocides of all time!”
-Kanye
Wow, Mike, this a totally outrageous position – and I’m very disappointed you’re the one arguing it. No viewpoint, no matter how unpopular, controversial, or arguably insane should be censored.
We’re big boys and girls. We don’t need Facebook to filter our information.
You are familiar with propaganda, yes? The German leadership, circa 1939 were “Big boys and girls” as well. Think before you speak.
This isn’t propaganda at all. Propaganda by its very definition is presented to and accepted by a wide audience. This is the isolated ramblings of a very small group of people.
Think before you speak.
You should try thinking before writing a post.
Besides you have to be 13 before commenting. So check back in a few years.
You’re familiar with the current economic bailout, and the trillions given to the banks at the expense of the taxpayer?
It was all absolutely positively necessary exclaimed the press as millions of regular folks go broke.
Facebook did take leadership. Again and again they stated their position. It’s about speech. You don’t agree. You’re going to do this again?
As a Jew who lost a lot of family in the Holocaust, these groups disgust me.
However, I do not believe that facebook should delete these groups based on their denial. If they begin to have descriptions that include “kill the jews” or other targeted racist comments like that, then they would violate facebook’s terms of service and would ready for deletion.
Denying the Holocaust is someone’s sick opinion. But facebook can’t delete user created groups just because of that. It’s when it reaches the next level (which most denial groups do), that facebook needs to take action.
The thing is that Holocaust denial is an explicit form of anti-Semetism, no matter if the members of said groups post anti-Semetic comments or just stuff like “lets pore over Auschwitz with a microscope and a fine-toothed comb”. See my comments above about how telling people to get over the Holocaust leads to people forgetting about it, which leads to another Holocaust – attempting to deny the Holocaust simply tries to take a shorter path towards another Holocaust than simple forgetting.
What does this mean? It means that Holocaust denial groups post hateful speech, and therefore needs to be regulated as such. There is a very big difference between speech that is critical of art, critical of socioeconomic situations, or even critical governments, and hate speech that effectively says “lets kill the Jews for spreading false Holocaust propaganda upon the world.” Like others have said, this is a private corporation and service where the First Amendment does not apply. There is nothing to discuss or debate against hate speech, no minority opinion that needs to be spoken. Hate speech is pure evil un-backed, un-proven, and un-substatiated rambling and needs to be destroyed as such, because the odds of someone reading this and treating it as fact is a far greater danger than protecting someone’s right to speak out against their government (i.e. what the First Amendment was actually originally about before a few federal judges twisted the words of the Founding Fathers).
Then you must also agree to eliminate the other hate groups on Facebook. There are dozens of them, and it would be a travesty to favor one ethnicity over another.
Facebook deletes most hate groups faster than your head can spin. I’ve been watching for 2 years. They don’t think Holocaust denial is hateful. They think it’s “legitimate political discourse”
Mike, what do you think about freedom of speech?
You fight speech with speech, not by stamping it out. This is not Cuba.
Yea, if it’s a US based group, fuck it… it’s first amendment rights. As for the rabbi? Separation of church and state comes to mind, and people talking about it isn’t really harming anyone, just making those gossipers sound like idiots.
Michael – PC and popular or not, thanks for taking a very public stand on this issue. I couldn’t agree with you more.
Jeff: Mike are you a Jew?
Mike: I am a human being.
Jeff: Of what kind?
i simply can’t help asking this question whenever you post a article like this.
i agree with you hatred should never be encouraged in any form and at any forum. there are zillions of group like F**K Islam on facebook that i think along with the other hatred groups like the one you mentioned should be removed from facebook once and for all.
PS: CAN YOU PLZ FIX GODDAMN DATABASE / SERVER ERROR.
“PS: CAN YOU PLZ FIX GODDAMN DATABASE / SERVER ERROR.”
No hate speech, please.
I don’t know why they would pick a religious leader to post on the topic of morality. Last I checked people are mostly killing each over who’s God is the real god more often than not. Yes I’m an atheist.
Jeff: Mike are you a Jew?
Mike: I am a human being.
Jeff: Of what kind?
i simply can’t help asking this question whenever you post a article like this.
i agree with you hatred should never be encouraged in any form and at any forum. there are zillions of group like F**K Islam on facebook that i think along with the other hatred groups should be removed from facebook once and for all.
What is with your obsession on Jewish people and the holocaust denial thingy?
Free speech has enabled the haters. In this case the “denial people” look really stupid. No one takes them seriously except for you.
FB needs to acknowledge that they play a special role in enabling these groups. Just as FB’s viral loops are a powerful force for networking among friends and brands, the same is true hate groups. Be a leader, FB!
People have to right to say what they say when they want without censorship. NO MATTER how rediculous anyone thinks the topic is. Its not hurting anyone, you dont have to read it.
I think it completley bogus to think the holocaust did not happen. just to know where I stand on that issue. But our country was built on a pledge not to discriminate based on viewpoints no matter how absurd. As long as they are not physically harming anyone.
It is ignorant that these groups exist, but hey at least the feds are able to keep track of these jerk offs somewhere.
my .02 cents
There are exceptions that governments have come to acknowledge. FB is playing an ever-increasing unique roll in the spread of information among people. For FB to let this continue unabated makes then an enabler.
I disagree, it’s a slippery slope when a company as large as facebook starts censoring speech. Would you encourage google to do the same, removing hate speech websites from their index?
Facebook is well within its rights to remove the content, but that doesn’t mean it should.
That is right, who is going to police what type of group or message should be censored.
I’m rather surprised TC is taking a position for censorship.
Well said! MA
“Fighting on the side of the good” doesn’t mean “shutting the evilness down.” As much as everyone may disagree with the opinion, it’s not Facebook’s (or anyone’s) right to turn them off. All Facebook has done is create an open system where anyone can share and publicize their beliefs. They’re just trying to be fair, and being fair is letting everyone express their opinion (no matter how ridiculous or radical it may be).
Yeah, I really don’t understand why a Rabbi would post anything on Facebook while it continues to welcome Holocaust deniers. Private or public, any company should take a stance against people like that.
I am truly shocked that Facebook, which was founded and is still run by a Jew tolerates this.
Finally, this is definitely not the tolerance that the Simon Wiesenthal Center and Museum of Tolerance was founded to promote.
People have to right to say what they say when they want without censorship. NO MATTER how rediculous anyone thinks the topic is. Its not hurting anyone, you dont have to read it.
I think it completley bogus to think the holocaust did not happen. just to know where I stand on that issue. But our country was built on a pledge not to discriminate based on viewpoints no matter how absurd. As long as they are not physically harming anyone.
It is ignorant that these groups exist, but hey at least the feds are able to keep track of these jerk offs somewhere.
my .02 cents
Sure..
However, they have to stop other groups too.. such as:
- We hate muslims
- Stop Islam
.. etc..
I vote for remove all hate groups. Its good to see a famous Jewish blogger defend his people. Too bad we don’t have a famous Muslim blogger yet.
Ironically… Facebook’s CEO is Jewish.
People have to right to say what they say when they want without censorship. NO MATTER how rediculous anyone thinks the topic is. Its not hurting anyone, you dont have to read it.
I think it completley bogus to think the holocaust did not happen. just to know where I stand on that issue. But our country was built on a pledge not to discriminate based on viewpoints no matter how absurd. As long as they are not physically harming anyone.
It is ignorant that these groups exist, but hey at least the feds are able to keep track of these jerk offs somewhere.
my .02 cents
but what happens when they shut down all of these groups? the members of them play up and cause a huge stink, spouting off about zionist conspiracys, which then makes the conspiracy nuts believe them and then before you know it, mel gibson is making a film about some crazy cia/zionist plot against somwhere. (even tho the cia didnt exist in the second world war)
all you do by shutting down those groups is give them the oxygen of publicity.
its a simple case of winning the argument, if you portray the facts to these people they cannot honestly believe the bile that the ringleaders spout. and if they do believe the bile, you can tell what kind of a person that person is.
I presume Mr. Zuckerberg is Jewish. If he was sufficiently offended by Holocaust deniers on Facebook he could have them removed. Why is Arrington so torqued when seemingly Zuckerberg isn’t? Arrington is right, this is ridiculous stuff; indeed it’s laughable, and thus not worth getting worked up about.
I presume Mr. Zuckerberg is Jewish. If he was sufficiently offended by Holocaust deniers on Facebook he could have them removed. Why is Arrington so torqued when seemingly Zuckerberg isn’t? Arrington is right, this is ridiculous stuff; indeed it’s laughable, and thus not worth getting worked up about.
Yeah, I really don’t understand why a Rabbi would post anything on Facebook while it continues to welcome Holocaust deniers. Private or public, any company should take a stance against people like that.
I am truly shocked that Facebook, which was founded and is still run by a Jew tolerates this.
Finally, this is definitely not the tolerance that the Simon Wiesenthal Center and Museum of Tolerance was founded to promote.
but what happens when they shut down all of these groups? the members of them play up and cause a huge stink, spouting off about zionist conspiracys, which then makes the conspiracy nuts believe them and then before you know it, mel gibson is making a film about some crazy cia/zionist plot against somwhere. (even tho the cia didnt exist in the second world war)
all you do by shutting down those groups is give them the oxygen of publicity.
its a simple case of winning the argument, if you portray the facts to these people they cannot honestly believe the bile that the ringleaders spout. and if they do believe the bile, you can tell what kind of a person that person is.
but what happens when they shut down all of these groups? the members of them play up and cause a huge stink, spouting off about zionist conspiracys, which then makes the conspiracy nuts believe them and then before you know it, mel gibson is making a film about some crazy cia/zionist plot against somwhere. (even tho the cia didnt exist in the second world war)
all you do by shutting down those groups is give them the oxygen of publicity.
its a simple case of winning the argument, if you portray the facts to these people they cannot honestly believe the bile that the ringleaders spout. and if they do believe the bile, you can tell what kind of a person that person is.
I don’t know why they would pick a religious leader to post on the topic of morality. Last I checked people are mostly killing each over who’s God is the real god more often than not. Yes I’m an atheist.
Give it up. If you don’t like free speech go and live in Canada. They have laws against hate speech.
I disagree, it’s a slippery slope when a company as large as facebook starts censoring speech. Would you encourage google to do the same, removing hate speech websites from their index?
Facebook is well within its rights to remove the content, but that doesn’t mean it should.
Google does remove at least some of these from index… You example is wrong try again.
Google’s legal department hires law students who are proficient in other languages to review hate websites and remove/blacklist them from there index.
This is getting old. Facebook is a private company so they can do what they want. That includes censoring people for speech.
I presume Mr. Zuckerberg is Jewish. If he was sufficiently offended by Holocaust deniers on Facebook he could have them removed. Why is Arrington so torqued when seemingly Zuckerberg isn’t? Arrington is right, this is ridiculous stuff; indeed it’s laughable, and thus not worth getting worked up about.
You are a good boy. Makes no sense why they are so stubborn about this issue.
Well said!