Here at TechCrunch there’s a daily argument in the office, on Yammer and even on the blog about the supremacy of the iPhone versus the Google-Voice-goodness of Android phones. I chalked it up to the usual get-off-my-lawn-style ranting of Michael Arrington, and assumed the average techie was still like MG Siegler, a total Mac-head who will love the iPhone no matter how bad the reception, how bad the battery life and how many times it breaks and he has to get a new one.
But some reporters– long harassed by Mac fan boys when they’ve dared to criticize the company (read: do their jobs) — are saying a sea change is occurring in Apple fan boy nation. Witness Jon Fortt of Fortune’s recent blog post where he says the Valley owes Microsoft an apology and compares Apple to Napoleon the pig in Animal Farm. He writes:
“I’m sorry, Microsoft. On behalf of Silicon Valley, I’m sorry.
We cursed you, mocked you, labeled you the Evil Empire. Your crime: trying to control the technology world. Sure, we had reason to be upset. During the dawning of the PC era, the Windows operating system made you the most powerful company in tech, and it went to your head.
Your detractors say you intimidated PC makers, crushed Netscape, and tried to turn the web into an extension of the Windows platform. As it turns out, local darling Apple (AAPL) probably would have done the same thing.
Just look at how Apple is behaving today with a fraction of the power you had.”
Now, look at the comments. You have to scroll pretty far down to get the usual how-dare-you-criticize-our-iPhone-lord-and-savior comments. Most of the comments disagreeing with Fortt are pretty well-reasoned arguments that raise good points.
Of course, it’s likely that Fortune moderates its blog comments, so maybe we’re not seeing the whole debate. But on the Sunday morning tech show that both Fortt and I appear on, he argued that indeed the fan boys just weren’t out in the same way they’ve been in the past. Host Scott McGrew argued he too had witnessed a fan boy sea change. [Video below; whole episode is here.]
I remain dubious, as much as I’d love to believe that sub-human behavior like the anti-Semitic attacks and death threats that Barrons writer Eric Savitz had to endure in March 2008 would never happen again. Savitz had the gall to report Wall Street was worried that iPod and iPhone sales might sag. It was hardly controversial considering the stock was down 35% for the year at the time he wrote it.
So, fan boys: Here’s your chance to agree with me for once. Is Jobs nation still alive and well? For the record, I hope I’m wrong. My husband and I own half a dozen iPods, a Mac desktop and four Mac laptops. We’re clearly fans of Mr. Jobs work. But placing a company above scrutiny is bad for business, bad for the Valley and bad for tech.
So sad. But yeah. I hope apple gets it’s head out were the sun doesn’t shine.
Maybe the question we should all be asking–as end users/consumers–is what can we do to influence companies to treat us better? Microsoft, Apple, Google, At&t could all stand to improve the way they treat their customers. It plays right into their hands for us lowly end users to be arguing over which company treats us worse than the other.
This is perhaps my greatest revelation as a developer. Apple, the supporter of good design and open technologies, became the censor of everything that Steve thought bad in the world. Anything that tried to change the balance of power in the iTMS castle was bound to be treated like the character in Kafka’s novel. What application? Damn rude I must say.
Apple jumped from being the cool tech company to being Disney, running around telling us that we couldn’t mess up the magic kingdom. As somebody stated, I wanted an Apple application store that would ease the application install process on OS X, but given what has happened with the iPhone, I hope that day never comes.
So we all move to Android as it develops. And, guess what? Google will treat us the same. Maybe web development, and open standards is the key to ditching these device makers and telecom operators who believe that they own everything we produce. I suppose that open eyes are better than closed. But, the next time I see Gandhi on an Apple poster, I’m going to chuck.
Google or Microsoft or even AT & T will do the same. Even if RIM starts developing music players and gathers more apps in its store like Apple, it will do the same. It can be taken in two ways and I still don’t which way is true (maybe both are half true):
1. Either the company feels like giant and thinks it should rule everything tech.
2. Or we hate giants and love underdogs so much that we think the company is doing no good.
I don’t think there is any point in arguing about the fading of Apple Fanboy… it has been the same with every other big company in the world… especially when it comes to the Valley.
Especially with regard to this blog post by Fortte, I see the guy has written all bad things about Apple earlier…there is a post on “Bad Apple” …who knows if he is not a MS fanboy?
well put
It is absurd to ascribe emotional intent to a large corporation like Apple or Microsoft. They don’t “think they should rule.” They are engaging in simple competitive business. They are seeking to increase market share, control margins, and reduce the possibility a customer will leave so that they can make more money. It has nothing to do with wanting to do X or Y. They don’t care what works – they just do it because it does.
Everyone put your hearts back in your chests and stop hurting your own feelings with these imagined offenses. If you invented a really cool grocery bag, and you started getting rich making them, and then someone else tried to copy your bag, you’d sue the pants off of them, get injunctions, claim patent infringement, and attempt to destroy them.
All companies behave the same: in a way that makes money.
24fc, I agree with your comment. And then I start thinking, why americans want to trust (insurance) companies so badly for their health ( and more) ?
Good for you Sherry, you hit the nail on the head with that one. It’s about varying levels of abuse, and about these fanboyz picking various abusive overlords to add to their own sense of power.
I think Michael Tejada’s comment says a lot.
Most Mac Fan-Boys (myself included) just think Microsoft is lame and sucky — we don’t really have an overwhelming “hatred” of Microsoft. We just think Microsoft products are just poor reproductions of Apple products. We are smug and superior…without animosity.
Whereas Microsoft Fan Boys actually “hate” Mac Fan Boys. It’s just a sad fact. I suppose they must either feel threatened by 8% marketshare or they just need validation of their sucky OS that over 90% of the world uses. Who knows.
Whatever the case… Mac Fan Boys are happy to apologize if we ragged on Microsoft too much. We really feel bad that Microsoft sucks so much. And we’re sorry we made PC feel so bad. We know he means well.. Honestly, we wish Microsoft did a better job. We wish there were more choices out there than just Apple. And as Apple does its power grab… we really wish Microsoft didn’t suck so much. Seriously. Sorry…
True, I actually bought a Fujitsu Tablet PC and wanted it not to suck. It did, and mostly because of various Windows issues. Why did most web developers move to OS X as it emerged? Not because of the shiny hardware.
I actually wish Windows Mobile didn’t suck too! Sadly, I have to begin looking at Android to move services to the platform. Android is not ready. But, Windows Mobile will never be…
Trust me when I tell you both sides think the exact same thing. Microsoft apologists sound the same way – “we don’t attack Apple fans the way the attack us.”
The truth is they’re all the same – just on different sides of the divide.
So close, yet so far.
We don’t hate Mac fan boys. We hate “smug and superior”.
Nothing else to write about?
Newspapers can’t be biased. You guys at TechCrunch are talking about some web blogs taking over newspaper while you chew the same bone for one month or maybe even more?
Better yet start to count how many TechCrunch fanboys are there left..
Next TechCrunch article title: “How Much Bait Would a Linkbait Bait Bait if a Linkbait Would Bait Links?”
yeah, nice try at the flamebait game. next time try not to be so obvious
Perfect
Ok that is a great reply…
LOL basically
Flame on Flamer-FanBoys!
I did not know this was a Flame TC blog.
Issue is “openness”
Apple and Microsoft do not understand. Its okay to power grab. Actually as a business man I love the concept. If one of my products takes off you can bet were going to power grab. But what is lacking from big companies like Crapple and Microshit is opensource philosophy around business methodology. Simply put they need to allow the small guy to play in an open environment. We can see how closing and controlling an API makes people pissed off! If iPhone App store was more open or even better simply allowed a free for all of its apps then people would be much happier.
This kind of thinking needs….must be explored.
I agree with the open-ness part. What I don’t understand from Apple is that all iPhone/iPod devices can’t have a normal mini/micro USB connection. I believe apple created a great leap in hardware and interface design, but that’s it.
I assume that a “more open” OS (not necessarily Open Source, but just open standards, and tweakability) will be welcomed with open arms.
‘Openness’ is only an issue to a small cadre of geeks living in their parents’ basements.
The vast majority of iPhone users (in the 90th percentile) want only one thing… that the damned thing works without hassle. They really truly do not care that the tribe of ‘open’ cannot pump every worm, virus, bandwidth hog, cpu hog etc onto their phone.
Open is very overrated, as evidenced by iPhone’s market share and customer satisfaction.
Deal with it.
GQB
You hit the nail on the head! Well said.
Yes, too much bait. We know you are going through hard times… too many twitter articles, uh?
Google isn’t the magic word either by the way. They use the same power to manipulate with adsense for example and dominate the search market too much.
So they are all guilty- Apple, Google and Microsoft.
Maybe the Apple fans are quiet because the desktop software space, and hence the whole debate, is boring now. Google vs. Facebook, Spotify vs. Lala, Amazon vs. Google… there are much more interesting matchups.
I use a 2007 Macbook Pro because it’s been reliable and ahead of the curve on some important and nice-to-have features for me, but I could see switching to Windows 7 with barely a blink. The only Mac-specific program I actively rely on is Logic Pro, everything else is either cross-platform (iTunes), on the web (Google Docs) or on my phone.
The iPhone would be harder to part with, if only for my investment (time and $) in apps. I’ll also admit that I’ve come to enjoy the iPhone coming into its own as a first class portable game system. Open-ness and censorship are important issues, but I think Apple’s advantage of a critical mass of users and developers will work to their favor for years to come.
Where is MG ??? Doing a MAD TV episode of apple??? lol
Jobs: We will change the world today, here I give you the Itablet.
MG: OHHH MY GOD!!! WOW YEAH YEAH WOW YEAH YEAH
He’s working on his brown zune jokes.
What about those who aren’t fan boys just switching back and forth between what’s in style, who use Apple and have always used Apple because they prefer superior products? Some might say, as is also true in politics, ‘better to go with the devil you know, rather than the devil you don’t’
besides, if certain people do fall under the term ‘fan boy’, then they won’t notice it when the slogan changes. With the cloud computing age upon us, we’ll all be saying ‘two megs good, four megs bad’…
“who use Apple and have always used Apple because they prefer superior products?”
Yeah, except they never were superior and now they’re just spendy PCs with a dongle.
My god you’re an idiot. I’m amazed you can breathe.
Well, you sound exactly like a typical Mac fanboy. Thanks for reinforcing my point.
Having been on both sides of the fence, I have to say the Apple side is greener when it comes to product superiority. Windows is a real mess and has been for a long time, DLL hell anyone?
Since I made the full time switch over to OS X I’ve enjoyed having a much less stressful working environment. Sure the hardware might cost more, but I’ve found that running OS X on it doesn’t seem to rape it to within an inch of it’s life quite as quickly as Windows does and as such in the long term I feel it’s actually better value for money, hell I’d spend the difference in hardware cost to run OS X anyway as I feel it is just SO much more stable.
When it comes to iPod and the Zune, is there really any point in getting into it?
Cheers,
Robert
DLL hell, really ? If you used anything after Win 98 you’d know that that’s not an issue. Windows has many faults but choosing to after DLL hell only shows your obscene cluelessness.
Same with stability – anything after XP SP2 only BSODs if your hardware is failing or if you installed crap like free screensavers. This just shows that Macs are toys for people who can’t use a real computer.
It’s still here. Better, but still here.
[This just shows that Macs are toys for people who can’t use a real computer.]
Oh, the mating call of a true WinDroid.
Go back to your ‘real business computer’ with the 90 thousand FPS games. I’ll stick with my ‘MacToy’ that has NO-friggin’-games [as I hear endlessly, from the 'no-console-for-me, real gamer' WinDroids]
Meanwhile, while WinDroid knobs were destroying more zombies, we made money. We contributed to society. You got a high-score trophy on a web site. BFD. Your guardians must be so proud of you. Well, for that, and for not getting cheese-goo on the shirt they just laundered for you — while you just killed your 1900th zombie, this afternoon.
But, you’re correct WinDroid. Mac people don’t ‘use their computers’. They use software. They accomplish stuff. Life stuff. Stuff other than ‘geek’ stuff. Stuff other than getting scores of 500 million on the umpteenth DOOM knock-off, or over-clocking their CPU to get one [1] frame per second faster on Shoot’n'Kill 4′ while baking a king-size deep-dish Pepperoni on top of their home-built PC. I just knew I could correlate the entire pizza services industry, with the endless stories of home-built PC gaming rigs I must politely endure when I simply want to collect my Capacolli and mushroom. Must be a bummer to your high score ability when an Iraqy sniper blows off your trigger hand. Oh well, live by the sword… FWIW, there must be something deeply patriotic that would let you hone your skills at marksmanship — at your expense, BTW — to defend some rapacious rich guys, who will put more cash in their coffin than you’ll ever earn in your lifetime – who will spend their entire lifetime cokblocking your attempts to get reasonable healthcare insurance for your cheese-goo clogged arteries. That, or just another word that ends with ‘iotic’.
BTW, most ‘freeware’ on the Mac is a hundred times better than most commercialware on Windoze. So, correct again, you’re WinScreensaver is likely to take down your PC.
Mac IS an overpriced PC. It’s OSX vs. WINDOWS people, and we all know Windows should loose. Now leave us hardware geek alone & you misguided “Macs & PCs” go compare the length of your codes.
Why talk ipoo or zero? There are plenty ‘o alternatives without adding to the bottom line of either evil empire.
Yeah, and Windows should LOSE too. (Quit making us Mac fanboys look bad…..)
The Apple fanboys are the product of a huge corporation using modern marketing techniques to move them beyond simple consumers or brand loyalist into unquestioning zealots and rabid evangelists. Things will stay this way as long as to corporation remains and will expand as long as the corporation expands.
Oops, wrong place.
I don’t know what you do, but as a designer, I’ve never noticed that the Mac OS gave me any particular advantages. As a *UI* designer, I haven’t noticed any core differences since Apple lost the look-n-feel suit and MS could release 95.
Both systems have features at any given time that are superior to the other, and they both swipe features over time, from each other.
OS X is nice, but it’s also not the Mac OS, which was a ever-bloating dog on top of don’t-believe-the-hype hardware. Up until the release of OS X, PCs were just plain superior at running applications requiring high memory overhead, the kinds I use all day, particularly under NT. There was no freaking way you’d use a Mac for 3D work, back then, and they “froze” all the time w/big graphic or video files. (”Freeze” isn’t even a word in Windows design land – that’s something only Macs did, all the time.)
As all Windows OS’s became NT at the same time Apple jetisoned Mac OS for BSD/GPL open source stuff with Apple frosting on top, they’re about the same, now. You get the always-advantage that nobody ever attacks the Mac OS (mostly because there’s no point – you’re not going to bring down a big company’s email servers and get on the news, that way), but other than that…some people – about five percent of American users, much lower elsewhere – prefer the Mac UI and are willing to pay more for the same hardware in Dells, these days, to use it.
That’s cool, but also as a longtime UI designer, I’ve noticed when Mac folks claim Apple makes the best UIs, they never serve up any specifics. It’s like thinking you can taste the difference between Coke and Pepsi – statistically, people can’t and they score as guesswork, 50/50, but just try telling any American they can’t tell the difference, really.
People think that because of an ad campaign Pepsi’s been running and reviving since the eighties, in which delighted customers know exactly what the Pepsi is, because it tastes so much better. It’s a bunch of nonsense created by showing only the responses you like, but that makes no difference *even to people who know that.* They still think they can taste the difference. I gave up arguing that point a while ago.
People like Macs better for similar reasons, IMO.
You did know that Apple lost the ‘look-n-feel’ lawsuit because the then Apple CEO, backstabbed Apple to roll-over for MS concessions? Or, are you the typical know-it-all, know-nothing MS-fanboi?
Regarding Pepsi. Up until about a month ago — when Pepsi, yet again, changed their logo, and their recipe — ‘I’ could INSTANTLY tell the difference. So, some people have the ability to tell the difference. Boo hoo.
As for bringing down an Apple server. Are you really so gullible to believe that no one has ever tried? Then, you belong on MS.
BTW, bringing up the FACT that most pcPeople are cheap — and likely to bootleg MOST of their software, and don’t want to pay BMW prices — for a BMW, you’re tiresome MS-Fanboi assertions are actually more meaningless than: “snvbosh goiehgo ; ivhjz”.
Oh. And by, ’same hardware’, do you mean the same reliable manufacturers, or the same SPECS? You are intelligent enough to understand that they don’t mean the SAME thing?
And, as for your silly bragging rights of being a ‘UI designer’ on Windows. That’s tantmount to bragging about re-writing the French language from an Englishman’s POV. LOL
Your ‘IMO’, is just that. Opinion. No facts. No empirical evidence. No borderline polite, reasonably debatable, assertions. Just MS-Fanboism.
@ Adam
>who use Apple and have always used Apple because they prefer superior products
Don’t kid yourself. The worst fanbois were among that crowd. Hardened by having to defend the laughably messy and weak OS 9 and the troubled just-getting on its feet OS X pre 10.2.5
At least personally, I no longer need to point out the differences as Apple has done that for me with their marketing. If fanboy means purchasing everything Apple then that I am not but I do recognize their products remain superior to the competition. The only product I bought directly from Apple was the first ipod shuffle, secondhand I bought one ibook. Fortunately, no one in my family has ever thought Microsoft is useful so there’s always a Mac laptop or desktop lying around.
Pigs may have to learn to fly for me to pay full price for any piece of technology, especially with Moore’s Law being what it is, ‘new’ doesn’t stay new too long. New is interesting to have but for the most part, worthless to have.
should read: “New is interesting to know about but for the most part, worthless to have.”
I just love that there are no “Macs” anymore. There is no Mac OS, and the hardware’s the same hardware I’ve been using for seventeen years, since I jumped ship to PCs. I really love that Macheads spent the whole nineties bragging to me about how studly their spendy Power PCs were, and that turned out to be a dog, so Apple finally just gave up and started making PCs.
I’m not holding my breath on any concessions that I was always right about those old Macs from any of those Macheads. That’s not the way Apple folks are wired, generally.
So. You admit that you know NOTHING about how Apple got reamed over by the whole PPC ‘alliance’ thing.
Well, with ‘partners’ like MOT or IBM, why would Apple ever need to worry about MS?
I agree – I used to to love Apple (not a fanboy though) but the iTunes store / DRM fiasco, and the “our new phone is so cool we’ll make you switch phone carrier” smugness really put me off them. Just got myself a new Android phone.
I switch to Apple about 4 years ago now. I love the design of the computers and the slick OS. I do however hate Apples way of trying to control their customers and limiting their ways of experiencing their computer and/or mobile phone. The company acts like a communist regime and the fan boys “take it or leave it” way of arguing is just hilarious and tragic at the same time.
Today I’m basically at a point where I’m ready to switch back any day a good looking PC laptop hits the market.
About the iPhone I’m going to sell it as soon as a good looking/fast Android phone comes out.
Thank you!
You hit the nail on the head! Im doing the same.
Your reason to stay with apple is that windows laptops don’t look good enough?!
He’s just being honest – the fancy industrial design is really what you’re paying for when you pay extra for an Apple-branded Dell, after all.
Have you actually priced a comparably SPECed DELL to an ‘Apple-branded DELL’, on DELL’s site?
I didn’t think so.
Pete/Kevin
Have you checked out Sony Z or TZ Series? Cost less than Apple (on ebay) + You bet Blu Ray, 1080p LED Screen and a Sexy Design.
Other Good looking notebooks, Dell XPS Studio, Lenovo X Series, Asus, Acer Timeline.
+1 on the Vaio Z series. weighs about 4 lbs, 64-bit processor, good GPU, 4GB RAM, 250GB disk. Slick style look and feel. Think I paid less than $2k for it.
And you’ll do well… resale value for iPhones and touches are ridiculously high. Tell us how the value on your 3rd rate Korean iPhone knockoff (essentially all Android is) holds up in a couple of years.
Resale value speaks volumes.
I have owned a few Apple products and they are just ok. Microsoft also sucks so now I use BB for my phone and Linux on my PC and laptops.
False premise is false.
There have always been raging idiot fanboys, rational well-reasoned fanboys, and people who just don’t care who are fans. It’s a question of what you choose to perceive.
The “press” still understands that anything Apple will get 10x more attention than any other tech story whether it’s pro and con (let’s not forget the raging idoicy of the Apple haters too). Fans of Apple products haven’t changed in a rather considerable way, it’s the bloggers who have changed. But I have seen the pro/con take on Apple flip several times throughout their history.
Generally, I would say too much criticism is an impossibility, but when you get loadmouths like Arrington with a very tall soapbox and a very transparent agenda… I reconsider that notion.
“raging idiocy of Apple haters…” uh, where are you hiding them? just b/c I hate fanboys does mean I do not love Apple. routinely bloggers post articles supposedly about MSFT which do not even mention enterprise software– and pile on praise for AAPL’s Macs. irrelevant, ignorant, complete waste of time, and deserving of a hateful trip to the woodshed.
Ah, yes, you are right and I am wrong. Because you don’t hate Apple, there has never been a “I hate Apple,” “They just sell overpriced toys for idiots,” or “Apple is a bunch of Nazi” comment ever… or I’ve hidden them somewhere. Or because there are fanboys, there cannot be Apple haters… or something.
No, there just aren’t any “Windows Fanboys,” really. That isn’t what Windows users do or how they behave.
I’ve met exactly one person who was a Windows freak the way Mac folks are Apple freaks, and that was when I worked at MS. Everybody else thought he was kind of weird and brown-nosy, talking up MS products all the time.
There may not be as many rabid Windows freaks (go figure) but plenty of Mac haters.
When mom’s book keeper had to write an official letter for her on her Mac, he ranted about it not having MS Word (which it did, BTW) and wrote the letter by HAND. So indoctrinated was he that it didn’t occur to him to use the Mac’s word-processing software, or if it did occur to him he was too stubborn to use it. Unfathomable bias and idiocy.
Oh and judging by your copious comments here, it’s you who are hater/fanboy. Move on.
I admit I don’t like their recent actions but even if Steve Jobs came to my house and peed on my rug I would still use and recommend their products. It’s not a matter of being a fan boy either, if there existed an OS as good as OSX or production software as good as the Final Cut suite on a Windows platform I would switch. There just isn’t.
It’s so nice to have an OS that doesn’t crash and machines that don’t need constant maintenance defraging and malware scanning. On top of this Apple owns the market on production software.
Windows give me that and I’ll switch. Until then I’ll disagree strongly with every move Apple makes from the comfort of my MacBook Pro.
Jason, these kind of ‘arguments’ against Windows carry no water whatsoever. The last time I ‘defragged’ a Windows PC was probably 1997. In all that time I’ve had 2 viruses that needed actioned and maintenance is no more or less than OSX.
I’m a recent Apple convert, drawn to the great hardware and I run OSX and Windows equally, enjoying both, but please, let’s let go of outdated arguments and concentrate on the true differences.
As for crashes? Well, let’s just say I’ve had my fair share of the spinning coloured circle in OSX.
So ask for that OS on ANY Intel PC and you have my purchase! No more True Blue IBM redux, I want my choice of hardware.
dude, I would be pissed if steve jobs pissed on my rug. I would totally piss on an ipod for that. what is wrong with you?
This simply isn’t true. Sure Apple makes some great tools, but if you leave out Avid or Autodesk from the equation you show a large amount naivete. Avid runs equally well on both platforms (in some instances actually performance is better on the OSX side) and Autodesk made most of it’s bones running on IRIX and Linux which one could hardly argue are havens for malware. As a post guy, I can say that I have run on all 3 and they all crash exactly when you don’t want them too: when the client walks in to see a cut.
I always love these flame fests, it is the equivalent of guys in the 50s and 60s talking about the headers on their cars. Mine is bigger/better than yours. I do think that what Apple/AT&T has done with the iPhone is unconscionable, but really good business. You can bet if Microsoft had done it, the Mac/Linux guys would be bitching.
im a long time apple user, and love their products and everything yada yada yada…
but what does it matter that fan boys may/may not love apple less? its not like these small comments or few articles actually change anything
and hey, all of these companies, are well.. corporations. trying to make a profit. saying that apple is an angel was ridiculous even when it was getting beaten up in the 90s.
All I care about is if they end up making the best products possible. Atleast then they deserve the profit.
Oh, and why do people only seem to notice the apple “fanboys”?
there are a bunch of geeks out on the web who clutch to their zunes, pray to the xbox and don’t even believe other Operating Systems exist other than windows
and then there are the new crop of google fanatics (*cough* arrington *cough*), who love each and everyone the beta products that has the google name.
The fact of the matter is, these “fanboys” for any company really don’t matter, as there are always going to be those few people who love everything a company does, to the point where they don’t even give second thoughts to the detractions. All that matters is that these companies exist, and compete to give us the best possible product.
Call me a fanboy, but i believe apple consistently (thats the key word) brings the best products to the market.
Ya, I am consistently impressed by the mighty mouse every time we get a new mac.
/end sarcasm
whenever apple shits, it always smells like roses
fair point, the mighty mouse does suck
I think, since macs are better at the typical web-related stuff (dev, design) it makes sense that we see more praise for the mac on internet forums compared to, say, corporate (often intranet-tied) Excel fans.
I’ve worked in both types of environments and my experience is that Mac wins at the creativish stuff and MS at the businessish stuff so I’m not a ‘fanboy’ of either side, more a best-tool-for-the-job type.
Just my 0.02$
Apple is also consistently more expensive. I think OSX is pretty good, but am i willing to pay double for the same thing i could get on windows? No. Its really just not worth it. And windows 7 looks like it will be pretty awesome, so i think my next laptop will be another windows. Thats unless the macbook drops $400 or more in price.
You’re not paying double. Beef up any Windows system to equal specs and the prices are roughly the same. Remember to include that Windows tax on every machine… you’re paying for it even if you want Linux.
I think the real issue is demographic – the Apple fanboys have moved on to having girlfriends, and the PC Apple-Haters are still trolling forums on a Saturday night. It’s not that they love Apple less, it’s that they have a more love-oriented life. Imagine suffering through Windows 95, 98, ME, and Vista… And then just TRYING to have enough mental stability left to hold together a relationship with a half-interesting woman.
that comment is so wrong. Overly generalizing windows users by saying they dont have girlfriends is way off base. Thats not really what we are discussing here. But for the sake of argument, Windows users vastly outnumber the mac users out there, so it would take a much smaller percentage of them to have girlfriends, and that amount would still outnumber the total girlfriends of mac users. Statistically its way more likely windows users have more total girlfriends and more users means they have a higher percentage of hot girlfriends.
Then you could argue that most business people use windows and therefore have more money, hence more hot women will gravitate towards them.
“I think the real issue is demographic – the Apple fanboys have moved on to having girlfriends, and the PC Apple-Haters are still trolling forums on a Saturday night.”
Close. I said this in response to the “teen don’t tweet” piece the other day here, but the Apple fan base is aging out of the market. Apple luv skews my age (42), a little younger, and a little older. My son’s seventeen and a big geek and so are his friends, my kids both have music players and ever-smarter phones. My daughter loves iPods, my son has a Creative Zen he wanted because it had better sound options and he could use it as a drive and wasn’t locked to iTunes.
Neither of them loves Apple or knows any reason why they should love Apple. They’re the company that makes iPods and iPhones and spendy, pretty PCs, but there are other things to buy and other reasons to buy them. I’m very happy that nonsense didn’t pass down to the younger generation.
I’m two years older than you. But, you haven’t learned anything. I’ve used a 15GB iPod as a portable drive, why can’t you? All that ‘real computer’ geek stuff should have you excited.
BTW, what does ‘locked into iTunes mean? Really? Is it the same as, or worse than, ‘locked into any one of a hundred WMV, or PlayForSure’ schemes? Or the DOA Zune format?
I’m glad your Steve Ballmer form of adolescent control works for your ‘family’. Nothing like paternal petulant enforced ‘freedom’, to engender loyalty. Enjoy your cat’s-cradle.
I’m not sure that the Mac fanboy days are waning – I’m writing this on a first-gen MacBook Pro that will be pried from my cold, dead hands before I’ll switch to Windows, at least at home – and know a lot of Mac users who remain very loyal.
That said, the controversy over the Google Voice app rejection combined with AT&T’s horrific US coverage (particularly in NYC and SF) has created a negative iPhone halo that’s tarnishing the overall brand. It’s hard to love Apple as much as you used to when you’re in the heart of SOMA, have five 3G bars, yet can’t make a simple phone call.
Sorry Sarah. Nice try but you will not find one female commenting in ANY computer related blog. Yet if you go to the mall the Apple stores are filled with females. So there’s a big part of the Apple story that both you, Fortt, Arrington and MANY others are missing. Half of the population is female. Maybe thats what’s really changing. The fanBOYS don’t quite have the influence they once had. Computers have absolutely nothing to do with masculinity yet men/boys seem to think they do. Again count the number of women/girls in an Apple store and then ask yourself why is it only the male bloggers respond to all these articles? Maybe, just maybe Apple is ahead of the curve on this one and the media just does not get it yet. How much money did the 5th ave. Apple store in New York rake in this year, $350 million? THe Saint Regent Store in London? That was not all men buying those products. The times they are a changing and the fanBOYS don’t like it…
I’m a female and I comment. :p
Nice micah,
Now tell us what side of this fence you’re on to prove or disprove Ron’s point…
“Nice try but you will not find one female commenting in ANY computer related blog.”
That doesn’t even make any sense. You’re responding to the female author of a blog post, after all.
“Maybe thats what’s really changing. The fanBOYS don’t quite have the influence they once had. ”
That’s not it at all. Women have been heavy adopters of the iPod and iPhone, but the numbers of female geek pundits, engineers, tech designers, writers, journalists, execs, etc. have all grown over the past twenty years, as Apple’s desktop share has stagnated and dwindled. If more women were buying Macs, the numbers would have gone up at some point.
No, that’s not it at all. Women have been heavy adopters
Do you know why ‘females’ are heavy adopters of the iPod and the iPhone.
Because ‘females’ like stuff that works.
Works without the bone-stroking joy. Works as though a ‘human’ actually has to fscking use the stuff. To get whatever done.
I would say that you are too anti-female, male-centric to get it. But, that might be considered rude.
BTW, if by ’stagnated’ you mean a US marketshare of 2% in the late 90’s to a US marketshare of 10%, recently. I verily hope that we didn’t share the same econ101 class.
And don’t forget Apple’s outright ownership of the laptop field.
Apple adopted to many nonfanatic fans over the years and they are not use to the seclusion that real-fans were forced into by the wintel world. These new nonfanatic fans are now clammering about the proprietary ways of Apple that real fans accepted because it was a wall they were forced behind not self-imposed. Funniest part about all this is the one time relationship Apple and Microsoft had is looking very similar to the Apple and Google’s.
Remember this guy opening his new MacBook Pro? It will never feel like this again…
http://www.yout...h?v=AjS89zUxtgM
Haha, that actually is a pretty funny video
him gawking over the first layer of packaging…
Okay, that is maybe the funniest fanboy video ever. That guy was so excited about his macbook pro!
I keep telling people this, but Apple Luv skews pretty old – my son’s a senior in high school and a big geek, all around, his friends are geeks, they don’t even know why on earth you’d want to love Apple. They relate to the company entirely as the company that makes iPods and iPhones and spendy PCs in pretty cases for rich people.
And thank god for that breath of reason amongst the next generation of nerds.
AppleLuv < msLove
I was a fanboy. In July 2007 fed up with Windows Vista I switched entirely to Mac. (One month later they released a better version of the iMac – I quickly learned to follow mac-rumors to time my purchases). But think of how ridiculous that is. I have to follow a rumor site to gauge whether it’s a good time to buy a computer or not. A few years ago a mac fan boy made the comment that he loves Apple gear but hates the company and I thought it was odd and now I know why. Any company that lacks transparency scares me. One thing Apple has been good on is showing how weak and powerless the press is. Think about it; Steve Jobs had an organ transplant and Apple doesn’t comment on it no matter what story is written. 10 years ago instant news wasn’t as prominent and reporters would be able to keep hammering away until someone at the company addressed the issue. Today, when’s the last time you heard Apple really comment on anything that wasn’t in their own favor?
Plus, you can just install OS X on any old PC, these days.
Tightwad.
There was never any tyranny, BTW – well, some in my space, design. (My GF started a design program in 1997, and they made everybody buy Macs, even people whose parents had gotten them perfectly good Windows boxes w/Adobe suite and whatnot. It was like that in design for a good while.) Just a lot of really annoying attitude over the most conspicuous consumption possible.
Does an alleged ‘career’ in UI design, afford a BMW?
Or are you relegated to a lowly conspicuous Lincoln?
Abijah, one time relationship? Microsoft is the largest developer of 3rd party software for the Mac, and will continue to be as long as Office remains the standard productivity suite (goodness knows why, with all the competition and freeware).
If Apple is as bad as Microsoft was, why aren’t the Feds clamouring to charge them with anti-trust suits? Tech pundits felt justified in slamming a company repeatedly charged with anti-competitive behaviour in a competitive market they just *happened* to have a near monopoly on. You might be able to make the claim with Apple and standalone MP3 players, but the smartphone market, where it has been commonplace to lock down what apps can run? I just don’t get it. Does that make make me a fanatical zombie-like fan boyee?
It’s Apple hardware or piracy, sounds like a anti-competitive monopoly to me. Of course they’d loose most of their stability cred if they didn’t limit themselves to sub-par aging hardware like they do.
“sub-par aging hardware”??
What rock are you living under? Last time I checked the Core i7 (aka Core2Duo in the MacBook family and iMac) is still a modern processor, and the FSB is faster on the Mac platform than most current windows PCs, and the MacPro is using Nehalem processors. PCIe-2. DisplayPort (next gen connectivity, although apple has corrupted it with a proprietary connector right now).
please show me the sub-par aging hardware apple is selling…
Yep: even though it’s the same hardware these days, Apple-branded Intel PCs are still magically better.
Y’all do know that in PC land, Intel processors are for grandmas and real haxxors and gamers use AMD, right? Apple PCs are basically the kinds of PCs real PC owners sneer at.
Snow Leopard.
I think some of the contention with Microsoft was the feeling that their technology was being forced on people. Operating systems shipped with the IE browser only, work places relying solely on MS Office and using Windows, etc. With Apple products, it seems that consumers have a choice whether they want to buy/use Apple hardware of software products. No-one is forced to use an iPhone or Mac OS X. I’ve had a work place ask me if I would like a Mac or PC, but I’ve never had one insist I use a Mac. Many years ago however, I’d certainly come across the “we only use PCs and so must you” mentality in the workplace, but I presume that might be less common these days, and nowadays we do have the advantage of things like OpenOffice, etc. So, I’m guessing these days, Apple is still not monopolistic like Microsoft once was, however maybe that is changing with the stranglehold things like iTunes is beginning to have in the MP3 market.
ALL men commenting here Sarah…. So much for a balanced dialogue.
Just because I have a man’s name does not make me a man. Last I check I had tits and a total lack of dangly parts.
I congratulate you on your non-dangly tits.
Does your ‘partner’ feel the same way?
imho, religion* and tech should never mix.
To get the best of the best, everyone needs to come to the table with clear heads and make logical decisions based on facts, not emotion.
Again, imo, this “emotional-tech” is a huge irony.
.
.
.
*isn’t blind devotion in the face of all opposing facts = “religion”?
**start flames here**
…ok, maybe “religion” is too strong a word…
fundamentalism != religion
no flame wars today, move along
My personal experience has been Fan Boy craziness is not waning. It’s actually spreading, 2 years ago when we got our first iPhone, our friends laghed at us for spending so much on a phone. We were at a recent barbeque and 9 out of the 10 phones there were iPhones. These people are by far not early adopters of anything. The iPhone is spreading among mainstream every day people, and I see more of them talking about switching to macs now that they have an iPhone and see what the hubbub is all about. As much as us techies like to complain about the app store and apple’s draconian ways, the average user doesn’t care about any of it. They just want a great easy to use phone and that is where the iPhone has succeeded.
Buying an iphone doesn’t make you an Apple fanboy. I own an iphone and 2 ipods. But I hate the company’s policies and I know they’re no better than Microsoft, actually worse in my eyes.
Purely punctuation point – Last paragraph – “We’re clearly fans of Mr. Jobs work”. Should be “We’re clearly fans of Mr Jobs’ work”, or “We’re clearly fans of Mr. Jobs’ work”.
Apostrophe police to the rescue!
Isaac
We clearly are…, Mr. Seymour.
A sea change in mac fan boy-dom because a coupla stupid iPhones are delayed? I don’t think so.
Gone are the days of RISC vs. CISC, the Motorola rumored “G5″ and an Apple that sold only computers. So to apparently are the days of the market deciding. Apple’s computers ideally allow users to go about their creativity in whichever ways they see fit. Through the iPhone and iPod however a different and seemingly antagonistic Apple is being seen. This Apple wants to continue to control the devices even after they are sold by dictating what apps may be loaded and which may not. Apps may not be content as in movies or songs, but they are consumed in much the same way. For this reason the buying public knows how to feel about corporations attempting to be arbiters of good taste and gatekeepers of functionality. The Apple that sells the iPhone and iPod with its App Store antics has got to be the envy of Microsoft and the RIAA and why wouldn’t they, when the desires seem so similar.
As someone who’s used Apple products since before the System 7 days, its hard to take and even harder to argue for an Apple that’s beginning to be the antithesis of some of the things I’ve come to like about them. I’m still free to make all the decisions about my Apple computers. That’s got to count for something.
I think some people in the tech world may be a bit out of touch. As disdainful as a lot of tech writers have become over app store policies, etc., none of my “mainstream” friends care in the least bit. None of my friends are tech savvy in the least bit, but everyone of them has aspired to be a Mac/iPhone owner. Most of them are now, and they’re delighted by their new computers/phones. None of them follow the tech world enough to know (a) what google voice is, and (b) that a google voice app was rejected.
I personally have no opinion on the matter. I choose my battles wisely, and one battle I choose not to have is which tech company is less evil. If every purchasing decision I made ended up being a political one I’d end up naked and homeless. There aren’t many companies with spotless intentions.
I started on a Mac as a kid (Macintosh Plus). I moved to DOS when I started comp sci in college. I remained a Windows user in both my professional and personal life from 95-03, building a career around it. I’ve always owned a Mac, but I never really used it until I switched in 2003. I’ve use Macs in my personal life since. I run a IT department. As much as I’d like to get out of the MS World (financial reasons more than anything…licensing is a mess), I can’t. As much as I’d like to move the enterprise from Blackberries to iPhones, I can’t. It’s a different field of play and Apple isn’t a contender. Windows gave me a career. Mac gave me a passion. I recommend Macs/iPhones to anyone who asks me my opinion.
JB – I couldn’t have said it better. I spend my days making money fixing Windows for the last 15 years. I spend the rest of my computing time enjoying my Mac.
I used to own a MacBook Pro until a few months ago, moved back to a PC and I’m not looking back.
I used to be a huge Mac advocate but got disillusioned when a firmware update broke my DVD which Apple refused to fix… This is a well known issue that people complained about in the forum yet Apple who removed the firmware update refused to acknowledge to this day! I’ve been to the Apple store and they charged me 400 USD to replace the DVD which caused dozens of other problems and didn’t really fix the issue which was caused by them… They flat out refused to fix the problem without payment despite my pointing out that it was triggered by their fault.
This caused me to take a step back and re-examine Apple as a whole and decide that it is more evil than Microsoft ever was:
1. Forced paid upgrades – older versions of the OS aren’t supported even by 3rd parties…
2. DRM – ridiculously so and hermetically closed DRM
3. Closed development platform
4. After promising the best Java platform we got the most unmaintained platform (yes I’m a Java developer).
While the UI/usability geek in me finds Apple attractive I can no longer ignore its faults. They were acceptable when I perceived Apple as an underdog but they are not when I am both a dissatisfied customer and they are no longer such an underdog…
During this switching season, Steven Frank, Alex Payne, and Andre Torrez, all tried to upgrade from iPhone to Android, but it turned out to be a downgrade, which put them in a difficult position, either to take back their words or to bear with Android. Just curious what Michael felt about the switching. Happy or not? What are the good and lacking of Android?
And what exactly, other than the app store, is lacking in Android?
I don’t see the app store as a failure, or an excuse for Android being “lacking” personally. It just needs time to grow.
And I’m generally curious, not being sarcastic or evil.
Apple’s only real crime is in the way they are running the App Store approval process. I think they’ll figure that out.
MSFT is unnecessary these days.
a bunch of hipsters beginning to realize what they really are
I have a Mac and a PC side by side in my home office. When I travel, I take a MacBook Pro and a ThinkPad.
Only the truly mentally anemic think these two platforms are mutually exclusive.
Truth is, I can bill on either platform.
Yawn. Must be a slow news day. Keep stirring the controversy pot.
Yawn. TechCrunch is going downhill. And this time Arrington didn’t even have anything to do with it.
What’s a fanboy? Is it anything like a Gameboy?
I think techcrunch wants to bash apple so they can try to sell a handfull of crunch tablets…shamefull really. The real story is that Techcrunch is jealous of Apple plain and simple.
Keep dreaming Arrington nobody wants hardware supported by a blogger!
Wow….There is fanboy and then there is delusional.
Yeh… all the apple backlash across multiple techblogs/fcc/and developers is so TechCrunch can sell more of its NOT YET TO MARKET tablets…
You and fan boy MG SIEGLER should go to a nice quite room and spoon.
Snow leopard sucks.
Windows 7 own anything unix related.
Sorry i know the truth hurts but microsoft hit a fucking grand slam with the 7.
Apple is too busy looking cute and missed the whole point of what really matters.
Thank you for your 15 seconds.
Goodbye.
By the way i been a mac user since the 1998 so my view is not biased at all. Used linux back when it was kick ass command line before ubuntu made it stupid proof.
Just being honest.
Yeah, because the unix using nerds are the market Apple is focused on. Idiot.
Sir,
I did not mention anything about apple aiming @ the linux crowd. i simply stated the difference between the O.S’s available.
And I disagree with your view on me an idiot.
Thank you Jimmeee.
Yup, agree 100% Apple is acting as bad, or perhaps even more so, than Microsoft was at its very worst. I’ve lost almost all of my respect for Apple in the last year. I still have the original iPhone and I’m still happy with it, but I do not plan to ever buy another one. I’m looking at either the Pre or an Android phone for the future.
Well, I’m one of the Apple fan boys who apply the motto “he who loves well, criticizes well”.
And, more: I think no one must stop criticizing the companies he loves. I enjoyed reading Apple accurate critics back to 1997, when I was a tween.
And I adore to see you joining this passionate debate, Sarah.
99.99% of Mac and PC users will never, ever visit TechCrunch, or write on a forum, or know what the term ‘fan boy’ means.
So I hope no one here thinks that they know why the average person buys Mac or buys PC, because we are not average people.
People use what they use because it works for them.
End of story.
Sarah, thinking about this. Animal Farm… The title Amazon deleted from the Kindle ?
Looks like Apple and Amazon help themselve avoiding criticism
Sarah – I can’t say I fully agree with your assessment. I constantly monitor the entire Apple “fan boy” universe though our Apple Investor News and Apple Enthusiast sites. Apple is, and always has been, subject to MUCH scrutiny.
Apple uber-enthusiasts can be the toughest critics of the company on the tiniest of issues (don’t get me started on iMovie or the Address Book bug that deletes your Notes with no UNDO option). It’s like a family relationship: your sibling does something miniscule and it really gets you angry; someone not as close does something much worse and it doesn’t bother you.
Is Apple getting arrogant? The risk is there, but let’s see how these recent App Store issues resolve over the next year. I imagine Apple will move through these growing pains and indeed resolve them.
Comparisons to Microsoft make for lively copy, but are frankly absurd. Here’s why: Microsoft’s arrogance stems from the following equation:
mediocre or poor products + not listening + Ballmer = arrogance
Apple produces superior products. Part of the reason is the tight hardware-software integration. This pisses off a lot of techies who want the entire world “open.” I have no problem with Apple erring on the side of caution re the Google App, nor do I mind that they prevent Palm Pres from working with iTunes. 99% of all Apple users really don’t care about these micro issues
I agree Apple can listen better, and this is one of their big challenges as they grow. Many in the tech community who think they know better can also be accused of the same arrogance.
At last, a reasonable counter, even though I disagree with the position.
All of this, because some apps were unapproved. Really, folks, get off it. Apple is protecting the user experience. Do you know why there’s no passion with an Android or Blackberry or Pre? The user experience just isn’t there.
We don’t worship Apple. We respect them for having the intelligence to quit asking stuffy old men what they think the kids want, and asking the kids themselves.
But to compare Apple to Microsoft is nothing more than, well, two things – some idiot ‘journalist’ who is jumping on the wave of “The MAN is keeping me down by not allowing my poorly written and/or dangerous app!!!”, and needing website hits (TechCrunch).
Nothing to see here, move on.
i soooo agree with mate, they have written like 20 articles about Google Voive app
when u switch to Windows I so won’t visit TechChrunch anymore.
Sorry if I hurt your feelings Sarah. I read your book. It was disappointing at best.
same can be said for your comments.
Dear Jimmeee boy, having read a few of your comments, I can’t imagine any author would be bothered by what you may / may not find disappointing. Frankly, no one cares.
Yeah, both you and the mouth-breather above you were so apathetic you simply HAD to respond to his comment. Nice logic.
It’s nice to seeing some posts lately that aren’t just blind support for Apple (or straight out propaganda) on TC.
But really…. enough with iPhone on TC!
Posted a comment on a different thread mentioning how many hits you get when you search for iPhone. Since when (and more importantly, why) does a smart phone have more posts on a tech website than the worlds largest software company? Not in the mood to waste any more time with this, but I would not at all be surprised to see that iPhone is THE most written about product on TC.
TC isn’t a tech blog. It’s an Apple blog that sometimes posts tech stuff.
As far as Apple goes.. I will never buy an Apple product simply because I can’t stand the elitist attitude (misguided as they are), insane fanboy base, blatantly misleading advertising, and so on.
whatever man, what do u want them to write about Microsoft???? How man BSODs u get??? or Windows Mobile???
I don’t care what they write about.. I just want something besides iPhone.
What would you think if all an automotive website wrote about was Toyota?
I don’t think Fanboys are as much a problem as people claiming anyone who disagrees with them are fanboys of such-and-such. I think you have a genuine case of fanboy phobia. Now no one can comment anymore without prefacing “I’m not a fanboy, but…”
One reason why I don’t comment more often. You can’t like one thing or dislike another without being called a fanboy.
confirmed FanBoy, will be as long as they make insanely great products. That’s the whole point, name one thing out of Microsoft that could be described as insanely great. Beige (vanilla, whatever you want to call it) is no yardstick for the betterment of human technological achievements, and that’s all Microsoft makes.
Here’s one, Windows. The only OS out there that runs on 99% of all hardware with little or no fuss.
99%?????? with no fuss???????
u seriously made me laugh bud
Windows does that as long as you buy it Apple-style in prebuilt form. So does any OS.
Apple “just works” because there is no selection of hardware to choose from. Ditto for software. Wonder what would happen if someone besides Apple built computers running OSX? Or there Apple was able to run even a fraction of the software Windows can..
How DARE you criticize Apple fanboys? How much did Micro$oft pay you to write this bullshit?
(Really, nobody else has made this comment yet? I’m the first one? Well, okay then…)