This is a guest post by Vivek Wadhwa, an entrepreneur turned academic. He is a Visiting Scholar at UC-Berkeley, Senior Research Associate at Harvard Law School and Executive in Residence at Duke University. Follow him on Twitter at @vwadhwa.
I have a suggestion for our President on how to boost economic growth without spending a penny: Free the H-1B’s.
More than a million doctors, engineers, scientists, researchers, and other skilled workers and their families in the U.S. are stuck in “immigration limbo.” They entered the country legally and have contributed disproportionately to our nation’s competitiveness. They paid our high taxes and have been model citizens. All they want to do is to share the American dream and help us grow our economy.
They could be starting companies, buying houses, building community centers, and splurging like Americans. But because we don’t have enough permanent-resident visas (green cards) for them, they’re stuck in the same old jobs they had maybe a decade ago when they entered this country. They are getting really frustrated and many are returning to their home countries to become unwilling competitors. And they are taking our economic recovery with them.
Xenophobes will claim that immigrants take jobs away and blame them for everything that is wrong in their lives and in America. But as TechCrunch wrote last week, skilled immigrants create more jobs than they take away. That is a fact. My research team documented that one quarter of all technology and engineering startups nationwide from 1995 to 2005 were started by immigrants. In Boston, it was 31%, in New York, 44%, and in Silicon Valley an astonishing 52%. In 2005, these immigrant founded companies employed 450,000 workers. Add it up. That’s far more than all the tech workers we gave green cards to in that period.
It’s not only jobs that they’ve created. In 2006, more than 25% of U.S. global patents had authors who were born abroad — and this doesn’t even count people like me, who came here, became citizens, and then filed multiple patents. Of Qualcomm’s global patents, 72% had foreign-born authors, as did 65% of Merck’s, 64% of GE’s, and 60% of Cisco’s. I’m not talking about silly patents filed with the U.S. Patent Office here, I’m talking about WIPO PCT applications — the patents that help our companies compete globally.
Why does Silicon Valley need a foreign-born workforce? Because these immigrants are able come to a foreign land where they face hardship and discrimination and stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the world’s best technical minds and most successful entrepreneurs. They are able motivate Silicon Valley’s top guns to work even harder and think smarter. They add a global perspective and enrich America.
The largest immigrant founding groups are Indian, British, and Chinese. Indian-born immigrants, for example, founded 6.7% of America’s tech companies and 15.5% of those in Silicon Valley — but, according to the U.S. census, constitute way less than 1% of the U.S. population. So do the Chinese, but they contribute to 16.8% of our global patents. It doesn’t take a statistician to figure that these are pretty impressive numbers.
Yes, I know that H-1B’s don’t start companies. And that is the problem. We don’t let them.
Hundreds of thousands of mostly very smart and highly educated workers who could be starting companies are not. While they wait for their green cards, they can’t even change jobs or accept a promotion, for fear of losing their turn in line. If they lose their job, they have zero days to find another one — or get booted out of the country. Their employers know that these workers aren’t going anywhere, so they can go easy on the salary increases and bonuses. Some unscrupulous employers do take advantage of them. And their spouses usually can’t work, and in some states can’t even get drivers licenses, because they don’t have social-security numbers. Does this sound like America?
Unlike the daunting economic problems facing the country, this problem is easy to fix. Just increase the number of green cards for skilled workers. Maybe let them cut the line if they buy a house or start a company that employs a bunch of Americans. My guess is that we’ll get tens of thousands of startups and a couple of hundred thousand houses sold. That is a bigger economic boost than the clunkers program we’ve just thrown $2 billion dollars at.
I’m in the H1B boat..so what will it take for Mr President to actually listen to this??
Obama has to do what is best for the U.S. citizens first and foremost. Jobs are scarce right now and Obama has already told NASSCOM that they should keep out of our immigration debate.
You are a citizen of another country, you should be trying to make your own country a better place.
You obviously don’t know the history of how the US (as we know it today) came into being? I feel sorry for you!
What does history have to do with setting current immigration policy?
The H-1B started in 1990. It needs to end in 2010. Something that has failed should not be continued.
The H1b’s can cry me a river. We need to stop this program now, along with closing our border to the south.
Your mind is closed and that’s why u wish to close border. It seems you didn’t get the point of the author.
Best for Americans and for whole world is to get job and one smart enterpreneur will open a company to hire 10 or more dumb Americans. Don’t u understand this simple English.
Do u know why Chinese flourished past 20 years because American companies went there and opened their offices and hired millions of Chinese to give competition to themselves.
Better understand if any outsider opens a company in your country means a lot for your economy and jobs.
yes,
Stop H1B,
Stop SKILLED IMMIGRANTS COMING TO US.
Stop all companies who have branches outside US
Kick all non americans outside US.
Stop innovation from non american people.
Stop Globalization.
Just ATTACK OTHER NATIONS WITH ARMY. NICE GOING MARLEY.
US needs to stop this immigration problem. There are many whites out of work here and are destitutes. This country does not need to expand at all cost. Many whites are suffering now, losing their jobs through lower wages of cheap H-1B visas. As a result, many are losing their homes.
Not So,
How to boost economic growth without spending a penny: Free the H-1B’s.
>>>> Its a good thought. Undoubtedly, Immigrants promoted US to this position. Rather than chucking out the immigrants, issuing H-1B to the them and recognizing the non-American will sure boost the economy of US.
All H1B does is drive down wages. Plenty of highly qualified Americans can’t even repay student loans because they have to compete with third world labor in their own country.
Why are Americans labeled racist when they want Americans to be first in line for American jobs?
http://www.clasilistados.org
News Flash: We are! And right now, almost everyone is doing it faster than you are.
Way to go. Keep it up, let us know if there’s anything we can do to help.
Dey tuk ourrr joooooobs!
I have no pity for the below avg idiot who lost his job to some way more qualified sap a world away. That’s globalization. Our economic hitmen got fat for the last 4 decades of their cheddar.
I’d rather be serviced by someone who speaks like Apu with an engineering degree than Bubba Gump with a lily white accent and shit for brains.
Btw, have any of you been to to Top 50 Engineering school? I’m lucky enough to go our recruiting jaunts and every graduate program out there make it looks like veritable Indian and Chinese(Eastern European) fest and that has nothing to do with immigration policy. I want the best and smartest. Von Braun, Einstein, Bose, etc etc etc.
Not some moron who went to community college and uses Macbooks on credit and spends his days bitching about why he cant make $15/hr talking on the phone.
Obama is a immigrant for godsake. I thunk he forgot that .
What visa did he come to the U.S. on? Or is he an illegal alien?
Hrishi, what country does Hawaii belong to? Go back to school man.
He hasn’t shown his birth certificate to the court yet.
Oh brother, he hasn’t showed his birth certificate to court yet? Why? So that he can please stupid people who still don’t get it even after numerous times it has been proven legit?
Even if someone builds a time machine and take all those morons back in time during Obama’s birth in Honolulu, they will still find ways to claim it was false. That is the type of people Obama is dealing with. It is a waste of time and money.
1) He is not an immigrant.
2) H1B has little to do with real immigration. The author and I disagree but my experience is they are used more for cheap labor and does in fact cost US citizens jobs.
3) For the record I fully support LEGAL immigration and see border jumpers and H1B workers as essentially line jumpers over the people trying come here legally and/or permanently.
Lamer – on point 2, you are so right. they are used for cheap labor that does cost US citizens jobs. On a side note, my experience has shown that many of them are *outstanding* experts in their fields ( programming, database design) but because they have no incentive to do *outstanding* work, they create artificial barriers to great performance. on point 3, obviously it is a line-jumping situation that for others who wish to come to america.
H1Bs dont work for cheap labor. They are paid the same salary as a US citizen or a Resident.
VJ,
This is basic economics, supply and demand. They enlarge the labor pool, therefore drive down wages. [Duh!]
I doubt he’s an immigrant. If my limited education on the topic, don’t you have to be born in the US to be president?
http://www.traderbots.com
You cannot get enough of good IQ. H1B must be based on an IQ test, and an attitude test [ideas about freedom, and free market] not just complicated paper work.
By the way, India must build its infrastructure, open up its door so that it can grab some IQ from other countries also.
IQ is not all. It takes all kinds to make a great society. Great athletes and artists can have average or even low IQs.
It IS about IQ. The H-1B visa in intended to bring in “skilled” labor into our country.
The problem arises when companies use the program to bring in cheap un-skilled foreign labor, which they masquerade as skilled applicants. This practice is what hurts the american worker by depressing salaries and taking away jobs.
You are right Pete, I’m from India and those who leave Indian shores and go to America are a drain on Indian economy.
Indian government sponsor all their higher education for FREE in IIT, AIMS, the highest engineering, medical and management institutions in India and 80% of them leave for personal gain’s than contribute anything valuable back to the society.
Could anybody enlighten me why a brilliant doctor is more needed in a developing world than a developed country which already has so many qualified doctors and engineers from around the world.
Immigrants always complain, they complained back home and left and now they are complaining about their adopted country.
These stats are all crap, they don’t tell about the stats back home, for how much they are needed in their own country.
So why don’t you chain them up and whip them into working for their country of origin?
IIT and AIMS graduates are a fraction of total Indians coming to US.
Well! let me tell you onething. India at present needs corrupt engineers to keep their masters ( bosses and ministers) happy and that’s why a real brain needs freash air to breathe and broaden his mind. That’s what America gives the opportunity and these smart minds in return gives back them with great companies and taxes and jobs. So far giving back to India is concerned, Ask murthy, Nilekani and lot many that where from India got all this money? How India is florishing when whole world is in recession.. it’s because these smart people are reinvesting back in India or China.
Chankya once told that for intelligent people there is no border as long as they are honored for their intelligence. India is not yet great in this respect as I myself suffered a lot as an enginner while working with corrupt bosses.
I think u got my point dear Sunil.
Dude, I am an immigrant from India and we have contributed more to India than you jealous freaks. The economic boom in India is fueled largely by fund influx by NRIs. Meanwhile, you stay-at-home, sit-on-ass types do nothing but cry foul at us
Wow Basu, U answered well. but why, so many Indians are cry foul about H1. Surely, their life has been hanged on it. May I ask these folks:
* Why do you want to contribute to other countries when your own country needs you?
* How can you be trusted with GC when you ditched your own country for sheer selfish reasons?
* Why should you be considered at par with American when you disregarded your own country contribution towards your life, in terms of studies?
I thought the post clearly says that immigrants created lots of jobs and as an extension doing something foremost for about the issue will create lots more.
H-1Bs and L-1s do not create jobs. THey are indentured servants hired to do as they are told.
And that is dis-honest and immoral; i.e. hiring a “skilled labor” and treating him with disdain and disrespect, and a FREE country like USA having laws that support it.
That is exactly the point the author is trying to highlight, so, USA can amend its laws and stand as an example for a FREE country.
The ONLY reason there is still an H1B program is because our US corporations can’t ship jobs out of the US fast enough so they bring in Indians Pakistanis and Chinese so they could pay them a quarter of what they would have to pay an American to take away the last jobs left. Then, these people ship all their money home so a lot of US money is being taken out of our economy because these people’s families will spend that US MADE MONEY in India, Pakistan and China instead of putting it into the American economy.
When Washington starts saying something about this problem (only during election time, of course), the money from these corporations flies into their campaign chests to quiet them down. Of course though, our “esteemed” elected officials will take up the charge to save American jobs by looking at the H1B and NAFTA until after the election… aaaaand then they are quiet again (zzz).
The only reason this guy is wanting to get a green card is FINALLY, there isn’t enough employment to warrant any kind of work visa (as if there were to begin with) and there is even less work back in India.
I say – Guy, go back to India and start whatever you want to start and let us AMERICANS worry about any kind of “competition” your enterprise might give to us. Since there is no more American industry, I guess you don’t have to even worry about competition with us. Meanwhile, we AMERICANS have to get busy fixing OUR HOUSE by throwing the politicians who supported H1B and NAFTA out of office and rebuild American industry.
Do you mean, the companies should start behaving socialistic and worry about “welfare” of Americans? And pay higher wages even when they can be competitive with cheap labor?
Companies are looking for a government subsidy by having a visa system where they can have indentured servants shackled to the job. The employer owns the visa, not the indentured servant.
It is modern day slavery and should be discontinued, no matter how much money NASSCOM throws at elected officials.
that’s the kind of thinking that say’s, the pie is only so big, so stop taking a bite. grow up dude, we can grow the pie.
We have to grow the pie just to get the multitudes of highly qualified Americans back to work.
Seriously, paul. You’re as dumb as they get. One of your ancestors got their ass into this country the same way as the immigrants now do. So you’re no more “american” than an immigrant working here and then getting a green card and citizenship.
Stop the “we americans” and “you indians” stupidity. The conversation here is purely economic. The fact is that immigrants do bring tremendous economic progress. Having seen hardships back in their country, they work much harder than their children and grandchildren will once they settle down here. They kind of become like you.
And so what if they send some of the money back to their countries to help their families? Atleast they are strengthening bonds with their families that made the sacrifices to send them this far.
So at the end of the day there are still Americans and still foreigners from an American point of view. America as nation prioritizes Americans. Why do foreigners who have lived in other countries feel that America owes them something special? Make your country better. Put your demands for a better life on your government, not ours. We welcome more foreigners than any other country and you’re all still bitching about it. Stop abusing our generosity, the average worker in this country is struggling.
I hope you realize that you have rights and you can effect some results by exercising them.
First, cast your vote to who you want thus elect politicians that support your voice. When was the last time you exercised your right to vote… let me guess… NEVER?
Second, don’t buy any products/stocks/bonds related to companies that do not support your ideology. If enough people boycott, economy of these companies suffer. mmm. let me see, what then happens to your 401k?
Then watch in amazement, as world rejects coke/pepsi like useless products that are bane to humankind and brings US economy to dark ages…. Ready for that?
H1Bs do pay taxes like any other US citizen. Some of them don’t even get to see any of Social security benefits or medicare which they are contibuting to.
May be you should also go back to your ancestor country from where your forefather came to US. US is a land of immigration and everyone has equal rights except the illegal immigrants.
Prior immigration is irrelevant!
The employment based visa should be scrapped.
mmm… how convenient and self-centered. Yes, world’s history should start with your birth and should go per your dictates.
Wishful thinking, or just insanity?
The fact is that those companies will push for H-1 to continue. That’s how it is, those unhappy about it are just screaming… in the empty.
This might be a good rabble rousing for right and far right wingers, their own politicians will be the first to approve an extension of H-1 because they’re in the pockets of big business, just like the leftist politicians.
So my advice is: grow up. maybe you should focus more on sealing the southern borders because that’s where you have a valid point.
haha!
“Stop innovation from non american people”.
“You are a citizen of another country, you should be trying to make your own country a better place.”
Just where did you come from Mr. American Citizen?
Yes, please go back to ‘your’ country and give this land back to the Native Americans. I’m with you on that!
Uh… most of us were born here, in fact the overwhelming number of Americans were born here. The immigrant population has always been in the minority.
There certainly are some good ideas in this post. I like the idea that if H1-B holders (who are already here for decades) take actions that will boost the economy (like buying a house or starting a company, if allowed) they “cut the line” to realizing their dreams of being a US permanent resident.
But in this economy where there is 16% un-employment, I don’t expect any H1-B non-immigrant to come and make changes drastically in a few years. I do think in a better economy, where most the Americans are employed, we should innovate and I think H1-B is definitely part of that equation.
You mention the unemployment, but I see the vast majority of extended unemployment being because of an unwillingness to retrain (including within my own family, so not just theory). Adding more experts, especially in fields where we can’t hire fast enough as it is, will improve the overall structure to where the unemployment will go down.
We cannot allow ourselves to treat the economy as a zero-sum game… all improvements end up raising the average even as they create the churn that inspires special interest groups to fight the change.
That may be the case in your family, but the vast majority of unemployed would re-train in a heartbeat if it would gurantee a job.
That’s the problem with your attitude. “if it would guarantee a job”, who are you expecting to guarantee it? There are no guarantees in life. You will know this, once you ask your life partner for the guarantee to be with you for life.
H1B or not, you are on your own to take best guess (after studying the market), and take a plunge; repeat it until you succeed.
The rate of unemployment should not on it’s own dictate the availability of work visas – unless you assume a 1:1 fit for all jobs needing to be filled and all candidates on the market.
If the 16%-or-so unemployment is made up largely of unskilled or semi-skilled workers then they’re not going to be able to fill a vacuum of skilled and super-skilled workers (doctors, engineers, etc).
In fact those super-skilled might even create whole companies that in turn might be able to create unskilled and semi-skilled jobs.
That’s kinda the whole point of the article, in fact.
Sadly retraining doesn’t always come into it – in the most part the poor guys who get laid off from the car production plant in Detroit are not going to be able to retrain to become doctors and nurses and engineers and lawyers. That’s just the way it is.
A lot of people who were laid off are skilled citizens who were forced to train their Indian replacements.
Martin Sir,
Lets take what you said is correct. Just think …Why American lay off another skilled american citizen for Indian replacements (either you are expecsive or dumb).
The Indian workers here are not on H1B or Green Card. They are Indian companies in India. As long as there is a disparity in standard of living and pay between us/china or us/India or other countries and corporations being corporations wanting to make profits they will outsource work.
That is what happened to all the manufacturing jobs that went to china in the last 20 years. You can cry as much as you want about H1B. But they are not the sole cause for the job loss for US citizens. Look at all the unskilled and semi skilled jobs lost to out sourcing. Now it will be skilled jobs as well.
Look at it this way. Isn’t it better to have skilled immigrants here, buying houses here and spending the money here than export the entire teams to foreign countries. The choice is between lower wages or no job here at all.
For those who want free markets, wake up. This is not a one way street. You want access to developing markets but not have them compete with you for the work and standard of living?
As Tom said, scenario you mentioned is the case of off shoring jobs, Meaning those replacements will not exist in US land anymore, which are different from H1B.
No wonder, your company chose to cut your job, you seem to be jumpy and seem to lack basic understanding.
People who are claiming H1-Bs are only for unskilled labor are highly mistaken. I just received my MBA and many of my classmates were from India and China an couldn’t get visas to work here, so they were forced to go back to their home countries. I doubt anyone would consider engineers with MBAs to be unskilled labor. Does it make sense to educate people here and then send them home to use that intellect? Their educations are effectively subsidized by the taxpayer since every school, public or private, gets some government funding.
The concept of immigrants or even outsourcing “stealing jobs” is silly. If a large group of people can do your job better and cheaper than you, then you either need to increase your skill set or find a new career. I would argue that machines and computers “steal” more jobs than immigrants and outsourcing, yet no one is suggesting that we stop using them.
People complain about unskilled labor coming in and taking their jobs, but I don’t know many Americans who would like to be picking oranges and strawberries in the sun. If they exist, their price would be so high that I would probably have to pay $12 for half a gallon of OJ, and no one wants that. People seem to fail to realize that the reason we have cheap stuff is because of cheap labor and outsourcing. So we can either have cheap things or protectionist policies, but we can’t have both.
I don’t think there should be any major restrictions on immigrants coming to this country. Certainly we should do background checks on people so that we don’t let in people who were murderers and rapists in their home countries.
The bigger issue no one is addressing is that our education system in the U.S. does not produce the highly skilled workers these companies need. And unskilled jobs are all going over seas where companies can pay less.
So American workers are only qualified for unskilled jobs, which are being shipped to China, Indaia and Mexico, and the jobs that are open in the U.S. require highly skilled employees we need to import those same countries.
What sense does that make?
Exactly.
I was hoping someone else would bring this up so I could add to it.
I want everyone to admit that with an work force educated at the level of our Indian and Chinese H1B applicants there would be NO JOBS FOR THEM TO HAVE!!!
Plain and simple. The bottom line is OBAMA needs to recognize… Charity begins AT HOME!
The U.S. graduates far more science and technology workers than the jobs that are created. There are many highly trained, degreed and skilled U.S. workers who cannot find jobs at any salary. Not even interviews!
It’s not an education issue at all!
Though I agree with the end result, I disagree with quality of education.
Education in USA, especially higher education is of high quality. Only premier institutions in other parts of the word can compete with most of US institutions.
However, the problem is COST of higher education in US is OUT-OF-REACH of many US residents.
A lower-middle-class family in India can send ALL of their kids to Engineering/medicine, where as even upper-middle-class families in US depend on education loans to do the same. US consumerism is partly to blame, but not solely.
Ten years ago I was “retraining” H1B holders to do the jobs of my colleagues and eventually me. H1B holders were categorically weaker in every way to American workers. Why did the company keep hiring them? Because they were cheap. They allowed the company to continuously and incrementally lower salaries over a number of years. Most companies, including this Silicon Valley giant aren’t looking for the best and brightest. They are looking for GOOD ENOUGH, and the cheaper the better. I had highly qualified American friends who couldn’t even get an interview, they’re American names obviously disqualified them. Needless to say, the real wages of engineers in this country has declined and so has the quality of engineers thanks to foreign labor.
What it takes the President to listen to this?
All the Indian consulting companies need to first stop abusing the H1-B. Interestingly some high level Indians are destroying chances for other qualified Indians. Email all the Indian CEO’s of large consulting companies and tell them to stop treating foreign workers like slaves. Their greed is destroying chances for everyone else.
Or if you are know any high profile individuals who are working for consulting companies owned by Indians, tell them to stop. They are destroying America.
Don’t get me wrong. I am all for highly qualified Indian and foreign tech immigrants coming into the country. It will definitely boost the economy. But in order for the H1-B issue to be resolved, the Indians themselves need to stop their self destruction.
Reminds me of the “Indian crabs in a bucket” story
Here is a website that talks about all the abuse that is talking place. http://www.desicrunch.com/
Once these issues and these companies are kicked. Legit companies like Microsoft, Google, Intel and others will be able to enjoy steady stream of qualified tech workers.
Probably Techcrunch should write an article exposing all the culprits who have been abusing the H1-B.
H1B must be based on an IQ and attitude test. The later must include attitude towards free market and freedom.
We must be free to serve our corporate overlords in the free market. Anything else is Unamerican!
IQ is not all. It takes all kinds to make a great society. Great athletes and artists can have average or even low IQs.
You’ll need something serious to prevent fraud and cheating, skills in which many, if not most, Indians have acquired master’s-level proficiency.
The stories my Indian friends tell me about cheating in their college years amaze (and amuse) me.
I am Indian. Indians are intelligent. Are you afraid of smart indians taking away jobs from whites?
Nope … and thanks for leaving out all the blacks… we love you too Gunga…
I disagree with the authors premise that H1Bs will make the US economy improve. H1Bs were invented in an age when the only way to train a worker was to bring them here. Instead, US companies should staff their international expansion and cost reduction efforts through the development of foreign subsidiaries or branch offices. Don’t hire the outsourcing firms… Build your own shop.
The inference that Americans are too lazy to innovate and require a flood of foreigners to save it’s economy is simply not true. The author (a Foreign Zionist) is self-serving and comes across a bit pompous in his postulate.
The US should continue to invite the best and the brightest to become US citizens, but opening the H1B floodgates will only create more dependency on a government groaning under the weight of ever-growing liberal entitlements. H1B in hand does not necessarily create a societal contributor.
Get your facts straight. H1B was invented as a stop gap when EBGC processing times started stretching into years. It used to be that an employer would simply sponsor a GC fir anyone they wanted to hire from abroad, and it was a good thing – no indentured labor, only valuable people were brought over since others didn’t justify the hassle. Then the process slowed down and became an obstacle in the situations where you needed to fill a position Right Now. So H1B became a way to get that needed person over to his new desk in the US for the period while his GC was going through the bureaucracy.
And then came the bodyshops.
Independent of the H1B history, my point still stands. In most cases it’s “better” for companies to establish operating entities in foreign nations than bring foreign nationals to the US. Leveraging talent where it grows is good for everyone: Foreign nations retain talent and grows it’s future business and political leadership which matures that market for future business; US companies get better at distributed management and international HR, finding and leveraging value (either low cost, best practices, best ideas) wherever it lives; and indviduals are able to contribute in their families and local cultures and infuse their business learning into local problem solving.
I like this proposal.
It seems you can think clearly, unless you are in a hurry to reply. Kind of advise… throw your first instinctual response out the window, and present us your second thoughts.
“The author (a Foreign Zionist) is self-serving and comes across a bit pompous in his postulate.”
That sentence takes away all credibility from your post because you do not know the definition of a Zionist and calling someone else “pompous in his postulate” is the pinnacle of douchebaggery while being ironic.
Love,
An Immigrant
I thought Nick nailed it.
Nicholas Thomas “The author (a Foreign Zionist) is self-serving and comes across a bit pompous in his postulate.”
Hahaha, That comment is so stupid and funny. I guess this is one of the reasons why we need to import educated people into the US. To offset fools like you.
hahaha im with you guys on that one. we have so many retards out here its a disgrace to the rest of us normal americans. we have to pickup the slack for all of them when we leave the cuckoos nest and travel abroad
We have enough immigrants in this country. It is true that immigrants come to this country. However, time has changed. This country is full. You stay in your country and make it better. There are too many unemployed people here. Many qualified people cannot find jobs and are now destitutes. So please ET, GO HOME.
lol… one retard’s parents crossed the border many years ago when it was “open” and now all of a sudden you have the right to close it down on the rest because “its full”…. a bit ironic
Why is it ironic. If you go to a movie theatre and there are no more seats, why would it be unreasonable to stop selling tickets so more people won’t come in and sit on the people’s laps.
I suppose if you got there after all seats were taken, you would say to the people who were seated there already:
“isn’t it ironic that you came in here and now you want to close the door after yourself”
or you might say something really stupid like:
“…when it was “open” and now all of a sudden you have the right to close it down on the rest because “its full”…. a bit ironic”
are you really comparing the queue of watching a 2 hour movie at a theater to the permanent resettlement in another country? at this point i dont even want to explain it anymore, itll do you no good anyway.
Logic doesn’t hold well.
In theater, it is not the patron who has voice, but the management and ultimately the governing laws. In comparison, US government is doing just that. Let others manage crowd for you, as you seem to be comfortable with it.
REDUCE H1B = INCREASE OUTSOURCING.
INCREASE H-1B = INCREASE OUTSOURCING FASTER
Here in Congo, we stone illegal immigrants.
Even without stoning, Congo seems to fare quite well. Check out http://en.wikip...go#Human_rights.
No thanks! I pass this seemingly wonderful opportunity to migrate to Congo!
Appeal for Sympathy?
I have a question for all the H1B’s from India, how much of your salary do you send back home to your families? I wouldn’t mind so much if you were using your salaries to help our economy, but why should we be helping the economy of India with your pay from U.S. companies. Also if you look at the grammar and spelling in most of the posts from the people from India, you should learn to speak English if you want to live in this country, if I came to live your you god forsaken hell hole of a country, I would learn to speak Hindi, or monkey or whatever language of the province I lived in. Do you actually have a national language?
It’s okay if Indians make mistakes in English; it still not their primary language.
But you!? Here’s your report card:
It’s H1Bs and not H1B’s
Fourth line : Need to have a ‘?’ after companies
penultimate line : live in and not lived in..
You bull..run away from America!
Vivek has been going around the country spouting his purported research about the number of patents filed by immigrants, and the statistics are built on the most faulty of assumptions.
Basically, they took a listing of the names on patents, and ran it through a “Foreign-sounding name filter”. Any patent with a foreign-sounding name was given credit as an “immigrant patent”. It fails to take into account that many of these foreign-sounding names are multi-generation Americans.
But what should we expect from someone like Vivek? He’s the first one to claim that H-1B opponents are acting on emotion rather than facts, but it seems to me that facts like his are pretty faulty.
clearly you haven’t filed a patent. one of the things that my patent attorney has me fill in the patent declaration form is the country of citizenship of the inventor. I am guessing that would provide an easy way to look up statistics on how many patents are filed by non-us citizens with the USPTO
No. I say ban H-1Bs and raise taxes for companies that outsource jobs. I rather save the American lifestyle than innovate.
That makes no sense, the only reason why we have our “american lifestyle” in this global economy is because we innovate.
(well that and the fact we didnt have ground war in WWII)
Battle of the bulge? Normandy? Those weren’t ground wars?
They weren’t fought on American soil, and American infrastructure wasn’t destroyed.
you poor redneck
Ever heard of the wise saying “don’t feed the troll”?
trolls get way too much to eat on techcrunch, huh?
And how did the American lifestyle came to be? It’s an immigrant nation. It’s culture is based on a mixture of cultures from all over the world. If you want to save the culture and lifestyle you need to have immigration.
But I guess what you mean is that you prefer to live in a place where nothing ever changes… But no innovation is exactly how to kill the American lifestyle. Think about it for a second! (Funny that I need to explain this to a TechCrunch reader.)
You wrote:
“It’s culture is based on a mixture of cultures from all over the world. If you want to save the culture and lifestyle you need to have immigration.”
Are you saying that the people in most diverse country in the world do not reproduce? What a silly thing to suggest!
No, I am saying that the USA always has been changing due to new immigration. That is part of the USA’s culture. We’ll lose quite a bit of it if we shut our borders and only reproduce from now on.
Culture/Lifestyle etc. isn’t static.
There is no society as diverse as the U.S.A. Remember that. NONE!
you’re living in a bubble man… lol. the US isnt the only first world country homeboy.
also, there is no society that kills each other and takes everyone else in the world with it as fast as the U.S.A. NONE!
“I rather save the American lifestyle than innovate.”
I just choked on my breakfast.
And now I just can’t stop laughing.
In the eyes of >80% of the worlds population “the american lifestyle” amounts to:
- Spending more than you can afford.
- Honoring stupid jocks more than smart guys.
- Starting wars all over the world to ensure the american economy stays alive.
1995 I started my immigration process.
2003 It was rejected.
2009 I am happy as can be that I’m not “one of those american assholes”.
Anti–
You’re absolutely right. I’m a US citizen and I think what we’re doing to the world (on so many levels– immigration, war, economically) is a disgrace. For some reason, the increasing number of idiots in our country are a disproportional amount of credit for America’s economic prosperity throughout its history, which they contributed very little to.
I attribute this issue to H1B.
STOP H1B! STOP IMPORTING IDIOTS TO US – WE HAVE ENOUGH OF OUR OWN.
Typo fix above: For some reason, the increasing number of idiots in our country are TAKING a disproportional amount of credit for America’s economic prosperity throughout its history, which they contributed very little to.
I couldn’t agree more…we need economic simulation any place we can get right now…good out of the box thinking here.
Obama has instructed USCIS and DOL to increase RFE’s and denials of extension of all H-1Bs.
Finally we have a president who cares about the voters who put him there, rather than the corporations who benefit by bringing in cheap indentured labor.
Amen.
These people are ambitious motivated people that want to make a difference. Our country has always thrived on the few Entrepreneurs who strive to better themselves, and in the process the world around them.
Free the H-1B, Free the Economy, and we can keep Free from pathing down the road to serfdom.
H-1B’s are not sponsored by companies for their entrepreneural skills, they are sponsored because they are willing, or tricked, to be indentured servants, which is just like slavery. The practice should be stopped.
You’re mad man.
Slaves are people who don’t have a choice. A worker has a choice to accept an H-1B offer or to remain in their country of residence. If you accepted an H-1B to come work in the US and you want to continue working in the US and the only way you can do that is to accept another H-1B position, then that worker is still given a choice.
Slavery? Absolutely not, one has a choice at all times to leave and return to their original option. Willing and at-will employment with a conditional short life cycle of commitment if wanting to stay in the US? Yes.
There are trade offs like every important decision one must make in their lives.
Don’t exaggerate in your attempts to over sympathize.
You’re a madman!
Giving a slave a choice to be a slave or not to be a slave does not change the fact that he is a slave.
If a H-1B choses not to work he loses his right to be in the country. That is very much enslavement!
come on. it’s not slavery. this is WAY too much hyperbole. next come the hitler comparisons.
that said, h1-b does seriously suck. i work with a guy that’s really good, went to a top-notch school in india, and is far more competent than most of the people i’ve worked with. yet, he’s pretty much forced to go back to india to start a company, because he’s tethered to a salary that’s way too low for his skill set, and can’t work for another company.
the corporations love h1-b’s because they get cheap labor that also drives down wages for other workers, and they don’t have any long-term commitment to the h1-b worker. of course, corporations are also responsible for hiring illegal, unskilled labor that comes flooding across the border.
will it ever end? no. politicians directly serve their corporate benefactors first and foremost. not until you see public-financed elections, anyway. and that’s about as likely to happen as me growing a third arm. which would be way useful, by the way.
Here’s my personal experience as an H1B “indentured servant”: In early 2006 I was able to choose between five on-the-table job offers, none of them for less than $95k. This past June I was laid off (as part of a general downsizing by my employer due to the economy) but after a six week job search I had two offers, both for over $110k, and was in the 3rd round of interviewing with a top three Internet company. I have just settled into a new job where I expect I will be able to make at least $135k this next year.
Obviously I do not equate my situation to “just like slavery” and I was hardly “tricked” into accepting these job offers. I am an experienced software engineer with an in-demand skill set and know my market worth.
However, inasmuch as I have had to restart my green card application process with my current job and my wife (an experienced teacher) cannot legally work in the US until I have my green card, longer term we would have to reconsider whether we stay in the US if it takes too long to come through. In the interim we are not making purchases (e.g., a house) that US permanent residents could easily afford on our income because of the uncertainty of our status. Instead this is going towards savings that we will take with us if/when we have to leave the US.
You forgot the part where you won the lottery and the nobel prize in the same week.
You are in fantasy land! If you were so good you would have self sponsored on an O-1 visa instead of wasting time here commenting on lame tech crunch article.
i call bu!!sh!t .
How about me? Whenever I look for a job I have to choose beteween 3-4 jobs. My most recent position pays 200k. Oh yeah, I’m on a H1b.
Canadian liar.
Candy, have you read the requirements for an O-1 visa? That applies to Yao Ming and Nobel Peace Prize winners. $135K is not that much in the grand scheme of things. You don’t seem to understand the salary spectrum in this country, yet you will wave your birth certificate around like a flag… that is amusing.
Candy, you clearly believe that anyone making around or above a $100k is a savior, eligible for the exceptional talent/achievement visas. Perhaps this is a reflection of your own career.
I’m in exactly the same situation. Self sponsored O-1 visa? Google that before you talk out of your ass.
I’m here on an O-1. You definitely dont need a nobel prize/turing award/fields medal to get an O-1
A phd from a top US grad school (which usually implies a strong publication an record and a bunch of patents) and working at a top-notch place is usually sufficient.
An O-1 also does not give you much more benefit than say a H-1. You’re still tied to your employer and your spouse still cannot work.
Blind to facts and full of jealousy….good going
About the house: you’re lucky, it’s way too early to buy. In the long run this may save you so much money that it will be your single largest savings over the next 10 years.
Give this market another year and you’ll be able to get a house for half what you’d pay today. Mark my word. Prices are going to plummet.
In 2009, you don’t have to live in the USA to start a company there. Additionally, even if you start a company in the US and register it in Delaware, for example, there is no guarantee that your company will have a great US-based added value, even if you pay taxes.
On the other hand, US-based companies get better work from people with H1-B visas. It’s called the sword of Damocles. Why change that?
What this man forgot to tell you is companies prefer H-1 as they are 50% cheaper and work like a bonded labor for a decade till they get their green card, not that they are brighter than the locals except for a very small percentage. This is the key to H-1B and L-1 visas.
It is Indian leaders responsibility to provide opportunity for Indian entrepreneurs but their focus is stashing their bribes in Swiss bank, and nepotism. America needs to take care of its own first, the goddamn slave shops like Qualcomm can move to India and stop strip mining the American market for business by selling DOD funded core technology like CDMA.
Damn its time Americans spoke up. As for Mr Wadhwa I bet there is a better replacement for him in India willing to work for 1/5th of his salary minus is self serving pomposity.
Mr. Krishna,
Your name sounds sufficiently Indian. So, What are you? an American, Indian, or an American born Indian? At least from your use of the language it does not seem like english is your native lang (Work like a bonded labor?)
Proper use of English? Can’t be an American!
Dudes I am so tired of the whiteys turning it into a race debate, and my English.
This is about the principle, and each country having a duty to its citizens, and economy.
It is true America is a nation of immigrants, and long back US was “Indian territory” or Injun territory before the White Man came here.
The American Indians are decedents of ancient Indian Vedic people who migrated from India to Polynesian Islands and then to Central America and then to North America. DNA evidence proves that and white men were living in caves at that time in Europe.
So if it turns into a racial debate Indians have better ties to this land than white folks.
So stay off the damn race and stick to the issues. I am sure you know what my race is by now.
LOL… super reply Krishna!
btw.. what does NA stand for ..?? not applicable?
So Krishna effectively told us he’s a racist. Go back to India then. Racism still dominates in the culture there. It has no place in modern America. Go home.
Don’t go racial on us, Krishna.
First off, I’ll accept any man’s self-classification.
But my perception has always been that Indians are just as “white” (and just as bright) as the palest Boston honky. Even if your skin is dark as night, as far as I’m concerned, if you have any “race” whatsoever, it’s white. My black friends agree.
Aside: I don’t know where people get off calling Indians “Asians”.
So put your dukes up, you Indian cracker!8-)
cos India is in Asia..tndal!
Reading through this thread. It seems only the people people from India have consistently thrown racial epithets towards so called ‘white’ people. I haven’t read any racially motivated comments from the American side. We have only been referring to citizens versus non-citizens. Seems like the Indian contingent here is much more racist than Americans, yet they keep accusing Americans of being racist even though we have a much more diverse country than they do.
Seems to illustrate the entrenched anti-white racism held by quite a few Indians. We’re a multi-racial country and we’re not all white. Quit calling us whitey all the time. I’m of multi-ethnic heritage.
The Indians seem to be assuming that it is only whites commenting here. There are many black people commenting on this blog to end the H-1B.
If there is an issue here with a shortage of workers, which seems absurd at a time when the US is estimated to have 16% combined unemployment and under-employment, then let’s address the core issues of education and the cost of college tuition. Frankly though, I don’t think that’s a problem. MSFT has laid off 5000 people, Yahoo has laid off thousands, even Google has shut down offices and laid off people–some of whom I personally know still don’t have jobs. So there are plenty of skilled people out there, and anyone claiming that there is an emergency and H1-B Visa caps must be lifted has a different agenda.
How on Earth would increasing the supply of workers in an environment of high-unemployment bring back the economy? It would only further strain public support systems and hold down consumer spending and demand.
To fix the economy we need to put unemployed people back to work, not bring over cheaper replacements.
How long is TC going to continue to fan the flames of this propaganda? You’re becoming a mouthpiece for an industry that wants to replace well-paid workers with bonded servants who work for less and can’t change jobs. Cutting costs by completely undermining the source of demand in our economy is short sited and results in a continual economic death spiral.
I never thought I’d say this, but I’d rather TC go back to 10 Twitter posts per day than continue to be the mouthpiece for this misguided, and frankly stupid, agenda.
appcoder,
The gist is, free the H1-Bs so they can start companies and companies create jobs…. I know a few who are willing to hire 4-5 tech US people right now if they are given the green-card.
Anyone from the rest of the world who wants to come to the U.S. can make the same claim that they will open a company and hire 4-5 people if they are given a green card.
There is already an investor visa for that. Put your money where your mouth is. What say you?
Do you know how much money you have to put in for an E2 Investor Visa?
It’s $100k MINIMUM, and really they want to see more than that.
Aside from the fact that many people are not going to have that kind of money in cash floating around, there is very little need to raise such money to start a tech-orientated company. Look at all the “no need for VC round” stories here on TC.
And what percentage do you think will actually start companies? 5%? How are the other 95% going to contribute to solving unemployment?
If instead of 100 you let 1000 to come in, you will have 50 new companies instead of 5.
Agree, and as an Indian i know for a fact, that Indian companies pay a suckers salary and low level of growth, the reason they want h1b opened up is for Indians to come here and work like slaves for the Indian companies in SF
Oh, there are workers . . . but we’re talking about H1b workers with particular skills. An out of work program manager making $140,000 running IT programs and projects is not qualified to code in the technology he or she manages . . . and staff may make $40 or $50,000 less than their manager even if a citizen.
Krishna.. First change ur name u redneck.I guess your talking lame cos your mother gave you birth in America.And I am sure that is ur biggest achievement in your life.
Why didn’t u send back Einstein/James brown to Germany.America is buildup by talented immigrants.
It’s not for you to claim when the most you do I’d smoke pot and watch tv all day.
If all immigrants go,and I will pray that happens,you Americans will come begging yo our grounds.
And we will make sure u have the same sediment treatment.
Never forget .It’s give and take .US isn’t doing a favor to anyone.Suggestion for ,become something prominent in your own life,before telling others to leave.
I meant Van Braun…not James brown in my above comment
..which is akk scientists etc
Other group which does not start companies which potentially may compete with American corporations — returning “senior H1-Bs” move back via inter-company transfers and carry the jobs of 100s of people who would otherwise be employed there in America.
There’s a lot more to immigration than it’s impact on the economy.
You wrote: “…returning to their home countries to become unwilling competitors”
What the heck does this mean?
Please explain how an engineer building a bridge in India compete with a U.S. based engineer building a bridge in Florida. Does a doctor in India compete with a doctor in California.
The proliferation of the internet and transmission has brought almost all competition from a global level to near local. (Exceptions typically are extremes involving physically taxing labor and commodity costs.)
Candy, have you heard of outsourced architectural engineering? It’s also starting to happen with legal practices in some specialties like Intellectual Property Law.
A lot of experts do their training in the US, get certified in the US and then provide their services to the US from their home country where they are able to leverage their US pay in their country of residence and typically live with a better standard of living as a consequence.
If that worked so well, why then would anyone use any U.S. companies for anything?
Outsourcing sounds good but logistics have a way of interfering with the conceptual.
Most outsourced projects have failed miserably.
The volume of outsourcing has been increasing at at least 15% and at most 40% – year on year in the last decade. 15% is this year – when the world actually shrunk economically. The average is about 30% – year on year – just mind boggling.
Logistics are a nuisance, and we will overcome -like we increasingly did in the last 10 years.
I have a dream today! I have a dream that one day we live in a world where we will not be judged by where we live, but by the quality of our competencies. And that day in increasingly becoming imminent.
95% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
Outsourcing has been decreasing as the failure rate increases.
Why do you think TATA and Satyam and Infosys are laying off thousands in India? It ain’t because of more outsourcing, baby.
This is like saying if McDonalds can offer burgers for $1 why would anyone pay $10 to buy the same at TGI’s.
Silly question.
If the public finds out the $1 burger is made of cow manure while the $10.00 burger is made of USDA grade A, then people will still chose the $1 burger. Right?
Candy,
Once again, logical arguments are not on the agenda, I see.
95% of statistics are made up on the spot. I would count your statistic among them.
Exactly. You obviously missed the sarcasm.
Can’t even higher them anymore. Not only is the unemployment going against them, I am not going to do the paperwork that is now required.
H1B the moment you leave you existing job, you are out of compliance, there is no grace period, you are simply not qualified to work and you are in the country illegally.
Its a crying ass shame, but then again I have had NO problem finding skilled US engineers and I have hired almost a hundred folks this year
Opps. hire them…
I need green card would any nice american girl would like to marry me?
wrong forum ..lol
Under used skill set will code for <$100k
I’ve been through the US visa process twice now, going with the O1 visa rather than the H1-B and I think we really need to be looking at whole new classifications of visas to spur innovation.
Right now there’s the H1-B which gets you mid-level people in big companies. O1, which is damn expensive, difficult and not suited for young entrepreneurs whose greatest achievements lie in front of them. And finally you’ve got J1 visas if you want to pretend you are an intern and get in for 18 months.
There is no visa class for those who are likely to be the next generation of innovators and adapting the H1-B (which is good for its purpose) isn’t going to cut it. The US is building bureaucratic border fences to keep its future out.
Good points and well said.
You wrote:
“young entrepreneurs whose greatest achievements lie in front of them”
This potential includes the entire rest of the world who want to come to the U.S.
Should the U.S. give a visa to any person who claims his or her greatest achievements lie in front of them? That would be billions of people!
Before a visa is issued for any category (H1-B, J1, O1 etc…) there is certain criteria that anyone applying has to meet. I am sure in this case there will be certain requirements, for example: maybe internationally accepted publications (papers, articles, R&D).
That will reduce billions of people to a handful. Within that handful, its up to the “US” to accept who we think can make a difference.
Paul Graham already proposed such a class of visas:
http://www.paul...oundervisa.html
H-1Bs are hired to do as they are told, not to start companies.
If a foreigner want’s to start a company in the U.S. there is already a path. They need get an investor visa, not an employment based visa.
For an investor visa you need to be able to invest between 200 and 500k of your own money. This isn’t a visa that’s going to spur an entrepreneurial class.
Ben,
An investor visa needs $1m…. do tech companies really need $1m to start and hire 10 workers from the word “go” for one year? Get your facts right
Lets see…
At $100,000 per exceptionally gifted worker times 10 workers.
Hmmm… That’s exactly one million dollars in salary alone, and I havn’t even signed a lease yet!
BTW, what other facts do I need?
Vivek Wadhwa…yeah with a name like that your position is not biased one bit. Seems to me that the H1B issue is promoted entirely by people who will benefit financially from it’s increase.
You all make H1B guys sound like repressed geniuses. And sure a couple of them probably are. But 99.999% of them are no better than the American counterparts. And all this bullshit about how this provides an opportunity…yeah right, the people benefiting most from H1B labor, are the corporations that get to save a ton of money by getting their indentured servants at half the cost.
The thing is, people with H-1B don’t buy houses therefor they do not pay for many of the taxes that American citizens pay for.
I’m not saying they’re better, I’m just saying that there are so many taxes that they don’t have to pay which balances out their lower salary. Then again of course the government would owe more Social Security Checks.
There is a plus and a down to everything. Just don’t start the debate on Techcrunch.
Name one tax that you pay and I don’t (I’m on H1-B). I know plenty of H1-B peeps who own houses.
Alex, I am not taking sides here but how about backing up your claims with data? At least your ‘99.999% of them’ doesn’t sound like trust worthy data.
How about the absense of any product produced by an H-1B. Would that prove that H-1Bs add nothing to the economy but cheap bodies?
Name one product invented by an H-1B. And I said H-1B, not foreigner, or foreign born.
Why do H-1Bs think they can attach themselves to the accomplishments of non H-1B immigrants?
Why does not anyone just take a quick look at the historical job and wage conditions in the United States? I have linked to what I believe are the most pertinent statistics on my blog .
We
Need Tech Immigrants? You crazy?
Real wages have been flat for longer than most of us have been alive. Costs have skyrocketed. Job creation is a whopping net ZERO for the past ten years. How could anyone logically argue anything except that H1b and all immigration of educated people should be completely cutoff until the U.S. can start to overcome these factors?
Michael, first you let Sarah post this biased view, now a “Guest Speaker.” Perhaps I expect too much from you. Maybe I should be watching the McLaughlin Group roundtable instead. Are you one of us? We all want success like you have. Why do you not hire someone with critical analysis skills who will one, approach the important tech immigration issue in an analytic fashion, and two, someone who might, just might, argue the flip side of the coin for us common American workers. For those of us lucky enough to be employed, we struggle with the cost of living and constant financial stress. This is no post WWII economy Michael.
The pro-H1b crowd seems to think life is all roses and chocolates. On the contrary, we are in big trouble people.
JBM
The purpose of the H1B program is to lower wages of American workers (citizens and legal residents). I find it amazing that the most capitalistic companies and people don’t think capitalism works in the labor market. My personal experience in many Fortune 500 companies is that the bulk of H1B workers are ill-trained and less than competent. Most of the time, I’ve felt I could find better workers by just grabbing someone off the street at random. I’ve conducted interviews where a potential H1B worker knew nothing about the skills they claimed to have. Their sole function, I have come to conclude, is to be wage busters.
All this bickering is useless. There needs to be an avenue for foreigners to get their Green Card. Right now there isn’t anything for them. So for those who can wait suffer through the H1-B process, those who can’t resort to shady methods like paying someone to marry them for a Green Card.
It really doesn’t matter what those who think we should close are boarders think or those who think we should make the green card requirements easier. People (foreigners or Americans) are going to look out for their best interests. They will do whatever it takes to create a better life for them and their families.
I am currently in the H-1B boat and find it very frustrating.
I’m English but lived in Australia for 10 years before coming here so it’s not the first time I’ve been through a company sponsored migration route.
At the moment I’m taxed but have no real representation at local or state level. I have no incentive to make any long term investments in the US or settle down. We are starting the green card process but it’s neither cheap nor easy (and there’s a lot of duplicated process / inefficiency which makes me wonder about the logic behind the process).
I would love to be able to demonstrate commitment (eg buy a house) and have that count towards the green card but at the moment the process and outcome is such a lottery it makes it hard to feel wanted
Unemployment is too high right now for employment based green cards.
All employment based immigration should be immediately halted.
It’s abit one sided story. The author is an Indian or at least his name is Indian.
Yea no wonder why he wants all these visas to open up so his buddies can join in to nail the “American Dream”.
Lets rename the “American Dream” to the “American’s Dream” ?!
By “American Dream”, you mean subprime mortgages?
Why do you hate this country?
BTW there is no American Dreams any more,,,,
!! Dont forget the mess US has put itself in.
Its all because of this smae arrogant nature of Americans.
Just to get your facts right
INDIA IS CONSIDERED NEXT SUPER POWER, AND HAS OVERCOME THE RECESSION EXTREMELY WELL.
Its matter of time, when Americans will want Indians to come and innovate in US…
India is a dirty toilet that every indian would leave in a heartbeat if the U.S. would give them a green card.
India is a dirty toilet?? …lol…thats like saying Americans gave the world AIDS and the H1N1 flu!!…Ask your american friends who have visited India if they agree with you …dumass!!
The problem with some people like you, who go about a ruin a perfectly healthy conversation, is that ‘frog in the well’ mentality which is ..well.. cos you have never stepped outta you’re homes to see what the world outside is like, you really dont know much besides whats in your safe zone. I bet you think there are snake charmers in India still… man your knowledge is so outdated and that is so sad!
America is a country of immigrants and has always been for ages… with Indians joining the list only recently with the tech boom. That is the reason why it is such a great country, because it gets and retains the best from everywhere. Im not talking just about the H1B here…
Dont go blaming immigrants for your the mess you are in with respect to jobs. You should have elected a better leader who took care of your rights and needs. You, did not do that now did you? ..You elected a government which created a system that exploits both Americans and Indians,
which supported financial entities without foresight, that came out with some crazy ass ideas that bombed big time,
which spent billions and counting on a war that it could do without. Those are the real reasons for the recession and thereby your unemployment, not the H1B. Dont fight the H1B, but for it to be just to all.
The American job market is the most competitive job market in the world and will anyways find a way to retain the best of talent whether local or immigrant and weed out the crap, local or immigrant. You call yourself American because your forefathers migrated there…If staying in a competitive environment is not up your alley, maybe it is you who needs to move out and find some place easy and laidback. Your choice.
I fully agree. If America wants to improve it’s situation we have to take care of marginal and vulnerable people first, before we ramp up immigration.
I am not against those with family members or fiancees abroad getting visas. They SHOULD get visas. If you have a family reason that’s a GOOD reason to get a visa.
If people want to leave their country because it stinks there, that is not such a good reason. Imagine if we could have all fled because England was overtaxing us? What would have happened to our revolution?
Leave them there and let desperation boil over. We need revolution in those parts of the world.
A whole bunch of you did flee Ireland because of the famine. Remember? Agreed, that nobody should be given visa because it would make their lives better but not contribute to the US economy but before making that assumption it might be worth spending a few minutes to see if doing the opposite would benefit Americans as well. Think Win-Win, not Win-Lose!
Obama, are you listening? You just got free advice.
Free advice is worth what you pay for it.
Sorry, Pete: how much did you charge for that little tidbit?
I hope he doesn’t because its a stupid advice.
Go back to whatever shit hole you came from.
You are from Indiana, me2, right?
I have had the pleasure of working with a number of Indians in technology and accounting. The great majority were brilliant, hard-working, and friendly. Since those without favorable feelings toward the US simply don’t come, most were already halfway assimilated when they stepped off the plane. As for them taking jobs from Americans, or working for peanuts, my experience does not support this. Even if it were true, we can fix the problem very simply: admit them permanently and put them on the US citizenship track. At the end of that, they would be Americans. Problem solved.
There is already the O-1 visa where they can self sponsor once the slavery H-1B visa is sunsetted. There, problem solved.
Look it up, first.
I started my first company while I was on a student visa. Is it possible, absolutely. In fact, two of my current portfolio companies are founded by immigrant founders (from Australia and Sweden respectively). In my case, and in the case of each of these founders, we overcame the barrier of being able to live and work in the US by qualifying for legal permanent residency under the categories of ‘EB-1 Alien of Extraordinary Ability’ or ‘EB-2 National Interest Waiver.’
However, the bar that the USCIS sets for legal permanent residency is too high and it deters thousands of would-be entrepreneurs. While I have examples of successful cases above, there are just as many and perhaps several times more founders who have to jump through hoops to get their businesses started. Immigration should be one of those hoops.
Paul Graham has suggested having a Founder’s Visa. Others have suggested that every higher-ed degree issued to a foreigner in the US should come with a greencard stapled to it. (I am in favor of a more selective version which does this for top 10% of bachelors, top 25% of Masters and all PhD degrees)
Here is the stupidest thing (imho) under the current policy: If someone is NOT a permanent resident, but becomes a permanent resident, their spouse automatically gets permanent residency. But if you are already a legal permanent resident, and marry a foreigner, it can take up to 8 years (depending on country of origin) for the spouse to get permanent residency and during that time he/she isn’t allowed to live/work in the US. There is no common sense in US immigration policy.
The problem with immigration is that the legal immigration policy and the illegal immigration policies are conflated together in one giant hairball that no one want’s to take the political risk of undoing.
Thanks for the post Vivek.
The rule about marrying a foreigner makes sense because people were starting serial marriage scams, marrying one person after another to get them green cards. Blame the abusers for the stringent laws.
Valid point! but this needs to be solved, right? Think about having to stay away from your wife and kids for 8 years. This IS slavery!
You do NOT have to stay away from your wife and kids for 8 years if they are important to you!
You can go and live with them.
and Tom you will do the same if u get slight more money.Cos, americans like u just care about the money right
The H-1B visa allows companies to bypass or replace U.S. workers. Bypassed workers become unemployed. Unemployment is the cause of the economic downturn.
Pouring fuel (excess workers) on a raging fire ( high unemployment) does not put it out. It makes it worse!
U.S. Department of Labor Strategic plan Fiscal Years 2006-2011
(pg. 35) states:
“… H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker.”
Bypass is one issue that’s not been brought up here.
Another is that there are two other, distinct problems. The immigration process takes too long. If people are here to work, they should be made permanent residents and integrated into society. It’s not good to have an entire group of workers with a second-class status. Over time, this class of workers grows, and distorts the labor market.
Because of this second-class status, combined with the fact that people are in the H1B status for a long time, the H1B workers have been subject to abuse.
Not all, or even most, suffer abuse, but, in the many situations where workers are abused, it’s clear that the problems are due to their second-class status and the fact that H1Bs are all over the place, and treated like a whole different category of labor.
If you dealt with transitioning H1B workers to green card faster, it would reduce the viability of businesses that do H1B recruiting, placement, and subcontracting. H1Bs would threaten wages less (though they would still have an effect) and make the competition between workers more fair.
America is a nation of immigrants, not temporary guest workers.
Typo in my last comment: ‘Immigration should be one of those hoops.’ should read ‘Immigration should NOT be one of those hoops.’
You had it right the first time. Freudian slip of your conscince.
What is conscince? Did you just make that word up?
Yes, do you like it?
How about the government allows foreign nationals who do legally form companies, and who do pay taxes to sponsor themselves for a green card.
I came to the US nearly 15 years ago on an H1B. I left that job and setup a new company which now employs 20+ US Citizens.
But does the government congratulate me ? No,
there is no way I can apply for a green card because I own part of the company. I would have the relinquish my ownership in order to be sponsored for a green card.
Freeing up H1B’s is one thing, but first can we sort out the rules for Green cards.
Why have you not investigated the Investor visa?
Does your company make in excess of one million dollars?
Are you full of cr@p?
The point of the rule is to prevent people from starting companies simply for the purpose of getting a green card. However, if you own a minority share of the stock, that shouldn’t be an obstacle.
However, if your company is successful, there are other options available to you, such as the National Interest Waiver.
This is the route I took, after waiting 10 years for the companies I’d worked for to sponsor me. I self sponsored, under the NIW (I work in supercomputers, btw), and after 3 years (and an initial rejection), finally got it.
Economic criteria certainly count under the NIW, especially if you’re employing Americans, and if youy can prove you are indeed responsible, it should be straightforward to make a case. The key is to find as many “respectable” people as possible to write letters of support for you.
I would find yourself a *good* immigration law firm, that at the very least has a representative on your state’s immigration board.
There is a great Immigration Law firm called Cohen and Grisby. They will make sure to prove that there are no qualified U.S. workers to do your job.
They even made a video on how they will beat the system on your behalf.
http://www.yout...h?v=TCbFEgFajGU
Shouldn’t you be at a town hall with a megaphone?
As soon as healthcare passes with the public option, Obama will have to tackle unemployment.
Clamping down on the H-1B program is the fastest way for Obama to open up good middle class jobs for the many unemployed people who voted for him.
The economy will get going as soon as people are back to work.
@moe – please. That video lays it out – the law is being exploited by companies that are seeking cheap labor.
That doesn’t mean the entire H1B program is doing that, but, there are some companies that are. They need to be stopped.
Sleazy operators like Cohen and Grisby are bad for citizens, green card holders, and even H1Bs who are legitimately here because of their talents.
I admire you for starting your own company. People here are shameless and worthless, who criticize you for this. You are contributing a great deal to American economy then these people commenting.
I am also thinking of starting company on H1B. I have product ready…But i am stuck with this STUPID H1B RULES.
INNOVATION AND TALENT SHOULD NOT BE BOUND WITH SUCH RESTRICTIONS. This is good for US.
After this shameful recession, atleast now Americans arrogant , stupid politicians should understand this.
Americans like to oppose everything for being protectionist. They just dont want to feel , ideotic after looking at smarter and better people around them.
A American starting a company or H1B starting a company should be valued the same, if everything is LEGAL. Infact, it take real hardship to start a company on H1B.
If this continues, these companies will be started in India. And we will compete from them.
AMERICANS, DONT FEEL ASHAMED LATER, THAT THESE COMPANIES WOULD HAVE EMPLOYED YOU AMERICANS , IF THEY WERE GIVEN A CHANCE.
You are digging your own grave, its just matter of time US.
“If this continues, these companies will be started in India. And we will compete from them.”
No one is stopping you from doing that right now. If you are so confident that the Americans are so incompetent as to take your words as a serious *threat* , then why have you come here ? Wouldn’t you be better off starting a company in India and competing with them and as you would like to assume, beating them at it ?
Btw, I myself am an India on an H1B, but all I have is utmost respect for the Americans for their professional behavior at workplaces, their open-minded thinking and their acceptance of immigrants till date.
Don’t get me wrong, I am still pro-H1B like you are, but I am certainly against the kind of attitude you bring to such a healthy discussion.
Peace.
“My guess is that we’ll get tens of thousands of startups…” –Vivek Wadhwa
Your guess? you’re making guesses in such a serious situation? Oh and if what you say doesn’t happens then what?
Vivek: “OPPS I MADE A SLIGHT MISTAKE GUYS!”
No wonder why TechCrunch has become such a big joke. You guys have no control over your content. Stats can be pulled either way to support a cause.
How about the stat that 100% all of these new immigrants send boatloads of money back to India hence hurting our economy. I’m talking about immigrants here, like Vivek himself. And India profits from them by not even having them around. That just makes me sick!
My wife and I, along with our employers, pay about 15 times more in taxes than we send to our parents (who are not in India btw – this may come as a surprise to you, but there are other countries in the world). And this money is our thanks to our parents and our country for providing us with the education that allowed us to compete with (and beat – you wouldn’t be such a xenophobe if you didn’t feel threatened by immigrants) people like you.
And if you really need to find someone to blame -look among your own people, who don’t give a shit about real serious and useful to the society education in hard sciences. All we do is fill the void. Get your kids away from the TVs and out of the malls, give them some math and physics and biology (with no creationist crap) textbooks, and you won’t need to be worried about foreigners.
Or you can go ahead and cut the transoceanic Internet pipes and ground all international flights and kick all of us out. That would also work. For 10 years or so, until you find that everyone has a bachelors in hospitality services, but nobody knows how to build a car engine or program a spreadsheet app.
Just curious why if America is such a terrible country as you describe it, filled with people who don’t care about hard sciences, can’t get away from the TVs and malls, have text books filled with creationist crap, etc, then why are you so determined to get in/stay in? I should think you’d be happy to stay away from this terrible place.
Its just the currency exchange rate, thats keeping us
… Its like honey bees, they are there till there are juices.
Once its over, they will migrate. And the end looks pretty soon to be .
I never said America is a terrible country. It’s just that the baseline is very low and getting lower. Those who want it, can get wonderful houses, great education, clean environment, and everything else a civilized person might need (well, health care is somewhat shaky, but we’ll leave it aside for now). But the country as it is today exists thanks to the work of people over the last 50 years (in applied results like infrastructure) or more (lawmaking and such). The problem is that fewer and fewer people are interested in maintaining and advancing this quality of life. If the trend continues, the U.S. will lose its appeal pretty quickly. And you can be sure that I won’t stick around. I moved once, I can do it again. Can you say the same for yourself?
I agree with both Max and Mal. America does have it’s laziness which is pathetic – more so from parents perspective.
But Max, if America is so bad then I don’t see why you would want to expose and leave your homeland for such a cesspool – hypocrisy anyone?
Jay, America is not bad but most Americans are and that is why he is here and is your boss.
See my answer above. It’s the future that concerns me, not the present (though the present could be better too).
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.
The author calls filing patents in the USPTO…”silly”. He then states “WIPO PCT” patents help companies compete globally.
There is NO such thing is a “global patent”. PCT applications are ONLY place holders. For example, you can file a PCT on 01/01/09 and then wait 6 or 7 months then file patents in each country you want protection (japan, korea, EU,and etc) and you will get the PCT filing date. Those countries will determine patentablity based on their rules.
First, you want to come to USA, then start taking shots at a US institution….at least get your facts straight.
He is using selective facts and comparing apples to oranges. The only reason he was allowed to write an article is because he has 3 words in his resume “Berkeley”, “Harvard”, “Duke”.
He is also paid by NASSCOM to spout this drivel.
Obama officials already told NASSCOM that immigration policy is not their business so they have paid this idiot to blast these stupid pro H-1B articles everywhere.
“one quarter of all technology and engineering startups nationwide from 1995 to 2005 were started by immigrants.”
How do you think these guys immigrated here? H1Bs for the most part.
Fifty percent of all startups fail within the first five years. Please work this statistic into you claims.
My guess is that the startups are nothing more than body shops which do not count, because they do not create anything.
Meanwhile, in your job, let me guess, realtor?, there is a lot being created. Good thing you are contributing so productively!
1/4 Startsups by Immigrants
1/2 Fails
But who gets the money if they fail? US does not their home country. And even if 1/2 fail others survive which create tons of jobs.
On the otherhand, If we dont have these immigrants guess where they will open up their shops.
Dont think that because we have big universities, we are the only smart people on this planet. Japan, Germany, China, India, UK, China, Korea, and many other nations have great universities and smarter people too. They also have global companies and in many places doing better than US companies.
wow Candy. I bet you never read a text book complete. How much do you know about Silicon Valley?
Start a company first and pay taxes, if ur so proud abt america,
Candy! u r right.. but those start ups which succeed like google create millions of jobs and earns billion from around the globe. These founders of Google also were immigrants..
They may have a first generation immigrant within the group of the startup, but I assure they had no H-1Bs.
H-1Bs are hired to do what they are told, not to start companies. No H-1Bs have started anything of any consequence but only Indian bodyshops to pimp their own people.
I don’t consider throwing up a website and registering a corporation fo a fee of $100 as a startup. My 10 year old could do that.
Lies. More HI-B’s means a race to the bottom. Anyone in IT has seen this in practice. Oh you have paid a few years of taxes in the U.S.? Well I have been paying taxes my whole life and I have served and fought in the military. H1-B’s are hired because they can pay them less, no benefits, and they don’t ever complain about anything. If you want to see an even bigger backlash against foreign workers then have more H1-B’s come in. Stay in your own third world countries and do something to improve them instead of leeching off of ours. As far as I’m concerned with the economic situation is they should cancel all H1-B’s now and send them back where they came from. We don’t want you here. Remember that.
Thanks for proving the fourth paragraph of the article.
He disproves the fourth paragraph, David. The article says the freed H1B would start some companies, but they won’t. They will just compete for the available jobs with the rest of us.
Its not that the tech trained American won’t work, it is that there are few jobs available.
H1B’s should not be ‘freed’ to compete with Americans, they should be sent back, to open jobs for unemployed Americans.
Those unemployed Americans should stay unemployed. At least where I am, if not for immigrants (current or former H1Bs), there would be nobody to hire. Sure there’s plenty of applicants for every position we advertise, but they are worse than useless. Sysadmins who can’t convert binary to decimal, developers who think O(n) is some kind of disease, DBAs who can’t use command line…
Raise the salary and they will come.
Do you think we put the numbers right in our job ads?
I wish the native indians said the samething to your forefathers.
When natives roamed this land, it was not the United States! The United States is a soverign country now.
But it was there land, and natives came and started to live here, and didn’t ask them. Why others can not come today to the USA, because YOU want it?
That is irrelevant to today’s immigration and guest worker debate.
Next you will argue that America used to have slavery so they should continue it.
Yep. He’s definitely from Indiana!
Buy a hood, man! You sound like the one who needs one NOW.
You are funny.
“We don’t want you here. Remember that”.
Thia Question is you’re saying to whom? People who is hiring or People who is coming via H1-B
I think you should say it to the companies who hiring H1-B people.
Now the fact is people getting good amount of money that’s why they are coming to U.S and another fact is companies in U.S have to spend too less so that’s why they are hiring people..
Let’s face it..For Eg: I’m having a job to give with a paygread of 100,000 but with a same level of budget I can get 4 men who is ready to work at 25,000 so here I’m getting more men power without increasing my spending limits. why should I pay more? a simple logic i’m running a company not running a charitable trust..
everybody think of profit and loss..cost increase and cost decrease..these fact never gonna changes ever.
Now the world is a Global Village. everything happen globally. Apple making there iPhones in China. why? Nokia Doing the same. why they’re not making it in U.S.A? because they wanna reduce the cost of the product and that they can get it not in U.S.A but Only possible if they outsource the production in China. Unless people in U.S.A ready to work in less pay to simulate the product costing or ready to pay high for the product so companies can pay you high.
You wrote:
“Thia Question is you’re saying to whom? People who is hiring or People who is coming via H1-B”
There is NO WAY you are making $100,000 with such bad grammar.
I don’t believe it for one minute!
you’d be surprised
see that is the problem. You think tech job is about accents, grammar and in general talking a lot without actually being able to do anything. lol…teaser
By third world countries, you mean the US?
http://www.goog...bridge+collapse
Stop this military bullshit, its old now. I have worked for military
.. yea if they allow H1B’s there, we would have been there too 
..
BTW.. Taxes? ur talking like a begger who is happy with his jar of candies.
There is more people who can make this world a better place.
Dont act as if your saving your own country, when people like you who have put your country in worst economic recession, and worst world image.
People like you started chanting GLOBALIZATION, just to gain profits.
But, now since its your turn to give back, you all are closing your doors..
NEXT TIME, TELL ALL US COMPANIES TO SHUT THEIR BUSINESSES IN OTHER COUNTRIES. Lets see how they feel.
How about elininating the H-1B proram? The EB Perm program is an entrance visa, but very few of the 120,000 are not adjustment of status from a non-immigrant visa. These “dryfoot” nonimmigrant programs are “try it before you buy it”.
“Xenophobes will claim that immigrants take jobs away and blame them for everything that is wrong in their lives and in America.”
It’s hard to argue with the numbers, employment growth no longer supports immigration programs.
1950’s
Population Growth = 11,516,000
Employment Growth = 7,215,000 (62.65%)
1960’s
Population Growth = 19,449,000
Employment Growth = 13,862,000 (71.27%)
1970’s
Population Growth = 30,811,000 (Depression in Mexico)
Employment Growth = 21,224,000 (68.88%)
1980’s
Population Growth = 20,865,000
Employment Growth = 17,685,000 (84.76%)
1990’s
Population Growth = 21,667,000
Employment Growth = 16,998,000 (78.45%)
2000’s (Mar. 2009)
Population Growth = 26,254,000
Employment Growth = 5,137,000 (19.57%)
I work with H1 guys, the problem is how they get treated by the body shops that bring them. They are forced to work for a lower wages on the promise that they will get a green card in return.
I am working with a guy who makes $20/Hr while his “agents” take 50$/Hr on his $70/Hr billing rate.
The only difference between this and pimping a hooker is, this is legal and our immigration system supports it.
Well said!
You could say the same thing about any staffing/consulting firm, ignoring H-1Bs completely.
U.S. citizens do not need a green card and their right to work is not owned and controlled by their sponsor.
So all Americans who work in factories through consulting firms on $7-8/hrs are also like whores given works by pimps. If this is true then 50% of americans are whores and rest pimps.
Let me work here for 5-8 years and get a well deserved green card. By the time I am 35, I will be too busy with kids and probably not even willing to do any start-up. I wanted to stay, and I did it anyway, whether you gave me green card 6 years back, or now. If I wanted to leave, I’d have left 6 years back.
No. You must leave.
If you invited guests to your house and they told you they were not going to leave, what would you say to them?
J.R. don’t you want to take away all immigration laws, so america will be for the americans? Do you think it will be right?
No, just employment based visas. Family sponsoring should be the way to come to the U.S.
I would argue that America needs to learn how to use its resources. I am all for the Best coming to America, to make it even it better. But America, must learn how to make itself better at the same time. As I may fall into this “Xenophobe” category, I expect anyone in America to carry their own weight, and work towards the continuance of the “American Way of Life” which includes peoples of all races and religion.
Hi TC,
Great article. There are 100’s of people like me waiting for the past 7 years to get a green card.
I was planning on joining friendsfreed but could not as i don’t have GC.
It would be a big boost if only the H1B’s are freed i second that.
Thanks , Nag
H1-B take american jobs at half pay. That puts your tech job at risk.
It also makes the person filling the H1-B job a serf to the client company. That puts their freedom at risk.
H1-b is good for companies that want to hire people to work like slaves for low pay.
Sun, Microsoft, Oracle, all claim they cant find enough qualified workers. Bull. They cant find qualified workers willing to work for peanuts.
Its up to you, its probably your job they will take.
This depends on the definition of the word “qualified”. IBM, Symantec, Cisco et al now condier you qualified if they can compress your wages down to 1/3 the Valley standard fully loaded cost of $250K/year.
It’s utterly amazing how much a big multinational is willing to give up to find “qualified” workers. They are willing to undergo massive security breaches, loss of intellectual property, risk of high turnover, moving management to offshore locals and now, pissing of the US government.
US companies HATE US workers and are starting to hate US consumers…
You forgot terrorists. NEVER forget terrorists in your arguments.
Ya know, I never thought of IBM as a terrorist company but I think you have a point! Thanks, I’ll have to work on that one.
Amen to that, brother.
This is the second such article on Tech Crunch in the last week. What is their financial interest in promoting this? Besides Arrington’s outrageous lies and hidden self interest about Apple and Google I’ve had it with this bullshit web site.
Their hidden financial interest? Obviously freeing H1Bs will revitalize Silicon Valley which will mean more stories for Tech Crunch
I heard Rush Limbaugh has a blog reporting on startups, see you over there!
Yes, Arrington’s hidden interest in Apple which is why he’s launching a tablet computer that is going to probably be one of the biggest rivals to Apple’s own offering.
Pur-leeze, can we get some facts around here?
Great suggestion Vivek
Bringing more skilled people will always add value to the the company and to the Economy upto some extent.
But I don’t see that happening sooner or later..as what I have heard recently that now these Visa processing has become more strict with double side verification…thus making thing more complicated..
This is Sick and something needs to be done fast….
It’s disgusting to me that I cannot live in the country I want and work with the people I want. I’m British, and I have a job with a small American company, but I have to work remotely from home because I can’t move here. It’s draconian and horrible. This is Planet Earth, we should be able to live wherever we want on it.
Just out of curiosity, will your country let me move there if I want because I want to live and work there? Are the UKs borders totally open?
It’s MUCH easier to get into the UK than to the US. A recently graduated MBA from a top US business school can move to the UK – without sponsorship – on a work visa. The same can’t be said for the poor foreign grads trying to stay in the US.
No, but of course they should be.
I don’t know much about UK immigration law, but it’s much more relaxed than America’s. In fact, if you live in Europe, you can pretty much hop to any other European country you like.
relaxed? you seem clueless. it is much worse than USA.
it is much worse than USA.
no, it’s not. i’ve done both, and UK system is much better for educated workforce.
Well it’s not like I study this or anything, I’m just a teenager expressing what I think. I don’t know what it’s like for people trying to move to the UK, but my opinion extends to all countries: all borders should be open, for everyone.
Ben, do you also think you should be able to have sex with any girl who you want to have sex with?
haha, good one
why not?? ..if he knows the girl too wants it
Should it matter if she wants to have sex with him or not? Or is that a given in his mind.
It seems to be a given in most Indian’s mind that the U.S. wants them.
Unless you’re an American Indian (and then that only pushes it back some thousands of years longer), if you’re an American then you are either an immigrant or descended from immigrants within the past few hundred years at most. America is the land of immigrants. Before the rise of statism, becoming a citizen was a matter of undergoing a few hours of health exams and then walking into New York City. There is no good reason that it should be substantially more difficult today.
Not giving *citizenship*, much less these visas, to thinking and productive individuals from the rest of the 95% of the human population, ranks among the most colossally stupid national policy ever devised. If America does not appreciate them, other countries can and will.
We don’t have room for the billions of people from the rest of the world.
>We don’t have room for the billions of people from the rest of the world.
Sure, every single person in the world *wants to* and is *capable of* immigrating to America. Right!
But let’s take that dumb idea and run the numbers anyway.
There are about 6 billion people on earth. America has about 3.7 million square miles. If everybody on earth moved to America the average population density would be 1583/mi^2. Surely that would surpass anything that exists today, right? Wrong. It would be comparable to Mauritius, which is only 18th in the world in population density.
What is the quality of life in Mauritius?
You really have no clue what you’re talking about do you?
The day India provides 100k+ jobs for Americans, and gives US green cards, is the day we should do the same.
haha thats the day we’ve really fucked up our economic and political policies as a nation and our standard of living has sunk below theirs. Given historically, nations with high populations have always had lower standards of living… I personally hope that day never comes.
Actually there are over 100,000 Americans working in some of the Indian tech cities alone.
citation needed?
Indeed, citation please?
Citation here of the large wages paid by Indian companies to foreigen workers:
http://news.bbc...sia/4038069.stm
From the very article you posted:
“”I’m leading the Swiss team here,” he says. “We’re a team of 13 – French and German Swiss.” ”
European Union countries and India are similar in that they are both foreign countries to the United States. You can’t compensate the USA by giving low wage jobs to Europeans.
“We hire people from various parts of Europe to work for us on Indian salaries and it’s been very successful. ”
These are not Americans.
And what about Richard Gere?
He goes over there and gives a lady a kiss and they want to throw him in prison?
Oh noes, the horrible American has dared to kiss one of our womens! Put him in the dungeon, or rip his heart out and boil him in a pit of lava deep within a mountain.
You don’t provide any references, but I’ll bet most of those Americans were originally born in India, and have returned after taking US citizenship. In fact, I know a few that have done so, and a few more that are planning to do so in the years to come.
LOL What about everything else India gives you guys and NOT take a single thing? You see everyone who is an immigrant pays taxes here.
Indian immigration laws do not forbid immigrants from any country from starting their own company once they become citizens and its a far easier process than the bunkum this country has. And spouses of H1-B are forced to sit at home irrespective of how talented they are compared to your Sarah Palins.
Your comment is extremely immature since countries have trade treaties and other such exchange programs. If the world worked as simply as : you give me this and I will give you that, US will hold a begging bowl and beg from every other country.
I’m an Indian, and I don’t like living in this country either. I’d love to go back. However, there are immigration laws that are not letting me go.
So, think about what you write before writing crap.
1. What immigration laws are preventing you from returning to the country where you are a citizen?
2. To start a company in the U.S. all you need is $100.00 and to fill out a form with the secretary of state. How much easier should it be?
3. If India requires only Indian citizens to form companies there, how can you say it is easier?
Save the people already living here!
I thought Jesus saves? Or has he switched to spending, to stimulate the economy?
The author calls filing patents in the USPTO…”silly”. He then states “WIPO PCT” patents help companies compete globally.
There is NO such thing is a “global patent”. PCT applications are ONLY place holders. For example, you can file a PCT on 01/01/09 and then wait 6 or 7 months then file patents in each country you want protection (japan, korea, EU,and etc) and you will get the PCT filing date. Those countries will determine patentablity based on their rules.
First, you want to come to USA, then start taking shots at a US institution…at least get your facts straight.
He is using selective facts and comparing apples to oranges. The only reason he was allowed to write an article is because he has 3 words in his resume “Berkeley”, “Harvard”, “Duke”.
Innovation in Silicon Valley didn’t start when the flood of cheap H-1B came in. It won’t end when they leave. What you call the brain drain will actually be the end of the wage drain as US nationals regain the jobs they lost when the cheap labor flooded the Valley. (Contrary to the claims of the author the vast majority of H-1Bs take low to mid level IT jobs resulting in little innovation and 3rd world sloppy execution.) H-1Bs actually raises the cost of software development as many projects need to be re-done to fix the poor implementations of these so called wage slaves.
H-1Bers are free to compete from their home countries. One would think with that massive concentration of highly educated, low wage entrepreneurs not having to worry about their immigration status would make places like Bangalore and Chennai ultra competitive with Silicon Valley.
Now I do not get this idea of wage drain — I am a worker here.
Trying to think this out :
1. Immigrants (read wage drainers) go from the US
2. US companies forced to hire workers demanding higher pay
3. Stock market does not like higher costs
4. Company moves more jobs out of the US (read off-shoring)
5. Unemployment goes up
6. Business still wins
1. we’re discussing this issue at length here.
2. businesses dont like this part
3. can we get rid of this? — not really we’ll all become socialist devils. probably not in all honestly this is one way of keeping business honest to their motives.
4. off shoring is business’s way of saying screw more dollars out of this whole mess
5. oops lets not think that far just yet
6. Damn you business!! can I get a job here?
root cause of problems : business. damn it – shot meself in me foot.
argghh! – whats the point of thinking ahead. After all its only thinking.
It is also worth noting here, those “middle-range IT jobs” that most H1-B visa workers are taking do NOT in fact require advanced degrees in the sciences or math. Andy Grove is full of it every time he spouts this none-sense, and all of his buddies chairing and commanding SV Fortune 500s are in on the joke with him.
As a Canadian born H1b holder I feel the need to speak up here.
The current H1b system is hurting the economy since it limits job mobility (switching companies) and the ability to advance within your current company.
There are a few misconceptions I feel the need to clear up:
- H1b’s depress wages: not so. H1b holders have to be paid at or above market rates as determined by the government for the position they are in. If this is not happening then ask for better enforcement NOT to get rid of h1b holders.
- H1b’s are cheaper part 2. Ontop of my salary the company I work for paid about 25k to apply for my vsa (including legal fees) and 40k to apply for my greencard. An amercan is a deal compared to me.
- H1b’s take American jobs. Not so. At every company I have worked at it takes 4-6 months to fill a position including considering h1bs. The problem s finding people with the correct education (cs degree where they learned sufficent data structures, math and a couple of languages). Want more Americans hired? Fund your education systems instead of asking for Canada and India to do so.
H-1B’s are hired for cheap labor and to replace higher wage U.S. workers. Those are the facts.
Er, as “IAmCanadain” states, H1B applications have to prove that the salary being paid is equal or higher than local rates for US nationals.
That is a fact, it’s in the law which you are free to go check out online or go visit your local library which will have an official copy.
To reply, J.R. with ”
H-1B’s are hired for cheap labor and to replace higher wage U.S. workers. Those are the facts.” with no citation/etc just explains why we are really in this mess — because its impossible to hold a serious debate of the issue without people hijacking the debate with uncorroborated bullshit.
I’ve filled out plenty of those forms and the system is so easy to game it’s not even funny. There are many studies that prove H1-B is being abused my large multinational companies to compress wages.
As an ex-H1B worker from Taiwan (God bless, not another Indian), I was earning six figures when I was an H1B holder for a position that required only 2-3 years experience.
Yes, there are some H1B workers who were abused by the system working for peanuts, based on my experience they were mostly hired by Indian IT consulting companies that sent them to the US.
But being adamant in believing all or the vast majority of H1B workers are wage slaves despite numerous claims by H1B holders on this forum that it’s not true just confirms your own insecurities – “How could this be!? I’m American and H1Bs are getting paid more than me? It’s just impossible that they are more competent, they’re just willing to suck up getting paid less as slaves! (hypnotizes self)”
Not all H1B workers are from shit hole 3rd world countries, there are countries called Canada, UK, Singapore, Japan, Australia, etc., we’re here just cause we do like Americans. Anything wrong with that?
If you do meet an H1B from a 3rd world country, instead of judging him as a job stealing slave, why not give some respect to the fact that he struggled to come here, LEGALLY.
Yes, it sucks as an H1B that you can’t easily switch jobs(just a bit harder) and that you don’t have the freedom to start a business even with the right opportunity, but we’re not necessarily getting paid less. I feel like some Americans are not happy if we get paid less since we lower wages while others are not happy if we get paid the same or more since now we’re “stealing” “good” jobs, thank God those aren’t the majority in this country.
It’s too bad that this discussion has become so divided.
The fact is, there are H1Bs who are paid well, and need in our country, and do not “take jobs from American.” There are also H1Bs who are abused, paid little, and will be systematically exploited.
Additionally, what Vivek brings up is also true.
H1B reform has to combine all these issues into one law that will simultaneously help both the American and global workforces, and the American economy.
If the issue of H1B abuse is not addressed, the problem will only grow, and basically threaten the program.
More importantly, the slow pace of converting H1Bs to green cards will eventually become an abusive situation. People will have H1B status for decades, and suffer for it.
I can introduce you to a guy on H1 making $20/hr.
If you look in history, i’ll use example of Nikola Tesla – Serbian origin inventor who relocated to USA.
If H1B was there in end of 19th century when he lived we wouldn’t now have electric motor, nor Niagara falls first generator and system to move electricity on long distance. We wouldn’t have foundation of wireless technology and many more things which was possible to create in environment that USA gave to him.
Fear of letting people express their dreams reflects in legislations such is H-1Bs.
For US economy is crucial to get back on track and help all those people to build their life and their professional carrier .
I am considering to relocate in USA, not to the fact that i am looking better paying job, but seeking environment which can give me ability to make difference.
The land of promise should be again.
Just my 2¢.
Do you know the Tesla’s story well? Thomas Edison brought them on a very strict terms and ROBED HIM BLANK of many patents filed together.
So, it looks like Nicola Tesla is a perfect example of H1B immigrant.
ROFL
Yes, it is slavery… and why? its because we have restrictions for H1s. H1 employees are deemed to stay with an employer. This lets corporations to deal with them the way they want.
The day when H1 candidates are equal to american citizens,the job market becomes a level playing field.
Corporations are well aware that a H1 employee is gonna stay with them for 7 years[~ time for a Green card in EB3] with the meager salary and no questions asked.
Stoping H1 is not the solution. Empowering them is.
In order to bring usa out of recession, free outsourcing is to be encouraged. Outsourcing allows them to get cheap labor, increase work conditions, d ecrease poverty and improve global standards. United we stand, divided we fall. Contribute equally, sucess will be yours.
Are you insane?
The recession is because of unemployment.
Unemployment is what happens when you send jobs overseas. People can’t spend if they are unemployed. The companies shipping jobs overseas won’t have any customers.
It IS that simple.
Trying to think this out :
1. Immigrants go from the US
2. US companies now need to hire workers demanding higher pay
3. Stock market does not like higher costs
4. Company moves more jobs out of the US (read off-shoring)
5. Unemployment goes up (00ps I didn’t just say that)
higher pay (read 250K in silicon valley)
what are you be doing thats entitles you to that money?
i think theres a very disturbing sense of entitlement amongst the workforce here.
I understand that you DO work hard, but seriously…
One of the huge problems with the H-1B program is that employees are essentially locked into their jobs (and employers can thus get away with paying them less) by the H-1B to green card process. Instead of issuing H-1B visas to people based on a job offer from an employer, work visas should be issued to individuals based on their skills and qualifications. Those who can maintain employment over some period (e.g. 5 years) should then be allowed to apply for permanent residency.
amen to that.
after that level of contribution to the US (taxes, consumption etc) we should be offered a bone rather than expected to remain in a very shaky position.
I moved here (with my family in tow) because my employer couldn’t find someone with my specific skill set… now sadly I can’t even grow in my current role without putting my visa at risk…
This is the situation I have compassion for.
I have worked alongside brilliant programmers who were on H1-B visas, and I do not begrudge them the work.
What I am worried about is the government caving to the greedier side of the industry that loves to hire at below market, and keep those employees in virtual slavery (as golden as the chains may be). This limits competition for both the jobs and the people to fill them, leading to an overall drag on MY earning power.
I must admit though that foreign outsourcing is a much greater threat to US tech workers right now.
I really don’t know about the H1Bs getting payed half rate… in fact thats not true! Since 2000 everyone has got equally screwed as salaries have been artificially reduced in the bay area so CEO’s could become mega millionaires.
Non compete recruiting agreements companies formed between each other all but fixed the employment cost problems the CEOS of the dot com era complained about.
Now everyone, H1Bs included get the same shitty
salaries….
haha… thats assuming Obama is truly interested in “innovative” solutions that lead to revenue generation. I’m on a H1-B, 27 year old and have been earning six figures++ for the last 3 years.
Would love to buy a house tomorrow, but won’t since I haven’t (and won’t) apply for a green card given the current mediocre system in place (please stand in a line and the govt. will hand you a green card in 7 years). Are you kidding me?
I’ve recently co-founded a small startup and hope to start more in the future. Sadly even though I want to be here and do more, I think my future startups will be in India. The world is changing and being in the US is a choice, not a compulsion. Sadly Obama and his administration don’t seem to get it.
So if you’re hoping for Obama to “think out of the box”, please don’t hold your breath, cause he simply won’t!
Take your stupid body shop “startup” and go back to India.
I disagree with the authors premise that H1Bs will make the US economy improve. H1Bs were invented in an age when the only way to train a worker was to bring them here. Instead, US companies should staff their international expansion and cost reduction efforts through the development of foreign subsidiaries or branch offices. Don’t hire the outsourcing firms… Build your own shop.
The premise that Americans are too lazy to innovate and require a flood of foreigners to save it’s economy coming from Foreign Zionist is self-serving and pompous.
The US can and should continue to invite the best and the brightest to become US citizens, but opening the H1B floodgates will only create more dependency on a government groaning under the weight of ever-growing liberal entitlements.
Please google “Zionist” and then tell us how someone named “Vivek Wadhwa” can be one.
H1-B’s also support outsourcing/offshoring firms like Infosys,Wipro,TCS which are able to employ local talent in ‘uncompetitive’ cities/neighborhoods where American tech firms rarely go.
So when Accenture has 50,000+ people employed in India or IBM has enormous numbers there, too, because the labor pool is more talented and cheaper, are they an American company or an Indian company? When foreign consulting firms have 25000 or more US workers on payroll here are they an Indian firm or a good sized America employer? Yes, the cost of labor is less abroad . . .but often the cost of living makes that possible. It is what eventually allowed America to surpass Britain in the 19th Century as a manufacturing country. Now our arrogance and stupidity are allowing it to happen to us.
+100
Right on man!
“Does a doctor in India compete with a doctor in California.” – Why not. Read about medical tourism. See how many people are traveling to other countries to get expensive procedures done in other countries. The numbers was so less 4,5 years back. But it is climbing year by year. On the top of paying atrocious premiums every month, you know how the insurance companies are sucking individuals and corporations. And thats is the hot topic of the whole nation now and you are asking this question.
“Please explain how an engineer building a bridge in India compete with a U.S. based engineer building a bridge in Florida.” – The place where I live wherewind mill energy is encouraged, I see lot of engineers from India come to install, and consult and go.
It is too bad that you don’t even know where the world is heading to and where you are.
I doubt doctors in the U.S. are concerned about medical tourism lowering their salaries in the U.S. If the customer goes to that country, then there is nothing wrong with using labor from that country
The second example of Engineers coming in to build windmills is not an example of an engineer in India competing with an engineer in the U.S. That is an example of the problem that needs to be solved by restricting companies from bringing in cheap foreign labor.
If there was no H-1B/L-1 visa, that company would have to hire U.S. workers for their U.S. customers.
H1bs work for half money is a myth. May be one or two guys would be doing that. Infact hiring h1b contractors is costlier than hiring a perm employee. May be people with fake resume or just entering the job market will work for peanut money. And their work quality also will be the same. I know for a fact that many H1Bs are not hired by companies because they ask equal salary than anyone else. Many H1Bs are earning 6 figures salaries. The day H1Bs are given full freedom about their employment and employer dependency that is the day everyone will get equal pay. Otherwise this will continue. If one H1b is not willing to work for peanut money, someone else will.