What’s More Important – Craigslist or South Carolina? A TechCrunch Poll
by Michael Arrington on May 18, 2009

South Carolina has the dubious distinction of being the first state to secede from the United States, in 1860. You could say that they had very strong feelings on the issue of slavery. If they’re still up for it, I say let them leave. Craigslist is way more important than they are.

Congratulations to Craigslist for standing up to South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster and demanding an apology. The situation they find themselves in, facing threatened criminal prosecution, is absurd. I stand by my post last night that Craigslist should simply shut down the South Carolina site permanently, and discontinue any negotiations with the state. McMaster has no basis for threatening civil or criminal action, and this is clearly just a way for him to get press in his bid for governor. A Facebook group has sprung up around this as well.

But as an aside, this whole drama has made me wonder, just how important is South Carolina anyway? If it really came down to choosing between South Carolina and Craigslist, how many people would rather have South Carolina?

South Carolina a former slave state that has less than 4.5 million people and a median income of under $40,000/year, 39th in the U.S. 92% of the state’s residents are Christian, and the gross state product is around $150 billion. A main driver of economic activity is tobacco, and the Klu Klux Klan has a vibrant and active chapter in the state. On the upside, I hear Myrtle beach is nice, and my co-editor Erick Schonfeld’s mother lives there.

Compare that to Craigslist, which doesn’t have any physical territory but boasts 46 million monthly visitors in the U.S. alone, making it nearly ten times the size of South Carolina. The site has been a significant factor in disrupting old media, particularly newspapers, by making classified listings free. Craigslist has made the lives of tens of millions of people better by helping them get rid of unwanted couches, find a new job, or rent an apartment. And it has never charged much for what it does – it is a classic case of giving more than taking.

If you really had to choose, which is more important to you, Craigslist or South Carolina? Which has the bigger positive impact on our culture, and which adds more utility to your daily existence. Craigslist wins hands down.

That’s why I’d be very upset if McMaster has his way and puts Craigslist management behind bars. Or even if his attacks have the effect of chilling the freedom-loving Craigslist community. Kick South Carolina out of the Union (we can add Puerto Rico or Canada afterwards if we really need a nice round number of 50 states). Build a wall around it to stop the inflow of federal dollars. We don’t want to do this, but the dangerously self-serving and backwards thinking of the state’s elected leadership leaves us no choice.

But don’t touch Craigslist. It’s too important.

What do you think? Take the poll below. And remember, even though what I’m proposing is absurd, how would you really answer?

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Responses

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  • First. (just kidding) Craigslist is an enabling tool. It doesn’t control what happens in the authentic world, it just extends this process to the virtual space. This whole subject makes me question what the hell America is about anymore.

  • Craigslist. Its in California.

    Where is S.C.? Oh, probaby south of N.C. the state with the basketball team?

  • Its secede not succeed. Jeez noone ever gets it right

  • Michael’s posts are priceless! :)

  • silicon valley dropout (@silvaldropout) - May 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm PDT

    obviously sc where else can michael phelps go from a hero to a zero

  • What would really be awesome were if the U.S. government would actually put South Carolina up for sale on Craigslist.

  • I really hope SC responds in kind and brings criminal charges and that they stick. Give me a break, they knew they were a huge source of prostitution for years.

    • yeah the important thing here isn’t the facts of the situation, it’s that people care about prostitution, and the root cause is clearly craigslist.

      • It’s somewhat ironic that Arrington refers to South Carolina as a “former slave state” when, in fact, some of women being prostituted on Craigslist are slaves to violent pimps who kidnap, beat and trade women and children as property.

        Arrington’s sadly seems incapable of recognizing that most “prostitution” does not constitute a Silicon Valley CEO paying for consensual sex in a hotel suite at the Mark Hopkins. It’s an ugly “business” that involves people who are being forced to do the most horrendous thing in the world: sell their bodies against their will under threat of violence.

        Apparently for Mr. Arrington, some forms of slavery are acceptable.

        • or McMaster could go after the prostitutes, pimps and clients by using craigslist and other online listing sites as a tool to point them directly to the criminals. but that doesn’t get headlines.

        • shhhh… Don’t state the obvious about the good Craigslist could do to help eliminate the “evil” in the world. That does not get you in the headlines…

        • or – well, what about shutting down the numerous local and alternative newspapers, late night cable TV 900 number groups and whatever else is currently running in SC? Now, it is true that at this point craigslist may be larger than any one of them, but those guys have to figure they would be next don’t they?

          Or could it just be that this is all a stupid publicity stunt that will backfire – allowing whoever opposes McMaster for the Republican nomination to slide in without doing any work. Hey – do you have to be resident in SC to run for office?

        • Hey! That’s a good idea. Let THEM (AG office) police the site! Just give them administrative privileges and LET THEM WORK at last, not spread their BS.

          Good idea.

        • I fully agree with you that most prostitution in this country is nothing less than slavery, and that most people, including Mike, do not fully understand the suffering and misery illegal – black market – prostitution causes.

          I can see that you have the passion that only someone who knows what goes on in that sphere of our society could have, but I am sure that Mike does not approve of slavery in any form. Unfortunately, he, as most in this country until their daughter disappears and gets arrested for prostitution a couple years later, are ignorant of the situation.

          We live in America, where ignorance runs free, just beyond our gated community and mono-socio-economic circle of friends and colleagues. What happens to those who I cannot see does not concern me.

          On the article itself; I personally think that it was a mistake to pressure Craigslist. The activity will go on, yet now it will disperse to other places and the slave holders = Pimps will know to be more careful. Numbskull AGs went after Craigslist even though they had not clue of the ramifications of their actions. I find it curious that we, as Americans, are always so ignorant of reality in so many spheres of life. Prostitution will never be stopped. Legalization and heavy regulation is the only way the devious, miserable, and as many negative aspects as realistically possible can be removed from the activity.

          Unfortunately, our society, in aggregate, is too infantile to even properly, without corruption, handle regulated prostitution. The next best thing would have been to utilize situational awareness to pursue the slave holders = Pimps. But that would be counter to our drive to settle on the lowest common denominator.

          Congratulations idiots, you are still winning!

        • on this tangent - May 19th, 2009 at 1:43 pm PDT

          I think McMaster is an idiot here but we can’t ignore the fact that it’s possible Craigslist (and other listing sites) has increased the overall amount of prostitution by making it much easier to buy and sell… ass.

          How many of those Silicon Valley CEO’s would be out cruising the streets for hookers? Think you can really get most of those guys out from in front of their Macs, even for some tail? I think not.

          How many women on Craigslist would actually go out and sell themselves on a street corner?

          Like most businesses, the internet has made it easier to consummate transactions.

          I’m not saying this is bad, just that it’s possible and we can’t ignore it. Without Craigslist, there would probably be fewer overall hookers and johns, though those that did engage in prostitution would be more visible, more controlled by pimps, more vulnerable and, well, more seedier.

          I vote for Craigslist but others might not.

        • Of course, shutting down craigslist is just one step closer to ending prostitution.

          Afterwards, we can close all hotels in the country, all dating sites and all classifieds.

          We will not stress on going after the clients, the pimps and the whores, because, they are not the problem.

          Remember, “people don’t kill people, guns kill people”.

  • Hey, Stephen Colbert is from South Caroline :-) , so it is not that easy to choose Craigslist over SC.

  • S.C. should just accept they don’t get to control the internet and what’s on it. If they want a dictator, they should move to China.

  • I’m just glad my mother doesn’t read Techcrunch.

  • What is South Carolina ?

    Just kidding, actually got a chance to visit Charleston and it is a very nice city, way prettier than Palo Alto ;-)

  • What does “92% of the state’s residents are Christian” have to do with the worth of the state? Are you implying that because there are a lot of Christians in South Carolina that it is not worth much? Is that a reasonable metric or is bigoted? What if I say “How important is Israel anyway? If you had to choose between Google and Israel who would pick Israel? Israel is 76% Jewish!!”

  • Maybe the decision should be made the Good Ol’ American way – free market evaluation.

    South Carolina: 2009 projected deficit, $871 million, or $-194 / person (http://www.cbpp...view&id=711)
    Craigslist: $150mm revenue, call it $100mm profit or about $4mm per employee.

    Tough call.

    As for taking Canada as a S.C. replacement, it might be a bit of a hard sell up here. Probably worth it to start getting Hulu though.

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    The Noitworld Guys

  • I hate to have to vote against Cragislist after all it’s done to put the print media out of business, but fewer things are more obnoxious than self-rightous costal techies who look up to Stephen Colbert and look down on poor Christian folk…

    Keep the state with one of the lowest per capita tax rates in the nation. Lose Craigslist.
    (Oh, and as an added bonus, take away yet another source of taxes for the head-up-your-bootie state of California)

  • TechCrunch is in the deadpool, dude.

  • Michael stop looking out for your own interests here, we all know the real reason you’re throwing is a hissy fit. How else you gonna get laid?

  • We don’t need to, it’s obvious just by looking at you.

    • oh, you went from funny to mean.

      • You were a lawyer, i didn’t expect you to be so thin skinned. Plus i would have cracked this joke, in person.

        You rock marrington.

        • A) Michael is a good looking guy (And I am a dude, but I aint gay — I’m just sayin…).

          B) It’s kind of hard not to look DOWN on the nosey AG when he is on his hands and knees digging around in your backyard.

          If you dont like prostitution, then get a divorce.

          CraigsList is no more guilty of prostitution than the owner of a bathroom stall is for displaying handwritten “for a good time call…..” ads.

          The best way to raise revenue is to tax everything that the puritans try to suppress.

  • I think that the small USA territory (not a state at all!) of South Carolina be traded to some manufacturer of electronic gadgets. Maybe we can trade S. Carolina for a bunch of Nintendo Wii’s? Or iPhones. These devices are much more useful.

  • And once again, Michael Arrington shows us that TechCrunch is just a few clowns short of a circus!

  • Craigslist is by far way more useful than south carolina is to me.

  • Remove South Carolina and Alabama from the U.S. and the average IQ would go up.

  • “former slave state”? You’re really going there? What a stupid article. Taking cheap shots at a state just because AG of that state is threatening CL then bringing up slavery up all things to apparently highlight how bad South Carolina is.

    “Twitter is a promising startup but it is a American company and as we all know Americans enslaved blacks and stole Native Americans land”.

    “The Sony LGM100 might be a iPhone killer but the Japs did bomb Pearl Harbor and massacre civillians in China.”

    “Former Holocaust state Germany might acquire Chrysler.”

    Stick to the goddamn topic next time funny man.

    • i dont think you get it….

      he got you on the site… and posting

      who is the winner here?

    • maybe his point is that in SC the KKK is still allowed to organize, while in Germany there is a national law forbidding any Nazi activity.

      • Wrong – there is no such law in Germany. Neo-Nazis often hold rallies and marches, even here in Berlin, which is fairly diverse (they usually hold them in the Eastern districts though). On top of that, there is even a “right-wing” (they are Nazis) political party, the NPD, which has actually won seats in certain state legislatures (also in the former East). The only thing that’s illegal is doing the “Heil Hitler” greeting.

        And by the way, it’s a common myth taught in many schools that the Civil War had much to do with slavery. While That was certainly a part of it, but the overwhelming economic reasons were way more significant. That doesn’t excuse SC from being a backward-ass state though ;)

  • Your poll technique is seriously biased because you’re taking it on line, the domain of Craigslist, and not in the hills of South Carolina.

    Also, it may be that Craig’s, which I use regularly, has a greater economic footprint at the moment, but I do expect South Carolina, which predated it, to outlive it as well, and that’s worth something.

  • You sure can write a mean post, Michael :)

    (I would know…)

    • I think it’s way meaner to try to put someone in jail only because you really, really want to be governor.

      • Oh, please! History is permeated with people putting other people in jail because they want to be governors/kings/presidents.

        And writers know that mean articles and exagerations bring eyeballs and attention to their beloved signatures, so what gives?

        It’s marrington’s game (why would anyone call you anything else from now on?), it’s the politician’s game.

        In the midst of the circus, hopefully CL can walk through it all undeterred…

  • Jesus Miguel Franciso Pedro De Gustavo - May 18th, 2009 at 3:53 pm PDT

    No one should rule the internet period. Its logical, nothing physical about it – other than servers which are located globally. These servers happen to be private property as well – unless we make servers illegal.

    So if we invent something that transmits data using water is water going to be ruled as well?

    Citizens should be ashamed of themselves for letting it go as far as its gone. Stupid Citizens!

  • mhmm, but yet you’re here every day nonetheless, spouting your mindless crap. interesting…

  • Folks from South Carolina are usually quick to remind me that they never technically agreed to “un-seccede” – which all of the other Confederate states did. So, maybe this is easier afterall and a win-win for both.

    Craigslist gets their freedom to run whatever ads they see fit Arrington gets his victory and South Carolina gets a balanced if not in-the-black budget by not supporting welfare states and charging rediculously high tarrifs on non-carolina green fees at their golf courses (which you missed as a big perk)…

    You may take this idea to the SC offically, I can see them going for it…

    Oh – and lets go for the U.S. Virgin Islands as states before Canada or Puerto Rico….

  • Um…. craigslist vs south carolina is definitely a mismatch. But the state’s important. Ever since John C. Calhoun they’ve had their differences with the rest of the US, but they’ve still got their Charleston Chew and delicious food, so we love them anyway.

  • Actually, I need them both -Craigslist to get rid of the two-year-old appliances that my wife no longer wants and SC because without them, I couldn’t get to my 2nd home in NC! :)

  • I voted for craigslist. Then I read all the comments, many if not most humiliating people because of their religious beliefs. Even worse, assuming the citizens of the state all agree with actions of their government.

    TechCrunch is headed for a fall. Alienating readers, bombarding them with twitter and social media. Social media is just about to have a HUGE crash in the next 6-8 months. TechCrunch might go with it. I’ve already swore I’d quit reading TC. Got to keep my promises.

  • The South gets no respect. I know this is satirical but you can’t judge a state by one of its politicians.

  • Dude i’m from South Carolina and i love this state, we have the Michelin headquarters and BMW plant the only place in America where the Z4 is made. So please do not attack the whole state becouse the AG is a freakin Idiot. I got nothing against graigslist. as for the slavery have the country left the union becouse of slavery so that is a mute point. i’m not trying to attack you i’m just asking you not to put the rest of SC in the same boat as that dumbass AG.

    • @arrington, you should have approached North Carolina privately with your offer to sell South Carolina. Think of the synergies in government staffing (only one A.G., for example). Think of the economic boon to sign-makers rebranding both states as “Carolina.” Think of a more orderly field of 49 stars on the US flag. Oh well. Good luck with the sale. And beware any deal involving Western Union, Moneygram, wire transfer, cashier check, money order, shipping, escrow, or any promise of transaction protection/certification/guarantee.

      • ROFL
        That’s the true VC approach. :) If you need to get rid of a piece of junk – bribe somebody in a big Co. who’ll ‘acquire’ this sh…t.

    • Bob Jones University is in that state? Geez, I’ve heard horror story upon horror story about that place.

  • I think the TC guys have been hittn the hooch tonight.

    I’ve never seen so many staffers comment on a post before.

    Ever.

    Gotta run. My beers’ gettn warm.

  • Michael, great work exposing the “bullying for office” scam here.

    “sunlight is the best disinfectant” – Keep it up, keep exposing this stuff.

    Government resources blatantly wasted to keep adults from consensual sex is ignorant at best, but when you see people who should know and comprehend the implications push it, that’s something worse altogether.

    This grandstanding isn’t about protecting anyone from harm or public safety, quite the opposite – most of the problems people think are caused by prostitution (from convenient media sound bites) are actually caused by the laws driving prostitution underground.

    Yes, it’s still around. The world’s oldest professions never went away and never will, it just goes underground where you have crime, violence, mob rule, violence, lose/lose/lose. These laws foster crime, they make room for it.

    Those laws are based on complete ignorance, just people trying to push their own PERSONAL “moral values” or religious beliefs on others and thus infringing on their own personal freedoms.

    Have an awesome day!
    Dan

  • Craigslist is simply a bulletin board. It’s not the culprit here, it’s just immensely popular and is the nation’s cork board. I guarantee you if it went down then others would take it’s place. There are already competitors out there (backpage.com). If you go after craigslist, what’s next? The bus stop down the street where people post ads? Right….. get a grip people…. this is another example of slow dimwitted folks who are reacting to a situation on the internet they don’t understand. These are the same people who are reactionary to swine flu and every other thing they read in the news or the paper. Gullible.

  • So, let’s see. In the 4th paragraph you describe the state as formerly pro-slavery, poor, KKK and tobacco affiliated, oh, and Christian.

    Thanks for throwing your Christian readers under the bus. You have been railing against anti-Jewish sentiment all week, and then you write this article and associate Christians with slavery, tobacco and a racist organization. No Christians I know believe in any of these things, but I guess we Christians are all white, redneck Bible-belters, right?

    What’s the deal, Mike? This is offensive to a lot of people.

    • I agree—a very offensive post, and without need. You can take McMaster to task without offending an entire state (and the majority of Americans, who happen to be Christians).

      This is the last time I read TechCrunch for a while.

      • i understand you are no longer here but just in case you were blowing bubbles:

        As a Christian, do you support CL allowing erotic ads on its site that ‘potentially’ facilitate adults exchanging cash or favors for sex?

        • I’ll reply, as a Christian.

          I do support it – because I don’t believe in legislating morality, and I believe in the First Amendment.

          If I wanted myself and everyone around me (including non-believers) to live under religious law I’d move to a Sharia state.

          And Mike, the Christian thing was a pathetic low for TC.

  • lol thanks just please when you speak about this event poke fun and attack the AG becouse he is a real idiot and not to many people in my part of SC don’t like him, he is a arrogant jerk and should be deported to mexico or some shit

  • I was born and raised in South Carolina, but I have no problem admitting to its shortcomings. It’s not all hillbillies and moonshine.

    You don’t seem to deride the entire State of California because of Proposition 8.

    You don’t seem to take the UK or the French to task for their laundry list of historical misgivings that have current, real world repercussions.

    You don’t deride Israel for their actions. They have certainly been the victim, but any reasonable person would admit that Israel (like the US) has their share of mistakes, but we don’t hear about it on TC when you write about them from a technology angle.

    So why do you chide South Carolina because of the actions of one man?

  • As much as I hate to see readers of blogs get all freaked out and angry over small, insignificant posts… I really am surprised by the content of this article.

    South Carolina is my home state. And to bring up some of the obviously bad points about the state to prove your point that Craigslist is worth more, is irresponsible writing. Seriously, KKK references?

    Once again, no hate. Just won’t be reading this site any longer.

    • Apparently Mikey left out of his article the underlying reason for the request from the SC AG.
      In November 2008, craigslist entered into an agreement with forty (40) state Attorneys General and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (“NCMEC”) to put in place safeguards to combat unlawful activity and improve public safety on the craigslist Internet classified service.

      Recent national events, along with ongoing law enforcement efforts in South Carolina clearly indicate that craigslist has not put in place sufficient safeguards in the last six (6) months to prohibit the Internet site from being used as a vehicle to advertise or solicit prostitution and to post graphic pornographic pictures accessible to minors.

      Here is the link to the article: http://www.scat.../craigslist.pdf

      If craigslist has lived up to there part of the agreement, then McMaster has no reason to take action.

      Why not for your next article ask Jim Buckmaster to provide details to the points that are addressed in the agreement…I would interested to see how much $$ has gone to charity..

      BTW..I don’t see the Cali AG’s signature.

  • One would hope they’re pursuing gun control in the same manner … Can’t CL just use the same defense as the gun lovers?

    Guns don’t kill people, people kill people …

    Craigslist don’t pimp girls out … people do.

    What a clown.

  • This post shows a very arrogant point of view (and very closed mind too). It implies that South Carolina is a state inhabited only by white trash. It implies that the only states that matter are the rich ones like California or New York, where “thinking” people like Michael Arrington live. This is a very dangerous and discriminating way of thinking, especially considering that TechCrunch is read all over the country, not only California. Yes, real people live in South Carolina, and not only the KKK. It may have a dark past, a small economy and bad politicians (who doesn’t?), but it is part of the plural, multicultural United States, like it or not. Comparing South Carolina to Craigslist in terms of “utility to your daily existence” is not only not funny, but dumb.
    I am not from South Carolina, but I have been there a couple of times and yes, it is poorer than other states and yes, it is conservative. But it is not only a pretty nice place, it also has real people living in it. Open your eyes a little further beyond your screen, Michael Arrington. If you are mad at some attorney just let him know and blog the hell out if it, but think twice before you insult the people. “Remove South Carolina and Alabama from the U.S. and the average IQ would go up”: Is this the type of comment you were looking for?

  • Dude, seriously, you are going down to AG McMaster’s level. Why are you beating up the whole state for one guy’s fault?

    He is a politician. Doing crazy things to get elected or stay in the office is a politicians’ job. Let voters of SC decide what is best for them.

    Even the Craigslist guys, who have been directly harmed are more civilized.

    What are you gaining by posting crazy, over the top, controversial remarks?

    I guess you get more hits and more comments. That makes your blog more popular. That helps you retain the top spot on whatever top-10 list you follow.
    I think you succeeded.

    Now, the AG is also getting his publicity and popularity through TC. I am glad you are all helping each other out ;-)

  • Hookers will always find a way to advertise on the internet. Most logical choice may be http://www.tugtest.com

  • Can I presume you’re showing your ideology since I didn’t see any gripe when Lisa Madigan (D; That’s Democrat) got Newmark to roll over and play dead?

  • You never cease to amaze me, Mike :P

  • Pressing readers to ridiculously choose between the existence of CL or keeping SC in the union? C’mon. This sounds like a bad dive bar hypothetical tirade between smashed MBA’s. CL is important no doubt, but it’s likely a new community-driven classifieds network would fill the void in no time (look at Twitter). Surely the UI won’t be the bottleneck to get to market. Barney Stinson self-zing!

  • I’m not sure why everyone thinks we’re so dumb in SC. If we can keep our politicians occupied with nonsense like this, they stay out of the rest of our business.

    On the other hand, I’d rather have McMaster as the Governor than Sanford who is bound and determined to give our share of the stimulus $$ away even though we’ll be taxed to death to pay it back anyway.

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