Microsoft’s Silverlight product is most directly a competitor of Adobe Flash. But that’s not who they’re calling out in some data they sent our way today. Instead, the company (or at least their PR firm) is noting that with 300 million installs of Silverlight 2, the platform is installed on more machines around the world than the web browsers Firefox, Safari and Chrome — combined. Damn. Them fightin’ words.
Of course, that also not-so-subtly speaks to Microsoft’s own web browser, Internet Explorer, being by far the biggest in the world — despite falling market share. But it’s a bit odd for Microsoft to call all those other browsers out since Silverlight not only works on all of them, but to some extent needs them, if it’s to survive.
What’s impressive in Silverlight’s big install number is that it’s just for version 2, which was only released about 6 months ago. That was undoubtedly thanks largely to a few huge events that used the Silverlight platform to stream on the web recently: notably, March Madness and President Obama’s Inauguration. And Microsoft is going to need those kind of deals if it’s going to be able to compete with its aforementioned real competitor: Flash, which has something ridiculous like a 99% adoption rate on U.S. web-connected computers.
One of those big partnerships for Silverlight was Major League Baseball’s MLB.com live-streaming service. But back in November, the league announced it would drop Silverlight in favor of Flash. The stated reason was the Flash performs better, though specifics weren’t given. Since that time however, Microsoft has released the beta version of Silverlight 3 and even won an Emmy for the Olympics coverage last summer.
Microsoft estimates that some 300,000 developers and designers are working on the Silverlight platform. But it’s still going to be about big time partnerships in getting people people to use it instead of, or at least along with Flash. I fall into that latter category for that very reason. I have Silverlight on my computer simply to be able to stream Netflix movies. That’s a huge partnership for the platform, and one that isn’t likely to go away considering that Netflix CEO Reed Hastings is on Microsoft’s board of directors.
Microsoft recently revamped its Silverlight blog and is looking for feedback on it.
Our next project is silverlight based. I love it.
Wait until it’s your current project.
next version of silverlight will be in 6 different versions…
silverlight basic,
silverlight home,
silverlight business,
silverlight enterprise,
silverlight datacenter,
silverlight world
http://www.livbit.com
Actually, it’s also interesting that they’re pitting it against Adobe AIR with the new desktop features in Silverlight 3. That could actually be their biggest selling point, given the problems people have had with AIR. It will require them to execute well, but it’s definitely a big bonus if they get it right. My initial thoughts: Someone just needs to make a killer Twitter app
For sure, that will be an interesting aspect.
what the twitter app? or desktop features?
Well, the Twitter app of course.
Its because they don’t want to mention how they stack up to Flash.
I personally have an app installed more times than a computer keyboard has ‘0′ keys.
Let’s reframe the statement:
“Publishing a Silverlight solution is like launching a website that fails to work on all versions of Internet Explorer.”
Numbers-wise.
And so my rhetorical question to you, as a theoretical product manager, is: What would be *your* call?
(fwiw, not jabbing at your comment, java1)
For me, the biggest ++ is that you can program Silverlight in C#.
microliars
nah, just rhetoric. it’s your garden-variety choosing your statistics to fit the model, in this case taking the form of an argument from authority.
for whatever it’s worth, i imagine “300MM” is about the number of people who watch at least one of the World Series, The Olympics, and the Super Bowl. Basically, the viewership of the events for which Microsoft has been able to secure exclusives on, which has been the only way they can get people to use SL. A leopard can’t change its spots, and Microsoft can’t stop creating business models where the only mechanism for takeup is forced usage.
Actually no – the Olympics had both Flash and Silverlight versions available. The difference is that the average Flash session was 3 minutes long, while the average Silverlight session was 21 minutes.
BTW, the silverlight website is http://www.silverlight.net not .com.
Finally, it’s worth noting that no one has independently verified Adobe’s claim of Flash’s penetration. It’s 90%+, but it’s not 99%.
Interesting article and as someone whom came up with the Fun Facts and Blog I have to say its based on factual data. Prove us wrong is all i can say to the nay-sayers.
Let’s do the math just to be sure i didn’t leave anything out:
Over 1billion+ people online right (your millage on how many vary depending on which research paper you read).
Adobe have stated average 8-18million downloads per day of Flash are occurring.
1billion – 365×8million = 98%?
Did i miss a number anywhere? because mine doesn’t come to 98% of 1billion.
No matter what plug-in you use, abandonment rates may still end up being your actual measurement of success vs failure. As no matter what option you choose, your job isn’t done and it’s still about driving solicitation towards the said experience you produced.
Just because you spent $20k+ on an agency to build out a Flash / Silverlight experience won’t guarantee you absolute success – ubiquity aside.
Lots of these arguments seem to gloss over this, and it’s at no wonder the industry is at a paralyzed state where ubiquity is all folks focus on and less around how to yield a return on investment with the said technology.
Nobody forced 300million people to install, they did so willingly and for every negative comment i read, i see dozens more positive.
-
Scott Barnes
Rich Platforms Product Manager
Microsoft.
OK fine, let me spell out my point for you, then: I imagine “300MM” is somewhere close to the number of viewers for at least one of the events that Microsoft inked exclusives.
“no one has independently verified Adobe’s claim of Flash’s penetration. It’s 90%+, but it’s not 99%.”
Millward-Brown conducts the audit and is independent, as was NPD/MediaMetrix before them. Most sites find their own experience agrees.
No use arguing over decimals. The principle is that the big thing almost all browsers have in common is Flash.
jd/adobe
Who cares about how much Silverlight installed vs Safari, Firefox and Chrome. Those are Web browsers, that doesn’t even make sense. How are they holding up against Flash is all that matters.
Microsoft does, apparently.
But really, they just said it to give some idea of how big the install base is. But yes, it’s small compared to Flash still.
I’m not sure it matters either – it’s apples to oranges. Installing Flash or Silverlight isn’t an option if you want to use sites that are developed on those technologies. It’s kind of like boasting how many tires you sold when you are a car dealership (you sell four tires with each auto). Silverlight usage is a direct reflection on the beat of the developer community IMO – the end users could care less – they just click Next… Next… Next…
How many uninstalls have there been? That’s an important figure.
So very smart of microsoft! They understand that the platform budgeting decisions in many companies is done by clueless mba’s who wouldnt really understand what silverlight’s real competition is . And some statement like this is gona have them open up their wallets..
Kick a** strategy!
When the actual statistics make you look bad, use something else, even if it’s nonsensical.
They don’t want to talk about Flash vs. Silverlight – never pick a battle you know you will lose.
In a sense this is measuring apples and oranges, unless you’re just looking at the sheer number of downloads. Even if it is just the sheer numbers I have a hard time seeing the “fact” above as true. I may not be aware of all the developers that use Silverlight but I think the only place a REALLY remember the platform was for the Olympics. Call me a MS hater, even though I’m currently writing from a PC but this is pretty hard to believe.
Microsoft has perfected R&D – Rip off & Duplicate.
Didn’t they host the site for the Olympics also though? That could easily get a lot of people into downloading it. They had a really impressive trailer for Halo when it came out too. Who knows. I think developing on Flash is becoming slightly better now too though with Flex (now being renamed to Flash Builder apparently)
Microsoft is at it again, the old and clumsy dinosaur is looking to expand it’s waistline into areas it need not be. The virus which is Microsoft continues to spread it’s bug-driven software to every platform imaginable. Good move by mba.com and evil empire move by netflix! Conflict of interest much? Please join fellow intelligible people in an up rise against the said software dictatorship a coup d’etat! Don’t download SilverCRap@!!!!!
Hate, hate, and more hate… I’ve seen Adobe become a huge monopoly in graphics software and nobody says boo (Particularly after acquiring Macromedia; I couldn’t believe there were no lawsuits… just silence). Don’t you see that when Microsoft (the devil’s company for sure!) and other companies jump into the market, you and I (the consumers) win? Competition = better and/or cheaper products as companies strive for that competitive “edge”.
Instead of shooting down any competition coming from Microsoft, or anyone else for that matter, realize that we benefit from it.
I totally agree… Adobe and Macromedia are too strong together.
As a developer, given the choice between Silverlight and Flash I will choose Silverlight every time.
Amen!
(I’m a sw-developer)
They even helped the mono project port to Linux… They must be serious
It seems like they would do better to have a decent browser that maintained it’s market share. They certainly have past experience making something succesful through bundling and could potentially do it with silverlight.
Instead they have a browser that’s losing market share regardless of the fact that it is bundled with the most used operating system. And yet they continue to put out sub-par versions of Internet Explorer while introducing browser add-ons to compete with already successful products. Images of broken carts and tripping horses are filling my imagination…
They believe in Silverlight, except with it comes to their own promotions:
http://www.zunepass.net/ is all Flash…
Ha, thats great.
This makes sense because Flash is still main stream and when you are making an advertising campagin you are not dropping 75% of the internet, they are ambicious not stupid
Worth noting that it turned up as a recommended download on Vista’s update
I’ve seen this stated elsewhere too but Silverlight is not being pushed out to unsuspecting people via Microsoft Update. Updates to old versions of Silverlight are recommended on Microsoft Update but it isn’t recommended if you don’t have it. It’s there on Microsoft Update as an optional thing if you want it but it’s something you have to explicitly ask for.
This is silly. So long as Internet Explorer has > 50% of the market, any feature Microsoft pushes out to all Internet Explorer users will at least be installed on “more computers than Firefox, Chrome, and Safari combined.”
Absolutely. Too bad journalists and bloggers are terrible at math.
@EH,
That’s impossible as to put that notion out there would be more than 100% of the US Population would have watched NBC Olympics. Which unless you’ve found a way to grow the US population in the last 24hrs than most census data has declared, its a false acquisition to throw out there.
You give us way to much credit for one event
heh – I don’t think there is a data service around that could cope with that much demand for one event.
Sorry, silverlight SUCKS.
Crashes my Mac constantly.
“Mac”
Therein lies your problem.
Sorry, couldn’t resist. Seriously though, you’re right… I wish Microsoft wasn’t so adamant of making their stuff work well on other platforms. I waited ages for a good port of .NET to Linux (Mono… please)… Ended up switching back to Windows. C# is too beautiful a language.
And how does Flash work for you on your Mac? I’ve heard many Mac users actually say that Silverlight performs better for them than Flash.
Screw that. We’ve already endured and barely survived one era of Microsoft-ironfisted hegemony. We won’t ever forget that nor will we allow that to happen again. If one thing is to be learned from last decade, it’s that Microsoft will exploit any business condition to force us back into the days of “Only Works in IE 6 + ActiveX”
So you will be the last man standing while everything around you will be changed, sorry body, Microsoft knows what they’re doing
tool.
No they don’t. Microsoft doesn’t know what they are doing, and they don’t know what’s best for anyone other than Microsoft. They are a dinosaur, making a last ditch effort to hang onto their fading monopoly.
The world is becoming enlightened and is moving on from the MS way of doing business.
In your dreams.
fanboi blabla – only trust developers who worked with both – flash and silverlight -I did -> 100% for Silverlight!
Thats maybe they pushed it by Windows Update? (If it’s true btw)
Yes! I guess thats the only way they could have achieved it.
Does it really matter? As a developer, I want everyone to have it installed. I don’t care how it got there.
Did you ever buy a Dell, HP or IBM computer with Flash pre-installed? Did that make you mad at Adobe for paying those companies to pre-install it?
I don’t think it really matters how many people installed Silverlight. What really matters is how many sites are using it. I have Silverlight installed but can’t remember the last time I went to a site that needed. In fact, I am almost certain that the reason I installed it was for a Microsoft site.
True! All this nonsense about Flash being on more computers doesn’t really matter. The fact is, IF you have a site that people want to experience, people will download the plugin needed to view your content (as long as the plugin size is acceptable).
If (and that is a BIG if) YouTube switched to Silverlight tomorrow, people would download it so that they could still experience the site without interruption (as long as Silverlight worked as well as Flash and on the same OS platforms as Flash).
The hurdle Microsoft will have is convincing sites to either abandon their Flash investment (development \ design software, SWF assets, training costs, etc) or at least add a Silverlight option to their site.
I currently own Adobe CS4 Master Collection and some Lynda training DVD’s, so my web design/development budget is already spent and I can’t afford to just stop using my new software and get, learn, use another technology right now.
So, the true decision makers in this battle will be the site and content creators.
Make no mistake; Silverlight has HUGE potential in the enterprise market. Using C# or VB.net to create business web applications on a corporate intranet would be a godsend. I have worked in companies that have used java for these intranet apps and there have always been issues. Silverlight would be awesome in that space since there are normally VS developers at these larger corporations.
Professional designers will flock toward Adobe, because they provide the toolsets that caters to them. And VS developers will flock toward Silverlight, because VS is simply the best IDE for developers I have ever seen.
There is room for BOTH Silverlight and Flash in the web world. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. Both companies will compete with each other and try to make their software better than the others. And that IS what I want to see.
Can’t wait to see what Silverlight v4 and Flash v11 will do….
Fix the link to silverlight home page
it is http://www.silverlight.net not .com
The whole message they are trying to say, that Silverlight which is about 2 years old platform reached 300,000 million users around the world, while flash got his 99% in about 10 years, so you do the math
Flash started from scratch. Silverlight totally piggybacks Windows. It’s not innovation, it’s lazy adoption.
Ummm, you’ve got it backwards I think. Silverlight doesn’t ship with Windows but Flash did for years.
Well, netflix decided to use it. I believe I read a story where it worked so well they had to lay off all of the people they hired for technical support for the new at the time netflix streaming service.
Yep, I did: http://newteeve...es-silverlight/
Anyways, silverlight works very well, and is definitely niche. WPF is essentially the same as silverlight, which can use the standard codebehind of C#, which is very nice.
It was really easy and cost effective to develop Shidonni (the creative virtual world for kids) using Silverlight vs Flash. I think Shidonni.com is still the biggest interactive production on Silverlight so far. I know our visitors are part of these 300M downloads
ah, didn’t knew it.. it is nice.
but the biggest interactive productions in silverlight must be steel guard, the silverlight info map (from microsoft), photosynth, deepzoom, joe rassic, coolab, snapflow and mushiniks a multi player game for kids..
Perfect trojan to monopolized the internet. Good job Microsoft.
Microsoft’s Silverlight.com is competing against Adobe Flash? What an ironic pun, but Silverlight.com is photography.
You know how MS had to bribe Lauren to buy a Windows PC instead of a Mac? Well, MS had to bribe a few big companies to have them use Silverlight. I guess the belieguered MS has money left to burn.
I visited the MS site that required S instead of Flash. I closed the window; Why should I download yet another plugin when MS has the capability to adapt to Flash?
Bottom line is that I would download this S. plugin if Apple, which works closely with MS, recommends it. So far, it has not so I don’t use it.
Hmm, supporting one monopoly over the other and not downloading another plugin… I assume you also skipped quick time?
Well, hmmm, I support legal, i.e., non-predatory monopolies, you know, like ATT or Apple, while not necessarily supporting illegal, i.e., predatory monopolies like, you know, Intel or MS. You too should not fear supporting legal, non-predatory monopolies, and you should demonstrate good citizenship by doing something similar.
Well John, why don’t you open that MAC of yours and send us a picture of the Intel logo stamped on the chipset. Unless your machine is over 5 years old it’s Intel. While you are at it why don’t you grab an Iphone, Ipod, or older Apple and tell us what “predatory monopolies” make those too. I’ll give you a hint they are all former Ma Bell companies.
Nobody uses Macs. So I guess Microsoft bribed 90% of the people (and like 99% of the businesses) out there then?
“Nobody?” Are you sure that you want to debate this over-the-top conclusion? I don’t think so. I say that someone uses a Mac. I present the “Lauren is Given Money for a PC” commercial as evidence that MS thinks that people are buying Macs. Who am I going to believe, Wayne or Microsoft?
i call bullshit.
fyi MSFT’s Silverlight homepage is at silverlight.net not dot com.
Sooo….the question I have is:
Is Silverlight eroding Flash at the same rate that IE is being eroded by FF, Safari, & Chrome?
I don’t think so.
People can use SL & Flash in the same browser, but most don’t people only use one primary browser?
Seems like a lame thing to come out and say…
Microsoft’s 300 million Silverlight installs, is just as useless as Adobe’s 100 million AIR installs, when you don’t know how many of those are unique installs and how many of those are people reinstalling it. Ted Patrick from Adobe from Adobe used to have a counter on his website tracking how many Flash Player 9 installs there were. Before it was removed it was way over 4 billion! That’s not a typo *4 billion*!! There aren’t that many computers out there with internet access, but that number kept going up on a regular basis with people re-installing Flash for whatever reason, plus also Flash updates.
Also to those who think plugin penetration statistics do not matter, the reality of it is while a number of people will install a new plugin, there’s always some who won’t and how big that number is can effect business. It then becomes a business decision and the majority of companies tend to be very conservative so that their website or their application has the widest reach. Flash Player 10 may have great new features and already over 54% penetration, likely far beyond what Silverlight 2 is at, but until Flash Player 10 reaches over 90% or higher for some most will stick with Flash Player 9.
As of June 2009 Adobe reports 86.7% have installed Flash 10. That’s getting pretty close to 90%.
It will become the next winner for bad product
Why is this a surprise? They pushed it out to all users via Windows Update.
I see no reason to have it cluttering up my machine so turned it off.
silver light installs automatically with applications so Im sure these results arent as accurate as we are hearing
Turn it off then. Stick your head in the sand and adhere to whatever techo-dogma you believe; I suspect eventually you will be turning it on (some killer-app may catch your eye). Silverlight has not yet attained mainstream, but I doubt it will be long before developers flock in droves and interesting applicatations regularly appear. I have nothing against Flash/Air and see no reason to denigrate it for the things it may lack in comparison along feature sets. It just boggles me the negativity that some exhibit with regards to anything microsoft produces. Seems trite after a while.
>> Scott Barnes (@MossyBlog) – May 18th, 2009 at 5:02 pm PDT
>> Scott Barnes Rich Platforms Product Manager
I didn’t read any of that. So riddle me this high ranking Microcr*p employee – if it’s better than sliced bread – what are you doing in a comment thread trying to prove that’s the case?
In a comment thread!
Okay, okay, I know the PR department wrote that up for “you” – and that “you” aren’t even “you”. You weren’t even here – some cubicle-peon is copy and pasting it for you – but still. For all of that to happen. It has to be a corporate strategy.
And, heck, Micrcr*p never lies! Or am I wrong? And Scott are you really out there?
How old are you, 12?
>> It just boggles me the negativity that some exhibit with regards to anything microsoft produces.
Real comment – or somebody on the Redmond payroll?
I’m real. I know that much…
Good to know that you’re real. Myself? I’m not on the payroll; not even Scott for that matter…maybe that makes me “real” as well. My, aren’t we a cynical bunch.
So “Joe”; is there anything other then “microcr*p”, or “peon” you can offer up as an insult? I mean, come on, if you’re going to offend somebody then at least put some originality into it. I await a good one
The link to Silverlight should be http://silverlight.net, not .com
Silverlight is as impressive as Flash. Just different vendors.
However, I like MS photosynths that utilizes Silverlight.
@Joe:
You’ll find if you do a search on me prior to Microsoft and Post Microsoft employment I often leave comments on blogs. I like to participate in all levels of discussions and the day folks expect high ranking Microsoftees to stop this is a very sad day for us all
Having said that, can we focus on the topic and not drive down the ad hominem attack route?
Scott.
- I do agree Flash is by far the leading Platform.
+ Force : leader of the leader.
+ Weakness : I only see one … for the moment not too many “powerfull” APIs out of the 2D images API.
- Sylverlight …. not too bad after all.
+ Force : Microsoft … they have time and money
+ Weakness : Microsoft … Many people prefer the open source cheap tools. can’t blame them for that
- jaFx-java : After all after the 2008 ungly release it is getting quite good. Productivity is really there and display is actually good. Really a good Flash competitor if you are java developper.
+ Force : You can use the hundreds of Open source API the java ecosystem has.
+ Weakness : 2D graphic Tools are still young comapre to Adobe ones.
Who cares about how its doing compared to Firefox etc…its how its performing compared to Flash!
…later realizing that 1+1=2
thats great.
Ah, so reinstalls are counted? That explains it.
It’s true, but Firefox, Safari and Chrome aren’t installed by brute force via Windows Update.
Ok, long time reader, first time writer here, but I had to chime in on this one…
I definitely agree about the brute force comment. How many of those “installs” are because of how Microsoft plasters their sites with the in-your-face install banners? Or putting it in Microsoft Update no matter how many times you tell it to never be shown again? Not to mention how many people installed it ONLY to get Netflix streaming on their computer? Or to watch the Olympics last year? They did not want “Silverlight”, they just wanted a site and Silverlight was the method that was forced on them. The install numbers are not accurate.
That said, Safari and Chrome numbers are not anywhere close to accurate either, but at least it is not as forced.
How many times have you purchased a computer that had Flash pre-installed? How many times have you gone to a site that had in-your-face Flash banners? How do you think Adobe got Flash 10 on so many machines? (Hint: Flash 9 had an automatic updater that installed it for them.)
People don’t love Flash, the install it because some website tells them to. What’s your problem?
Silverlight is better than Flash when it comes to business apps, which has always been Microsoft’s strength. Programming in C#/XAML is much more appealing to businesses than Actionscript/MXML.
Flash will likely always have a larger base on the OUTSIDE, but within corporations, Silverlight is already starting to take over. It’s strengths are things that the average user doesn’t really care about. But, within large corporations, Silverlight programmers are now in HIGH demand.
Who needs it.
Silverlight did NOT win an Emmy as stated in above. NBC did for their coverage. I have yet to find anything saying they would not have won it using Flash or anything else.
In my opinion, as a Certified MS Developer, I like the fact that you can code against Silverlight in VB or C# however, this is just another thing that MS will compete in and unfortunately fail at. If MS really wants to succeed than MS needs to focus on the core of its business, ie. Windows, Office. They should leave search to Google or even partner with them and leave web animation to Adobe.
Its simple, Visual Studio based developers prefer Silverlight because of the C# coding. Non VS/C# coders prefer Flex because its based on Actionscript.
Developers code in what they are comfortable with. Then the consumers of the content just install whatever player they need to see the latest, baseball, olympics, movies, porn, etc that they need.
Mom and dad don’t care what the player is as long as it works on their Pentium 2 and installs quickly without a reboot.
It goes a little deeper than that. Silverlight, because it is based on the .NET framework foundation allows you to write any compatible CTS language.
That is pretty important. Everyone looks at this as a VB/C# vs ActionScript. Silverlight also allows you to write in a new functional paradigm using F# (where functions are the first class objects). Want to use a dynamic language?…you can do that as well.
With Flex, you are “forced” to use ActionScript. The problem with that is that use lose flexibility. That is a key difference between Adobe supporting a single language like ActionScript vs .NET Framework which supports statically typed, dynamically typed, functional and OOP languages that can all be used together.
I am a site security programmer and project manager. I have programmed in both Silverlight and Flash. You can hide most of your Silverlight code in a “code behind” file like .net. And with the hardware verified DRM (we all love that word) implemented with Silverlight, you don’t have to worry as much about your content wondering off. By the way, DRM is where Silverlight isn’t compatible with other browsers. IE has always been fused with the Windows OS.
As for the numbers given by Microsoft. They have to face the fact that Silverlight isn’t fully compatible with non IE browsers. As a site manager, if you aren’t going to make the investment in flash. You want to know who in the market you are actually going to be missing? And will they use your site in a degraded mode?
In my experience. If you are running a simple site that uses active 2D content, stick with flash for compatibility. However if you are running a site that is displaying active data or streaming DRM, then use Silverlight with .net and Ajax.