Lots of heat is being put on Facebook over Holocaust denial, ranging from blogs to CNN to pissed off moms who still can’t post pictures of their breasts on their Facebook pages. Facebook is standing firm in their defense of the deniers.
Meanwhile, MySpace is just hoping no one looks their way. In an email to MySpace forum moderators today, MySpace asked moderators to “keep an eye out for anti-semitism and derogatory comments.” Based on the text of the email, some of which has been redacted, it looks like moderators are expected to remove this content promptly and even perhaps ban offending users.
MySpace’s motivation to deal with the problem may be fairly sad (just to avoid bad press), but at least they’re doing the right thing by getting this hate speech off the site. MySpace’s terms of use are similar to Facebook’s – specifically hate speech is banned.
Here’s the email:
Holocaust Denial
This is a hot topic right now. Keep an eye out for anti-semitism and derogatory comments.
If you ban a user for this, please leave the ban info here.
[redacted]
Please include links of deleted posts as well.
Thanks guys.
We’ve reached out to MySpace for comment on their official policy on Holocaust denial.
lol… wtf
Open debates have been the norm of the internet. Why is not MySpace able to support this? Is it trying to play safe by avoiding such topics. Restrictions and rules hinder a community’s growth and I strongly condemn MySpace’s instructions to its moderators. Btw, these are just debates and why not there be freedom of speech for such debates?
It is work of moderators to ensure no hate speech as per TOS. Site owners cant see to each forum out in wild.
Also Arrington is asking wikipedia people to delete Holocaust Denial article, he says Holocaust denial didn’t exist in past and that denial is hoax.
Arrington Denies the Holocaust Denial!
Hey Buddies,
I think this is absolutely great! Go Mike!
MA
MySpace should have nothing to worry about. Facebook is correct to stand back and allow this discussion to go on unfettered. Facebook should not prevent people from discussing historical events. And should not prevent people from expressing their views on history even when their views are widely known to be factually incorrect. It is far more damaging to society to constrain free speech than to allow offensive speech.
I agree 100% with that.
What happen to Freedom Of Speech, they should be allowed to discuss it as they please..
Are you kidding me? “Discussing historical events”? It’s like deneying there was slavery of African Americans in the U.S.A. It is a criminal offense in many European countries. You call it “discussing historical events”?
I bet you live in a trailer park in Texas.
So if i say “40k german soldiers died”, the actual number is 1.7 million is that being a holocaust denier?
Or am I a holocaust denier only if i messed with the “jewish deaths”?
Why is it the Jews have a trademark on the term Holocaust even though over 56 million people died during WW2, that includes 20 million russians(7.7 were civilians)????
U dumb @SS! The Russians weren’t singled out for inhalation; the Jews were. Besides, if the Russians hadn’t made that pact with the devil regarding Poland, they probably wouldn’t have had so many casualties. Read a book you idiot! I agree with censorship because of people like you, who drink the koolaid without knowing sh!t.
I think it’s all a bunch of crap. Too many dumb@ss people in this world. Read the facts!!
There is a difference between a “war” and “racial enialation”. I simply can not believe there are people with this mindset.
Really nice step because some spammers spam too much.This is the way to wastage of the time of moderators.
Really good step.
sorry?
I think he’s saying you look like the guy on the far right in the picture above.
Hehehe, Sorry I just couldn’t help it.
Interesting choice of a picture for this the post – sends a very strong message on TechCrunch’s position on the issue.
just facilitating an open debate on this topic. like facebook.
I generally support TechChrunch’s stance on open debates, and enjoy many of the provocative posts. Well done guys.
Yeah, thanks for keeping the heat up on FB.
You gotta win this man!
Exactly what “debate” is there on this subject?
to ban or not to ban, that is the debate. (as I understand it)
Not much debate, just M.A. trying to push up his page views — notice how many posts there have been on this non-issue.
Hey Mike how about asking google to stop indexing known “hate sites” next?
How about confederate groups that deny basic facts about the underlying causes of the civil war?
etc.
Yeah I don’t really side with TC on this issue here. Yes, its sad that such people exist who promote hatred, but where is the end to it if you start moderating them manually?
Your right, in north america on both sides of the border we value freedom of speech. It is what makes us different than Nazi Germany. It is what our grand parents died for. It is sexy to attack facebook for standing up for that freedom… like little sheep we all go bahh bahhh… for what… because we need people to see the world as we do… does it matter? so some trolls like to say the holocaust didn’t happen? Do we not trust the evidence? Are we so insecure that we have to take away attention from the genocide that actually is happening in this world… All a person has to do is talk of such things and like sheep we all react… can you imagine the rush some troll is getting now that we have given that person there 15 minutes of fame… it a shame because I can think of a lot of hurting, poor people during this time who could actually use the 15 minutes…
Its just not as sexy as attacking facebook is it mike..bahh..bahh
Right, the picture should be banned.
I’m surprise some people think, there’s no Debate and it’s just about pageviews, I guess you have no Idea about the Holocaust and all those hate driven peoples. (beta comment)
You are right I don’t, I think it is a publicity stunt for M.A.
I have strong opinions on the Holocaust and historical and on-going atrocities against various racial and ethnic groups around the globe, that doesn’t mean I’m willing to allow some one to create an artificial crisis to improve their page views.
First it was twitter madness and now its holocaust … twitter was more interesting.
I take twitter over this sensationalist stuff. I’m wondering if MA is trying to use this to get broader publicity. Just by the zeal he is going after this issue, there has to be more to it. (I’ll be he might remove this comment like my previous ones)
Yes. Reading on CNN about this topic yesterday there was a reference to TechCrunch getting involved in this issue. It crossed my mind that Mike is doing this to draw broader exposure for himself and TC. Very smart of him. But the broader attack on Facebook is a very well orchestrated plan to keep the holocaust top of mind. Mike is just a bit player in the scope of things.
Michael
Another great post here, yesterday when you post the Facebook position, i was shocked not only as a Jew but as a guy that use Social Media to explore how Politics use it. I translate your post to Hebrew yesterday and post it in my blog with a feedback to your great work on that issue,
The MySpace post today make me realize that websites still sense as you say yesterday that although freedom of speech and free press especialy on the web, you need to draw your lines. As you said there are modern western country that steam for a western values of freedom of speech but regard that Holocaust there are strict lines that can not be cross.
I am not telling you, you are doing great work with your post, but for me as a Politics and Internet researcher it is a huge step to understand the differences between websites that already make a lot of impact on people lives.
@iPolitics
thanks Jacob.
however, I’ll be having my lawyers contact you on that unauthorized translation and copyright violation.
Lol,
Great work you are doing! It is not only that it is an important issue on itself, it is important for every human debate on the impact of large websites on people lives. And with the growth of recruiting terrorist with Social Media these issues must be brought to the table and the public awareness and thank you for doing that!
Facebook also supports other forms of hate speech such as ” I Love Slavery” group with comments such as ” LYNCH DA NIGGERS.” Here: http://tiny.cc/0OZ14. Hope the link works.
Well yeah, and the groups like “f*ck Islam” etc, so hey TC talk about the hate speech in general, anti-Semitic is hatred, but so is anti-Islam, anti-arabs, anti-blacks and the likes.
Supporting hate speech and recognizing the need for free speech are not the same thing, you goddamn fucking retard.
Jesus Arrington, get off your high horse.
I’m not sure who looks worse, the people who are idiotically claiming the Holocaust never happened, or you trying to shut them up.
The best disinfectant for bad speech is better speech. Do you think by banning Holocaust deniers from Facebook, they’re suddenly going to change their views? Or that by keeping them on there, they’re going to convert the rest of us?
Instead, this whole affair by you and Cuban has probably given them way more attention than they’ve ever had since the Irving trial. Congratulations.
And let me again quote from Justice Douglas’ eloquent dissent in Dennis v. United States, replacing all instances of Communists with Neo-Nazis.
“[Neo-Nazis] in this country have never made a respectable or serious showing in any election. I would doubt that there is a village, let alone a city or county or state, which the [Neo-Nazis] could carry.
“How it can be said that there is a clear and present danger that this advocacy will succeed is, therefore, a mystery. … [I]n America, they are miserable merchants of unwanted ideas; their wares remain unsold. The fact that their ideas are abhorrent does not make them powerful.”
Well said.
good stuff j.d.
I don’t think that TC is really “facilitating an open debate on this topic.” Michael, by using phrases such as “at least they’re doing the right thing by getting this hate speech off the site”, you give up any claim of neutrality. I think you should be a little clearer on whether you are reporting the news or editorializing.
Personally, I believe that for free speech to stay in existence, people must accept the right of others to voice controversial viewpoints. However bad the things that some say may be, they still have the right to say those things.
I think it’s time for Facebook to actually ignore the public for once, and just do what it thinks is right.
I believe you all are missing MA’s point.
Facebook has determined that depictions of breastfeeding are horrible and need to be banned from their site. But hate speech is just fine.
I, for one, don’t get their logic.
Must be a slow time of year for Tech News.
I guess that explains all the Twitter posts?
Not Jewish here but I’d like to see Facebook do something about this crap sooner than later.
Guys, I know the whole Holocaust thing is important, but we are skipping over a crucial issue in this whole debate:
When will Facebook start letting hot moms show us their breasts again?
Please keep on top of this important situation, Mike. Millions of mildly-pervy netizens are counting on you.
Also, no need to thank me for keeping this primary issue at the forefront of the debate. Just doing my duty as a citizen journalist.
I’m getting really bored with the whole premise that FB are wrong in not shutting these people up.. Don’t get me wrong – people denying holocaust are not only insensitive, they’re downright naive too, but they are also entitled to express themselves as long as they’re not threatening anyone..
I’m not jewish and I’m certainly not old enough to have experienced the holocaust, but I can see why some people would be offended.. The problem is, that’s something we’re going to have to live with – especially on the internet!
So please, Mr. Arrington – accept the fact that Facebook’s stand on this isn’t wrong, or tell me why you and get the right to express our opinions and these idiots don’t..
That being said, I think Facebook is way too rigid when it comes to other subjects.. It would suit them to be more open and reflect the world as it is, rather than how a few of their users would like it to be.. The lowest common denominator of tolerance is nothing to aim for!
It’s not that they’re threatening anyone. It’s seriously offensive. No one wants to hear their rants. This type of stuff would not fly on the forums that I run.
Funny that you don’t want to hear their rants. Neither do I, and I never would have if not for all of these posts by Arrington. Is somebody making you join the Holocaust denial groups on Facebook?
Because of our principles of free speech in the United States, the KKK are allowed to preach their bigoted ideas to whoever wants to listen. How’s that working out for them? Last I heard, their membership was down to 6000 people in a nation of over 300 million.
The freedom of speech is – The Freedom of Speech. Anyone purveying their wears, whether they be a blog, merchandise or a service that relies on others reading the content they create needs to defend the right of all other people to speak their mind. Even if that speech is bad, offensive, or hateful in their own opinion. The freedom of speech is just that, whether you like it or not. Shut up and make your own statements. Don;t spend your own free speech trying to curtail that of others.
Freedom of speech pertains to the government not curtailing your right to say anything you want. It has nothing to do with what a private company can or can’t do.
Using TechCrunch to rally against the holocaust deniers. Way to ruin your brand. Arrington needs to go.
LOL….Spot on there recipe….3 posts about deniers in 1 day!! what the hell?!! this is a TECH post not POLITICAL POST…if i wanted to go read politics i would of jumped on the thousands of other sites on the net….
and Also…Zuckerburg is Jewish.
So come on mate grow up.
he’s a jew so that’s ok? Dumb ass.
and?
Enough already Mike. I believe the holocaust happened but also that the sky is green.
Heil Arrington! Our tech fuhrer, thank you. Thank you for pushing our country to be more like Germany!
Milk this topic to the bone Mike. Let’s drive those pageviews up. Next, let’s look at how Twitter, Linkedin, Hi5, Beebo, Friendster, etc are all going to handle your precious pet peeve of a topic. Yes, I’m adding to it by this comment but what the hell.
Wait, isn’t Mark Zuckerberg Jewish? He doesn’t seem to have a problem with free speech. All these hate groups exist on Facebook et al exist because they exist in real life! Regardless of what any social networks tries to do to censor free speech, they won’t deter hate and will only encourage it. Here is a piece of advice Mike, stop treating Jewish people as if their a special nation because they’re not. They are so many other atrocities occurring in the world today. Racism, Hatred, and Genocide affect people irrespective of race, creed, or color. You tend to only discuss the plight of Jewish people and frankly it is manifesting to be your bias. Let’s be objective and stick to technology-related news. People don’t visit your site to be informed about “jew-haters” or any “haters” for that matter.
Facebook is a private entity so by definition ‘Free Speech’ related-laws do not apply here. They can allow or ban anything on their site at their own discretion.
Therefore, it’s fair to say that taken as a whole, Facebook’s content represent their opinions as an entity.
I think this makes the debate very relevant indeed.
I love seeing these replies. People touting that free speech doesn’t matter because facebook is a private company. Does that mean BP can force relocate individuals because their human rights don’t matter and BP is a private company? No.
People like you keep saying facebook can do as they like, and they have. They have chosen to support free speech, and good on them for having the courage to do such.
wonder why TC hasn’t fired this retard, who has single-handedly ruined the last shred of respect I had for this blog.
Please attempt to recognize the inane idiocy of what you just said.
Goddamnit Techcrunch, I’m absolutely sick of this shit. Stop posting about it.
I’ve never commented on here before, but this situation is extremely infuriating. I’m a defender of freedom of speech, even if it’s speech I disagree with (and I’m disgusted by).
You’re attacking a right I hold dear viciously, making the web another place where people cannot speak their minds. You’re trying to blow this out of proportion as much as possible, and I don’t believe you will stop until Facebook can be added as another victim of your fascist censorship campaign.
I’m removing my subscription to your RSS feed.
Let’s not deny the Holocaust, let’s deny the Jews!
Let’s not deny the Holocaust, let’s deny the posts about Twitter!
Let’s be precise and keep in mind the different levels.
- You can be against the government of Israel and their acts… this is just a political opinion. The freedom of speech applies, many Israelis are even sharing this position.
- If you’re anti-Israel regardless the current government, and question the legitimacy of the country existence… then you’re still having a hard-line (and wrong) political opinion. As soon as you don’t call for hate nor destruction, then you have the right to express yourself and regret history facts.
- If you believe Jews are plotting against the rest of the humanity, if you think they should be categorized because they were born Jews, or if you stand against the very legitimacy for Jews to have a home… then you’re antisemitic or anti-zionist.. This is condemnable like every other form of racism or xenophobia.
- If you’re revisionist, negazionist, if you deny the holocaust existence, then you belong to the worse category that includes pedophiles, suicide group gurus, murder callers, etc. – You’re just standing against humanity. It’s universally unacceptable.
The nazis killed 6 million jews and another 14 million poles, hungarians, slavs, gays, catholic priests, political opponents, french, ducth, etc.
Oh and if you asked a German in 1945 they didn’t know anything about it…. Guess they were all too busy following the Twitter of their time.
U of Hawaii detailed report on nazi Murders:
http://www.hawa...kills/NOTE3.HTM
Michael, you are brave for standing up for what you beleive… don’t let the twits shout you down.
Adam
All this protesting is going to create more Holocaust denial groups.
Really nice steps since there is more spamming on these webstes .This is the way to wastage of the time of moderators.
Wrong as it may be, this is America and I don’t know about other parts of the world but here we have freedom of speech.
There are more than Jews in world that face derogatory statements on these websites every day. Black people get way more attacked than Jewish people so why not defend them. You guys act like slavery never happened every day and I don’t remember seeing anyone black blogging for TechCrunch, but there are Jewish writers there.
How often you think VCs grant black CEOs with capital, they are all racist fucks. Jewish execs are the only way black talent get a chance so thank god for that.
Have you ever tried to catch a cab in Manhattan NYC as a black man? Keep this petty BS Mike, because you are not fighting for all races that go through this, you are only offended and defending that the Jewish community which is very selfish and self-centered.
For gods sake you went in on Facebook about this issue and Zuck as well as other top execs there are Jewish. They cannot control the types of groups that users create and because someone says “Obama is a fraud” (i don’t believe this) should we call Al Sharpton and shut their website down?
While I am in no way agree with bias towards any race or religion, if you want the freedom to get on a blog and talk about the same group of companies without reprimand, and have the freedom to vent on issues that bother you the most, we have to accept freedom of speech on both positive and negative sides to have the right in the first place.
freedom of speech is to keep the government off your back. nothing to do with private companies.
and your comment on “racist fucks” doesn’t jive with your comment on “the jewish community is very selfish and self-centered”. looks like you might be a part of the first group.
This is an inside joke right? Techcrunch reminds me of Fawlty Towers, “Don’t mention the Holocaust Denial” and you keep mention it… You’re hilarious!
Isn’t Zuckerburg Jewish? He should be all over this issue.
‘Steven’, a) you have completely misunderstood my post, and b) you’re wrong.
You’re wrong because you say that Facebook has chosen to represent “Free Speech” and it hasn’t. If it had, it would allow pictures involving breastfeeding, for example.
Here’s a topic for discussion:
If I convert to Judiasm, am I allowed to make Jewish jokes?
(I know… I am not taking credit for that)
What the hell is going on with techcrunch these days
Damn, let go already. I don’t know what’s become more annoying about TechCrunch: the mindless and incessant praise of Twitter or Michael Arrington’s personal crusade against Facebook’s stupid rules.
Why are you so committed to defending an organized religion? Organized religions will always be involved with hatred, conflicts, and problems. Can’t you see what you’re doing is hopeless? The nature of these types of groups creates these types of tense environments. People who form groups without any reason under some unique label (i.e. Jew, Muslim, Christian, etc.) doesn’t make them unique or special. The only reason they do it is to differentiate themselves from others so they can discriminate against others who are not in their “club.” All under the pretense of “moral goodness.” As if good people didn’t exist before they came along. If you want a word for good, why don’t you just use the word good. A little reading about group psychology will explain why and how people behave this way. These types of groups will always attract enemies. If your neighbors formed a group for absolutely no reason other than being “extra friendly” to each other, and at the same time claim they are good folks, are you gonna be happy about that or are you gonna feel pressure? You would probably be fooled by their friendliness, until you realize they’re trying to kick you out from the building to make room for another member. If your client joined this group, who do you think will he consider for his next project? Why else did they form the group? Tell me please, I really want to know. Are you really surprised that there are hate groups against these type of organized groups? There will always be hate groups and most of them are other religious groups. That’s what they do. I can’t believe you’re not discussing the reasons and motivations behind these hate groups. That’s what I would expect from someone who’s trying to solve a problem and do good. You don’t seem to be interested in understanding the situation. Very strange. What exactly are your intentions? Is it possible that you are really just ignorant about this? I expected more from someone in this modern field of work.
why dont you do something useful and go after our (the US) government officials use of torture and the broken laws within the last 8 years?
These HD posts are really getting a bit corny.
I am so sorry to see TechCrunch stoop so low.
I think I have lost all respect for this blog.
I think you should get over this Facebook and the Holocaust thing, who cares!. Many people were massacred over the years and had a Holocaust including the people who died in Japan after the US dropped two nuclear bombs during WWII, and the recent massacre that Israel carried in Gaza. If you want to go about anti-semitism why don’t you talk about the many anti-Islamic groups on Facebook or the groups that mock the Islam prophet, or the many other anti-semitism groups. Get over it guys and report on something useful
the answer is yes. if you convert to judaism you are thenceforth permitted to make jewish jokes. just like how once you convert to black you are allowed to make black jokes.
Mr Arrington,
I am grateful for your continuing coverage of this issue. Its a big shame that Facebook has lost clarity of vision of the nature of free speech and decency.
Holocaust denying is not about the event itself, it’s pure antisemitism. I don’t care what people say, there is no logical reason to bring it up unless you really really hate the jews.
Keep up the pressure to purge facebook of this illness.
Seems to me the only solution is a more thoroughly policed and controlled Internet.
Hopefully with Internet 2 this can become a reality.