Undoubtedly Tesla isn’t going to be happy about this video getting attention, but I think it’s awesome to see CEO Elon Musk take a stand against the company’s many detractors. Last November New York Times writer Randall Stross trashed Tesla as a rich man’s car that the government should shun. “Only the Rich Can Afford It. Should Taxpayers Back It?” he wrote.
Later, the article was much edited after well deserved criticism. Stross also corrected errors suggesting that Tesla’s loan requests were for the $109,000 Roadster, when in fact they were to be used for the $50,000 Model S, their most recent and much more affordable all-electric car.
That rewriting, though, apparently hasn’t appeased Musk. In an interview last week (video above) with Yahoo TechTicker, Musk calls Stross a “huge douchebag…and an idiot” (skip to the 40 second mark) and says “What is he doing picking on an electric car company? Why would he pick on the little guy who is trying to do good when you’ve got egregious waste of money in the tens of billions occurring in Detroit?”
Musk also points out that Tesla investors only make money if the loan is repaid, and that Tesla has applied for just 1.5% of the $25 billion appropriation.
Nicely done, Mr. Musk. I’m definitely going to buy one of your cars.
Maybe he could’ve put it more diplomatically, but he’s right.
tesla can do that “when the debt markets recover”
translation: when the idiots return
It’s unfortunate when someone has to resort to ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the real issues at hand. Many people who don’t know Elon are going to start watching this video and immediately think that he’s a jerk. It’s not a good way to build credibility.
i actually think it was the appropriate response. the nytimes article was inexcusable.
I’m going to agree with Jon and here’s why. Elon is filling the vacuum of information with a response to poor journalism, rather than better information. I will admit, that I thought Tesla was requesting funds to develop essentially a power train rather than an automobile. I found the idea silly in the face of Michellin’s wheel system and similar new ideas.
The response may cure the symptoms, but not through the appropriate channels or methods. They need to address Tesla’s communication. It took me literally days to find out that the S platform was designed in house, and that is all I know.
I couldn’t agree more. In his book ‘Bulls in the China Shop’, Stross recounted an interview I gave in Beijing at the age of 16 (over 20 years ago). I said the food there was better than my mom’s. Stross suggested that the comment was an example of American business’ “ritual incantation” for the purpose of ingratiating itself with the Chinese. He implied that my “treacly effusion” meant “China got Americans to say things that would have been unseemly anywhere else.” That’s a pretty shaky foundation for a hypothesis.
The ad hominem part was only 1.5% of the attack!! He spent the rest of the 7 minutes explaining why Stross is a DB.
Hi this is test
You live in a fantasy land if you think that $50,000 for a car is “affordable”. This is why America has problems now, buying things we don’t need with money we don’t have.
Nobody is saying that’s the sole definition of “affordable,” what the story says (if you read it) is that it’s not a car “only the rich can afford.” Which it isn’t.
A $50,000 car is affordable for only a very small subset of the population and certainly does not represent what the government should be supporting with tax dollars.
The CEOs comments make him look like a rich, spoled baby that does not like people questioning him and his company.
Elon is talking about cars at three tiers … the roadster, the sedan and technology to go in an electric Smart Car. I don’t know if I’d go for a Smart Car, but I’d whip out my check book for an electric Mini
Elon is showing some gumption to correct the idiocy of an erroneous article. Perhaps Audi should have used similarly blunt language in response to the “60 Minutes” reporters who famously lied about their cars. People who use the bully pulpit of major media outlets shouldn’t expect to be treated with kid gloves for their egregious mistakes. (See “Miller, Judy”.)
Elon helped build an internet payment system, an inexpensive way to launch satellites and electric cars. Has your sorry little a** done a fraction of that?
Musk very clearly explains the notion of economies of scale and the fact that it takes time for the price point of any new technology to decline to the point of mass-marketability. Although not everyone can afford a $50,000 car, the Model S has much wider mass-market appeal that the 6-figure Roadster, which Stross’ assumptions were based on. In addition, the Model S will be built by Tesla (as opposed to its earlier models, which it contracted Lotus to build) in a new factory in Southern California, where Tesla will undoubtedly produce even cheaper cars when its costs decline further.
Tesla plans to introduce affordable cars, but it will take time given that the underlying technology is so new. Musk isn’t clueless; he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Hello
what ever happend to spaceX? epic fail.
Musk interview – his car – epic fail all around
On 18 August 2006, SpaceX announced that it has won a NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services (COTS) contract to demonstrate cargo delivery to the space station with a possible option for crew transport.
On 23 December 2008, SpaceX announced that it had won a Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) contract (as part of the COTS program) which guarantees NASA missions worth of 1.6 billion dollars for resupplying the International Space Station after the Space Shuttle retires in 2010. [4]
Doesn’t sound like “fail” to me.
You’re kidding me right? They’re right here:
http://www.spac...com/updates.php
They launch another Falcon 1 in 19 days from now. They will launch a Falcon 9 this year, and be delivering cargo to the ISS next year.
spacex fail? you need to read up on what they’ve done recently.
It’s nauseating to listen to a bunch of losers hating on a doer. SpaceX and Tesla have very bright futures and are likely to have a major impact on a good portion of the world’s population (like Paypal).
Thank you, Elon.
Yeah, there are a ton of Elon haters on all of these message boards. I don’t quite understand it. That guy has balls. And if any of you are entreprenuers, then you should know that you do all that it takes to make a company work. You play every angle. That is how you succeed. If you don’t try, then that is the “epic fail”. I get the feeling there is just a lot of jealousy.
I agree with Dave. “Douchebag” shoudn’t be used by a CEO but he’s right.
While $50,000 may not be “affordable” many people drive $50,000 cars. However, most of them aren’t American. After reading reviews on the new Tesla S (sedan) it has technolgies that other cars just can’t compare. Give them the $, let Silicon Valley shine again.
Musk shouldn’t have said “douchebag?” Even though he was on a menstrual show?
test
“Douchebag” was exactly the word he wanted to use … it got headlines (this post is an example) and allowed his justification of getting govt money to be spread to a wider audience. Smart move.
rather get an electric from one of the majors that’s already on the market… (and at 30% less!!)
musk is a joke… and when he can’t succeed, begs from the gov’t…
so what’s he going to say if the gov’t decides to tell him how to run his biz, as is currently happening with the US/GM??
he’d pitch a bia*ch!!
yes, his move shows a considerable lack of character.
And what about the realities of his electric car, what energy resources are being consumed in order to appear green. And what are their waste products. Electricity is not nearly as green as gasoline. Stop the crybaby antics and produce a viable product.
I’m sorry, did you just say that electric was not nearly as green as gas?
Show me any numbers, anywhere, that prove that. Even coal fired power plants can make your car go cleaner than gas and the entire network of delivery it takes. Not to mention the fact that we have to get it from dubious countries or wildlife preserves in alaska.
I will try to refrain from calling you a douchebag…and an idiot, but go do some research.
Apologies for the negativity.
No apologies needed for the negativity. Steve, you are a douchebag … and an idiot.
Yes, even $50,000 is expensive. But as he stated in the video, no technology starts out as affordable. The $50,000 car is half the price of the previous one. Down the road, when the technology is perfected and mass produced then the cost will come down even further. In the 1980’s PC’s cost $3000 to $5000. Today they cost a few hundred. I’m not in favor of govt. handouts, but if its going to happen, I’d rather see innovators like this getting it than the Detroitosaurs.
Ditto for the most part. Although the NYT article’s point re Moore’s law not applying to batteries seems compelling…
I think the Author of the article was a bit cranky; however, I agree with the point about the “choke point” in battery development.
Musk never really addresses that point in the article, and thus presents sort of a strawman article for investment — that Tesla will be the company to bring cars to the masses.
The real issue should be about:
1.) The technology — does Tesla have a powerhouse R&D facility that is creating new IP?
2.) Job creation / saving — would giving the money to Tesla actually save and/or create jobs?
Musk never really makes a significant point about job creation / job saving at Tesla.
Also, this is NOT criticism unique to Tesla — the administration has basically said to Chrysler LLC (Private company owned by Cerebus — a Private Equity company). You are not viable on your own, we aren’t investing any tax payer dollars in you as a stand-alone company.
Musk is also quite wrong about Ford — Ford HAS NOT accepted money, and as of late says that it does not need U.S. funds to remain viable.
I don’t think he mentioned Ford.
6.00 min in . watch it.
founder.umoja.com
Listen to IT, don’t watch it. LOL!!!!! He said that Ford and other companies will be getting the bulk of the same ATVM loan that they(tesla) are applying for. Get your facts straight by LISTENING.
Umoja has mixed up the bailout funds with the electric vehicles loan program. Only a critic would make this “mistake”.
Never understood why people don’t just take a perfectly sorted hybrid engine from toyota (there are several to choose from), stick it in any generic chassis, shod it with run-flats, and stick a really big battery pack in the car where the spare normally would be. Plug it in at night to top it off, potentially go several miles on electric only, and get HUGE fuel economy gains. This would add what, $10K tops to the price of the car? Stick this setup in a Focus, and you’ve got a car for half the price of a volt or Model S, that does the same thing.
It is a little more complicated than that on modern cars. Tack on another $5000 to have custom modifications to the computer to initiate communication with the airbags, abs, climate control, etc. That is why the DIY electric conversions are usually pre-ODB cars.
Exactly – the handout has the opportunity to buy technology in a fresher company with a more forward thinking outlook, and no horrible stigma and financial problems built up for 50 years. Buy the technology hands down.
Bahahah… Detroitosaurs. Nice one.
I second that. hAHHa!
That was classic
My idea of the perfect car will always be the Volvo 122
http://tinyurl.com/dlz4gh
No frills, simple to operate, repair, maintain, durable. Something I could expect to own for >5 years.
Innovator’s dilemma. First doesn’t matter here. As soon as any decently sized manufacturer decides to jump in feet first they will crush Tesla, and a number of other boutique electric car manufacturers.
Whether GM survives to do it or someone like Nissan or Toyota decide to pounce (both expected), all of these players have much greater capacity in terms of material & resource acquisition and manufacturing muscle.
The Tesla sedan looks great – but that can be deceiving. They’ll be late to the party.
Tesla may be the Tucker of 2009/2010.
Emphatically disagree. Don’t underestimate the boutique’s major advantages of having no baggage.
David,
Do you know why GM couldn’t compete with Toyota but switching over to a leaner meaner type of production? They have an old mentality and obsolete business model.
They can in theory make many more cars than Tesla but they can’t practically. If they make an EV it indirectly says their gas products are dirty. That’s why they will never succeed making EVs because you have two types of products that work against each other and in the mission statement.
Come on…tax payer money for Tesla! Forget it! Not my money thanks!
It’s a loan not a grant! Tesla has to pay it back with interest if they get it. It sounds like a great deal for taxpayers to me. We build and develop the technology here in America, we get (eventually) cheaper and better all electric cars, another nail in the coffin of “big oil”, and the government makes a little coin from the interest.
no…
it’s not a loan… it’s a “potential loan” or better yet, it’s an unsecured loan… what it really is, is musk begging for cash because there’s no way in hell that telsa will be anything other than a wasted pile of $$$ without it.
i fully support him trying to suck off the gov’t… everybody else is, why not him!
just don’t try to come off as more intelligent than every one else in the room.
i’m sure both gm/ford, and maybe even chrysler could easily replicate/surpass what telsa has with what those guys have in their labs right now…
but we also need to face the fact, that most US drivers aren’t going to go hopping for any car over $15-20K right now…
in case we’ve forgotten, look at the serious drop in US annual sales…
peace
It’s a loan.
Now you naysayers have some old rust building up in your brains.
Chrysler or crisis-ler is a private company. We are using our tax money to fund a private company for their own gains. LOL!! And you say that isn’t a problem but an up and coming Tesla shouldn’t get a legit loan?
@bert He is more intelligent than everybody else in the room, pretty much any room
All the haters hate to accept this
I love TechCrunch, and read it daily, I mean, hourly. I think most of it is great, and therefore there are some parts for improvement.
I make my share of these, but I am seeing an increasing number of spelling, grammar, and basic language mistakes, which now also seem to plague the one Michael Arrington, i.e.
they’re most recent -> their most…
I don’t consider myself a language police, given that these are things you learn in high school. Given the frequency with which I read TechCrunch, it would be nice to see less of these. After all, It only takes reading over your article once before you hit the publish button. If it were an isolated case I wouldn’t have said this, but given the frequency with which they occur, it is starting to put me off from reading it as often as I did.
Keep the good work up,
Philip
I’m amazed at some of the tripe that the Times has been publishing of late. This is just more of it.
Why not write articles being critical of the Military Industrial Complex? For 50 years, american taxpayers have been funding all of the R&D at military manufacturers, yet they keep all of the profits.
because politically it doesn’t fly. The military is essential to sustaining power but they don’t want to upset the people profiting from it and the officials tied to it.
1TB sata drives are $80
Do you think they started at $80? Give it some time…
$50K for a car like this is not bad- It looks sweet too.
$50k is not bad, eh? So are you on the waiting list?
Gov money is for losers and entitlements. I suspect Tesla trying to wriggle into the latter.
Sorry, taxpayer money shouldn’t be used for bolstering Telsa. The company is run very poorly, and the vehicle is a rich person’s toy at best.
Alex, so….Citi, AIG and all the other financial bailouts, plus GM weren’t poorly run? weren’t rich men’s playthings?
Were is your rage against all the huge squander and on-going squander and ineptitude for these institiutions – why jump on Telsa?
ever hear of technological advances, mass manufacture …not possible here you think? Sure established players could crunch everything, but it takes much longer for the bhig boys to make a decision that corporately everyone agrees with, and how to do, and who should do it, and what is the budget, and milestones, and under whose authority and who misses out…
so credit where significanr credit is due. read up about all the advances they had to do…its not unlike the SR71 spyplane where they had to invent silicone rubber to get it to work plus a myriad of other things.
Yes, I am sorry too Alex, you are a neophite and an ignoramus. I’m very sorry.
This guy deserves credit for Tesla. The cars are very slick.
I think he is 100% right to say what he feels. As the founder of a company, he has every right to be angry and I think it’s very refreshing to see someone that is not afraid to take on the press.
Also, how is $50.000 too much money for a car? How many Escalade, Suburbans, Hummers, Cadillacs and Porsches do you see on the streets?
These days, very, very few. Of course, I live in a city full of real people, not a SoCal fantasy-land.
Um, I live in Austin, a “city full of real people” as you like to say and I see plenty of Escalades, Tahoes/’Burbans, Hummers (all flavors), Caddies (all flavors) and lots of Porsches.
While I’m at it I also see plenty of BMWs, Audis (including more than a handful of R8s and RS4s) and there’s even quite a few Aston Martin’s tooling around town (new, not old). Oh, and of course the occasional Ferrari.
Now I’m not sure what your definition of a “city full of real people” is if Austin doesn’t fit that definition.
Point being, $50k really isn’t that much for a car like the Tesla. As many others have pointed out, the price will come down over the years just like the price of a nice desktop/laptop have. New technology is always expensive — think back a few years when the iPhone released — $500 and $600 for a 4GB and 8GB model, respectively. Nowdays you can get a 8GB model for $99 and a 16GB model for $199 (w/ contract).
I can afford a $50k car right now, but I’m happy with my 4Runner. And I’m curious to see how long it will take for Tesla to create a mid-size electric SUV like my 4Runner. I’d be on the waiting list right now if they had something like that!
I guess I think you need to broaden your perspective is the entire point of my post. There are plenty of people that are doing just fine in this recession.
I saw the Model S in Scottsdale recently and it’s sweet. D-bag is the right word for the wonk at NYT. There are LOTS of people who can afford a $50,000 car let alone an electric one that can go over 200 miles on a charge. The new Volt from GM is $40,000 and goes 40 miles on a charge. Automotive innovation isn’t going to come from Detroit, it’s going to be Silicon Valley. I just wish Musk would have thrown in a “bite me”.
anyone gonna talk about the waitlist for the $50k car?!
Mike, what beyond the headline was corrected? According to the NYT, it was only the headline, which wasn’t even written by Randall Stross. And a headline correction would be far from a retraction as Elon says, or “much edited” as you say.
I admire Tesla and believe it is as deserving of government money as other car companies, but dislike Musk’s outrage at Tesla’s being criticized, just because it is small or green. Similarly, it’s hard to share his sense of righteousness when Tesla is, after all, asking for government money.
The NYT article had a point of view, and one I disagree with, but you have a point of view too. It really bothers me when people aren’t civil toward you, and it bothers me that Musk isn’t civil toward Stross.
Musk perhaps has earned the right to be arrogant or rude, but not when he’s asking for money, especially taxpayer money.
oh, the whole article changed. the rich quote was removed, for example, as was almost all of the criticism.
Whoa. That’s bad. Especially since they ran a correction that implied much less had changed.
Does anybody have a copy of the original?
The NY Times piece was a total hack job.
Copy of the NYTimes’ correction:
This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:
Correction: December 7, 2008
[Original article date: November 28, 2008]
A headline with the Digital Domain column last Sunday, about Tesla Motors’ application for federal loans, referred incorrectly to Tesla’s planned use of the money. It is not for the Tesla Roadster, its first model, which has a price tag of $109,000, but for purposes including the development of a sedan that, after tax credits, would cost about $50,000.
If there is a future for American automobile manufacturing, it is Tesla.
Go Tesla, make us proud.
In the 20 years I’ve been driving I’ve never even once considered buying an American made vehicle… until now.
I’d much prefer my tax dollars going to an innovative company like Tesla than to Detroit’s Big 3.
I’ll take one of each, please. If the NYTimes’ writer is an idiot, there’s no point in commenting about it but you are correct to point out his mental flaws.
Yes, $50K is a lot of money but if you are reading this on-line magazine, you probably can afford it. If you cannot, go back to reading something that doesn’t take much intelligence… say maybe a “speak n’ spell”. Sheesh! Do you live in a “red state”?
Morons. That’s why this country elected George W. Bush two terms in a row. And look at all the damage he has done. Thanks for nothing, George!
So I shouldn’t read TC because I can’t afford a $50K car?
Take your sorry, arrogant ass back to the rock you crawled out from under.
Hah please, there are plenty of cars out there that cost way more than $50,000. Tesla is doing good things though.
A loan to Tesla does not make sense. People like Jason Calacanis act like a loan is a great deal for taxpayers because they get interest and eventually paid back. But a loan in a risky start-up is far from risk-free. If Tesla doesn’t work out, the loan isn’t paid back and taxpayers lose everything. If the company does work, the loan will have subsidized a bunch of rich investors’ huge return while the taxpayer gets very little.
The way to think about it is, would YOU give a low interest loan to Tesla? How would you like it if they went out of business and didn’t pay you back? Or if the company is a hit and you see all the investors who put in the same amount of money as you get rich while you get a couple percent? You’d realize right away it isn’t fair.
The gov’t shouldn’t be doing these kinds of deals at all – in any company. Private investors and banks should be funding or lending to private companies. It’s not like Tesla is the only one working in this space. But they do get a lot of attention by this rag…
The gov’t is intervening in Detroit because it is an extraordinary situation and people can argue whether they should be there at all. But there is no question it’s inappropriate for a start-up funded by rich guys to get a bailout loan. Their arguments are all shallow and self-serving.
And a $50K car is definitely for rich people. The only reason they can claim the cost to the consumer is less is because… wait for it… a gov’t subsidy! They are already the beneficiaries of huge taxpayer welfare and now they want more. Of course every investor or company manager would love for the gov’t to give him tons of cheap loans and subsidies for his expensive products.
It’s amazing how entitled these people are. They have no shame.
Morgan, just about every sentence in your post is wrong. Did you miss the part about the investor’s not making money until the loan is paid off? The US Gov made a decision to invest a tiny amount of money in efforts to decrease oil dependence. This is all very reasonable.
You make an excellent point, huge risk without participating in the upside for the taxpayer’s money.
So the question is how do you structure government financial support for technology development deemed vital to the national interest?
NYT: Bash Tesla, But is Your Bailout Next? {seesmic_video:{”url_thumbnail”:{”value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/l1PlnAWzOV_th1.jpg”}”title”:{”value”:”NYT: Bash Tesla, But is Your Bailout Next? ”}”videoUri”:{”value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/Vpbb9GdEgs”}}}
I am so sick and tired of these entrepreneur vanity plays. Musk found a prize at the top of the first crackerjack box he opened, and that convinced him he was a genius. So he set out to make cars and rockets, because of course – by extropolation from one data pont – he could do that better than anyone else.
So he hires some people to make a few custom cars that end up parked on Sand Hill Road, and joins the club of people (and countries) that can half-ass launch a rocket.
I have no more sympathy for him than I do for Gen X, Y or Z parents who are certain they are the first people in history to have a baby – despite 12 billion examples to the contrary.
Give us a break. Turn the channel.
Are you freaking kidding me?
….Next you will be bagging Richard Branson
….Next you will be bagging Richard Branson
Pretty standard for the NYT: Dishonestly trash someone in an article and if the truth comes out, print a “correction”. Of course, no one notices the correction (do you read the corrections?)
I’ll complement Mike for having run corrections on the TC front-page at and equal level as everything else.
And, BTW, there are a lot of commenters who seem to think this is part of the automaker bailout money. It isn’t. It’s from a program approved well before focused on promoting energy-efficient vehicles. It is a totally separate program.
Taxpayer money is taxpayer money. I don’t care if you call it “stimulus” or “subsidies” or “bailouts” — it’s all unearned money being given to companies that lawmakers favor, for whatever reason. Let Tesla compete on a level playing field. They’ll make a mass market car eventually.
………..its a loan!
………..its a loan!
Are you serious? I did not know that many TC people had an interest in BIG oil! How many people could afford a car when they fist came out? Tesla has a nice car that I will consider buying. I spent $30K on my car and have had it for 3 years. With gas I am probably approaching $50K soon. The government should give Tesla a few billion so they can realize economies of scale and introduce less expensive models. Detroit is broken and America has an opportunity to lead the world away from fossil fuels and create jobs in the Auto industry 2.0.
That many TC readers don’t have an interest in big oil, they have an interest in knocking Elon Musk because he is so successful in the tech arena that he makes other people look comparatively unsuccessful.
They try to knock him back – only because by doing so it makes them feel as if he is less superior
hi mike
will you ever sell out to the nytimes…do they have a clue about tech or do they just care about their dealbook blog?
lance lee
Let’s get this straight. Elon Musk the little guy in this scenario. Last I heard there are at least three billionaires amongst the investors in Tesla Motors. So my question to Elon would be this. If Tesla Motors is such a good investment why don’t you, Larry and Sergey kick in the $350 million for the model S?
I also don’t believe that government money won’t go to fund the Roadster. Once the money is in the pockets of Tesla they’ll do whatever they like with it. Remember that the CMO quit in December because Tesla was spending deposit money on day-to-day operations.
If you can get a low interest loan from the government, why would you opt for $300m in venture funding? That doesn’t make any sense. But you probably already know that.
The NY Times is full of douchebags. They’ve been steadily losing credibility for years now.
So the car is 50K? Look at how much you are going to be saving by not dropping in hundreds of gallons of $5 (or more) gas over the lifetime of the car. We’ve got to invest in new technologies to get over our addiction to gas. Tesla has shown the most promise of any electric car I think. We should give them more $ to bring their technology to the mass market as quickly as possible.
I’m seriously shocked at some of the ignorant comments to this post. Thank god innovation is driven by people like Musk and not whinny non-contributing douche bags who don’t understand that new technology takes time and always starts out expensive.
Hey, that computer you’re using to trash this guy used to fill a warehouse and cost millions of dollars. Maybe that project should have been squashed because only multi-million dollar organizations could afford it. Then you wouldn’t be here complaining about how your tax dollars are being wasted.
I’d rather my tax money given to smart ppl who know how to build an electric car than to idiots and thieves at GM who know how to kill an electric car.
So, you’re going to advocate forcing someone to give their money to an unrelated company? That’s what taxes are – theft.
Yes. And while we’re at it, let’s force them to give their money to setup a fire department, a police department, and an army.
Of course, you’re free to opt out, just not here. You’ll just need a boat, and a rifle to deal with the pirates.
That’s the worst overused strawman argument ever.
You know what? Fuck it, I am getting a boat and a rifle. I’ve had enough of idiots like you.
Good for you.
Ah, the U.S. will be a better place for it. Thanks! Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
I actually agree with everything Strauss said, even taking into account the loan will go towards supporting the $50K. I mean, some of you guys act like Stross has ZERO point based on this single fact. Give me a break. His point stands and is a strong one.
Bailing out Tesla is like bailing out Porche or Maserati (minus the green guilt).
GM and chrysler are no longer viable companies getting a free ride from the govt. Tesla is reaching viability so i don’t see the difference when they are applying for a loan and not given tarp funds
No, I think most people were just suggesting that the the Stross (not Strauss) article was very poor.
I’ve read a fair number of articles by Stross and this one reads like he was secretly replaced by an ignorant, malicious imposter.
Among the things that stood out, referencing the $ GM spent on its electric car. Putting some things about GM aside, GM has vastly different challenges given the size of their operation. So much less money to engineer/develop something ultra-nichey than to do it on even a niche-level fora GM-sized company. Too, can believe GM did not spend efficiently on that project and always more costly when people are at least to some extent having to forge new ground.
Beyond all that, as people have noted, the roadster and to some extent the sedan are proofs of concept/learning exercises for the company. They have said all along that there would be bumps in the road (no pun intended) and they would have been fools to think or suggest otherwise with a project like this.
Regarding Tesla’s car choices, feels like they could not have built essentially an electric Mini for their first car (and probably not for their second) because it would have been mighty hard to scale up to the roadster’s revenue numbers–sell ‘em for, say, $40,000 and sell about 2.5x as many. And they had much of the body, etc. more or less straight from Lotus, which reduced creation costs.
So they learned a lot from the roadster. Onward. Of course the no. of people who can afford a 50k car is higher than the no. of people who can afford a 100k car, but it still generates good revenue/car on a relatively small scale. Big luxe, tech and performance in the 50k car reflects that they can do/sell the basics for less so it’s a step forward in the process that is more than trivial.
I assume production of the sedan is being set up with a decent measure of flexibility–changeable and scalable to reduce production costs to a point that they can reasonably plan to sell something smaller (with less luxe, tech and power) that is pretty close or closer to the price of a Camry hybrid or similar.
This is a coal-powered car. There are no charging stations for it.
If you buy this car, you are only moving the exhaust pipe to a central location – the coal plant, where there are fewer regulations.
Stop playing ‘Green’. This is a ‘brown’ car until we start generating cleaner electricity. Don’t come at me with Wind…and Hydro. It’s a small percentage of the total.
Government investment in electric cars should include improving the grid and generation capacity of Nuclear power.
This car by itself solves nothing. But it is still cool, and Elon has built something. Don’t take that away from him.
Wrong. There are MORE regulations on coal plants. Less than half the US is powered by dirty coal. The good news is that number gets smaller every year and It is easiler to regulate a few power plants than 200 million cars.
Gasoline comes from oil. Electricity can come for 10 different places and only 2 are dirty.
Elon Musk,
You should quit your job:
You are on of the most inefficient, unprepaired & worst versed ceo’s I have ever heard in my entire life. After seeing this video I am in a position to advise Tesla’s board of directors they’re in a safe road to failure.
In this short video posted by TC you said so many incongruencies that any analyst who heard them should weigh this against you and this company that miraclously retained you.
As a foreign attorney, the best advise I can give you is to sign up asap to toastmasters.org; also try a course of dialect & rhethoric or even go buy “How to make friends and influence people by Dale Carnegie- other than that you’ve proven to be a complete loser.
I can afford a Tesla but after seeing this video I will never ever even look at one and will make sure to tell as many people as possible that if they were to buy one they’d feed an incompetent person like you.
I don’t know Mr. Randall Stross at all but his comments were brilliant and straightforward. Keep up the good work Mr. Stross!!
Tesla’s Board of Directors: Get rid of this young man who defends the best interests of your company by insulting others who are inquiring the way your C Level officers spend public money! hurry!
ESQ
Thank you Randall ‘Douchebag’ Strous
Stross is criticizing Tesla for a legit loan while dismissing a private company like chrysler to use our tarp tax money for their own private gains.
You don’t see contradiction in that?
And this day and age, bad news is also good news. Mark Cuban is famous and has put his team on the map because of his outspoken and confident remarks.
You have a lot more to learn about business buddy.
If you’re going to attempt to hurl insults and criticize Elon, at the very least you should start out with propper grammar in your post. The amount of grammatical mistakes in your first full paragraph alone is astonishing.
Please, continue to be a “foreign lawyer” as you claim. We can’t handle any more imbeciles here in the U.S.
Argentine lawyer, you are an idiota.
Elon is, in fact one of the more successful entrepreneurs of our lifetime. And not for just creating little Web 2.0 features. But for advancing internet payments, electric vehicles and rocket launches.
You should be embarrassed by your post
“After seeing this video I am in a position to advise Tesla’s board of directors they’re in a safe road to failure.”
Haha, logic – its the reason why he’s heading up some of the worlds most advanced tech companies and you’re just a whinger.
Elon Musk doesn’t seem to think too much before speaking. Regardless of whether he is right or not, he should try to come across more professionally.
It’s sad to see a good idea be squandered by an unorganized company. I think their car concepts are amazing, but too much internal fighting will destroy them.
I have been impressed by every interview I have seen of Fiskar’s CEO.
So CEO interviews are more important than production vehicles?
I hate to pile on, but someone needs to tell Sarah Lacy: an interview is not a conversation. Just a thought, maybe she should have paid more attention in her journalism courses. And instead of bashing journalists that actually did pay attention in school, she may find she has much to learn from them.
Whoa.
A disclaimer first: I’m a Paypal user and read a lot about Elon Musk so I consider this guy pretty much an example of entrepreneurship. If the Tesla cars are a success, better for everybody. So I read the article and then watched the interview.
My question is why if Elon is 99% confident that Tesla will get the investment they’re asking for the government, does he sound so desperate and frustrated? So what if the NYT article uses the data it wants to give weight to some editor or the writer’s opinion that Tesla cars are for the rich? Practically all newspaper articles do that.
IMHO, he should have taken the high road (no pun intended) and brushed off the criticism with some firm comments and a relaxed (if it’s acted, even better) face.
Your opinion unfortunately has little value.
Mr. Musk seems arrogant (and a tad stupid too). I guess that’s why Mike Arrogant-on likes him.
It may seem like Elon is arrogant, which is fine. Who cares.
But he is most definitely NOT stupid.
What I don’t understand is why anyone would pick on one writer in the New York Times when it is full of idiotic douche bag writers daily from cover to cover!
Nothing better than arrogant, know-it-all entrepreneurs who never say or do anything wrong. Think Mr. Musk needs to get himself in check and learn how to be a little more diplomatic.
Can’t that operation afford some background noise blocking lapel mics? The ambient chatter was unbearable, had to stop watching. I did make it far enough to catch the zinger, though.
Tesla haters are just bitter just like the facebook and google haters. be successful and stop complaining about other people,s success.
The stock market will keep surging. US economy fundamentally strong http://iamned.com/blog/