Comments on: Yahoo Fined By Belgian Court For Refusing To Give Up E-Mail Account Info

By: Steve

Steve — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 23:25:48 +0000

They probably did the right thing on several counts. First, a firm like Yahoo! should not hand over data simply because it might be relevant in a case. Second, treaties and laws are structured so that a firm knows who the authority is. Work on the legal structure and solve the problem once instead of penalizing every firm that comes along. I use This digital security site for all my related questions.

By: M

Wed, 04 Mar 2009 09:22:58 +0000

“Perhaps this is still sour grapes in Sunnyvale”

You probably should have looked up that phrase “sour grapes” before using it in your post.

By: redwall_hp

redwall_hp — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 01:09:08 +0000

If that’s how they handle things, in any country, it needs to change. Period.

By: Ajax Jones

Ajax Jones — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 23:21:12 +0000

If they don’t like it they shouldn’t accept belgian adverts for their search and they should firewall belgian geo-ip data.

By: Anonymous ex-yahoo coward

Anonymous ex-yahoo coward — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 13:04:36 +0000

Interestingly, this has been Yahoo!’s policy in the US forever – other Yahoo! offices/companies are less stringent about following this. The net effect is that if you are a criminal, terrorist or someone with a reason for using email covertly and you are not based in the US, your best bet is always to go for the @yahoo.com option when you sign up for an account. The company will invoke its policy and you are much less likely to have your details revealed to the authorities.

By: Amit

Amit — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 12:05:37 +0000

The situation is pretty much the same in India (as mentioned about China above).

By: Belgium court fines Yahoo! for withholding email account info

Belgium court fines Yahoo! for withholding email account info — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:38:01 +0000

[...] Source:→ TechCrunch [...]

By: Web Upd8

Web Upd8 — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:41:22 +0000

Yahoo Fined For Refusing To Give Up E-Mail Account Info…

Yahoo was found guilty by a court in Belgium for withholding personal information linked to Yahoo e-mail addresses, and fined €55,000 right away and an additional €10,000 for each day it keeps refusin……

By: Nile

Nile — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:03:37 +0000

I agree with you Allen. The only way Google or Microsoft gave up any information was through the proper channels and abiding to their company privacy policy.

By: Nile

Nile — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 06:01:59 +0000

The Belgium court has no jurisdiction to make such a fine. I am a bit shocked on how this was not looked into during a recess to make sure this was a valid action. It is almost like if you were a hired bounty hunter from Belgium and tried to make an arrest in the US without a warrant or vice versa (and this situation has happened many times and has been in the news too.) It cannot happen unless it is done in a legal and proper way.

Perhaps the court should go about it the right way instead of adding ridiculous fines that should have not been done in the first place.

By: Allen

Allen — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:15:49 +0000

We had the same policy at a previous place of employment. Its very difficult to identify that someone calling or emailing from the other side of the world is legitimately entitled to that information. So if any one from another country contacted head office directly we would direct them to liaise through one of our subsidiaries in their jurisdiction; or if there wasn’t one, advise them to put an Interpol request through to the local police.

I don’t believe that Google or Microsoft would hand over information without following a similar policy.

And to those that think this is about Yahooo protecting privacy you’re only half right. If the US Authorities asked for it they would provide it.

By: stefan

stefan — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:20:36 +0000

In european countries you “operate” in a country as soon as one tiny website is accessible from the place in question. “Operating” does not mean that you need a physical presence here, it’s sufficient that your products/services are available through the net.

A completely other question is what a court can achieve if the company responsible for the services is somewhere else. As Yahoo states, they should have followed the legal way of contacting US authorities.

BTW, Tom: In many european countries you can get free from jail by paying lots of Euros too. Bt you don’t need to pay them to a corrupt officer, you pay them officially and legally to the governmental finance institue.

By: Steve

Steve — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 03:52:16 +0000

There is another issue at play here which I haven’t seen considered here and that revolves around a horrendous child abuse ring that operated in Belgium and left the whole population in a state of tremendous shock when it was uncovered.

It is possible that the thought of anything on this scale happening again trumps personal privacy concerns.

By: Falafulu Fisi

Falafulu Fisi — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 01:13:27 +0000

Hold on to your property Yahoo then you can tell that idiot judge to go and jump off a bridge and commit suicide.

By: nas

nas — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:55:42 +0000

Wow. I applaud yahoo for what they are doing. I wish they could have stood up to China too, but it was a difficult situation. BTW, china just landed a probe on the moon. Their country ain’t shabby, for a “superpower”. Belgium ain’t shit compare to China, so don’t belittle another country until you have your fact straight. Go Yahoo!

By: ヤフー、メールアカウント情報提出を拒みベルギー裁判所から罰金命令

ヤフー、メールアカウント情報提出を拒みベルギー裁判所から罰金命令 — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 00:22:06 +0000

[...] [原文へ] [...]

By: amit

amit — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 23:44:19 +0000

err.. please note that yahoo.ch is not Yahoo’s china website but Swiss since .ch is swiss gtld. China’s gtld is .cn so that’ll be yahoo.cn

By: Fred

Fred — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:55:16 +0000

Cheers to Yahoo for holding the line on user privacy. Jeers to Google and Microsoft for not doing the same thing. Do no evil, my butt.

By: Want Privacy? Better Switch to Yahoo | Blippitt

Want Privacy? Better Switch to Yahoo | Blippitt — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:00:32 +0000

[...] really interesting is that the judge has been quoted as saying that the request to turn over user data “poses absolutely no problem with Google and [...]

By: fjpoblam

fjpoblam — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:58:53 +0000

Right on, Yahoo!

By: Gary

Gary — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:05:04 +0000

I think Yahoo makes a valid point in their statement and is being missed or ignored by many commentors.

Yahoo feels that any request of this kind should have gone through the US Government. At this point – no matter the reason Belgium is making said request, or what the culture is like in Belgium – is fairly irrelevant.

Seems like the prosecutor should have followed proper procedure with the US Government before trying to fine Yahoo for non-cooperation.

By: Gary

Gary — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:05:03 +0000

I think Yahoo makes a valid point in their statement and is being missed or ignored by many commentors.

Seems like the prosecutor should have followed proper procedure with the US Government before trying to fine Yahoo for non-cooperation.

By: Bill

Bill — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:55:37 +0000

I believe the difference is Yahoo! does not operate in Belgium, but did operate in China at the time the Chinese authorities requested information.

At the time when Yahoo! complied with Chinese authorities’ request, Yahoo! was operating in China (buildings, staff, facilities). Since the fiasco with user data in China, Yahoo! had ceded control of Yahoo! China to Alibaba group and is no longer running the business there (just an investor in Alibaba).

Yahoo! is not running their business in Belgium. They do not have offices, staff and facilities on Belgian territory, so the Belgian govt has no authority over Yahoo!. Belgium needs to request a subpoena from the US Govt.

So, these are two different situations, you can not compare the two.

So, if China, today came and asked Yahoo! to hand over data for a Yahoo! user, who’s account and usage is on the Yahoo! US (not Yahoo! China), then Yahoo! does not have to comply, unless the US Govt files a subpoena.

By: Nicolas Mertens

Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:26:13 +0000

you’re funny

By: redwall_hp

redwall_hp — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 20:21:50 +0000

Sorrym but both you and Belgium are wrong. Yahoo does not “operate” in Belgium. The company resides and operates in the United States. Their web services can be accessed from Belgium, true, but over the internet. If they’re not physically present in Belgium, how do they “operate” there?