Things are changing at DEMO, the startup and product-launch conference owned by IDG that competes with our own TechCrunch50 conference. After 13 years, conference organizer Chris Shipley will make way for Matt Marshall, editor of VentureBeat. The two will co-produce DEMO as Marshall gets up to speed, then he will take over. Marshall says he will focus on “injecting deeper themes” into DEMO.
DEMO could certainly use the new blood. And VentureBeat could use the extra cash that the deal will bring it. (VentureBeat will share in the profits of the conference). But Marshall is going to have to do a lot more than appeal to the chin-strokers in the audience. He is going to have to reinvigorate a dying brand. It is not so much about the themes of the conference as it is who goes to them.
And here Marshall has an uphill battle to climb because DEMO charges presenting companies nearly $20,000 to attend (in contrast, presenting companies at TechCrunch 50 are selected on merit and attend for free). Maybe IDG is giving discounts this year, but in this economy that is a tough sell. At least Marshall says he is willing to re-assess the model if need be:
We are going to bring fresh eyes to this and are reviewing it. We are going to do what it takes to keep this brand’s integrity
But convincing IDG to change its economic model won’t be easy. I think Marshall himself realizes this:
This is an organization that has been around since 1991 and has been through ups and downs, and companies have continued to come. These are companies launching real products for a market and the model seems to work. They keep coming back.
So why change it, right? It is fine by us if DEMO sticks to its model of extorting startups.
The one thing Marshall does have going in his favor is his blog. The readers of VentureBeat overlap with the type of people IDG wants to attract to DEMO, and VentureBeat keeps them engaged in conversation all year long. If you want to build a community, blogs are the way to do it. The only time anyone bothers to go to the DEMO Website is during the conferences themselves to watch the free videos that they didn’t want to pay to see in person.
I should note that while VentureBeat competes with TechCrunch every day on the blogging front, it is also a co-host of the Crunchies Awards, another event we put on. So this is just another area where we will have to crush them. It’s called co-opetition.
Incidentally, our coverage is [over at ReadWriteWeb.]
Marshall, you are sneaky, trying to add a link in comments on my post to your post. I deleted the link, but kept the comment.
Erick, nothing sneaky about it! I was privy to the back story in at least the days leading up to this announcement and given TC’s funky relationship with embargoes I don’t think you’re in a position to call me sneaky. If you want to be “all in good fun” (fine with me) then you can buy me a beer whenever we finally get to meet.
Breaking embargoes is fine. Glad you’re coming over to our side of the fence. Trying to trick the search engines, Techmeme, etc. into thinking that I linked to your post is sneaky. You are better than that.
As a reader I want to see the link, so here it is http://www.read..._shipley_to.php .
Erick, get a life.
No more sneaky than running an advertisement and pretending it is an article.
No offense Marshall but VentureBeat ceased to be interesting when you stopped covering true start-ups. Every other article is about iPhone apps, Twitter, Facebook, or another lame Web 2.0 thing that will never make money. AlleyInsider is 200x more relevant even though they mostly focus on big companies and even Valleywag (shudder) does a better job of covering real startups.
“Covering startups” can’t mean you republish press releases and just announce funding. TC says stupid things at times, but at least I come back for the opinions. Better to have an opinion than none at all.
Reading VentureBeat is difficult enough when their actually covering their beat–Venture Capital firms.
They no longer do this, and have resorted to covering games and nitche funk that perhaps 8 people in the country find interesting.
$320,000 in funding? Are you joking?
BTW: What do they pay shill hacks like MG Siegler? It can’t be cash. No way.
GameStop Coupons? All the Ice Cream he can eat?
Your old friend Obscurity called, Venturebeat. Your room is ready. Time to go back home.
Thanks!
Replace “their” with “its” and “its” again.
My bad.
wow. a little class and humility please.
Class and humility? Are you new here?
The funny part is that this is the best post on TechCrunch since Mike left.
OMFG,
You guys RIP on DEMO so badly.
You say that DEMO was all about money and pay to play and that’s why you made TechCrunch 50, but you guys are infinitely WORSE.
If Micheal Arrington wrote this post my comment would be deleted within 5 minutes and you know it.
The only conference left that has any class is Twistup in Los Angeles which I was at.
No pay to play and the $75 charge covers an open bar, where the bar tenders ENCOURAGE you to drink. I was going to stop drinking and the bartender was like, don’t be shy, IT’S OPEN BAR.
Sh1t, jesus, LA rolls it way better than San Francisco.
http://tinyurl.com/cwebshare
TC50 and Demo is the pot calling the kettle black.
Twiistup, sorry, damn domain squatters.
whats wrong with charging people that are willing to pay? its funny because you get all these (lost) people to pay on both sides of the fence for what in most cases is a shell game.
heres a good one. alwayson considers Wize a game changer. a product review index engine. i will let you make the call.
http://vator.tv...hangers-contest
DemoLocator.com – crushing competition
Well, this is what robbing $18,000 from cash strapped startups will do.
Fix that first and you will have better startups on DEMO.
Guys, RWW already covered this story:
Hmm. My link has suddenly disappeared.
Here it is again:
http://www.tech...comment-2629976
Eh?
RWW here: http://www.read..._shipley_to.php
How come Viking gets to post a link I don’t? His name is not that much cooler than mine.
Seems comment police is sleeping.
Let’s try:
http://www.read..._shipley_to.php
and
http://guhmshoo.wordpress.com/
wow this article seem so much like war between the two conferences. i sense a lot of bad blood there just by reading through the lines.
Exactly. Seems EXTREMELY self serving. The author almost throws his shoulder out patting himself on the back.
biased much?
I’m totally biased.
You are usually not biased, but consider that admission price to TC50 should be based on the size of your company, not a flat rate of 10k. A small table at TC should be based on the size of your company.
My project’s budget is < 100k, spending 2k a piece at a conference is out of the question.
Even Venturebeat with a budget of 320k, THEM going to TC50 would be out of the question.
You guys made well over a million dollars with that.
i’m biased too, but i find it strange that demo is trying to answer back to techcrunch50 in every way except, oh say, NOT CHARGING STARTUPS AN ARM AND A LEG. the biggest reason TC50 caught on to begin with.
I prefer a clear, visible fee to the behind the scenes dealings with Peter Thiel and David Sacks that made Yammer a winner at the last TC50.
Nothing like a little rivalry to get the blood boiling! The comments were more interesting than the post.
Love the back and forth since I respect both both blogs- this type of transparency in the reporting in the tech space is what keeps me coming back-
Sounds like you guys need to “hug it out” then go pound a few brews together or vice versa
Since when is it wrong to make money in the conference business? Last time i checked, capitalism is a good thing.
I have yet to hear significant criticism of Demo, or the results of companies that participate in a given show.
What I do hear is “sour grapes” comments.
The value proposition oh Demo has always been clearly understood by participating companies.
Technology shows should not be “let’s rent a barn and put on a show. Spaky!”
They should have high production values and offer added value relationship networking.
Mandatory disclosure; I produced Demo events and wrote the associated weekly electronic and monthly newsletters.
Based on my experience prior to having a life-changing stroke prior tio opening a Demo event, Demo fulfills the two requirements of high production vaues and value-added networking/
I wish Matt Marshall all the best with Demo and I am looking forward to seeing the companies at Demo 2009 in a few weeks.
Break a leg, Matt!
Jim Forbes
(retired amongst verdant avocado orchards in north San Diego County)
“Technology shows should not be “let’s rent a barn and put on a show. Spaky!””
You’re wrong, that’s exactly how it *should* be.
If somebody rented a barn in LA County and put on a Tech conference with prizes it would be far bigger than TC or DEMO. Twiistup is good, but it’s in an airplane hanger and not a barn.
A barn theme would draw huge crowds.
try renting the horse racing grandstands or the 4H hall with its bleachers in Pomona at the LA County Fair grounds. Then, Sparky, you can put on a show and have Our Gang of undifferentiated Web 2.0 companies gasping for money and long awaited recognition.
I have always thought LA County would make a great venue for an event. The Ritz Carlton in Pasadena is a wonderful hotel.
As to offering prizes.. it’s a good idea and was done at Demo for countless years.
best,
Jim Forbes*
*a native Los Angeles County boy from the days when LA County was a top-r ated ag producer and its rockets and other technologies propelled the space race.
Hmm, will have to put “barn” in the list for top locations if we ever do a conference
Erick, this post demonstrates everything that is wrong with TechCrunch and is a perfect example of why I stopped reading this web site regularly almost 2 months ago. Unfortunately your stories hit TechMeme nearly every single day so they’re impossible to avoid. I typically filter them out as soon as I see the the word “Erick” but I couldn’t NOT comment on this.
I think the TC50 is a good conference, from the 2 years I’ve watched it online. And many things I’ve heard about DEMO are negative. But this post is an absolute embarrassingly gigantic conflict of interest. You can simply NOT post a story like this and expect your readers to take you seriously. You have huge influence in this industry, you just can NOT post something like this. It is completely unacceptable.
I didn’t think my respect for TC could go much lower, but remarkably it has. Nice going Erick. Keep driving this site down the shitter.
ummm… TC50 takes 3k from all the Demo Pit folks. And there were like over 200 demo pitters most of which are completely boot strapped.
I second that. 3k is at least 2 weeks salary if not more for software developers.
That’s what you’re supposed to invest in a diamond engagement ring right?
That’s pretty screwed up. Google IO is $300 and they supply meals. SoCal Linux conference this weekend is $70, with the discount coupon it’s $42 for the whole weekend.
If somebody wants to co-op to rent a place in LA or Orange county get a hold of me, because I’d buy a table or help out. Cost + 100% would be a refreshing discount to most of us.
lol. If that is not a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black (again), then I don’t know what is…
This post disgusts me.
For crying out loud, does TechCrunch have a shred of dignity left?
Is this what you’ve been reduced to – slamming a competitor as entire post in an effort to boost your own event?
TC is the one sounding desperate here.
Isn’t Venturebeat owned or controlled by Microsoft?
You mean MG Siggler their resident Apple fan boy?
I am the Apple fanboy owned or controlled by Microsoft. Also sponsored by Google with a Twitter tattoo.
MG Siegler’s unabashed shilling, uninteresting story lines and inside baseball babble make him the worst tech journalist in North America.
One positive note: His serial killer VB photo is used during “Stranger Danger Week” at every elementary school in the country.
Which is a good thing, I reckon.
lotta inside baseball here
nobody cares
you all come off bad
the sad thing is, some people will actually try to sort out where the equity lies in all this… i’m going to have to avoid all tech blogs for the next two weeks
Wow Eric, in addition to being Apples’s bitch, you have now become Mikey’s.
Amazing you can pan a competitor with a straight face.
What a joke some of your virtual soapboxers have become.
Well hopefully Matt Marshall won’t play with his toenails when people come into his office to present their hot new stuff.
For reals.
anyone see the Time piece on TC? They said it was one of the most overrated blogs.
I tend to agree.
TC is like Digg. They should have sold out ages ago, its just stale now. I drop buy every now and again to read the comments more than anything else. The posts are plain dull these days.
When you say “competes with”, does that mean both conferences are always run at the same time and go head-to-head?
Or, are they simply both conferences where tech startups compete?
wow, you guys are shipley haters. that graphic x’ing her out is rude and hilarious… lol.
Here she is not X’d out
http://www.uber...at_demo_07.html
You guys would do well to appreciate what DEMO has done for you. In many ways they paved the way for conferences like TC50. In addition they pioneered taking unknown startups and helping them break through to the press, investors and potential customers.
Show a little respect to those who paved the way for your success.
I have to jump in here against all this TC bashing. Some people still don’t seem to get it, because when you are at the top everyone is gunning for you I guess.
DEMO did NOT pave the way for the success of TC or the TC conferences. I’ll let you in on the secret what did: startups. Michael is a guy who thought “hey, I think I’ll write about interesting tech startups” and the rest is history. Other (less successful) people saw the money around tech startups and thought “hey, there is a lot of money around tech startups, how can I capitalize on that”. This same misunderstanding is why Mike is taking a break now. People think he focuses on stories for reasons other than him finding them interesting.
@Chris – A conference is not a party. There is purpose to it, in this case, it’s TC putting the spotlight on companies that probably deserve it. Paying 3K for the demo pit at 16% the DEMO cost is a payment filter not out of the reach of most serious startups.
tc must not find locator dudes startup interesting. they must be wearing a blindfold. a simple “hot” or “not” grading scale from tc officials and indentifiable bloggers for all startups in crunchbase would be a first step to putting more integrity in the system.
DEMO did this more than 10 years ago, TC started 3 years ago. There was a time when no one cared about startups or what they did that was the environment DEMO started in and the facts demonstrate they paved the way.
Amazon, Yahoo, and Ebay are all companies started in 1995. All are worth billions of dollars. You think that they would not exist without DEMO? And that there would be no interest in startups 10 years later when TechCrunch started covering startups? You’re smoking something.
TechCrunch is pure web 2.0 and nuthin more–no cred yet outside of consumer web services. DEMO is for new technologies and the format is still valid. Its great there are both and surely room for both. However, the longer the TechCrunch king is on the beach, the easier it will be for the next ‘king’ to take its place
Getting the attention of respected bloggers and journalists shouldn’t ever require thousands of dollars. There are scrappy, effective and sexy ways to do this for around $75 – that’s a realistic fee for a startup. We used a combo of Strutta http://tu5.twiistup.com + our hangar (aka barn) http://www.twii...3-the-pictures/ to spread the word about the selected companies.
Seems like a great time to develop events that are local or happen online (avoid travel costs), don’t last a week long (who has that kind of time?) and keep the costs low for everyone involved.
Let’s disrupt! @macadaan
Costs $0 if you send us a pitch (if you’re a socal company
The fact that Techcrunch is usually referred to as a top blog is a disgrace to the community.
Can we have some serious discussion here?
I think both conferences Demo and TechCrunch “Crunchies” will be dieing brands soon. 99% of the companies that present at your conferences will not raise VC money because they have no idea how to bootstrap themselves into self sustaining businesses. Why don’t both conferences grow up and encourage ONE MINUTE in your product demo pitches for “how do we plan to make money”. Creativity on revenue streams is my investment theme for the next few years in the “recession / depression.”
Meow meow!!!
The intellectual in me agrees with Razib. But that side of me (and everyone else) that loves trashy reality TV and manufactured controversy is LOVING it. How much more traffic & comments is this story getting than say the average cool new company/technology post on TC? This is why good journalism is dying… I don’t blame the media, I blame myself!
Yikes. Don’t know why you’d want to flaunt your bias so flagrantly. It isn’t flattering.
“..Getting Desperate”??
And Mike wonders why he got spit on.
I’m “desperate” to quickly find the link to remove TechCrunch from my Google Reader feed.
Ahh..there we go.
Us east coast venture conferences will welcome all you west coast startups with open arms! Atlanta, March 11-12th, would love to have you. No $2k price tags here to get in, what startups can afford that? If you’re a startup, drop me a line and I’ll get you in for our cost – $190 which gets you dinner, lunch, open bars (2 nights) and networking with $60 billion in venture capital. Tim Draper and a decent number of west coast vc’s will be making the “short hop” to Atlanta…Eric
This old convo again. Well, disclaimer – Mike “banished and de-friended” us for arguing with him about this DEMO price vs. TC price a few years ago. At that time, Under the Radar (founded in 2003 – mind you) was the only start-up conference that didn’t gouge (i think it was like $200). And look – we’re still talking about the same issue. Fun!
As an advisor to startups now on where to launch – I make the case for certain companies who require high-value production to properly showcase their products to launch at DEMO. if they are in love with TC (and many are) – do that – but hope the wireless is stable etc. etc. Lots of caveats. Hope this new events guru that can be taught everything JC knows in 24 hours will help this.
And, just to give you some perspective, the largest conference organizers outside the US (like Informa, Terrapin, IIR, Marcus Evans) – are mostly pay-to-play! It’s amazing that they get away with this – but they do.
Anyway – events business is kinda sleazy and lame anyway you slice it.
TechCrunch50 has self-selected GATEKEEPERS deciding who presents, what innovation and business models are worthy, etc. It also has pat-on-the-back pomposity from some of the judges who are there more to shore up their reputation as “thought leaders” than to give due consideration to the presenters. How is that so much more moral and pure than DEMO’s pay-to-play?
All I have to say is it would be useful if TC had crunchopinions, like they have crunchgear… this is not what I want to read about, and it would be nice if it wasn’t in the regular feed.
I appreciate the normal opinions on business models and such… but this is way more editorial than those, w/ little basis on any fact and VERY little actual analysis.
I am reminded of the joke about a town so small that it couldn’t support an attorney, but it could support two.
Personally, I think DEMO rocks, and that Chris Shipley has done a masterful job of building the brand. They put on a great event, which is why it is so successful.
I don’t agree that there’s anything unethical about their revenue model. No one is compelled to present at DEMO, and the fact that they clear the shelves at $18K+ per slice tells me that that the price is right. That’s about a fifth of an FTE. Companies that can’t afford that for the benefit of pitching at DEMO probably aren’t ready.
There’s also nothing wrong with comping presenters and selling the eyeballs they attract to sponsors. But I think there’s a different value proposition with that model.
Some companies are raising money, of course (some never stop), but I don’t see launching a product at DEMO as being a fundraising activity. Sure, there are some investors sniffing the deal flow, but the real upside to DEMO is the media attention.
TechCrunch just doesn’t have the same appeal to tech journalists, and every time Arrington (or a proxy) takes a shot at Shipley, he loses that much more whuffie in that community.
TC positions itself as a BIL to DEMO’s TED, but ultimately fails in that the hostility and incivility makes it appear as clueless as it is classless.
There are lots of deal flow events going on that never make the media radar, but where early stage companies do indeed find funding. They cost a lot less than either DEMO or TC, and they’re the real backbone of the venture ecosystem.
DEMO is a great event for generating buzz, reaching markets and peer-to-peer networking. I’m still trying to figure out what TC is good for.
–Ax
“Companies that can’t afford that [$18K] for the benefit of pitching at DEMO probably aren’t ready.”
TechCrunch recently covered a Mint.com study that shows the average amount most people have in savings is $5K. By your logic most entrepreneurs in America would NOT be ready to have a successful startup – no matter what their idea or skills are. As for tech journalists covering the event, DEMO has years of a head start while TC has done two … we’ll see.
>By your logic most entrepreneurs in America would NOT be ready to have a successful startup
No, my logic is that most entrepreneurs are not ready to pitch at DEMO. That’s a true fact by any calculation. Companies that have real products they are ready to introduce to a potentially global market are not one-man-bands with $5K in savings. Early stage companies start with their own money, and the F&F round, then maybe some seed funding from angels, SBIR, convertible debt, etc. VCs rarely invest less than $5M in a Series A, so to reach that point, an entrepreneur has already raised hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in risk capital. Whether or not allocating .18 FTEs on a launch at DEMO makes sound strategic sense is, of course, a subjective decision, and for some companies, it doesn’t pencil.
But if your widget is ready to ship to global markets, $18K for a very high profile launch to industry thought leaders and potential follow-on financing partners is a drop in the marketing budget.
–Ax
“VCs rarely invest less than $5M in a Series A, so to reach that point, an entrepreneur has already raised hundreds of thousands or millions…”
Do a search for the TechCrunch coverage of Charles River Ventures and their new $250K startup offer. Your logic and models are old and outdated, and others are adapting – but not DEMO.
No, your logic is flawed. You still believe the hype the startups with $100K in funding can be bought for billions in a year. I have news for you…
>Charles River Ventures and their new $250K startup offer
There are a few, and a very few, VCs who are lowering their sights somewhat, and I frankly applaud them for that. (See my posting here: http://is.gd/kbc3)
But the truth remains that most funds are still chasing substantial 20%+ IRRs, and can’t get there in small bites. LPs want that capital deployed, and they want it buying great teams with solid plans and real traction.
>Your logic and models are old and outdated
Both are being tested by the current economic disequilibrium, but neither is old nor outdated. Companies with real products shipping to real customers don’t get there by maxing out their credit cards. That’s why you raise a seed round, to ramp up production, sales, and marketing. And I say again; $18K to pitch your widget to the blognoscenti and mid-stage investors that can take you to profitability and exit is a bargain.
DEMO is a very well-produced program, with plenty of networking built in, and the absolute cream of thought leadership in attendance. You don’t want to “pay to play”? No one’s holding a gun to your head. Kick it old school if you want.
But seriously, if you’re ready to launch a game-changing innovation, why wouldn’t you want to pitch at DEMO? And why would you want to pitch at TC?
–Ax
@Alan Chamberlain – I will concede that if manufacturing an actual physical product your arguments in favor of significant capital raising make sense. But if you have a Web only service like Facebook or Ebay, where overhead is far lower, chasing large VC rounds can mean an unfortunate position of early share dilution and pressured exits.
“LPs want that capital deployed … $18K to pitch your widget to the blognoscenti and mid-stage investors that can take you to profitability and exit is a bargain.”
Mark Cuban was right. Too often companies nowadays don’t worry about actually making money, it’s about an exit, and VCs are chasing valuations north of $1B. I think this may ultimately be a case of misplaced expectations. There will only be so many Googles and Myspaces per decade.
>VCs are chasing valuations north of $1B.
I don’t think that’s been true for years. Nearly all exits now are M&A, and the sweet spot for acquiring companies is in the $20-100M range.
If you are building a web services business, and you really don’t need the money, by all means, bootstrap. But if you look at the companies that pitched at DEMOfall08, you’ll see that they have all raised seed money, and are raising more.
Take Telnic for example. This is a pure web services play, a TLD with a database and a fee-for-service business model. They’d already raised some VC money, and were raising a Series B in the $25-50M range. They showed very well at DEMO, and they go live this month. Don’t know if they raised any money, but they definitely got a lot of strategic exposure. ObDisc: I’m a beta user of the service.
>Too often companies nowadays don’t worry about actually making money, it’s about an exit
It is true that many entrepreneurs are too focused on the big payday, rather than creating value and booking revenue. David Hornik made the comment at Start last fall that “When you see guys leaving McKinsey to start companies, things have gotten out of hand.” One upside to the current economic disruption is that realism is returning to the early stage space.
–Ax
“When you see guys leaving McKinsey to start companies, things have gotten out of hand.”
LOL, agreed.
Utterly pathetic for someone who calls himself a journalist.
TC guys, I’m ashamed to be reading your deeply unethical and amateurish publication. Give some respect to Chris who has forgotten more than you’ll ever now. No doubt this will come back to haunt you, and when the “web 2.0″ mania is over nobody will remember what TC ever was.
Hey, they’re upfront about charging 18K for appearing on-stage. If companies don’t want to “pay for play,” they can always grease Arrington’s palms and win TC50 or an utterly useless Crunchie award.
TC has become more a comedy central for tech news and bad ‘journalism’ more than anything else. TIME magazine got it spot on. Erick, getting pissy about a link on a blog, is quite frankly, childish. But that’s what you are, a child. Ever heard of emotional intelligence? You have none.
As an outsider from another generation looking at this thread I must say: 1) It’s a weird world, and 2) What does this have to do with journalism? (My definition: the search for truth by professionals.)
I spent about 15 min reading the entire post (both here and RWW) and the comments. What can I say? You guys really need to get some lifes, these r for kids fighting for barbie dolls in the old days.
Grow up.
Always 3 sides to a story!