When we first covered LeapFish, once a domain name appraisal service, they had just launched a new meta search engine which I claimed no one would ever use. Practically immediately after posting, we were flooded with anonymous comments praising the service, all coming from the same IP address and within half an hour (CEO Ben Behrouzi later apologized for the astroturfing).
But there were other reports on the net that showed the employees were indeed painting a far better picture of the company than the reality would suggest. Some of those targeted blogged about their experiences of being approached by super-aggressive sales people from LeapFish, which is ok up to a point. But I have never heard of sales tactics like this: blatantly committing click fraud to drive up the advertising cost for potential clients using other systems in the hopes that they would be inclined to switch to LeapFish instead, and bragging about it to those potential clients!
And that’s exactly what happened this morning.
We got an e-mail from Matt at Pong-A-Long who had been contacted earlier today by a LeapFish employee named Chris who was looking to sell him the company’s online advertising services. After being told that Pong-A-Long wasn’t interested, Chris called back a couple of minutes after the first call to try again. He got the same response. Apparently, he ended the second telephone call with the words “well, have fun spending money on Google” (LeapFish might have targeted Pong-A-Long because they noticed the company was advertising using Google AdWords in the first place).
Chris later decided to follow up on his two unsolicited phone calls with an e-mail to Pong-A-Long saying:
I just clicked on your link 50 times. Pay per click hurts. Found you on page 2 of the sponsored links. Call me for an advertising solution (888)REDACTED-EXT 765.
Ouch.
As Matt puts it: “Admitting to click fraud is an interesting business model.”
(For the record: we called the number and determined that it was in fact the LeapFish office)
Update: Behrouzi responds on his blog. He’s disappointed in TechCrunch.
See also the official LeapFish blog post.
They called me and make me NUTS… I spoke to the sales manager because the main rep didnt know anything about the service. Its really not worth spending that kind of money on ONE keyword and then have to pay 5% per year just to keep it up.
Bad strategy. Overly aggressive sales staff that are NOT educated on what they are selling. Bad business.
Heh, and LOL @ their search box text:
“It’s OK, you’re not cheating on Google…”
Yeah, /”leave that job to us.”/ Classic. We’ll see how “revolutionary” their “search engine” is when Google stops providing results for them. And “patents pending” my ass. I’ve seen instant result meta engines many many years ago.
Not sure what’s worth patenting about their site. It’s a meta search engine for god’s sake. I can have that build on elance for $500 in a week. That company will fizzle away in no time, especially in this economy.
Lol I built one myself in a week in php – it pulls results from google, yahoo, ebay, amazon, and youtube, and it monetizes the whole thing with contextual ads and plugs in your affiliate id for eBay and Amazon. Took me about 30 hours of work, during the evenings over 7 days. Give me another 20 days and I can make you something better than LameFish. These guys are a joke. Here’s my meta search engine – http://zoomitin.com
If you think that lame site is any good, you must have an ego problem of massive proportions.
Hmmm…me thinks you have very little experience in online advertising. If you do, it’s probably very little. Otherwise, you’d know how inaccurate that statement is.
I’m not so quick to discard their service. They’ve got something going for them as far as presentation of results go.
I’m not a fan of business process patents myself, but I can guess thats what they’re pointing to – re: as opposed to some technology. But that’s just my guess.
As far as this blog post is concerned: yeah, it’s somewhat overblown, and that title does give off a supermarket tabloid style. But hey, it does grab attention so I guess, that’s just the way it is.
That sales rep deserves what he got (fired/canned). Those are sleazy tactics to be sure. But to say it reflects on an entire company, well, that’s walking a fine legal line to say. But, hey, it’s a blog post. Akin to the difference between news radio and radio talk show.
And for those who have purchasing authority in companies, the story of an overbearing sales rep isn’t news at all. I don’t know how many times I get pitched with office equipment, some more aggressive, even rude, than others. What I don’t do is tie that to a particular brand – re: just because this Xerox, Canon etc., rep (or reseller rep) was rude, doesn’t equate to a crappy Xerox, Canon, etc. product.
Good info Thank you!! I’ll try
Big Ben is on twitter!!!
twitter.com/benbehrouzi
Leap Fish has very misleading practices
They quote the keyword traffic for the world not for their site. You can not get their traffic count. They make you think your going to get the traffic from google. They tell you that it is a virtual contract and you cannot get your money back. They do not tell you that there is a 5% yearly processing fee. If you ever have to pleasure of talking to Micheal, their manager, you will want to reach out and touch him with the phone. ! Leap fish may do well in the future but one tends to think that if they are not on the up and up from the get go, they’ll be another company that bites the dust….
Wow. Cyperextortion. Al Capone would be proud.
LOL! Well said.
Actually, it would have been well said if he had typed “cyBerextrotion” instead of “cyPerextortion”. But I lol’d none the less.
“employee named Chris who was looking to sell him the company’s online advertising services. After being told that Pong-A-Long wasn’t interested, Chris called back a couple of minutes after the first call to try again. He got the same response.”
Wow I get the same thing, not from Leap Fish but lots of annoying ad companies that keep contacting me on my blog to use their ad system. You tell them you’re not interested but they keep sending you contacts. Freaking annoying.
Hey Shane, do you live in a glass house, perchance?
And it would have been even better had you spelled EXTORTION right after calling him out on a typo. But I LOL’d none the less.
And it would have been bestest of all if you had properly written “nonetheless” as the singular word it is, beeyotch
That exchange was friggin hilarious!
beeyotch, meet kettel [sic]
I guess this is what happens when nerds argue. It’s over grammar. Haha. One love guys, one love (for techcrunch).
Openly admitting to click fraud is pretty bold.
On the other hand, I am pretty sure that subsequent clicks from the same IP within a certain amount of time (24 hours if I am not mistaken) will not be charged to the advertiser.
Unless they used proxies or numerous computers to click the ad, I doubt it will make any significant difference.
I think I am going to start a new company to openly click ads for businesses wanting to get rid of competition on PPC ads. I will call it LeapClickIt.
That is disgusting – imho it amounts to extortion! These leapfish guys sound like a bunch of wankers. Hope to see them in the deadpool real soon.
They called me several months ago. The sales person had no clue about any metrics. Pushed me to talk to the sales manager. I pulled Quantcast stats while they were on the phone and saw no traffic. The sales manager said that they were going to be the next big thing and I should lock in my keyword now before they blow up.
We passed, sounds like a good decision.
Any people with law knowledge know whether this could actually be criminal extortion?
Yes indeed. Sometimes people call it blackmail.
Why does techcrunch hate leapfish? I’m a proud kryword owner and think their new search speed thing is cool..musta never checked it out
Even if their keywords are great, it seems like they might be doing something illegal to get people to buy em.
Umm, I’m going to take a guess and say, maybe it’s because they sound like they’re a bunch of sleazeballs?
oh, you’ve got a keyword on leapfish? LOL, as if anybody on the entire internet cares….
LOL, “proud owner of a keyword”! Smell the astroturf!
I could get use any keyword for free by submitting to free web directories.
Is that legal?
They called and the name I recalled from TechCrunch leaped to the forefront in my mind. I was curious about their pitch.
In my case, it would actually make sense to do business with them as my customers are more likely to use an alternative search engine rather than just Google. Not by choice, I should add. Their systems tend to be controlled by 3rd parties that redirect search engines.
Leapfish representative talked about their toolbar distribution as their vector of approach.
Not a good idea.
WOW. That is a seriously bad salesperson. Are they high up in the company, or just a really bad employee?
Everyone talking about how they were pushed to talk to a sales manager reminds me of Boiler Room..
http://www.yout...h?v=TbIRedOqDwE
“RECO!”
If there’s anyone here who hasn’t seen this, you need to go see it now.
http://www.amaz...ASIN=0780631536
Someone should report those retards to Google.
this is bullshit, google does not count repetitive clicks from same ip on the same page.
and here we go again, another comment from LeapFish.com
Actually, that comment was accurate – do you even know anything about Adwords?
We’ve been with Google Adwords for some time now and click fraud isn’t new to them. Any advertiser who knows better does take this matter seriously and tasks Google with preventing it.
And Google does a great job at identifying and preventing it (not saying it’s perfect).
To say the statement is inaccurate is basically saying Google Adwords has a huge “security hole” in their tried, tested and true business model.
And no, they don’t. It’s their bread and butter.
I’m sure it’s a bad salesperson. My account rep was very professional. Looks like someone is about to get fired and rightfully so. Still think the search engine is cool though
Sure Frank, the company you work for has a very cool search engine. Sigh.
Which company was that you worked for again Frank? And how many ‘keywords’ did you buy to get a whole ‘account rep’ from LeapFish?
That’s embarrassing. Enough said.
Great. Now I can check out the values of “LeapCrunch” and “TechFrog” and “RazorMeme” and ridiculous company names-to-be like that.
Homer was so ahead of his time with “EdgeSlice”…
Fuck you and go back to your desk at rip-off-people-who-dont-want-your-shitty-service Corp.
Fuck Leapfish, everyone who works there – AND their families.
That’s a bad business model all the way around and hard to believe the owners have faith in it making money.
5% yearly fee just to keep the KW? ridiculous.
Wow Robin I read your last post on these guys. Looks like you really want these guys to fail. Good job avoiding the actual engine. Looks like techcrunch has turned into the national enquirer.
sup leapfishCEO,
also just figured i’d post on this article before the legal fallout.
leapfish is not a search engine… it’s scam.
This is not as big a deal as people are making it.
First of all, Google does not charge per click from the same computer. Secondly, I seriously doubt that the sales rep clicked 50 times. Undoubtedly, a poor decision to gain business, but c’mon, cyberextortion? Let’s get over it.
Then tell me why I’ve had clients who had their google ads suspended and terminated for clicking their links just 10 times from 8 different computers?
Nice job Leapfish, convince everyone you AREN’T criminal scum.
give this guy a break! He was trying hard maybe too aggressive, but still take it easy on him.
I’d like to take it easy on him… just as easy as the state of Texas on a deathrow inmate.
You’re all criminals. I hope nothing but the worst for you and your families.
you are a true punk.
Indeed, their search engine is pretty cool but these guys can’t be doing business like a bunch of wiseguys. What happens when their potential customers turn the tables on them and give them a dose of their own medicine?
Everyone of those people should band together, report them to every search engine for click fraud, Digg the hell out of all the bad publicity for LF, and contact all their current advertising customers to let them know about LF’s intentions of committing click fraud. That should be a good start. Any other ideas?
“Take it easy” on a guy who’s intent was to cost someone else money for nothing in the hopes he would somehow be stupid enough to do business with him later?
Are you really that seriously stupid, Nathan Jugop? Really>
I would venture a guess that it is either him (the sales rep) or another person affiliated with leapfish.
1- is leapfish paying for any keyword, i would like to click a couple of times there
2- have you checked whether these 20 clicks were actually done, they might just send the email without really clicking (which is still bully sales tactics but… )
Stay classy leapfish. Those are some interesting sales techniques. Sort of like plaguing a network with worms so you can blackmail them into buying your virus protection. This site covers digital security/fraud issues pretty well I’ve found.
If you were contacted by these guys, let Google/Yahoo/ know.
Get their IP ranges banned, then let’s see if their ‘business model’ still valid.
I don’t understand why does Robin even bother to cover such a crappy site anyways …
I guess Leapfish believes: “There’s no such thing as bad publicity” and keeps paying Robin
You’re actually thinking they paid me for this post? Seriously?
Does anyone know if click fraud is even against the law. I read an article last week it might have been on TechCrunch that said the average click fraud rate is like 18% with a 28% rate on networks. Just adding that up would make it one the largest crimes by total dollar amount, it might even surpass illegal drugs.
So is it against the law or just a violation of TOS? Maybe it falls under some other bucket for fraud?
Google will refund the money if you ask.
can you say future deadpool
I asked around and heard that the sales guy had been there for one week, was fired today, and made an example of to the whole company. Stupid is as stupid does. This doesn’t excuse the fact that someone needs to hire some experienced sales people and stick with them. Also, having a CRM system so your prospects aren’t getting calls and being completely annoyed from 5 different people from the same company would be helpful. There’s really no excuse for hiring incompetent people in this market or using rocks instead of hammers to manage your sales pipeline and customer relationships. Experience is the only thing that is going to get companies through this time, and it seems like Leapfish is lacking exactly that.
This also doesn’t excuse claiming that this is their “business model”, Robin. I’m sorry, but I find this post incredibly malicious and shallow. And obviously the commentors here have never had a coworker, whom you had nothing to do with, who did something stupid and that reflected poorly on all your hardwork.
He was fired today??? Before or after this post was published… Let me take a wild guess here…. After. Am I right?
Yes, it was obviously a result of this fiasco. This is what CRM systems, email policies, etc. are for. Some companies think it’s okay to overlook this stuff. Every correspondence with customers should be recorded somewhere, and if you have a team where there isn’t time or effort being spent on training, they all better know their stuff. Seems like the sales guy *obviously* didn’t know what click fraud is and thought he was being convincing. It had n00b written all over it.
He was fired never. It’s just something for Ben to write in a letter to make Leapfish sound like a responsible company.
Hammers to manage a pipeline? Apparently you’re not a Plumber. Ever hear or a wrench?
luckycharms, you seem to know a lot about that salesperson. Do you also work for LeapClick?
luckycharms or bullshit rhymes ??
hmy:
Mr. Ben Behrouzi – don’t you realize you need to spend time running your company to something close to a normal behavior instead of making up funny names in comments and saying things we all know are full of bull???
get a normal job, a normal comapny or maybe just a friendly cellmate
haha thats really funny, my biggest question besides the moral issue, did google flag that as click fraud???
i mean can u send that email onto the google adwords team and they will credit your account?? what more proof do they need that it was click fraud…?
ive been caught out once contacting a competitor that i was researching and had clicked their adwords and it resulted in a 404 error, they were very pleased but strangely never replied to my email offering them consulting services..
I told them I would buy a keyword if they could get written up in Techcrunch – well, they succeeded!
I think these guys they have working for this company are a big disappointment. The ONLY reason this company will crash and burn will be due to the lack of quality in their Management and Sales staff. If they fire everybody except the designers of this website, they will make a fortune. The advertising scheme of selling keywords and having no limitations on exposure, no monthly fees, no pay per click, and permanent ad space as long as renewal fees are paid……that is a great way to advertise.
Actually it’s a horrible business model, if the website is not marketed and has no traffic like Leapfish then you get nothing when you purchase the keywords. With google or any other pay per click vendor, there has to be delivery of an action before you are charged, a defined benefit, not so with this model, They can and do take your money and never lift a finger and there is nothing you can do…. they do not have to perform.
The lack of value is demonstrated by the same cost per keyword regardless of how much popular the keyword is.
In theory, over time, as the most popular keywords are purchased, users are forced to pay the same price for less valuable keywords that perform poorly… the model degrades with time.
In this case it does not matter because leapfish doesn’t advertise anyways, it’s a definite scam. The only traffic LeapFish has ever gotten has been derived from TechCrunch’s previous coverage …
do you idiots even know if clickfraud exists? Don’t you think Google has checks and balances in place? This is the biggest pack of morons I’ve ever encountered. On the one hand you have Tom Dauschle who openly admits stealing $128K from you and getting away with it, and the other you want to hang this Leapfish guy from a tree. You all should really get a life and learn how the internet truly works. What a waste of bandwidth. Cyberextortion indeed (and most of you can’t even spell it).
Did this post hit a nerve? We all know that Google has measures in place, this post is not about that.
Read it again and tell everybody you are sorry for your comment and you are sorry for working at LeapFish.
Ben Behrouzi – is this you again????
….I can smell you….. rrrrrrrrrrrrrr
why everbody is so superficial?
…wow…
I’d never heard of them, and I just checked out the site. So their gimmick is distracting auto-updated search results while you’re still trying to type your query? Why? So you don’t have to hit enter?
I once worked with someone on a project that approached that kind of thing for advertising, but not for the intended search CONTENT…
I must be missing something. No one would thing that was enough to base a search business on, would they?
Pretty amazing the lengths some people will go to isnt it?
ER
http://www.onli...anonymity.at.tc
Class action time. They must have some money to take, let’s take it for this outrage.
Put the pitchfork down, please.
This is really pushing it. Yeah, the 50 clicks will (probably) not be charged. But, the guts.
Someone ought to give em a bit of their own shit.
I am sure there is ´more of us´then there are of them
Anyone?
That IS extortion. Someone needs to throw those people in prison. This is the internet, not some Mafia front.
Here’s their address if you are in the area and want to punch them 50 times in the face =P
DotNext Inc.
4420 Rosewood Drive
Suite 2550
Pleasanton, CA 94588
Sarah @ http://www.youarestellar.com
http://www.youarestellar.com is awesome! Can i have sex with you now ?
or a Threesome maybe ?
komik eğlenme mizah
These guys are so stupid. Their product is garbage, the site is ugly, their colors don’t match, their technology sucks and they are just plain dumb. The founder is dumb, ugly, smelly and doesn’t really deserve to live at all whatsoever This product is just the stupidest thing in the world and these guys should all be shot for even attempting to breath and build something. How dare they try to build something. Don’t go there, its stupid and they are all just gangster from the hood.
… and there is my comment. Figure robin and the mob would support and like the negative comments. Good job, just bash the hell out of them. Hell how dare they try to create something.
Clearly an attempt to inflame this discussion…
Yes, that’s exactly what everyone here is so pissed off about, that this company is trying to “create something.”
Not that they’re trying to get business by reminding potential clients that they need “protection” from click fraud.
You’d think, in this day and age, a company, let alone a web advertising company, would realize all the stupid things it could do to dump their credibility and simply avoid them.
Comments from their IP? Click fraud? Sending an extortionist email and not thinking it’d make it to at least one, if not a half dozen, high traffic websites that track the tech industry? Geeze…
This is fascinating. Although it’s certainly not the first time I’ve heard of tactics like this, it’s sad that it won’t be the last. Unfortunately salespeople like this spoil things for rest of us that have legitimate sales pitches to present. You can understand when a VP of Marketing becomes overwhelmed and frustrated with unsolicited bullying like this. I love that this whole thing was posted, and acknowledged by the interactive community. We need to continue to police our own. This (to me) is why we’re still struggling to get the respect we deserve in the advertising and marketing communities.
extortion: the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one’s office or authority.
OK class – read it over and over until you understand. Then get back to work.
And I suggest you look up “protection racket.”
Nuff said.
Yes click fraud is illegal under the civil laws that enforce the Google TOS that you agreed to..
OK Fred, then quantify it. Is 50 clicks click fraud? 5 clicks? How is it proved? Whose log records are subpoenaed? What if he didn’t really click 50 times? What if my stack of papers is resting on my mouse and “clicking” away while I go get a cup of coffee from sheer weight on the mouse? Click fraud?
Clearly not extortion per the definition, so you tell me, Mr. Genius.
Give it a rest already. Bunch of wannabe cops.
11 hours pass and you are still around? Jeez Louise, you had best be a troll, because any person trying to run a legitimate business with that kind of attitude is sure to lose.
also, I am hoping that you are hiding well behind 7 proxies.
One more thing, Fred, since you seem to know it all. Let’s say I click on your web site (I don’t use google – go straight to your web site) – and I click 50 times (intentional or not).
In that case, I guess I’m only accountable to your internet police TOS (which is non-existent).
Cmon Fred – you must know the answer.
I mean the cartoon character
The Spongebob here is just a crook, of the cheap kind. Get an honest job even if it doesn’t pay a lot, you might end up more satisfied with your life.
Hehehe, spongebob MUST be the one who got fired- or his wife! No one else could take it so personally LOL
The sales representative that called us was actually really nice (and a pretty good salesperson) but after doing my research I decided that the company’s business model was either unreal or too good to be true. I mean, come on, people have tried all of this before and it never works. After asking several times (and not getting an answer) what their traffic was like for our industry, I finally said no, but to call back in 2 months so we can see what the traffic looks like for them.
[Coincidentally?] The very next day, my boss starts asking why our clicks jumped up so high all of a sudden, and why we were paying so much. Ouch…
They called me too, idiots with no sales ability and a useless search engine.
I don’t see what the big deal is. Back when I was selling cars, we would slash the tires on the car the potential customer drove up in. We would always just tell the customer, “hey, take it easy on the salesman. He was just a little over aggressive,” and everything would be ok….
dirtbags
You’re not serious are you? If I *ever* caught a salesman doing something like that he’d “accidentally” get punched in the face…
HA! You wouldn’t do anything, “Terry the Fairy.”
Seriously Terry we all know u wouldn’t do anything……little girl…..
Ha both of you guys are hilarious! The thing is I’m not a coward like the 2 of you are your the one’s who would do nothing if someone slashed the tires on your car. Speak for yourselves assholes.