It’s time for an update on the progress we’ve made on the low cost touch screen tablet that I first wrote about in July 2008 when I asked for a dead simple touch screen web tablet that boots right to the browser. Here’s our first post on the tablet, which we’re now calling the CrunchPad internally.
The idea is to get a new type of device into people’s hands for as cheap as possible (we were aiming for $200, it looks like $299 is more realistic). It fits perfectly on your lap while you are sitting in front of the TV, so you can look up stuff on Wikipedia or IMDB as you channel surf. It plays Flash video flawlessly so you can watch movies and TV shows on Hulu or Joost or wherever. Or listen to music on MySpace Music. Or use TokBox to have a video chat with your parents. Then check email and call it a day. Facebook, MySpace, YouTube, Hulu, Wikipedia, Google Docs and Gmail are the killer apps for this device.
Because the device skips the resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on one application – the browser – very low end hardware can be used and still give users a desktop-like Internet browsing experience.
We built a working but very humble Prototype A in August. It barely booted, but once it did it was a working touch screen web tablet built on very low end hardware. And when I surfed the web with it, I knew I wanted one that worked properly.
Since August a lot has happened. First, we now have a team lead – Louis Monier. Louis, formerly the founder/CTO of AltaVista (he is credited with building one of the first Internet search engines), has also spent time at eBay (head of the Advanced Technology Group), Google and Cuil. Louis left Cuil in the Fall and has been spending his spare time working with outside teams to build the new prototype. He’s in love with the project, and we’re lucky to get his time.
Second, we’ve completed Prototype B of the CrunchPad and are ready to show it to you. I include pictures and video to show it in action.
CrunchPad Prototype B
The device has a 12-inch touchscreen with a 4:3 aspect ratio (which is ideal for web browsing in my opinion). It is powered with a Via Nano processor, which has performed at par with the Intel Atom in our testing. 1 GB of ram (its more than we need) and a 4 GB flash drive to store the OS and browser and any cache. Resolution is 1024×768, which means the vast majority of websites are viewed in full width without scrolling. The device also has wifi, an accelerometer (so when you turn the screen on its side you can view more of a web page), a camera and a four cell battery. Total cost of the device, when we include estimates for the case, codecs and other miscellaneous items, is just over $200. Prototype B is actually much less expensive because the screen we used isn’t very good. The price estimate includes a much better, more expensive LCD.
The case, which was designed and built by David Yarnell and Greg Lalier from Dynacept, is 12.5″ x 9.7″ x 1.3″. It’s about twice as thick as is needs to be without further engineering – we just built in a safety thickness in case of heat or other issues. The device weighs three pounds, partially due to the extra batteries we’ve stuffed into it to see how long we can run it without power. Still, the device weighs in at 2 oz less than the 10″ eeePC.
The software: currently we’re running a full install of Ubuntu Linux on the prototype with a custom Webkit browser. A lot of the work done to date has been on the drivers and the virtual keyboard, which you can see in the videos. The software has been created by Singapore-based Fusion Garage, who continue to work with Louis on the feature set and user experience.
More pictures:
Here are the videos:
What’s next?
We’ve completed our original goal of building a “dead simple and dirt cheap touch screen web tablet to surf the web.” The hardware is nearing lockdown. Software development is rolling. And we’ve spent very little money to get to this point.
We’ve received thousands of comments and emails from people who want this device right now. We’ve had tremendous support from the community in helping us build the prototypes, and Via has been flat out amazing with their support of the project.
We’ve also gotten quite a bit of interest from the investment community. The real question for us is whether this project has legs and should go forward towards production units, which is a very big step from a working prototype. That would require spinning the company off from the blog and building a team around Louis. It’s a decision we haven’t made yet.
This looks amazing, Michael. Best of luck with the progress and can’t wait to get my hands on one.
What, no aluminum unibody?
This is really interesting.
Michael, even we’d done some tech research work on this kind of device (not exactly the same purpose) but very similar design and features about 2 years ago.
We’d considered http://www.e-ink.com ’s electronic-paper displays (at that time colored screens were not available)…. and with a touch-screen layer of-course.
I must congratulate your team in doing the right thing with a focussed approach, rather than making a leaptop which does every damn thing on earth!! Will be of any help to you should you need any help from Asia on this product.
cheers,
Marvin http://latticepurple.com
Congrats as well… it’s nice to see you expand beyond your blog and into real products (diversification is nice).
Jon
http://WoodMarvels.com – Create Unique Memories
slide out keyboard which also work as stand instead of Lego..
Please say “no” to the slide out keyboard. It has USB for an external keyboard. Leave it at that. This is a laptop, not a cellphone.
he meant to use as a stand, not on the crunch pad having a built-in slide out keyboard
Too all TC peeps reading about the CrunchPad, I just spent some time writing up a detailed post on it, trying to synthesize a lot of the information posted here, including new info gleaned from Mike in all the comments so far.
I think its a pretty complete post, take a look and feel free to share your opinion, would love to hear from you all.
http://www.ianm...-prototype.html
Hey all you Vulture Capitalists out there …
look at this Arrington guy – he’s from your stable – lawyer, innovator, venture capitalist, well versed in IT and IP law, made lots of bucks, arrogant like the majority stakeholder in a big bad business, and yet, knows how to listen to geeks and common people with good ideas.
This is a challenge to all of you vultures out there – you have it in your pocket to get our economy out of the shit that (…) got it into.
But do have the common sense to go with all the money you have tucked into your safe? Spare a few bills for these techie types – who DONT ask for expensive furniture in posh offices – all they ask is a web platform, the hardware they need to test their ideas and some money for assurance to not go hungry.
Wanna be the next Buffet? These techie guys are your friends.
Don’t spend all your money on sexy models and expensive furniture. Buy these guys kits, hardware, web servers and of course, pizza, coffee, clothes and rent.
Larry and Sergey were turned down by “respected” vulture capitalists for over a year. Ask those guys how they feel now. Really, ask them. Now.
Mike is showing you in all the glorious detail, how to go about doing it – unfortunately, you need to do some thinking beyond your stock valuation and risk prediction percentages and figures and also beyond your secretary’s figure. Go figure.
If you cant do anything on your own just read what Mike has posted so far and remember, Larry and Sergey were turned down by VCs for over a year.
)
One rich guy saw what they saw and he didn’t trouble them with a single question. He just put the cash into their hands after a hour’s worth of talking and he didn’t come back to ask for anything for months.
And now, you cant live without that one-box website they made, can you?
I’m talking of Google (some VCs still do not know their story)
In short, study this story properly.
(PS: No hat tips needed
cheers to that
I can’t help but think you people are missing the picture. By building a team around someone who has never done a consumer CE project, you’re missing most of the costs. Like the tech support call center. Like the returns. Like the profit for the retail channel. Like profit for yourselves. Like advertising – selling 1,000 units to the tech crunch loyal is all well and good, then what?
The rule of thumb is end user purchase price is 2x bill-of-materials. If you’ve got a $300 pre-transformation BOM, you’ve got a $600 end user product.
Go look at GPS units. Lower hardware profile in a couple of ways, far cheaper screen, maps are a profit center for most companies, and look at their prices. That’s the effect of marketing, sales, support, channel. What, you think they’re just out there burning their money? That’s a tough business, and if they could present a $10 lower price they would.
Another example is the Kindle, which is probably selling at 0 profit and 0 ad budget because it’s on the front page of the largest retailer in the world every day. And guess what – amazon won’t publish their sales figures, but it’s pretty low.
If you have a way to sell products that doesn’t involve advertising and channel and profits for investors, you may be on to something. But when you go to investors, I suggest you leave that last part out.
I can’t help but think you people are missing the picture. By building a team around someone who has never done a consumer CE project, you’re missing most of the costs. Like the tech support call center. Like the returns. Like the profit for the retail channel. Like profit for yourselves. Like advertising – selling 1,000 units to the tech crunch loyal is all well and good, then what?
The rule of thumb is end user purchase price is 2x bill-of-materials. If you’ve got a $300 pre-transformation BOM, you’ve got a $600 end user product.
Go look at GPS units. Lower hardware profile in a couple of ways, far cheaper screen, maps are a profit center for most companies, and look at their prices. That’s the effect of marketing, sales, support, channel. What, you think they’re just out there burning their money? That’s a tough business, and if they could present a $10 lower price they would.
Another example is the Kindle, which is probably selling at 0 profit and 0 ad budget because it’s on the front page of the largest retailer in the world every day. And guess what – amazon won’t publish their sales figures, but it’s pretty low.
If you have a way to sell products that doesn’t involve advertising and channel and profits for investors, you may be on to something. But when you go to investors, I suggest you leave that last part out.
By the way, Dell is shipping a windows laptop with higher specs than yours *today* for $300 final price to consumers. (The Mini 9). Dell is very good at supply chain and manufacturing and call centers.
Good luck!
You dont get the point. The Kindle is a very good example: I dont know anyone who wants to spend a lot of money for a device that restricts your freedom to buy a book and give it to a friend after reading.
The crunchpad in combination with Linux is freedom. I guess thats what the netbook hype is all about.
Although I am optimistic about the future of technologies like the “CrunchPad” and I can see where it would be useful, I have to agree with the above poster regarding the realities of consumer electronics.
um, the dell mini 9 doesn’t have a touch screen.
anyways, once the details are worked out, the parts could be ordered from the manufactures (via a project website), and assembled by the users as a kit. it’s not too complicated. a case, display, and integrated motherboard. the assembly of such a kit could be made as easy as putting the lid on a tupperware container.
this way users have more options too. (case shape, color, upgrading motherboard, display, etc.)
btw, the dell mini 9 also has their silly logo on it. as does any other prefab computer.
if this idea is given to the public, and resources are organized to be available to the public, viral marketing should be more than enough.
if everything was made this way (one day everything will) the quality of life for everyone will be far more than our wildest dreams.
Congrats, I love it. Hope the processor performance (heat issues in mac book air) is sufficient to play processor intensive flash videos.
@peterurban
Where’s the twitter channel for CrunchPadB?
Mike, you’re slower than me
I forgot to add:
Two scroll wheels and two zoom buttons.
People use cell phones – lots of them – that one big button in the middle with four arrow buttons – that might be a good idea too. Let’s call it backward-compatible UI for usability.
And a gun-style ( [ + ] ) moving zoom rectangle, that you can move with the above four controls.
If you don’t get rich after adding these four controls, I’ll give you all my worldly possessions!
And the thing must have a strap to sling it across your chest / shoulder / arms.
follow the yellow smiley
“Who” owns this?
MA, your an attorney at heart so I’m sure you have this covered.
But with all “contributors” with this…and even a separate spin-off company most likely, I’d hate to see this go to court for folks wanting their “cut” given this going to production and taking off…
why does someone have to own it? have you heard of General Public License?
When will this be Avalible? I need one ASAP!!!
Come on! Get this thing going ASAP, great idea, there should be a market for it!
I’d pay $500.
your an idiot lol
i’d pay 450
BestJobsOnline
http://tinyurl.com/7uj5ay
I want one or two. Can you make it so I can put my own logo on it? I’d pay $30 more for that.
I’d pay $30 extra to keep Scoble’s logo off mine.
I’m KIDDING!
You sir, have just become my hero.
I’d pay $30 extra to keep Scoble’s logo off mine, and I am NOT kidding!
Make some stickers, which cost less than $30 and put em on it. Stupid ass feature request.
Stickers are ugly. Stupid ass indeed.
Anyone who says “stickers are ugly” are folks who obviously haven’t seen Infectious and its products.
http://www.infectious.com/
At $300, I’d take at least two, more likely three, and possibly five.
If I could figure out a way to make them only run on my cafe’s network (a hardware hack to the WiFi card, maybe), I’d have them available to customers.
Combined with a case-etched logo (which is harder to disable than a sticker), a network-locked device like this would be a hit in a lot of situations. It’s going to be a hit no matter what.
Will they be able to save profile information (browsing history, etc.) to a network service out of the box, or is that another hack that ’s going to have to be written after release?
Thanks for all the good work.
JD
This is a great idea and I imagine a way to get some larger, bulk orders in place to help move the project forward.
1. Ability to lock the device to given router.
2. Etched logo for bulk orders
At that point I could see lots of places where you could loan these out to customers – people waiting at the car dealership for service, say, as well as coffee shops, libraries, etc…
Philip Seymour Hoffman will want one of those as well.
I want my own logo too.
What format do I make the logo – PSD, SVG, or BMP or is there a Techcrunch listed logo app online?
What’s the charegs for making the logo and for getting it on the piece?
My wallet is open already.
can YOU make it so you can put your own logo on it?
Why are you going with a full install of Ubuntu? Wouldn’t you be better off stripping it down as much as possible, or do you want to leave it as a fully functional PC?
Looks great, by the way. I’m all for the production route, or, if not, at least send me the prototype
its just for the prototype, which was mostly to lock down hardware and prove the concept. We’re stipping linux down to its core in the next internal release.
Perhaps it would be nice if you did offer the full version of linux as well via firmware upgrade or something (if that is possible). How is performance in general (in linux)
as you can see in the video, performance is fine. it’ll get better as Linux gets stripped. The key thing we’ve learned is that super low end hardware works just fine when all you do is run a browser and nothing else.
If the success of Amazon’s Kindle is any guide, people do want hand-held device that does one thing, and one thing only, right, as opposed to some existing gadgets that claim to do gaming, music, telephony, etc.
TechCrunch could advertise that it only does web surfing and people would appreciate the laser focus. In fact, allow me to recommend a minimalist tag line for this device: “Surf.”
Now, I know you are working with WebKit, but UI-wise, have you looked at Mozilla’s Ubiquity? Especially since they are developing a point’n'click interface for it, too.
“Surf” has already been used by Asus for the eeePCs. I think CrunchPad is golden, as a name. Keep it!
Just three suggestiong Mike:
1. Please, pretty please: create a snap on peripheral to the sides of it so you can have wasd and arrows plus some two or three extra buttons to play online games!!! (Maybe maybe get two dpads working on the sides?).
2. Can you please show it off playing Auditorium? (try and you’ll see what i’m talking about!!!).
3. I know you want to create the ultimate Internet Tablet with the cloud as the OS… but let us know if you can run at least the following apps: Gimp, Gedit, Agave, Inkscape, Screem, and any MySQL Administrator with GUI (and maybe apache with php and mysql if it’s not much, if it is then we can still use any other PC as the server). The tablet would be awesome for Website Development!!!
Thanks and keep up the good work!
Whiskey…
I love the Crunchpad, but you want to use it for website development? I’m afraid that a machine with a stripped down processor, and with a screen resolution of 1024×768 is not likely to be appropriate for that kind of use.
Your overall enthusiasm is significant though, and is really indicative of the excitement that this potential product is gathering.
Having the ability to Video/Voice oIP is essential. Then again, a camera could be an option.
Whiskey, you should develop web based versions of gimp, gedit, agave… hell, develop a web based desktop!
YOU CAN DO IT!
I want one so bad. I only hope you’ll ship international
Japan says: “Kore ga iru! We need this!”
Ditto – hoping you’ll ship these down under!
Wow that looks awesome… can’t wait to get my hands on one when it’s ready.
What’s with the lego blocks? Was there a lego blocks prototype?
In any case, looks very cool. Hopefully the aesthetics will change quite a bit more though. Oh, and more battery power.
i laughed when i saw that. but only because my stand looked exactly the same, except made out of wood scraps…
i took the display and mobo out of what was a dell inspiron, and mounted them back to back, minus dvd-rom.
btw, a clear plastic acrylic case option might be cool for kids (and kids at heart).
Didn’t you hear in the video? That’s the stand. It does not come with the tablet, but is sold separately on Amazon for a $25 or 50 Pepsi points.
LOL
Awesome stuff. The case is a bit ugly, though. And the UI needs some serious work.
Have you hired a good design firm, or had any work donated?
there are a lot of things that need work, agree. The case serves to keep the insides from falling out right now. The back and front end software is just getting started. lots of work to do.
but i’ll say this. sitting down on a couch with this thing and watching a movie on Hulu is just wonderful.
Is there any way how to contribute to the software side of project?
I like the idea, it definitely needs some refinement, would this be classed as a webtop?
What would be the main use scenarios for this? in front of the TV on the couch?
Michael–
A great start. My company, Kicker Studio, does UI and product design, specializing in touchscreen devices. Let us know if you’d like some design help on the hardware or software.
http://www.kickerstudio.com
Dan
the display for the previous macbook pro is the way to go. perfectly square with corners slightly rounded. no buttons except power, which might do well next to usb on the side.
aluminum, mate black, clear acrylic…
Seen this?
http://www.oran...lang/fr/play/1/
That is so fucking awesome.
Please do this and keep the price under $300 – closer to $200 even better. You will sell shitloads of these things. I can imagine buying two for our household alone. This device plus a Gears-enabled browser so that one could use hybrid web/desktop applications would handle about 90% of my computing needs. How about bluetooth so one could use a full-sized keyboard????
Awesome idea!
I also believe that the product will sell itself very well. Once the first series is available for purchase, there will be an iPhone size hype around the web. I can see the future of TechCrunch in hardware industry if they manage to pull this one!
Blurtooth however is not needed for the external keyboard. I don’t see it fit in the idea of the product. It should be simple touchscreen, adding an external keyboard just ruins the touch screen idea.
If it doesn’t raise the price much, Bluetooth keyboards are a must. Just because it has a touch screen doesn’t mean that people can’t decide to use it for other needs. I don’t like that Apple doesn’t let people connect bluetooth keyboards to the iPhone for the same reason. Companies shouldn’t dictate how their customers use their products, they should give them the freedom to take their products to the next level!
I could see, for example, for my parents, that this could very easily be a desktop replacement for them as they mostly just do email and surf the web. I believe this is the typical behavior for a lot of people, but a keyboard is necessary to send normal email.
input:
- external keyboard, yes (BT or USB): what’s the point of a large (expensive) screen if have of it is taken by a virtual keyboard, not half as good as a real one?
- handwriting recognition (that’s the point of a large screen: use it as you would use paper.
browser: firefox please: the browser is going to be the only application on the machine, it has to be flexible enough.
Some web applications will probably be developed to improve the usability of the CrunchPad every now and then. Who knows, we might see some web based handwriting recognition applications and similar.
@kobinata – obviously you’ve never used an iphone. The virtual keyboard is great for when data input is necessary, but for normal web browsing it disappears your point about having the screen taken up is moot. Best of both worlds.
I do appreciate the concept that you only want to make this a device for browsing the Web; however I do think it’d be cool (and useful) to be able to play music from the device while watching the Web.
SongBird doesn’t have a large foot print and you could always strip it down since it’s build on the XUL framework…It’d fit right in with firefox.
H
If it had bluetooth we could use it with a scanner and our web based inventory software.
Looking fricking awesome. Good to see FusionGarage working on this. Saw them at Mobilize 08 in SF and seemed to have a good thing going.
those guys are rock stars.
Mike, thanks for the kind words and we appreciate the opportunity to work on Crunchpad
Troy , thanks for keeping us in mind. We were at Mobilize and have evolved since then. We are excited about working on the Crunchpad as well
Building this can be easy, but setting up the production, accepting orders, shipping, offering updates, customer support, wifi setup, internet connection to it through mobile phones, lowest price possible etc, there are a lot of things which should be given a thought before launching it!
OR…. just throw the first bunch out on ebay as prototypes, with no support beyond a webforum, and let the market dictate the price and create a support FAQ etc. I would use OSS’s motto: release early, release often.
First, great job to all involved, its quite an accomplishment in a short amount of time with limited resources.
A few things:
1. Include a 3G chip that allows me to pop in my SIM card or tether via bluetooth and get acess to this sucker anywhere via the already insanely priced data account I’m paying AT&T every month for my iPhone.
2. Why does the case look like its from 1995? It looks like Kindle all over again.
3. What about the new Intel chipset coming in June for netbooks that’s supposed to greatly improve battery life and run cooler, among other things?
4. Who’s doing usability testing for it? I study/work in the usability field, want help?
“sim card”? That would be some slow GSM network.
CDMA Rev.A is what you want here. Amazon’s Kindle uses Sprint’s CDMA network for a reason.
EVDO Rev.A goes up to 3.1Mbit/s while HSDPA (”some slow GSM network”), can go up to 7.2Mbit/s (already implamented in real world) or even 14.4Mbit/s. Who’s slow?
Using UMTS+HSDPA (the 3G/3,5G version of GSM) would reach more people, because CDMA is strong only in USA, Canada and in Japan’s KDDI. There isn’t CDMA networks in Europe and the ones in Latin America are migrating to HSDPA
Kindle uses CDMA because they got a good deal with Sprint and they don’t need to work outside US
Adding 3G modules is not cheap! Depending on the projected sales volume it can add $100 or more per unit.
http://lists.op...ber/038395.html
TY!
If you don’t already have and can’t get wifi where you’re going to be using this a majority of the time then this might not be for you. This obviously isn’t a device you want to travel with too much that it needs 3G. Quit screwing up the specs by asking for stupid things. Get a 3G USB modem if you absolutely need it and ask for more USB ports.
just have a couple dif mobo options
Nice product!
Would it be possible to make the case slicker and stylish?
sweet deal!
Damn that looks nice Mike. I hope you guys end up following through, I would definitely buy it at the $299 price point.
Are the external ports (apart from power) prototype-only or aimed at the final hardware?
I’d question the need for an external display port and ethernet. I guess USB is useful for managing downloads, but I’d keep it at that.
Excellent work by the way – you’ve got to be hoping Apple isn’t planning an iPod Touch-tablet! (hmmm “iPod Touchlet”..?)
there wouldn’t be an external display port, agree. power, headsets, 1 usb. that’s it. The USB is good for plugging in media, and plugging in a keyboard or mouse if you want to.
Why only 1 USB? I might want a keyboard AND a mouse.. plus if browser based games keep advancing it would be nice to play games using Keyboard and mouse.
fotunately those new pocket projectors can connect via usb. but it’d be cool to connect to a 52in hdtv.
there are wireless kb/mouse combos that use one USB connection (a cheap one is logitech’s EX100)
Even if Apple was, it’d be in a much different price range.
Michael, you clearly surpassed our expectations, congrats. Personally, I’d like it more if it was a little bit smaller, but that’s just my humble opinion. But, what I consider as an important question is that:
Do you also support .pdf?
Last, I understand that this is a really significant decision for you, but I do think you’ll proceed, and we can’t wait (just bet on “yes” in this market: “Will TechCrunch Tablet proceed towards production?” http://askmarke...elect_stock/799 )
Most impressive. If iPod Touch and Netbook were to “get married and produce a child”, it would look something like what you have.
Asus and Acer had better pay attention to what you are doing. I suspect you will be getting a call from Taiwan real soon.
And I suggest that you tell them, “Hey, throw money at me!”
Congrats!
I’ve got to hand it to Arrington and Co. This device looks frickin sweet!
Will you take cash?
Great to see this approaching fruition Mike
There is a mthod to get the price lower though, will mail you on it.
Which Flash Player version is running? with Adobe AIR for Linux, that could be a great platform for adding apps to the CrunchPad (as well as Gears and Prims anyway)
i want one in pink please.
of course.
the retailer in me says you can get a bunch of fashion designers to come up with limited edition skins and mark it up — but not too much.
love the HP Mini. love the Vivienne Tam version they were flaunting on the runways during fashionweek. HATE that it’s the same freakin’ laptop but marked up $200 more just because it’s Vivienne Tam.
an extra $100, i’d spend if it came in:
Ed Hardy
Juicy Couture
Hello Kitty
…i’m so serious too! chicks and all their boyfriends would be buying them one.
lol… pink it is then!
As I recall, Juicy Couture is all about fuzziness.
I can just imagine a fuzzy yellow laptop with Juicy charms that gets heated up from all the H.264 decoding work.
That should be one warm and fuzzy gadget.
Do you use N-trig digitizer? As far as I know they support multi touch and the touch is capacitive which is a must for such a device.
it also costs $100, on top of the screen. doesn’t work at the price point we’re looking for.
There are some high end resistive screens that actually work really well (the prototype is resistive and very responsive). multi-touch is best for when you need to zoom in and out of a screen. we don’t need to do that. so single touch and resistive may be just fine on this device.
…problem i see is that Sony could knock one of these things off in a heartbeat if it sees real demand. Not only could they beat you on price but would be willing to sell units at a loss with future profit potential.
Another challenge you will face is improving the design and engineering which will raise the cost by at least 2-3x at the scale youre producing.
So in the end, it is a great effort and proof of concept but you guys should look to partner with someone w/deep pockets and expertise in this area.
agree, although it’s not like we’ve been secretive about the project, and readers have been pretty vocal about “want one.” I’m not sure the big guys can psychologically get away from the OS as the center of attention. or the lack of a keyboard.
I thought that the Idea was to make this project open sourced? Anyways, glad to hear that you plan to make it sexy.
Sony has no clue about anything. Their netbook runs Vista, and “it’s not a netbook”. They want to compete with apple but they don’t offer linux or any other good os. The PSP is years old, has those clumsy proprietary UMDs, the PS3 is lagging behind the other consoles, and they have lost quite a staggering amount of money even before the recession comes up.
The DEFINITION of disruptive innovation is that large, established players, think the new things do not have their quality standards. Thus they slowly rot while the market evolves.
http://en.wikip...tive_technology
The real deal here is Quanta, Asus, Acer, and MSI.
Apple is already losing its lustre as a really innovative company, because their customers are begging for netbooks and for tablets, but the high priests, in all their paternalistic behavior, don’t think we need it.
It is simply amazing to see this coming up not from Apple or from Google, but from some dude who 5 years ago was going to “blog”.
This is the power of creative destruction. This is disruptive innovation. Sony and Apple and everyone else are being outmaneuvered by some guy whose blog took off. Just in time for the great depression to kick in. Congratulations, Mike. Keep it up.
Oh, how many seconds till this device is booted? (Now and target)
10 seconds from cold boot is no problem.
It would be nice to have under 5 seconds boot time. It requires careful tuning but definitely possible. Check this: http://lwn.net/...rticles/299483/
I concur with the 5 sec boot time. That is the point at which this device becomes a valid substitute for a PDA. With a wiki or SQLite running within the browser, this becomes a good substitute for the now impossible to find freestanding PDA.
Those boost are nontrivial, they are done by some of the best kernel hackers available. They make it seem so easy but there is a lot of know how invested in that tech demo.
E.g. They manage to read ~25MB/s almost constantly for 5 seconds, the idea is easy, the implementation is simple, but it’s not easy to get right. Perhaps Arjan van de Ven can be contacted, to get it done correctly for all distros, not just Mobilin.
If you have controll over the BIOS you could put a small image there during booting that allowed you to select what you want to do. Would be a cool hack..
The OS is going to be stripped down. It likely *will* reach that 5 second boot time, maybe even less depending on current kernel developers (for example, Intel aims their Moblin OS to boot in 2 seconds!).
Will people buy this additional device, as their mobile handsets will have the same functions and features and will come with a fold-out or roll-out display ?
Like the Readius
http://www.polymervision.com/
http://inventor...phone_5in_10090
I think a five inch display is really a completely different market. Once they reach ten inches, people probably will prefer them, but then you’re not really talking about near term developments.
Yeah, I totally break out my phantom phone and unroll its invisible non-existing screen all the time.
No offense, but I don’t understand how vaporware can possibly compare to something someone has actually held and proven to be, like, real.
Looks cool but do something take out that 80 Apple look. In any case will take one! just to play and salute the idea.
Wow. It is quite apparent that a lot of thought has gone into it.
I am slightly surprised at the choice of display. I understand that 4:3 display is ideal for web browsing (especially with large text-based websites). But this is aimed at the general consumer. In this case, wouldn’t the better choice be a 16:9 screen?
My understanding behind this is that in the laptop screen 16:9 seems to be becoming standard (mainly due to reduced panel costs apparently as they dont have two different aspect ratio for TV LCD or PC LCD) Also Youtube, Hulu etc are all mostly 16:9. Cameras are also moving towards 16:9.
With sufficient widespread adoption of widescreen display, web developers will soon targetting wider screens (thing of how much space is wasted around the edges in normal web pages). In this case, does a Widescreen 16:9 not make more sense.
Does this play the Netflix Streaming HD without lag/stutter? Then this would be a portable Roku like thingie as well. (This might be bit too much to ask, but does it have a HDMI out ?)
Anyway, my extra long post aside. This is brilliant. Keep up the amazing work. I am eagerly looking forward to Prototype C.
I must Agree with DK here. if the price difference is not that big, I would pay an extra for a Wide screen option [IF you are still having the device detect which way is up] as browsing forums with my screen in portrait is Wonderful, even though this can be done with a 4:3 anyway, there is not much point.
Maybe in the future the option for either shaped screen.
[Also to comment on other things I've read above]
- It does sound something Perfect for a Internet Cafe, Might need something like an Admin Mode.
- Bluetooth can be added via USB or have it as an optional extra
- Someone said about using 2 USB devices on 1 USB port. You can buy USB Hubs, but I will admit having a Hub hanging off the side would look a little horrible. Defiantly think you need 2 Ports and as far as i can remember back to my PCB classes, it wasn’t that hard adding a 2nd.
I think the use of 4:3 might be due to what’s available in the market and not by Mike’s choice.
“With sufficient widespread adoption of widescreen display, web developers will soon targetting wider screens (thing of how much space is wasted around the edges in normal web pages). In this case, does a Widescreen 16:9 not make more sense.”
This is a really smart point. 4:3 is just going to be completely outmoded really soon, for better or worse.
My biggest concern is the virtual keyboard, typing with just one hand seems quite impractical (though I didn’t see a test of how it goes writing with both hands).
Anyway, how the hell traditional producers haven’t came up with a product like this before? Really cool.
Couldn’t you sit it on your lap and type with both hands.
A low-end resistive touch screen would flip out if you used both hands, I’d imagine, even a responsive one.
Considering the custom home page, typing on the screen is supposed to be a nice perk, not a main feature. If you want to type, there’s your USB port.
look like my original post never posted.
The first model will be for the early adopters, and as a result, the price will likely be higher when first released, then if you wait 6 months to a year. Unfortunately, if you wait, there’s a really good chance that someone will beat you to market.
What was the original concept for this thing? a $99 internet tablet? for $99, I’d buy it today.
My advice, stick with the original concept. Make it an internet tablet. That means you’ll need power, either speakers or headphone jack to watch you tube videos, and maybe a usb port or two for those that don’t want to use the on screen keyboard. Might even be nice to print webpages too if needed.
as for all the extras that people want, (bluetooth, SD card readers, etc) Maybe you could integrate some sort of daughter card systemwith snap on components. I remember reading somewhere about lego-like hardwire where you had a base motherboard with an imbeded OS, and then you could snap on different chips to add new features. want blue tooth? just add on the bluetooth card.
maybe you could have the motherboard in the center, with snap-on connectors on each side of the motherboard. could even have removable plates on the back of the tablet for easy access, like the covers too RAM or hard drives.
This way, you can put out your simple base unit, and then the customer can customize it to fit his needs. Is there any reason why a CDMA or GSM chip needs to be on the motherboard? wouldn’t it work just as well on an add-on daughtercard?
Maybe this wouldn’t work, but I think it’s a pretty cool idea.
oh and since we’re talking features requests, where’s the pad website? Is there a form out there where we can submit requests?
I think it would be cool if we could select the features we want. You have the base model, then you can choose 3 or 4 features from the list (because typical motherboards are square and have 4 sides)
The one feature that I personally REALLY REALLY want, is I want a tablet that I can draw on. I have a WACOM tablet, and it’s ok, but I’d prefer to be able to draw directly on the screen, Yes, I know there are tablet PCs out there, and I know about the intuos usb tablet but i don’t want to spend $1000+ dollars , I want a $200 tablet that I can draw on, hand write notes, hand write out math equations. I want a digital sketch pad. That’s all I’ve ever really wanted from a computer.
I realize that’s not an internet tablet, but it could be a spin off product. Make the internet tablet, and I’ll buy that. Make me a digital sketchbook, and i’ll buy that one too. Even better, give me the opportunity to upgrade/crossgrade (by switching components), and I’ll even pay extra.
When I saw a link to this article, my first thought was that is was a simple digital sketch pad with some internet functionality. As a web browser only, no sale. Throw in the ability to draw on it, use a very simple paint program and give me a stylus and I’ll gladly pay three hundred and feel like I got a deal. I am not looking for whistles and bells, photoshop filters or even layers. I just want to be able to draw on a very simple computer that I can carry around. I have considered one of the modified Wacom macbooks and rejected it because it’s too expensive to use in the real world.
this is good work, but with ipod touch bigger size coming out, there is no place for any new company to target same market as apple
this should have been out like yesterday, not tomorrow….tomorrow belongs to apple!!!!!!!!
Congrats, on what you have accomplished so far. I’ve been dreaming of a tablet, but I wasn’t sure what happened with the project. I’m so happy to see that it’s coming along. Work on that case design if you can. It doesn’t look like something Apple would put out, and they are most likely making one also. I know cost is critical, but it looks a little bulky. I know it’s an aesthetic issue, but it’s something that shouldn’t be overlooked. Everything else seems to be coming together well. I can’t wait to get one. Or two.
It looks so cool…
这是上网本吧，俗称山寨。
gmail isnt a killer app on this unless there is a real keyboard. surfing the web, enjoying media…sure, but some physical keyboard is a must!
If I were you I would definitely make the touchscreen keyboard bigger. If you had it stretch from end-to-end of the screen it looks like it could work out nicely.
I would highly recommend taking investment and building a company around it. This is a cool product that is exitable. The key will be: 1) moving very quickly, 2) making it thinner and 3) improving the form factor.
Why strip down Linux when it’s already been stripped and re-dressed?
An Android mod, for example, would offer a lightweight browser with a well-tuned touch interface, even if it broke compatibility with third-party apps designed for smaller screens. It could easily add back some of the features I’ll miss in a minute, like a player for locally stored media (even if I have to add the storage by plugging in an ipod…). And if Google is fighting forking, there are other similarly stripped-down Linux-based UIs for “Mobile Internet Devices”, which is the nascent category that this clearly belongs to.
Imagine that the competition is the chimerical iPod Touch Tablet, with all its sexy native apps waiting, like no webapp yet built, to be poked and flicked by your fingers. What advantage is there then to a device that runs fewer apps on more expensive, less efficient x86 hardware? But beat that mythical beast into production by using an already existing software stack, and do it at a good price…
Completely agree on this!
Android would be better for this type of thing, especially with the Android market, the possibilities are endless. This would allow the tablet to be much more than just a web browser. I don’t think booting up directly to the browser would be a good idea, but whatever.
Android would definitely be a winner on this though.
I agree with the thread starter a modified version of Android makes the most sense here. It would be a lot easier than trimming down a linux build.
Just build a custom shell and you’re there.
>It would be a lot easier than trimming down a >linux build.
Its not rocket science you know.
Most CS students I know can do it.
You might be confusing this with Windows.
And trimming down Linux makes the most sense.
They want to customize the OS so NOTHING that isnt needed stays. BARE bones.
As for apps, that’s the fanbois side of you having penis envy.
They keep mentioning that they want this to be a browser and here you ahve people wondering which mind numbing useless apps they can get on.
Arrington says:”Because the device skips the resource-sucking parts of the operating system and focuses on one application – the browser – very low end hardware can be used and still give users a desktop-like Internet browsing experience.”
You can trim down Linux to run in appliances and even run a real-time operating system that runs out of the system BIOS like Splashtops pre-installed Linux.
Trimming down Linux is one of its main strenghts and you want to go the lazy route and just use an OS that isnt made specifically for the Crunchpad because Android is a buzz word and its makes you think of a competitor to the fruit logo.
> I don’t think booting up directly to the
>browser would be a good idea, but whatever.
Yeah about that… no wonder you would rather go the Android route, you didnt opay attention to what they said they want instead going with what you think should be their goal.
>Imagine that the competition is the
>chimerical iPod Touch Tablet, with all
> its sexy native apps waiting,
Careful!! Penis envy at work here.
Price creep/reality is a bummer.
199$ and you dont even think about it.
But 300$ is the same price as the Acer One we bought and it offers less functionality (I edit podcasts, prepare reports and edit family photos on mine) so youre going to have to compensate with some killer feature to make that diffeerence up.
I think portability/thinness is your way to go.
The Dell Mini 9 I use is perfect and very portable but the Crunchpad would be more portable (I dont want to even talk about reading/writing on 3 inch screens when I have 24inch monitors and a 52inch TV).
Just as the netbook goes places where my 2000$ wont go, the Pad can do about 75% of the things I do on the netbook…. because its more portable.
What is penis envy?
Being able to run at least *some* basic, useful apps (like a simple text editor to take notes) will at least be useful. I was excited about this product when I saw it, but that kind of quieted down when I read it really, REALLY is browser-only.
I love netbooks.
Their use has been proven in our household and we have two.
That said, Im ready to pre-order two CrunchPads because I have just two words: washroom reading.
I like the video chat option. I was going to say some IM program like Kopete to run the Yahoo/ICQ/AIMs of the world but if you can fit a videocam for under 200 bucks, more power to you.
A USB and Bluetooth would also be nice.
The product, specs, usefulness at 199$ is just awesome..
Make this happen.
How about a mailing list/RSS/web site to keep up to date with the project?
Video chat while sitting in the washroom? That should disqualify you as a buyer ;(
you’re sitting on the next IPOD.
be quick. patent if possible.
trademark your the name.
get the .everything
most of all, get it rolling before apple or sony steals your thunder.
The next iPod?? Come on…
Good luck with it mate!
I think the main competitor is the iPod touch/iPhone – which has replaced my main computer for 70% of my email. And the form factor of your device probably wouldn’t be suitable for the other 30% either…
Kinda like one of these but I guess it works.
http://reviews....10003760,00.htm
beautiful. i want one ,and i want to install android on it. considering it’s already been successfuly installed on the HP 2133, which runs on a VIA C7-M, that should not be too hard. (video here: http://www.lili...2133-video.html)
Interesting product. I recommend you guys don’t add too many additional hardware features (card readers etc.) to keep the cost as low as possible (unless you want to start competing with HP/ Microsoft). Keep it simple, easy and functional.
On another note, how will this stack up against something like Microsoft’s Origami? (if it’s ever released)
Have you considered pairing it with a 3G data contract with a cell phone company and making the tablet cost $1? This would be a device which could get the Internet anywhere in the entire country. Now THAT would be huge. Although I’d highly recommend to also sell it normally without the contract as a lot of people want to avoid setting up new monthly contracts…
Arrrggh no. I’m tired of not being able to buy tech because it’s tethered to a service I don’t have.
What part of “Although I’d highly recommend to also sell it normally without the contract as a lot of people want to avoid setting up new monthly contracts…” did you not understand?
Oh, be serious, would you?
That’s the equivalent of saying, “Well, you can buy an iPhone and not use AT&T!”
Yeah, technically, you can. Technically.
@ chuck. He understands. What you need to understand is you are you sound like a douche. Take it to the talkslikeabitch blog.
There’s a USB port. The carrier can buy the devices, bundle with the dongle, sell it for $1, whatever. Adding integrated 3G ups the price, the only feature that really matters.
I like it. Its like a big iPhone.
You can browse the web on it while lounging around your house.
Its interesting to see a blog network release a device.
I hope it sees the light of day.
Wow. I’m impressed.
Looks like you’re going to force Linux into my house after all!!!! Aieeeeeee!!!!!
would swype work on it?
I’d buy one of these. $300ish only, though. A little more than that and i’d just grab a netbook with a big screen.
Congrats, legos are very Stanford google like
Very Cool !!
Things i’m liking.
1 – You’re aiming for a low price point. (You’ll need to be making 500,000 or more I guess, to hit your target parts price)
Things i’m not liking.
With a 3-cell 150gm battery you’ll hit about 2.5 hours battery life.
You’ll also have a heat challenge with this, a 10-15W TDP device. Fans mean noise – a no no in a consumer device. Forget using it in bed!
It will be 2lb in weight minimum which means one-handed use )for that touchscreen keybaord) won’t be comfortable at all.
There are devices hitting the market in 2009 that will challenge this. The ASUS eee T91 is one of them. A full PC convertible with the same specs but has a keyboard for $500. A lot more in price but….it’s a full computer.
There are devices already out there that are similar in design (UREN, Porient, Samsung Q1U-EX) smaller but more expensive though.
Think about Origami 2006 and how we all cried out for three things. 1) Sub $500. 2) Keyboards 3) Battery life.
Steve – UMPCPortal.
Good work on the TC tablet; for some weeks now, I (and many others, I suspect) have wondered whether the tablet went into the dead pool too
I’m eager to get one myself, and at $300, not much can go wrong. I hope you ship to Asia (I’m in India)..
I love the concept, but I’ll remain on the fence. The screen seems great, easy to read, easy to use, and then I only become torn. Using the device seems, for lack of better word, strange.
CrunchPad type/active – Set the device flat on your lap/table and type and touch display.
CrunchPad glance/passive – Set the device on some sort of stand on the table so you can watch tv, and glance over at the web, but move to active mode if you want to interact.
Netbook/Laptop – Always active and passive. Can sit on table or lap without modifying user behavior, unless 3rd party hardware is dangling around.
So, without trying to outpower a netbook, you could outclass them with a few things. Being thinner/lighter. Being cheaper. Having really good software execution. Getting great battery life.
And all of these things seem counter productive. As soon as you can add two, the others fall apart. I admit it, I don’t have the answer. I hope your product will be a hit, but you’ll have to entice me more at this point.