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	<title>Comments on: Meet Mar.Com, The Techmeme For Marketing And Communication That Isn&#8217;t</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/</link>
	<description>Startup and Technology News</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:21:06 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<item>
		<title>By: توبكات</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2841501</link>
		<dc:creator>توبكات</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 20:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2841501</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the suggestion on the logo, we’ve modified it and several other things based on the community’s feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the suggestion on the logo, we’ve modified it and several other things based on the community’s feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: Albejar</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2588546</link>
		<dc:creator>Albejar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 11:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2588546</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’m sure there are numerous websites which have similar objectives as Mar.Com (although I can’t think of any besides Sphinn)&quot;

I guess http://www.earnersclub.net/ was also one of them - this site seems for spammy submissions but it is moderated carefully. You can find top and good articles there, if it&#039;s your niche.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m sure there are numerous websites which have similar objectives as Mar.Com (although I can’t think of any besides Sphinn)&#8221;</p>
<p>I guess <a href="http://www.earnersclub.net/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.earnersclub.net/'>http://www.earnersclub.net/</a> was also one of them &#8211; this site seems for spammy submissions but it is moderated carefully. You can find top and good articles there, if it&#8217;s your niche.</p>
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		<title>By: community</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2587727</link>
		<dc:creator>community</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2587727</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Mar.com - Marketing &amp; Advertising Community &#124; ......&lt;/strong&gt;

Bookmarked your post over at Blog Bookmarker.com!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mar.com &#8211; Marketing &amp; Advertising Community | &#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Bookmarked your post over at Blog Bookmarker.com!&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: You say meme, I say mime, meme, mime, let&#8217;s call the whole thing off&#8230;[EnquiringMimes]</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2581135</link>
		<dc:creator>You say meme, I say mime, meme, mime, let&#8217;s call the whole thing off&#8230;[EnquiringMimes]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 04:19:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2581135</guid>
		<description>[...] Meet Mar.Com, The Techmeme For Marketing And Communication That Isn&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Meet Mar.Com, The Techmeme For Marketing And Communication That Isn&#8217;t [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: You say meme, I say mime, meme, mime, let&#8217;s call the whole thing off&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580940</link>
		<dc:creator>You say meme, I say mime, meme, mime, let&#8217;s call the whole thing off&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580940</guid>
		<description>[...] Meet Mar.Com, The Techmeme For Marketing And Communication That Isn&#8217;t          Off-topic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Meet Mar.Com, The Techmeme For Marketing And Communication That Isn&#8217;t          Off-topic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeZ</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580684</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:56:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580684</guid>
		<description>Robin, well that clears that mess up. Thanks.

Webcock, thanks for the clarification and sharing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robin, well that clears that mess up. Thanks.</p>
<p>Webcock, thanks for the clarification and sharing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eric Karjaluoto</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580562</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Karjaluoto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 16:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580562</guid>
		<description>Hi all,

We launched something along the same vein a few weeks back called undrln. It&#039;s here: www.undrln.com

It&#039;s really just a simple reddit/digg clone. We made it largely for ourselves. We run a small interactive agency, and just wanted to have a good place to share/find links with friends.

So far traffic has been alright--in part due to our strong links within the design community. Submissions aren&#039;t that high yet, but I believe that&#039;s in part to due with launching just before the holidays. (Maybe not the smartest thing.)

Most of the users have commented that they like how clean it is. This is something that we really felt was missing from most of these sites. I, personally, am frustrated by how much noise there is on these sorts of sites and really just want quick links presented as simply as possible. 

Cheers!

Eric</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all,</p>
<p>We launched something along the same vein a few weeks back called undrln. It&#8217;s here: <a href="http://www.undrln.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.undrln.com'>http://www.undrln.com</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s really just a simple reddit/digg clone. We made it largely for ourselves. We run a small interactive agency, and just wanted to have a good place to share/find links with friends.</p>
<p>So far traffic has been alright&#8211;in part due to our strong links within the design community. Submissions aren&#8217;t that high yet, but I believe that&#8217;s in part to due with launching just before the holidays. (Maybe not the smartest thing.)</p>
<p>Most of the users have commented that they like how clean it is. This is something that we really felt was missing from most of these sites. I, personally, am frustrated by how much noise there is on these sorts of sites and really just want quick links presented as simply as possible. </p>
<p>Cheers!</p>
<p>Eric</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: scott</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580289</link>
		<dc:creator>scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 08:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580289</guid>
		<description>WTF. It is a new site. Cut them some slack. Happy  Xmas to you too. I haven&#039;t seen it but they erent the ones clamoring to be reviewed on tc. If you want to talk bad design. Is that photo of mike with his weird haircut still up?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WTF. It is a new site. Cut them some slack. Happy  Xmas to you too. I haven&#8217;t seen it but they erent the ones clamoring to be reviewed on tc. If you want to talk bad design. Is that photo of mike with his weird haircut still up?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Cheyne</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580135</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 03:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580135</guid>
		<description>I think they could of done better with the domain. While it is an incredible name, a more catchy and better suited domain would have been a better (and cheaper) alternative. These three letter domains are better suited for corporations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think they could of done better with the domain. While it is an incredible name, a more catchy and better suited domain would have been a better (and cheaper) alternative. These three letter domains are better suited for corporations.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mark Collier</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580097</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Collier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 02:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580097</guid>
		<description>Techmeme is no longer 100% automated either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Techmeme is no longer 100% automated either.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Batman</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2580007</link>
		<dc:creator>Batman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2580007</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the post, Robin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the post, Robin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: buzzup.com</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579988</link>
		<dc:creator>buzzup.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 00:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579988</guid>
		<description>We combine human editor and bots to collect tech news.  

http://www.buzzup.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We combine human editor and bots to collect tech news.  </p>
<p><a href="http://www.buzzup.com" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.buzzup.com'>http://www.buzzup.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robin Wauters</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579839</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Wauters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579839</guid>
		<description>Charlie was calling me an idiot, I told him shoo. And to answer your question, I think webcock above nailed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie was calling me an idiot, I told him shoo. And to answer your question, I think webcock above nailed it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: webcock</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579831</link>
		<dc:creator>webcock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579831</guid>
		<description>Clarification: Digg-a-likes have a hard enough time reaching critical mass when they have a general focus (see also-rans reddit and mixx). Trying to gather enough content in a niche field is asking a lot. Would *you* go to that site with any frequency? I sure as hell wouldn&#039;t--it looks like a haven for SEO-obsessed jackasses and spammers and gray-hat marketers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification: Digg-a-likes have a hard enough time reaching critical mass when they have a general focus (see also-rans reddit and mixx). Trying to gather enough content in a niche field is asking a lot. Would *you* go to that site with any frequency? I sure as hell wouldn&#8217;t&#8211;it looks like a haven for SEO-obsessed jackasses and spammers and gray-hat marketers.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MikeZ</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579828</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579828</guid>
		<description>Am I missing something here? I posted to get the post&#039;s author to provide some clarification on why they think mar.com will have a difficult time building a community.

I see Charlie&#039;s comment in reply to mine, who is he calling an idiot?

Robin, who are you telling to shoo?

Frankly I&#039;ve very confused. I&#039;m trying to get insight from you guys into why you think the mar.com idea won&#039;t work.

I&#039;d never heard of the site until you posted this ... but as a business person I&#039;m always interested to learn why something will or won&#039;t work and why people think so.

So can someone with a positive attitude reply with some insight into this?

Also, some of you have mentioned that the site needs a lot of work. What do you feel should be improved?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I missing something here? I posted to get the post&#8217;s author to provide some clarification on why they think mar.com will have a difficult time building a community.</p>
<p>I see Charlie&#8217;s comment in reply to mine, who is he calling an idiot?</p>
<p>Robin, who are you telling to shoo?</p>
<p>Frankly I&#8217;ve very confused. I&#8217;m trying to get insight from you guys into why you think the mar.com idea won&#8217;t work.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d never heard of the site until you posted this &#8230; but as a business person I&#8217;m always interested to learn why something will or won&#8217;t work and why people think so.</p>
<p>So can someone with a positive attitude reply with some insight into this?</p>
<p>Also, some of you have mentioned that the site needs a lot of work. What do you feel should be improved?</p>
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		<title>By: Satan</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579817</link>
		<dc:creator>Satan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579817</guid>
		<description>Why in the world do these guys keep showing up?
They are no talent hacks and some of the biggest douches around, yet fucktards like this keep trying to push the sites they set up.

Are you getting paid to do this for him, or is he just blowing you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why in the world do these guys keep showing up?<br />
They are no talent hacks and some of the biggest douches around, yet fucktards like this keep trying to push the sites they set up.</p>
<p>Are you getting paid to do this for him, or is he just blowing you?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robin Wauters</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579801</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Wauters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579801</guid>
		<description>Yep. In fact, ignore this blog. Shoo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. In fact, ignore this blog. Shoo.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579768</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579768</guid>
		<description>Clarification: plainly put, this guy is an idiot. He seems to believe that, somehow, and because he is allowed to post negative garbage on TC, he has some sort of &quot;authority&quot; to offer his worthless &quot;opinions.&quot;
Just ignore his posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification: plainly put, this guy is an idiot. He seems to believe that, somehow, and because he is allowed to post negative garbage on TC, he has some sort of &#8220;authority&#8221; to offer his worthless &#8220;opinions.&#8221;<br />
Just ignore his posts.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: EH</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579760</link>
		<dc:creator>EH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 20:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579760</guid>
		<description>Since marcom and bizdev people are all cheerleaders and washout jocks, the lack of personality or memorability is not a handicap. It&#039;s enough that it be short and easy to spell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since marcom and bizdev people are all cheerleaders and washout jocks, the lack of personality or memorability is not a handicap. It&#8217;s enough that it be short and easy to spell.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: RodgerL</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579740</link>
		<dc:creator>RodgerL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:42:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579740</guid>
		<description>It certainly looks like its using the Pligg engine and without credit which is very lame. why something this rudimentary gets a plug on tc is beyond me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It certainly looks like its using the Pligg engine and without credit which is very lame. why something this rudimentary gets a plug on tc is beyond me.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: <fb:name linked="false" useyou="false" uid="812125647">Jeffrey A Solochek</fb:name></title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579696</link>
		<dc:creator><fb:name linked="false" useyou="false" uid="812125647">Jeffrey A Solochek</fb:name></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579696</guid>
		<description>Great domain name...What about incorporating some opensource CMS?

There are many that might help to accelerate the look you are trying to achieve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great domain name&#8230;What about incorporating some opensource CMS?</p>
<p>There are many that might help to accelerate the look you are trying to achieve.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: MikeZ</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579694</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579694</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m very interested to hear why the author of this post, Robin Wauters, thinks &quot;they’re (Mar.com is) going to have a tough time forming a strong enough community that actively engages with the content to make Mar.Com a must-visit?&quot;

I have no affiliation with this site, but the author doesn&#039;t make it clear why they believe this to be the case.

Clarification please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m very interested to hear why the author of this post, Robin Wauters, thinks &#8220;they’re (Mar.com is) going to have a tough time forming a strong enough community that actively engages with the content to make Mar.Com a must-visit?&#8221;</p>
<p>I have no affiliation with this site, but the author doesn&#8217;t make it clear why they believe this to be the case.</p>
<p>Clarification please.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robin Wauters</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579684</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Wauters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:19:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579684</guid>
		<description>See post update.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See post update.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robin Wauters</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579679</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Wauters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579679</guid>
		<description>Done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Done.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Kornblum</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/12/29/meet-marcom-the-techmeme-for-marketing-and-communication-that-isnt/comment-page-1/#comment-2579678</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Kornblum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 18:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=35359#comment-2579678</guid>
		<description>While the idea is great, the execution is not. So I agree with many of you here.

However it an be looked at like this. Somebody comes along with an idea (i.e. Yahoo) and then someone else comes along (i.e. Google) and uses the idea however they execute it perfectly.

It is a step in the right direction. Too bad for them since we (http://www.dmipartners.com/) have been doing what they are telling other marketing agencies to do for many years. Essentially it is too little too late for agencies who have not been using these types of approaches before the economical downturn. We already have it down to a science while they are only starting to get their feet wet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While the idea is great, the execution is not. So I agree with many of you here.</p>
<p>However it an be looked at like this. Somebody comes along with an idea (i.e. Yahoo) and then someone else comes along (i.e. Google) and uses the idea however they execute it perfectly.</p>
<p>It is a step in the right direction. Too bad for them since we (<a href="http://www.dmipartners.com/" rel="nofollow"></a><a href='http://www.dmipartners.com/'>http://www.dmipartners.com/</a>) have been doing what they are telling other marketing agencies to do for many years. Essentially it is too little too late for agencies who have not been using these types of approaches before the economical downturn. We already have it down to a science while they are only starting to get their feet wet.</p>
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