Earlier this afternoon MySpace scrubbed all traces of Project Playlist music widgets from the site, and users are unable to embed any further playlists. The scrub was the result of infringement notices from the major labels, all of which are in litigation with Project Playlist.
The labels, sources say, sent the same takedown notices to Facebook, which has 660,000 users with playlists from Project Playlist. But Facebook has refused to comply with those demands, our sources say.
Facebook for their part are refusing to comment, as is Project Playlist. But our music industry sources are calling Facebook’s refusal to comply “irresponsible” and saying that a lawsuit is inevitable if Facebook doesn’t remove the application and widgets.
It’s not clear Facebook is fully aware of what they’re stepping into (although the experience of Mark Zuckerberg’s friend Sean Parker, who is the founding President of Facebook and the cofounder of Napster, with labels should give them some indication). The labels aren’t screwing around, and their fury with Project Playlist, who they say have been stalling on a music licensing deal for months, is unchecked.
Expect users to give Facebook a big thumbs up for staring down the labels. My question is, how far is Facebook willing to go to protect Project Playlist? The potential litigation exposure is massive.
as the article pointed out Sean Parker should know very well – but maybe its like a symbolism thing lol. Well zuck, power to ya, but im sure in a few days they will comply, and project playlist will be left holding the toilet paper.
Does Facebook have the user loyalty to cause a user backlash against the labels? Wouldn’t it be fun to have such a standoff?
I think they could use that as a ploy, but I don’t think that users really care one way or the other when it comes down to it. It is not like people are going to stop buying tracks from their fave music artist just because Facebook has a beef with his or her lable nor will it stop people from obtaining free music for that matter.
Thanks for information
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Sue them for $15bn
facebook are idiots. there is no way the music industry loses this battle if they go to court.
Would give mike a lot more to write about…. Facebook is always slow to remove popular apps…they took forever on scrabolous… make a little stand, hold out as long as you can and then you put up your hands and say we had no choice. Thus unlike myspace which just removed the app, facebook looks good and the negative feelings get transferred to the labels…. It could be marketing genius…
every poor, broke dreamer on here loves to attack mark z but he has 120 million users, 600 000 developers he pays nothing for…and you all are calling him stupid… damm i want to be a facebook idiot
Meh…it could work. The problem is that sort of strategy would seem fairly transparent, no?
To the second part, there is no doubt that Facebook has created an amazing website. However, the business around Facebook is not proportionately amazing. Yes, 120 million users, hundreds of thousands of free developers, and yet they can still only muster 300 million in revenue? That, combined with a half a billion dollars worth of capitalization has left a bloated mass of potential in a position where they cannot exit in the foreseeable future while paying their dozens of investors a satisfactory return.
Gotta say I agree with @gebadia on this one. He may have the personality of a damp tree stump from what we’ve seen thus far, but the kid and his team are just working wonders. I think it’s a very wise move to hold back a little bit. They’re not going to sue for damages caused by delaying the removal, as long as the removal takes place. So, wait, and let other companies and developers feel like Facebook is going to stand in their corner against “the man”. Even though, in size and in wealth, they are becoming part of “the man 2.0″.
Back when google started out they didn’t have a way to make money either. However in time they found something that worked. There is such potential in Facebook beyond ads… Right now the focus is on building a strong user base. Continue to push myspace for market share in the US and worldwide.
They are slowly adding new ways to make money like the app verification program. In time they will create an app payment setup…why they don’t have amazon do this to highlight devpay is beyond me?
Maybe they create an outside Facebook adsense like interface for applications to market outside facebook on external sites?
Maybe they will build their own cloud for apps to make hosting simple. Again why they don’t have Amazon do this is beyond me. You could make hosting way easier for non-techy people who want to develop apps where they get an admin screen with trends and such that show bandwidth and costs, plus the ability to link in your developers through the Facebook username to manage the files for you app. sorry pet peeve but it is like nobody online ever considered a non-techy person would outsource to India to build an app.. Powerplants get this in that they have consoles for engineers and consoles for managers but not hosting companies..:)
Just so many different things you could do…
My question again. Isn`t it right that these open platforms should have standardized regulations to be introduced to third parties prior the implementation and deployment of any application.
Well said.
Not that one should ever outsource beyond getting to beta…
“The labels aren’t screwing around, and their fury with Project Playlist, who they say have been stalling on a music licensing deal for months, is unchecked.”
Seems like the application is up against more than they can handle. They’ll need to work out something with the labels and find a way to pay for the licensing.
This is really about MySpace responding to competition (Project Playlist is the primary competitor to MySpace Music) and Facebook propping up MySpace’s competition. This really isn’t about the labels.
Actually, imeem is the biggest competitor to myspace music, and they were blocked by myspace almost 2 years ago. Since then imeem has become legal and I think there have been enough user complaints that imeem has been unblocked.
Projectplaylist originally sprang up as a clone of imeem but they avoided letting users upload music directly to their servers. When myspace blocked imeem, projectplaylist was the big beneficiary. In countries where myspace wasn’t the dominant online social network PP failed to take off and imeem remained #1
MySpace is in LA, Project Playlist is in LA.
MySpace promotes music widgets, Project Playlist promotes music widgets.
MySpace had to buy photo bucket by force.
MySpace doesn’t want to be forced to buy project playlist.
(I am also in LA, but do not work in the social networking industry)
Congratulations, your comment went absolutely nowhere.
“The potential litigation exposure is massive”, that’s an understatement.
1745 Facebook Inbox Messages Oh My!
The question I still have is why YouTube is still filled with tons of infringing music videos and the labels haven’t sued them… collusion?
Either you were born yesterday or have just arrived here from Mars.
One of the biggest news today concerning music is from C/Net (for you Martians, it is a reputable news source) and titled “Universal Music seeing ‘tens of millions’ from YouTube”.
An excerpt:
“Rio Caraeff (a VP of Universal Music Group) declined to give specifics on Universal’s deal with YouTube, but a music industry source close to the label said Universal will likely book nearly $100 million in revenue from video streaming this year. That figure includes video-streaming money from all of the company’s partners, such as iMeem, MTV, and MySpace. The source said, however, that most of the cash comes from YouTube….”
Oh my is right Ben. Everybody wants to be TechCrunch’d. Even if their start-up is nothing more than a carbon copy of something else.
This is a Mexican Standoff, in the sense that Facebook is firmly allied with Microsoft, which is fairly straight-laced when copyright issues are concerned and which has the whole Zune music enterprise.
Facebook “stares down” record companies most probably because their lawyers told them they have a legal ground to stand on.
It is also possible that Facebook’s action has gotten Microsoft’s tacit approval.
So let’s see who squeezes the trigger first.
Proj Playlist used to be in LA but moved up to Bay Area awhile back
Facebook and Project Playlist are on the losing end of this suit. But maybe the labels should make public what deal terms they propose and then the court of public opinion can help decide. Everybody ended up knowing the deal terms for the iTunes store. Why not Project Playlist.
Will Mike get sued if I link to my playlist here?
http://view.pla....com/9354817291
No, the DMCA protects him. Sites cannot be held liable for their users comments.
I agree with the above statement… When it all boils down, Youtube has the MOST copyright infringements on the web! Sue them? I mean come on…. the CD industry is dead…. you can’t stop that… people feel they don’t “Need” to buy music….
In 3 years all these desperate major record companies will be all dead and gone.
In legal terms, Facebook are not hosting any of the “infringing” content so they have no liability here.
MySpace ban on PP was totally due to pressure from “the labels” on their own MaySpace music deal.
10 years after Napster quietly set off the slow death of the major labels, these guys never got the digital revolution memo.
Why didn’t the RIAA come up with Project Playlist? Why did they allow Steve Jobs to trick them into waiving all lawsuit rights with the iPod when they had just destroyed the Diamond Rio MP3 shine with that lawsuit.
Why do they sign kids to record deals, give them a $30,000 advance and spend $200,000 in recording and promo all to sell 500,000 units of the record, pocket $3,500,000 and then tell the artist: “Well look, your record was a flop, you only make 10 cents a record so your $50,000 in royalties against the $230,000 you owe us still have you in a $180,000 recoupable hole”… and the exec gets a $400,000 holiday bonus.
Facebook is cool, major labels wouldn’t know cool if the RIAA had headquarters in Antarctica.
Might be a little off subject, however, does anyone know the crossover population between FB and MS?
Facebook is a platform/conduit and its not hosting anythign infringing and therefore does not have to ‘remove’ the project playlist app unless it is proven in a court of law to be infringing and a judge orders its removal.
To put it in perspective it would be like demanding their server hosting company to unplug the server. Or suing microsoft becuase internet explorer was used to browse to and download a song from the internet.
Exactly.
A paralegal can see through this one.
playlist also doesn’t host music, it’s pulled from around the web. Facebook has the same potential liability that playlist does.
If Facebook has the “potential liability” in this case, then the copyright-conscious Microsoft (Facebook’s main money honey) should start to worry.
I seriously doubt Steve B. and Mark Z. are losing sleep over this.
Lawsuit threats are as common as thin blonds in the lobby of a Hollywood casting office.
The Playlist is considered an “Aggregating Agent” which I will bet the liability stops there. I think if the labels can crucify Playlist, then Facebook could be the pass-through target, but they have to legally win against Playlist first.
Not only that. It is not a download service, it is a streaming service…
Facebook is not sreaming the playlist any more than the microsoft windows your computer is running on is.
Not true anymore, Mike. Project Playlist has moved to a model where they mirror and host most of the actual song files played with their widget on the Limelight CDN. If I were the labels, and I was trying to shut PP down, I’d start by using the DMCA to induce Limelight to take down their content.
Quick question. How is this different from Simplify Media that allows me to stream songs to my computer AND my iphone that belong to my friend? Is Simplify Media looking at a lawsuit next?
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Maybe Facebook read this
http://www.tech...-its-customers/
With that much people, isn’t it hard to sue them all? It’s easier to make an example out of a few.
good article
good news,facebook is used by me
It seems that the biggest issue of this internet 2.0 generation will be copyright related. I’m not saying that Facebook is right at all, more that I think more needs to be done in this area. Just a thought, I’m not a smart guy.
Facebook is well on its way to establishing a new low standard as being totally devoid of business sense. Very low appreciation or respect of users, communities, early adopters, influencers ++
They closed, without notice, my Sinatra fan page that had 90,000 + fans w. songs that I host. no downloads allowed. details in this note:
http://www.face..._id=37979173957
I remember AOL and getting a CD in the mail every day; meaning I’m not impressed and doubt they have 1$ in net profit to date. I’m betting on google and microsoft.
I have a lot of stats on facebook user behavior in pages and groups inc. advertising, conversion, monetization — as I said I’m not impressed.
money for nothing..wait did i just copyright infringe by saying that? probably…jeez..project playlist is another “promotional” tool for recording artists and respected money sucking reps..now they are losing another way to possibly get more promotion, i can’t understand why if i have a playlist that promotes an artist..why can’t i ask them for money? how many purchases or downloads are started because of someone else having an artist/song that someone hears and likes?? should work both ways..i mean…nobody knows what i wipe my rear end with unless they ask me or i show them the package…..
Stare ‘em down and go hard FB … everybody likes a fight … I seriously don’t see anything significant happening to Facebook on this one. FB has a pretty solid team of lawyers.
In the 70’s and 80’s, HBO, Showtime, TBS, all of them were screaming because people were buying dishes and “stealing” their signals. The FCC said they had an obligation to secure their signals if they were going to use the Public airways to transport them. I know the music industry isn’t uploading their content to the private sites/directories that Project Playlist draws from, even though it’s being transported over the internet, but come on, secure your music if you don’t like it. That way I don’t have to listen to you whine… geez they’re pathetic…
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Assuming FB “needs” a music solution, acquiring an existing player whose widgets are already heavily installed on FB (like PP) and has a deal with the labels (no like PP) would be the easiest path, it would seem that by dragging their feet FB is propping up PP and giving them much needed leverage to negotiate with the labels to get those deals. If FB takes them down, PP has little value to anyone. By supporting PP, FB is I am sure also getting favorable terms for a potential acquisition of PP. Remember that the labels truly need a stake in FB music much more than FB “needs” a music app. The labels want FB to pay some cash advances but I bet would be happy for the equity. PP is simply being used a conduit of negotiations between FB and the labels. If those talks break down and the labels don’t deal, FB can save face, wash it’s hands and come out looking like a hero by supporting their developer community. PP, until they get more traffic to their own site, have no choice but to hope for a FB acquisition. The real question comes down to if the future FBmusic wants to take on the liability of a solution which allows user uploads, and thus stores and streams rich media, or would prefer a solution like PP which simply enables discovering to links to third party streams. Clearly the later is ideal but will the labels go for it? With no mechanical royalty to collect on, not sure how the labels or publishers will make off like bandits in that scenario.
Perhaps they’ll flood the market with hi-quality ISRC tagged files and PP will be designed to tabulate aggregate plays and submit reports like radio does.
Nice post
You should update Playlists’ funding to $23million. They raised a new round recently at that amount which should give them elbow room.
http://www.thes...raises-20m-what
Imeem should acquire Project Playlist to make them legitimate. The other option would be to watch Project Playlist self-implode. Either way, I agree, it’s not about the labels.
At least there is http://www.flashwidgetz.com. They are still small so I doubt they will be blocked anytime soon.
i think http://www.songarea.com is a good alternative for facebook and myspace playlists.It doesn’t host music files..