This is a guest post by Angela Benton, Founder & Publisher of Black Web 2.0, a site that covers the internet industry from an African-American perspective. It was co-written by Black Web 2.0 General Manager Markus Robinson.
The release of Blackbird, an African American focused web browser sparked quite a bit of controversy this past week. The TechCrunch post about it elicited reactions from both sides of the aisle (it has 275 comments and counting). Some argued for the value of niche audiences while others debated that the idea of a Black browser is in and of itself separatism, racist even. But catering to niche audiences online is nothing new. In fact, browsers that focus on a specific market segment isn’t all that new either. For example there’s Gloss, a women focused fashion and beauty browser created using Flock, the social media browser. But what makes the launch of Blackbird both a controversial and sensitive topic, is that it is focused towards an ethnic segment versus a special interest group. Race is still an extremely touchy subject in America, and the Internet and web are not immune to this sensitivity regardless of how open it is. But aren’t most businesses, especially web businesses, started in this “Web 2.0″ era defined by catering to a particular niche?
Really, if race-based niche sites are racist, then this inflated “Web 2.0 bubble” has played a major role in the segregation of the web overall. Many of the sites we all follow right here on TechCrunch, like Digg, Techmeme, and Mixx, were built and launched to service a niche, therefore fragmenting the web making it so we all think it’s “more personal” and “more authentic.” Remember when Global Grind was once the more authentic counterpart to Pageflakes for the hip-hop culture? Or how about the collaborative advice site for parenting Minti that was described by Mike Arrington as a “walled garden” even though he “…like(s) to see niche content sites spring up that use Web 2.0 ideas – these services will help the masses start to use and understand things like tagging, ajax, etc.”
While niche sites like the newly launched CodeBlack.com which is described as the “Black Amazon.com” will always have the debate of whether it is really needed; CodeBlack’s CEO Quincy Newell thinks otherwise:
“In general there should be something for everyone, we are living in a society where it’s okay to have something for everyone. Everyone is welcomed. The intent is to serve the need and/or perspective, not to exclude. We aren’t entering the market to be the ‘Black Amazon’ we entered to give back in the form of opportunities created for our community.”
Newell believes his service provides opportunity by giving film makers and authors without major distribution deals the ability to distribute their content to an audience who may be interested in it. A portion of the proceeds from purchases from the site also go to the United Negro College Fund Scholarship.
In the case of CodeBlack, it is less of an Amazon and more of a Netflix (or even Hulu) which, from a business perspective, is a good niche to be in. Last time I checked “Watch Instantly” in Netflix there were (count’em) 34 African-American Comedy movies available to watch instantly. A quick search on Hulu for the comedian Sommore brought back about 12 TV Clips, but how many Movie Clips? Zero. So perhaps the real argument is being positioned as the Black “Insert Mainstream website.” I am no different. My own site is often referred to as the Black “TechCrunch” by others and even by my team and I. No jab here, TC, but we aren’t. We are actually quite different. However it is a quick and easy way to help someone associate a concept they may not fully understand off the top with something that is much more familiar to them.
The point: how can we ALL move past the thought of a niche application or site being separatist? Today most of us can see past race, and I say most because racism does still exist. Brown vs The Board of Education integrated schools so we could all learn equally, together. We are a better society today because of this. What Brown vs the Board of Education did for society and integrating school systems, services like Facebook Connect, Google Friend Connect, and Open Social will do for this very fragmented web we weave now. There is no doubt that services such as these will integrate the web regardless of race, niche, special interest, or application preference.
Facebook doesn’t discriminate against non-college students. Yahoo’s Shine isn’t sexist. Christian Café doesn’t discriminate against Muslims. Gay.com doesn’t discriminate against heterosexuals and Black websites and applications aren’t racist. It’s less about race and more about people wanting to share with people more like them whether that means common interests, nationality, ethnicity, sexuality or skin color, etc. And by the way: everyone is doing it. Its the new Black.
Having worked on a lot of these projects from BET.com, to Turner Broadcasting, and having looked at a lot of the research I think there are some needs to be addressed online for the African-American community. BUT at the same time ALL the research shows that less then 20% of African-Americans actually visit a lot of these niche sites. ALL the research shows that African-Americans online lead a pretty much normal online life. Some of us might visit Greasyguide.com, Allhiphop.com, or MediaTakeOut.com, on a weekly basis. But we are on Yahoo, Amazon, and all the other sites like crazy.
While I’m all for some of these sites and I’m glad more minorities are in the tech space in a big way, I’d rather some innovation then a clone of another site. Show me the new hotness and I’ll be down for that. So I challenge everyone in the tech space to be forward thinkers and try to make products and app that are useful and that will be game changers.
Of course Mike we are not monolithic, and I don’t believe this browser attempts to make us that. But less than 20% of the people read these sites probably because they dont know they exist. It’s tough to find a niche content, especially if the majority of the world is not interested. So what this browser attempts to do is group some of this content together making it easier for people to find.
http://letmegoo...q=niche+content
Great points Mike, and I agree and think that the studies are correct. However Niche sites are just that, no one should look at them as replacements of mainstream sites or apps. They simply just add more flavor. I surely don’t expect anyone to stop reading TC for Black Web 2.0 just because it is black. I think most sites just want to add to the web experience.
Totally agree, we are all looking for gamer changers
niche markets, not segregation.
ColorLocator.com – born today
Anything for a buck eh? Go away.
Arrington should start charging you for your comment advertising.
Someday he will get it, that his spam causes people to boycott his services..if you can call them that. I always thought the email under the name was good enough..
What if someone launched a white people only browser? What sort of commentary and outlash would that receive? Probably not good.
On the other hand, who really cares if someone made a browser for the colored people of the world, more power to them. We are all the same and we all bleed the same blood, if you don’t let things bother you, then they won’t.
This new browser will receive a lot of conversation and debate on a US wide scale, thus propelling it to the forefront for African Americans, capitalizing on free viral marketing all the way along.
Simple and yet, ingenious!
Would you get over this white browser crap…. White people don’t need a browser cause most stuff is built towards the % of the market with has the money which is middle class white folk. If you have money, people have built stuff for you already.
Maybe..just maybe black people want something for them… Have you actually looked at the comments in FB groups? The moment a black person talks about race you get some over the top racist comments and then the “don’t play that race card,” which instantly devalues what that person is saying.
In the last blog about this some poster belittled the guy who did a video. I am white and it made me mad, I can’t imagine how a black person would feel seeing such racist bullshit coming from so called smart people.
No wonder some people would want services which would offer safety in like numbers.
Again every major service online is targeted to white Americans because they spend the most money online.
Mike-
Please stop using “then” when you should use the word “than”- it is really annoying to us English Majors- and it makes you sound a little dumb.
Matt-
Get over yourself and your English major. While you’re at it, go ahead and critique every other post on this blog for grammar and spelling rules – please keep the results to yourself. Your pettiness is really annoying to us engineering PhDs, and it makes you seem really small.
BUT at the same time ALL the research shows that less then 20% of African-Americans actually visit a lot of these niche sites.
…then…
So I challenge everyone in the tech space to be forward thinkers and try to make products and app that are useful and that will be game changers.
You may want to (re)visit the Pareto Principle, where the inconsistency of the above two comments might be resolved. However, it is not without irony that BET is being used as an example of what to do, given their…ahem…historically contentious relationship with the 20% you deride above.
Did you notice the ad on the homepage for a conference that happened yesterday? The ad market must really be getting bad. Screenshot at http://www.righ...usmarketing.com if they’ve fixed it already.
I voiced my opinion in the first blog on this subject and after reading the blogs, I still stand firm. It’s an inferior product as a browser and I question the search feature.
I’m also concerned about the value it adds, and to whom in the marketplace.
I spoke to Ed Young, one of the founders on Monday, and I’m currently working on another blog post on the subject.
http://blog-aro...pry-on-the-web/
No one has or will try to make a specific browser for another race because it is ridiculous.
Good luck finding a Jewish browser for the <6 million Jews in the US (an even smaller minority). Nor will you find an Asian browser. Not gonna happen.
Case in point.
A browser for African Americans!?
How about a computer for African Americans? How about a car for African Americans? How about restrooms for African Americans? How about water fountains for African Americans?
We fought segregation and now some black business people want to put us back into it. And it started with that damn BET!
African Americans are NOT a niche. We are a race.
We’re black. But that should NOT define us as individuals.
Anything that is targeted to a specific race is inherently racist.
The idea of a browser for hiphop fans is COOL. The idea of a browser for black people is RACIST.
Good day!
as asked in the original post, would a “White” web browser be considered racist?? or a white tv station? etc etc
some will argue, nbc is for whites, or similar, but what if it was actually marketed towards whites? I bet their would be an issue with it within the black community and al sharpton would make a big deal about it.
I actually agree on this
Surely in this day and age its not needed and by creating a comunity based solely on the colour of your skin is racist in some form.
I just don’t get the need really, we are all human we have the same issues.
Issues are the same, but interest are different.
Thats what niches do, cater to a certain demographics interest or likes.
If a white person walked around in baggy clothes wearing a big chain around his neck and gold teeth in his mouth, some people would say he was trying to act black. Not that black people are the only ones that can wear that type of clothing, but more black like that style then any other race.
So if you are a store selling this type of stuff you would try to appeal more towards your demographic.
How is a website any different.
Racism/segregation-is when by Law you are not allowed to do something because of the color of your skin.
If you try to download the software or go on those websites, There is no facial recognition software
only letting a certain color in
or the police will come to your house and arrest you.
“I bet their would be an issue with it within the black community ”
Actually I think there would be a problem with that amongst the ‘white community’. If I’m a part of the ‘white community’.
Yes I think this is ill conceived. You can sell the niche products and services, without promoting race delineation.
RE: “would a white _____ be considered racists?”
There is no “white culture”. Thus no need for a “White TV” or “White Web Browser”.
This is an important concept that few people get, so I’ll say it again: There is NO WHITE CULTURE.
There needs to be a public service announcement about this. I’m getting tired of this rebuttal.
A lot of blacks in America share common interests in food, music, etc. Now not ALL black people like Jazz or Hip-hop or “soul food”, but there is undeniably a common culture there that can be marketed to and served.
How about this exercise, just try to come up with a show listing for 12 hours of White TV programming. Can’t do it. (Maybe you can come up with 12 hours of shows with mostly white actors, but tell me more about the “white issues”, “white humor”, “white food”. What’s the theme of your channel?)
If you aren’t an ethnic minority, but you want your own channel, you better find a better way to identify yourself than “white”. Maybe “TV for men” (Spike TV, some others) is good enough.
Maybe you should lobby for “Italian TV” or “Jewish TV” or “Mormon TV” or “Suburban TV” or -hell- “Smalltown TV”.
Any of those are better. You could find some real common ground within those definitions, whereas being “white” really just means you have light-colored skin. And if just having white skin is important to you and enough to warrant it’s own television channel or web browser, than yup, you’re racist.
you just contradicted yourself. There is no white culture, but there is a black culture, even though not all fit into it??
I know plenty of whites that would fit into this “black culture” more than blacks, so why not just build your community around those interests instead of marketing towards a specific race?
Blackbird = interests + race
if you don’t see anything wrong with that or how it further segregates people, then I’m not sure what else to say.
Why can’t different races share a common interest?
saying there’s no white culture is f’n ridiculous. Just listen to any black comedian, and when they do there white people vs black people jokes you’ll find out what white culture is. African americans have fought against segregation for so long, and now they invite it by saying its for black people. ridiculous, things like this just continue to divide along race.
“And if just having white skin is important to you and enough to warrant it’s own television channel or web browser, than yup, you’re racist.”
Isn’t this exactly what Blackbird is doing by marketing a black browser?
To say there is no white culture is arrogant and delusionary. The entire western civilisation is white culture.
Just re-read my comment above and would like to correct it.
“The entire western civilisation is white culture.” should have read:
“The entire western civilisation was built on white culture.”
The internet should be a place for all cultures, scenes, races, nationalities, etc. to voice opinions and ideas.
Making web browsers that cater only to specific ‘cultures’, only showing what the browser vendor wants you to see is the wrong direction. Microsoft had legal actions taken out for trying the exact same thing. It’s just wrong!
I completely agree billy,
The guest author(s) attempted to connect the idea of niche markets which don’t cater to race-specific issues with niche markets that do. Apples and Oranges.
Its still racist. And being considered the “black” this or that is quite different from calling yourself publicly (and especially in the tagline of your business name) black this or that.
If there was a way to connect the idea to Africa Africans or to heritage, things that specifically promote the African nations, then there would be some leeway.
I know people that call themselves Italians even though they know nothing about Italy or Italian culture/language, its just because a distant family member was from Italy or something of the sort. To me, they aren’t Italian at all. So then, what are we talking about? Culture or race or country/continent-related heritage?
There already is a “White” web browser. It’s called, the default browser.
There already is a white tv station. It’s called regular TV.
There already is a white interest group. It’s called, the government.
etc. etc.
As the majority population, everything by default is “White.”
I agree with billyw. And it was not hard to agree. I simply thought about how I ( a black man from the Caribbean ) would feel if I heard “WWHT-televison for white people”.
Maybe things are different in the Carib, but here in the US we already have these stations. They go by the names of “CBS,” “Lifetime,” “PBS,” and so on.
I think billyw makes a good, and obvious point here, as does Mike Street.
The author I thought made a good point about what these sites bring to people with similar interests but white people (and asians…and hispanics..etc) are interested in some of the same things that black people are interested in.
I am about as white a guy as they come. To me a browser like blackbird does not fit the point the author makes. Websites that cater to a sexual or racial demographic are fine in my opinion. They see minuscule traffic in comparison to mainstream sites like facebook, myspace, amazon, etc. Its also good to be able to go toa site that does cater to an interest you have like bird watching, gun collecting, haiku writing, or whatever. The signal to noise ratio on those types of sites are low and your conversations arent lost in net clutter. Plus the content is more focused. Amen to all of that. Codeblack for example gets kudos for fitting that particular bill and the author reinforces the point with her comments about hard to find works by black comedians and authors.
A browser specific to a racial demographic is far different than Gloss or codeblack for example. Gloss catered to women’s fashion (why a browser needed to be built for such a thing is beyond me but I realize there are folks like my mom who still struggle with google to find fashion sites) but not to White Women’s fashion, or Black Women’s fashion, etc.
They certainly catered to a niche (though women’s fashion is a pretty large segment) but not one centered around race.
I think you do more to blur the lines of race when you dont work so hard to define them. A racially centric browser only redraws those lines and does nothing to blend them into the background of society.
Gloss does for your mother, what Blackbrid can do with my mother. Blackbird can help my parents, who aren’t as Google/RSS savvy help reduce the signal to nose ratio.
I am from a melting pot state, and my Jewish friends are proud of there heritage, my Italian friends are so proud of there’s too (We even have a little Italy). My southern white friends talk about there’s heritage too, but if its black centered its separatist? No it’s niche!
Markus,
I’m black and I think that the concept of a black browser promotes the idea of segregation. I appreciate that you’re trying to help but you’re confusing different things. Like I said in a comment before: A browser for hip hop fans is cool. A browser for African Americans is racist. Hip hop fans are a niche. African Americans are a race. you seem to confuse both.
“I think you do more to blur the lines of race when you dont work so hard to define them. A racially centric browser only redraws those lines and does nothing to blend them into the background of society.”
Exactly this that I commented on with the original post on Blackbird.
It has nothing to do with race. It has to do with lifestyle. If I am a fan of a certain “black” lifestyle, or an Eminem look-alike, will I feel good using Blackbird? And receiving the targetted advertising that is for sure the business model behind it? Excluding non-blacks from using it would be racist. As would be excluding black people from using something else (that would be racial segregation). But here, racism? Nah, come on…
We already have an African-Canadian school here in Toronto. No Asians or whites or Indians or Hispanics or any other race/subrace allowed.
Who the hell brings back the segregation? Who was screaming that it’s wrong?
I thought minorities were fighting against it…
Can we have a White, Yellow, Brown, and Mix Race Web 2.0 also? Why does everything have to get a color tag?
We already have an African-Canadian school here in Toronto. No Asians or whites or Indians or Hispanics or any other race/subrace allowed.
Who is bringing back the segregation? Who was screaming that it’s wrong?
I thought minorities were fighting against it…
sorry for the dupe – pls delete one
Sigh…. so we going backwards now? no matter how she put it, if we start creating things for one specific race we’ll keep segregating ourself.
Are you telling me that whatever you find using this browser cant be found using the regular version of any other browser + Google?
We’ll never going to move forward if we stop making the boundaries that divide us even bigger.
While I see the value from a marketing and content curating perspective (we have “segregated” magazines for example) I’m not sure the web should be utilized that way … you can search for your niche within almost any of the larger soc-nets or media sharing sites, create your own groups / channels, etc.
My 2 shiny pennies.
@Phil, you’re missing something when you say “… a community based solely on the colour of your skin is racist in some form…”
Being “black” is different than being “white”. As social label, “black” carries a lot more with it than just skin color.
“White” doesn’t mean as much. It really does simply mean “having white skin”.
(see my earlier comment)
This is actually the crux of the issue. I was a little afraid this implied point in Angela’s post would be lost.
Being Black in America is unique to any other culture. Most people who are white have a direct linear point to a particular culture, either Greek, Italian, Polish, Irish, etc.
The issue of self-identity is never a question.
Blacks in America have clung to the concept of Americans of African descent purely from logic and visible, reasonable speculation. If you talk to people from a country in Africa (b/c Africa is a continent, not a country…another unique aspect), they don’t ‘claim’ that Blacks in America are related to them…unless they can specify their country of origin.
Well, that is impossible with the slave trade.
So, we’re left with trying to identify and be proud of our culture as Americans.
Well, the racism of this country stripped us of that. When an American is described, they look a certain way, have a certain lifestyle, and have certain roots. Our culture, our history, even though it was bred in America, is never associated ‘as American’.
This is why you see a lot of Black sites.
It’s an issue of identity and history. We have no history, we have no identity for reasons of segregation, racism, and slavery.
Now that we try to create it, the argument is that we’re are practicing the same ideals, when in fact, it’s nothing more than sharing our culture with anyone who chooses to participate.
The onus really is Black Web 2.0 is a tech site that happens to be fun by people who are Black. Barack Obama is a president who happens to be Black. The Young Black Professional Guide is a site catered to helping young professionals who happen to be Black.
Until people who aren’t Black get over themselves and realize that distinction, the argument of ‘white’ this or ‘Asian’ that is nothing but ignorance.
I would disagree with the comment “Most people who are white have a direct linear point to a particular culture, either Greek, Italian, Polish, Irish, etc” because I have no idea where my immigrant relatives came from and I dont particularly care either other than the novelty/factiod reasons. I realize not everyone shares my apathy for that facet of my life.
Im an American now. Regardless of where my heritage lies its got nothing to do with me really. I was born here, I’ll likely die here and I embrace that aspect of my life with regard to heritage.
I know some people are fiercely proud of being Irish or Scottish or Venezuelan or whatever and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I dont think there is anything wrong with websites which cater to specific demographics. But a browser based on race seems contradictory to me with regard to racial equality and acceptance. Perhaps, since I am white, its either going to be very hard or impossible to see this from the black perspective. Probably the latter I suspect.
Anyways, I do want to thank you for giving us your perspective on the issue. I think dialogue is ultimately the only way to blur racial lines.
Jason and Fredric have it exactly right. Being black is a culture in America with unique historical roots. Therefore, something targeting that is focusing on the cultural niche, not the color of their skin.
I hope people read these comments before posting their ignorant analogies.
“Being black is a culture in America with unique historical roots.”
Being black isn’t a culture. That presupposes that you are connected to this black culture if you are black. As for unique historical roots, doesn’t every race have them?
As long as everyone commenting is gearing their comments towards different directions and using words that have specific meanings to them, this whole comment section for this article will go nowhere. We all first need to agree on some sort of pragmatic (linguistic) definitions.
Why is Black a culture? How big a hand did segregation (by the whites) have in forcing blacks to create their own culture? Without segregation historically, would their be a “black” culture? We’ll never know, but my guess is no, or at least it would be nothing near the culture that exists today.
We would all be more beautiful, feel free to be mobile within our culture as a nation, music would be more open to influence, and most of all, no one would have had to feel different because of a little or a lot of African blood running through them.
Why is Black a culture? How big a hand did segregation (by the whites) have in forcing blacks to create their own culture? Without segregation historically, would their be a “black” culture? We’ll never know, but my guess is no, or at least it would be nothing near the culture that exists today.
Are these supposed to be serious questions? Because I’m pretty sure my 14 year old nephew could answer them. Forward your email address to me and I’ll have him get back to you.
“We’ll never know…”
Ignorance.
Not all black Americans are African-American. The Blackbird browser web sites says
Black people from Africa, Australia, Latin America and the Caribbean need not apply.
Does EH actually have an opinion on the matter or just an opinion on other’s opinions? Easy to attack, hard to use your brain cell
I say let the audience decide whether niche websites like the ones discussed here are a necessity or not. The significant success of sites like GlobalGrind, blackplanet etc. is indication enough that they just might be. I think, however that there will definitely come a time when they will be considered relics of a separatist age, not unlike the panthers and Jesse Jackson. As a black software engineer and webtrepreneur though, I like to promote the applications I build on an even playing field because I feel as if I can go toe to toe with any others in my field — regardless of their ethnicity and still dominate. I embrace this challenge. My advice to other black webtrepreneurs out there, if you must develop for a niche, then consider the age we live in now. Consider that very soon there may well be no niches based on race, and build to scale with that in mind.
Amen. As I highly doubt this is an act of (purely) social commentary, but rather geared towards making a buck, let the market decide.
I’m skeptical of the concept of ‘black interests’. To me it seems a generalisation predicated on the assumptions of what ‘black’ people would enjoy – these assumptions could easily walk the tight rope between targeted content and prejudical heuristic expectations.
The counter-argument that it’s no different from other niche sites catering to parents, or feminitity or sexuality strikes me as redundant due the fact that these niche sites serve content provision for a clearly defined activity, past-time or lifestyle. Being black isn’t so tangible.
I think that if there should be any movement heighten the inclusion of African origin demographics, it should be focused on accessibility for the steadily growing African communications market to integrate them further into the wider web.
Just because you don’t see something as valid if it’s not clearly defined doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. That is, subtlety is wasted on those unable to appreciate it. One might think you have the same problems with “sports” sites.
It isn’t segregation for a website to specialize in something. Specialization isn’t anything new. It’s basic economics and it’s been around for a long time. Websites that offer content targeted at a specific group can be a great way to get to exactly what you’re looking for, and I agree with Travis and the other posts above.
But for a website to cater to an entire race is really pushing it. I wouldn’t call a whole race a niche, at least not in the sense that you’re claiming. You are saying that services catering to specific niches are great because they offer exactly what the niche is looking for. But you can’t do that for a whole race! People don’t choose the skin color they have, it isn’t a preference, and it doesn’t necessarily have any bearing on what your interests might be. You could guess and be generally correct, but this is just stereotyping.
Now while websites that cater to a specific race are rather presumptuous if you ask me, I can sort of see where they are coming from, or at least see the intended goal. But building a browser that caters to a specific race is just ridiculous! Actually, building a browser for any niche is ridiculous. You could just as easily (actually more easily) provide some sort of plug-in. Custom browsers are nothing more than a gimmick. And a custom browser for one race only seems elitist and backwards. And don’t tell me that Firefox or any other browser is “for white people.” Why is it that Blackbird is just basically Firefox with a few extra features and a stereotypical skin? A browser is geared towards no niche other than “web users”, and that’s the way it should be.
It’s segregation if it makes whitey feel bad. That’s pretty much the nutshell.
The rest of your screed is pretty shrill, since nobody has mentioned any site where you are required to prove your skin color for access.
Serving a specific segment of the population is all fine, well and good but, when you start to throw race into the mix, I tend to think it’s a slippery slope.
Honestly, I think it’s healthy to identify with a group of people that you feel a sense of “oneness” with or have a level of comfort because they share the same skin color, possibly the same experiences, etc…
Being a white guy, I have never really experienced racism – not the the extent that many black’s have. However, I can tell you I’m not a racist and I’ve always wondered why we continue to look for things that seperate us instead of what we have in common. It could be I think that based on ignorance. Or viewing life thru my own little filter. Dunno.
I would say that I think it’s probably not the best analogy to use web 2.0 properties to compare race with respect to niche markets. I think they’re not apple’s to oranges in comparison. Just my .02
I run the largest Hispanic news website – HispanicTips.com. A niche, yes (in fact my business’ name is niche new media) but while I have heard/read similar complaints I haven’t stopped for a variety of reasons.
The largest being that it is imperative that everyone in this country should be trying to learn more about this niche (as well as other niches). I am a filter designed to help. After that I think it boils down to freedom. The web allows me to do this. I have the freedom to do it. You have the freedom to either pay attention or ignore.
We are all human beings with way more variation and diversity than most can imagine and we will all find our own paths in all facets of life including online and information/news consumption.
Tomas
Nicely put Tomas
Tomas,
Your website targets a population of immigrants, that is not fully integrated into American society. You’re helping them integrate, which is a step forward.
A browser for “Blacks” is different. It promotes the idea of segregation between Blacks and the rest. It’s a technological Apartheid.
Re-define Racist in a more positive light.
A person who recognizes the difference between phenotypic or genotypic traits and celebrates it by knowing that variety is the spice of life and a phenohomogenic world would be quite boring.
Race debates here in South Africa are an everyday matter. ‘The Sowetan’ newspaper is a black focused publication, so is ‘The Daily Sun’ though both publications are white owned. A niche based on race targets a specific market which exists, its a matter of demand and supply. South Africa doesn’t have a black focused dating website and I notice blackscene.com is targeting just that…
See blackplanets.com, migente, asianavenue,com… etc.
Now see… Facebook
Anyone who is serious about making a global product, will never go the niche route. A lot of those sites are just whats HOT right now. Give it a few months and there is a newer, slicker hip hop site.. or dating site, etc.. for whatever racial group. You’ve got a myriad of bright entrepreneurs trying to capture the niche markets, splitting up the thousands who actually prefer niche sites over mainstream… all while the mainstream products march on by the millions. If you’re content with creating and only being in the niche market, cool, but you will always have limitations.
Facebook was a niche social utility. It served the college community faithfully behind it’s walled garden before the floodgates were opened to anyone with a pulse.
I agree that many of the niche community sites are one-dimensional & the sheer volume of these ‘out of the box’ startups dilute the value of their respective markets.
On the media front, I’m following MTV Iggy to see if they can gain traction by casting a wider net than their previous individual network offerings (Desi, Chi, K).
BlackPlanet and AsianAvenue have been active for a very long time…
“Anyone who is serious about making a global product, will never go the niche route. ”
That’s just stupid. “Serious” people will do whatever they want. Should local restaurants shut down because they don’t have the footprint of McDonald’s? Should TechCrunch shutdown because it’s not as big as the NY Times?
we’re talking about racial niches. nubcake.
Great points Seth, in regards to racial niches I think most are started to try to serve some need they feel is lacking “going global” for many is not in sight, atleast not at first.
While I disagree that some of these sites are “just what’s HOT right now” I do agree with your point of niches having limitations, all of them do.
I’m troubled by confusing browsers and sites. It’s one thing if I choose to gather my information from sites that may serve a particular niche, but it’s something else if the tool I use to gather my information serves a niche — how do I know I’m not missing something important?
Yes, a ’site’ is different from a ‘browser’ Something that most people here miss [?] while actually showing their racism, from both sides. –A new ‘black’ browser? so what? More power to Blackbird and I wish them success.
Sad that Angela Benton misses the point at every turn, offering all kinds of absurd comparisons… Is she really black? Not that it matters… but she is confused. Her comments are disappointing, while comparing Blackbird to what “white” sites do.
If blackbirdhome.com is racist, than is’t *black*web2.0 also?
i agree .. today facebook and orkut are one of the best and awsum ways of marketing and free…
To think that Black Web 2.0 is not reverse discrimination or elitism is foolhardy. If a group of Neo Nazis made “White Web 2.0″ so that those who are racists could feel comfortable amongst other haters then the entire internet would go nuts. This idea is not only dangerous to race relations it creates segregation. In an age of globalization why would we want to go back to the stone age.
What??? Since when are black culture and RACIST culture on equal footing?
Harry, personally I don’t think the issue here is that it’s racist. The problem is that it’s targeting demographic that may not actually exist.
@Louis, black culture doesn’t exist?
Web 2.0 in general is “White” Web 2.0.
Jake,
The number of people who participate in Web 2.0 and think “wow, this is so white – AWESOME” is equal to zero. My culture and my ethnicity have nothing to do with the technology I use. Do I pick up an iPod and say “you know, this feels really Korean to me; we really need a WHITE mp3 player?” No.
So I ask – why does the black community feel that they need “black” web 2.0 technologies? Aren’t the existing web 2.0 technologies completely race/color/neutral? How on earth do you even associate a racial identity with a piece of technology which is utterly indifferent to race?
I don’t get it.
“Do I pick up an iPod and say “you know, this feels really Korean to me; we really need a WHITE mp3 player? No””
lol
I have serious problems with Gloss too, starting with the marketing. I don’t want an adorable pink browser for women. I don’t want a black browser.
I want a browser that’s fast, renders well, has some nifty developer tools, and gets the f*ck out the way when I’m trying to handle my business online.
Browsers like Gloss and Blackbird are a step back to me because they’re tying filtered, editorial content to the browser. That’s AOL circa 1995. Walled-gardens (though this is probably more analagous to a chain-link fence) failed for a reason.
I also have a problem with such broad-based phenotype marketing generally. I’m sorry Gloss, your browser is not a browser for “women” it’s a browser for vapid chicks that can’t use Google. Ditto Blackbird. It’s not for “black people,” it’s for a specific set of black folks — and I’d tell you specifically what kind, but they don’t support Mac users.
Agreed. Niche browsers just don’t address any pain point. Content sites are a different matter, but to me this is on par with building a black PC or black TV.
I don’t have an issue with addressing niche needs, but I think everyone want a web browser that renders pages without errors, doesn’t hog memory and is stable.
“I want a browser that’s fast, renders well, has some nifty developer tools, and gets the f*ck out the way when I’m trying to handle my business online.”
Since IE still dominates, you would be in the minority. What are you, developer-ist?
Why do you give a crap if someone prefers pink or black with links to girly sites already embedded in the sidebar?
Such segregation has great importance for specific community, people love freedom and interact with their own community, nothing bad if they have their own market and workforce rather than depending elsewhere.
I think people are running out of things to cry about. Niche marketing has always been around and will always be here to stay.
I can see a logical argument from both sides, though I tend to lean more to the side that says niche sites are fine, niche browsing tools are on the verge of crossing the line.
A browser that is aimed at the black community absolutely excludes anyone that isn’t black. While I agree that there is no true “white culture”, there are most certainly areas that would be considered white over black.
If someone were to create a browser that was aimed at people who supported white supremacy it would get scorned by society and the non-white communities would be outraged. I am not saying that blackbird supports black supremacy, but both are aimed at a specific culture, so why shouldn’t both be held to same standards. They both exclude other cultures, they both address specific cultural needs, they both address cultures that exist in todays world.
Where do we draw the line?
I have sat back and read most of the comments from both posts and I think both sides have valid arguments. Being black I would follow a site like Black Web 2.0… On the other hand a black browser straddles the line. Now if they created a plugin I could use, I would be all for it. Other than that, the browser would just get in my way. Your right where do we draw the line?
I agree with the sentiment that this is useful to a certain audience, but would have been better as a plugin.
I’m black, and find that my needs are served perfectly fine by Firefox. As a marketer, the biggest difference for me with Blackbird vs. targeted website is the void issue. Blackbird doesn’t fill a particular void.
I’m likely to find news on Concrete Loop that I wouldn’t find on Perez Hilton, so that fills a void. I just bookmarked Black Web 2.0 (which I hadn’t heard of before this post) because they appear to present news I might not find on TC or Mashable. In reading one of their posts, I saw Clutch Mag, which seems to present information I might not find on the Sugar sites, so it fills a void.
To my knowledge, black people don’t browse the web any differently than any other group, so I’m not sure that this fills a void that couldn’t be addressed with a website or plugin.
This article has a couple glaring problems.
1) It makes the assumption that a site which segments its users by interest is comparable to a site that segments its users by their skin color.
2) It bizarrely tries to draw comparisons between ‘Brown v Board of Educations’ and Friend Connect, Open Social, etc…
Angela Benton, could you please take the time to write a sensible, well thought out blog post concerning this topic? Im not convinced you really understand what is happening here. If you have to literally tell us where your point begins with the words “The Point:” then you are clearly still in the draft stage.
Look, I’m a black man, and the fact is, Angela’s meandering, wishy washy argument just masks the simple fact that this is a silly racist project.
A niche by definition (and good business sense) is a group of people with similar needs. That’s what makes a product targeted at them potentially successful.
Now do people have similar needs just because they have the same skin color? That depends on what the product is. Ovbiously, if you’re selling sunscreen, there’s nothing wrong with targeting only white people, because black people don’t get sunburn.
Similarly, if you’re selling hair products for negro hair, nothing wrong with targeting black people. They have similar hair, and so similar needs.
But how in the world does the need to surf the web differ by race? Do black people surf different from white people? This is just a project launched by black people with a parochial, seperatist worldview. If you see yourself as black and want to separate yourself from white people, you’re losing out and actually perpetuating racism.
Cynically trying to label a browser as a black person’s browser is just trying to capitilase on parochial black peoples’ sense of seperation from white people, and thus actually entrenches racism.
Why not just create a good browser, period? Why not differentiate it on some dimension that makes it better at serving a real niche need. Maybe a browser for older people; or blind people; or deaf people; or children; or illiterate people; or people with no hands (voice-activated); something that fulfils a real need for a real niche.
I’m not aware that there’s anything about being black that makes a person uncomfortable using Internet Explorer or Firefox. get out of the racial box you’re keeping yourself in, and just be a human being.
Ditto.
“black people don’t get sunburn” Yes, they do: I have treated quite a few black patients with second [and deep second] degree sunburns…
Ari I think your points about the broswer are right on the money. This is precisely why the broswer itself doesn’t need a racial identity. Its just silly.
“negro hair” ?
“They have similar hair, and so similar needs.” ?
And you say you’re black?
Angela says, “Really, if race-based niche sites are racist, then this inflated “Web 2.0 bubble” has played a major role in the segregation of the web overall.”
You mean like “Black Web 2.0″ and “Blackbird”?
BINGO!
the fact that there is a website called “black 2.0″ is racist. Several decades were spent trying to establish and agree that we were all the same, why segregate now?
Because a large percentage of the population still doesn’t agree with that.
This is a joke, and claiming they’re building for a niche market is nonsense. This is simply a marketing gimmick. I bet they’re all laughing their asses off right now from all the hits they’re getting from this controversy. This is NOT a niche market product. They’re getting rich from this folks
You can’t put race-based marketing in the same category as gender-based. We appreciate the fact that men and women are different; in fact we celebrate it. But with race, the differences aren’t real, but imagined – and of the prejudicial kind. Do we want to perpetuate that?
Thank you, Sekhar. Well said
What if the intent of sites like these are simply to showcase a particular interest or perspective so that those, irregardless of skin color or cultural origin, that have an interest or are fans of could engage? for instance, after visiting http://www.codeblack.com I noted that they state that their destination is for fans of literature and films that come from an urban/african american perspective. this sentiment basically states that, whoever you are, where ever you come from, if you have an interest in this type of content you can find it here. That seems to me to be a very inclusionary paradigm. I would imagine that most sites that arise targeting a particular niche truly intend to come from this perspective. Possibly the positioning is simply incorrect or mis-interpreted?
Just a few random thoughts.
Re: Everyone getting caught up on race
The main issue that I think is problematic in the United States, the location of the target audience of things like BlackBird, is that Race and Ethnicity are inseparable for the black community and other ethnically marginalized groups. The shared history of black people in the United States, and the overall continued marginalization of the overall black community in most forms of media has created a niche market. That being said, black people are still American and for the most part, integrated with the mainstream, in as much as black people can appreciate and use main stream media and find some value.
That being said, I cannot explain how empowering and inspiring it is to see people who look like you or have a similar historical background doing stuff you can be proud of. I think that is why there are niche sites etc. Yes, all black people are all unique and different. We have different interests and we are not some monolithic group, but… we are a group that has a common history. I think it is great that slowly but surely the racial lines that have been created are dissipating. However, I still think that it is important that we (the ethnically black american community) document and archive our progress, when so much of our history has been denied to us in the past.
I’m confused. How does a browser for the black community help you document and archive your progress anymore than IE or Firefox? I am confident that someone has been documenting and archiving these things up to this point. And they have been using IE or Firefox!
I think the browser is a horrible idea lol. However, I see the usefulness for some people (and I am thinking my one grandmother who isn’t tech savvy at all… as in she calls me to ask how to turn on the computer), to find sites to see what is going on.
I was reacting more to the generalized comments that all black sites are some how racist and separatist and to everyone talking about skin color and race and disregarding the fact that black is more of an ethnic marker than a racial one for the primary target audience of these sites.
@Jade — You need to do some research regarding the meaning of “race” and “ethnicity”. Your definition is artificial…
From the American Heritage Dictionary: ‘ethnicity’ “…ethnic quality or affiliation resulting from racial or cultural ties”
Also, and I am sorry, but the fact that Barack Obama is the president-elect, does not mean that racial disparity and discrimination have left the US… it already is more insidious than it used to be.
Actually, I never provided a definition of ethnicity and I think that I have done quite a bit of research on it, thank you very much. I said they are inseparable in the US, as the definition you provided illustrated. I will be upfront and say that my academic background is in French history. In France, race and ethnicity are NOT intertwined in the same way at all, which creates a whole other set of issues that have nothing to do with this post lol.
Further, I have no idea why you are bringing Barack Obama in to my discussion. When I said “slowly but surely the racial lines that have been created are dissipating” that had nothing to do with Obama and more to do with a trend you will see if you talk to younger black folk about their views on race and racism. It’s been happening slowly but surely for a while now. I first started really noticing a difference in just the word choices that were being used to describe the black experience about 5 years ago now.
That being said, I never once denied that racism is still alive and kicking. As in a comment below, I said there is still institutional racism. And the reaction to blackbird does a wonderful job at illustration how insidious white privileged is (and before anyone freaks out about the use of that term, please google it).
I’m not sure who this Markus is, but I am disappointed that we share the same name.
I think the jist of the controversy is this:
Niche sites and portals are one thing, that’s fine. But a “race-specific” browser is an entirely different thing. A browser acts as a portal. It can also act as a lens or a filter. I would argue that is not the place of a web browser.
The great thing about the web is that everyone can access any information they want equally. What you choose to do is up to you, but the starting point is unbiased, it is an empty window.
This has happened in America. but this could happen anywhere else as every society is touchy about some issue or discriminate a minority. Like it or not and as you wrote down, the web is a reflexion of the reality so it is normal that people gather each other in function of their interests or origins.
Jade,
“That being said, I cannot explain how empowering and inspiring it is to see people who look like you or have a similar historical background doing stuff you can be proud of.”
There’s a reason for that. Segregation has taught those of color that they are lower than others. When someone lower (lets say the underdog) gets ahead in life, it is seen as a great thing, something to be proud of.
Once we all realize that racial differences aren’t real, but imagined (as Sekhar above you said), we’ll all be in a better place.
@Adam
Trust me when I say I do realize race is not real. But to tell black people to move beyond racial differences and act as though they do not exist or never did is to tell us to deny the history of our ancestors who suffered because of an imaginary classification. The history is real. There is still institutional racism, and the experience of being black in America is still different than any other ethnic group, even if the differences have become more subtle.
I do agree that at some point we will move beyond it and be in a better place, and I hope that happens by the time I have grand children. I know that my sister who is 10 years younger than me has already had a much different experience of race than I did, as will my son who is only2, and I am very grateful that there will be fewer barriers for both of them as they transition in to adulthood.
Hi Jade,
Thanks for the response.
“But to tell black people to move beyond racial differences and act as though they do not exist or never did is to tell us to deny the history of our ancestors who suffered because of an imaginary classification.”
That’s pretty much what I’m asking, to move beyond the imagined differences. To realize that they existed and to not forget about them, but to move on. A new vision for a new day and age.
To assume that the web is a “white web”, to assume that the media is “white media”, is selective observation.
Blacks compose between 10-15% of the United States population. Therefore, if black people show up about 10-15% of the time on the web, and 10-15% of the time in the media, that is fair representation.
They do show up in the mainstream at about this rate, if not a bit higher. Often in advertisements they make it quite a bit higher, and don’t try to hide it at all. You may have seen commercials that switch frames from a white family to a black family to a latino family to an asian family. This is pandering, and just because something is commonly accepted in today’s advertising world, doesn’t mean it’s not a negative element and should be changed. On the contrary, I would say most elements of modern advertising are negative.
The web is not a “white web”. If it seems more white than black to you, it’s because whites compose more of the population. There is nothing racist about that – it should be expected.
For those calling the web a white web, what percentage of websites will have to be centered around blacks before you no longer call it that? 50%?
I prefer sites that do not base themselves on race. Yes, racism still exists in 2008, of course. Skin color is a characteristic of a person’s appearance that will always be noticed. It isn’t going to go away. The question is: is now racism caused by black self-segregation now surpassing the force of racism coming from non-blacks? It’s something worth thinking about.
You will never transcend race if you continue to draw dividing lines on it. The racial climate in the United States is psychological. We can change it by changing our minds.
Making products and services centered around race reinforces a negative racial climate of exclusion and separation.
“Blacks compose between 10-15% of the United States population. Therefore, if black people show up about 10-15% of the time on the web, and 10-15% of the time in the media, that is fair representation.”
Exactly right.
Further, I am reminded of someone who said that when the movie “White Men Can’t Jump” was released, that no movie like “Black Men Can’t Swim” would ever be accepted. For some reason, it is okay to put down the “white man”, while the “black man” is protected even from parody and satire.
And for whatever it is worth, the government is now officially “Black” — whatever that means anyway.
I don’t see why there’s so much commotion over this. The web is all about segmentation and servicing niches. If a particular niche feels the need for having a product tailored towards their tastes or needs, then so be it. If it doesn’t suit you, then move along. The web is big enough for us all to play in our own sandboxes.
Adam (and Sekhar)
I really like how you phrased it, “racial differences aren’t real, but imagined”.
While it’s easy for me, a white guy who’s not had to endure blatant racism. I have experienced it but, doubtful to the degree many minorities have in this country. So, I tend to be careful that when I speak about race, I’m not speaking with the same experience that a person of color may be coming from.
Honestly, a browser for a specific demographic I honestly think crosses the line. What’s next, a specific car targeted at Asians? Or, how about a neighborhood for only latinos?
While I understand that it’s great to want to be proud of who you are – I don’t think it’s good to do so at the exclusion of others. I think we as a country are better than that. I think we as a people, are better than that.
I am in a hurry and didn’t get all my thoughts down but, I don’t want to offend. I think this is a great discussion!
I’m just stoked people are discussing this. It’s great to read so many perspectives.
My belief is that racism and fear go hand in hand. Racism exists because there is fear of the unknown or a resistance to experience, accept, or venture into something that you either don’t understand or are unwilling to understand. The lines are our own imaginary creation. There is nothing saying that we cannot venture across those lines and experience what we have historically viewed as different or as McCain would say, exotic.
What I propose is that we all take some time to experience each others unique history, existance, culture. We might find, as history shows to be the case over and over again, we have more in common than not.
What I would propose in addition is that more energy be put into eradicating REAL racisim on the web, like the neo nazi hate sites that exist in abundance or any sites that degrade, bash or threaten another race, gender, or person with an alternative lifestyle.
The web provides true freedom to all of us to be able to express our views, create opportunity, conduct business, commune and engage with constructive dialogue globally. No time in history have we had this type of platform or connectivity.
We also have to remember, that in the global community there exist interest in everything we take for granted. Like black, latino, asian, american culture, practices, perspective and points of view. So niche destinations are purposeful and in many cases inform and educate. Let’s try to be supportive of these efforts and not judge….unless, of course it is truly harmful and threatening and promotes hate. There is no room for that.
listen to the loren feldman’s video – where is the black techcrunch- i am thinking of doing the site hotrackr where the black guys can track all their bitches and charge them fees – will be profitable from first day.This is how it works – the alpha male puts a small chip in the bitches bag or car or in a key chain – like the ezsplitz(www.espilitz.com) – or something they carry on them allday. this chip communicates with the server about the location of the bitch – which shows up on a mash up of google maps.
- real talk
Could it be that the Blackbird guys are just doing a poor job of explaining exactly how there browser benefits African Americans? Does it just assume that the person making the query is black? It sounds like they are trying to make a black phone book of sorts. Which makes sense for highly targeted advertising. I hope they learn from these discussions and refine their PR push!
dumbest. idea. ever. not even worth discussing.
I had made essentially the same comments on Twitter. Customized/skinned browsers have been around forever a lot of companies even REQUIRED their “own” reskinned IE browser to be used. This is a market niche and if the producers of the browser can monetize it then SO WHAT. Nobody criticizes Guy Kawasaki for Alltop or even Google for the Chrome browser “blackbird” is the same thing (and for the record I think its a dumb tool but I wish I had thought of it first).
you cant be serious
I think this is a very interesting topic and while I wish I had the time to write more, suffice it to say that it’s human nature (read: conditioning) to look for differences amongst each other rather than similarities. That being the seminal point of all counter-productive distinctions that we make in society; I think although history is full of struggles for all groups at some point. To succumb to any adversity one must first be in acceptance of the conventions society gives us. They are optional, not mandatory.
I’m US born, Asian-American. I don’t see anyone rushing out to build an “Asianbird.” I love how all racism arguments boil down to whites and blacks. The stupidest argument thus far is: “Well, that’s because all of you asians are smart.” So we’re essentially white?
Blackbird is a stupid idea. All it does is drive traffic to websites looking to capitalize on the black community. If it’s just firefox, how does this make things easier for “grandma”?
Larry, if you do not consider yourself ‘white’ then, what are you?