The CrunchGear guys seem to cause more than their fair share of problems, and I’m always left cleaning up the mess.
Today it’s Walmart who insist that the Black Friday circular posted on CrunchGear showing a $224 Wii package be taken down.
First of all, it’s too late, it’s already everywhere. Second, Walmart claims both that the ad is copyrighted and otherwise proprietary information. But they also claim it is inaccurate, which suggests that it’s fake. I don’t see how it can be both.
Whatever the case, we’re well within our rights to post this, so we’re leaving it up. And as usual we’re posting the letter they sent us as well – see below.
And we’re also not telling them where we got it, even though they “require” that we “advise them as to how you came into possession of the information and/or materials.” Sorry Walmart, our sources are…how did they put it? Oh yeah, our sources are “confidential and proprietary information.” Of course, they could just click the link in the CrunchGear post.
It’s cute. But we in Sweden are used to reading these legal-letters-being-posted-on-the-net by thepiratebay.org
ThePirateBay FTW!
“Unfair.” Boo-Hoo.
“Therefore, we must insist … ”
“Again, we must insist … ”
“We also demand … ”
“We also require … ”
” … we advise as follows … ” Free legal advise.
“I have a good faith belief … allegedly infringing … ” I guess he’s not so sure after all.
Um… you guys are using an old Wal-Mart logo.
O no! An old logo! People will be confused!!
Suits them well! Ha!
Call in the marines.
The new logo is pretty. Its like a sun burst flower. I love it.
Someone call for the Marines? I know some! lol
Good one @Anna.
woehaaa!
I don’t think they claim the ad is innacurate in this letter. They just want you to state publicly that it is, i.e. force you to lie to your readers.
That is rather interesting, having a legal background surely help you with dealing with these types of cases. So far, you guys have won just about every case sent against you correct?
Jon
Go get ‘em. Don’t let them bully you around.
The upper management types at Wal-Mart must sit around all day trying to come up with ways to screw up.
Our local Wal-Mart was firebombed a while back, and I posted a surveillance photo of the perps on my blog that was released to the media, along with info on where to call if you recognized them…and I got a letter from Wal-Mart telling me basically the same thing.
I ignored it and have not been contacted again.
they ad is real, but the price was photoshopped:
http://www.blac...ay-ad-released/
LOL, I love how mike and crew think they are beacons of justice and freedom of speech. Nobody cares dude.
And nobody cares that you don’t care!
nobody cares that I don’t care that you don’t care that What does not care….
Not sure if you’re aware of this, but Walmart and Sams Club deal with fraudulent coupons and ads on a pretty regular basis. So much so, that when shoppers come in with bonafide manufacturer coupons, it’s often a struggle to get them accepted. So if, after further investigation, it turns out that this ad was fraudulent (and not authorized or published by Walmart) your refusal to take down will only be contributing to an existing problem.
Don’t believe me? Check out the comments on sites like http://www.kingdomfirstmom.com or http://www.thec...siblesawyer.com or http://www.couponcravings.com . This Black Friday ad debacle is not the first issue Walmart has had with this.
But, hey, you’ll get a lot of traffic, I’m sure, by keeping this up. I’m going to Twurl it now. But I would definitely do your homework and find out exactly the source of this circular because creating fraudulent coupons -especially Walmart and Sams Club – seems to be a budding cottage industry.
Oh, and full disclosure, I’m one of Walmart’s http://www.elevenmoms.com
Uh, a circular isn’t a coupon. A fraudulent one doesn’t get you discounts, it gets you told “that’s not the right price” when you complain at the checkout.
” you ‘ll get alot of traffic ” ..that is funny.
anyway whatever they do … count on us (readers) we will back you up
“But, hey, you’ll get a lot of traffic, I’m sure, by keeping this up. ”
You seem to know a “little” about the “Internets.” So why are you so retarded with this statement?
http://whois.do.../techcrunch.com Go down to “Indexed data.”
Or do you one better
http://siteanal....com/?metric=uv
I think Walmart should replace a mom.
walmart just has problems with numbers i guess… there are 19 elevenmom’s
http://instores...ity.aspx?id=102
Don’t you guys have something better to do than harass Wal-Mart? Stick with gadgets and gizmos, please.
@ceejayoz – right, I know the difference between a coupon and a circular. thanks for clarifying though. but clearly, if @bob is right, then, like the coupons that I speak of, circulars aren’t immune to the same type of activity.
If this circular was indeed confirmed to be photshopped, why is it even an issue for TechCruch to take it down anymore.
@besidethat I know, really funny, since clearly this site has no shortage of traffic.
Where was this confirmed to be Photoshopped? All I see is post just like all the rest that say its fake.
Ignore Jessica Smith she is a Wallmart troll/employee.
I think even Louis Vuitton would agree that a picture or a product can be both copyrighted and inaccurate.
Wal-Mart should be grateful… They should get to sell a couple of Wiis….
Mikes lawyer must have lots of fun…
I wrote a post on Monday about Walmart and others doing crap like this. Retailers don’t understand Black Friday, especially in a down economy. The sooner people know about the deals, the longer they have to budget and plan to get items.
Anyway, here is a link to my post: http://globalge...d-black-friday/
I love the fact that Walmart spent probably $10,000 or more in peoples time internally having a convo about this and then probably another $2,000 – $4,000 talking to lawyers and such. Way to spend that money…could have been 60+ free Wii’s….
William – the whole point here is that the price most likely in the picture that was posted at CrunchGear was wrong, and that will lead to many unhappy customers going to the stores just to find out that they have to pay more for the Wii than what Matt Burns published at CrunchGear.
What I don’t understand here that even if misters Arrington & Burns don’t care that they might be causing bad PR for Walmart, this is bad PR for CrunchGear and TechCrunch – or do you honestly think people who join Sam’s Club to get the cheap Wii will come back and thank when they are not getting it for the low price as seen in the picture?
And copying Jessica Smith here… full disclosure, I’m one of Walmart’s http://www.elevenmoms.com
Really as a consumer you can only use these ads to make a rough plan of your shopping trips early. It is understood that they are likely accurate but not as guaranteed as having the actual circular in your hand. So if you make the assumption without verifying it the night before then it is your own fault if you are fooled. The sources of these ads have no more credit than the guys perpetrating the Nigerian 411 scams or the pump and dump stock scams. The only difference is that by this time you should know those guys aren’t legit.
Yeah dude walmart blows… They filled a lawsuite against me like I don’t know 6 years ago or so … but I guess registering “Walmart-Shopping.com” and completely ripping off their template and replacing products with products from linkshare is illegal.. who would have thought
This is old news, Google around for “Black Friday” and DMCA – DMCA takedown notices are routine for hot deals sites, and this type of abuse has been occurring for at least 3 years — even when the ads are accurate.
Peter
(Moderator at http://www.bargainshare.com/)
Michael,
Thanks for standing up against this type of absurd legal BS. Every time someone gives in to these people, everyone loses. Keep up the good work my friend.
Arrington rocks =)
You must be a noobie to tech crunch and web.
Ha. Very funny. Walmart can spend thousands of dollars pursuing or realize its the internets.
Good stuff anyways.
I can see that Wal-Mart has a leg to stand on here. The DMCA is way too expansive and covers items such as yours.
And the law firm was able to bill $150-350 for the letter to you.
Probably more than that per hour.
“And the law firm was able to bill $1500-3500 for the letter to you.”
Fixed.
Hmmm…am i the only person that is going to side with Wal-Mart? To me it’s really not a legal matter…it’s just sneeky and gutter journalism and perhaps even deceptive (if the price is incorrect).
And technically, imho, the sales circular is protected under copyright law. It’s a sales document and cannot be posted without permission. Ok, I’ll be the first one to admit that Wal-Mart will probably end up benefiting even more from the added publicity. Who knows? Perhaps the folks in Bentonville are playing this up a bit? What do you think?
My bet – Wal-mart isn’t going to pursue this any further. They probably just want to get the word out as widely as possible that the price on the circular is incorrect, so they can have some (albeit shaky) standing when customers come in on the 24th and try to get a Wii for that price.
how can I join this cat fight? Whats a Wii I want one!
Walmart has paid me to tell you that their lawyer is not only reasonable but is completely correct on this issue. Please take this down, if you don’t Walmart is likely to offshore my job to Guangzhou
Oh, and full disclosure, I’m one of Walmart’s http://www.elevenmoms.com
Holy Crap! Now you have REALLY done it… you got their old logo!
Bentonville Turds shall rain down upon you.
God rest your souls.
The price evidently was incorrect. I saw it originally over at bfads.net. They now how a new pdf circular with a new price which also contains a note indicating that the 224 price was wrong.
I was shocked when I saw the 224 price in the first place, so it doesn’t seem too unlikely that it was either a mistake or a fraud. Either way, might not be a bad idea to post the updated circular in addition to the original, just so your readers have all the info available.
You would think Walmart would be happy that you are advertising FOR them! They are going to make TONS of money because people are going to plan to shop there.
Nah, you’re wrong on this one. You wouldn’t (or at least shouldn’t) break an embargo, why is this different? Besides, ads tend to go through revisions and copy images sometimes get added as place holders or as something the creative team thought was right prior to review and final decisions, so yes it could be both real and inaccurate.
I’m all for transparency. I’m glad you left the ad up AND posted the letter. Nothing like stirring the pot, I just wish I didn’t spend $300-odd on my Wii the other day!
Right on! Stick it to the man!
Another DMCA abuse! These corporate criminals have made DMCA a joke.
And yet one more way for startups to find your address and stalk your house. =P
“First of all, it’s too late, it’s already everywhere. Second, Walmart claims both that the ad is copyrighted and otherwise proprietary information. But they also claim it is inaccurate, which suggests that it’s fake. I don’t see how it can be both.”
Oh c’mon Mike – you’re an attorney, you know that they had someone draft a standard cease and desist…
You also know that the logo and name can be copyrighted and using them in an ad that they didn’t issue can be actionable.
Who cares if the ad it fraudulent or genuine – it’s the fact that it’s an ad purporting to be from Walmart that they didn’t place.
They have every right to stop people from using their name without authorization and you know it… unless it was a satirization, or an actual ad that they had place, they can demand you take it down.
But I love the feeding-frenzy you’ve created with this one. Score one for the ’say Walmart and imply they’re evil and gain traffic’ method.
Is this on Digg yet?
-GeekMommy
(yes, I’m also one of Walmart’s ElevenMoms – but this comment solely represents my own opinions and is in no way representative of Walmart or an authorized communication – everything I’ve said is solely from my own viewpoint.)
am i supposed to know what an elevenmom is? i guess i could do a search, but you people are throwing the term around like its something amazing.
I can confirm that the eleven moms is actually the elf moms – I found their real address on go daddy here ===> http://www.santaslapland.info
You will notice I captured two of the elf moms busy at work in front of a christmas tree – clearly doing Santa’s work – note: I have no proof that they are actually located in lapland but a reliable voice in my head says they are.
I shall be printing out the Wii coupon and taking it to my nearest Asda (Walmart in UK) – and demanding my Wii for £1.25 or whatever the dollar to pounds value is these days…
… An’ Gawd bless ya govenor Arrington, with the money I save I will be able to buy a turkey for christmas after all…
@ElevenMoms: Surprised noone’s mentioned yet, so let me…
NOBODY CARES that you’re one of the “elevenmoms”. What do the “elevenmoms” do anyway? Oh wait a minute… forgot… I don’t care.
Mike:
ElevenMoms comprise the total number of people you will be offering babysitting services to once TechCrunch declares bankruptcy and goes out of business.
Or is your minor league affiliate publication, Venturebeat, next?
This should work out for Walmart as well. They got little more publicity and some more guys in the queue for that wii!
Are there any lawyers out there who can clarify what the law is regarding this issue? Can I just take store circulars and post them online legally? How is this not protected by some trademark or copyright or something?
Just wondering if someone can shed some light on the legal side of this?
“Walmart claims both that the ad is copyrighted and otherwise proprietary information. But they also claim it is inaccurate, which suggests that it’s fake. I don’t see how it can be both.”
It is their ad, and it’s their right to copyright it. But it’s also inaccurate because the bundle is selling for $425, not for $224. That’s the only change. And changing that one detail doesn’t magically make it copyright-free.
I believe you’re wrong, Mr. Arrington.
Stick it to ‘em TC!
Nice, Walmart gets to pimp their elevenmoms website too…
You know elevendads.com is available. I wonder if whoever registers it will also get a “friendly” letter from Walsmart’s attorneys. Who wants to find out?
Boy you guys are tards for:
1) Listening to anything Mr. Arrogant says
2) Giving a crap about a Wii
Go crawl back into your underground lairs and grow some zits…
Geesh
Are they going after CNN too? They just posted a story.
http://money.cn...sion=2008111415
You can’t copyright facts such as a retailer’s prices, an athlete’s statistics, poll numbers, etc. Trademark infringement claims are pretty spurious too, because the publishers aren’t trying to confuse readers– it’s an actual ad for actual walmart.
It’s not an actual ad. It’s an actual ad with the price Photoshopped about $200 lower.
You can copyright facts. That’s why when someone publishes a fact like 1.2% CPI, they provide who the facts belong to. When there’s a party creating this “fact”, it is copyrighted.
the first rule of fight club dont pissed arrington off
Where there’s the will, there’s a Wii.
Certainly an interesting discussion. I am the buyer for Sam’s Club Video Games. Just wanted to take the opportunity to add a few thoughts.
It is our mission to find quality items and deliver them at great prices. If we fail to do that, folks can shop elsewhere and our reason for existence goes away.
The advertisement in question has errors. We believe that some folks will see the advertisement and be disappointed when they come to the Club. Yeah, we are a big company, but we are the victim here. If you think about it, the folks who come to the club after reading a fictional story from what should be a reputable website are also the victims. I feel for our Club Managers and Associates who will likely have to explain that some websites knowingly put out information that was not verified or given to them.
We are telling everyone we can that the ad is not entirely accurate and we did ask that the sites involved take it down. Not sure why it remains available for folks to see. You’d think these sites, dedicated to getting the scoop on deals, would also want to be sure they get things right or why would their readers keep coming back?
You are welcome to read more about this on our company blog at http://www.chec...s_watching.aspx
Feel free to leave comments there as well. When we actually share portions of the real ad with you some of it will be on checkout and here
http://www.twit...walmartspecials
Thanks for the opportunity to join in the discussion. I hope this sheds some light on what we do and why.
I think this is just more advertising for them. There is no need to send in the lawyers.
Yup, you’re such a warrior there, Mike. And this has *so* much to do with technology.
Jesus.