Developers like Frasier Speirs and Dave Winer are protesting Apple’s rejection of some iPhone applications, and saying they will no longer develop on the platform (let’s leave aside the fact that as far as I know Winer never developed for the iPhone in the first place).
The problem is that Apple rejects the applications only after they’re built and ready to roll into the app store. And recently Apple has moved beyond rejecting applications on technical grounds or simply because, in Apple’s opinion, they add no value to the community. Now Apple is explicitly rejecting applications because they are competitive with Apple applications.
So first off, I agree that it’s unacceptable for Apple to reject applications on discretionary grounds and without any “clear and unambiguous rules,” as Speirs puts it, as to what will and will not be accepted. In a happier world, developers wouldn’t waste their time building applications that can never be used by iPhone users. But none of that matters – developers will keep on building new applications even with the very real risk of rejection at the last moment hanging over their heads.
We’ve seen this all before with the Facebook platform. Facebook doesn’t block new apps from launching, but they’ve shown that they’ll compete with third party developers, give preferential treatment to revenue partners and won’t hesitate to suspend applications that that are annoying or harmful to users. Developers protested, but the apps keep on coming.
The fact is that there are more than twelve million iPhones in people’s hands today, and another 800,000 or so are likely sold each week. That is too much of an opportunity to pass up. Developers will complain, but ultimately they’ll play by whatever rules Apple demands. Even if those rules are ambiguous and subject to change regularly without notice.
I am So fast?
No big programs on Facebook {seesmic_video:{”url_thumbnail”:{”value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/gTM2PIZmyO_th1.jpg”}”title”:{”value”:”No big programs on Facebook ”}”videoUri”:{”value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/4CR0KaPQKh”}}}
Was it really necessary to reply to the first comment? You. Are. A. Douchebag.
“Programs”? Seriously? I haven’t heard that nomenclature since 1999. Also, a word processor for Facebook? Who are you?
To all those threatening to leave the iPhone development world for Symbian or HTC or the T-mobile AppStore or Verizon, or whatever — Please, go now. Don’t just threaten – make it real. Get on over there.
They desperately need developers and we who are publishing on the AppStore could use a little less competition.
Oh please, you sound like a baby. Go play with your Steve Jobs doll.
“let’s leave aside the fact that as far as I know Winer never developed for the iPhone in the first place”
How does ‘as far as I know’ become a fact? logical fallacy Mike!
Steve Jobs doll? Steve Jobs doll!! I want one! Where, where?!!
It’s sad, but true. You are probably right. Apple has become the new Microsoft but in some ways worse. This is partly why we are still sitting tight on the fence, but we’ll see, it’s kinda tempting to make the jump…
microsoft doesnt put restrictionsand charge you 30% on what you develop on their platform
this apple crap is utter nonsense
another in long line of EVIL apple moves
http://www.site...ad.php?t=571056
Microsoft don’t charge 30% on what you make. But then they don’t open up any doors for you either. Apple exposes your product to thousands of people within seconds and without any money spent on advertising. The 30% is fair enough, I would rather have 70% of something than 100% of nothing.
Apple is the son of the evil. Killing its own father to claim the crown.
because there isn’t a decent competitive option at this point to iphone and app store….apple can do what they want and will get away with it. Once android or something else is just as good, the rules will change. Til then, apple will rule.
So, around 2012 should be a good time then?
I think I’ll just wait it out. I did that back in 97-2000 as well and it worked out well for me then too – by not purchasing any dot com stocks I was able to avoid losing any money, whereas (or so I read in the press) everyone else got “pummeled”. Ditto for the housing bubble. I didn’t buy a house. Now I read in the papers that pretty much everyone is getting foreclosed, but not me! I just pay my rent. Now that (or so I read) pretty much everyone is having their appstore app rejected, I am so glad that I spent the time sitting around drinking beer and reading TechCrunch rather than writing an iPhone app!
This is why I’d rather develop for Android. Plus I rather program in Java than Objective-C!
Objective-C simply blows compared to Java … its nothing but a glorified macro pre-processor …
How do you figure that? Why do I “send” a message to an object to invoke a method when I can just simply invoke it using the [dot] operator in Java? There are so0o much more Java developers and tools out there than there are Objective-C?
wow. you two are perfect techcrunch readers. misinformed and deprecated.
@anwar what?
You are going to make a killing on Android! Good luck with that.
I know they don’t have any shipping phones yet, no appstore, and no customers, but other than that it looks really nice. Some people whine about Java, but I’ve always had exceptional experiences with java applets running in my browser, so I’m sure Java applets on phone should treat me just as well.
T-mobile (the carrier for Android) gets most of its customers because it is the cheapest network, but as long as you distribute your program for free, that cheapness should work in your favor!
Apple’s obsessive control of their ecosystem runs in that company’s DNA. It will very hard for them to win with such a philosophy.
With open-source Symbian, Android and the new Windows Mobile 7 we will have four different OSs contenting for the love of consumers, operators and developers. Questions:
1. Is the mobile space more similar to the music space where Apple/iPod controls 80% of the market?
2. Or is it more similar to the PC space where MS controls 93% of the OS market?
3. Maybe open-source (Symbian/Android ) will win?
4. Or perhaps will it be something all-together different – fragmented with multiple OSs?
I would probably stick with option (4) for now. For consumers, mobile phones are just too fashionable and personal to become me-too products like Apple or MS would like them to. And at least for the next 5-10 years, mobile operators will continue to play a crucial role making sure they grasp the majority of revenues and profits without letting any other player win.
And developers? They will continue to suffer with 4-100 different OSs in the near future.
I really agree with you. :
This the perfect illustration of the historic mistake of Apple : a strong belief in closed system. I really admire their integration know-how, but they must open their systems. They will be the first victims of that way of thinking. They put themselves in a position where they cannot miss an innovation cycle… Why do they take that risk?
With Symbian now open, Apple should be very afraid. Nokia has billions of phones out there. You’d think that pretty much every developer would want that market and not Apple’s puny 12 million… I suspect the mass migration to that open platform will start any day.
The answer is the browser when it comes to apps. Essential apps that have to be accessible everywhere. The browser will evolve into the cross platform OS that it needs to be. Specifications will arise for everything to reach pass the Host OS which will be nothing more than a glorified hypervisor in the long term.
I think its difficult to tell what will utimately add value to the iphone platform with out actually trialing the applications. A magnitude of successful web applications today are only successful because the online community deems them to be so, it is therefore wholly inadequate for Apple to attempt preemptivley select iphone applications based on their seemingly private criteria.
The team over at FilesWire.Com are working on the first GNUTELLA P2P FILE SHARING APPLICATION for the iphone.
FilesWire was the first web-based p2p file sharing client to grace the web; However wether or not their iphone offering will be approved, remains to be seen.
This the perfect illustration of the historic mistake of Apple : a strong belief in closed system. I really admire their integration know-how, but they must open their systems. They will be the first victims of that way of thinking. They put themselves in a position where they cannot miss an innovation cycle… Why do they take that risk?
This the perfect illustration of the historic mistake of Apple
What’s their stock capitalization again? Yep that’s sure a failure alright.
You people still messing with that fruit company? Google Android is the future.
imagine if microsoft had such a tight platform, firefox would have never been allowed then
Imagine if Microsoft really did do that?? They wouldn’t hear the end of it!
which brings us to the big guestion, why are apple so freaking evil and get away with it? is it that reality distortion field that mike here seems to be under??
Here are the reasons:
1) Some people hate MS more than Apple. So until Apple dethrones MS, whatever evil deeds Apple commits, it’s not too bad. It’s just illogical but unconditional hatred makes people stupid.
2) Some people are infinitely grateful of Apple for providing them with the sense of elitism, superiority and coolness they were so desparately seeking. So whatever Apple does, evil or not, these unconditional Apple zealots will support their “god” religiously.
3) Some people get paid by Apple for loving them. Similarly, some people make money “piggybacking” on Apple. So why bite the hand that feeds you?
4) Some people are simply technologically-challenged or are just too lazy to learn. The admittedly ease-of-use of Apple products allow these people in the “hi-tech world”. They are not “power users”, nor demanding users; so why the heck would they know what Apple’s doing, let alone care. They are perfectly happy with the “walled garden”. It’s almost like the North Koreans who are satisfied living in their country and think the outside is a worse mess.
I also don’t understand why Apple is allowed to do things that, if Microsoft did the same thing, people would be throwing fits. Apple is 100 times worse than Microsoft when it comes to closed systems. The iPhone is cool, but I would never develop a serious app for it.
I am hoping Google Android will do well.
Apple’s policies are an anti-competitive law suit waiting to happen.
Wondering about the same thing here.
Hey Mike, now that iPhone adoption has reached a significant percentage of the smart phone market, wouldn’t it be considered a monopoly?
There is no skype for apple because it has been preemptively blocked. Very sad to see Apple bullying developers like this.
Now, Mike, there’s nothing better than this bullying to motivate hackers to (i) jailbrake the whole thing, (ii) move on to (Open) Android.
Steve Jobs and Co. can think they own the mobile platform space forever… but the game is yet to begin.
All they own is this year’s latest and greatest headset.
But a year in tech is like a century in other industries, right?
I hope to see Skype & VOIP for Android in day #1. That could send a message to Steve and his AT&T gang.
I could not disagree more. If you do know technology, you should know that Apple has not only the latest and greatest headset but also the most powerful mobile platform, which is years ahead of most other players. Apple has literally ported MacOS X to the iPhone, offers an advanced platform for developers, an integrated, easy-to-use App Store. Just check how successful the iPhone is a mobile game console!
I believe Apple will pretty soon release an even cheaper version of the iPhone, something like a Starter Edition and virtually get a shield against cheaper new players like Android.
I am going to run right out and buy an Android phone. Oh Darn, no one has them in stock… but I hear that iPhones are often out of stock too so I’m not worried. I’ll just get on the waiting list since I really don’t have anyone to call, anyway.
Also, Android clearly has the hardware advantage since HTC can build stuff a lot cheaper than Apple. If you doubt this, just try one of their current ($600) phones. The first words you utter will be “wow, this feels cheap”.
It may be out of stock in the US (the third-world of mobile tech) but there are plenty in other countries, Japan for instance. Go out of the Apple reality distortion field and read today’s news.
Theres the apple app store; then there should be “the other app store” for all other apps that apple want to block or try to bully. theotherappstore.com for sale for a good offer.
There is: http://www.appl...-a-walkthrough/
Mike, articles like this are the reasons why Apple continue to be arrogant and able to get away with it.
Yeah, Apple had no clue this was the case — in fact, they were about to cave — until Arrington confirmed it.
Mike is being pragmatic here. No serious developer would want to miss out on this opportunity.
Like Microsoft forced IE to all its users and avoid netscape(on pure monopoly basis),similarly Apple is showing such an “MS” attitude towards app developers…but still iPhone is a gr8 product at the end and apple will do whatever it wants.(it won’t be as worse as MS was)
learn your history. ie wasn’t forced on users, and netscape wasn’t blocked. ie was added to windows, and netscape sucked so much that no one went to download it.
Though I agree that bundling IE with windows killed Netscape, I can attest to the fact that Netscape was a far better product than IE. It was IE that sucked when it came out.
Bill Gates: “Thanks, Steve!”
Steve Ballmer: “Thanks, Steve!”
Michael Dell: “Thanks, Steve!”
Google: “Thanks, Steve!”
Nokia: “Thanks, Steve!”
RIAA: “HAHAHA, Thanks, Steve!”
MPAA: “”Thanks, Steve! HEHEHE”
TECHMEME: “Go to HELL, Steve!”
Facebook didn’t have any gatekeepers vetting their apps, and look what happened there. As a Facebook developer, I wish they HAD started banning apps for being useless or annoying. The developers of quality apps wouldn’t have been lumped in with the garbage, as they are now.
Why is Apple not allowed to reject apps. I would argue that Apple could CHARGE developers to make apps and still reject them. The other option for developers is to not make any apps for Apple products! Pretty simple, no?
Thats like saying I’m going to perform in your stand up comedy club even though you have told me I can’t because I’m not funny.
ok then, by that line of thinking microsoft should not allow apps it doesnt like in windows, bye bye firefox, itunes, opera, adobe ….
I don’t believe that the way Apple is dealing with its platform is bad. Maybe it is sometimes too restrictive when it comes to apps that may compete with apple built-in software. But seriously, who would start programming a next iCal? You won’t be able to sync it nicely with your Mac or MobileMe account. So what’s the point? It should get rejected immediatley! It really does not bring you any benefit.
MS does the same with its XNA program on LIVE. You know, XBL is a closed eco-system? You know, developers are not allowed to run their online games on their own servers (except some publishers, but they are EXCEPTIONS!). And XBL is the best online system on any console to date! And its successful too!
I’d rather use a AppStore from Apple full of quality apps, than searching for decent apps on the internet for my Android or company! I would even pay for it!
I owned a Windows PDA and I hat tons of programs for it. They all sucked!!! I see a friend using his iPhone3G and launching some really cool, sometimes useless, apps and I am blown away! They work, are fast and look brilliant! Even those free apps are more appealing than my paid apps I had on my PDA!
Opening up everything is not always the best idea. It’s a good thing, and Apple does it too! Just look under the hood of your OS X! There is a fair bit of OSX which is open source.
Ultimately, it’s the eternal question of Democracy and Free Markets, isn’t it?
Are we – as technology consumers – smart enough to enjoy free choice and open competition? Or do we need a Big Brother like iTunes or Apple to monitor and decide what’s allowed or not allowed on a piece of technology we just paid $299 for?
Are we – as citizens – smart enough to choose our own leaders despite the white noise and spam of mass media (tv, blogs, newspapers)? Or do we want to live in a world where someone else decides what’s right and what’s wrong?
In that aspect, Google is rather democratic (except if you try competing with AdSense/AdWords), Microsoft was forced to be democratic (after paying billions in damages), and Apple remains the 1984-Big-Brother-like-I-Know-Best company – just like that IBM commercial they aired a decade and some ago.
Actually, the free market principles apply to Apple’s model as well, but just on a larger scale — you have a choice … do you want the iPhone with its unsurpassed technology and controlled but high-quality apps, or do you want an inferior mobile device with open-market but often inferior apps? That’s the choice you have, and so far, people seem to be opting for the iPhone. Android may change that.
Yup. It’s an important issue and will get worked out (hopefully), if not to everyone’s satisfaction. But when the SDK and App Store announcement was made, didn’t most everyone say they knew that direct competitors to Apple’s cashcow would get rejected? They were thinking Napster, Rhapsody, Zune, and Voip apps, but is it so shocking and reprehensible when its tangential competition from a smaller, independent developer? Anyway, it sucks and hopefully it works out. But rather than fretting over the 10 out of 3000 apps rejected, I wish someone would focus on getting more of the 3000 approved apps rejected. A ton deserve to be booted. Not Podcaster, but tons of others. I’m not appalled by the rejected apps, I’m appalled by the approved apps. Do a public service if you are refusing to develop, tell me which apps blow and shouldn’t be in the store.
I’m an independent developer doing Windows (since 3.1), Linux (recently), Windows Mobile (12 years) and Blackberry (4 years). I see the new platforms coming out and I’m thinking that I could manage to add a third platform to the ones I support.
I’ve work with J2ME and Symbian a little in the past. Enough to know that J2ME is too small a sandbox for the kind of stuff I like to do. Trying to support an app across the entire Symbian ecosystem is just too painful and expensive for my taste (compare that to writing a single WM binary that works on every device built since 2002).
So, that leaves iPhone and Android.
To develop iPhone apps, I need to buy a Mac, buy a device, register and pay for the privilege of being a developer, and learn a new tool (at least it is only one tool with centralized support). That’s a reasonably decent up front investment, and I’m not yet counting the forgone opportunities should I decide to spend my limited time developing for iPhone. The market is so big and centralized, that it is still quite a temptation. However, the only way to know with certainty that my app will be allowed into the app store is to develop another version of something that’s already been done. If I can’t do something unique, then I’m not going to do anything at all.
To develop for Android, all I need to do is download the SDK and the Eclipse plugin (download finished just now). Much lower barrier to entry, but right now I can only sell to those willing to make phone calls with the emulator
The plus side of this is that I could be one of the first in and, it would appear, Google isn’t going to arbitrarily shut me out of their app store. Even if it turns out to be a much smaller market, it could end up more lucrative.
So, I still haven’t decided which of the two to focus on but Apple’s actions aren’t helping make their case for my attention.
I completely agree Apple is being shady, but to compare the App Store to Android at this time is silly. Android has a user based of zero and will take at least another 12 months to be worthwhile – if ever.
Just like the Facebook vs. OpenSocial debate – OpenSocial consists of a few sub-par partners.
Anyone ever thought of simply developing for the open Web? No gatekeepers and you have mass distribution.
That is why we need the open platform to rule all the phones..
Applications useful to the community? How is the Flashlight app useful to the community?
You haven’t perused the App Store if that’s your useless app. A Flashlight app is very useful.
Flashlight does come in handy when you are caught in a dark zone with no torch.
Daniel Eran Dilger of RoughlyDrafted on ‘The Other iPhone Apps Store:’
http://www.roug...one-apps-store/
Issue resolved?
Daniel Eran Dilger of RoughlyDrafted doesn’t exactly tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth, does he? Did you actually read it?
Apple is becoming the new Microsoft. Sad. The app store has brought out the very worst in the company.
http://jeremyri...m/dear-mr-jobs/
This will backfire at Apple, its the rebound of rejection that hurts.
The difference is there are some people who prefer an omnipotent nanny (Apple) telling them what is best for them and protecting them from things that might hurt them. There are other people who prefer a free and open market which lets the people decide what they want.
Apple doesn’t operate outside the free market. You can decide not to buy the iPhone if you want. It’s just that the iPhone is superior to any other mobile device, and has better apps. It’s a competitive advantage, not a lack of competition.
I like that Apple is finally showing it’s true colors: There is a reason they got rid of the rainbow and went to gray in their logo. They are a machine.
Not so much the fun-loving, buck-the-system, friend-to-all company they seemed to be 10 years ago huh? Putting an Apple Logo Sticker on your car now means what – Anti-competitive practices and DRM?
Google, the company that everyone loves and thinks they are out to play nice (which of course they are not) could make that Apple 1984 commercial today and Apple could be the intended target. Google is on the same path as Microsoft and Apple. They all want to rule the rule and will do whatever it takes.
Once you are on top… you tend to become protective and lose sight of what got you there.
Regarding Podcaster though, I do think that a well educated guess could have been made about that App, given its bandwidth usage on possible networks, what Apple is already doing (free content could be added to iphone itunes store), and the wording of the NDA as has been published on the web. (Is it violating the NDA to discuss the wording of the NDA?) I cannot believe those developing Podcaster could have been totally unaware of the possibility. Would Qik ever make it to the legit iPhone? Probably not, because the camera as is is Long exposures, low frame rate, is simply not good for motion capture, and Apple would want a certain quality level.
Of course people would WANT to update their podcasts without a hard sync. But to expect apple not to want to protect their own apps is foolish.
Here is an example for those that want to challenge the App vet process. How about opening the bluetooth stack to accept outside GPS dongles for the 1st gen iPhone? Probably will not ever be allowed, because apple does not want Bluetooth hacks to happen by opening bluetooth connectivity past a certain narrow point.
Why don’t you whiners start your own computer company and OS? Last time I checked there was nothing stopping you. Jobs went out and started Next. Whine, whine , whine. What a bunch of wimps. Stallone wrote the screenplay for Rocky in a flea bag apartment in Hells Kitchen NY and demanded that he be cast in the lead role or he would not sell it to the studio. What happened to all of you???
So when you dislike something about the Government, you get up and run for president? When you think that gas price has gone high, you go out and drill your own gas? Retard !!!
LOL. Nice. (Such a childish comment by this Don P. guy.)
Thank again. Your arrogance annoys me. I certainly won’t be developing anything for the iPhone or Facebook.
As a token of solidarity, I refuse to by Apple iPhone Store applications for my BlackBerry.
Oh wait…
s/by/buy/g
need coffee
“We’ve seen this all before with the Facebook platform.”
But far fewer than they could have had, if it was an open platform. Facebook has never, and will never, be dominant on the internet like, say, Perl+Apache or Linux.
“The fact is that there are more than twelve million iPhones in people’s hands today, and another 800,000 or so are likely sold each week. That is too much of an opportunity to pass up.”
There’s even more Blackberries, not to mention Windows Mobile and others. If you’re building something for mobile users, the question is not “iPhone SDK, or nothing”. It’s “iPhone SDK, or normal web app”. The latter gives me a market that’s several times bigger, and no risk of Apple cutting me off. With the right CSS/JS (of which there are already many libraries), it can even look very much like an iPhone app. (You lose local storage and multitouch, but how many apps really require those?)
Yes people will still develop apps, but will they be high quality apps. Some of the planned apps for the andriod platform totally beat iphone apps in functionality already.
how can *planned* Android apps beat iPhone apps if they’re not even out there yet?
Back in the day when carriers ruled the mobile web and controlled what apps could be sold and featured (and with a similar lack of concrete rules) it definitely curbed the creation of quality apps. That same ambiguity and control is being ported to the iPhone and we should not be surprised that the results will be the same. Less quality apps, less investment, and an eventual exodus to a more open platform.
I agree Apple went a bit out of line here. But in the end, it’s all about protecting the users. Developers can whine all day long, but Apple would rather piss off developers (a few thousand), than the users (several millions).
The iPhone is still in a class by itself. If Android is near as successful then it threatens Apple’s position.
Bear in mind, Apple lost the OS battle to microsoft on this very issue. Microsoft developed a platform that allowed software makers and hardware companies to freely develop on. That gave users choices. Don’t like Intel? Go with AMD, etc…
Of course Apple is free to go this route, but competition is coming and users will ultimately go where they have the most options.
Can you explain how they are protecting the users in this specific case?
Michael, people develop for Linux and it has the smallest os market share. Your logic is fail.
@Krystalo, but way more people develop for Windows because it’s got a bigger market share. your logic IS fail.
I see a lot of talk on here about IPhone and Android as if the market leader in smart phones does not even exist!
You can build and distribute applications on Blackberry very easily with no big brother looking over your shoulder. Best part is that you can write them in Java meaning they will be a lot closer to working on Android to boot.
While the idea of the IPhone app store is nice compared to what Blackberry offers (i.e. nothing but their simple website directory) since it is an easy place for users to find and install your application, just because you put an app on there does not guarantee you distribution success. You still need to have a good application and marketing to drive adoption.
To the whiners and complaining developers about Apple’s policies. “Go to another platform, where your amazing skills will be appreciated.” Nobody will try to stop you. There’s Palm, Windows Mobile, Android, Symbian, Linux, RIM, etc. All those companies will have NO restrictions and you can develop any type of app you damn well please. You don’t need Apple and Apple doesn’t need you. Currently there are about 3,000 or so apps available at the App Store. Somehow those frustrated developers found a way to get around all of Apple’s dictator-like policies and some managed to create some very fine games and apps in a few months period. The rate of apps seems to be growing very rapidly. I’m sure when another year passes, the quantity of apps will exceed 10,000 apps. Let those people make the money by having all the apps displayed as in a nice big department store for the 40 million or so iPhone owners to download instantly.
Don’t concern yourself about that stupid control-freak Apple nonsense. You have MS Skymarket and Android Store just waiting for you to arrive. Anything is allowed to be uploaded. From porn to apps that run continuously in the background, to malicious trojan apps. All are equal and all are welcome. Nobody checks, nobody cares. It’s an app free-for-all.
I beg of you, whiners and complainers, to show Apple you are the Boss, the Man, the world’s greatest developer. Show them that they know absolutely nothing about running an App Store or serving their customers in the best way possible. You may even be able to put the App Store out of business with your one uniquely, amazing app that runs on a BlackBerry exclusively. More power to ya. If you boycott Apple and go to any other platform, you cannot possibly fail. Sorry, I’ll never get a chance to see all of your apps in action. I’m sure it’s my loss.
“Go away”, “We don’t need you”, yada yada yada. Typical Mactard ignorance, arrogance and pretentiousness.
google will kill apple…..if apple thinks microsoft is still their competitor they are mistaken…their biggest threat is google, still they keep google CEO as board member…..battle grounds are drawn on mobile space…i talked to google insiders responsible for mobile strategy…they are very very aggressive
This is how Apple works. Don’t expect any competing VOIP, competing video-streaming, competing mp3 stores, competing streaming music services, competing unlimited add supported on-demand music services, competing music of video download services, don’t expect competing DRM, even flash support would be competing with Apple’s intention of what users should do with the phone (since websites are pre-rendered by a server, flash anyways it out of the question). Don’t expect much IM to be tolerated.
Apple has certain plans for how to make money on the iPhone, don’t expect anyone else being allowed to try to make money doing the same kind of software or service.
If you want an open and free system use Android.
*If you want an open and free system use Android.*
yeah and trojan horses, worms, viruses, buggy apps. Awesome. Android will be a huge success.
Apple = users first, developers second
Google = developers first, users second
Yeah .. like the trojan horses, worms, viruses found in the most open and free systems on the desktop like Linux or BSD .. oh wait!
Linux and BSD have 0.000%1 market share
They have a significant market share in server/enterprise market. Your point was?
i’m talking about smart phones. not servers.
@MattKravis: Where are those trojan horses, worms, viruses, buggy apps for Android you speak of? Buggy iPhone, buggy iPhone apps, I see but no such things for Android.
As a present iPhone developer with a couple apps in the “store” we wanted to add our experiences and frustrations so that others can learn from it.
1) Certification process – Apple has taken the certification process to the extreme; apply to be a developer (then wait months to get approved), then apply for devices for your project, then apply for app certification and wait wait wait. Make sure you frequently call the developer program otherwise your developer app or app will just sit in the bit bucket.
2) Fees – not only do you have to pay for the developer program, but as mentioned in an earlier post you need to buy full priced testing devices (the simulator be warned supports much more of the core libraries than the actual device does). There is no developer pricing for devices and until you actually build the project for the device and install you can not be sure it will run – case in point take a look at xml parsing on the iphone sdk.
3) Undocumented Certification Expectations and checklist – This is the bane of a lot of developers. We are used to working with partners on applications, using their apis and getting certified. We have even helped some partners determine their API and public documentation including testing criteria. All have a documented set of expectations and checklists for approval. Apple is completely closed on this and we have heard everything from “creates too much carrier traffic” to “does not use iphone controls” for being denied on an application. Then we have to ask for more details so that we can “fix” the specific issues. And don’t even ask time expectations, but again a recommendation; call often on your app. It definitely appears that the squeeky wheel gets the oil with them.
4) Timing expectations – a while back when the app store first launched an email went out to all developers to get your app in before the deadline for possible inclusion in the launch of the app store. Again apple was inundated well beyond their expectations. It appears apps were handpicked as we had multiple in without any getting into the launch. In fact it was 6 weeks after the launch before we heard anything on an app. Key here is – don’t have any expectations because you will just get disappointed.
5) Continuously releasing products too early – iphone 3G bugs, missing apps in the app store, 2.0 upgrade issues, mobile me, and the list goes on. Apple – take a breather and follow a real beta testing cycle and ramp up to true expectations for support. Haven’t you gotten enough black eyes yet?
All this shows is that apple is disconnected in its support of the developers for the iphone/touch ecosystem. Having partnerships with many companies this is the worst one yet. Our feeling now is to get in, get the publicity, and first to market (which with apple can’t even be guaranteed based on when you apply) and now get out. We will be working on some new versions of our apps but will be shifting to Android. Apple definitely does not seem to appreciate the investments of time and money that software developers and organizations are putting into the apps. It really seems that apple is trying to make friends with all the big shops; ebay, you tube, etc. It amazes us how apple is falling back on the excuse as well, that this is new and thus the delays, and not enough hands to man everything. With what apple is making off the app store (30%) hire some more people.
What is the incentive for someone to spend hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars to create an app that can be denied based on the whim of a tester? If you try and call them to run by an idea you never get a call back btw. We tried that routine without any success.
Some replies here have said “stop complaining and code somewhere else”. Well that is exactly what we are doing. Off to other projects. It is a shame because we had some cool ideas for the iphone but we can’t take the risk of being denied. Let the market decide what is good and bad (isnt this why you have the rating system) and put on content ratings like the movies. There are all sorts of movies out there but the public determines which they like.
signed,
Tired of the abuse
PS
Oh and keep an eye out; We have seen reply lists like this on some other sites just disappear. We don’t know if apple has been applying pressure or not to remove them but it seems really strange that they just go offline but the article stays up. We even contacted one editor and they said they were having technical issues and did not have any other information.
This, to me, is part of why I am not a fan of Apple, despite my admiration for their technology design and innovation. I just don’t like the overt hypocrisy of a guy (Jobs) who was “anti-establishment’ and anti-”big, grey, human-less business” to now flaunt his lock on a platform he’s brilliantly created. He’s become exactly what he hated in the 70s as a liberal/hippy tech-revolutionary: an executive that arbitrarily controls resources… because he can. Unbridled Capitalism at its finest.
If MSFT did this, there would be an outcry. But with Apple’s ~20% market share in the burgeoning smartphone market, there is only contemplation. That’s fair enough in the context of the marketplace (this kind of stuff only really has repercussions if you’re a market dominator like MSFT), but it doesn’t excuse the idea of “use your power just because you can.” It not only reminds me distinctly of MSFT’s much-decried approach to winning the browser wars and Office wars in the 90s, but it reeks of Bush/Cheney American foreign policy and judicial nominee processes. In other words, just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
Again, this is not about what I think about their rules (i.e., the 30% cut Apple takes of each sale0. Conversely, this is about a lack of rules — obtuse and arbitrary policies that work solidly against software innovators — creating an unfair environment that could easily be resolved without hindering Apple’s position or power. Apple has already done a fine job maximizing their market position by imposing a 30% cut of all AppStore sales. One could argue that Apple taking 30% of the revenue is “unfair,” but that would be an opinion on a policy, not an approach. I think the 30% fee is what it is — a clear policy that is set in advance; and if you want to play the game, you know the the rules of the road. Heck, even a 90% cut would be fair in terms of the free market. Sure 90% might dry up innovation, but that’s Apple’s right to handle the AppStore however they’d like. It’s their AppStore. No matter the structure of the fees or policies, at least the rules are set and they’re unambiguous, and those who want to invest in this market know the risks going into it.
The problem here for me is that arbitrary rules make for an unsound ecosystem. This kind of structural unfairness is what caused the great political upheavals in the final years of Rome, the Catholic church, and finally, across Europe in the 19th century. I would have thought and hoped that America’s unique cultural integrity around fairness and an intentionally un-arbitrary justice system would impose itself more broadly and effectively on our broader moral philosophy. And I would have thought Apple would be an advocate of how to do business “right” — and really live up to their brand of being the pro-people, anti-corporate America evangelist.
Just like they did with MSFT, it seems like the EU (which now represents more middle-class citizens and GDP than the US ) will be the body that keeps these firms in check. The EU held MSFT accountable for their perceived abuse of their accumulated market dominance vis-a-vis the web browser, and they will also hold Apple accountable if they, too, become a dominant player.
LOL @ the faux gravitas of so many software developers. I look forward to hearing more dirges when Android is released, with its own limitations on what is allowed. Apple is not only alive, but as healthy as it has ever been.
Three of the applications rejected are a scam that encourages people to buy a useless app as a status symbol, a juvenile program that makes rude noises and Podcaster, an iTunes competitor that would burden AT&T networks with downloads of podcasts to iPhones. There were good reasons to reject all three.
Podesta, AT&T has their own issues with bandwidth and not being able to support the new needs. But this is more about not having written guidelines. If the real reason for denying the podcast program then the programmer could have easily limited the download and streaming feature to only be usable when connected to the wifi network. Simple and easy fix.
As for the “juvenile program” – be a kid every once in a while and pull my finger.
Techcrunch consists of a bunch of iPhone fanboys. No – the iPhone “platform” is ridiculous and is not “developer-friendly”. I would not want to invest time and energy building an app only to find it rejected. Myspace does exactly the same thing and that is why it has failed relative to the Facebook platform (which approves pretty much anything and everything).
There will always be the nutty population that will continue to develop – but that’s it.
Techcrunch, grow up.
That’s great. because Apple doesn’t want you.
– says another ignorant and arrogant Mactard.
Imagine if Microsoft could pick and choose which apps you install on Windows?
As an AAPL stock owner, I am not looking forward to the lawsuits against them.
Hey this is why we are fighting for net neutrality – we are staring the worst example to date right in the face.
Apple has created its own walled garden where it will decide ambiguously who gets to put applications on its iphone and who doesn’t – lets sue them and make this a trail balloon for net nuetrality.
I have been working on an iPhone app for 2 months, its a steep learning curve as I have never programmed for Mac – I also needed to buy a $600 Mac Mini and pay $100 to develop the app.
I suspect I have about 80 hours left – if Apple rejects my app, I will be out $700 and 10 weeks of uncompensated work ( for me this is about $18k).
Not appealing.
Michael,
They’ll keep developing for Apple until someone comes out with a web tablet or a smaller version that’s open (hint hint). I’m waiting on getting the web tablet for $2/300 or even $350-$400.
A $200 or $300 hand held would compete very nicely with the iTouch.
Filtering to Increase quality is excelent, banning POTENTIAL competitors is unacceltable.
If these are the rules of the game I have the impression that we will see new kinds of iphone hacking.
Marco