Ning, the build-your-own social network platform, has removed all widgets created by popular premium developer WidgetLaboratory. The news has come without warning and is being met with outrage by a number of users who have spent hundreds of dollars on the widgets to build up their social networks. WidgetLaboratory sells its widgets for around $30 a month, and has managed to become the most popular widget creator on Ning’s platform.
WidgetLaboratory has posted a notice to its site explaining that it has received no explanation from Ning, and speculates that the shutdown is a result of anti-competitive behavior rather than a breach of the ToS - it’s possible that Ning saw that the company was making a sizable amount of revnue, and was worried that it might make a grab at its users. The site has also posted a form asking users how much they’ve spent on their widgets so they can be properly compensated (apparently through a lawsuit).
Update: We’ve been digging into the story and it appears there’s another side to this. We’re hearing that WidgetLaboratory may have been displaying a pattern of questionable behavior and that they were given “ample warning” and a chance to correct their actions. Ning isn’t commenting on the situation, so the full story may not ever be fully understood.
Here’s an excerpt of WL’s statement (the emphasis is mine):
As of this morning, August 22, 2008, we learned from our customers that Ning had unilaterally removed Widgetlaboratory.com and all of its products. We have received no formal notice or explanation at this time. We have not violated any Terms of Service, nor have we violated any published “guidelines” from Ning.
This action by Ning was completely without any notice, was without any merit, and in our opinion was done for the sole purpose of eliminating a company that had started to provide a useful and valuable service to all of you. We have a full and complete documentation of our relationship with Ning from the very first moment that we contacted them in November of 2007 and met with them subsequently to get their blessing for creating our company and products. The facts and details contained therein will substantiate our claims regarding Ning’s actions.
We have achieved a level of market penetration into the Ning community that has made WidgetLaboratory a somewhat “essential” resource for add-ons and widgets. Based upon the personal phone calls and correspondence from the entire Ning team, including their entire Executive staff, it would appear that they decided to elminate WidgetLaboratory for anti-competitive purposes alone. This is truly ironic to us, given the fact that our products have demonstrably INCREASED the popularity of Ning and caused more customers of Ning to purchase their Premium Services. This was truly a win-win-win relationship between Ning, WidgetLaboratory, and all of you.
Ning has responded by explaining that WidgetLaboratory has violated the social network’s Terms of Service, but says it won’t be providing any more additional details to the public.
This morning we removed WidgetLaboratory, a third party application developer, from the Ning Platform for violating Ning’s Terms of Service. WidgetLaboratory provided independently developed applications that could be added to a social network on the Ning Platform by a Network Creator. While we try to be as transparent as possible, it’s our long standing policy not to comment on specific cases where we remove networks or third party developers from the Ning Platform so we will not be providing any additional details publicly.
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That’s ridiculous that they did it without notice. WL wasn’t just some random company, if they had actually talked and worked with Ning to develop their product. This makes Ning look really bad. Not that they ever looked that good in my eyes, but whatever.
email ceo@ning.com to tell them how you really feel
wow, this is pathetic. Does anybody else think it’s ridiculous that Ning is hiding behind self-imposed bureaucracy as an excuse for not saying what happened? and who writes the ning commentary where every sentence is a contradiction?
e.g. “While we try to be as transparent as possible, it’s our long standing policy not to comment on specific cases where we remove networks or third party developers from the Ning Platform so we will not be providing any additional details publicly.”
that’s trying to be as transparent as possible? TRY HARDER!
@gilltots:
You know how much $ they have? They have to be very careful. The guy from WL said that they were on the phone last night with the Ning VP of Eng, I’m sure that was discussed. The question is, what was said and did someone record it? Ning has lots to lose, they have to be careful.
Wouldn’t it be funny if they were harvesting user email addresses and spamming them?
dirty tricks abound on the net
Nings app platform sucks compared to myspaces anyway. They made it such a pain to develop for
That’s why you don’t develop on a third party platform. Their code, their servers, their control. Ning sucks.
I agree with this completely. There is now ZERO incentive to program for Ning. Even if these guys had violated some TOS, this is not the way to handle it. Boycott Ning.
One more reason for me to not use/like Ning.
Main reason? They aren’t open source (Show me a download-able version that I can install on my own server and I’ll change my mind).
Heh, to me this reads like a GREAT REASON TO USE NING! They actually care about consumers when some crappy company tries to cam them!
have you used their tools?
I have, they are great! And they always responded to my questions, even when I was being stupid.
Whatever the fight, this fight was not mine. But they broke my site, destoryed my data, without even a warning!
class act
Hey, “Dave”, do you work for Ning or something? On their forums and other places, I keep seeing posts by people like “Dave” who are either unusually supportive of Ning or unusually attacking Widget Labs. I also see people posting complaining that after they made complaints on the Ning blog they were banned - is this the Ning PR team or something? Shut us all up and bring out the cheerleaders?
I have a Ning network and I bought and used Widget Labs apps and they were great, especially MediaNow, which I spent about a MONTH using to build my site and which has been wiped out by Ning in an instant. I was using a Widget Labs product to run paid ads on my site, had just got them up and now they’re gone - wiped out by Ning, minutes after I called one guy to tell him his ad was up.
Ning has given us no explanation at all. Widget Labs says that they had no notice they were being dumped and found out from their customers and when they couldn’t get into their own Ning site. I don’t know whether that’s true or not but at least they are talking to us and Ning isn’t.
From this end, it looks like Ning wiped out half the content on my pages, wasted hundreds of dollars of my money by preventing me from using tools I paid for and they’re basically telling me to f*ck off.
Why should I EVER trust my data or my people to Ning again.
@Tim F. i was thinking the same thing.. the would be a little bit funny… but ehh it is a dog eat dog internet so that might just very well happen
Is their an alternative where I can move my site because Ning screwed me by doing this. That just lets me know that I really dont own my own network regardless of the premium dollars I pay Ning!
This is a possible outcome when you plan to build a bridge and the pillars are leased out to a third party !! But again TOS are very tricky…
Few days back I guess it was one slide app that was taken off by fb, now you can play by the book but, if you are kicked out can you fight a legal battle? they can say the frying pan is mine I will decide what need to be cooked.
This makes Ning look like a Company who are both arrogant and enjoy censorship.
Censorship?
About what? Tibet? Dafur? Georgia? NSA? Google’s expensive kindergarden? Eric Schmidt’s extra-marital affairs?
ya, this has nothing to do with censorship. this is just about platform control. duhhh
they are having facebook strategy
use a company then ditch them
and then blame violation tos
I’ll give Ning benefit of doubt for the next 24 hours, but this is not a good way to handle a relationship. Hey I get the money, competition and stealing customers deal which is why I believe we should move to a equity investment for employees, and partners.
However, I have been a fan of the platform and await a better description for its customers.
Are you guys kidding me..Ning you better be coming out with these WL features by tomorrow. Even if they didn’t abide by your TOS WL gave Ning a new and fresh face their products are fantastic. Oh and this better not be for money and i hope that this didn’t spring up because it might have been WL reason why you had a premature down time this week. Pls work this out WL is a big part of Ning whether you know it or not.
Um. Totally agree. Stupid move to pull the plug without offering similar apps elsewhere. Hello, chat/ IM on a social network! Pretty essential in the highly connected/ “want it now” world we live in.
Ning — cool while it lasted I guess. Sorry, investors!! I guess you’re out $104M because someone at Ning is a jerk.
Anyone know some good Ning alternatives? Whoever posts their link first gets all of Ning’s users free.
Seriously.
http://www.socialgo.com is an alternative that claims they can import users.
I recommend Elgg (http://www.elgg.org). The software is open source, and version 1.0 released earlier this week. I must say that the GUI is not as friendly as Ning’s, but then again, it does not try and force the user to register through Ning’s own database, OpenID is included, and I get to brand completely my way, without nagging reminders from Ning.
I am not angry at Ning for what they did today, but that is probably because I have a soft spot for Marc Andreessen
Wow, normally we only get used TechCrunch T-shirts here!
What can I do with the users? Slave labor?
Hi,
you could try out mixxt. It’s a German startup, adds a few features ning does not have (e.g. wiki & more), but is not as sophisticated as ning yet. It’s available in English, German, Turkish and Polish. We don’t have the amount of funding ning has acquired, but we are getting along fine. It supports much more white labeling, if you send us an email.
And we gladly answer any emails. I hope you enjoy using mixxt!
Best wishes from rainy Hamburg,
Oliver
(disclosure: I work for mixxt)
I’m glad you decided to feature this story. The actions of Ning have had a dramatic impact on my website and many other websites which use WidgetLab plug-ins and apps. It’s upsetting that Ning would take brisk action without offering an alternate and comparable range of services.
It makes me worry about the stability of the Ning platform. Will they one day decide that they want to just do away with my social network, without explanation? Maybe. I hope not.
NSFW link above!
As Ning creator myself (fortunately without widgetlabs) this still is somewhat alarming. Granted the big guy always gets blamed before the little guy. Also litigation sometimes forces a closed hand that would like to be open, but it still implies guilt especially in the open world.
My only hope is for some kind of a peaceful resolution good for both parties. I think I remember MySpace blocked Photobucket at one time causing an uproar, but then just bought them instead of litigation. Could go either way I guess, but both services seem to be of great value to the communities they support.
Agreed, sis. I’m pretty upset about them removing these widgets without warning. What’s worse is the complete lack of response they are giving. This is a PR disaster for them and they are letting it spin out of control.
For sure. They need to respond with a *credible* answer and fast.
damn!!! i’ve add a post on this already but i really just cant believe…how can you do this with no notice to us NC’s probably someone forgot to press send or enter. before they left their desk…Ning must have known that they would be doing this for some time now..No notice guys come on…i had great respect for your prompt replys and updates but this set you back big time..WL is one of the largest networks on ning that people depend on and you must have known this…….. damn!!!
Its a pity they can’t say or wont say why. Maybe it turns out they are actually doing everyone a favor? Either way communication is key, and the lack of it isn’t good for anyone.
Well now we know why Andreessen forecasted a nuclear winter: he planned to launch the missles! lol
“We raised the money to enable us to keep scaling given our accelerating growth (over 230,000 networks on Ning now, growing at over 1,000 per day) and to make sure we have plenty of firepower to survive the oncoming nuclear winter.”
This is precisely why I never used WL even though they had some very attractive apps. It was just too risky. Glad I listened to my gut.
I have to agree with Jennifer on this one. Some of those apps are attractive but my gut told me to find another solution. This time my gut saved my ass from investing hundreds on stuff I can probably find free if you look for it online.
I hear that…
wow. while we don’t use any WL widgets on our Ning network, we have spent a lot of time and money developing a pretty cutting-edge site on their platform, especially on custom functionality. obviously i can’t speak to the WL violation of ToS, but the implications of doing ANYTHING special to the base Ning system is now quite frightening. we chose Ning initially not only because of how their platform functioned, but also because of their support - and even promotion - of third-party widget developers. this is a strange situation that requires a lot more transparency with their customers.
perhaps all developers should be working with Drupal or WordPress more closely to get their social network modules/widgets completed quickly so we can host our own networks, and know that the general community at large supports the effort.
gee whiz.
I know. Scary situation.
If I was a home builder and I had a certain contract with a air conditioning company and that air condition company did not meet my expectations and I got rid of them, Would I go to all the homes I built and rip out all the AC’s that were put in for the homeowners and then have no comment?……..
Best…metaphor…evar!
I don’t know about the “no comment” part but, if the ACs were emitting poison and/or were being used to spy on inhabitants of those homes, etc., you might just be compelled to rip out all those ACs.
But, like any of the others here who’ve developed sites on Ning, your example makes me wanna go, “hmmmm” why *DID* Ning kick WL off without notifying users??? Such as, “Dear Ning Developer, due to blank, blank, blank, you may notice an interruption in part of your service…”
You would if they kept catching the houses on fire now wouldn’t you
I guess it’s up to KickApps to carry the free market of Social networking with great widgets. I run my website off of KA and haven’t had any problems. Not to mention there incredible Widget Studio. It’s worth a look for anyone at a loss.
Will most definitely take a look at KA.
Yea, I was on the edge between KA and Ning when making my community, once I saw some of the corporate sites they made and the possibilities of the widgets I went with KA.
fuk you ning.
I will never recommend them to anyone ever agan.
their CEO is a money hungry lady.
I wish i never used ning.. now she/they got me by the balls.
Say it with me, everyone: “Tortuous Interference with a Contract”.
Ning had better have PROOF of a violation of TOS, as public policy dictates that they are effectively a party to WL’s sale of products and services to their users. Allowing (and in some cases promoting) the sale of those services means that they consent implicitly to the contractual relationship between their users and WL.
Please be advised that I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV.
This is a very unprofessional thing to do. If your going to give Widget Laboratory the boot at least tell them so they can notify their customers, because their customers are your customers NING!
I can’t believe you guys get funding with the type of logic that will cause you to make a decision like this. For your sake you had better make ammends because I for one am a premium user of NING and I am definitley taking my social network elsewhere and spreading the word for everyone to do the same if this is not resolved.
Unbelievable!
Shawn OConnor
http://www.purebrednetwork.com
The state of Ning without Widgetlaboratory
I still like to (and will) use Ning as a platform to create and run niche social networks - something Facebook just does not provide. In this light Ning is still the best platform there is. Especially because you DO own the created content and can get it off the network with some script magic. Are you allowed to do this with Facebook?
Some important features are missing though and exactly those Widgetlaboratory was providing to networks creators in a very slick and effective way.
Widgetlaboratory tools have been VERY successful with our members. They loved to use “Who’s Online”, “Instant Message”, “Chat”, “Happy Birthday”, “My Recent Visitors”, “Date Bate”, “Member Map”, “Last Visit” - and most important “Advance Member Search”.
This last widget was solving one of the biggest complaints you can have with the functionality of Ning. You cannot search for all definded profile questions. There is just a general search field that brings up any occurence for the search term. You cannot limit the search to member profiles for instance. No search for City, Age or Preferences - nothing!
This is what I really will miss - all other functions where nice (to have) but not “really” necessary to run a sucessful niche network. You can script Advanced Member Search yourself - thats possible yes - but its a bit beyond the capability of the average joe Network creator.
You even can get the source code and change a LOT via PHP yourself. You cannot run a Ning network on your own server - no - but you CAN do a lot with your own scripting with decentralized code. But the huge drawback - decentralized just says it: You will not automatically benefit from changes Ning does with its own code base. You have to tweak and re-code big time. Not really a good solution that can be recommended.
All in all - niche networks on Ning will still thrive and grow. Members and network creators will miss Widgetlaboratory features. Let’s see how this incident will develop.
It’s unpleasant and irritating but it’s not the end of the world. The long tail of (micro) niche social networks will grow and grow and grow.
Aren’t Nint networks the new yahoogroups, the new forums, the new blogs (with social functions)? Some people still don’t get how powerful their system will be in the next years.
fom - fit older men
funny how you mention yahoogroups I was just telling someone how similar meetup.com looked to them… LOL
Something tells me Ning will make all WL apps and have them available for FREE in less than 90days
That’s why I would never outsource my platform to someone else.
One of the wonderful things that widget labs did was donate to our cause. So we could help our members with some more applications. It was a wonderful and generous gift. So that we could cross share some pecs in much easier way. Or add a custom made coloring page. That I was creating myself. I am sad to see them go. WIth the footer application we were able to post links to grants for autism therapy. Which is something we all need.
Much thanks to the lab we were able to do that. Not to mention everyone loved the instant messenger chat, and the smiley’s
I pray the lab will be back up.
Very poorly handled by Ning generating huge amount of bad PR. Clearly they knew large numbers were using WL so it shows huge contempt for their customers to suddenly cut them off without warning or explanation. WL added huge value to the Ning service so very strange for them to cut their own arm off. I pay 160 dollars per month to Ning which they will lose if I can’t replace the functionality of WL widgets. Not much on its own but if there are thousands of disgruntled customers like me it must be bad for business.
That little sign off statement by Ning, “we will not be giving any more details”. Period. Wow, that’s chutzpah.
Where do they get the nerve? He (wonderboy) has let not only success, but guruhood go to his head.
Own the Bar {seesmic_video:{”url_thumbnail”:{”value”:”http://t.seesmic.com/thumbnail/FhvvAgIq2D_th1.jpg”}”title”:{”value”:”Own the Bar ”}”videoUri”:{”value”:”http://www.seesmic.com/video/eZCjlY81RL”}}}
Thank you Captain Obvious.
Now settle down, this wasn’t a real company, they just “sold popcorn at the game”
Their website is a blogspot blog, and their “founders” use aliases for email (eg. evilgenius).
Fucking LOL. What a bunch of whiners these porn-social-network people are.
“Whiners”? Piss off, o’ Arrogant One! I got F*CKED by this and I’m a small biz single parent with kids! I plugged my tiny little bit o’ $ and my incredibly short and valuable time and ning’s response is tough shit, essentially. It wasn’t “popcorn at the game” they sold, dipwad, it’s more like gasoline to get there, a seat to sit in and eyes and ears to watch it with. If you’re just running your little Auntie Em’s knitting circle .ning.com, you’re not too hurt. If you had paid ads on there through a Widget Labs app, you were.
I’d love to run my own site and host it myself but I don’t have the wherewithal to do so. Wish I did.
And I posted some not positive remarks on the blog and they pulled them and threatened to ban me, which other people have complained of also.
Way to go, Ning, behaving like a bunch of pigs!
there is no need to make a comment to you bcos your comments speak about your character ..
“porn-social-network people” LOL
Yep sites where guys get of on girls who are really probably dudes. I could never figure out why Ning allowed these sites in the first place.
If you ask me I think there throwing stones in glass house.
Which of these “amazing tools” do you consider “gasoline”:
-Animated Video Menu Display
-Automated Slideshow production for Ning Networks
-Emoticons
-multimedia Flash Cards
-WidgetLaboratory Admin Dashboard
-Member Visit Indicator
-The First Instant Messenger for Ning Networks
?????????? PFFFT!
Hey Maude STFU! TOTAL WHINER. Ning is a joke and so are you if that is how you support your kid. Go get a real job like the rest of the grownups. It’s shame they allow folks like you to reproduce at all.
If I were to guess who the “pigs” were in this case was, I would guess you were one of them.
Ning has a secret. Mark and Gina both know it and sooner or later, it will come to light. Lots of sketchy behavior going on with investors cash!
Please tell us more! I love unproven accusations.
Dear Evil G and Mad Scientist…. i am like totally shocked about this… and now i dont know what to do… you guys really boosted my ning and i loved it BECAUSE of your widgets, now its back to its plain old boring standard system again.
I suggest WL developes a similar network, while you guys have the expertise and knowhow and i suggest that when you make your own networking system you can add all your widgets and add ons in the mange section where we can purchase them directly from you and not from NING…
Really guys, i wish you all the luck, keep us posted, put me on some mailing list, i am fully supportive to you…. i wish you make a ning like service but then better…. maybe this is the start for something completely new and make an even better system, with all your stuff built in the mage tools… so we can grab them when we need them….
Keep us posted….
Love to all of you,
Zohra
Hey..
There is a Huge CyberWar going on @ 1938Media.. You might want to get the Gillmore Gang Together on this one!!
What? Where? On Loren’s blog? Everything looks fine to me…
Anyone know how to get in touch with Spencer Norton?
Anyone know how to get in touch with Spencer Forman?
evilgenius@widgetlaboratory.com
This is why you never depend on someone else’s platform. Frankly, you become their “bitch”.
Imagine Facebook shutting down Rock You and Slide widgets tomorrow - their valuation would go from $500M to donut!
wanna try hyperweek, a new group platform ? We could have some widgets capacities. check this with this password :hyperbeta+098
HyperWeek is an innovative platform designed for Internet editors and readers to share articles and other works across the web. It allows authors to style, brand and promote their online group with magazine-style cover pages and multiple visual and functional possibilities.
Ning is not their only option, they can do the same with Grou.ps as well.
As a developer who has always feared losing his job to automation, this is great news!
OK,
This whole situation needs some perspective. Ning remains to be the leader in this space alowing people to create their own social networks with a feature list and a pricing structure ranging from free to very little lol.
What we have in the other corner are WL customers who enjoy their widgets and had them taken away abruptly when they have paid dollars and cents and their own members have grown accustomed to them. The impact both financial and in terms of their networks functionality and appeal is negative.
Now, a lot of negative comments are being banded about but the real questions here are does Ning have the right to remove a network/ 3rd party widget unilaterally without consulting every network on Ning? Yes. Secondly, is Ning responsible for the relationship between WL and it’s clients even if they are seemingly popular? No. Ning has the best part of 200,000 networks, yet if every sigle WL member complained this would still only account for a fraction of that number. Not everybody on Ning uses WL infact the forum has been used by I would estimate a maximum of 50-70 network creators. This is a heated subject but needs to have two feet firmly on the ground.
Ning in my experience have been fair and indeed if you are looking for a company that listens to, and is as responsive as Ning is on their forum, then please let me know because I don’t know of one.
We develop our flash phone for Ning and the other major social networks and have a been with Ning before many of the current NCs came onboard and before WL even made their first widget. I do not forecast a mass exodus or a suicide in Palo Alto.
The platform belongs to Ning who are running a business as are may of the people affected by Ning’s decision. But ask yourself a question. Do you consult every member of your networks when you make a major decision? Are all your decsions always met with 100% approval by your members?
I am not party to Ning’s decision, but I am guessing that Gina and Marc have a firm grip on this situation.
It is not the warm cuddly chat that most network creators want to hear right now but I hope I have given a balanced appraisal of the situation.
David
JOOQFONE
While we try to be as transparent as possible, it’s our long standing policy not to comment on specific cases where we remove networks or third party developers from the Ning Platform so we will not be providing any additional details publicly.
They also have the right to implement bad policies. The users also have a right to criticize those policies.
But that’s great you haven’t been bitten by any policies you consider to be bad ones. Let’s hope it stays that way, eh?
Im a generally satisfied user of ning, and id like to respond to this one…
ok, yes, ning loves to throw out the “200,000 networks” figure. But look around on ning.com. 19/20 networks are empty. 1 or 2 users, no real content. of the remaining 1/20, most have 20-300 members.
Many Network creators have multiple networks. i myself have 5.
A small fraction of ning’s network creators have one or more “large” (lets arbitrarily say 500+ members) networks. Were talking maybe 3,000 network creators. Widget Laboratories own Ning network had over 3000 users.
This clarifies why this is an issue in the Ning ecosphere. A VERY high percentage of the ACTIVE and SUCCESSFUL network creators have donr business with WL, and very few users have had issues with them. If anything their customer service has been slightly better than Ning’s (which is actually fairly good when u compare it to companies like userplane that have terrible customer service).
As much as i like Ning, and appreciate the value and service they provide, if you look at their communications on the issue, and widget Laboratories communication, you can see that NING has shut down all discussion and WL is handling it in a very classy, dignified way.
We all hope both parties will be able to come to some sort of agreement, it seems rather childish to throw away the good value that WL provided, and it only serves to create a chilling environment for developers who might want to extend the functionality of their platform.
“House of wingz asian dating and chat”???????
Where do these people come from? Christ! pffffffffffffffffft
this was not my fight, it was between WL & Ning
But Ning decided to leave my site hanging, broken links, tabs going no where, etc
They could have told anyone with WL, watch your back, backup your data, etc, etc
But I guess Im not that important
What Ning has done is beyond reprehensible. Without notification or warning they destroy sites people have spent hundreds of hours pouring blood, sweat, and tears into?
They have a small window to resolve their differences with WL like men and to retain my goodwill.
If they were a public company, our outrage would be bringing them to their knees. We need to find the investors and let them personally know what we think of this decision.
If Ning does not reinstate WL functionality, I can guarantee you they will have an enemy in me for their foreseeable future.
I can forgive an error or an extraordinary lapse in judgement, but I cannot forgive them if they do not stand up and right this wrong.
@David You are a fool man. They can’t treat their customer base with such disregard without getting backlash that they seriously deserve.
Charles,
The ‘customer base’ is WL’s membership. I don’t see how it is difficult to understand that WL are responsible for their members as you are for yours. Basically, your relationship with WL is nothing to do with Ning. I don’t think that you understand the relationship between 3rd parties, Ning and Ning networks.
David
JOOQFone
David England,
Go pound sand! This conversation is about destroying the work of countless Network Creators because Ning did not, would not, or could not resolve their issues adequately.
Further, I believe you’d be singing a different story if you were afftected. I don’t deny their right to do as they choose, but even common courtesy would dictate they inform the affected of their decision.
Frankly, I put you in the same category as I put them if you cannot even begin to fathom the bigger picture here.
David england builds widgets for ning but no one uses them so his comments are more about jealousy then his opinion about the matter.
Which network do you represent? Mine is http://www.jooqfone.ning.com. Drop by and see how we may be able to help you with our flash phone JOOQFone.
I like Spence - I found him interesting. Our product is actually unique - if you can find another one on the net then be my guest and unlike WL we are not confined to the auspices of Ning. Those two pointers would lead to a conclusion that we are not (were not) competitors. There is a big world out there and we are going for it. Thanks for your support.
Ken,
You are entitled to your opinion and for your information I was infact using one of their products which worked well for my network.
Ning is not to blame here - if WL had played within the boundaries that all of us have to as 3rd party suppliers then this situation clearly would not have arisen. Ning is not responsible for the fact that network creators enjoyed WL’s products. WL was given license to operate within the Ning infrastructure if and only if it adhered to the ToS. If they choose not to do that and as a result Ning pulls their service then I would be casting the first stone in the direction of WL - not Ning.
I appreciate that people need to vent their opinion and I fully understand how this has negatively impacted many networks but let us be real. You need to take an emotionless step back and look at his in black and white. Your relationship in this whole matter relating to widgets is entirley 100% with WL. You did not pay Ning for the widgets. Ning provide the platform for 3rd party suppliers including us and WL to create and develop useful and interesting products for the masses but there are rules in heaven as my dear mum says. If WL has been pulled by Ning for ToS violation then why do you still think it is apt that Ning should be slapped about the head?
The argument is that Ning should have informed WL members that they are going to remove WL before the fact? Simply put, that is not Ning’s job lol - anybody with any business acumen will understand that. If anything, I would ask WL why they did not advise their members of the communication from Ning threatening action - in that way you would all have had some heads up on the issue.
Look at the relationships between all three parties here and it will all become much clearer.
David
JOOQFone
David,
I certainly appreciate your perspective. However, if you think there is a clear delineation between emotion and business, I question your own business acumen.
Ning is a promoter of ‘open social networks’ that failed to communicated an enormously impactful decision with their Network Creators. Do you not see the hypocrisy here?
Their actions speak volumes to a lack of character and judgement. Do you believe this uprising would have been 1/10th as outraged with a timely warning and an opportunity to remediate site design?
I’ve lost significant content because of no forewarning. I’ll accept responsibility for that. I don’t have the time now to devote to making the site functional. Ning, my users send you their love and appreciation. I think not.
We can debate the legality of their move all day, but the morality is truly at issue. When companies are doing everything they can to promote a positive self-image, Ning decides to self-sabotage when other avenues were easily accessible.
This could be big business acting in the interests of big business 20 years ago. Doesn’t it have that same horrid, rancid smell?
Web 2.0 is all about openness and collaboration. I bought into Ning’s platform and vision. The way they effected this decision has no elements of openness or collaboration to it…actually, it has no rational elements to it at all. Perhaps that is why it is all the more scary.
If their intent was to sow seed of doubt, mistrust, and angst, they have performed admirably. If the intent was to…oh, wait, they haven’t been forthcoming with what their intentions were, have they?
This style of business operation is as antiquated as it is loathsome. We are reasonable people who only would have appreciated reasonable warning. If Ning couldn’t figure this out, how can we trust them moving forward? That’s why you see even those who were not affected worried.
Oh, by the way, I laud your shameless plug of your site and product. Nice to see among all this unrest you’re still trying to chase ambulances and sell product. Definitely make use of the ‘buzz’ to self-promote and market…not transparent at all.
Please feel free to reply…and make sure to include your site and product(s) again…but I am done speaking with you and wasting my energies. You are as Ning…but good luck, really.
Ken,
Ref: the plug - my point was that I am not hiding behind some kind of faceless anonymity.
I understand that my comments will be read and perceived as sensible in some quarters and perhaps not so much in others and thats OK. I am also aware fof the fact that putting my name and website and product name against this could potentially have had a negative effect. But you know what? I did it anyway to prove my support of Ning. I am sorry you do not concur with my take on all this but hey - it takes all kinds to make a world. It would be pretty dull if we all agreed on everything. I am glad the steam and sting seems to have been taken out of this attack and make no apologies for playing even a small part in that.
I am the kind of guy to stand up for what I believe in and Ning will corroborate on that - infact Ning and I have not always seen eye to eye on every subject lol, but in this case I the balance of opinion was clearly misinformed. Your truck should be with WL - perhaps they will tell you why the CEO of a multi million dollar company has publicly repeated the ToS violation issue here .. http://networkcreators.ning.co.....c%3A316618. Who has more to lose by lieing?
I think this subject is over now but if you have any other points you would like to raise you know where you can reach me.
Cheers
David
JOOQFone
Respect for Ning -1000.
Time for a open source Ning competitor! My developers are already coding away
Your developers might be a little late: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008.....e-on-ning/
“Your developers might be a little late…”
I think I heard that one when phpNuke came out…
It’s never too late…
Ning is now misrepresenting what happened to http://widgetlaboratory.ning.com/ , it it says “This social network has been taken offline by its owner” which is a blatant lie.
“ITS” is vague and could mean the investors ; )