Comments on: Bezos Says He Wants S3 Uptime to Be Nothing Less Than Perfection. (Yeah, Work On That). http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/ Startup and Technology News Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:17:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: Cloud Computing For Personal Backups - Amazon S3 Versus Dreamhost? « All The Naughty Bits http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2437913 Cloud Computing For Personal Backups - Amazon S3 Versus Dreamhost? « All The Naughty Bits Fri, 15 Aug 2008 14:48:37 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2437913 [...] One final issue to look at is availability. Amazon has an actual SLA for S3 which guarantees %99.9 uptime, or you will get reduced rate for the period of the outage. This is actually pretty cool as they will return from 10%-25% of your money for that month. Keep in mind this is good, but it’s not too strong a guarantee. Once they have a bad month, the incentive to keep the month good goes away. After all, under the Amazon S3 Service Level Agreement they could be down the entire month (0% uptime), but still charge you 75% for storage fees. In extremis this sounds ridiculous, but think about the structure of the SLA’s incentives. Note that Amazon S3 just had an 8 hour outage which even crashed some iPhones. This puts them at %98.88 for the month, just for this event. CEO Jeff Bezosfelt compelled to reply. [...] [...] One final issue to look at is availability. Amazon has an actual SLA for S3 which guarantees %99.9 uptime, or you will get reduced rate for the period of the outage. This is actually pretty cool as they will return from 10%-25% of your money for that month. Keep in mind this is good, but it’s not too strong a guarantee. Once they have a bad month, the incentive to keep the month good goes away. After all, under the Amazon S3 Service Level Agreement they could be down the entire month (0% uptime), but still charge you 75% for storage fees. In extremis this sounds ridiculous, but think about the structure of the SLA’s incentives. Note that Amazon S3 just had an 8 hour outage which even crashed some iPhones. This puts them at %98.88 for the month, just for this event. CEO Jeff Bezosfelt compelled to reply. [...]

]]> By: » Social Media and Self Importance: Are You Signal or Noise? http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2420612 » Social Media and Self Importance: Are You Signal or Noise? Sat, 26 Jul 2008 20:31:40 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2420612 [...] We had a microwave oven that would beep every minute until I turned it off. I called it a self-important device. - Eric Shonfeld [...] [...] We had a microwave oven that would beep every minute until I turned it off. I called it a self-important device. - Eric Shonfeld [...]

]]> By: imodeo http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2417691 imodeo Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:25:39 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2417691 It looks like cool stuff and they have a free online developer program too. You can integrate and test applications with an online cluster. If you're interested you can take a look at it here http://www.caringo.com/partners_01.html. It looks like cool stuff and they have a free online developer program too. You can integrate and test applications with an online cluster. If you’re interested you can take a look at it here http://www.caringo.com/partners_01.html.

]]> By: math http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2416707 math Wed, 23 Jul 2008 01:56:20 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2416707 365 * 24 = 8760 8/8760 = 9.132*10^-4. This is still 99.99 uptime Dave. 365 * 24 = 8760
8/8760 = 9.132*10^-4.

This is still 99.99 uptime Dave.

]]> By: bitnoid http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2416555 bitnoid Tue, 22 Jul 2008 23:25:24 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2416555 Cloud storage has its place for certain types of content and organizations at a certain level of maturity, but if you need more control over your content and the storage infrastructure there are alternatives. A little company out of TX called Caringo provides a clustered storage software that delivers the type of storage infrastructure that underlies these services an an affordable price. They also claim you can start with a small cluster and grow it seamlessly at your pace (1TB or 10TBs at a time) using standard, commodity x86 server hardware (pick a vendor). Its interesting and I'm considering their CAStor product as a secondary/backup site that I manage for my content in case S3 goes down again. I also expect I'll need to move to my own storage as my user community and capacity requirements grow. Cloud storage has its place for certain types of content and organizations at a certain level of maturity, but if you need more control over your content and the storage infrastructure there are alternatives. A little company out of TX called Caringo provides a clustered storage software that delivers the type of storage infrastructure that underlies these services an an affordable price. They also claim you can start with a small cluster and grow it seamlessly at your pace (1TB or 10TBs at a time) using standard, commodity x86 server hardware (pick a vendor). Its interesting and I’m considering their CAStor product as a secondary/backup site that I manage for my content in case S3 goes down again. I also expect I’ll need to move to my own storage as my user community and capacity requirements grow.

]]> By: jim http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2416246 jim Tue, 22 Jul 2008 19:07:44 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2416246 "Perfection is not necessary ....". Unfortunately perfection is necessary. Reliability theory tells us that as the mean time between failures approaches infinity, so does the mean time to repair. If it does not fail, you cannot fix it. That is the paradox all Cloud Computing live with. Thus failures must be allowed to occur but do not let your users know. To reach that level of redundancy and network control takes time and commitment. An eight hours user outage means S3 has a long ways to go in both. “Perfection is not necessary ….”. Unfortunately perfection is necessary. Reliability theory tells us that as the mean time between failures approaches infinity, so does the mean time to repair. If it does not fail, you cannot fix it. That is the paradox all Cloud Computing live with.

Thus failures must be allowed to occur but do not let your users know. To reach that level of redundancy and network control takes time and commitment. An eight hours user outage means S3 has a long ways to go in both.

]]> By: Jack http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2416045 Jack Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:50:26 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2416045 I remember a couple of years ago Amazon had a 199 Xbox (199?) and it brought down their servers, and for days you could feel it - they probably have come a long way but nothing is guaranteed. Cloud computing has <a href="http://www.internetevolution.com/author.asp?section_id=561&doc_id=152561&f_src=flffour" rel="nofollow">its downside, as users are at the provider's mercy.</a> In that link, they comment on whether Cloud Computing is a benefit or a threat. I remember a couple of years ago Amazon had a 199 Xbox (199?) and it brought down their servers, and for days you could feel it - they probably have come a long way but nothing is guaranteed.

Cloud computing has its downside, as users are at the provider’s mercy. In that link, they comment on whether Cloud Computing is a benefit or a threat.

]]> By: Scale Fail: Amazon and Pizza Team Engineering : Beyond Search http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2416037 Scale Fail: Amazon and Pizza Team Engineering : Beyond Search Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:38:56 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2416037 [...] Perfection”. I’m getting old for sure. Mr. Schonfeld’s article is a must read here. The world’s smartest person (Jeff Bezos) talks about “the dawn of a new [...] [...] Perfection”. I’m getting old for sure. Mr. Schonfeld’s article is a must read here. The world’s smartest person (Jeff Bezos) talks about “the dawn of a new [...]

]]> By: Harish Agrawal http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415827 Harish Agrawal Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:47:35 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415827 Where is competition as compared to Amazon S3. When they launched they were the first. It will evolve and become better. Where is competition as compared to Amazon S3. When they launched they were the first. It will evolve and become better.

]]> By: Tom Holder http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415796 Tom Holder Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:10:53 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415796 8 hours seems like a long time to fix any outage in a datacenter, providing no one has driven a truck through your building of course.... but even then, reverse the truck up. I wonder what their internal procedures are like for dealing with stuff like this, or are there just a load of tech guys running around paniking? Of course, there is another time dimension that runs about four or five times faster than the normal space time continuem called the "oh crap, my server's down" dimension :) They're doing a pretty good job in my opinion though so far. 8 hours seems like a long time to fix any outage in a datacenter, providing no one has driven a truck through your building of course…. but even then, reverse the truck up. I wonder what their internal procedures are like for dealing with stuff like this, or are there just a load of tech guys running around paniking?

Of course, there is another time dimension that runs about four or five times faster than the normal space time continuem called the “oh crap, my server’s down” dimension :)

They’re doing a pretty good job in my opinion though so far.

]]> By: Dick http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415700 Dick Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:10:43 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415700 Knowing about a problem and fixing a problem are two different things. Knowing about a problem and fixing a problem are two different things.

]]> By: Amazon’ S3 go down for eight hours « Weblibraryjpn’s Weblog http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415669 Amazon’ S3 go down for eight hours « Weblibraryjpn’s Weblog Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:34:52 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415669 [...] Bezos Says He Wants S3 Uptime to Be Nothing Less Than Perfection. (Yeah, Work On That). (July 21, 2008 TechCrunch) When cloud-computing services like Amazon’s S3 go down, as it did again this weekend, it raises the question of whether they are ready for prime time. If these services keep going down, can startups rely on them enough to build their businesses on top of them? [...] [...] Bezos Says He Wants S3 Uptime to Be Nothing Less Than Perfection. (Yeah, Work On That). (July 21, 2008 TechCrunch) When cloud-computing services like Amazon’s S3 go down, as it did again this weekend, it raises the question of whether they are ready for prime time. If these services keep going down, can startups rely on them enough to build their businesses on top of them? [...]

]]> By: Mark http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415626 Mark Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:44:49 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415626 Oops, make that GroundWork. Oops, make that GroundWork.

]]> By: Mark http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415625 Mark Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:43:54 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415625 Hellooo, Amazon, have you ever heard of systems monitoring? GroundSource, anyone? Sheesh, they need some serious systems monitoring love over there. Hellooo, Amazon, have you ever heard of systems monitoring? GroundSource, anyone? Sheesh, they need some serious systems monitoring love over there.

]]> By: Scrappy http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415530 Scrappy Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:44:21 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415530 Hey Eric, I interpreted "indistinguishable from perfection" differently than you. I don't think he meant "nothing less than perfection" (ie perfection, which is unatainable) , I think he meant perfection *for all practical purposes*. Subtle difference I know, but when I read your headline, I had to read the article, because I didn't think Bezos would say that, and now I don't believe he actually did. Of course, the thrust of his statement (and your article) is that reliablity has to be off the charts if people are people are going to base thir businesses on you, and on that we all gree :-) Shawn Hey Eric,

I interpreted “indistinguishable from perfection” differently than you. I don’t think he meant “nothing less than perfection” (ie perfection, which is unatainable) , I think he meant perfection *for all practical purposes*. Subtle difference I know, but when I read your headline, I had to read the article, because I didn’t think Bezos would say that, and now I don’t believe he actually did.

Of course, the thrust of his statement (and your article) is that reliablity has to be off the charts if people are people are going to base thir businesses on you, and on that we all gree :-)

Shawn

]]> By: Gebadia Smith http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415503 Gebadia Smith Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:06:39 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415503 Mike for a guy who is outsourcing to India, doesn't know any code what would you suggest for hosting a facebook app. Right now I plan on using joyent even though the price is fairly high and I am not quite sure what makes them better than godaddy for hosting a facebook app. I will admit to knowing nothing about hosting and would love some advice on what to look for from you or your readers. :) Mike for a guy who is outsourcing to India, doesn’t know any code what would you suggest for hosting a facebook app. Right now I plan on using joyent even though the price is fairly high and I am not quite sure what makes them better than godaddy for hosting a facebook app. I will admit to knowing nothing about hosting and would love some advice on what to look for from you or your readers. :)

]]> By: brianp http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415495 brianp Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:55:41 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415495 S3 is not so bad, amazon have really good services so im confident brian http://www.themostpowerfulcompany.com S3 is not so bad, amazon have really good services so im confident

brian
http://www.themostpowerfulcompany.com

]]> By: Morgan http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415454 Morgan Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:12:22 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415454 I'm still planning to use S3, Amazon's one of the few places I trust to actually improve after a problem, and historically their downtime stats have been phenomenal. Still, tough for users at the time. I’m still planning to use S3, Amazon’s one of the few places I trust to actually improve after a problem, and historically their downtime stats have been phenomenal. Still, tough for users at the time.

]]> By: BetterThanTC http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415453 BetterThanTC Tue, 22 Jul 2008 03:11:58 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415453 Server hardware and bandwidth is so cheap now many startups simply don't need S3 or CDN for content delivery or scalable computation. TL - http://offur.com/BetterThanTechCrunch Server hardware and bandwidth is so cheap now many startups simply don’t need S3 or CDN for content delivery or scalable computation.

TL - http://offur.com/BetterThanTechCrunch

]]> By: Dave http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415436 Dave Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:48:52 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415436 If Amazon's design goals are for 99.99% up time then it failed.. Personally I love App Engine. I can't say enough good things about it. To the person who mentions a % of your queries being blocked, then are you sure it's not a quota problem? And if it is then talk with the Google guys about raising your quota. I did a few million requests yesterday and had 1 request error. I call that pretty damn close to perfection. And sure the approach to designing an App Engine data model is different - but I'll take massive, fluid scalability any day. If Amazon’s design goals are for 99.99% up time then it failed..

Personally I love App Engine. I can’t say enough good things about it. To the person who mentions a % of your queries being blocked, then are you sure it’s not a quota problem? And if it is then talk with the Google guys about raising your quota. I did a few million requests yesterday and had 1 request error. I call that pretty damn close to perfection. And sure the approach to designing an App Engine data model is different - but I’ll take massive, fluid scalability any day.

]]> By: ajg http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415426 ajg Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:35:53 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415426 At least they didn't LOSE HALF THE FILES!!! http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/10/mediamaxthelinkup-closes-its-doors/ At least they didn’t LOSE HALF THE FILES!!!

http://www.techcrunch.com/2008.....its-doors/

]]> By: Probabilistic versus Deterministic http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415417 Probabilistic versus Deterministic Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:27:21 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415417 Google App Engine is WORSER.. it just refuses to x% of your queries.. if they think it takes up more compute time... or that ur data model is relational (yes.. it hates relational models) Amazon atleast is upfront abt it.. they tell you that its DOWN..means DOWN.... App Engine keeps u in LIMBO.. Google App Engine is WORSER.. it just refuses to x% of your queries.. if they think it takes up more compute time… or that ur data model is relational (yes.. it hates relational models)

Amazon atleast is upfront abt it.. they tell you that its DOWN..means DOWN…. App Engine keeps u in LIMBO..

]]> By: Roman http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415414 Roman Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:24:59 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415414 Wow. 8 hours of down time? Has anyone tried to monetize that down time for the companies affected? Wow. 8 hours of down time? Has anyone tried to monetize that down time for the companies affected?

]]> By: Mike http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/bezos/#comment-2415396 Mike Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:10:36 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/?p=20285#comment-2415396 one of the most painful 8 hours of my life (only semi-sarcastic). It was pretty stressful, and even though I am still going to use s3 -- I am looking into a backup system asap so I can just 'flip a switch' when this happens, so half my site doesn't go down. one of the most painful 8 hours of my life (only semi-sarcastic). It was pretty stressful, and even though I am still going to use s3 — I am looking into a backup system asap so I can just ‘flip a switch’ when this happens, so half my site doesn’t go down.

]]>