Today at the Supernova conference there was a panel about who owns the social graph. The panelists were Kevin Marks from Google, Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and Dave Morin, Facebook’s Senior Platform Manager. The conversation turned very interesting when moderator Tantek Celik pointed out a post by David Recordon that showed how Facebook is blocking Google’s Friend Connect product, and not allowing users to extract their Facebook social graph through Google. Morin from Facebook said that the reason they’re doing it is because Google’s implementation didn’t comply with the terms of use, while Marks from Google responded saying they strongly believed they were within the usage terms, and others suggested that there may be an ulterior motive for blocking friend connect.
Google Friend Connect is an API and application that allows users to extract their social graph data from various networks and then use the data in other applications that support the API. So for Friend Connect to be effective, it requires that the larger social networks allow their data to be extracted in one form or another. Facebook provides an API, but it seems they didn’t like how Google was using that interface as part of Friend Connect. Tantek attempted to prompt both Marks and Morin to reach a solution while on the panel, but Morin reverted to an earlier comment that “members from both parties were in discussions on working out a solution”. It was implied that this is happening on an engineering and executive level, and that legal teams had poured over the various terms of use agreements.
A question from the audience asked why Facebook is falling back on their global legal terms as a reason for not allowing individual users to extract their own data. Facebook committed to working this out, and Morin said that they did want to allow users to access their data freely. It is apparent that there is a war of control here, with Facebook hesitant to hand over the keys to their social graph to Google, despite the fact that each individual user needs to request to retrieve their data.
We recorded a video with David Recordon of Six Apart, who originally posted the issue on his blog and was part of a separate panel discussion today concerning open standards and formats.
GOOGLE needs to SLAP
facebook
how dare facebook deny the great GOOGLE access!
Hey Google, give us your search algorithm that took you years to engineer and develop…
Facebook has worked very hard to create a place for people to connect in a virtual setting that tries to mimic their real life connections… and they have done a GREAT job. Now everyone wants that data because they see the value of real life connections on the internet.
How did Facebook get all of that data? By respecting user privacy. Facebook is on board for an open internet, but in order to get there, they need to keep doing what they have been… respecting user privacy.
They will be opening the gates (Facebook Connect), and when that happens, it will be done so — PROTECTING USER PRIVACY. Not, just an application that sucks your friends out and puts them somewhere else (Google Friend Connect).
any HOW are these companies going to make money off of this? isnt the point of being in biz to make a profit?
the real losers here are the users, because they’ll only be able to share their guacamole recipes in walled gardens.
they’re feeling big G red sniper dot on their forehead.
Can’t wait for Google to whore out my personal details to hoards of AdSense affiliates.
Facebook has taken the proper stance to maintain its $15 billion valuation by limiting access to its customers’ identities on third-party websites. Facebook aspires to be the social network where customers can broadcast their true identity, and that requires a level of trust between Facebook and its customers. To gain this trust, Facebook allows its customers excellent control over which other users can view their Facebook profile, and how much of the Facebook profile is visible to those users. Facebook continues to earn the trust of its customers; evidenced by its heavy usage, and it would be irresponsible of the Company to allow third-party websites access to its customers’ identities.
…showed how Facebook is blocking Google’s Friend Connect product, and not allowing users to extract their Facebook social graph through Google…
Facebook has every right to block Google. When are these idiots business man understand the very simple term called property rights, then they would have stopped moaning about things they think they have God given right to, which is not theirs. Facebook data is the property of its rightful owners (Facebook) and unless Google comes to a voluntary agreement amongst consenting adults (business men) with Facebook over how the data is to used or leased from Facebook, then Google should just piss off.
Surprise, surprise. Fanboy Ryan Merket (#2) repeating garbage marketing speak from Facebook. Like an open-mouthed donkey:
“Facebook is on board for an open internet, but in order to get there, they need to keep doing what they have been… respecting user privacy.”
Yeah, like Beacon?
I call total bullshit.
Your inability to understand this is a business decision gives you ZERO credibility. It ain’t about “respecting user privacy”. You are absolutely blinded or clueless.
The difference between Google’s search algorithm and MY data is that one is mine, and the other is theirs.
Google’s search algorithm doesn’t contain any of MY personal data.
Why doesn’t Facebook just say MY (and all member’s) personal data is theirs and end it.
Or is Facebook saving me from myself like CA protecting me from using 23andMe?
Property rights????? What happened to the users rights???
Really tired of Facebook and there constant whining.
A fight between the haves and the havenots… not about social, but about money.
Frank,
Facebook has spoke out and apologized for the way Beacon was initiated. Now ALL Beacon sites are required opt-in ONLY. Please do your research before trying to call me out.
Have you ever given thought that maybe your friends don’t want to be able to take their data to 3rd party sites? Sure, the information YOU enter in Facebook is YOUR data, just like the information your friends enter into Facebook is THEIR data. What Google is essentially doing is neglecting the fact that your friends may not want you to take that information to other networks.
Privacy, Frank… Privacy. That’s why Facebook is growing, and that’s why they are stopping the Google siphon.
Looks like a lot of Facebook fans blinded by too many sheep?
The user should have the choice of who and what can access his/her data.
Sorry Facebook – but we can make that decision for ourselves – after all – we chose to trust you, sign up and put our data into your application didn’t we? I love Facebook for the utility and ease of access (still a great iPhone app) – but the fact is my professional contacts are on LinkedIn, my school contacts are on friends reuinited, and I have friends on Ning, Plaxo and a dozen other networks/tools. Thats’ great – it demonstrates that today people can choose whatever networking product suits their needs.
So be a good chap, quit the Microsoft stance (yeah – they talked a lot about “open” standards for years as well) and be a part of the community…
Norbert Perkins said…
Sorry Facebook – but we can make that decision for ourselves …
Facebook servers belong to Facebook. Do you get it? If Facebook blocks Google or anyone else trying to get access to their server, since it is their property, then they have every right to do just that. Sorry, you’re misguided, in thinking that it is YOUR decision. The server is not yours, it is the property of Facebook and the decision is theirs.
Here is a suggestion to you. How about take your data from Facebook and put it on your own website, heh? In that way, Google crawler can then index your detail. See, you then make that decision for yourselves, since the decision to allow the Google crawler to index your detail is yours alone (after all, the page with your detail on it is your property).
It is time that people should stop moaning & thinking that they have a legitimate say in what other property owners do with what is theirs.
It’s not only about rights. Don’t misguide people that way.
Right Ryan, I can’t just type in my friend’s data directly from Outlook. Whatever you say buddy. Keep trying. Oh, they said they were sorry? STFU.
Allowing my usage of 3rd party sites to be displayed was merely an oversight. My purchase at Overstock was really their business, sure. You want some vodka in that kool-aid?
If facebook was concerned about privacy Beacon would neve have happend. this is about business, nothing more. Google knows and so does facebook, but your are too ignorant to be aware.
Ryan Merket is dumber than any other person I have seen comment here on Techcrunch ever, period (b/c I don’t thin he is even paid directly by them). Dumber than a rock.
@Ryan Merket
If you won’t admit that this is a business decision and nothing else, we have nothing further to discuss.
Ask Gilmor or Arrington.Genius.
Precisely, when Google opens up the source for Map/Reduce and expose their search algorithm they can start having a bit more ground to demanding Facebook bend over for a data raping.
Their (and Arrington’s) stance on the topic is disingenuous at best. Why on earth would a company allow an invasive parasite like Google to have at one of their core assets?
Frank,
Beacon apology:
http://blog.fac...post=7584397130
“We’ve made a lot of mistakes building this feature, but we’ve made even more with how we’ve handled them. We simply did a bad job with this release, and I apologize for it.”
“Ryan Merket is dumber than any other person…” — and with that comment. I am done with you, for good. Go troll somewhere else.
Facebook’s Beacon Apology:
“We’ve made a lot of mistakes building this feature, but we’ve made even more with how we’ve handled them. We simply did a bad job with this release, and I apologize for it.” – Mark Zuckerburg
http://blog.fac...post=7584397130
“Ryan Merket is dumber than any other person…” – and with that I’m done with you.
Really tired of Facebook and there constant whining.
…why Facebook is falling back on their global legal terms as a reason for not allowing individual users to extract their own data
I think its wrong question: the user *can* access/extract/whatever its own data. Its all about using Google to access my data. If Google with the agreement with Facebook got access to all my data without my permission, it would be horrible. But if its all about allowing Google to passing (organizing) data for me, with my clear permission and only when I want it, I won’t protest.
Wish I’d been there for the tense standoff.
“It was implied that this is happening on an engineering and executive level, and that legal teams had poured over the various terms of use agreements.”
So what exactly are they going to pour over those documents. Gravy sounds good. You might think of poring over this post by the way.
Meh, to hell with them both.
But Friend Connect doesn’t take your data from Facebook unless you tell it to. Just like any other importer.
Facebook and Friend Connect aren’t rivals, they complement each other. In one you actually do the work, and the other is a tool to have one global ID among several websites.
The idea of data portability is creating some problems, as everyone wants “open access” but only if they are the ones providing the service.
Ryan Merket,
Facebook is the worst thing for privacy since Nazis started taking names! It shows all these pictures from others that have you in them to your employers, and it’s up to you to find them and untag them. Even worse, everything they do is opt-out, so by default all your information is shared all the time with everyone. I agree with Frank, at least the search results from Google don’t contain my personal information, until it’s my Facebook profile that pops up on the search!
Facebook blows chunks, they will sell our data if it makes money – and when you signed up you gave them a license to use the data for any purpose which they see fit….
Arvin,
What makes Facebook different than any other social network is the ability to customize those very things you bring up.
Don’t want you picture shown to random people? Turn it off in your privacy controls. Just as if you were to walk down Market St., you cannot opt-out of random people seeing your face — but on Facebook you can opt-out of random people seeing your face.
Facebook has A LOT of customization when it comes to your privacy. You can turn off all of the items you brought up in your post.
“they will sell our data if it makes money” — No, they won’t. In no way does that align with their business goals.
Wow, it’s shocking how the facebook fans on this site ignore the bigger picture.
Just another reason why I keep my facebook activities to a minimum.
Ah…reminds me of the IM interoperability wars between MSN and AOL, and we all know what happened there. No need to get all up-in-arms right out of the gate. There will be lots more back-and-forth before all is said and done. Time to sit back and watch the fun…
I was in the room during this fight and saw an obvious winner.
Tantek moderated and asked for comments via Twitter “@supernova2008″ and showing the results on S-u-m-m-i-z-e.
Twitter was allowing summize to summarize all hash tagged tweets. Twitter wins.
Am citing this as a prime example of ‘backfiring forward’ in my book, “What They Dont Teach You At Stanford Business School”
@larrychiang or text me @650-283-8008
Um, this is a tad bit scary. Considering that I use Google’s services and Facebook and both hold my data, I do wonder if I made a mistake by using either..
However, post 29 is the reason why I picked Facebook above other social networks. I choose who sees what. Don’t quite remember having the same power a few years back, when I (sadly) had a MySpace.
For you MySpace fans, don’t get me wrong. MySpace is fine.. but I’d rather control what is seen by whom, since I deal with friends, family, and clients from the same social network profile.