The Flip Mino, the third version of the popular Flip video camera, launched today to a torrent of well orchestrated press coverage.
We’ve been a little harsh on the Flip in the past, so I was pleased when they reached out to us under embargo to write about the new launch. The only problem was, they wouldn’t send a test unit until after the embargo was over. We declined. But I noted that nearly all of the press coverage today dutifully followed the suggestive comments given in the press information. The WSJ writer frankly sounded like she wanted to quit and go work for the company.
So I haven’t actually tried out the new Flip Mino. But I’ve spoken with people who have, and I used the Flip Ultra, which launched late last year, for a while before abandoning it. And I just can’t figure out why people like this thing.
None of the reviews compared the Flip to it’s core competition: normal digital cameras. Instead everyone focuses on the fact that Flip has sold nearly a million units, saying that’s 15-20% of the camcorder market - and the Flip is a fraction of the price of most of those competitors.
The Flip’s video quality (640×480) is much lower than most people would expect from a camcorder. But it happens to be exactly the same resolution as most digital cameras, almost all of which now offer video as well. And nearly 40 million of them sold in 2007. Canon alone sold nearly 9 million digital cameras last year.
As I said, I abandoned my Flip Ultra soon after buying it. The main reason is that it just doesn’t play nice with Macs, and editing video requires a number of extra steps. This is because Flip insists on encoding video in a proprietary format that iMovie can’t handle directly. Why they do that is beyond me - everyone is moving to Quicktime at this point.
I now happily use my Canon SD750 for basic video footage (example is here). Not only does it take great pictures, it matches or beats the Flip Mino in every category. And the Canon SD750 costs $3.39 less than the Flip Mino.
Both devices record at 640×480. The Canon has a 3 inch screen, The Flip Mino is 1.5 inches. The Canon has 3x optical zoom and 4x digital zoom; the Flip has only 2x digital zoom. The Flip has just 2 GB of storage and 60 minutes of record time. The Canon, with a $20 2 GB storage card, matches that. But you can also bring spare storage cards for the Canon, you can’t for the Flip. Same with the rechargeable batteries. The devices are roughly the same size - the Mino is longer and the Canon is wider and fatter, but they’re very close. Both easily fit in a pocket.
Here’s another problem with the Flip Mino I’ve been hearing - there’s something wrong with the sound. As in, the sound is awful. The test video the WSJ did seems to support this, although it was windy in that video.
Some people will argue that the Flip is dead simple to use, which is true (except when it comes to editing the video). But my Canon is pretty darn easy to use, too. And the video editing is smooth sailing.
At the end of the day, my camera has better video features than the Flip, costs about the same, and takes really good pictures, too. There is no way I’m going to drag two devices around when I only need one: The Flip loses.
And they have more competition on the way. More and more mobile phones take video now, too, and can use wifi or cell connectivity to stream the footage to the Internet. That means Flip is getting hit from three competitive directions: mobile phones on the low end, decent camcorders on the high end, and tens of millions of everyday digital cameras that outperform it on video.
So tell me why you love the Flip so much again?
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The USP of flip is that you can directly upload to Youtube. They have made it so simple that even house wives or any techie person can do it
Whereas videos from canon require some kind of software to edit before you directly upload them to youtube.
Yes camera phones do the same thing, but the good ones costs more than the flip infact the double its price for example iphone. Not to forget the 60 monthly subscription fee that you have shell out
well there’s the problem right there. the arthur of this article is a mac user. 95 percent of the world is on a pc, and he’s on a mac. and he wonders why he has difficult time. i have an older flip and love it. i plug it in to my computer, i don’t even use their software. i just go to my computer and download the video and send it to microsoft movie maker. which compresses the file even smaller, but keeps the same quality of video.
movie maker is so simple to use i love. and anybody complaining about it only being 640×480 doesn’t send video emails. i do that all the time. who cares about hd for home video. how many of the flaws in your face do want people to see. i don’t know anybody that cares about watching more than a few minutes of somebody’s home video.
oh and by the way, rechageable batteries are not what i want. i would rather use alkaline and be able to carry a spare set with me. for pictures out of the video, i just capture them with movie maker.
Actually, save for one computer. All the computers in my household are mac and I have been a Mac user for about four years. I used my Macbook for lots of creative projects and mac has the best software(though i do admit a little pricey). But I digress, when I got my flip mino, it automatically worked. I didn’t need to convert anything or download anything. It loaded up my videos and I managed them as I please. Besides, 95% of the world is PC because PC’s are cheaper and easier. Only artistic and creative people use Macs. mwahahaha
I have both digital camera, a cannon (from a conference I went too), a cheap $80 GE camera, and have had 4 other sd card cameras and I still like the flip. Video editing software is very simple, b/c it doesn’t have many features and I was giving macs a chance and learning both Pinnacle and I-Movie when I tested the camera and it doesn’t work well with a Mac. I like the camera because it is simple and it should appeal to Mac people, it just doesn’t work well with Mac’s. It does work well for simple family video and with PC’s and I do slightly prefer it over my digital cameras. I of course purchased the original one for only $70, so this is really not comparison with a Canon camera (nice camera’s).
The software that is built into the camera is very easy to use. I think even a Mac fan would find it easy enough to figure it out. Sorry, I just feel Mac’s are for people with more money then sense (hopefully they just don’t have time to figure things out). Don’t get mad, if money grew on trees, I would probably have a Mac and a Cannon PowerShot too people. I do agree with the author that they are in a tough market between cell phones and quality digital cameras. I think it does show that making products that are simple is what sells (take note product engineers/designers).
As a full time photographer I agree wholeheartedly. If there was a magic “hack’ to make a flip do photos it would not compare to the sd750 for photos, so why would one want just video?
I sometimes envy “consumers” with their point and shoots, that do video and have pretty great TTL fashes built in. (for snapshots and party photos) I’ve been recommending the SD canon line for point and shoot and I’m a Nikon guy.
Nice Review Michael
A Nikon guy recommending Canon… Ouch
Adam - you can take still photos from videos on the flip, but its a pain and they look awful, so you’re right.
Mike,
Sometimes you just don’t want to take your iPhone out surfing. I don’t always trust the water proof housing with $400 phone. With a $150 device I am more apt to go more places and do more things. The Flip matches my lifestyle. I have a mac too, and I HATE the Flip’s choice of video format (hopefully they are listening).
All in all, the Flip has earned it’s place.
Matt
Sanjay - yes, the fact that you don’t need a cord to plug the flip into a computer is great, but to upload direclty to youtube, myspace, etc., you have to use their proprietary software. There’s a zero chance of me doing that. I want to use iMovie and I want to do basic editing before I upload them.
If you don’t care about editiing, the way to go is Qik or another service that streams live from your phone. The iPhone will also be doing this momentarily.
mattsurfs - so why not take your digital camera with you? You can get a decent one for less than $100, and it takes video as good as the flip.
I swear to God you people are just eating up the marketing hype this company is spewing. The Flip is just like my canon except that it doesn’t do most of the things the canon does. And they use a proprietary format.
If you don’t care about editiing, the way to go is Qik or another service that streams live from your phone. The iPhone will also be doing this momentarily.
Michael, people like that the Flip has less features than a Canon would have, it just makes things simpler.
As 37signals says in this blog post: http://www.37signals.com/svn/p.....doing-less
“The quality isn’t the sell, the convenience and foolproofery is. You can’t make a mistake, you can’t do anything wrong. Its purpose is pure to the core: Shoot quick videos without thinking about it.”
gabe - yeah, that’s flawed. everyone points to the market share numbers, which compare the flip to camcorders. they’re selling a lot compared to camcorders because they are so cheap, not because they’re easy to use. But they aren’t cheaper than digital cameras, and they aren’t selling that many. And the video feature on a digital camera is so dead simple to use that the marketing stuff doesn’t work there.
Like I said, I gave the flip a real shot. I bought one myself even though free gadgets flow into our offices daily. But the proprietary software and formats killed it for me. And there is definitely something wrong with the sound.
I am no Flip fanboy, but each additional cable I have to plug in to make one of my devices work leaves me 80% less likely to use it. I have a few different computers in my life, across multiple locations, and I am done with carrying adapters and docks for each peripheral or accessory I use.
In that light, the Flip’s switchblade style USB connector is dreamy for me, even if I agree with everything else you said.
sacca - agree.
Michael, isn’t it a little harsh writing a review or comparison when you admit “I haven’t actually tried out the new Flip Mino”?! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not defending it - I know nothing about it, but I do think you should at least try the new version before you flame it.
Michael,
Isn’t it another proof that good marketing matters?
Recipe for success:
1/ Take a general purpose device
2/ Focus on a specific usage, remove the extra features
3/ Hire a designer
4/ Market the “Beautiful Simplicity” of the result
5/ For version II, restore some of the removed extra features!
Apple has been doing that for years I think.
JeanHughesRobert: “Apple has been doing that for years I think.”
What ARE you talking about?!
Michael,
I have a Sony Cyber-shot DSC-P200. It is a great digital camera. I can take photos with it and then if something happens that I want video of, I just switch the selector knob to video and I am ready to go. Seeing as I can carry a slew of memory sticks and a spare battery, there is no reason for me to buy a flip. I also like the fact that I don’t have to plug a cable into my laptop, I just pop out the card from the camera and insert into the reader that is built-in. So, while the flip may have a lot of hype surrounding it, I am sticking to my Sony and it’s ability for unlimited memory.
Cheers!
@mike power
Compare the iPod to the Archos. That’s one example.
Compare the Mac to the PC. That’s a bigger one. Some of the “extra features” initially removed include the ability to plug various type of peripherals.
Compare the feature set of the iPod with similarly priced phones, everybody agrees that a lot was missing, but the simplicity of the UI (and a decent browser) made it a success.
Compare most software from Apple, including iMovie, iTune, iWhatever to the equivalent applications on the market: Less feature but easier to use.
Flip is basically the same idea: Remove feature to focus on essential ones and make them easy to use, for a specific usage by a well defined market segment.
Isn’t it what Marketing is about?
Congrats. You have just described most Apple products. Overpriced, underpowered, overhyped but easy to use.
You are all over Apple yet fail to see that Flip is successful exactly for the same reasons Apple is. Hype hype hype and ignorance.
Michael - you wrote: “you have to use their proprietary software”
I haven’t experienced that with my flip. I can upload directly to flickr and youtube from the flip: flip out the usb, plug it into my computer, upload, done.
Here’s why I like my flip:
Number of videos of my kids shared with the grandparents before the flip = 0
Number of videos shared after the flip = zillions
Sure, I can probably do all the same stuff with something else, but I didn’t. That’s why it’s great.
They DO have plenty of room for improvement, and I am glad to see other folks entering this market.
Mike I think you are forgetting something fundamental here. You are not the Flip’s target audience.
I for one can’t work out why anyone would shell out for a device such as this when your mobile phone will do just as good, if not better, a job. I own a digital camera and camcorder made by the world’s biggest manufacturer of such - Nokia.
“…everyone is moving to Quicktime at this point”
Worth clarifying that it’s not moving to ‘Quicktime’ so much as to open standards based H.264 / MP4 based video codecs. These happen to be a core component of Quicktime and are what iPod / iPhone / Nokia / Zune (probably!) devices pretty much all support, as well as Apple’s iMovie application.
I use a Nokia N95 for exactly that reason, the camera features of the N95 are just perfect for quickly filming something, plus I’ve always got it on me. I haven’t used my old MiniDV camera in months.
You mention that digital cameras with their video function are just as easy to use and that just isn’t the case for everybody. My 60 year old mother received a fabulous digital camera for xmas - a canon. She tried to figure it out but it was too overwhelming. It now sits on a shelf unused. It’s definitely not easy for her to use. There are way too many options and settings and forget trying to upload it to her laptop. She can email and does so regularly and even does quite a bit of shopping online with her laptop but not much more than that. Her camera, she just can’t wrap her head around. Now the flip, she can do that. No options, no selections - simple, not overwhelming. She can find a usb port, plug it in and upload a video of her grandchildren. Video editing doesn’t concern her. Emailing relatives her videos - that she can do. Watching her flip videos of her grandchildren when she misses them is priceless to her. The quality could be better, the sound could be better and she can only video that which is up close since the flip has no zoom, but she loves it just the same because she can do it and that’s the difference.
My question is if it was half its current price would you feel the same? I do think its over priced for what it is.
a Powershot with the CHDK firmware is easily better than the Flip.
Similarly priced Casio Exilim great for footage plus USB loads straight to youtube or anywhere else
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Ha ha, everybody who does the lame self URL spam posting should check the success of the site above. Marketing geniuses!
hear hear. I don’t get the flip phenomenon. I use my Canon PowerShot for all my video. I just traveled to Brazil, Mexico and Argentina and I came back with great pictures and good video. All from one device. Plus, as you say, there’s no proprietary format. It records in .avi, so it’s uncompressed (i.e., large), but completely compatible with any editing software. With a large GB card, I’ve never had a problem with space.
Thank you for this post!
I’m so sick of the blogging community singing praises of the Flip. My $99 Sanyo digital camera from Walmart can do what the Flip can do. Is it easy to do?
1. Turn the knob to the picture of the film camera icon.
2. Press the shutter button to start the video capture.
3. Press the shutter button again to stop the video capture.
4. Done
Oh yeah, when I’m not using the video function, I can use it to take great quality photos. Most of the blogging Flip fanboys and fangirls are smart enough to know how to login in and write a blog post. I’m sure they are smart enough to figure out how to use a video function on a digital camera.
I use Flip and love it. Takes me 5 seconds to start shooting video of my baby (those who have little ones know how many special moments were missed for not being fast enough to capture them) and instantly show it on TV minute later for a lot of fun. I have made so many video clips with Flip (and know others who did so) that it can’t be compared to anything I used before. Comparing Flip to Cannon in a way done in the blog post is like comparing Windows Mobile and iPhone. WinMo has GPS, it has copy/paste, you can send MMS and shoot video so it beats iPhone across board, right? To me it comes to the fact that I have never made so many videos before using Flip. I also have never surfed web on the phone before iPhone or read more books before textonphone on iPhone. It’s all about small value propositions not feature overload.
I guess you’re not part of their target.
It’s perfect for less “techie” peeps who don’t know (or don’t want) to edit anymore.
It’s so simple to use!
Ooops, I meant ‘peeps who don’t know how to edit/don’t want to edit.
There is one technical aspect of the Flip Ultra, and probably the Mino, that makes it stand out a bit. It samples the lighting and adjusts the exposure (or gain or something) a number of times per second. During my first use of the Flip Ultra it did an amazing job adjusting for the strong backlight and not making the subject a siloutte. I shot a test comparing it to the Panasonic SDR-S10 and the Flip Ultra did a better job. Check out the video comparison here: http://www.degutis.com/blog/?p=10
Hi all where can i find more information about this?
I cared about the usb cable debate when I was using a CF card and had to either bring a cable or reader.. now that everything I buy has an SD card reader, I don’t even know where my cables are. Don’t forget that youtube will take almost any video from any camera and convert it w/out software (I guess you need it for the flip?)
Bought the flip for my wife and kids. It works best for them. MA when you have a wife who is constantly busting your balls about why the computer is not working or how to use anything technologically related you will understand why devices like the flip are a godsend my friend. Welcome to the real world that most of us live in. Peace.
I use a Pentax Optio S12, that records video in Divx at 640×480. I have several videos here: http://hombrelobo.com/category/hombrelobotv/
Before getting my Flip, I could shoot video on any of a number of cameras, video devices, my old 8mm vid camera. The thing is…. I didn’t.
I can tell you that probably 90% of people don’t ever use the video feature of their digital camera. (That’s unscientific research based on 10 people I know that were asked the question). The Flip is a success because of USABILITY. Just like the Palm Pilot was and the iPod is. An average person can figure it out and use it.
Most people also never edit video footage. I have years of 8MM tapes that I just transferred to DVD directly. Who has hours to sit editing. I have used editing software in the past for specific projects that require a professional finished product. Most of the time with my Flip I want to get the footage out to people quickly so the built in SW really does the job and doesn’t require any additional time. (Other than video processing time)
Here’s the selling point for me and why I recommend it to non-technical family and friends. When I returned from my vacation, even though I had already made Movie Mixes of each days footage, I took the camera to CVS and 2 hours later picked up a DVD. That’s why it’s the option I recommend to my parents. Try explaining to your parents how to shoot video on a camera, pull it off, edit it, save it and burn it to a DVD. Good luck.
The Flip definitely has it’s market and it’s not geeks who know what they’re doing.
One problem I have with my Canon SD700IS is that it saves video in motion JPEG format which is extremely inefficient. I really wish Canon would store video in something like mpeg4 or divx to get better quality and storage consumption. I was strongly considering the flip just because of the waterproof housing which is a small jacket/add-on instead of canon’s huge hard plastic housing.
I didn’t have time to read all of the comments, so forgive me if this has been said already. I have always said the same thing…I just don’t get the hype behind the Flip. I too have always instead used my Canon digital camera. Who wants to carry two devices if they don’t have to?
If the Flip did way better quality, I can potentially see…but it doesn’t.
The only real argument that is valid to me….wait for it….
When you shoot video with the flip, people think you’re actually taking video. Whereas with the Canon, a lot of times it will be mistaken for taking a picture.
My Flip review from twitter a few months ago (right before I returned it):
My Flip review, pros: built-in USB, portrait orientation / cons: uses obscure codec (3ivx), poor sw, no rechargeable btrys
Sacca: And on the built-in USB on the Flip (which I agree is awesome), I get cable free downloads from my Canon Digital Elph to your PC or Mac using one of Sandisk’s SD cards that converts into a USB stick:
http://www.engadget.com/2005/0.....b-adapter/
http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-.....B0009HTB0Y
No question that simplicity sells and the Flip’s switchblade USB is cool, but the rest of their package isn’t that great IMO.
You can poo poo it all you want but I love my Flip.
Easy, convenient and plugs directly into my computer.
How can you possibly say your Canon has better video features then the flip without actually comparing side by side video? Specs are one thing, real world performance is something else. By all standards I have seen online the Flip does a surprisingly good job at actually capturing good video. I have yet to see a camera that can do the same. David Pogue did a video probably 8-10 weeks ago comparing the Flip Ultra to a standard camcorder and the flip came out with better video quality.
http://video.on.nytimes.com/?f.....0e2be70830
I also don’t see how 640×480 resolution is lower then what most people expect from a camcorder. Most people are still buying non-HD camcorders. They are in 640×480 resolution.
Come on! “So I haven’t actually tried out the new Flip Mino.” Yet here is a comparison? How is that fair?
A few points:
The resolution is standard definition, so no, it’s not lower than most camcorders.
The format is not proprietary. It’s MPEG4 using the open source Xvid codec.
As for editing, I’ve not had any problem in iMovie. I actually prefer Final Cut though and still haven’t gotten a good workflow for editing there.
The main reason I bought the two I own though is for 3D shooting. The design is slim enough that I can get the lenses to be 2.5 inches apart something not possible on a still camera without rotating.
The company I work for was looking at camcorders and cameras with video to make property virtual tours. I suggested the Flip, telling them that while it was pretty much a one trick pony, for their purposes, it might work. And it did - it’s cheap, simple to use, converts to a compact format/uploads to a website quickly. Yes…the editing is kind of clunky, but no one was looking to do anything special. The other software and processes involved for camera or camcorder video are unnecessary - and in a business setting that means less training, less time and a higher likelihood of successful implementation.
My 5 year old grok’d the flip ultra controls in about 5 minutes. That is why it rocks. We have a similar canon model as well and she has never understood it.
When the “features” get in the way of just shooting video, something quite important is lost.
With the flip, my daughter gets right down to learning how to be a “Maker” — how to look at the world around her with an eye begins, so early, the task of examining the world in a different way.
Teaching our kids to be creators and not just consumers of, not just video, but everything, will be one of the key economic differentiators of our future.
Somehow the simplicity of the flip gets my family closer to what we want to be about — all because it has less and not more — which, on the surface violates so many of my “edge case” geek sensibilities.
you’re also leaving out framerate. that’d the kicker when you move from a canon (which i have and paid $350 for) to the flip (which i also have and got for free). i used to use the canon for video, but now i use the flip. i even recently got back from vacation where i “lugged” around both.
why?
sure, same resolution. but, double framerate — 30 vs 15. the flip wins for video because it captures information that your canon does not. period.
not to mention the video’s not in the retarded .mov format.
fairly obvious you’re not a video guy.
m3mnoch.
Could not disagree more. Flip may not be the best video recording solution in town. But it’s nice and small and dead simple to use. Trust me, there is something to be said for that.
Mike, you are probably right. I have a PowerShot SD630, which is a great point and shoot. It’s not hard to use… takes good video, etc. I got a Flip Ultra recently. I take (and post) 10x as much video now that I have the flip. Why? I have no clue… but i don’t give a damn why, I just do. I’m a mac user (and developer) and prefer iMovie 06 over 08 anyway (which does support the flip format) and editing has been a breeze for me.
If I had to guess though, maybe I take it out more because it feels pretty durable and not much to break. (The Canon SD series… you can’t say that.) I’ve carried my Flip on zip-line adventures, filmed fish in the ocean (with the waterproof case), and flew it on a kite. I guess I just never considered doing that with the Canon, even though it’s probably less expensive now days.
I got my flip just over a year ago and have used it only with an iBook G4. I have not once ever had a problem getting the video into iMovie to edit and then upload to youtube. I don’t understand how others are having such a problem with it…
Sure with a real camcorder you get nice movies but if you just want something that you can carry around in your pocket or in a small bag the Flip is the best (that is if your regular camera doesn’t take movies, like my 6yr old digital camera…)
Oh, finally someone who doesn’t think the flip is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I carry my canon powershot everywhere I go and just can’t imagine why I would want to carry another device that does less than the one I already carry.
Great write up.