Our sister publication Techcrunch UK noticed that a Location services API had been added to Google Gears. The developers behind Gears have been plotting out future API additions for a while, and those plans have included having Geo-data available to mobile app developers (see the spec here). We found out today that Google is backing up their Location API with a large effort to map out cell-phone towers and wifi hotspots, so that a user’s location can be pin-pointed more precisely.
While some cell-phones have an internal GPS, the data is inaccurate indoors and not available on all devices. The other non-GPS method for accurate location data is to use the location of cell towers. Google can store the lat and long of a particular cell tower in their database, and when their software in the future sees that cell tower on a phone, they know exactly where the phone is. To boot-strap the database, both Google and Apple have been using a company called Skyhook, who drive around pin-pointing the location of cell towers. By using this method Google bypasses the need to have deals in place with network providers for positioning data. In addition to cell-phone towers, Google is also mapping out Wifi locations to form a large rogue base station almanac, which is used for both additional accuracy in location calculations, and also to point users to the nearest available access point.
Once the database has been boot-strapped with initial data and launched to developers via an API, users of the service will further refine and improve the service by having devices submit information on towers and signal strength (along with location) back to Google. This means that over time, the service improves itself and will be able to work almost anywhere in the world, regardless of local regulations, network providers or restrictions.
It is expected that the service and associated data will be made available for free to developers using Google Gears (specifically the new Windows Mobile version). For developers of mobile applications, it means that they now have a very accurate way of not only calculating a users position, but also an easy way to pinpoint other locations as a basis for a location-based service. There is also an effort to develop and define a standard API for accessing Location data and services in the browser. As with local browser storage, Google are leading the way here by implementing first and then working with other browser developers on a standard.
We demonstrated a prototype of the location API in a mobile Gears presentation at Google I/O.
There is still work to be done though. You have to be VERY careful with permissions and privacy, and we are aware of that!
There is a lot of work going on here.
The standards bodies are getting going (from http://www.nabb...td15868029.html) and people like Aza Raskin (Mozilla) has his thoughts, including a UI: http://azarask....ion-js-library/
Exciting stuff, but it has to be done correctly.
Cheers,
Dion Almaer
Google
Gears
Ajaxian
Nick, are you drunk dude? Look what I found in the first 2 paragraphs:
- .. that Google are backing up their Location API … (Google IS backing …)
- so that a users location can be (user’s location)
- Google have been using a company called skyhook (Google HAS)
- The above links to http://www.tech...ookwireless.com btw
- Apple also have a deal with Skyhook (Apple also HAS a deal)
- Google are also mapping out wifi (Google IS also …)
I’m sure Mike is going to be impressed.
Jesus! …and all your haves should be ‘HAS’! Apple HAS a deal.. Good HAS been using a company…
re #2 “Nick’s mom”
Is it possible that you don’t know that in UK English corporate entities are referred to using a plural form? What “is” in America “are” in the UK and what Google “has” in America is what Google “have” in England.
bob wyman
Hi Mum, first of all, as you might now, I was raised on UK English. Second of all, I will have to blame Mike again for telling me to ‘post whatever you got and fix it later’.
Dion: thanks for the comment, very interesting.
@Bob Wyman
Last time I checked, TechCrunch was based in the Silicon Valley – and last time I checked, the Valley is in California, USA.
Also, Nik Cubrilovic isn’t from England (but from Australia).
“As with local browser storage, Google are leading the way here by implementing first and then working with other browser developers on a standard.”
Did you mean “creating their own de-facto standard” instead of “leading the way”? Why not work with the browser developers on creating an agreed-upon standard ahead of time instead of doing it the Microsoft way of implementing first and hoping everyone uses the standard they’ve created without external feedback?
Christopher: I think the key difference here is that Google have come out to say that they have no problems with adapting when they have done with any future standard. For eg. see Database2:
http://code.goo...ki/Database2API
Its also undoubtedly better that somebody actually goes out and implements this stuff and has people use it rather than spend years talking about it..
They need to be careful about how they market this and how they control this api.
Bob Wyman – Wrong. In the UK, companies are singular (as in, has, not have).
Nik – Great piece!
OT: The first time I used vimeo was today – it’s down right now. Unf****************e.
Can just one web2.0 service stay up for like a single day?
@Peter. Web2.0 apps are allowed because they are permanently Beta/Alpha.
OT2: and google’s video uploader is giving me a 502.
Is the internets broken on a saturday? wtf?
https://upload....deo.google.com/
No mention of the CoreLocation API already available as part of the iPhone SDK?
I cant wait until this comes out. looks great
I was just smiling. The comments are as interesting as the post …!
Christopher Finke: Nik pointed to the Database2 API. We had a session at Google I/O last week that was titled “HTML5 brought to you by Gears” (http://code.goo...o/sessions.html).
We are not looking to build out own standards. Aaron Boodman on the Gears team says it really well in “Gears and Standards” http://gearsblo...-standards.html
Ian Hickson used to sit 100m from me at Google, and we work very closely with the HTML5 community.
Also, note that “we” here isn’t even just Google. We debranded Google Gears to just “Gears” just to show how this is a community open source project. Dimitri Glazgov, who isn’t a Googler, has been working on the Database2 work for example (as well as other great Gears work).
Gears is about giving Web developers an open source way to push the Web platform forward.
Cheers,
Dion
again to be clear: Google employee, Ajaxian founder.
@4: Thanks for the clarification. Didn’t have a clue.
@Nick: It was hard reading your post right after I got out of bed today morning. I read it 3 times before getting pissed at you. My bad. Muffins for you on the counter when you get home
the best i swear
China geo’ly included?
hope so!!
Location services API was added into google spreadsheets ages ago, but only lets you MAP up to 15 rows of data. Google spreadsheets is a Enterprise product
So when I try and past in or feed in 1,000 customers says you cant map that main.
What is the point of seeing 15 customer on a map? I want to see all my 20,000.
When I try put in 20,000.. comes back and says cant put in that much data.
MS Excel supports right now 1,048,576 rows, their are a lot of users out their that are running stuff over that much data.
“Google enterprise products make your users more productive by combining the innovation and ease of use of Google’s consumer products with the features, security and support that your organization requires” http://www.goog...rise/index.html
Can anybody get hold of a sales person at Google? I tried for over 1 year now… their phone line points you back to their web site, and website makes you fill out a form that you never get a replie back from, so post a msg on their support groups and their people at google looking after dont replay back…
So i want to buy Google Geo product as we are track over 300 (5.8m geocodes a week) asset Geocodes, but looks like their no way to do it.
Google has done some amazing jobs on Google Apps, but still dont do some the basice things we need to use it.. e.g. offline with out having to buy MS Outlook, automatice distribution list administation.
@4 There is an interesting discussion on the niceties of collective nouns and usage on the British Council learn English site.
We are different.
http://www.lear...tive_nouns.html
Otherwise, thank you Google – you work will transform space into place.
I love all of these announcements about launching Large Scale Geo-Services and Location Based Cell-Phone Towers and GPS Wi-fi Hotspots.
Are all of the major Companies that build these Mobile Geo Services really building it for the benefit of its Users, or as I have heard mentioned in some quarters as a Tracking Device for either Local Advertisers or Security Services.
Are all Users so dumb that whenever they are in a busy high street, (or main for our US readers) they will have to use Geo-Services to locate their nearest Starbucks or McDonalds. Haven’t they got eyes, ears or brains?
Geo-Services could be used by Companies that know everything they need to know about any individual via their Social and Search Graph – and place hopeful relevant Local Advertising Messages on your Mobile Phones.
Maybe some Users will find these messages relevant, but there is also a danger that these local messages could turn into Mobile Spam.
Plus the Companies that set up these Geo-Services could also make a huge earner by selling most of their daily data to other Third Party Companies, including most importantly Security Services.
Imagine a future where every Mobile Phone is fitted with and using these Geo-Services and a drugs deal goes wrong at a house in Baker Street, London at 1900pm, where two people are shot dead and four gang men flee the scene.
Security Services that pay these Companies for these Geo-Services on a daily basis that track, store and keep a search history for every day in London, could then search and play back a timeline of tracking events around that location and quickly learn the identities of all four gang members.
They could then do a search history of where each individual was before the shooting and where their exact location is right now.
I am not saying that this is a bad thing, but this type of historic mobile tracking of users could also be priceless for private investigators to spy on ‘cheating spouses’ or ’sick employees’?
Maybe I have gone a little bit too far on the Big Brother or Minority Report scenario for Geo-Services. But as Dion stated right at the beginning of this post, Companies must get it right at the beginning, or risk losing the confidence of all Mobile Users.
Not everyone in the U.S. visits Star$s and MickeyD’s. Over 10 years, I may have averaged less than twice per year. Unlike your hamlets, in Texas we tend to graze over a 40 mile pasture for new locations of Chicago Hot Dogs, Philly Steak Sandwiches, Gyros, etc. We leave following the same paths to same palces to our bovines. As far as geo-tracking it’s convienent for family or friends to check to see where we are while traveling long distances. As far as cellular tracking, give some though to how e911 works; you are being tracked all the time. It’s my experience the people that need LBS the most, are the ones least able to manage it; hence Google and Live 411.
The above essay shows that big powers are focusing on location based services. they will use these service directly and indirectly in their future services and products. So a lot of their needs for future can be predicted and relevant companies can formed to sell them in future.
Problems the service will have:
A lot of feature can be added to this service. this service need mathematical modulation and other mathematical tools can be added to make this service more accurate.
Users will be demanding location of other static and non-static objects right after they will be offered this service.
I’m a little stunned by the inaccuracy of parts of this article, which can be readily corrected through public sources, widely discussed.
Skyhook Wireless’s primary business model to date has been to perform regular scans in hundreds of cities of Wi-Fi networks. Each network has identifying broadcast information that, paired with a high-power GPS receiver on board their wardriving vehicles, allows them to create essentially spatially specific maps of signal strength from unique transmitters. They use their own homegrown algorithms to then take a scan from a device, like an iPhone, and produce their estimate as to the location. In my testing, Skyhook has performed extremely well.
Skyhook may also be “pinpointing” cellular base stations, not towers, and that might be part of their model, but Apple’s Steve Jobs stated bluntly from the keynote stage in January 2008 that the iPhone was combining cell tower triangulation information from Google and Wi-Fi location information from Skyhook. So it wasn’t really any secret.
Skyhook has a relationship with Sirf, the leading GPS chipmaker, for integration with their platform. They also have no cell phone integration besides the iPhone (and that’s not at the carrier level, but an application level controlled by Apple), so they’re not in a position to use cell tower information that’s often hidden by phones below the abstraction layer available to even smartphones’ SDK or platform for third-party development. Having cell base station information wouldn’t necessary translate to Skyhook being able to pair that with cell information from the phone. (Under Android, it likely would, however.)
The exposure of this information to developers is very cool, and you may have more information than has been publicly discussed, but, sheesh. The basic facts are pretty straightforward and usual for context, especially if this changes the landscape.
Great action for future Geo services.
Whats the big deal about web 2.0? I fail to understand the buzz about it.
I haven’t found in the specifications nothing about the need of user’s permission to acquire his/her location. Or it is supposed to be solved by the phone OS (the annoying questions like “the application wants to use Internet connection. Allow it?”)?
For the usual phone apps there are practices how to control it (eg. signing the applications), but in the browser?
I am personally big fan of geo enhanced browsing (and I bet on it currently as a entrepreneur – we do something like this in Locify – expose the location data of the user to the web developers on regular java phone). But there are really not just technical issues to solve.
David Cizek
http://www.locify.com
This is great.
Very good article, i would like to put it into my page, can I ??
Great article
very cool
good
Firefox always rocks…!!!
Great action for future Geo services.
tnx you good!
Great article
Great post, thanks!
Great! Google is Google!
Great post.
very nice
thanks for this poste