Comments on: Why CBS Bought CNET, And Not The Other Way Around http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/ Startup and Technology News Fri, 05 Sep 2008 19:54:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: CBS Finishes Acquisition Of CNET; Quincy Smith Addresses The Troops http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2392373 CBS Finishes Acquisition Of CNET; Quincy Smith Addresses The Troops Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:22:31 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2392373 [...] announced the closing of its acquisition of CNET today. The deal, first announced last month, will bring CNET under the control of Quincy Smith’s CBS Interactive [...] [...] announced the closing of its acquisition of CNET today. The deal, first announced last month, will bring CNET under the control of Quincy Smith’s CBS Interactive [...]

]]> By: Dan Blank: Publishing, Innovation & the Web » Blog Archive » News of the Week 5/27/08 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2330586 Dan Blank: Publishing, Innovation & the Web » Blog Archive » News of the Week 5/27/08 Tue, 27 May 2008 12:37:40 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2330586 [...] Why CBS Bought CNET, And Not The Other Way Around "Whatever the cause, or causes, CNET failed to disrupt the old guard, and will find itself to be a footnote in Internet history rather than the headline it should have been." [...] [...] Why CBS Bought CNET, And Not The Other Way Around "Whatever the cause, or causes, CNET failed to disrupt the old guard, and will find itself to be a footnote in Internet history rather than the headline it should have been." [...]

]]> By: CBS Acquires CNET « Geisenblog http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2313767 CBS Acquires CNET « Geisenblog Tue, 20 May 2008 22:27:00 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2313767 [...] but dissociated components) and CNET’s shareholders made out pretty well. There was some grumbling from expected sources, but I haven’t seen anyone make a compelling case for why this was a [...] [...] but dissociated components) and CNET’s shareholders made out pretty well. There was some grumbling from expected sources, but I haven’t seen anyone make a compelling case for why this was a [...]

]]> By: TFO 2.0 » Archive du blog » CBS Centralizes Its Superdistribution of Videos on the Web http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2312710 TFO 2.0 » Archive du blog » CBS Centralizes Its Superdistribution of Videos on the Web Tue, 20 May 2008 16:29:52 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2312710 [...] has been one of the most promiscuous media companies out there. And no, I am not talking about its $1.8 billion acquisition of CNET (which does have some video assets). Rather, CBS has taken a strategy of superdistribution when it [...] [...] has been one of the most promiscuous media companies out there. And no, I am not talking about its $1.8 billion acquisition of CNET (which does have some video assets). Rather, CBS has taken a strategy of superdistribution when it [...]

]]> By: Go Big Always - What CNET could have been: an insiders view http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2308761 Go Big Always - What CNET could have been: an insiders view Mon, 19 May 2008 13:09:56 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2308761 [...] week’s CBS acquisition of CNET saddened me for a number of reasons. I was VP Marketing there from 1999-2001 and still feel a strong personal [...] [...] week’s CBS acquisition of CNET saddened me for a number of reasons. I was VP Marketing there from 1999-2001 and still feel a strong personal [...]

]]> By: MyWidowMaker http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2307753 MyWidowMaker Mon, 19 May 2008 02:09:22 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2307753 Cbs now has a beachfront footprint in the sands of our digital universe. Kids.com, Help.com, Computers.com, Download.com, Online.com, TV.com, Upload.com, News.com, Search.com, Com.com, Builder.com, Gaming.com, Shopper.com, Marketplace.com, Updates.com, Store.com, Buying.com, Chat.com, Welcome.com, Browser.com, Shareware.com, Freeware.com, Auctions.com, Labs.com, Community.com, Silicon.com, Radio.com, mp3.com, Future.com, Events.com, Tunes.com. Cbs now has a beachfront footprint in the sands of our digital universe.
Kids.com, Help.com, Computers.com, Download.com, Online.com, TV.com, Upload.com, News.com, Search.com, Com.com, Builder.com, Gaming.com, Shopper.com, Marketplace.com, Updates.com, Store.com, Buying.com, Chat.com, Welcome.com, Browser.com, Shareware.com, Freeware.com, Auctions.com, Labs.com, Community.com, Silicon.com, Radio.com, mp3.com, Future.com, Events.com, Tunes.com.

]]> By: MyWidowMaker http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2307726 MyWidowMaker Mon, 19 May 2008 01:40:16 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2307726 CBS got some Priceless, strategic domain names that are ready to bust out mainstream style. Time for cbs to put the newscorp style spin on there new network of common sense keyphrase self propelled web properties. Not the best portfolio but definitely in the top 5 all time greatest. This portfolio does have some meat and potatoes on it. It only takes one premium domain channel to blow up and wella CBS is now on the mainstream map. Rupert did it with one keyphrase personalized domain name. Cbs now has a arsenal of premium domain channels that are very easy to embed in the minds of the masses. At least they wont be peddling a domain name like hulu. Strategic keyphrase domain names are the most valuable properties on the planet. question: Where would myspace.com be if it was called bebo.com or hulu.com. I remember how much i was forced to swallow the name yahoo when it came out. The properties acquired are on the tip of the tongues and minds and just need to be commercialized. Extreme Potential. The conceptualist Sahar shared some thoughts on the subject. http://www.conceptualist.com/2008/05/15/cnets-acquisition-solid-business-extreme-potential/ CBS got some Priceless, strategic domain names that are ready to bust out mainstream style. Time for cbs to put the newscorp style spin on there new network of common sense keyphrase self propelled web properties. Not the best portfolio but definitely in the top 5 all time greatest. This portfolio does have some meat and potatoes on it. It only takes one premium domain channel to blow up and wella CBS is now on the mainstream map. Rupert did it with one keyphrase personalized domain name. Cbs now has a arsenal of premium domain channels that are very easy to embed in the minds of the masses. At least they wont be peddling a domain name like hulu. Strategic keyphrase domain names are the most valuable properties on the planet. question: Where would myspace.com be if it was called bebo.com or hulu.com. I remember how much i was forced to swallow the name yahoo when it came out. The properties acquired are on the tip of the tongues and minds and just need to be commercialized. Extreme Potential. The conceptualist Sahar shared some thoughts on the subject.
http://www.conceptualist.com/2.....potential/

]]> By: Wired compra Ars Technica y la CBS a Cnet http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2306634 Wired compra Ars Technica y la CBS a Cnet Sun, 18 May 2008 16:44:42 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2306634 [...] Cnet es el ejemplo de la web 1.0 y Ars Technica el ejemplo de la web 2.0, y tras esta idea quiero entender el sentido de la compra de la CBS, y si ese dinero no lo debería haber invertido en comprar alguna de las redes de blogs existentes [...] [...] Cnet es el ejemplo de la web 1.0 y Ars Technica el ejemplo de la web 2.0, y tras esta idea quiero entender el sentido de la compra de la CBS, y si ese dinero no lo debería haber invertido en comprar alguna de las redes de blogs existentes [...]

]]> By: Reader http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305947 Reader Sun, 18 May 2008 11:49:04 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305947 @35 and @40: Thank you for referring ReadWriteWeb's article: CBS Pays $1.8 Billion for CNet: CNet Shows How It's Done http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/cbs_buys_cnet.php @35 and @40: Thank you for referring ReadWriteWeb’s article:

CBS Pays $1.8 Billion for CNet: CNet Shows How It’s Done
http://www.readwriteweb.com/ar.....s_cnet.php

]]> By: SmashCinema.com http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305452 SmashCinema.com Sun, 18 May 2008 07:16:35 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305452 wWoWw I thought it would end up being the other way around. Matters how you see it i guess. Maybe C|Net wasn't able to keep up. :( ============================================== www.SmashCinema.com ============================================== free online movies wWoWw I thought it would end up being the other way around. Matters how you see it i guess. Maybe C|Net wasn’t able to keep up. :(

==============================================
http://www.SmashCinema.com
==============================================
free online movies

]]> By: CBS Centralizes Its Superdistribution of Videos on the Web http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305410 CBS Centralizes Its Superdistribution of Videos on the Web Sun, 18 May 2008 06:32:31 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2305410 [...] has been one of the most promiscuous media companies out there. And no, I am not talking about its $1.8 billion acquisition of CNET (which does have some video assets). Rather, CBS has taken a strategy of superdistribution when it [...] [...] has been one of the most promiscuous media companies out there. And no, I am not talking about its $1.8 billion acquisition of CNET (which does have some video assets). Rather, CBS has taken a strategy of superdistribution when it [...]

]]> By: leolambertini.com » Links for May 17, 2008: Happy Internet Day! http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2303418 leolambertini.com » Links for May 17, 2008: Happy Internet Day! Sat, 17 May 2008 12:42:33 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2303418 [...] - Why CBS Bought CNET, And Not The Other Way Around (TechCrunch) [...] [...] - Why CBS Bought CNET, And Not The Other Way Around (TechCrunch) [...]

]]> By: Alex Hammer http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301484 Alex Hammer Fri, 16 May 2008 18:38:21 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301484 Arrington's ability (range) to process information and put it in context is staggering (post after post after post). That said, I do not totally agree with his basic premise on the inefficacy of CNET (a major TechCrunch competitor). Certainly, market cap is a powerful and proper metric, and as the expression says, "the numbers don't lie". But you have to look at the landscape. Yes, Amazon is an exception, but most cap darlings of 1999 in our overall (Internet etc.) space don't exist. That's why they call it the dot.com BUST. Within that context, being alive at all, and being purchased by a major media player like CBS (let's not debate how major they are, that's a tangential discussion) is a win. Not a loss. Not a staggering win, but a win nonetheless. The more interesting issue, for me (arises in my mind) is what TechCrunch may do in response. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see TechCrunch announce a significant round of financing, start roll up purchases, etc. Arrington’s ability (range) to process information and put it in context is staggering (post after post after post). That said, I do not totally agree with his basic premise on the inefficacy of CNET (a major TechCrunch competitor). Certainly, market cap is a powerful and proper metric, and as the expression says, “the numbers don’t lie”. But you have to look at the landscape. Yes, Amazon is an exception, but most cap darlings of 1999 in our overall (Internet etc.) space don’t exist. That’s why they call it the dot.com BUST. Within that context, being alive at all, and being purchased by a major media player like CBS (let’s not debate how major they are, that’s a tangential discussion) is a win. Not a loss. Not a staggering win, but a win nonetheless. The more interesting issue, for me (arises in my mind) is what TechCrunch may do in response. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see TechCrunch announce a significant round of financing, start roll up purchases, etc.

]]> By: Andrew Baron http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301227 Andrew Baron Fri, 16 May 2008 16:12:33 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301227 No innovation or foresight here. No innovation or foresight here.

]]> By: Incremental Blogger » Blog Archive » Why CNet is a good match for CBS http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301149 Incremental Blogger » Blog Archive » Why CNet is a good match for CBS Fri, 16 May 2008 15:22:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301149 [...] @Michael Arrignton: The reason CNet didn’t explode into an even larger business is not because of its acquisition strategy. It was because of its economic model, quite visible in its advertising. [...] [...] @Michael Arrignton: The reason CNet didn’t explode into an even larger business is not because of its acquisition strategy. It was because of its economic model, quite visible in its advertising. [...]

]]> By: Thomas http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301127 Thomas Fri, 16 May 2008 15:09:51 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301127 Scott K, I think CBS having news.com is the biggest irony of them all considering what has happened with CBS' news organization over the last decade! "News.com! Starrying Your Favorite Blogger -- Katie Couric! We're so Internety!" Scott K, I think CBS having news.com is the biggest irony of them all considering what has happened with CBS’ news organization over the last decade! “News.com! Starrying Your Favorite Blogger — Katie Couric! We’re so Internety!”

]]> By: Thomas http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301122 Thomas Fri, 16 May 2008 15:07:04 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301122 Michael, thanks for pointing out CNet's plain ol' fashioned value destruction. However, value destruction in the valley is no big deal. No one is accountable for their strategic misteps here. Funny, in a town that likes to use words like "strategy" and "innovation" it's interesting to see how little of it there really is. Michael, thanks for pointing out CNet’s plain ol’ fashioned value destruction. However, value destruction in the valley is no big deal. No one is accountable for their strategic misteps here. Funny, in a town that likes to use words like “strategy” and “innovation” it’s interesting to see how little of it there really is.

]]> By: Hell is No Exit Strategy http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301112 Hell is No Exit Strategy Fri, 16 May 2008 14:58:58 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2301112 Mike, this is really about your exit strategy being sold. Rumor has it just a few days before your rant about rolling up the blogosphere and killing CNET you were at headquarters trying to sell TechCrunch to them for $20 million to $30 million or so. Now you're obviously pissed because your most likely buyer is now owned by CBS. You are the parsley on the steak of irony, dude. Mike, this is really about your exit strategy being sold. Rumor has it just a few days before your rant about rolling up the blogosphere and killing CNET you were at headquarters trying to sell TechCrunch to them for $20 million to $30 million or so. Now you’re obviously pissed because your most likely buyer is now owned by CBS. You are the parsley on the steak of irony, dude.

]]> By: BillGates http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300897 BillGates Fri, 16 May 2008 12:42:08 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300897 you guys don't get the big game, just hang around in sub $3m revenue land scratching out breakeven on $1 cpms at best. big media wins always and little 'web 2.0' land is just noise and r&d - the reality is that TechCrunch is meaningless to marketers and always will be. comparing to CNET.com is laughable in every measure, traffic, revenue, cpms, reach, brand... blah blah.. you guys don’t get the big game, just hang around in sub $3m revenue land scratching out breakeven on $1 cpms at best. big media wins always and little ‘web 2.0′ land is just noise and r&d - the reality is that TechCrunch is meaningless to marketers and always will be. comparing to CNET.com is laughable in every measure, traffic, revenue, cpms, reach, brand… blah blah..

]]> By: crybaby, pathetic http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300709 crybaby, pathetic Fri, 16 May 2008 10:30:46 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300709 Crybaby... pathetic... among the proper words used to describe your attempt at putting down a good move from Cnet. Posts like this make blogging a lesser job than real journalism. I'm no longer reading this "publication", end of story Crybaby… pathetic… among the proper words used to describe your attempt at putting down a good move from Cnet.

Posts like this make blogging a lesser job than real journalism.

I’m no longer reading this “publication”, end of story

]]> By: alpha http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300125 alpha Fri, 16 May 2008 03:34:45 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300125 I used to be part of a community called TvTome, it had an actual "neighborhood" feel. Than, three years ago, CNet bought it and it's new site, tv.com, was and still is ugly and depressing. Now CNet has gotten it's just desserts :) I used to be part of a community called TvTome, it had an actual “neighborhood” feel. Than, three years ago, CNet bought it and it’s new site, tv.com, was and still is ugly and depressing. Now CNet has gotten it’s just desserts :)

]]> By: Anthony Yung http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300078 Anthony Yung Fri, 16 May 2008 03:02:17 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300078 In 1999, CNET paid $20 million to buy Nordby aka PrivateWire. The same unit was sold to FinancialContent for $1 million in 2003. In 1999, CNET paid $20 million to buy Nordby aka PrivateWire. The same unit was sold to FinancialContent for $1 million in 2003.

]]> By: sean http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300023 sean Fri, 16 May 2008 02:26:01 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2300023 hope this will not affact some of the open source projects from cnet hope this will not affact some of the open source projects from cnet

]]> By: WirelessProviders.info http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2299953 WirelessProviders.info Fri, 16 May 2008 01:32:59 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2299953 I think Martin's analysis of Plaxo VS. BEBO VS. CNET acquisition prices is a very good indicator of how skewed the market is. CNET could have been a launching platform for a number of web services. As far as the valuation going from $12B pre-bubble to $2B post bubble. Companies weren't valued at logical levels. CNET network isn't just a news site. It's a true web based media company. They have the ability to promote their own properties heavily within their own network. CNET CPM actually sells for far more than say a dejour web 2.0 social site. Facebook/Myspace. But they still could target and promote their own new verticals instead of running lower priced ads that are performing(selling) poorly. Look at kids.com. It's a parked page that gets more than 50,000 uniques (type in traffic) a month. (According to compete.com - my guess is that this number is low) You may think that doesn't represent a large audience, but in terms of scaling quickly and not having to spend a fortune to enter the market place and it's huge. Chat.com is another example. They receive more than 60,000 uniques of type in traffic a month. It's a re-direct. CreditCards.com because the market leader in credit card application/ customer acquisition in large part due to the domain and aggressive marketing. When you take a category killing domain (IE: creditcards.com) and put SEO, SEM and affiliate marketing behind it, it's a receipe for success. CreditCards.com financials: "For the first nine months of 2007, CreditCards.com reported net income of $2.3 million on revenue of $44.6 million, compared with net income of $15.2 million on sales of $29.9 million for the year-ago period." The problem is that CNET didn't execute well. And it's a damn shame. But I suppose it's easier to just park a site, or have it redirect to your main property. It makes more sense to create a very well executed photo-sharing tool like allyoucanupload.com but not call it upload.com or uploads.com when you own both domains. I think Martin’s analysis of Plaxo VS. BEBO VS. CNET acquisition prices is a very good indicator of how skewed the market is. CNET could have been a launching platform for a number of web services. As far as the valuation going from $12B pre-bubble to $2B post bubble. Companies weren’t valued at logical levels. CNET network isn’t just a news site. It’s a true web based media company. They have the ability to promote their own properties heavily within their own network. CNET CPM actually sells for far more than say a dejour web 2.0 social site. Facebook/Myspace. But they still could target and promote their own new verticals instead of running lower priced ads that are performing(selling) poorly.

Look at kids.com. It’s a parked page that gets more than 50,000 uniques (type in traffic) a month. (According to compete.com - my guess is that this number is low) You may think that doesn’t represent a large audience, but in terms of scaling quickly and not having to spend a fortune to enter the market place and it’s huge. Chat.com is another example. They receive more than 60,000 uniques of type in traffic a month. It’s a re-direct. CreditCards.com because the market leader in credit card application/ customer acquisition in large part due to the domain and aggressive marketing.

When you take a category killing domain (IE: creditcards.com) and put SEO, SEM and affiliate marketing behind it, it’s a receipe for success. CreditCards.com financials: “For the first nine months of 2007, CreditCards.com reported net income of $2.3 million on revenue of $44.6 million, compared with net income of $15.2 million on sales of $29.9 million for the year-ago period.”

The problem is that CNET didn’t execute well. And it’s a damn shame. But I suppose it’s easier to just park a site, or have it redirect to your main property.
It makes more sense to create a very well executed photo-sharing tool like
allyoucanupload.com but not call it upload.com or uploads.com when you own both domains.

]]> By: arrington haterade http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2299814 arrington haterade Thu, 15 May 2008 23:54:14 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/05/15/why-cbs-bought-cnet-and-not-the-other-way-around/#comment-2299814 Mogilny -- haha nice. Extincted. Obviously all you haters are of the same breed. Mogilny — haha nice. Extincted. Obviously all you haters are of the same breed.

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