America, or shoud I say Americans, are dumb and can’t be educated enough to get the skills that foreign workers possess and American firms need.

Foreign workers need America because even though they are superior in intellect, they can’t seem to have an economy in their superior intellect home countries where they can get better jobs than those in America.

How does hiring more foreign workers result in the hiring of more Americans? Where are these jobs created? At the Wal-Mart or MacDonalds next to the High Tech firm? Or maybe more janitors to clean the bigger offices used to employ all the foreigners? But wait, MacDonald’s and the cleaning services can’t get Americans either, so they hire illegal aliens.

Of course European H-1B’s don’t want to go home after being paid in US Dollars since that money is almost worthless when exchanged for the Euro.

The argument that American companies need foreigner workers to compete globally is not really a good argument, because what is an American company? A company located in America owned by a foreinger with foreign workers? I guess, but many times the only “jobs” lost are those that foreign workers hold anyway. So its not like US Citizens are losing those jobs.

The big question will be what will the world do when even Indians and Chinese become too expensive to hire?

The best part is that once here, the visa-holders do work their way into the system…and then hire their countrymen and fellow grads from IIT - just desserts!

Let me tell you who corporations are not as keen to hire into IT anymore: white women, African Americans, and sometimes…even white males. Talk about shooting oneself in the foot!

And here’s an interesting story on some H1-B hanky panky:
——————————–
DoJ settles H-1B job ad case for $45,000

May 02, 2008 (Computerworld) A Pittsburgh-based computer consulting company that advertised for H-1B visa holders only is paying $45,000 in civil penalties to settle allegations that it discriminated against U.S. citizens, the U.S. Department of Justice said Thursday.

The company, iGate Mastech Inc., placed 30 job announcements between May and June of 2006 “for computer programmers that expressed favored H-1B visa holders to the exclusion of U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents, and other legal U.S. workers,” the DoJ said in a statement.

A complaint against iGate Mastech was filed by the Programmers Guild in 2006. It was one of dozens of complaints lodged by the Summit, NJ. against various companies.

John Miano, who founded the guild, said the DoJ’s announcement was “is probably the most visible result” of its campaign against companies that discriminate against U.S. workers “in favor of cheap H-1B workers,” he said in a statement.

One job advertisement for a Java developer on the job board Dice by iGate Mastech said “Only H-1s Apply, and should be willing to transfer H - 1 B.”

“The problem of companies only looking for H-1B workers is a serious one,” said Miano. “We are only scratching the surface right now with the companies that are brazen enough to put out ads like these.”

Full article:
http://www.computerworld.com/a.....Id=9081898

Today there just are not news reporters who are representing the people.
The article above is just for entertainment; there is not a mention of what really is going on here.
Corporatism might be the problem. The corporations are going to Washington and telling the story (big lie) about the shortages of engineers.
Our country is being taken apart piece by piece by Corporate employees (CEO’s on down).
They are looking for the next quarter, and if it means bringing is slave wage folks (H1B) to displace American’s, or moving operations to other slave countries, so be it.

I’m not looking to start a debate, since this is hardly the best environment for it, so this is my last post.

However, I have to mention 1 thing regarding your statement above: “I know of fresh Berkeley and Stanford physics PhDs that can’t find jobs”.

I _am_ in a similar department at Stanford (not physics though). During the last 5 years, there were _absolutely no_ cases of PhD’s who did not have at least 2 job offers after graduation (either in academia or in industry), even the ones with the lightest thesis and research during grad school.

Yes, that’s true, the typical industry salaries for my department are in the range of 100K/year and I know people who thought that they were far too pretious to put up 8 hrs/day for less than 200K. Maybe that’s the case of your physics phd friends …

Not talking about ME. (With regards to a fresh physics PhD)

Go to the American Institute of Physics website aip dot org and look around regarding the federal budget cuts which are wrecking havoc at the national labs (LLNL and LANL had MASSIVE layoffs) along with SLAC.

The problem is that EVERYONE (or a LOT of people) simply ASSUME that we have scientific and engineering labor shortages when the EXACT OPPOSITE is the case.

The OBVIOUS (which won’t be done) is to start TRACKING peoples career (or lack thereof). The few studies definitely leave the impression that an IT, engineering or science career tends to be short lived.

The physics job market is fairly specialized but if you take all the physics jobs posted on the AIP website (which is probably were most physics jobs are going to be posted) then we have approximately 320. We will be graduating over 1500 physics PhDs in the U.S. this year.

Oh

And by the way

Take that “second tier university” theory and toss it in the garbage can. I know of fresh Berkeley and Stanford physics PhDs that can’t find jobs

Might be a good idea to restrict PhDs to the top 10 universities.

Compared to the U.S. ??

Absolutely

@133 (lol) so if you want the jobs to goto china and india (3rd world countries according to you), than why are you complaining about off-shoring??

Offshoring is inevitable if the work can be done cheaper somewhere else but then we don’t go around importing auto workers on an H1B program. Everyone knows that a GLUT of unemployed auto workers exist and young Americans don’t try to get into manufacturing.

The biggest con job in employment is the gobbledygook that IT is fundamental science and engineering when (the vast majority of it) no more than any other commercial endeavor. Americans are going to have to find SOMETHING ELSE besides IT to contribute to the global economy. Auto workers moved into IT. IT workers are going to have to move into ???

Not sure what that ??? is going to be. I recommend to young Americans law and medicine which might be somewhat safer. Medicine is likely to be a better bet than law as we are having an increase in older Americans that will need health care.

Not to feed the troll, but have you ever thought that your inability to find a job as a “fresh PhD in physics” (probably from a second tier university, judging by your expressed frustrations) might have more to do with your attitude and less with the H1B’s that you are blaming for everything? And, for logic’s sake, come with arguments, not only frustrations.

so if you want the jobs to goto china and india (3rd world countries according to you), than why are you complaining about off-shoring??

Somewhat accurate.

But the rich want it both ways the political stability (which might start coming into doubt) along with CHEAP foreign labor.

@131 (lol) if its too scared to compete globally then you might even hear a women in india taken your Big Mac order from drive thru….. reducing local competition will only result in companies off-shoring to other countries to find cheaper and quality work….

Unlikely an Indian women is going to be on an H1B working at Mcdonalds.

Take the jobs to the third world (stop importing foreign labor and GET OUT of the US) before making the U.S. into the third world.

Techcrunch should have a comment reputation ranking system.

Hardly Xenophobic at all.

Pretty sure that I have traveled more of the world than you. And don’t want to give you the bad news but Americans (more aptly described the government) isn’t very popular in many if not most areas of the planet.

Come on now.

You really don’t believe that we are in Iraq to give them democracy. If America would just come out and tell the truth being that Bush had a personal grudge against Saddam (Someone came after my Dad and I have one big military machine to take care of it) and we want to plunder Iraq out of the oil then the rest of the planet would hold us in more respect than contempt.

We bring H1Bs in simply to plunder. That is the way it is. We want real low cost labor because the rich don’t want a middle class. Now, If you want to call me xenophobic then fine but don’t go around and peddle the garbage that America is the land of opportunity for all.

@127 (Frank) - Nigamanth is correct. If politicians listen to the voices of those like hoapres, America is screwed.

America is probably screwed (at least for the short term) because we have been plundering the rest of the planet for the past couple of decades. Come on now, you really think it is a good thing when (or so it appears) that America TAKES, TAKES, TAKES. The Chinese make most of our goods. We take all the Arabs oil because we don’t want to use OUR resources and too lazy to go out and develop alternative energy resources. (Although that is starting to change). We reward dysfunctionals (or at least in my opinion) rap singers, put them on Dr. Phil, etc. and treat functional productive members of society in contempt. (An elementary school teacher in America is low paid and without status. In Germany, An elementary school teacher is highly educated and in esteem). CEOs make millions a year and a fresh PhD in physics can’t find a job.

America is screwed but it isn’t because of people like me.

@127( Frank) - Frankly, we need high-tech workers who can give us an edge in the global economy, keep costs down, and prevent companies from moving their entire operations offshore.

Ain’t going to happen with the powers that be.

H1Bs are used to assist in the offshoring process. America is likely to wake up one day realizing that it lost a good part of its science and engineering base.

More are aware of it than you might think.

@106 (Gujral) - I am on a H1B visa and what most citizens do not know that a Visa holder can stay and work for a maximum of 6 years in the US after which I am supposed to leave the country. But the IRS collects Social Security from me every month from my paycheck. To be eligible for Social Security I need to have worked in the US for 10 years. Now, please explain that when immigration laws prevent me from working more than 6 years, why am I paying Social Security. I am happy to pay any and all the taxes as I enjoy the American lifestyle and hence I pay my taxes. But I can never recoup my Social Security contributions!

This may sound cruel but not meant to be but …

America (or better phrased the propaganda) LIED.

America (defined as the people who run it) are looking for wage slaves and if YOU (referred mostly to Indian H1Bs) are STUPID enough to fall for it then tough luck.

We really do intend to stick 12 H1Bs in a 1BR apartment and if you don’t like living in third world conditions then tough luck.

@106 (Gujral) - And btw, a lot of immigrants I know (Indian and Chinese) are so fed up with the immigration system debacle that they have moved back to their home countries. In local media in India its being hailed as ‘reverse brain drain’ as some of the most talented technical and business executives are now engineering innovative start-ups which they would have otherwise done in the Bay Area or elsewhere in the US. This is going to hurt US in the long run.

And don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

The smarter Indians are staying HOME and America is getting the rejects that can’t get a job in India. Forget the argument about “innovative start ups” as most of those were started by Americans.

GO BACK TO INDIA and tell your COMPATRIOTS NOT to come to America.

I am on a H1B visa and what most citizens do not know that a Visa holder can stay and work for a maximum of 6 years in the US after which I am supposed to leave the country. But the IRS collects Social Security from me every month from my paycheck. To be eligible for Social Security I need to have worked in the US for 10 years. Now, please explain that when immigration laws prevent me from working more than 6 years, why am I paying Social Security. I am happy to pay any and all the taxes as I enjoy the American lifestyle and hence I pay my taxes. But I can never recoup my Social Security contributions!

And btw, a lot of immigrants I know (Indian and Chinese) are so fed up with the immigration system debacle that they have moved back to their home countries. In local media in India its being hailed as ‘reverse brain drain’ as some of the most talented technical and business executives are now engineering innovative start-ups which they would have otherwise done in the Bay Area or elsewhere in the US. This is going to hurt US in the long run.