April 17, 2008

Yahoo Puts All The Chips On The Table. Time For Somebody To Fold.

Michael Arrington

59 comments »

The WSJ, Yahoo’s unofficial partner for information leaks over the last couple of months, is reporting that “people familiar with the matter” (i.e. Yahoo) say that Yahoo and Google have completed a preliminary test of the trial deal to outsource Google ads to Yahoo search queries announced last week. This “test run of the test run” yielded “positive results” (although here’s an interesting theory that Yahoo can basically make those results say anything they want).

What’s the translation? It means that Yahoo is hyping its last (barely) credible alternative to Microsoft - a full outsourcing of search marketing to Google to boost revenues and shareholder value.

Citigroup analyst Mark Mahaney previously said that a Yahoo-Google search deal could boost cash flows by 25%. Experts we talked to estimated that could boost Yahoo’s market valuation by $7 billion or so, less than half the premium Microsoft offered on February 1.

That Mahaney estimate of increased cash flow from a Yahoo-Google deal is now “more than $1 billion a year,” a 50% gain in cash flow from 2007. That puts the offers roughly on par, give or take a few billion. And it gives Yahoo a potentially viable alternative to the Microsoft deal.

Except, not really. Everyone, even Yahoo, realizes that a Google search deal is a slow but certain death for the company, even in the unlikely scenario of government approval. Those cash flow boosts are based on current traffic, but its very likely that Yahoo would see a gradual decline in search volume if they were to outsource to Google (as has happened with AOL, which moved to Google search in 2002 and has dropped from 30% to less than 5% market share). Expect Yahoo to take the same hit over time.

But Yahoo has played the crazy card perfectly to date, suggesting that any alternative to Microsoft, even a slow suicide at the hands of Google, is a preferable outcome. And Microsoft must acquire Yahoo to ensure their long term viability. Further, while losing the Yahoo deal may be something Microsoft can live with, losing Yahoo to Google is not an option (Mahaney says that a full Yahoo outsourcing deal to Google would be the worst case scenario for Microsoft).

Both companies need the deal to happen. Yahoo is screaming “do you dare me!?” and so far Microsoft is saying “sure.” But Yahoo isn’t really crazy, and Microsoft needs this deal more than they let on. Both companies have everything to lose, and someone is going to fold. Yahoo announces Q1 earnings on April 22. I’m sticking with my prediction of a negotiated deal in the near term.

Meanwhile, Google is the clear winner from this whole episode. They either get a huge win (Yahoo search) or a slightly smaller win (their biggest competitor acquired and mired in merger logistics for a year or more).

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Trackbacks/Pings (Trackback URL)

  1. Yahoo/Google Ad Deal Closer? - Search Marketing Blog from Cincinnati, Ohio
  2. TechCrunch Japanese アーカイブ » ヤフーは有り金残らず賭けた―いよいよどちらかが下りるときだ
  3. Yahoo e Google insieme contro Microsoft? - Appunti Digitali
  4. Do Or Die Week For Yahoo
  5. Yahoo Q1 Earnings Released, Blows Through Expectations
  6. Knowledge Links!!!
  7. Will The Microsoft Hammer Fall This Week?
  8. Interview With Citi Analyst Mark Mahaney On Yahoo/Microsoft/Google
  9. TalkCrunch » Blog Archive » Interview With Citi Analyst Mark Mahaney On Yahoo/Microsoft/Google

Comments

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  1. Kevin

    This entire ordeal has turned me into a tremendous MS Fanboy, and starting to make me actually hate on google.

  2. YDrive

    Best of luck.. am sure Y! will continue to surprise the world… :-)

  3. addnr

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  4. Michael Arrington

    YDrive - or at least its stockholders.

  5. deb

    yahoo is still fighting!!!

  6. Phillip Molly Malone

    Wow, Catty! “The WSJ, Yahoo’s unofficial partner for information leaks”. Are you the only person that companies can leak to now?
    ;-)
    Molly

  7. Tyler Wright

    Well written and well covered. I dig true and meaty and relevant gossip.

  8. Michael Arrington

    If you want a more general explanation of what’s going to happen, see the picture of my dog Laguna below with a yahoo football. Think of Laguna as Microsoft, or possibly Google, depending on how this turns out.

  9. Darren

    lol nice dog. google can’t win this so the dog is MS.

    The thing I don’t get is why the board of yahoo are letting their egos get in the way. I persume they see it as failure to be bought out. They are looking out for themselves not their shareholders.

    By destroying Yahoo they are destory their own work.

    Just do the deal and let yahoo become the web facing side of MS and get even more exposure.

  10. YDrive

    Michael Arrington - or its stockholders managing Y! :-o

  11. Arona

    Why is Yahoo running away from one of the most successful companies ever created??

    Look, most internet companies are a total mess, organizational and ideas wise. Yahoo is no exception.

    the fact that they are running from this deal indicates to me that they are too focused on their engineering side, and not focused on their marketing and business side.

    C’mon Yahoo, join with Microsoft and make something out of it. Without it, I’m afraid that outside of Japan at least you are going to be like Lycos, Excite and the host of other micro-portals that feed from the scraps.

  12. 113.com

    @11 - they aren’t really running away from the deal… what they’re doing is just another way to say, i’m here, make an offer (or rather, make a better offer..) and that’s not unreasonable… :P

  13. kuldeep

    But, Yahoo! just wants to outsource their ads, so how can you compare with AOL case, as they completely handed over their search to Google. But, Yahoo wants to maintain their own search, I dont see why their market share should decline.

  14. Michael Arrington

    kuldeep, in a previous post I talked a bit about how search and search marketing go hand in hand. Experts I’ve spoken with say it is hard/impossible to keep up in the search race without the data from search marketing. But you are right, there is a difference.

  15. dave mcclure

    hmm… what’s more entertaining?

    1) “played the crazy card” comment, or

    2) fun picture of Laguna chewing on a $40B+ football

    tough call, but i gotta go with #2.

    GOOD DOGGIE!

  16. kuldeep

    …then I would be interesting to see what happens. Boy! this war is getting more and more exciting.

  17. Arona

    I like how the Executives of Y! have got the staff on their side via the redundancy programs, whereas their hardball negotiations with MSN are actually detrimental to the average staff member…v smart))

  18. Joe

    Flock the Yahoo deal, I hope Microsoft pulls their offer.

  19. Andrew Baron

    Perfect picture. Perfect.

  20. anonyjoe

    props to you for having the balls to stand by and link to one of your most embarrassing posts probably ever, with 197 comments telling how bad it was. it’s still bad btw

    more meth for tc!

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2008.....st-happen/

  21. brian

    Everybody talks about how AOL’s search share dropped since 2002. Why do you attribute the drop to switching to Google for search. Isn’t it more likely that the drop was due to the general decline of AOL subscribers who use the dial up service? It’s possible that AOL’s search share would have dropped even more had they not switched to Google.

    If Google technology is behind the scenes but not heavily branded on search results, most users wouldn’t even know that Google was powering the results.

  22. Jaan Kanellis

    I don’t agree with this:

    “Except, not really. Everyone, even Yahoo, realizes that a Google search deal is a slow but certain death for the company, even in the unlikely scenario of government approval. Those cash flow boosts are based on current traffic, but its very likely that Yahoo would see a gradual decline in search volume if they were to outsource to Google (as has happened with AOL, which moved to Google search in 2002 and has dropped from 30% to less than 5% market share). Expect Yahoo to take the same hit over time.”

    Why would Yahoo lose search market share? AOL share went down because of a slipping subscriber base.

  23. elpatriota

    Bravo Arona! Dog eat dog is exactly the world we live in. Y can work out a deal with way more leverage if it chooses MS.

    Google could care less about it (Y).

  24. Adrian

    Yahoo, one of the ultimate web acquirers get acquired.

  25. jro

    Here’s the most ridiculous part of this whole charade: Yahoo’s save-the-company strategy is to become the world’s biggest adsense partner.

    If that’s the kind of thinking that’s passing as strategy at Yahoo these days, MS is about to overpay.

    Jeez Yahoo, can’t you tell the difference between adding value and killing value anymore?

  26. Bob

    The “crazy card” is a strategy known in game theory. “Ill eat worms and die.” Yahoo thinks rationally in its predicament.

  27. Shiva

    Well i think google n’ yahoo will bring down microsoft’s network [:)]

    but they may not bring down
    CrAzYbLOG
    and
    V.Col

  28. Brick Marketing

    Great photo of Laguna! Yes, we agree - it seems that the damn search engines are making such rash crazy decisions these days… Yahoo is pretty stupid to be testing this outsourcing idea.

  29. TechGuy

    If we suspect that Microsoft and Yahoo are secondary players in search and that Google owns about 70% of the market and this will never change then it all comes down to revenue from ad networks.

    Google AdWords and Doubleclick with Google has a huge lead over YPN and Microsoft but the problem is that as much as this marketshare is large it is also very expensive. As smaller players move to Microsoft (Since Google will own the Yahoo traffic) there will be a more broken down market where Fortune 500 go with Google and their wide deep market but more smaller businesses will gravitate to cheaper Microsoft advertising.

    Is that right? Or am I full of crap?

  30. agent mulder lives

    not a lot of progress, but it is playing out as expected…msft will prevail, eventually and for its own sake. look for more action to happen around yhoo earnings next week.

    crazy IF, but if yhoo were to outsource to goog, that’s not good for anyone but goog shareholders…the supplier power would be substantial. end game would be 80/20 splits in favor of goog (at best for the publishers). don’t blame goog–they’ll have the most competitive offering in a free market. monopoly talk is utter nonsense (note: i’m not an atty, nor do i wish to play one on youtube).

  31. Tim G

    TechGuy - I don’t think being right or full of crap are mutually exclusive. Arrington’s posts are often proof of that ;-)

  32. Bob Ketner

    As a daily user of all three services I can only sing “Yahoo-hoo!”
    MS has had a decade to build 1 web page readable by humans and it hasn’t happened. Yahoo meanwhile is dedicated to web and actual users. My own interest is that I don’t want to have to bail out on all the services I use, because no doubt MS will positively wreck them.

  33. MistOne

    @techcrunch - good to see laguna in is in fine health after her health wows of late.

  34. Adrian

    Could you start a web business purely with strategy of acquiring ‘properties’ and integrating into the existing ones for ad revenue?

  35. HA

    Yahoo is wasting the industries time with the stall tactics. MS has asked time and time again to be allowed to play, the “Oh so hip technology crowd” said no, you kept saying no, now MS WILL DRINK YAHOOS MILKSHAKE and dominate the web

  36. Adrian

    Who uses Yahoo search anyway? What a joke.

  37. Brandon

    Nothing good would come out of Microsoft buying Yahoo. Everything they touch turns into poo.

  38. HA

    @37

    How? Can you explain how or your just another “open sourcer” who dose not like to pay for software?

  39. www.yahoomosh.net

    Yahoo may have another truble , yahoo mosh launched last year ,but failed to get the domain
    http://www.yahoomosh.net

  40. Pierre

    Three problems with the article:

    1) a search deal with Google does not need authorities approval, it is not a merger. If they would have done it sooner, it would have blocked the doubleclick deal, but now it won’t have effect.

    2) doing such a deal would not do a death blow to Yahoo. Yahoo visitors don’t care where the ads come from. In fact, if the ads on the page are more relevant to what they are looking for, they are more likely to return.

    3) The cash flows are likely to increase by far more than 25%, that Citigroup analyst is plain and simply wrong. By Yahoo’s own admission, the gap between Yahoo and Google search ad revenues is 60-70%. If they change to Google ads and get that boost and Google keeps about 30% of those revenues from Yahoo (that is about what they keep on average, according to quarterly financials about Adsense), the boost to bottom line is 0.65 * 0.7 = 0.455 or about 45%, almost twice what the analyst was thinking about. Add to that the reduced development, personnel, back office, etc cost from driving down their own ad serving efforts and you get to much higher figure. There are basically no costs to replacing Google ads instead of Yahoo search ads, so the difference goes directly to bottom line.

  41. Pierre

    I just realized there’s a mistake on the article. Michael, you analyze that Yahoo would switch to Google search, similarly to AOL, something which they are NOT doing. They are only trying out Google seards ads in place of their own ads, as far as I know.

  42. Search - Harry Wang

    I thought seppuku was a Japanese thing. I think Jerry is confused.

    Harry “poor lil Jerry” Wang

  43. michael s

    Regarding comment #41

    That is not accurate the FTC does have authority over business agreements

  44. Brett

    I don’t see how Yahoo will just “die a slow death.” Last I checked, they are still among the leaders, if not THE leader on a lot of the contents such finance, news, entertainment, webmail, messenger, etc. etc. And yes, they can’t beat Google on search, but then who can?

  45. Dilbert

    @44, FTC can’t regulate the fact that if Yahoo want’s to stop developing their own ad platform, they can do so at any time, and probably even switch to Google ads if they want to because their product is so much inferior (to the tune of 70%) within the rules. That’s how the markets work.

    Whether regulators want to slice and dice Google because of the ensuing monopoly is another question.

  46. Lakshmi Mareddy

    Google is doing to the search market what Walmart is doing to retail. Its trying to end up as last man standing.

    Now way back in 1995/96, Yahoo merged with Geocities after beefing up their value on paper. Those were the days of virtual dotcom purchases.
    I sense a similar approach (ref:interesting theory), but with the search traffic results.

    Since the issue is more of market share and less to do about search engine algo as such, its down to sensible business moves. If yahoo goes google, other than less breathing space, its a harakari for them. Why? Google is now behaving like the old Microsoft [on a quest for world domination].

    The only logic I see in Yahoos approach is to tie up with the possible winner early enough and not to incur terrible Google wrath later on when it tries to overtake Microsoft.

  47. Simon Graham

    Yahoo is just using the potential Google deal to get a better deal out of MS.

    It is a real shame to see one of the original “web 1.0″ big brands go this way though (”give up” and just use Google - or - get eaten by MS) but times change I guess.

  48. deb

    HAHAHAAHA nice pic of your dog eating up yahoo!

  49. Son Nguyen

    So basically Yahoo chooses to give up the search fight, surrender to Google rather than team up with Microsoft. How heroic!

  50. Riomurr

    Very interesting.

    You mix apples and oranges.

    “Yahoo and Google have completed a preliminary test of the trial deal to outsource Google ads to Yahoo search queries announced last week”. See, they outsource ads.

    “its very likely that Yahoo would see a gradual decline in search volume if they were to outsource to Google (as has happened with AOL, which moved to Google search“. See, AOL saw decline in search after they outsourced search.

    I have never heard yet that Yahoo is considering outsourcing search. The whole deal is only about ads as for now, and I don’t see any reason why outsourcing ads could directly affect their search market share.

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