If you don’t like something on the Internet, it seems that sending a DMCA notice is a nearly sure-fire way to get it taken down. We’ve seen some people fight back against fake notices, particularly the EFF. In fact, I’ve criticized the EFF in the past for being overzealous in fighting DMCA notices. But in many cases, the EFF and other groups helping people defend against bogus DMCA notices have been a huge help.
Sometimes abuse comes when people send out fake notices. Other times, blanket notices are the problem (see last link in paragraph above). But the situation today is one of the most petty I’ve seen to date.
Scorpio Music sent a letter to Yahoo (presumably a DMCA notice) that stated that a video created by Loren Feldman infringed on copyrighted material they control. The alleged infringement is over the use of the YMCA song by the Villiage People.
The video doesn’t play the song. At one point, for a couple of seconds, the puppets sang one line of it (around the 1:30 mark). Yahoo removed the video immediately (it’s still up at YouTube and is embedded above), and sent an email to Feldman threatening to terminate his account (partially copied below).
Yahoo also says that one more notice of infringement, “may result in not only the removal of all videos uploaded by you to the Yahoo! Video service, but also the termination of all your Yahoo! services as well as the deactivation of your Yahoo! ID.”
What bothers me most about this is the fact that the video, by any measure, would be considered fair use under copyright and trademark law. This isn’t a gray area.
Given how frequently bogus DMCA notices are sent out, people should be wary about uploading videos to Yahoo. Receive just two of them and you might find your Flickr, Yahoo Mail, and Delicious accounts wiped out before you even have a chance to respond.
I believe services have some duty to their users to throw out bogus letters before removing materials. Even a cursory glance at the video shows that no intellectual property was being used inappropriately. I expect the music labels and publishers to behave poorly, since they do so almost without exception. But I expect better from the Internet companies serving users.
Email From Yahoo To 1938 Media:
From: “Yahoo! Copyright”
Date: April 5, 2008 12:37:22 PM PDT
To: 1938Media
Subject: Notice of InfringementRE: http://video.yahoo.com
SCORPIO MUSIC S.A. / CAN’T STOP PRODUCTIONS INC.’s agent has notified Yahoo! Inc. (”Yahoo!”) that you have posted copyrighted material in connection with your uploaded Yahoo! Video which is proprietary to SCORPIO MUSIC S.A. / CAN’T STOP PRODUCTIONS INC.. SCORPIO MUSIC S.A. / CAN’T STOP PRODUCTIONS INC.’s agent has further notified Yahoo! that you are not authorized to use the “Village People” material in question at:
http://video.yahoo.com/watch/2267511/7132801
Yahoo! respects the rights of both its users and the owners and rights holders of intellectual property. Accordingly, and in compliance with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and/or other applicable federal law(s), Yahoo! has expeditiously removed and/or disabled access to the copyrighted material in question.
Through your participation in Yahoo! Video you agree to abide by the Yahoo! Terms of Service, as well as any additional Terms of Service applicable to you. The current Yahoo! Terms of Service may be reviewed at: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms. Pursuant to Section 6 of the Terms of Service, Member Conduct, you agree not to use Yahoo! services to “upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available any Content that infringes any patent, trademark, trade secret, copyright or other proprietary rights (”Rights”) of any party.
As you know, Yahoo! may terminate any and/or all services and accounts without notice. This notice is provided to you as a courtesy. Without waiving or limiting any rights or remedies Yahoo! has or may have, you are hereby advised that our receipt of another notification of infringement alleging your unauthorized use of another party’s intellectual property may result in not only the removal of all videos uploaded by you to the Yahoo! Video service, but also the termination of all your Yahoo! services as well as the deactivation of your Yahoo! ID.
Loren is hilarious!
Though a bit of a know-it-all, that isn’t too well-informed or doesn’t appear to be. He kinda represents the common man and their take, which is good.
Go get those losers EFF!
It’s obvious that yahoo has some kind of team that processes DMCA notices but it’s amazing to me that the team doesn’t include a lawyer of some kind who might be capable of watching the video and see if the DMCA claim is even valid?
I’m not saying that Yahoo should actively fight it for someone, but at least having a lawyer skim the complaint, then watch the video, and decide if the DMCA is totally frivolous…
Chris: What does Yahoo care if they’re valid or not?
@Frank Church: You don’t get the purpose of the EFF, thus the “get those losers” comment. Let you freedom be stifled one bit and how you will be crying for support.
@fernando, learn some english, then come back and make a comment, moron.
The EFF has, on a few occasions, sued those responsible for the abuse of the DMCA. If anyone says Loren and his stupid little puppet are not parody, I don’t know what is, and that is total abuse of the DMCA. Thus, I said the EFF should “go get the lowsers” as in sue Scorpio Music for abuse of the DMCA.
The world does need ditch diggers…
It strikes me that the threat to terminate all Yahoo! services account, although probably contained in the TOS, is both unreasonable and excessive. Imagine using a Yahoo email account for something like 5 years, only to have it completely terminated (including all your contacts, information, and documents). That could put someone in an awful bind. Very similar, in fact, to the news on techmeme right now.
OK, what’s up? No link to 1938 Media?
When I went to 1938 Media, I saw a video of Loren’s called, “RObert Scoble interviews Gabe Riveria”. In the middle of the video, at miinute 1:14, Arrington is blatantly present.
Loren Feldman was just at your house!
He was just at your house…
This is, of course, utter and complete nonsense.
But through this I just got introduced to the work of Loren Feldman (first I’ve seen it). I’m afraid Scorpio might find themselves having created a Striesand Effect here…
Interesting how much criticism Yahoo is getting lately.
Yahoo has also overzealously yanked folks flickr accounts, too. They exercise no thought, whatsoever. The slightest complaint — no matter how ridiculous — and they just destroy someone’s account and all the work someone has put into it.
Grow a set yahoo.
Maybe it’s best if they get bought up by someone.
i see lorens sleep over earned him some points. btw - was that you in the background of the scoble puppet interview?
Stupid, some people need to relax
Wow….I’m a longtime avid Yahoo paying customer to many of their premium services (including smallbusiness hosting, flickr, phone-out, etc. etc. etc.), and if this is what I’m putting myself at risk of, then I will begin the slow process of migrating to other services TODAY. I’ve also been recommending alot of these services to friends, family and business associates in a number of countries (ok, so that sounds like more people than it actually is..but still)……and I’m sure as hell going to make sure they know what sort of risk they are potentially taking. I am extremely disturbed by this approach by Yahoo.
Also, not for nothing, but Frank Church….you sound like a total fucking douchebag with your response to poster Fernando. Grow up.
You guys are all missing the main point here…
The Shel Puppet just made his huge - and widely-anticipated - debut into the mainstream. This guy is THE major thought leader on global web strategy and leverage in the puppet community, and he’s taking off like a shooting rocket in 2008. We’re talking book deals with six-figure advances.
Oh, and Scorpio Music (big time player in the industry) and by extension Yahoo…douchebag move. Glad you guys have figured out the internet.
Yahoo is doomed, so WTF cares anyways.
I think it’s worth noting that the puppets never actually sing the song!
The say the letters “YMCA” in a tune that is very close, but not quite the tune of the original.
And then they say a line - “You can do what you want” - that never actually appears in the song.
So, not only would it be fair use, I’m not sure the copyright holder here even has any sort of claim whatsoever. I think that makes it doubly worse.
But then, that’s the big problem with the DCMA. Courts, not corporations, should decide copyright violations.
Well, actually after Yahoo got geocities, I received a C&D to remove a PDF of a book from my site.
It was my own book. I own the rights to the work. I can’t even imagine who would complain, since I’m the owner. Of course, I ignored this C&D because it was ridiculous.
They took down my entire geocities account. When I contacted them they stated that the site was removed because they thought my contact information was incorrect since I didn’t respond to the request to remove the PDF.
That was also a ridiculous situation!
Yeah, thanks Yahoo. I don’t expect much from Yahoo! …. Serious
yeah…bummer. but look at the good news. I just save a lot of money by switching to Geico. Am I gonna be kicked off techcrunch now?
It’s clear now why Microsoft is eager to buy Yahoo — being trigger-happy with DMCAs means Yahoo has an anti-fair-use culture, which is also Microsoft’s.
Last year, I took the time to read the “Terms of Use” on Microsoft’s own videos upload site called “Soapbox” (now merged into MSN), and was stunned by how they described “fair use” — you’d be better off taking a trip to Chernobyl.
Microsoft likes people to think it’s a defender of copyright, so it’s kind of funny to read this on Bloomberg news today: “Microsoft Corp., the world’s biggest software maker, was told to pay $368 million after a jury found it infringed two patents owned by Alcatel-Lucent SA for touch- screen form entry and use of a stylus on computers…”
Yahoo apparently has a clause that allows them to remove content/users arbitrarily. Er, OK, so that’s what you sign up to. But:
The take-down notice says: “our receipt of another notification of infringement alleging your unauthorized use of another party’s intellectual property may result in [general bad consequences]“. “Alleging”? This is completely unacceptable. Yahoo users (count me out) should take this up with Yahoo immediately or get off their systems.
@frank church. You missed a comma: “Go get those losers EFF” doesn’t read the way you probably meant it. No biggie, but then maybe you might want to back off from lecturing others on English.
–
Chris
Host your own videos. Duh.
Possibly the most ridiculous example of over-zealousness I have ever heard! I don’t use Yahoo services (never have) and probably never will.
I love Loren and i like techmeme but with _both_ guys hanging at your house, making movies with you in the background I’d really like to get some explanation. I wonder why you didn’t use seesmic for posting it.
@warren, Ok, I’ll grom up, but I won’t resort to ad hominem attacks of name calling even though you are obviously clueless (eg. using any service from Y!).
@Christopher Bidmead, I fail to see how questioning the reading comprehension skills of a person that made an attack on my comment “lecturing others on English”. Reading comprehension and grammar are two separate discussions, and I don’t have any urge to make sure I place every comma in its place when commenting on a blog that frequently has 2-3 grammatical errors.
@Frank Church wrote “Reading comprehension and grammar are two separate discussions, and I don’t have any urge to make sure I place every comma in its place when commenting on a blog that frequently has 2-3 grammatical errors.”
Well then don’t complain when people misunderstand what you wrote. Grammar exists for a reason. Maybe you should become a computer programmer and see how far you get.
@Larry Larrikin, Go read the comment I made (#1) and find the grammatical error. The misunderstanding came from assuming everyone is sarcastic, not grammar. Commenting on a blog is not my job (tho who could tell), and I’m baffled by the idea that one’s comment writing diligence has any relation to what they do for a job.
Wow! Here we go again. Raise your hand if you have had an account closed at MySpace without notice. I have over 400 videos at YouTube and a large number at Yahoo too. I definitely feel at risk. The arrogance that these services don’t even feel they owe you the courtesy of a letter is amazing. My hope is that using tools like TubeMogul to syndicated our content may allow us to change our providers rapidly and quickly. I am now making sure that my profiles at Metacafe, Dailymotion, Revver, Blip and more are all as well developed and maintained as the ones I have at Yahoo and YouTube. DO NOT PUT YOUR VIDEO EGGS IN ONE BASKET! NEVER! Maybe what we need is to organize large contributors to these sites so that we may be able to take a group boycott action against them. Let’s all remember these instances as we continue our journeys. WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND!
@Frank Church; Though you claim you “…, won’t resort to ad hominem attacks..”, what do you consider it to be when you call someone a moron in your first post?
@Frank Church
There’s no way around it, you really came across as a d-bag here (maybe re-read #5)
Michael, I have to thank you for the EFF (www.eff.org) reference. Once again, I have to admit that you have turned me on to a VERY valuable source of information, even though you say you don’t actually support them. I have now visited the site, and Pax Stereo Tv is becoming a member and supporter. I wonder what it is that you specifically DON’T like about the EFF? So far, I am impressed.
@EH: I guess you’re right, my scenario did assume that Yahoo might actually want to do at least a preliminary evaluation before pissing off their users.
Obviously they don’t care at all…
#29, Maybe you should re-read #4:
“You don’t get the purpose of the EFF, thus the “get those losers” comment. Let you freedom be stifled one bit and how you will be crying for support.”
“Let you freedom?…”
“How you will be crying?…”
Um, what?
Commenting under different names to appear as though there is some consensus is very clever grasshopper.
“I believe services have some duty to their users to throw out bogus letters before removing materials.”
This is an issue I researched recently: what exactly does happen when a takedown is sent. I talked with EFF and with one of the DMCA authors.
I’m not a lawyer, but I believe that the DMCA explicitly lays out what service providers have to do both in the take down and in the process of adjudicating the response from the poster. These requirements allow the provider to remain within the safe harbor. It is really not a question of duty but rather the severe and significant consequesnces for both the business and the individuals if there is a successful infringement case that falls outside the safe harbors provision… it is this reality that directs service provider’s behaviors… not duty.
“I believe services have some duty to their users to throw out bogus letters before removing materials.”
This is an issue I researched recently: what exactly does happen when a takedown is sent. I talked with EFF and with one of the DMCA authors.
I’m not a lawyer, but I believe that the DMCA explicitly lays out what service providers have to do both in the take down and in the process of adjudicating the response from the poster. These requirements allow the provider to remain within the safe harbor. It is really not a question of duty but rather the severe and significant consequences for both the business and the individuals if there is a successful infringement case that falls outside the safe harbors provision… it is this reality that directs service provider’s behaviors… not duty.
This is business as usual for Yahoo! They have personally destroyed my photos in the past using bogus DMCA notices. It is part of their “shoot first, ask questions later,” standard operating procedure and it’s a crappy way for them to treat their users.
http://thomashawk.com/2008/04/.....-your.html
@Thomas Hawk, thanks for the info.
I’ve just read your post about how Yahoo erased your uploaded photo and the comments permanently due to of a bogus DMCA.
That was a stunning disaster.
Indeed as you said if Yahoo admitted to such blatant mistakes made to you and other prominent photographers who could put up a public fight, then little guys like us have no chance at all.
It’s so tragic that Yahoo has this “another infringement incident and we will nuke you” attitude toward its customers. I got tons of spam emails on my Yahoo email account, and I doubt Yahoo would treat the spammers the same way because Yahoo needs spammers’ clicks. Sad.
I similarly got a DMCA deletion and takedown notice from Youtube for a video which featured my friends dancing and wearing animal masks while a midi of the electric slide was playing. I tried complaining to Youtube to no avail. I have one strike against me by them.
@Frank Church: “He was just at your house…”
Wauw - does that make it more or less absurdity? Does it make it more or less newsworthy?
What’s your point exactly? That you have a Twitter account and know of MA’s whereabouts?
I DONT KNOW WHAT WERE YELLING ABOUT!!!
… but seriously, Frank Church needs to chill the eff out.
Back to the subject at hand, I think there’s a massive disconnect between the lovey-dovey higher ups at Yahoo! who have been preaching all sorts of openness and user-love and the people down low who actually handle the complaints and write the policies. Actually, that is the case with a lot of facets of Yahoo!’s business - the execs preach some grand message (or “mission statement”), but forget to follow up and effect any real changes where it actually matters.
Yahoo! deserves to be bought by Microsoft and driven into the ground. They can go to hell.,
If the mere mention of the words “YMCA” is enough to trigger legal action, will Scorpio/Can’t Stop follow through and sue EVERYBODY who utters that four-letter word?
I’m suddenly reminded of all of the lawsuits over graphical user interfaces in which Xerox belatedly realized, “Oh, we can sue too!” Expect the Young Men’s Christian Association to sue Scorpio Music S.A. / Can’t Stop Productions shortly.
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I just lost one of my Video’s today. And I don’t have it backed up anywhere…..over 20 hours worth of work, gone!
Its was up for over a year, it DID play Village People’s In the Navy (bought legally from Itunes) and used my own footage that I created in a variety of video games
But still, is this not something that is legal to do? I was never claiming that the song was made by me, in fact at the beginning it said “Music: Village People, In the Navy”.
These Bogus letters cost me 20 hours wort of my hard time a labor, and I can never retrieve the video! Actually….if I add the time spent in game recording the footage….it was closer to 30 hours or so….
-Will
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