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March 28, 2008

Google Risks Muslim Backlash By Hosting Fitna

Duncan Riley

234 comments »

Google is currently hosting controversial film about Islam Fitma.

The film has made tech headlines after Network Solutions suspended the site the film was to debut on, then Live Leak was forced to pull it following serious threats against the company from Muslims unhappy with the film. Live Leak’s explanation video above.

The film, ripped from Live Leak, is now available on Google Video here in full, and can also be found on YouTube. Warning on the film: there are graphic scenes in it.

What Google does now will be an interesting test for a company that claims “do no evil” as its company mantra. The video is hosted in the US, and we presume with part or full support of the creators of the film negating any copyright considerations, so ultimately it will be up to Google to decide between free speech and global jihad.

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This entry was posted on Friday, March 28th, 2008 at 7:25 pm and is filed under Company & Product Profiles. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

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  1. Tech Soapbox

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:33 pm

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  4. muslimmatters.org » Fitna?

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Comments

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  1. anon

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:38 pm

    bigger news is that google video still exists…I didn’t know it was even around anymore

  2. sabine

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm

    well if its about free speech ..am as muslim supporting google ..
    but can google keep the google earth shoot of isreal nuclear town? ..or could google allow others to upload the video clip, where the isreal kids learn how to hate others kids (school book), or the video clip when kids sign on rockects which they used to kill lebanese kids in 2006 war..
    plus watching the video well help us knowing what u to work on to help u understand our religion

  3. Jay

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    Are you against Free Speech ? If not what is the problem with this video being hosted in google.

    With out freedom of speech, I am sure a company like google would not exist in the first place, and I am sure the captains at google realize that and not pander to the ‘politically correct’ crowd. This video shows compiled footage of what had already happened, the dutch did not invent anything new. Stop pandering to the ‘politically correct’ crowd.

  4. CARversation.com

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    i find you should be able to post what you want.

  5. Ralf

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:48 pm

    Thank you Google. You earn my respect!

  6. Robert Lancer

    March 28th, 2008 at 7:59 pm

    All the Muslims making death threats are just supporting the case of the film makers suggesting that the Koran encourages violence. I dont know why they dont realize this.

  7. Michael B

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Why does google still have google video when it owns youtube?

    -Visit my site for ways to make money online http://mikesmoneyclub.blogspot.com/

  8. Duncan Riley

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    Jay
    I’m simply reporting the predicament Google is now in. For the record I’m 100% for free speech. The question is how much will Google be once what has happened with LiveLeak comes to Mountain View and Google’s various worldwide offices.

  9. Duncan Riley

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

    MichaelB
    Google Video still has long play hosting which YouTube doesn’t, aside from that I’m not sure.

  10. Richard

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    I am not sure if you have seen the movie!! But it is insanely disrespectful to Islam and full of fallacies. Let us love each other not stereotype each other.

    The movie links Islam to violence in a very stupid and direct way. What people would think if someone decides to link the religion of Jesus to violence? Be it accepted or no this is not the way to go! I know so many Muslims and they are my best friends. They are way more peaceful than any other friends.

    Israel and the US have killed hundreds of times more than muslims did while defending their land and their lives. I am not trying to defend anyone but we should know that we the Americans have invaded their land and killed their children and now left them with a bloody civil war that wasn’t there before we invade.

    I am with the free speech but we should always condemn the dutch producer of the movie like the the dutch government did.

    Peace

  11. Faramarz

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:15 pm

    Oh please.. a Muslim backlash?? haha they probably use Google search engine to find the video in the first place!

    any group or people who cannot take criticism don’t deserve my time or attention. if they don’t have the capacity to take criticism you can forget about any hope

    bonus points for Google!

  12. Ann

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:19 pm

    Dear Sabina.
    Hizbollah in Lebanon attacked Israel and send thousand of rockets on Israel civilian that killed kids including arabic kids in Nazareth this summer of war. Israeli kids learn in school tolerance to other religions and wish for peaceful coexistence. What exactly Hamas teach palestinians kids in Gaza. How to become suicide killers?Their hatred to jews are taught to them from early childhood the same as a little girl in the movie.
    The images from the movie Fitna can be found on the web sites of Islamic extremist. Your hatred of other people will bring to the disasterous war and no the other way around.

  13. Masseratti

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:21 pm

    And bill gates hates muslims too because he shook hands with salman rushdie.
    Fatwah for bill?

    How low can M$ go to discredit the competition?

    I call bullshit and a new low in journalism from techcrunch.

    Wait, I forgot it is not journalism, it is PayPerPost!

  14. mmk080

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:25 pm

    I am going to respectfully disagree with most of you here.

    I am all for freedom of speech and expression. I understand the importance of upholding that right and I understand that if you stop a video that offends a person(s) then you would probably have little videos out there on youtube or google video or whatever.

    However, this video is purely an act of provocation to Muslims. And it is not like insulting a whole group for their appearance or actions or even personalities etc.; it is in fact, insulting what they hold the dearest and most precious in their life, it is like insulting their very being and soul. So do not expect Muslims (me being one of them) to just see this video, shrug their shoulders like they are in “the Brady Bunch” or “Happy Days” and say “Oh well.” This is insulting and we’ll be vocal about it. Of course I am in no way approving of any act of violence in any form or shape and I am ashamed of anyone who uses this religion as an excuse for violence as a response to such weak acts of provocation like this video…

    Legally the entrenched right of Freedom of speech and expression (Human Rights Act 1998 s.12, 13 here in the UK) can be overruled if it is deemed that the information being published will be a threat to public safety e.g. publishing sensitive information from an ex spy (say) which could hurt the government and ultimately the people. Legally this video was refused publication because it was a threat to public safety … why? because it is completely an act of provocation and frankly a very low blow built upon ridiculous unsubstantiated allegations with no message other than Islam = Terrorists and also completely insulting us by for example, the scene where u hear pages being torn and a message coming on the screen saying “that was not the Quran being torn”…

    I think their should also be another exception to the noble-natured right of freedom of speech and expression but not a legal exception but an ethical moral one… some of you might of heard of it. It is called common decency. But law is law … not morals… the latter is up to the individual to uphold there are no real policing to that.

    So now, this video having been denied entrance through the official channels, is using the internet - where there are basically no real laws or at least its a grey area nowadays to publish it in. Fine. But what about your morals? Don’t you have any common decency? (I am speaking to the dutch makers and MP who helped put this video online after being rejected from publishing it legally).

    I hope this at least makes u get a better idea of why Muslims are vocal about such things. Don’t let the makers of this video fool you. This is not their way of trying to reinforce the noble-natured right of Freedom of Speech as much as it is a pure act of provocation to Muslims generally.

    Sorry for the long comment.

  15. Jeff S.

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

    All I can say is that I’m glad I don’t live in the UK, where, according to mmk080, free speech is as important as British dental care.

  16. Matt

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    all religion is twisted and sick, violent and hopeless, ignorant and easy.

    and each one preaches that it is the really hard to be filled with such zeal but heaven is your reward, when the truth is they are all just easy, prefabricated lives that require zero accountability, zero self awareness, and (most depressingly) zero thought.

    it;s not about christianiy vs. islam vs. judiasm etc… it’s about rational, modern thought and social progressions (including but not limited to freedom of speech) versus the unpoetic ramblings of pre-scientific fear mongers and opportunists…

    it’s high time the atheists started to get a little more vocal (and whatever)… knock ALL religious fucktards off their idiotic pedestals… western, eastern, and middle… all a sack of freak, tie ‘em all up and forget where we left ‘em. let science and logic finally start to make some real progress in this shit hole.

  17. mmk080

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:37 pm

    Thanks, Jeff S. I think you illustrated the point of unsubstantiated ridiculous accusations pretty accurately.

  18. Fabian Schonholz

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    Let’s assume that the film is a provocation to Muslims .. it actually is .. but the footage compiled on the film proves that there is a concerted effort by some parts of the Muslim world to wage war against anybody not Muslim. Like it or not, there is a definite storm brewing. We all started it and nobody is finishing it and it escalates daily.

    Here is a blog post I wrote … it does not provide the solution, but … it may explain how it stared.

    http://www.fabianschonholz.com/2008/03/16/god/

  19. Avi

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:40 pm

    You’d think that after who knows how many corrections, Duncan, you’d know Google’s actual slogan. It loosely translates to “don’t abuse your power.” Your version is a straw-man not worthy of debate.

  20. Matt

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:45 pm

    @#14.. no it doesn’t… you just admitted how hearing a piece of fucking paper get torn got you all messed up and severely damaged your soul… whatever the fuck… that is exactly what i was talking about before. do you realize how childish it sounds to say someone shouldn’t have the right to tear a piece of paper out of a book? it’s ink and paper and some cardboard… it’s a commercial and you buy into it hook line and sinker… the price? your life. your free will. i wont say your soul… because i hate to break it to you, but that’s not part of the human biological composition… yet it’s the only thing you seem to care about saving… well.. enjoy your one life. i could be wrong. if so, i guess i’ll be in hell. lol.

  21. Alz

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    More videos like this should be made and shown. We are watching the slow death of Europe.

    I found this article interesting. It’s called “Islam and Western Democracies” and it’s a short analysis of the Koran from a Christian perspective.
    http://www.sydney.catholic.org....._681.shtml

    Two points stand out: 1) “On the pessimistic side of the equation, concern begins with the Koran itself. In my own reading of the Koran, I began to note down invocations to violence. There are so many of them, however, that I abandoned this exercise after 50 or 60 or 70 pages. I will return to the problems of Koranic interpretation later in this paper, but in coming to an appreciation of the true meaning of jihad, for example, it is important to bear in mind what the scholars tell us about the difference between the suras (or chapters) of the Koran written during Muhammad’s thirteen years in Mecca, and those that were written after he had based himself at Medina. Irenic interpretations of the Koran typically draw heavily on the suras written in Mecca, when Muhammad was without military power and still hoped to win people, including Christians and Jews, to his revelation through preaching and religious activity. After emigrating to Medina, Muhammad formed an alliance with two Yemeni tribes and the spread of Islam through conquest and coercion began. One calculation is that Muhammad engaged in 78 battles, only one of which, the Battle of the Ditch, was defensive. The suras from the Medina period reflect this decisive change and are often held to abrogate suras from the Meccan period.”

    2) “The predominant grammatical form in which jihad is used in the Koran carries the sense of fighting or waging war. A different form of the verb in Arabic means ’striving’ or ’struggling’, and English translations sometimes use this form as a way of euphemistically rendering the Koran’s incitements to war against unbelievers. But in any case, the so-called ‘verses of the sword’ (sura 9:5 and 9:36), coming as they do in what scholars generally believe to be one of the last suras revealed to Muhammad, are taken to abrogate a large number of earlier verses on the subject (over 140, according to one radical website). The suggestion that jihad is primarily a matter of spiritual striving is also contemptuously rejected by some Islamic writers on the subject. One writer warns that ‘the temptation to reinterpret both text and history to suit ‘politically correct’ requirements is the first trap to be avoided’, before going on to complain that ‘there are some Muslims today, for instance, who will convert jihad into a holy bath rather than a holy war, as if it is nothing more than an injunction to cleanse yourself from within’.”

    There is an incongruence between what the Modern Liberals in the West claim are reasons for Militant Islam’s constant attacks and in what Militant Islam itself says are its reasons.

    The Modern Liberals make it politically correct, but the Militant islamists seem to speak very consistently about destroying enemies - anyone who is not Muslim. One of their sayings is “First the Saturday people and then the Sunday people.” I know the Liberal media hasn’t noticed, but Militant Islamists don’t talk about peace and not many moderate Islamists condemn the attacks. Heck, you can’t print cartoons with fearing for your head being cut off by these people.

    The West needs to wakeup. As a start, watch Geert’s movie.

  22. MikeT

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:51 pm

    The world deserves to learn different points of view.
    If Mulsims believe that Christian religion is violent - I will be more than happy to see videos of Christian clericals calling for beheading all non-Christians because I think I have the right to see all this. For now though, I watch what I can find and that is all about the radicalism of Islam, even if I understand that not all Muslims are as violent as Koran wants them to be. Are they considered “infidels” in this case?
    There are many interesting questions…

  23. Haiduk

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    Please find below the mail I sent just to inquiries@un.org as to call Ban Ki-moon to step back from the position of the UN SG. Please join me to send related mails to him as to defend our right on freedom of speech and expression.

    Thanks,
    Haiduk (Germany)

    Regarding: STRONG CONDEMNATION OF ‘ANTI-ISLAMIC’ FILM

    Dear Ban Ki-moon,

    under

    http://www.un.org/News/Press/d.....83.doc.htm

    I read you “condemn strongly” the airing of Geert Wilders’ movie “fitna”. Thouh you also “appeal for calm to those understandably offended by it”, but you must concede that this is a very halfhearted statement. Do you know that such an unbalanced statement will be perceived such that you make Geert Wilders responsible for any act of violence that may follow after the airing of this movie even(!) before such acts happen?

    So instead of defending the freedom of speech and expression that was warranted “without frontiers” by Article 19 of the human rights declaraion in December 1948 you become the leader of false reversion of the guilt-principles and thus give anyone a free charter for acts of violence such as flag buring and even murdering!

    I hope you know how far-reaching the implications are: Human rights article 29/1 says crystal clearly one has duties only to a “community” that grants the “free and full development” of ones personality and it was the co-author(!) of the human rights declaration Charles Malik who insisted in his “Talk on Human Rights”

    http://www.udhr.org/history/talkon.htm

    on this very crucial characteristics of human rights article 29/1 as a firewall against any future “excesses precisely of statism and socialism”!

    For this reason I see it as my duty to tell you that

    (a) the “free and full development” of ones personality undoubtedly covers also the freedom of speech and expression
    (b) the term “community” though primarily refers to the state where one lifes, but also the United Nations is a community in the terms of this article.

    this implies, that if you dont revoke or correct your above statements any duty anyone might feel adverse to the United Nations will become invalid.

    For that reason I plea you to withdrawal as Secretery-General as to prevent further damage to the reputation and authority of the United Nations.

    Best Regards,
    ….

  24. mmk080

    March 28th, 2008 at 8:58 pm

    Matt # 20, first of all, thanks for replying with something I don’t have to stoop to the intellectual level of a 12 yr old to answer.

    I actually can’t go to sleep so I will answer you hoping that at least you will see where I am coming from (u don’t have to agree with me). The film from start to finish is an attack on islam… from the context and the beginning of the aforementioned scene, they showed the Holy Qur’an with someone in the middle of turning pages… then the scene slowly fades off into a black screen with the sound still continuing and u hear the sound of pages turning suddenly you hear the sound of the pages being torn. Then the message comes up saying something like “this is not the Quran being torn…” I used that scene as an example of an act of provocation, that’s all. And i think its pretty obvious that it was provocative.

    Anyway it is just a view from a 22 yr old guy so take it as it is… a view from a 22 yr old guy.

  25. AhmedF

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    Wow - that was a pretty incendiary post Duncan.

    Just because it is anti-Muslim everyone must jump on the bandwagon and hate on it?

    I’ve seen the video - and other than (the typical) cherry-picking quotes without giving context, it is very overblown. A lot of hype for nothing.

    Then again, when you keep selling that all muslims ‘must backlash’ against this movie, it sort of sets the mindset.

  26. Islam Is Bullshit

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    @mmk080

    You’re a fascist piece of shit. If you lived in my country, which actually has a spine unlike Briton, I’d kick your ass.

    If something offends you, IGNORE IT. How retarded are you that you have to “get vocal” when someone expresses their opinion about your bullshit dogma? What, you can’t live with someone else’s differing opinion? See that’s what makes your bullshit religion so dangerous, you can’t live with other people who think differently than you. Intolerant fascist SCUM!

    Oh yeah, I just went to your shitty blog and noticed the first post. “I think love is highly over-rated.” Yeah, that really sums up you and “religion” of fascism.

    Oh, and by the way, Muhammed was a worthless pedo piece of trash. How does that grab you, vermin?

  27. stopmakingexcuses

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

    mmk080 - Speech, writings, film, video, drawings, painting, or any form of art; who are you to say that I don’t have the right to be offensive, informative, educational, funny, repulsive, obnoxious, ignorant, ridiculous etc., even with regard to Islam? If you don’t like the video, don’t watch it. Believe what you want and I will believe what I want. I am not the one condoning the killing, nor am I mutilating and oppressing women, or homosexuals, or any other non believers…

  28. m

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:02 pm

    Nice zinger, Jeff S.

    Too bad mmk080 is too serious to enjoy the humor in it. A little laughter goes a long way.

  29. Halo Smyth

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    ” Islam is a religion of peace - The nation of Islam is insulted by this video linking us to violence. Take it down or we will kill you.”

  30. Anon

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:11 pm

    Aside from all the aboves comments. Hey, Duncan, do you even know the term, “user generated contents”? Google Video doesn’t look after all the videos being uploaded to their site.

    And by the way, if Google hosting Fitna means that they are anti-muslim, then hosting Osama’s anti-US video is, what, unlawful?

  31. Alz

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:12 pm

    Well, it looks like LiveLeak capitulated and took it down. I guess it’s on Google’s YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCrCsTMokTU
    I see some Dutch Leftists are setting up appeasement videos. http://www.mediamatic.net/article-33851-en.html

    Then I see that the Dutch government and the EU jumped in to make sure they oppose free speech.

    All of this is so interesting as the hierarchy of Modern Liberals (leftists) is being exposed. Militant Islamists hate gays - the leftists are silent. Militant Islamists treat women like dogs - the leftists are silent. Militant Islamists are against free speech - the leftists are silent. Militant Islamists hate lefists - the leftists are silent.

    These Modern Liberals will go down with the ship. (Watch Evan Sayet’s How Modern Liberals Think” to get an idea of this strange mindset.)

  32. Only Love Can Defeat Terrorism

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:14 pm

    I Think you guys should read this article :

    ‘only love can defeat terrorism’ http://www.harunyahya.com/defeat01.php

  33. Duncan Riley

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    AhmedF 24
    WTF? LiveLeak pulled the vid because of serious threats, which the video above (if it loads, seems to be having issues) shows (it’s LiveLeaks official statement). I’m not saying anyone “must” backlash, but it’s pretty clear the those threatening LiveLeak for hosting it will probably now target Google; nothing racist or inflammatory about that, simply a fair conclusion based on the facts at hand.

  34. AmmoBob

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:15 pm

    Why is it that anything negative said about Islam or Muslim’s always results in some kind of a call for Jihad?

    If Islam is really a religion of “Peace”, it sure does not show it very well.

    Kudos to Goggle for not taking the Politically Correct road into fear.

  35. Mia Riko

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    this video is totally pathetic in the sense that its sole purpose is provocation. Just because a few muslims call for death to jews doesn’t mean every muslim behave like that.

    someone needs to make a video of skin heads walking around with crosses and yelling “white power” and take it totally out of context and turn it into a video against christianity.

  36. John

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    Extreme right wing in Euorpe is taking advantage of growing islamophobia in U.S. and Euorpe because of Iraq and Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It is sad to see mainstream start defending it using free speech as straw men. Believe me he will be doing the same things to Jews if condition are right and politically correct.

  37. ZiZi

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Fuck all religions, period.

    “Fuck the god who makes pray with a fist of bullets”
    Minuscapita

  38. liam

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:21 pm

    Calling this video a threat to public safety just prooves it’s point. How sick is it that we have to take a video down that accuses people of violence because we fear the violent reactions of just these people.

  39. ZiZi

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:22 pm

    “Fuck the god who makes *you* pray with a fist of bullets”
    Minuscapita

  40. AhmedF

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:29 pm

    Duncan - how many people threatened? How exactly do you know who threatened?

    Does ‘God Hates Fags’ mean all Christians are evil? Of course not - that would be a dumb logical leap. In that same way, do threats suddenly mean Muslims are backlashing against LiveLeak?

  41. greggman

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:39 pm

    If someone is willing to kill over this video then I for one support Google if they take it down.

    It’s fine to support free speech but it’s not fine if you expect someone else to die for it. You want to protest, go publish it yourself. Putting others in the line of fire is not cool.

  42. Ali

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:47 pm

    By hosting this video google is going to hurt the feelings of millions. I think “do no evil” just means “free speech” to google because humiliating and insulting beliefs of millions is “evil”

  43. Islam Sucks

    March 28th, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Why does only the Muslims have problems with videos and not Christians, Buddhists, Hindus do not have issues when they are challenged by critics.

    Muslims are whiny bitches.

  44. New York

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Stupid White Man. You will perish for your stupid tolerance.

    America , Europe and all western civilization will one day be found only in Islamic libraries.

    Go Obama!

    We think we can make friends with them. Stupid white man.

  45. New York

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:01 pm

    By hosting this video google is going to hurt the feelings of millions. I think “do no evil” just means “free speech” to google because humiliating and insulting beliefs of millions is “evil”

    You call this ‘Belief’ you punk. Go die you virus!

  46. Mike

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:06 pm

    #10 & #14- respectfully, you two don’t get it. Provocation of Muslims? Let’s say these barbaric terror acts and threats were doctrine of the dissodent Catholics. Good Catholics everywhere would condemn them outright.

    Where are the moderates of Islam?

    Are they scared to speak? If they are it’s a problem, if they aren’t it’s an equally big problem.
    Europe is being converted, almost there, they just don’t know it. The few that do, the few who make these films do so at the risk of their own lives.

    How is this? The Islamists have turned the tables under the cloak of religion.
    As for Google, bravo for free speech. Just be consistant. Your China site complies with censorship concerning Tibet and that’s a problem.

    One thing we learn from all this is God Bless America and our brave soldiers and Marines who are putting it on the line in the Middle East so these fools will think twice before bringing it here wholesale.

    Thanks for posting this Techcrunch!

  47. Free Speech, yes but if to everybody

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:08 pm

    I’m for freedom of speech, only if it’s on ALL topics and religions. The problem today is there is an unlimited freedom of speech regarding Islam and muslims. Cultural leaders, medias and politics are criticizing this religion and its people 24/7 and they sometimes cross the “boundaries” like with this movie.

    However, when it comes to sionists, jews or even Israeli policy, nobody will talk anymore. It’s forbidden and speech becomes very limited, not to say non-existent. The same people that defend free speech on Islam, become mute when it comes to sionism and Israel.
    They actually censor and ban “leaders” that are hostile to Israeli policy for example. Many ruined their career in Show Business because of their anti-sionist opinion. That’s the undeniable reality in 90% of western countries.

    So free speech yes, but on everything.

  48. Andrew Vorobyov

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:13 pm

    F*ck all religions!

    It’s a matter of 2-10 years until something extraordinary will happen and save the world from total annihilation.

    But you know, chance to fix it is always there but humanity prefers something more interesting - killing each other.

  49. hehehe

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:18 pm

    Ya, freedom will piss you off. How come I have to live next to “every kind of asshole” and not be allowed to kill them, but they can kill whoever they want.

  50. hehehe

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

    ?

    dang!

  51. Ali

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    @#42
    I am sorry. I should have chosen my words more carefully. I never meant to say that I or other muslims believe in these horrific acts of violence. What I wanted to say was that this video just goes out to say that muslims are terrorists, which is absolutely incorrect. this is a misinterpretation of muslim beliefs and hence it hurts the feelings of millions of muslims who are out there and who denounce these acts of terrorism.


  52. March 28th, 2008 at 10:49 pm

    Duncan,

    I expect misquoting the Google motto from people commenting, but if you’re going to write about the motto, please get it right. It’s…

    DON’T BE EVIL

    -not-

    DO NO EVIL

  53. Your choice to be offended

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

    The movie shows how some people understand Islam. It shows real events and corresponding passages of the Koran, and suggests a causal link. Repressing people’s concerns with political correctness will not improve relations between muslims and others.

    Instead strive for better understanding. Explain why the film is wrong, why the violence depicted in the film is caused by misunderstanding the koran. Enlighten people, mmk080, but don’t berate them for their “indecent views”.

  54. Sundar

    March 28th, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    Having grown up as a Hindu in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood in India, the Islam I saw was peaceful. I think the religion has been hijacked at the expense of majority of the followers of Islam. The first scene of “fitna” reminded me of a caricature of Kushwant Singh, writer, editor of a newspaper in India. So if all men with turbans are viewed as a caricature or cartoon of a religious leader and is in violation of one’s beliefs then we ought to ban all turbans!
    Fitna should not be banned or censored. Let the viewers make up their own opinion.

  55. Duncan Riley

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:03 pm

    49
    I didn’t say it was their motto, I said it was their mantra. The two as far as I’m concerned are essentially the same thing.

  56. LACK OF TOLERANCE

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    #44 … sure… go ahead and make a video about sionism… we will all gladly watch it and simply… watch it… not get our asses up to our heads for it… and while your at it, go ahed and make one of christianity as well… as a christian believer (not fanatic), I would certainly have no problem on viewing it and knowing it is being viewed by many others…

    #51 … Exactly…

    If Islam followers had more TOLERANCE, then we wouldn’t be here chatting about making excuses for this video to be kept being hosted or to be banned by Google….

  57. Raman VikramAdith

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    Google even bend over for the Chinese autocracy.

  58. Alz

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:30 pm

    Ali, maybe you can see my point: not all Muslims are terrorists but 1) it seems that most terrorists are Muslims, 2) that we keep reading about Jihad’s, 3) chants of death to Israel, America, anyone who draws an objectionable cartoon, 4) actual deaths (bombings, decapitations (Daniel Pearl, etc.), rockets flying into Israel every day), 5) suicide bombers, 6) more threats, etc.

    Then toss in how they treat women, gays, etc.

    Many people are waking up and ignoring the leftists (especially in the media) who are willing to sacrifice everything in order to say everything is equal.

    And there is very little complaining from “moderate” Islamic voices - they must be afraid too. And LiveLeak took down the video very quickly. I suppose many people in the Netherlands are afraid.

    This does not seem to be a religion of peace. This Geert is courageous.

  59. Peace

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    53 LACK OF TOLERANCE:

    There are lot of videos about sionism just not promoted on blogs like this. If they were, there will be financial consequences. It is called self-censorship.

    We are chatting about because it is being promoted this way (i.e. free speech jihad) where real purpose is to promote conflict in the world.

  60. Peace

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    55 Alz

    You have a very simplistic view of the world and exactly like radical jihadist who is saying the same things in Muslim world: see Christians and Jews are invading our countries, killing hundred of thousdands of people etc.

    This video is designed to promote conflict in the world and should not be promoted.

    “moderate muslim do not speak out” is an old right wing argument.

  61. Randy

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    I thought that Techcrunch was a tech-blog. Morphing into a political blog now?

    Duncan: This discussion does not belong to this blog. I watched the film on Google and had to stop in between. Some images were very graphic.

    Anyway, my point is that we should maintain the context of discussion (technology) in this blog. Any political discussion does not bode well.

  62. Smel

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:57 pm

    Excuse me but the majority of you are a simple ignorants, you don’t know anything about Islam and Islamic world, nor about your history …

    Just Loooooool

    a happy Muslim, and if you want a terrorist :-) Hoooo Hoooo !!!!!!!

  63. Tom

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Hey mmk080,

    Tell it to the Van Gogh family!

  64. Melvin RAm

    March 28th, 2008 at 11:59 pm

    Everyone has a right to free speech but they should also be held accountable for the actions resulting from that free speech. The actions that will spring from this video are of hate & destruction.

    Free speech is important. Even more important is using your brain. I am not an expert on Islam but I can directly tell from watching the first 15 mins that it’s pure propaganda that is as dangerous, if not more, as tobacco ads aimed at kids or screaming fire in a crowded theater.

    What should Google do? Treat it like a porn video.

    A quote comes to mind: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

  65. Faramarz

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:07 am

    Well put Melvin! Well put

  66. Tom

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:12 am

    Hey Melvin RAm,

    The video just showed the the facts for all to see. And to your point: “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”

  67. Freedom of Speech, yes, but on everything

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:16 am

    Additional info on my post #44 and reaction to others:

    You won’t find a video about sionism on TV, on the networks hundreds of millions watch, nothing much in the press or radio. These medias, different companies are more and more merging with each other. They are under the hand of a little group of people, themselves in relation with some powerful lobbies. They give the “guidelines” for different information that must be in favor of their common and shared interest: Israel cause.
    I can tell you right now, Obama, even though he seems ahead of everybody in the polls, will never be president of the US and not because of his ethnicity or whatever. Just because he’s against the war in the Middle East. For this reason only, he will never be let in the White House. Don’t forget this and let’s talk about it again in a few months.

    This being said, fortunately we have the web, the freest media on the planet. And that’s exactly why this “group of individuals” hate the Internet. Because there we can watch any kind of videos, get different opinions, that’s democraty. Nothing to see with what we have on traditional medias. The only thing about the Web is and I agree with post # 56, different topics are not promoted on the same blogs. Hope it won’t get like TV in a few years.

  68. surgery archive

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:24 am

    this all is politics, US Israel and Muslims have killed enough, everyone kills when they get big, the problem here is that people like this dutch producer should not fire up hate among communities and nations, there is already enough fire in the world.

  69. Rick

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:34 am

    God these people are so stupid. If I had a big red button that could kill every Muslim, I’d press it. If I had a big red button that killed every religious person, even better. Let’s restart humanity with the best 10%.

  70. Joe

    March 29th, 2008 at 12:52 am

    When I watched this video, it made me somewhat sick to my stomach.

    It’s not that I’m opposed to critiquing Islam. Like any value-system, such as Judaism or Christianity, it deserves a serious critique. And maybe even some of the points are valid. Perhaps Islam is more a militaristic religion in its core teaching than Christianity, for example. But even if true, this ignores the fact that in-practice, Christian peoples have proven themselves just as destructive as Islamic peoples, if not even more. One could easily make a video about the evil hypocrisy of western (Christian) cultures, complete with footage of Dresden and Hiroshima. Or you could focus on the Jews.

    But whoever you picked, if you used the same one-sided ad-hominem fear-mongering that this video employs, you end up with the same thing. A bigoted, hate-filled diatribe. This is free-speech, I guess. But only to the extent that a swastika qualifies.

    It is a shame for google to waste its bandwidth hosting this filth. Whoever wants to peddle it can find the nearest street-corner.

  71. Othman

    March 29th, 2008 at 1:04 am

    I am Muslim and I stand by Google`s side to host the movie and any other movie as long as it doesn’t insight people to commit crimes.
    This short movie took the worst footage of Muslims and make them all look like they are all trying to destroy Freedom and civilization , ITS SO NOT TRUE, It s like showing the KKK and making it the image of Christians.
    I know Techcrunch readers are pretty smart people “not the average Joe”.
    But you have an Idea of what a movie like this can do to the rest of the people with an average IQ.” its spreading Hate”

    Ps: Morocco is a Muslim country where more than half a million Jews live peacfully, they feel safer in Morocco among Muslims than in Israel, feel free to ask them yourself. I got tons of jewish friends in Morocco

  72. theraven

    March 29th, 2008 at 1:12 am

    you stupid moron duncan, which part of the comfortable world do you live in… one thing citing google’s motto “don’t be evil”, another thing altogether deciding exactly what evil is on behalf of everyone…

    perhaps, just perhaps its evil to spread the word of hate!

    i’m NOT a muslim, never will be, but all the video is doing is showing very biased stuff to create fear and hatred.

    and don’t give me free speech crap… its good in theory and should be followed as much as possible, but as an absolute value, it cannot survive, like anything else!!! so should i be “free to use a gun in any direction i want” … isn’t that “freedom”!!!!!!

    you covering the post in the way you have, have shown that you have fallen completely under the spell of fear… come into the light my son, and love thy neighbour… with any luck, they will be muslims and you will realise that they have hearts too and love back.

  73. Trace

    March 29th, 2008 at 1:15 am

    The exact reason why LiveLeak had to pull the video is why it must be shown.

  74. theraven

    March 29th, 2008 at 1:16 am

    btw, tom, do tell exactly that to the van gogh family… why shouldn’t you… haven’t you been telling them that its all muslims that have done it so far? if they realise that perhaps not all muslims are responsible for the action of a few, they will realise that putting blanket blame only worsens the situation!

  75. Jon

    March 29th, 2008 at 1:56 am

    Good for Google - there is FAR too much pandering to people being “upset” by free speech and a different view from their own.

    Trace - very good point - agreed. It makes me laugh when religions say they promote peace. They certainly do not - frightening and a major cause for concern.

  76. Rob

    March 29th, 2008 at 2:13 am

    Time to fight jihad with, er, ghad?

  77. Klaus

    March 29th, 2008 at 2:26 am

    Major kudos to TechCrunch for making people aware of this important film.

  78. CARversation.com

    March 29th, 2008 at 2:28 am

    I have a feelinng this conversation is gonna get ugly.

  79. Part 1

    March 29th, 2008 at 2:44 am

    Thank you Duncan for publishing this article.

    I was lucky enough to see the Van Gogh film, and then later heard about his tragic murder. I am also very glad I have seen this film.

    I am disgusted by what has happened in Palestine, naturally, and am doing the small bit I can with my own voice to lay shame upon and embarrass the Zionists and murderers both in Israel and the White House who have BTW caused many of the wost atrocities man has known. What happens today in Iraq is pure theft of the lands wealth and a disgrace to ‘our’ western ’superiority’. We in the west should be designing technical solutions to the global energy crisis, as well as the many other real crisis’s that threaten human survival such as climate change etc, not instead sending our ignorant youth overseas to cause carnage and mayhem while BUSH et al steals the oil from under their ground, and all in name of the phony so-called ‘war on terror’ better understood as ‘the war OF terror’.

    That said, the Muslim community should rightly be very embarrassed by this film and the footage within it. Any decent human being should use their voice when ever they can and as often as they can to lay shame upon the perpetrator’s of evil, now matter its guise, bias, or rue. Muslims, look within your own souls and ask is this the right way to be indoctrinated?

    The words of evil spouted by these ‘Imams’ who parade about in mosques polluting everything they touch with their vile ignorance, and the acts that they lead others to commit are disgusting and below that of any ‘real intellect’. It cannot be justified, just like the acts of terror committed by the Zionists and the murderers aloft in the White House cannot be justified.

  80. Part 2

    March 29th, 2008 at 2:45 am

    The solution to our global problems will not be found in violence, but in design and creation, demonstrated if you like by God (if you are a ‘believer’). Why, it is God that shows us by example is it not, that our goal in life is to emulate and create like it does? Thus creation of a global system that acts like a real God on earth and punishes / provides negative feedback to those that commit wrong is well over-due.

    There are 3 small things that will solve our global problems, 1) we need a new legal system, 2) a new political system 3) a new monetary system. I would personally prefer that Apple designed it, rather than Microsoft, least I start yet another war.

    But this is where we stand, we need hackers and designers to redesign the global regulatory system from this nonsense we live with now, into a self organizing, self regulating economic stable society (JMS). That derives its authorities not by trust nor vote, but by history and proven example. Authorities in all aspects should arise from the ground up, based on the principles that Google understand