There is a scourge on the Web. It is called Internet Explorer 6. Even though the more recent version of Microsoft’s browser, IE7, has been around for more than two years, IE6 still represents 31 percent of all browsers out there (versus only 22 percent for IE7 and 36.5 percent for Firefox). This upgrade lag is simply unacceptable—to programmers, that is, who find it a real pain to make sure their Web apps work on five different browsers. Not only that, but IE6 supports some non-standard features and functions that are not compatible with other browsers. The security vulnerabilities aren’t too much fun either.
It’s too much work and, quite frankly, it is driving some programmers batty. Which is why a group of them have created SaveTheDevelopers.org, an organization dedicated to making the Web a better place for developers (and thus for users as well). Web developers can grab a piece of code to put on their Websites which will detect if a visitor is using an outmoded browser (IE6, cough). When the offending browser is detected, a pop-down window will appear (assuming those aren’t blocked) which will direct the user to a page where they can upgrade to IE7, or the latest version of Firefox or Safari.
More campaigns are planned for the future to whip those laggard Web surfers into shape, and once again make the Web safe for developers.
See all
Post
Or alternatively, Stop using FireFox.
I can understand the frustration with the non-compliance of IE. But why are other browsers almost always shut out in recommendations? Try Firefox? Why not Opera?
Great point. I can’t believe there are still more people on IE6 than IE7… I thought that MS monopoly allowed them to push their new software to people!
How to make your 2.0 website work on IE6: 1) Put your head next to the wall 2) Hit the wall with your head 3) Repeat ad lib.
Opera? Supporting Opera buys you 2% of the market. I don’t know of any dev’s that test on Opera.
I test on all current browsers for Windows and OS X machines that are not obscure. Opera is really innovative as far as browsers go– it’s basically the Cadillac of browsers. I think it’s fundementally wrong to design so that you need to demand your visitor use any specific browser. The web is a flexible place. If you write compliant (X)HTML and JavaScript it’s not hard to get something useable for any user that might hit your site. If it works in Opera I’d be willing to bet that it works in some other major browser as well. Although it’s nice if people adapt the newer browsers; especially since IE6 is the front door for adware and spyware, and its implementation of CSS is very laugable when compared to the other browsers. IE7 and IE8 are really great efforts to overcome IE6’s weaknesses.
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND! - do you design website really? REALLY for REAL?
I test on Opera. It’s gained some share with its Wii presence. It’s also a really neat browser.
Firefox does more harm to the developers than all IE’s combined, in terms of time wasted over all these years, and continue to waste developers time.
I am amazed to see that firefox has that large a percentage of the market. I would love to geta sampling from say weather.com or something showing browser statistics, I am sure firefox is not that high.
Firefox is not that high on a non-technical site….15-20% tops….
But, in any case, IE7 sucks beyond sucking. Just like Vista sucks beyond sucking. People don’t want to “upgrade”….
I’m not sure what’s up with w3school’s numbers, but for my high-traffic consumer-oriented sites IE7 beats IE6 2-to-1. It’s about time a movement like Save The Developers reached critical mass. I’ve placed the popup code (note, it’s not a real popup and won’t be affected by popup blockers) on my web design firm directory.
Would you happen to have that code handy? I’ve just designed a website using RapidWeaver and the only browser it doesn’t look the same is with IE6. I would love to be able to insert that code onto each page, yet don’t know how (I’m very new to web design) Thanks for your time!
This is good,
but..
For a more effective campaign, we all should ban IE6 users with a lovely message + link to Microsoft Downloads site ..
Anyone ? JK ..
I would support that motion!
It’s easy to understand. ie7 (which is a great browser by the way) comes as an optional download on windows update and you need to have a valid Windows XP license to get it.
Most of the people who do not upgrade from ie6 either are not web savvy enough to feel the need and/or haven’t paid their XP licenses and do not care about firefox or opera.
IE7 is a big pile of junk. its unstable, difficult to use and frankly ugly.
firefox isnt much better, My firefox widow has 400 tabs along the window I cant close/
brilliant,
at least ie6 works,
I think devs forget that really, nobody want or needs flash, java or all the other addon crap. 99% of users want to get to wiki, Google and ebay.
hell, I still have a small percentage(around 1% of IE users) using versions 4 and 5. About 30% are using version 6
I know that some users insist on using IE6 over IE7 due to what they feel is an “unwelcomed improvement” with security notices. Sites with self-signed or otherwise invalid certificates, as well as sites that simply encrypt only some content (ahem, Google) turn IE7 into an incessant nagging machine.
Word!!
Realistically 99% of the type of companies/startups that Techcrunch targets are being used by people who are more tech savy than to have an older browser.
Why not just code for IE 7 and if you get a user with IE6 put up a big ass warning telling them to upgrade. Make it really obnoxious too, like a huge red box that say upgrade to IE7 or Firefox
As a developer who spent the Ester weekend trying to solve IE6 related issues I’d love to see everyone make the switch. But alas we can’t upgrade at work becuase a significant amount of enterprise software only works on IE6. Until that changes I will be stuck with IE6 at work. Unfortunately it’s not quite as simple as just encouraging people to upgrade. I’d love to but I can’t.
At home it is a different story.
How did IE5 usage go UP 0.2%??
What a stupid idea… I’m sure these “developers” are going to go out and install updates on grandmas’ computers all over the place. Developers do not dictate the needs of the market, they respond to them.
This is nothing more than wishful thinking.
Good news, now if we can get rid of small but very vocal 5% who use Opera & Safari, all will be well….
Reset css like yahoo ui make it trivial to make your site look roughly the same in all browsers.
I’m still using ie6 for the ietab firefox plugin.
My company’s site, aimed at US corporate users:
52.6% IE6
33.4% IE7
8.4% Firefox 2.0
2.2% Netscape 4.0 (!!!)
1.6% Safari
0.4% IE5
0.5% Firefox 1.5
0.2% Opera 9
0.2% IE4
I was in a VCs office last week and their stock computers had IE6 on them.
1) haha
2) I wonder how much of the IE6 marketshare is from IT departments that haven’t upgraded their company’s software yet vs. home users who haven’t upgraded
I’ll second that and I’ll add resolution to the mix. Anyone that accesses a site from a computer with 800×600 should be taken directly to a display vendor’s website.
And 1024X768ers, you’re next!
Well, what about smaller screen sizes on mobile devices? Developers should be able to make sites work with all resolutions…..
Sounds like typical developers whining to me…the market drives what people want to use. as long as the market doesn’t see a need to upgrade, they’re not going to just to satisfy the inconveniences of developers. the world works on a “what’s in it for me” mentality and until there is some perceived value, in the consumer’s eyes, to switch, there is no incentive for them to switch…”save the developers”? don’t waste your time. figure out a way to solve your problem and don’t expect others to solve it for you.
“Redirect Loop
“Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete.”
So much for linking to that site, then.
It could be because Microsoft never pushed it out to everyone. I have two systems with automatic updates turned on. Every second tues. of the month i make sure they get updated. I have NEVER received IE7 from Microsoft. I don’t really care since I’m a Firefox user anyway, but still there is no exuse for Microsoft not pushing it out to everyone. Also, I’d bet you a majority of IE6 users are corporations and not the general public.
@DaveS: Leaving out the fact that W3 Schools only publishes “market share” stats for their domain, ignoring the 2% of Opera *desktop* users also means your site may or may not work on a host of other devices from Sony Ericsson, Nokia and Motorola phones to the Nintendo Wii.
But I hope you’re at least coding according to standards. If that’s true, testing in Opera should be relatively painless and give you some added peace of mind.
it doesn’t matter if they are corporate users or the general public. they are the consumers in the market. until they feel a need to switch and a perceived value, they won’t switch.
It is the consumer best interest to upgrade. Why? Because it helps new entrants on the market. And, as a consumer, you want more choice.
So, it is not just “Save the Developers” — It is also “Help the Consumers”.
Dwight - The problem is that most people think a browser is a browser. As long as they can see one site on it, they assume that if another site doesn’t work, it’s the fault of the developer.
How many times do you think the general computer user says, “wow, i really need to update my browser b/c it will add X value”
I’m not sure I trust that Firefox is 30%, I think most of the numbers I’m used to seeing are closer to 15% ….. IE6 DOES suck…..creates a lot of work to make sure everything appears correctly in sites using it, but it can’t be ignored with a third of the population using it. Ultimately end users don’t care and shouldn’t care about the effect this has on developers, so when these people upgrade their computers or their tech guy or kids upgrade for them, THEN the problem is solved, not when developers tell them to upgrade. Microsoft is already telling them to upgrade in most cases and they don’t, so they are comfortable and clearly don’t see using IE6 as an issue.
How many of those are corporate users? I am willing to bet a big percentage of those are large enterprise desktops where the user has no control over what software is installed.
Virtually I am already part of it…My blog doesnt work on IE6… I refuse to support this browser
…lets call it to sack IE6!
I agree. dont make your website to support IE6. Lets all developer ignore IE6!!!
I already do…
Jean HR - i do agree with your comment at the highest level but…
1. users aren’t savvy enough to understand what is always in their best interests.
2. one could argue that consumers don’t always want more choice. if their needs are being met at a price/cost that gives them the perceived value they need, they make the purchase. eventually, this builds loyalty to that brand/product and the introduction of choice provides no perceived value. there are many examples in the business world where an intruder into the market (more choice) created chaos and destroyed the market. too many choices leads to consumer paralysis which is very poor for the market. FYI…this has happened in the world of insurance, brokerage houses, financial institutions, fashion. what consumers really want is a product that has been turned into a commodity or they want inovation that will improve “something” in their lives. i’m not sold that upgrading to ie7 provides for either of those needs.
also, a pop-up, as being suggested by the save-developers organization would not persuade any one of the value of changing. most people don’t even read them.
lastly…bad acronym for save the developers…STD…
The thing that really irks me is that even before IE7, Microsoft had ample opportunity to fix long-standing IE6 bugs (e.g. alpha transparency pngs) with their update process but did not.
The stats above represent browser usage among people that visit the w3schools site (web developers), not the general public. In reality, one should expect that the IE6 percentage is even higher and FF to be lower.
To get a more accurate view, one would need to get stats from a broad-based consumer site, like Amazon or Yahoo. Anyone aware of such stats?
One problem is that ie7 is not available on windows 2000. Before you force everyone to upgrade to vista, remember your (grand)parents who are likely running windows 98 or mac os9.
You don’t have to upgrade to Vista (thank God!!) to have IE7. There is a free upgrade to IE7 only. I have XP and it didn’t come with it. I haven’t upgraded because it will overwrite IE6 and I haven’t found a way to run both on my computer so I can still test my sites in IE6.
you can use ietester.
It’s kind of a Chicken and the Egg situation though. A lot of developers, like myself, keep IE6 installed so that we can use it for testing purposes. My main browser is Firefox and I keep IE6 going so I can test things to see if they work.
There is no real point for me to move to IE 7 because 1) It doesn’t have as much market share and 2) It’s a lot easier to fix any incompatibility issues with design. I simply just wait till the end, and do my IE 7 testing…
matt - you are exactly right…there is no perceived value in one versus the other so why upgrade? i use ie6 and it satisfies probably 99% of all my needs. i don’t really care about the additional cost and/or burden being placed on developers because i don’t bear that cost and/or burden as an end user.
now…you may argue that my cost is driven higer to transact due to the higher costs that developers must charge…but i can assure you that if a organization required ie7 they would charge no less to a consumer (corporate or otherwise) simply because of that fact. they may have improved their cost structure by a few 100’s of a percent but that’s probably it. nothing would happen to the actual cost to the end user meaning…no perceived benefit by the end user.
Admittedly we underestimated the strong community behind the Opera browser. Our intentions thus far have been to provide the common user with a path of least resistance (hence such a large Internet Explorer 7 button). Since we want SaveTheDevelopers.org to speak to the interests of developers and the community in general, we’re adding an Opera link to the page as I write this. Please feel free to send additional suggestions and requests to info [at] savethedevelopers.org.
Matt #22, you should think that people outside the US and Europe not always have a 19″ flat screen…
There’s a lot of irony in how backwards-compatible web apps have to be …
As a Firefox devotee, I’m happy to see that usage among TC visitors is so high. In less technical circles, though, our experience is that IE is still dominant, including the dreaded IE6.
Here’s the latest breakdown for Bplans.com, our free content site for creating business plans:
43% IE7
34% IE6
18% Firefox
5% other
this is down to Microsoft and the validation of windows before you could download it. I thought they had fixed this and were going to roll it out to all users that had auto update on no matter the status of their windows.
Its not that bad, once you know its limitation you just build in a ie 6 stylesheet switch.
I’ve got to second the info that corporate users are probably the highest percentage of users that have not upgraded their end users to IE7. I know quite a few places that haven’t due to IE7’s incompatability with some of thier web framework (and all of these places us SAP framework in question). So they are waiting for the framework to meet the browser demands.
My personal opinion is that all websites should block old browsers from seeing their site so that you are required to upgrade. What would buisnesses do when the site’s their employees are needing to do their job are blocked because the IT department or framework developers don’t anticipate these publicly milestoned upgrades.
This is nothing more then a marketing opportunity for them to sell t-shirts.
wake up, people
all - thanks for an intersting thread/conversation…
parting shot - Trae…that wouldn’t work because the market doesn’t like to be held ransom. consumers want suppliers that are easy to do business with. if 100 suppliers make that change and 2 of their competitors don’t…those suppliers requiring that the market do business with them a specific way using tools driven by the supplier…typically lose market share. no one wants to do that.
Maybe the stupid noob Dreamweaver using “developers” could actually learn how to code.
This is a great thing. However, IE7 is only marginally better than IE6 and IE8 only slightly better than IE7 (yeah yeah, it *almost* gets the CSS right now but the rendering and javascript performance is still TERRIBLE because its just a re-hash of the same dodgy old code!).
SaveTheDevelopers.org: Do us a favour - Remove IE7 from the recommended browsers list. Please!
IE6 is great for developers! It gives us hours and hours of extra work.
Supporting Opera buys more than 2% of the market — it ensures that your website does not rely on Firefox’s bugs (I’m looking at you Google!).
And with new CSS3 features and new JS engine in Opera 9.5 supporting it is just plain pleasure.