When Will We Have Our First Valleywag Suicide?

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1. lolattack
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:09 pm

   I, for one, would LIKE to be included in a ValleyWag rumor mill story. Too bad no one has no idea who I am. :wtc:

2. lolattack
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:11 pm

   Btw, Mike, I think Juicy Campus will be the next deciding factor in someone’s potential suicide.

3. Thomas
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:15 pm

   tmz is far more interesting..

4. bbp&me
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:16 pm

   VW sucks. i used to give them some juicy tips that they ran with. recently, i made a negative comment about VW (under a different ID) and now my account is “disabled”. i emailed them two weeks ago and have heard nothing.

   i now give my tips to kara.

5. Faramarz
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:17 pm

   Necessary post Arlington. Thank you!

6. sean percival
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:22 pm

   What an outlandish headline!

   and by outlandish i mean appropriate.

7. shel israel
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:26 pm

   I don’t read Valleywag. I wish others didn’t read Valleywag. It would make them irrelevant. They are one of a half dozen sites that serve no good purpose, but they certainly hurt and embarrass people who do not deserve it.

8. Don Jones
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:28 pm

   ‘Wag’arrazzi?

9. Ryan
   

   March 2nd, 2008 at 10:29 pm

   It’s the Internet , you got to have thick skin!

10. Morgan
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    When will we have our first Techcrunch suicide? Depending on the person’s stability, business/tech criticism could be just as, or more, traumatic. The bottom line is someone who pegs their will to live on what someone posts about them has waaay more problems, than VW, JC, or TC’s writings.

11. Jay
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    It’s a net centric tabloid with quicker turn around time than the National Enquirer. The NE gets sued all the time right?

    I’d guess that Valleywag will fall out of favor like Pud’s FC or that VC oriented lawyers will apportion or trade in a legal war chests to bury sites like these (that have advertisers) with cease and desists, etc…

12. Ze'ev
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 pm

    arguably people like Jakob Lodwick brought this upon themselves and then the rest of us.

13. Caligula
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:35 pm

    Um, Arrington? Did you not notice the INCREDIBLE irony of the “technology visionary” at the center of this scandal and the nature of his visionary company? THOUSANDS of people have wound up with private details spilled out in the “encyclopedia that anyone can edit”, in which “anyone” also includes “obsessive stalkers” or “corporate rivals” or “batsh*t crazy ex-girlfriends”.

    I could care less who he’s doing or with what plastic appendage, ValleyWag ain’t nothin’ but the second most popular Web 2.0 scandalsheet. Those who have had their dirty laundry aired on the first have been waiting for this comeuppance for a lonnnnnnnng time.

14. Mike Malone
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    Significant changes to our libel and defamation laws? Uh… like what kind of changes? While some of valleywag’s posts might hurt feelings, they’re mostly true (and they tend to acknowledge when they’re not). Last I checked, libel/defamation _never_ apply to something that’s true, ever, without question. Changing that is kind of anti-everything-this-country-is-about…

15. M
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    I like Valleywag…It makes the Valley feel more like Hollywood…which I think is exciting. I mean, how boring would it be if all we had to occupy our minds was technology? That’s just not human.

16. vaspers aka STR8 SOUND, Steven E. Streight
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:37 pm

    One of the problems is enabling webless anonymous/pseudonymic trolls to publish comments.

    In a tech blog especially, if you don’t have a website or blog, that others can respond to by posting comments on it, then you have no right to express your opinon.

    Harsh? Hell no.

    Why let a gutless, trouble-making ne’er-do-well internet hooligan vandal have your blog as a free billboard? Make the twerp start his own crappy little blog that no one will care about, and express his dumbass brilliant opinions on. Let him be vulnerable to flames, get a dose of his own medicine.

17. Ontario Emperor
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:38 pm

    There is the legal issue and the moral issue.

    Legally, I think that most people here would proclaim that Ozzy Osbourne was not legally responsible for the “Suicide Solution” influenced suicide, and would loudly protest if the record companies banned Osbourne et al from releasing albums that dealt with controversial topics.

    Similarly, although I haven’t read the Valleywag article or the blog referenced in the New York Times piece, both publishers are presumably not legally responsible (unless libel is involved).

    Of course, there’s the moral issue of how one can sleep at night knowing that nasty written material resulted in someone’s death. Those who do such things have to live with themselves, or live in denial.

    At the same time, Valleywag, Juicy Gossip, et al get their audiences from somewhere, and if we’re reading it (or, in my case, peeking into the occasional Springer show or tabloid), we have to live with ourselves also.

    But such moral issues do not stop there, since there are sins of omission as well as sins of commission. For example, there’s a huge camp of homeless people just a few miles from my house. I’ve written about it, but have I done anything to meet the needs of that community? Sadly, no.

    There’s enough blame to go around, but I think we all realize that we ourselves are not blameless, and that there is more that we can do to keep people from dying, wherever they may be.

18. vaspers aka STR8 SOUNDS, Steven E. Streight
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:40 pm

    Perfect example of worthless Webless Trolling is the comment right above mine, look at Comment #14 by M.

    Just a cowardly anonymous webless troll post, with no substance, no intelligence to it. Hellywood here they come, the valiant webless trolls marching into the muck and mire of base human depravities, like gossip.

19. Chris
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:45 pm

    I comitted suicide when Arrington didn’t write about my startup… I’m commenting from the grave. Boo! (cuz thats what ghosts say, right?)

20. Yakov
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    I think that they the gossip blogs can only grow, just look at all those tabloid newspapers.

21. I can't believe I agree with Mike
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:47 pm

    Wow. I’m usually disagreeing with you, Mike, but this time I share your disdain and disappointment re: valleywag and crap of its ilk.

    However, I don’t think we should be looking for legal solutions. Rather, more of us need to stand up to Nick and each other VW contributor and say, look, you’re an asshole. You’re a persona non grata online and offline. More importantly, we need to stop reading the trash.

    But alas, that’s the hardest of all, now, isn’t it?

22. Robert Scoble
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:53 pm

    I agree with #20: it’s incredibly hard not to read the trash. I’m really trying to step up my content that I’m putting out and going in the opposite direction and getting the smart people exposure in the industry. I sure hope that the thesis of the headline here doesn’t come true. I think it’s going to get a lot worse, though, as more competition for viewers come online.

23. D
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:54 pm

    Great post Mike.

    The gossip queens might have their fun reading Valleywag but unfortunatly there is almost always a victim to every post.

    You get an entrepreneur who puts everything on the line to get their startup off the ground and you then get some gossip queen (paid by the pageview) who starts spreading details of their private life all over the internet.

24. vaspers aka STR8 SOUNDS, Steven E. Streight
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Welcome to Amerikkka the Land of the Soap Opera-ified Everything.

25. Harry Maugans
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    And not even a single link to valleywag.com? Haha

26. Michael Arrington
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 10:57 pm

    Here’s when I read Valleywag - about five seconds after someone I know emails, texts, IMs or calls and says they’re so sorry and is there anything they can do to help. Assuming I have a clear mind, we’re talking about something on Valleywag that artfully tears me to shreds. I look, I find it, and I sort of spit up a little bit of thicker skin. The word gets gloomier but the day goes on.

27. Rodney Rumford
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    I have not read valleywag in months. pointless drivvel.

    I would rather read the national enquirer when i need something that does not make me think.

    just unsubscribe to their feed and you won’t be tempted.

28. Robert Scoble
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:04 pm

    Harry, 24, is there no one here who doesn’t know where Valleywag is? I seriously doubt it.

29. Markus
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:07 pm

    Wow, none other than Rachel Marsden!

    She’s the most ape-shit crazy bitch to ever come out of Western Canada (and quite famous around these parts for it).

    Let me give you an idea: think Ann Coulter meets Lorena Bobbit. That’s all I’ll say… you can google her name for the sordid details.

    Jimmy what were you thinking man? My heart goes out to you.

30. SearcH◆ EngineS WEB
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:08 pm

    Is this any different when TECHCRUNCH is reporting on a StartUp heading towards the DEADPOOL……???

    Think before getting defensive!

    You are essentially doing something similar regardless of how you rationalize it.

31. gilltots
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:19 pm

    mike is this a shout out for help? you sound a wee bit depressed in this post. might be time for a vacation.

32. Jordan Golson
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:27 pm

    What would Jason Calacanis say? Oh right:

    “can i get a fucking link out of this!?!?!?

    wtf?!?!?”

    [It’s Extra Bulldog Photo Friday]

33. bruce
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 pm

    I’ve only read Valleywag a couple of times, just enough to realize that their shtick includes trash about people that would seem to deserve respect for their accomplishments rather than public dissection and ridicule. There’s room in the world for a Valley scandal sheet of some kind, but the personal stuff is too much. I’m just boycotting the whole thing.

34. Debbie Davies
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm

    Amy Winehouse is a crackhead, look at her hair, what a creep. Should Jessica Biel be worried about her man not being faithful? Britney’s hair, Britney’s dad, Britney’s visitation rights. And so on. All from a site that Arrington is an investor in and which describes itself as ‘insanely addictive celebrity gossip’. Hypocritical?

35. Jordan Golson
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:38 pm

    Mr. Arrington,

    As a Valleywag writer, your criticism makes me want to shoot myself in the face. and you should cease and desist from further feeling-hurting.

    Best,

    Jordan Golson
    Writer — Valleywag
    Gawker Media

36. JosefVirek
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:41 pm

    #34, you guys aren’t funny.

37. Sad
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    I don’t have nearly the legal expertise to defend my point but I’ll try nonetheless. I find something fundamentally wrong with applying libel, defamation and privacy laws developed pre-internet to the present day everything-is-indexed-indefinitely world.

    A blog post in 2008 can have a more long-term impact on an individual’s career and personal life than a front-page newspaper story 15 years ago. 15 years ago, a prospective employer couldn’t say, “Find me every article ever written about Joe Candidate” Now they can. And so can co-workers, investors, girlfriends, children and parents.

    If the NY Times wrote a 1 page article claiming I’m a “drug addict”, at least I’d have a clear target to sue. And chances are that not everyone I ever knew or will meet even saw that page or picked up the paper that day.

    Today, the cost of negative press can be astounding to an individual and there are more privacy laws to protect the person posting the hate and safe-harbors for the site they did it on.

    Perhaps its a privacy issue…maybe you and I have our privacy at stake when third parties write something for everyone else to read for all eternity. Maybe people should be able to request that search engines suppress certain results. Perhaps electronic defamation law suits should become streamlined and easier for the average person to initiate.

    I’m not saying I have a solution - but I think a stronger discourse needs to occur as the ValleyWags, JuicyCampuses and other sites ruin peoples reputations for life. Even a Bankruptcy is gone after 7 years from your credit report but a Google search result is for life.

38. The Capitalist Pig
    

    March 2nd, 2008 at 11:49 pm

    Michael - you’re asking the WRONG question. It’s not when will the first suicide happen, it’s “When will the first MURDER happen?”

    What goes around, comes around.

    These lame, scarcity-minded “journalists” that make a living from trashing other people will, ultimately, get what they have coming to them.

    I know a lot of people that if VW posted a bunch of crap about them would respond by KNOCKING SOMEONE THE FUCK OUT.

    Our society has become a bunch of pussies. BUT… fear not, there are still quite a few people that WILL fight back if they are cornered. Nick Denton, and others that are spewing such garbage better watch out. I think it’s only a matter of time before someone retaliates over this type of stuff. We very well could soon be reading news about Nick, or any of these others, being MURDERED.

    * And for the record, as much as I think these writers are scumbags for trying to make a ‘living’ by bashing other people, I certainly wouldn’t want to see any of them murdered or harmed.

    BUT… it does make you think. It’s only a matter of time before they pick the wrong ‘target’ that’s going to show up on their doorstep.

39. Owen Thomas
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 12:27 am

    On behalf of Valleywag, I apologize to everyone for the lies we promote on the web. We have tried hard to follow Britney Spears to the hospital but they are not admitting us because we don’t have insurance coverage. We are waiting for Hillary Clinton’s Universal Health Care. We are also waiting for the new President to raise the minimum wage to five dollars an hour so that we can have some decent food. Once we get basic necessities like food and health care, we will stop our crap machine. I once again apologize for all the nonsense. Wait till Hillary to become President.

40. Caligula
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 12:37 am

    Anyone that ever read “Mac Confidential” knows that Owen Thomas is a serious writer with chops that can’t be denied. The Gawker Empire simply likes to tweak people with massive egos. Arrington qualifies — hence his trouncing around here like a pansy hairdresser. (copyright 1982 Ian Faith)

    As for “Capitalist Pig”… HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh man, really, you had me going there for a minute. Yeah, I may have been born in the quaint little part of a midwestern city that the inhabitants call Terrortown but man, I can’t jive with the way you Silicon Valley gangstas roll. I’ve heard the older homies talk about the crazy gangbangin’ that goes down in the Stanford fraternities. They get kind of a strange look in their eye, like they’ve seen things that they’ll never forget. (shudder)

41. Creepy post above
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 12:43 am

    Yikes…

    Anyway when you get tore to shreds by others words - gloat a little, talk about it with friends and then pick yourself back up. It’s a cycle, but suicide is not the answer - it’s the end!

42. DJCarbon43
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Dudes (valleywag writers),

    I’m sorry, but you’re just played out. A real comedian knows when to step back from potential tastelessness. You have become slaves to both your self-perceived humor (of which there is very little), and the almighty page-view.

    I really believe in humor, even dead-baby jokes… but it really isn’t necessary to make fun of suicide. In fact, it kinda sucks.

    Instead of mocking Mike’s post, I invite you to take a moment to reflect on what he is actually saying. Think about it.

    A former reader

43. john som
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:05 am

    Mr. Arrington

    you have just made their traffic once again exploded and made alot of people know about valleywag. Which side do you support really ?

44. Prashant
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:37 am

    You are so right Mike

45. Jack Dem
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:52 am

    there’s no link to this gossip site(?), so I had to look it up. useless info imho. kind of reminds me of that Simpsons episode when Homer runs a website.
    really man, worst and most uninteresting post I ever read on your site. you ought to write a post like this, but don’t publish it. at least not on your site. it’s like owning a pub, rule no.1: you never get drunk in your own pub.
    cheers

46. Julia Allison
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 2:04 am

    > Today I read all the sordid details about the alleged sexual encounter
    > between a notable technology visionary and a woman who appears
    > to be looking for as much publicity as possible.

    Shame on you, Mike! I thought this article was gonna be about *me*, but it’s not! :(

47. Darren Stuart
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 2:10 am

    I am pretty sure we have laws against this type of stuff in the uk. If you are in the public eye then you are fair game but if you are Joe public then papers can’t do this stuff to you.

48. Wayne Schulz
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 2:23 am

    Based on your article I followed the trail over at Valleywag and there seems to be a lot more to this than pure rumors.

    The appearance of conflict of interest as well as psychotic ex-lovers always is going to make news.

    Did not seem as bad once I read VW as I was expecting.

49. Scottitude
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:01 am

    Teenagers and children still in the developmental stages of life being taunted and humiliated by sociopathic parents of their “friends” notwithstanding, blogs don’t make people commit suicide; emotional instability and weakness do.

    I agree with Morgan; any adult who CHOOSES to end their life over a blog post, true or false, has deeper issues than being allegedly victimized by gossip-mongering post whores.

50. Jordan Golson
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:10 am

    Julia Allison, I heart you.

51. ipanema
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:11 am

    i love this kind of post. so uniquely TC. a great diversion.

    i didn’t read the other related posts on how Wiki-wiki was laid.

    i don’t think this people really go psychologically overboad with just a post.

52. bo
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:23 am

    Nick Denton, go eat a dick!

53. Jordan Golson
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:28 am

    Bo, not much of an insult, that.

54. hari devana
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:46 am

    I have been concerned about my kids watching movies that have unwanted material be it adult situations or profanity or gore. So I did some searching and found a dvd player that filters movies. This was the only one that survived copyright infringement lawsuit of hollywood. I bought the dvd player. For the movies I have at home (which I was hiding from my kids so far :)) I downloaded filters from their website. This was as easy as searching for the movie and hitting download to the memory stick. Then I put the memory stick into the dvd player, copied it over. Then played the movie. The storyline was completely unaffected. It just muted bad words and skipped over bad scenes. My son and I had a great time watching Terminator 2 without unwanted stuff.

    I HIGHLY RECOMMEND this to all parents that are like me. Here is the
    link http://www.cleanmymovie.com/

55. Dave Winer
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 3:57 am

    Mike, I don’t like VW, but I think you’re wrong in this case.

    I just read both of the recent pieces on the visionary and his angry girlfriend, and the issue is very much related to who he is and the integrity of the publication he manages.

    By coincidence yesterday I wrote up a long-standing issue I have with Wikipedia, that I don’t get any mention in articles on blogging (and also RSS though I didn’t mention that in yesterday’s piece). I’ve raised it quite a few times, even to the visionary, but since I’m not available for ‘fucking his brains out 24 hours straigHt’, the problem has never been turned over to his internal fix-committee, and people who want to know about blogging or RSS get the idea that other people did the work and took the risks that I did.

    In other words, you’ve taken the side of one sleazy publication over another. THe same question you ask in your headline could realisitically be asked about Wales’s publication as well. If they ever want to get their reputation out of the gutter, they should get themselves a new visionary. This kind of lunacy, where he leaves a trail of his conflicts of interest out there so openly and remains in charge of the publication tarnishes the rep of the whole publication. That’s definitely a legit area of public interest,

    ALso as a postscript if you and others in the tech press were a little tougher on the integrity of Wikipedia there might not be an opening for Valleywag. If you cared about the underlying story, if you were taking care of the real problem, then you’d have a legitimate gripe about VW publishing the sordid details.
    If the problems of Wikipedia were being discussed openly and seriously entrepreneurs might be busily at work creating systems that can’t be controlled by a guy like Wales.

    One more note, I think the stuff they’ve written about you is not like this Wales story, isn’t revealing anything that I or anyone else needs to know about Tc. And they totally distort stories, they ran a personal ad of mine from fourteen years ago, as if it were current. I think they’re pathetic as a gossip rag, often beneath contempt. So you know it takes a lot for me to take their side in a dispute. I think Wales is even worse. I’ve had several interesting disucssions with Denton, at least he openly admits to being a sleazebag. Wales on the other hand is well, I’m going to stop right there.

56. Raman VikramAdith
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 am

    Nasty gossip always sucks. It’s worse when published for the whole world to see.

    I didn’t know what ValleyWag was, but now I can guess. They are a pile of crap which should not be read by decent people.

57. james
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 4:51 am

    anyone seen the movie untraceable?! quite relevant reading this article…

58. Phillip Molly Malone
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:21 am

    I agree that this sort of nasty stories could indeed cause someone to take their own life, but I am sort of puzzled how you claim its fine to do this to Celebrities but not to business people in the public eye? Many celebrities don’t seek the public life they just want to make a very good living doing the thing they love.

    Perhaps you/they/we should take the words of Michael Jackson when he Sang “Start with the Man in the Mirror”. For example, Jason Calacanis on a Gilmore Gang or the gang or whatever the heck it is called recently called out VW and said how disgusting it was publishing stories about Tech startup people. Yet Mahalo is continuely jumping on what ever the latest Celebrity scandal is high in peoples mind trying to drive pageviews and get more value into Mahalo. If Jason is so worried about this, why doesn’t he take on himself to ban these personal celebrity stories from mahalo.

    So best of luck Celebrities both in and out of the tech world!
    Molly

59. mike
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:24 am

    One thing is to gossip about startups, another is to gossip about private lives. While I’m not a huge Arrington fan, I do see a difference here. We are all to blame, especially those of us who read valleywag and like the gossip.

60. SuperDude
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 am

    Mike: You can’t blame suicide on a website. The person is already messed up metally in the first place to think killing oneself is a solution. Just like a typical American, blame it on someone else.

    P.S: I’m an American, So I know.

61. rick
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:43 am

    if she were only looking for publicity she would have gotten with someone notable maybe and not someone a handful of geeks have heard of?

62. rick
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:48 am

    “Here’s when I read Valleywag - about five seconds after someone I know emails, texts, IMs or calls and says they’re so sorry and is there anything they can do to help.”

    It sounds like you’re friends with a lot of melodramatic morons, which has me at a zero on the suprise-o-meter

63. john
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 5:50 am

    The DEADPOOL is as potentially dangerous as any story from the VW
    Be wise and learn from your own wisdom

64. Max
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:01 am

    Mike,

    “Don’t blame the messenger.” To say that the folks VW routinely lampoons, tweaks and generally annoy are nothing more than people that “have no desire other than to build a great startup” is a joke. Tech people ARE the celebrities of Silicon Valley and are constantly trying to get themselves any press imaginable. Your site exists because of the desperate desire for fame and celebrity by half the assholes in the Valley. Wales? Zuckerberg? Jobs? Arrington? All desperate for attention. And VW gives it to them — in a fashion that is, generally, pretty hysterical.

    As for suicide — clearly the person is unstable to begin with if they off themselves. Killing oneself is nothing more than a last, selfish, desperate attempt to say “Look at me!” Don’t blame a blog when it happens — blame the ass the offs their sorry ass — they are the ones fucking over their friends and family, not a little site.

65. Alex Hammer
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:03 am

    I have mixed feelings about this.

    One the one hand I agree that the media - some more than others - can be too sensationalistic in their reporting.

    On the other hand, your own (Michael Arrington) “reporting” at times also strikes me as a bit self-serving.

    And strident:
    http://techleaders20.blogspot......gh-at.html

    IMO.

    Thank you.

66. Anon
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:12 am

    I wish techmeme would drop VW.

67. Owen Byrne
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:31 am

    Are we defending Kevin Rose’s privacy here? Because if so, we should remember that upon a time digg got it’s first big traffic spike via someone posting a link to photos hacked from Paris Hilton’s cell phone. Delicious irony indeed.

68. Paul Montgomery
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:36 am

    I think people in this thread who have made an analogy with the TechCrunch Deadpool have a valid point.

69. Fabian Schonholz
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:49 am

    Michael;

    With all due respect, aren’t you being a little hypocritical on this post?

70. Jon Wynacht
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:49 am

    It’s funny that Valleywag doesn’t know jack shit about the Valley. They create and write about a Valley that will sell, not a Valley that is. Take that crap back to Hollywood.

71. geomark
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 7:03 am

    It seems to be pretty popular these days for people who are going to commit suicide to take out some other people at the same time. That might take care of the VW situation in a hurry.

72. sarah lacy
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 7:19 am

    i do like valleywag and owen and nick a great deal. if there were a suicide– blaming valleywag is like blaming columbine on video games. there are clearly other issues at play. that said: i agree with mike on all the sex stuff. it’s gratuitous and damaging and really who cares?? get back to breaking company news guys!

    also- it’s incredibly glib to just tell people to get “thicker skin.” being personally attacked is a horrible experience no matter how much you can rationalize it away. and it’s even harder for spouses and loved ones. just because you’re starting a company or a reporter doesn’t mean you signed up to have your personal life dissected ala britney spears. some things should be off limits– not because of new libel laws but just because.

73. bavb
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 7:21 am

    re: suicide

    note to self:

    1. pretend that they want you to kill yourself when you read bad things about yourself. don’t give them the satisfaction.

    2. if you still feel like killing yourself, seek professional help immediately
    (there are many many freely available resources)

    3. tell your friends you want to kill yourself, ask them to help you.

    Don’t get me wrong, i know life/things/is/are complicated. But one CAN take simple steps when in trouble to find help.

    sorry for the lecture

74. Eve
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 7:35 am

    Mike,
    Thanks for the tip. Had you not published this, I would have never gone to valleywag.com and read the saga (and gone to the eBay auction - now at over $200 for a crappy T-shirt.)

    I spread it around the office, and everyone here thinks it’s a riot.

    That’s what you wanted us to do, right?

75. Anna Nicole
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 7:59 am

    #60
    “if she were only looking for publicity she would have gotten with someone notable maybe and not someone a handful of geeks have heard of?”

    You don’t understand. She would love to get her hands on someone notable, however, they are too wise to her game. She is a serial stalker. She goes after men who are in the news and when she is done she smears them in public by disclosing embarrassing personal information. It’s her way of getting publicity. Google her name.

    I believe she is from Canada. I live in New York and we have a similary “woman” who shows up on Gawker from time to time. Very creepy.

76. Jim
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 8:14 am

    Sounds a lot like the May Report out of Chicago. This guy has been doing this type of work since 1999. Who got funded, Who got fired, Who is going under, etc. He publishes any emial sent to him, unless the emailer demands not to be published. He also protects identities of emailers.

77. dave
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 8:55 am

    oh spare me your fucking blathering bullshit…valleywag has zero to do with it - in fact, arrington - startups build their dreams around user adoption, then they get a writeup in techcrunch and you shit all over them without even using their fucking applications (common practice on this site: reviews without use) - they are, imho, far more likely to kill themselves and YOU are to blame and so it is YOU who shall seek judgement in the eyes of the raven…

78. tien
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:09 am

    I think one of the biggest ironies of vwag is that while they will not limit themselves to who, or what they write about, or consider any sort of consequences their writing brrings about, their censoring policy is on par with that of china’s.

    First you have to be approved to post comments, and ANY sort of criticism of the site or its writers will be quickly deleted and the poster will be banned instantly. Its one thing to write trash, but its another altogether if you’re not willing to accept it-and in my mind that’s perhaps their biggest evil of all. What exactly are they afraid of?

79. Bjorn Tipling
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:21 am

    Suggestion: more thread like comment system. This blog gets a lot of comments, and the discussions would be easier if it were threaded. The link to the forums isn’t a suitable substitute. Nobody goes there. Scoble posts in the comments, but not in the forums, for example.

80. Anand
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:26 am

    @topic

    My guesses:
    1. Robert Scoble
    2. M. Arrington..

    ..just kidding

81. Robert Scoble
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:30 am

    I hate forums.

82. Matt
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:46 am

    [troll]

    Valleywag are nothing but grown up MySpace bullies…

    furthermore, when congress passes digital-defamation reform sometime in the next 4 years*, I hope that Valleywag goes down with the jocks.

    Reality: Gawker, the entire network, is little more than buger flinging children who take their head out of their asses just long enough to write WAY TOO MANY posts per day… (they are clearly “quantity over quality” and it shines through in about 80% of the posts they “write”….)

    * Yes. It will happen. A child was murdered, this will become a bill that will become a law… if true justice is served it will bring down Valleywag (and possilby the rest of Gawker when Denton goes to prison for ignoring the new, serious, law. See, the law will go ahead and put this on paper: “An online persoanlity, however popular, does not automatically make that person a ‘Public Personality’.” Valleywag is riding the ‘public personality’ train to hell town. What fucktard said “i know, let’s make the national enquirer for silicon valley!! dozens will read!!” I can keep online life pretty rational most of the time, but Gawkers (and all their fake commentors) are a group i’d just love to have some face time with, in a closed room… yeah…

    Any “blog” that has private/closed comments are cowards. They are even afraid of the crap they say and they refuse to have anyone call them out on their own page…. you see, Arrington gives a fuck… talk shit about him or his articles all you want (if you are a crass moron who oughtn’t be allowed oxygen your comment will be deleted for the rest of our sakes)… if you have a point, he might actually defend himself or debate you openly… gasp…. does valleywag ever defend? NO! Even in these very comments… did you see defense? no.. offense, offense, offense… children. I hope they all contract very painful illnesses today, and that they each one get very bad news about their favorite food. (Something like, It’s really made out of sperm… or something.)
    

    P.S. Techcrunch is to blame because some idiots pitched their app before it was ready? Or they made such a lame product, thought it was viable, pestered Mike constantly until he gave in and wrote them up… and what do you think then? he’s supposed to kiss all ass because his blog is read by a lot of people… fuck you assholes. Dont balme the messenger anymore… blame the VC who decided not to fund the app that sucks. Don’t blame mike for pointing out the obvious… Mike doesn’t “make or break” anything.. he simply blogs about startups, honestly. THe problem is with naive entrepreneurs who think their app is ready when it’s not… they go looking for the devil and they find him. Period.

    P.P.S. $500 to anyone who can produce a photo of Nick Denton:
    A.) Naked (or in his strawberry shortcake under-oos)
    B.) Kissing a man (with tongue) again
    C.) Tying off his arm for his next crystal meth-amphetamine injection (an extra $100 if you get one of Jordan Golson’s ackwardly large dumbo ears in the shot, he’s there for his “600,00th hit handjob”, of course.)
    D.) Chasing after Mike Arrington for an autograph &/or sound byte
    E.) Desperately trying to figure out the real identity (and falsely reporting it multiple times) of a “fake” celebrity blogger.

    This shouldn’t be too hard to accomplish as these are regular practices at VW/Gawker.

    

    [/troll]

    P.P.P.S. To Dave Winer… It’s not at all unlike your theories on “beating the republic party” .. aint that right? forget about wikipedia…

83. Joe M.
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:49 am

    Michael,

    Like it or not you are a celebrity to all people who want to have a great startups and so are all the other people that have successful startups. If people want to read about it, that makes that person a celebrity.

84. Emma
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 9:51 am

    Yeah, I hate Valleywag, especially after the prostitute started writing for them. I also got my account blocked for writing a negative comment on one of the posts.

    I’m not surprised though, Valleywag is owned by Gawker, and the quality of writing and content has just gotten worse and worse. It sucks that they had to bring hollywood to the valley.

85. Lewis
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:16 am

    The biggest problem is that nobody finds any of the Silicon Valley people to be real celebrities, except themselves, a small handful of start-ups and these strange women seem to have an insatible desire for attention and validation of their ‘beauty’. It’d be ideal that Valley visionaries understand this and stop getting caught up in it.

86. Him
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:26 am

    @ 84

    prostitute? whos that?

87. alex
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:33 am

    I don’t get Valleywag. Every time I read it, I get depressed. There’s rarely anything positive, upbeat or supportive of the industry. It’s all worthless tittering. Furthermore, they are real jerks in how they treat people.

    I say screw ‘em. I’ve long since stopped reading this useless pile of trash. Better off reading the National Enquirier, which actually does a better job of vetting sources.

    The end of Valleywag will come in a monstor lawsuit — trust me. These guys invite libel suites everyday. And then we’ll finally be rid of this disease.

88. Saptarshi
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:37 am

    Michael, you have probably made Valleywag even more popular with this post of yours. Valleywag wants you to talk about them and thats what sites like this want… Any kind of publicity is good publicity and you’ve helped them!!

    I’m wondering if its one of the viral marketing things that you have done for them… Or may this post was done to increase Valleywag’s traffic and in return those guys won’t write raunchy stories about you ??

89. Mike P.
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:50 am

    Haha this is gold. Mike, you add fuel to the fire. Update your disclosure, you must have a stake in valleywag.

90. Marah Marie
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 10:53 am

    @Him:

    We don’t mention her by name because trust us, she’s a prostitute. That’s what’s keeping page views up at VW these days - “horny” writings from a self-described (this is in her own words, people, don’t flame me) “whore”. She also describes herself as a “tech writer” (when her multiple personalities are kicking in, no doubt - or maybe that’s her “delusions of grandeur”) which caused me to laugh so hard one night I stopped breathing. Should I sue VW for any of my resultant brain damage? That was sort of not so funny.

    What’s funny is that I hate to say that Jason Calacanis was right about anything except AOL, but darn, he sure was. He called Nick Denton a “sleazy pornographer” years ago when they had a big fight on VW over rumors of who got fired at AOL and while I dismissed his comment out-of-hand that day as simply slandering Nick for no good reason (Nick ran a slightly more decent and completely porn-free VW back then) I agree with Jason on that now, 100%.

    Nick’s porn empire has even come to include ValleyWag itself, and he’s even “pimping” his own prostitute on it, who he pays, what was it again, $5 per 7,500 page views or $120 a day for 12 so-called “posts”? You can take the pimp out of the porno world, I suppose, but you can never take porno out of the pimp. The prostitute he’s running with now is proof of that.

    Thanks Jason - for opening my eyes to how true something you said years ago really was.

91. Matt
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 11:00 am

    @#88 .. stfu… look at the numbers… VW doesnt need TC help getting numbers, ok.. we all know about VW and this post was poignant… take your head out of your ass.

92. P
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 11:19 am

    “But for people in Silicon Valley, who are not celebrities and who have no desire other than to build a great startup, a post on Valleywag comes as a huge shock.”

    You’re kidding right? You aren’t kidding? Read #55 and tell me that again with a straight face. The reason they’re here is because they want to be the next gazillion dollar IPO (or Google aquisition, these days).

93. mess
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 11:47 am

    Arrington - how many private emails have you posted up on TC? More than a few. You’re guilty of the same lack of integrity - anything to drive traffic (see headline for this post). Your hypocrisy reaches new levels every few weeks. And everyone at VW knows it, which is what makes your personal life fair game. Remember when you posted that image from Obama’s site comment section with the N-word and other racist comments for the world to see? Just telling it like it is, right? Had to use that example, there weren’t any less offensive available? Don’t be such a baby, it’s really uninteresting. Surfer dude.

    No one is going to kill themselves over any of this bullshit.

94. sami
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 11:54 am

    In an unnecessary quest to get some more respect in the Alley, Arrington shoots himself in the foot.

    It looks like Denton’s ValleyWag is actually doing a good job of uncovering abnormalities around Mr. Wales of Wikipedia, while Arrington is giving the impression that he would have let it go cencored if it was exclusive news to him.

    Or just jealous of them breaking the news.

95. jon
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:16 pm

    so what if valley wag is a lil more gossipy? is it coicidence this valleywag-bashing article came just after valleywag published an article about arington blaming VW for his lil break-up.

    mike, dont let your personal life (or lack there of at the moment) affect your blog.

96. Anup Jadhav
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 1:38 pm

    First things first. Don’t overreact. Even bad publicity is good publicity.
    You must know that.
    Now, when talking about suicides is a bit extreme. It also implies that you believe ppl are weak enough to take their lives because some blog post made their sex life public, or defamed them (for e.g. Paul Tilley). That’s moronic.
    No wonder TED doesn’t bother to invite you.

97. joel maske
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 2:18 pm

    nick is an ass, but he knows it.

    with that, i assume (like denton) i’m entitled to my very public opinions.

    you get the picture.

98. Marc
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 4:20 pm

    “But for people in Silicon Valley, who are not celebrities and who have no desire other than to build a great startup, a post on Valleywag comes as a huge shock.”

    Perhaps many Silicon Valley tech people are sort of second-rate, wannabe celebrities. No desire other than to build a great startup?

    Hmmm. Many industry people I know are very into the parties, the dating, and the trips to Davos (or wherever). They like the titles, the money, and the limited degree of celebrity available to a successful Valley executable or tech visionary.

    Nothing wrong with it, but they should perhaps treat Valleywag the same way Hollywood treats the National Enquirer: tolerate if possible, and sue when it gets too outrageous.

99. Brian
    

    March 3rd, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    Mike,

    You’re above all of this. Vwag picks on you because a) you’re a celebrity in Silicon Valley and b) they wish they were even half as accomplished and influential as you are. Wasn’t Nicholas Carlson’s last job as a junior news hack at a sh*tty little outlet called Internet News? He obviously failed as a credible journalist, so he’s trying to make his mark as a gossip blogger. Pathetic.

    Don’t lower yourself to these guys, Mike. They’re just sad.

100. mike sux
     

     March 3rd, 2008 at 8:18 pm

     “But the valley was a much nicer place to live and work before the days of Valleywag.”

     You mean to say it was a place where scam artists like you could operate freely without being held accountable?

101. Phoenix
     

     March 3rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm

     Mike… I am sure people with brains can differentiate between Techcrunch and Valleywag..if someone avoids you after reading a gossip blog you might as well not have such a person in your life!

     Like they say, “Those who mind don’t matter and those who matter don’t mind!”

102. Paul Boutin
     

     March 3rd, 2008 at 9:31 pm

     I couldn’t help noticing that for all his carping, Mike’s first sentence admits, “I read all the sordid details.”

103. Marissa Meyer
     

     March 3rd, 2008 at 11:15 pm

     The worst part of Valleywag is the hundreds of suckup sycophant commenters who line up to brownnose on every article!

104. Marah Marie
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 1:16 am

     Marissa, you misspelled you own name? How very not-so-control-freak of you.

105. Paul
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 1:40 am

     Great post Mike, ignore the trolls.

106. hk
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 4:35 am

     Threatening suicide now are we, Arrington? Lol.

     You know why I like Valleywag? Because they’re funny, and they’re not afraid to mercilessly ridiculous, humourless, self-important buffoons like yourself. Spare me your “concern for the poor victimised Valley workers” - as usual, your concern is for no-one but yourself. I find your poorly disguised moans about your tough, tough life and mean, mean valleywag just sickening - why don’t you man up a little? Just for a trial?

     Face it Arrington - you don’t inspire people’s love. Rather the opposite. The same instinct that makes me waste my valuable time writing you this comment - ie, thinking you’re an absolute turd in desperate need of flushing - inspires Valleywag to dish the dirt on you, too. If you weren’t such a pompous little shit, we wouldn’t feel the need. You can hate VW, and perhaps you’re supposed to - I take a great deal of personal pleasure in seeing your massive head deflated a little each time they write, and I’m sure a whole lot of other people do too.

107. Charles Bronson
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 5:39 am

     I disagree…execs in high profile Internet businesses are the rock stars of the business world. They deserve all the attention they seek and then some. Other than the celebrity CEO’s that fill the pages of the smut rags, you don’t see conservative CEO’s seeking this type of attention, but be a CEO of a hot Internet property and wham…you’re on the pages of Wired and Fast Company literally overnight.

     I don’t feel sorry for any Internet exec that appears on Valley Wag. If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen and back in the obscure toil that most of us live in every day. They had a choice…they get all the trappings of the position.

108. Marissa Meyer
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 11:34 am

     @104: Just because there are other Marissa’s on the planet doesnt mean that the google one is the only one.

109. Marissa Mayer
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

     There can be only one Googirl.

110. Marah Marie
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 4:08 pm

     I won’t link to it here - out of the tiny sliver of respect that I have for Mike Arrington (imagine a sliver you have to view under a microscope, then divide it’s size by roughly 2 million), but for what it’s worth, #103 Marissa, #108 Marissa, and #109 Marissa, my comment to you is now one of the top *headlines* on ValleyWag. Please try to spell your own name correctly in the future. That’s all. Thanks.

111. Liz
     

     March 4th, 2008 at 5:58 pm

     As one who has been hurt by the yellow journalism, defamatory rumors, out of context half truths, and outright lies; substantiated by disreputable sources of Valleywag. I say “let’s hit them where it hurts”. The content of the stories is borderline-libelous and scandalous, and has damaged the reputations and hurt many good Silicon Valley executives and their families.

     Last week I noticed only two legitamate advertisers on their site, Alaska Airlines and BMW. So I called them and asked them why they would tarnish their brand by adverising on a site with rumor-mongering and sex trade. The ads were being served up without their knowledge and at least one of them is no longer there.

112. Marah Marie
     

     March 5th, 2008 at 10:28 pm

     @Liz, it seems to me they are out to destroy anybody and everybody in tech for the sake of online ad revenues, page views, and the (sick) fame and glory of it. You cannot do what they’re doing and have any principles, morals, scruples, decency, respect, or appreciation for people’s feelings nor for their right to privacy.

     They are treating techs and online personalities like celebrities but it doesn’t wash, nor does it work with but maybe 1% of people online who are so geeky and tech-minded that online authors and more well-known techs really are like celebrities to them. So there’s a limited audience for VW’s druck, and I don’t see that changing much in the future.

     Even if techs and online types become celebs in the eyes of all mankind overnight, VW would still be crossing the line from straight journalism into paparazzi style celeb-hunting with their exposes and seamy tactics. It’s not right. I don’t think Britney Spears and Lindsay Lohan should be treated the way they are by the press, either, living in a bubble made out of cameras and questions, unable to turn left or right and see no one staring back so they can just be themselves.

     While I’m not exempting VW from responsibility in the Wales saga, you have to think Rachel Marsden is a special case. She is very manipulative, and if she can’t get what she wants, she turns traitor and destroys whoever wouldn’t give in to her.

     Not only did she screencap and submit her IMs with Wales to VW, but she also stole, I forget, I think it was state secrets from her Canadian boyfriend, and when he dumped her, she did him in with the “evidence” too. Then she tried to explain that off with, “Oh, I guess giving me those papers was the least he could do since he wouldn’t buy me jewelry. ” Sure. She took those papers, no one just hands that kind of stuff off, especially not to a complete whackjob like her.

     You can say, “Oh, but VW still shouldn’t have printed all that about her and Wales”, but let’s get real - that’s what VW *does* and we all know it. So did she. She’s very manipulative. She has no class or dignity or respect for her um, “friends” at all.

     But I detest VW’s exposes all the same (no matter how informative they are, it’s still the lowest, snarkiest, most disrespectful form of journalism out there - I think the National Enquirer has more class than they do sometimes) and there’s no reason not to think that with enough of a protest, and with enough drop-off in readers, they may very well just knock it off. Keep up with trying to get their advertisers out of there, maybe you can make enough headway that you really will hit them where it hurts, not to mention you might sully their r