February 18, 2008

The UADA: Biggest Facebook App Co. or Marketing Scam?

Erick Schonfeld

38 comments »

uada-logo.pngThere is something fishy going on at Adonomics, the site that keeps statistics on the most popular Facebook applications. On its home page it lists the “Top 40 App Companies” as measured by how many times each company’s applications have been installed on Facebook. This is a useful list because it provides a snapshot of which Facebook app developers are doing the best by adding up all of their apps and comparing them in one place. For instance, Slide has 82 million installs across eight apps, and RockYou has 73 million installs across ten apps. But at the very top of the list is a mystery company nobody has ever heard of called the UADA with 97 million installs.

uada-chart.png

Forget for a moment that active users would be a better metric by which to rank the list (Slide would top that list with 4.9 million active users, followed by RockYou’s 3.4 million, and then the UADA’s 3.2 million). If you click through to the UADA’s profile page, none of its individual apps are broken out. Instead, there is a link to this placemarker Website indicating that the UADA, whatever it is, will launch on February 29.

The site belongs to Altura Ventures, the Facebook VC firm that is behind Adonomics. Conveniently, Adonomics calculates the UADA’s valuation at $223 million. (Nobody in the Facebook app industry believes Adonomics’ valuations, but that is a different story)

I called Lee Lorenzen, the CEO of Altura Ventures, who was coy about his stealth project. However, he did tell me:

The entity that controls all of those applications is a private company. The cooperative that represents all of those installs and has that valuation, that is essentially what is defined by the UADA. It is not an ad network. I am the interim CEO.

So the UADA, which I am guessing probably stands for something like the United Application Developers Association, is a cooperative of smaller application developers who collectively have about the same market muscle as Slide and RockYou. At least, that is what Lorenzen would like people to believe.

But there is a big difference between a startup that is rolling up Facebook developers (i.e., actually buying them) and a “cooperative” that brings them loosely together. From what I can gather, the UADA is the latter. That means that it is not the biggest Facebook app company. It is a marketing association. And for Altura to use Adonomics to imply that the UADA is more than it actually is seems a bit too self-serving for a site that is trying to positions itself as a neutral provider of market data.

With 16,000 apps on Facebook, it is getting increasingly difficult to get users to try out a new app. They are beginning to suffer from app fatigue. There are obvious benefits for smaller Facebook developers to gang together into larger networks where they can cross-promote each other’s apps. This is already happening in the social gaming category with Zynga and the Social Gaming Network. If the UADA gives smaller Facebook developers a leg up against the Slides and RockYous of the world, it might very well be worth joining. But unless the UADA actually owns all of the apps that it will be representing, it definitely won’t be in the same league as them. And it certainly won’t be worth the same, no matter what valuation methodology you are using. If anyone has any more concrete info on the UADA, please share in comments.

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Trackbacks/Pings (Trackback URL)

  1. Top Friends mest populær på Facebook « Colt Kommunikasjon
  2. Adonomics Blog » Blog Archive » Building the Social Suite of Category Killer Apps for Facebook

Comments

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  1. Thats Funny

    I’m a well known app developer and have some huge apps out. All I have to say is no one takes these guys seriously. The blog posts on that site read more like super long marketing e-mails. That site is a joke with their valuations and questions like “Is Facebook Worth $100 Billion? Yes, here’s why.” Another example is when they justify their 100bln FB valuation, they factor in the use of a shopping mall powered by shop.com which is owned by the same people.

    In game theory, there is always the case of maxi-min and maxi-max strategy. These guys prefer to take the maxi-maxi-max of every case with outlandish numbers, thoughts, and self-promoting garbage.

  2. Huge Developer

    I’m also a well known developer on Facebook. The UADA is a joke. I’m in close contact with other application developers and as far as I can tell, those UADA numbers includes the statistics of basically every application developer Lee has been in contact with. As far as I know - no top developer has actually been dumb enough to sign to be included in his rollup. Basically, Lee is pretty much lying - I’m pretty sure they are including our numbers in his rollup, and we never gave him any kind of permission to do so.

  3. makot

    UADA is like the Bush-league of FB apps (I’m for Obama and you dont wanna be Bush league anything!!!)….Loretzen built his first firm aggregating traffic, trying to do it again, the problem this time is….who is he aggregating them for and does it matter. No clue and it doesnt. Just another FB scam.

  4. Hugist Widget Maker

    I am a world famous widget maker - and the UADA is right.

    Erick, I would expect a rebuttal from Fred any minute now…and Mike, stay out of this one, it is above your pay grade.

  5. Brian Breslin

    So does UADA stand for united app developers association? this is just a guess.
    There should be an announcement next week w/regards to this. maybe the rockyou folks or slide folks know more about this.

    90M installs would be a formidable base.

  6. May lovelace

    Be honest please, no matter you are a corp or gov official. Web democracy is coming, you will face your trials at RateMyBossCafe.com some day!

  7. Just Wait

    Lee will be on here soon enough with a super long post of drivel and marketing BS. Unless the UADA wants to start paying me $10 CPMs, not sure what they can actually do

  8. Phil

    Appreciate this mention- Adonomics has always had an inherent conflict of interest in providing sales brokering services as well as application stats. This is just another example of the problem.

  9. Mark

    Lee “Facebook is worth $100B” Lorenzen is my God.

  10. Erick

    Im a galaxy wide known app developer on facebook and I think this UADA is the lose.

  11. Alex

    This is called Photoshop:)

  12. AppsMedia

    Cute.

  13. Slavish Excess

    I saw this THEUADA thing today as well. An hour of followup and research yielded zip. There is no way something this big on Facebook goes uncommented unless they have a waterboarding clause for violating their NDA.

  14. Anonymous

    I have been developing Facebook applications since 1963, and I have had over a trillion installs in the course of my career. You may have heard of some of my applications that have gone public: Worst Friends, Spider Wall, How many friends will you invite after taking this quiz?, Mitsubishi Inc., and the Soviet Union (collapse took place after I cashed out). The UADA is the biggest movement in Facebook Application history and only a fool would not take it seriously. It is in stealth mode and I have personally waterboarded everyone who has spoken of the possibility of violating the NDA.

  15. Davin Miyoshi

    The aggregate installed user estimates for developers with multiple apps is always grossly overstated.

    The aggregate installed user estimates that Adonomics provides is derived from a sum of the installed users of each of the developers applications. This does not account for overlap of the installed users across applications. Slide, RockYou and all app developers with multiple applications cross-promote their applications and thus have a high-level of overlap across their applications.

  16. Paul

    By my rough calc from the stats in the post, UADA, Slide and Rock You are averaging about 4% active users vs total installs. Call me a ‘glass half empty’ kind of guy, but doesn’t that mean +/- 96% of people didn’t like the app? Anyone spot a naked Emperor parading down the street?

  17. Jim

    @Paul:

    Facebook measures active users on a daily scale, so that means 4% of the userbase uses the application every day. Since there’s overlap from day-to-day there’s no easy way to extrapolate this number into the more sensible “weekly” or “monthly” numbers.

    Still, 4% every day isn’t too shabby.

  18. Marzipan from Toledo

    Perhaps we should just simplify things and use profit as a metric for valuation.

    …good grief.

  19. Paul

    @Jim, thanks for the clarification, monthly numbers might give us something to compare against website unique user stats…however, given the compulsive nature of Facebook usage I’d guess users use an app either every day or very rarely if at all, so I still say thats a huge proportion of users who didn’t like the apps…I actually think that is shabby…

  20. Jackson

    Isn’t this the equivalent of CBS also owning and publishing Neilsens data?

    There is a need for a 3rd party to publish audit-able FB app metrics, but it should be a truly independent organization.

  21. Billy

    “the Facebook app industry”

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

    ….

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

  22. Amy

    I haven’t seen anything on the UADA but I don’t regularly check in on facebook apps, nor am I a world reknowned anything but I am curious to see what comes up on February 29th.

  23. Aaron

    This is exactly what Lee was talking about at the last SNAP Chat down in Palo Alto. Opinions aside, as far as I know he wants to use the collective bargaining power of all the apps he can get under one tent to get better ad deals and better sponsorship deals than Slide or RockYou can get via their top spots.

    I think it’s too early to determine if, as some have said, this is a joke or not. Lee has been pretty clear about what he thinks is good about FB apps and why he wants to be involved. If he can pull this off, it’ll be very useful. Of course, there’s also a huge risk of collecting too many poor quality apps and alienating advertisers and users by claiming quality where none exists.

    If it works, however, we’ll all be looking back in five years talking about how brilliant it was. Lee jumped on a new platform and is trying to control it from as many angles as possible - funding, determining valuation, collecting metrics, ad views, etc. etc. From a business perspective it’s a great idea.

    If it doesn’t work, all these TC commenters (not a word) will be pointing to their comments right here and saying “I told you so!”

  24. tien

    I always felt there was a lot of fishy business going on with Adonomics, it’s interesting to read the comments here. After hearing him talk at the Snap chat in PA, it all felt like it was the mid-late 90s all over again, where the only number that was important was the user base/active user #–regardless of who they were (regardless if they were targetable/marketable), or if they even had any sort of ability to make money..

  25. drew olanoff

    what’s facebook?

  26. Dave

    @25, today must be your first day reading Techcrunch :)

  27. germain

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is a huge crock of $H^!. Lee (the guy who put together the UADA) uses questionable tactics and the Adonomics stats actually also include people he just reached out to but didn’t actually agree to join the UADA. He plans to go public with the group of apps…there is a small equity share with the developers of the apps…and yes he is planning on running his own internal advertising/cross promotion network as he heads towards his “Facebook is worth $100B” goal. Its all a huge load of marketing BS and if you knew Lee you would also know he is so full of it.

  28. germain

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that this is a huge crock of $H^!. Lee (the guy who put together the UADA) uses questionable tactics and the Adonomics stats actually also include people he just reached out to but didn’t actually agree to join the UADA. He plans to go public with the group of apps…there is a small equity share with the developers of the apps…and yes he is planning on running his own internal advertising/cross promotion network as he heads towards his “Facebook is worth $100B” goal. Its all a huge load of marketing BS and if you knew Lee you would also know he is so full of it.

  29. Ricky Bobby

    Not sure how one can try and build a relationship with developers or they with them when a little more business savvy person seems to be taking advantage of the engineering/tech focused developers working away at building great code that would be used by millions.
    See this discussion on the forum by a developer against the same guys:
    http://forum.developers.facebo.....981#p51981

  30. Patrick

    On the bright side, they give a clear list of Slide’s and Rock You’s apps so I can go and block all of theirs that I hadn’t found yet (I got more spammy notices from their apps than any others, so I’ll be damned if I’m going to use their crap).

  31. Jim

    @Patrick:

    ROFL, get off it. Those guys downloaded all the data en masse from Adonomics and then used it to launch a competing site. It’s hardly original, let alone a technical marvel.

  32. Tal Keinan

    Interesting. Another one of those posts where the talkbacks are better than the post.

  33. App Guy

    80% of app’s currently have incorrect metrics due to a bug this week that Facebook hasn’t fixed yet. One of my apps with 50,000 users is showing 278,000 and one of my apps with 249,000 users is showing -1,328,139. This is probably resulting in numbers on their system being way off as they’re just scraping the metrics from facebook.

  34. Marc Burch

    Another interesting play on Facebook. It makes sense to own a platform of apps to increase the CPM.

  35. Aziz

    I think that Lee is a smart guy, and here is why; if you read his Adonomics blog entry about building the social suite here, http://blog.adonomics.com/, you’ll find this line at the bottom of the first paragraph: “All of these speculations by the press and the blogosphere are actually a healthy part of the process.”

    Read further down to the 9th paragraph, and you’ll find this line: “However, I think that it was really the Windows app developer community that missed the boat.”

    Why do I think he’s smart? Well, if you own a PC today, you most likely use a version of the Office Suite for one application, or more. As a matter of fact, “Excel and Powerpoint make the world go’round” for just about every major US industry, and it’s only a small community of highly technical folks that use alternative apps, open source stuff like Google dabbles with, and of course, the Apple religious cult. Mind you, I don’t actually think MS software is the best, not at all, but they effectively determine the mass market.

    My observation is only that the rants, heard above, sound so similar to the Apple enthusiasts that love farting on moron AOL, PC & Microsoft users: basically, the same ‘ol story. But guess what? He hasn’t even said what it really is yet, but only hinted at it with an analogy, which may or may not actually mean that he is pre-empting a move that he predicts Microsoft, or some other big player will make in the future, and doing it in a much more inviting and favorable manner to the developer community, most of you.

    I, for one, am just happy to see a VC who, for once, is willing to take a risk and break from the long-standing industry tradition of feeding off of other people’s smart ideas and hard work, by co-investing with you all, the entrepreneur. My god, even if he’s dead wrong with whatever plans that we don’t know for certain, I think we should at the very least admire the fact that his plans involve some level of co-inventing and risk-sharing with other startups, something you’ll never ever ever ever get from an entity like Microsoft.

    Where is all the hate coming from? It’s like watching Americans answer questions about political issues they have never even heard of before: everyone has something to say for, or against!

  36. Aziz

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Facebook Developers and Adonomics have an ongoing discussion, linked to below, and I think its a good sign that you’re (Lee) on to something when Facebook starts scraping your stuff. You decide.

    http://forum.developers.facebo.....981#p51981