Amusing how many people are saying “Afghanistan doesn’t export oil.” Well, der. The points are that (1) the oil is in Central Asia, (2) the oil fields are not yet developed, (3) the oil will go through Afghanistan, but that country will not be the “exporter” (in the same way that Iraqi oil piped through Syria doesn’t become “Syrian oil”, and (4) this is about planning ahead, not what might be happening in the next 10 minutes.

I’m reminded of the comment from Australian broadcaster John Safran: “The internet allows us to pool our ignorance.”

Starting off with the Pakie puke named “Ghaus”….bozo, national interests may be served through primary objectives and secondary objectives. Your rant on the other hand misses its mark on both levels. The containment of China is already in the making through US outreach and the strengthening of ties with Japan, India and South Korea. Together, these nations alone would pulverize any future Chinese aggression, hence the current charm counter-offensive from Beijing towards all the aforementioned countries, including places like Indonesia.

Furthermore, China has been Pakistan’s closest ally for more than three decades. The US presence in Afghanistan is of mutual interest to both of us, for besides taking on the slow and painful state building that’s required in Afghanistan, we both want to see your country marginalized down to size like a good little puppy…Iran’s the same here, albeit with varying complications. The onset of a Liberal Afghanistan serves as a major catalyst and psychological blow to the International Islamofascist movements. For over a century, Afghans dug graves for two non-Muslim empires that employed aggression against our country. One was Imperial Britain and the other was the Soviet Union. No wonder you people hate us so, for unlike Afghans who embraced poverty as the cost of liberty, you have to live with the shame and humiliation of a hundred year old servitude to the British….you did the same for the Arab and Mongol invaders, hence the shameless reason for your Islamic “faith”. Let’s face it, the Hindus in modern India can be proud of not having changed their faith in the face of aggression, as you people did elsewhere. Many people aren’t aware of this, but the Arab warriors who took over half of Christendom and laid siege to much of the known world, had suffered their severest blow in Zabulistan, the old name for the Kandahar region….ironic, isn’t it? Our people converted to Islam partly out of choice and partly out of murderous internal tribal rivalries. Yet even still….Muslims we Afghans may be, but we will soon show you where you can stick your “Islamic brotherhood”, “Jihad”, and your Khalifate, for Afghans are first and foremost a free people under god.

Neon

JD,

No offence intended here, but though Abdullah Abdullah may travel a fair bit, he hasn’t been the foreign Minister of Afghanistan for about a year….the current Afghan FM is Dr Rangeen Dadfar Spanta.

Stephan Harper,

If you did something good for the sake of it being the right thing to do, then shouldn’t that be enough? Or would you not feel satisfaction unless you get a pat on the head too? The Canadians are in the thick of it and hold themselves honourably…they know it, we know it, and that ought to suffice in my humble opinion.

Peace to you both,
Neon

If the US had the intent of catching or killing OBL, why did it wait until Dec 2001 before bombing Tora Bora - the most likely hiding place in Afghanistan? It’s not like they didn’t know about the place. They were in Afghanistan for a full 2 months before it was even considered.

Oh, and Neon seems to be watching a bit too much Fox News. “Islamofascist” gave it away.

Stilgherrian

Your ignorance is diabolical. For starters, the day which sees Central Asian oil and gas exports flowing through Afghanistan, would be the day Central Asians would truly enjoy liberation from Russian Imperialism, not to mention the benefits this would bring to poverty stricken Afghanistan. Be sure to note however that politics is counterintuitive, so while you’re all pissing against poor old George Bush’s leg for his alleged thieving of everyone’s riches, you remain ignorant of the fact that it’s the Russians and the Chinese who’ve been busy monopolizing Central Asian commodities for themselves via their proxy client dictators in the region. The Afghans have been trying to get central Asian pipelines to cross their country into Pakistan and India since day one, yet the very first group of Afghans who began the negotiations had their plane blown out of the sky over Pakistani air-space. The complex planning of the assassination could not have been orchestrated by the dopey Pakies, let me assure you.

For Central Asia to gain additional routes to Russia and China for exporting their goods would be a god-send. What makes your rant so idiotic is your implication that the US has any chance of monopolizing CA commodities for themselves, hence bypassing the current routes through China and Russia!….duuuh way to go sport…one would think you’d be smart enough to recognize that the more choices one has, the greater his bargaining power, ya think?……..as for “pooling your ignorance”, this site takes the cake for that pal…bwaaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa….

Peace,

Neon.

Neon,

Dude.

I think you should be called Neo. You are ‘the one’.

You’ve got it going on my friend.

Cheers.

Bill Ding

You’re addressing a guy who lives and breathes Afghanistan, and yet THIS is the objection you come back to me with? Bwaaaaaa Haaaaaaaa Haaaaaaaa Haaaaaaa…..”Bin Landen”….”Tora Bora”………and yet you think I’m the one influenced by a single network? Bwaaaaa Haaaaaa Haaaaa……you idiots bag Bush for invading Iraq, with an underlying reason you’re incapable of comprehending. And yet you’d like the US to bomb sovereign, nuclear powered Pakistan? Be sure to note that this will happen with extreme prejudice, but not just yet….when Bush tells you the war is for the long haul, you’d better start paying attention. Most leaders – Republicans and Democrats alike – will follow the “Bush doctrine” in foreign policy, once in power….the future well-being of the United States depends on it…..you’ll see.

As for your linking Islamofascism to Fox News….oh boy….son, you’ve a lot to learn and I’m merely a drifter who’s temporarily paying this Blog a visit to quell my boredom. Either you try and learn from my two-bit’s worth, or you don’t. If you live in a Liberal Democracy as I suspect you do, then try and use the freedom you enjoy by verifying what I say…….there are countless sources at your disposal for research, so use them with reason.

Peace,

Neon

Is youtube now zensoring political videos too? This video summarizing lies of American authorities about Iraq and 9/11 is not getting it’s “viewed” number increased. It’s allways 1,752. No more comments, no more favs are stored.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd_iqoStcYg

WTF? I thought this was a tech blog. Ive never heard so many 2 bit political opinions. Even Duncan Riley is suggesting to the that the Taliban were possibly not any worse than the current government because of this one incident. We have NO idea what the circumstances of this incident is. ARRRGGGHHH. Im turning green…

Yo keef,

Thanks for the kind words pal….I’ve came to learn long ago that the greatest friend one can have is he who seeks one’s freedom…every now and then I surf the net to let people know that little old Afghanistan may not be much for a trophy, her people may be illiterate and ignorant, some have decended into madness and lost their moral compass, but many in there are grateful and look to you for hope. The country has withstood many violent storms that came her way, but she finally got knocked down, over and over again, and now needs a little helping hand. When people mock the US government and her allies for doing just that, they in fact expose their complete lack of human compassion….so much for their tree-hugging concerns! We either help Afghanistan and support her long recovery, or we feed her to the same dogs who attacked the US….and that’s all there is to it…

Peace,
Neon

Gareth,

Duncan Riley is stupid, and evidently, so are you. Fancy you bozos lecturing me about the peace the Taliban afforded, compared to the current government. Be sure to note that today’s Afghan government may be chaotic, given that several warring factions had to be accomodated initially, not to mention the reurn of 5 Million refugees who otherwise stayed put during the Taliban’s glorious days. The so called security the Taliban afforded was the peace you’d find in the grave. Anything else you’d like to add?

Gareth,

Duncan Riley is stupid, and evidently, so are you. Fancy you bozos lecturing me about the peace the Taliban afforded, compared to the current government. Be sure to note that today’s Afghan government may be chaotic, given that several warring factions had to be accomodated initially, not to mention the reurn of 5 Million refugees who otherwise stayed put during the Taliban’s glorious days. The so called security the Taliban afforded was the peace you’d find in the grave. Anything else you’d like to add?

Here in Canada we have the equivalent of a ‘clerics council’ known as the CHRC / CHRT. They are in charge of supressing dissenting opinions found on the Intnernet that might offend the tenets of multiculturalism and equality. Large fines and life-time bans prohibiting expression of unaproved opinions are the result of their rulings. Failure to abide results in being sent to prison. Enthusiastic proponents of this system are jewish pressure groups and censors like Richard Warman and Warren Kinsella.

1. Why the “US-backed” label? Are you pretending that the UN, and most of its nations, don’t back the new government in Afghanistan? It’s as if you’re using “US-backed” as a negative connotation.

2. “What exactly are Americans and coalition forces (including British and Australian troops) fighting for in Afghanistan again? Feel free to remind me in the comments.”

Well if you’d had read the entire article at CBC, you’d have read this:

“The case now goes to the first of two appeal courts. Kambaksh, who has been jailed since October, will remain in custody during appeal.”

Ah, appeal courts. I wonder if the Taliban had those.

That’s fine though Riley. Maybe if the US pulls out of Afghanistan, you’ll suddenly realize why even Jan Egeland, the former United Nations Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, argued just today that the mission in Afghanistan MUST continue and the Taliban must be confronted resolutely.

Hey Duncan, stick to tech news, you’re making an ass out of yourself writing about things you have no farking clue about.

I realize this isn’t the sort of story usually covered by Techcrunch because it doesn’t involve a commentary about a company that has a 2% chance of existing in 12 months, but if you’re going to blog about the war in Afghanistan and mention the coalition you’d better not forget your neighbour to the north, Canada.

The story you linked to was from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. You aren’t likely to see that story on Fox News.

Leaf-roller,

This sounds like familiar leftist hypocrisy….”do as I say, not as I do”. A man knows he’s the king of his castle, when he finds himself free to say as he pleases. Let’s face it, if given the opportunity, we can all learn to be responsible people without the law holding our hands. Yet regrettably, this is something that’s lost to those whose good intentions are ruining our liberal Democracies.

Peace,

Neon

Yo George,

If I could paint a picture, you’d be my masterpiece…well said dude. I think we’d better quit before we get dragged into court for child abuse ;~)

Peace,
Neon

Neon,

Could you have another read of my post? Maybe read the whole thing twice. Let it sink in. The smaller point that im trying to make is that the statement by Duncan Riley that the Taliban was a better government in terms tolerance is ridiculous. - Thats what YOU said wasnt it? The bigger point I am making is that Duncan’s sweeping, politically ill educated statement, is indicative of a lot of the posts here. BECAUSE ITS A TECH BLOG.

By the way, Im not stupid, or a bozo. Im sure your not too. However, misunderstanding posts like you have, and attempting to insult me makes you look like a child. Try NOT flaming and being constructive, you may learn something from it.

Have a nice day.

George,

Precisely my point.

Bigoted diatribes on how all Muslims are terrorists and Mohammed was a paedophile (extremely historically dubious) - check.

Overt racist slurs (the word ‘Paki’ is almost equivalent in offensiveness to the n-word - this may pass by those who live in countries with relatively few citizens of East Asians descent) - check.

Self-confessed stoner labelling the Canadian anti-discrimination authority as a Jewish conspiracy - check.

Flagrant violations of the “don’t make more than one comment on the same post unless you have something very important to say” rule (including by me) - check.

Best TechCrunch thread ever! Thanks Donut!

The Taliban actively supported Al Qaeda. The reason for regime change is simple as that.

But let’s face it, the US can never win in situations like this. If we use military might to enforce separation of church and state, we are being evil imperialists and “forcing our culture and values on other people”. If we look the other way and let them govern themselves according to Islamic laws, we have effectively “installed a government of intolerance”, etc…

If you have an irrational hatred of the US, you’ll find a reason either way.

Fuck. This. War.

I live and work in Kabul; I’m a teacher. Westerner. Been here two years.

This website came up on a NewsNow search engine, so I just happened to come across it after a rough day at work.

Oil? All I can tell you is that the guards pilfer the diesel and water it down; the water freezes in the current winter cold and breaks down the generator. No power. snafu.

I’m amazed by the thread.

I understand it doesn’t pertain to the usual themes of TechCruch, but as a random find on a night off, it’s been an excellent read. Interesting.

Clearly, Afghanistan is a divided nation in conflict. As a Western teacher, there are people here who want me to leave. It is dangerous. There are others that want me to stay.

The reason I’m here?

My students are fantastic; grateful that I am contributing, and they are sincerely eagar to learn. I’ve lived and taught in many countries over the last 20 years, mostly working with rich kids in Asia, and in comparison the Afghan students are simply outstanding.

Life here is difficult. Daily frustrations. But I stay because education has a high value to the students I teach, and as a result the work is meaningful and important. I contribute to changing people’s lives, and the change is highly valued.

In the context of corporate interests and international power plays explained through the thread –all fairly reasonable to a higher or lesser extent (with the exception of a few moronic contributions)– there are the Afghan people. They have a great spirit, and they want the realities of daily life to meet that spirit.

Please note that Afghans are striving against great odds for a better future.

Give them a break.

So as you (The Terrorist American) asked, what are you fighting there? You are fighting Afghani people to impose your stupid ideology! And people will overreact to every thing forieng. Get our of my country and I hope they hang his ass, followed by yours!

Canada is also fighting in Afghanistan and it is self sufficient in oil production so why is it supporting a government in Afghanistan that is a disaster for human rights or even just plain decency.

@Neon, thanks for your thoughtful and polite response to my comment. Not. You read far, far too much into what I say, and then proceed to have a go at those perceptions. “Straw man” is the term…

Duncan’s original question was why we [that is, the US and UK and Australia] are in Afghanistan. The answer is primarily oil. And the reason is to prevent it heading north or east.

I’ve never said that’s a bad thing. Hey, we have to burn something to maintain our status as Big Fat White Westerners while a billion people have never even made a phone call and 43% of the world lives without basic sanitation.

But that’s OK, let’s not talk about that stuff on TechCrunch. [Waves to the other commenters]. Let’s just whinge that the new iPhone doesn’t have enough memory, or Facebook has taken down Scrabulous. That’s what’s truly important, right?

There’s nothing in what I wrote that’s even remotely anti-American or anti-Bush. It was an accurate description of the strategic situation. Not once did I say that I wanted some other strategic situation. If you find anything anti-American in that, it’s your own paranoia showing.

The only criticism I’ve made about the situation is that the we’re told it’s all about “peace and democracy”. If we’re going to war, let’s at least have the guts to state openly what we’re going to war for.

I agree with the people saying that the Afghani people’s situation will improve if they can share, somehow, in oil revenue. No question. I daresay they’re doing better now that Western troops are helping.

International politics is a lot more complex than screaming “stupid” and calling people “bozos”. It’s a game played about five layers deeper than what you read in newspaper headlines. But hey, keep screaming, it’s fun to laugh.

On a TECHNOLOGY forum, yes let’s whinge about TECHNOLOGY. Only a few people on this site (and they do not include me) probably have any idea of the details about the war - only a scant few soundbites given out by politicians and even then simplified for the Digg homepage.

I’m not saying that you can’t have an opinion about something you don’t know much about - hell, I have opinions about everything, and know almost nothing. But I don’t think my opinions about international relations - while interesting - are worthy of being on the front of a technology blog. Nor are Duncan’s.

This post should have been reserved for a personal blog, or posted somewhere more relevant.

Dear all

Karzai’s government lacks even the attempt to respect basic fundamental freedom of speech and the Afghan government’s clear fear to upset Talibanish Islamic judges shows the incredible masquerade that the US and Europe is ready to accept about Afghanistan.

Maybe we have just uplifted another masque, the one which covered the real interest behind the invasion of this tormented country.

It was a war of propaganda, a war which could have facilitated the acceptance of the real interest of Bush’s administration: Iraq and the redesigning of the Middle East. The hope of Afghan people and Sayed Perwiz Kambakhsh’s rights (and possibly life) were never the real reason for the war.

Best wishes
Gabriele

For more you can read my blog at
http://marranci.wordpress.com

Very soon all religion on the face of the earth will be brought to its own destruction, except for the one faith that is approved by the true God.
Most people including self confessed Christians are not even aware that this prophecy is clearly outlined in Revelation 18 and will be the main focus point of the great tribulation mentioned in Matt. 24: 21.
When religion is brought to ruin, then all people on earth will recognized the true faith left inscaved, but will retaliate against God’s chosen people and he will intervene on their behalf and that will be the coming day of Armageddon.
You would be shocked to realize that day is right at our very doorstep.

Dont you mean Matt 24:23? Matt 24:21 is the one where your not supposed to eat cabbage on a Friday. I make that mistake all the time.

No, Matt 24: 21 reads: “for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.” (New World Translation). Other translations are very similiar. We are about to face such catastrophic events that have never happened upon the face of the earth and never will again, because it means the end of mankind as we know it today. There will be survivors, but very few in comparison to world population.

Matt. 24: 23 reads: “Then if anyone says to you, Look! Here is the Christ, or, There! do not believe it.”

Matt. 24: 22 is the follow up to verse 21 that describes an event that will take place shortly upon the earth that will bring about divine intervention.

It reads: “In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh will be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.

There is only one thing that could annilate all flesh on this planet and that is an all scale nuclear war. There has never been anytime during man’s history where this could ever be reality, until now.
As you could possibly understand the conditions that are prevalent upon the earth, things are very unstable in nations that possess nuclear weapons, including the USA.

The chosen ones in reference with this verse makes mention of “the chosen ones!” It must not be confused with the Nation of Israel that carried that recognition during the time of Moses until 70 AD or CE when the Jews broke the covenant arrangment with their God Yehwah (Jehovah) for the second and final time. The first time was in 607 BC or BCE when Jerusalem was destroyed at both times.

WAIT! Does this mean I CAN eat cabbage on a Friday?

Yes, it most certainly does. Any of the foods or meats mentioned in scripture, especially in the old testament was strictly for the Nation of Israel only. Same as the Ten Commandments. They were written exclusively for the Jewish nation under a covenant arrangment with God and under a supposively curse called the Mosaic Law which was a combination of 600 different laws that coincided with the Ten Commandments.
Today we are under only 2 commandments initiated by Jesus Christ and you can find those two commandment at Matt. 22: 37-40.

Its cabbage party time.

Yes, cabbage rolls are the main stay ingredient for this Friday coming up…do enjoy if you do choose them.

Gareth,

I don’t know you personally, so I can only judge you by what you’ve said…tell me what I’ve missed here:

“Even Duncan Riley is suggesting to the that the Taliban were possibly not any worse than the current government because of this one incident.”

…do you see how easily I can conclude you to be a Taliban apologist? This “one incident” does not in any way render the current government comparable to the Taliban. You have mistaken the tree for the forest. Just to make a small point, over 5.8million children attend school today with access to a reasonable curriculum. During the Taliban regime however, the handful of boys who received any education, did not have a hope in hell of enjoying anything beyond indoctrinated recitals of the Quran in Arabic - a language that’s foreign and unintelligible to Afghans. Much like the Buddhists in Thailand reciting their prayers in Sanskrit, or Catholic kids reciting in Latin, the children of Taliban infested Afghanistan were expected to progress through the magical powers of meaningless semantics.

There’s simply no comparison between the two regimes. Afghanistan is a very poor, highly illiterate society, exhibiting a backward culture protracted by warfare and a general lack of choice among her hapless population. Only the Al Qaeda and their allies in Pakistan would have benefited from this, hence their support of a Taliban regime that effectively patronized and institutionalized the worst in Afghan culture. The current government by comparison, seeks to help bring about an environment in which Afghans can gradually transform themselves into something better….. the incident with the journalist is merely one bump along the way….

Peace,

Neon

Dear Don,

You’ve stated:
“But let’s face it, the US can never win in situations like this. If we use military might to enforce separation of church and state, we are being evil imperialists and “forcing our culture and values on other people”. If we look the other way and let them govern themselves according to Islamic laws, we have effectively “installed a government of intolerance”, etc…
….your point is well taken, thank you. You are wrong however, for there is a middle way to both your objections that only Americans have perfected in history and George Bush has actively pursued in Afghanistan.

The only thing Americans did in their effort to build a new Afghan state was to initially engage a group of Afghans with a sympathetic history of bias towards democratic institutions (like the late old king), and helped them form a basic democratic structure, blessed by a constitution secured through a consensus. This is all that the US has done, so it’s hardly “forcing a culture” on the people. The rest of the hard work in nation-building is left to the Afghans as it should be, albeit with a US led international presence to help Afghans build their institutions, while keeping to a minimum any future peaks of spontaneous violence. The government in Afghanistan does not consist of Yes-men, for anti-liberal groups compete freely with a minority of liberal reformers. The international presence merely evens the ground a little, favoring the reformers, albeit only marginally. NATO and allies in Afghanistan help the people “FACILITATE” a better future, rather than “DIRECTING” them in some utopian nanny state. I hope you can note the difference here.

Trust me friend, if all Afghans wanted the foreigners out, you’d be out. We’re no Arabs or Pakies to take dictation from others, as has been demonstrated by Karzai’s recent rejection of Lord Ashdown as a UN “Super envoy”. The only people remotely comparable to the Afghans are the historic Lothars, who gave rise to the Dutch and arguably stimulated the enlightenment and its crowning achievement – The United States of America. I don’t have to be American or a Christian to appreciate your glorious history.

Peace,

Neon

Dear Kabul Resident (International),

You are a credit to the human race. Both my parents attended Malalai and Istiqlal half a century ago in Kabul. To this day, my father talks about his foreign teachers as though they were gods. My deepest respect go out to you, thank you.

Warmest Regards,

Neon

Dear “Afghani”,

This wouldn’t be the first time a Pakie has left an argument, only to come back a fake Afghan. Your country will be scratched off the face of this earth for your collective cowardice and immoral shenanigans. It’s a pity that the good people here have no idea about the nature of evil languishing in your gutter.

Give war a chance,

Neon

Dear Archie1954,

Are we to blame the Canadian government for every bit of idiocy you spew here?

Peace,

Neon

Dear Stilgherrian,

You ranted, among other idiocies…

“…International politics is a lot more complex than screaming “stupid” and calling people “bozos”. It’s a game played about five layers deeper than what you read in newspaper headlines. But hey, keep screaming, it’s fun to laugh.”

….ahem….boy that’s deep…..and err…sorry for the pain I’ve caused your posterior. I’ll try and take it easy on you in future…

Dear Dr Gabriele Marranci,

I didn’t know liberal democracies award doctorates to pompous wind-bags, but I guess we learn something new every day…..let’s examine your rants bit by bit…

“Karzai’s government lacks even the attempt to respect basic fundamental freedom of speech and the Afghan government’s clear fear to upset Talibanish Islamic judges shows the incredible masquerade that the US and Europe is ready to accept about Afghanistan.”

The only “masquerade” here is your pathetic attempt to hide away all the progress made in Afghanistan to date, beginning with the schooling of 5.8 million children, the 10% annual economic growth, the proliferation of nation-wide media, and the gradual buildup of state institutions. It is with this progress that Afghans themselves will gradually overcome the vices in their rich culture. The international community or single states therein can be faulted for a lack of sound organization or lackluster commitment, but certainly not for wanting to hide anything. That there is a huge gap between where Afghans are and where they need to go, is as obvious as daylight to most, unless of course your some pseudo intellectual, languishing in some third rate community college.

“Maybe we have just uplifted another masque, the one which covered the real interest behind the invasion of this tormented country.”

…ya think if I were hiding behind a mask (learn to spell idiot), I’d avoid some third-grade discussion forum? Ya think?

“It was a war of propaganda, a war which could have facilitated the acceptance of the real interest of Bush’s administration: Iraq and the redesigning of the Middle East. The hope of Afghan people and Sayed Perwiz Kambakhsh’s rights (and possibly life) were never the real reason for the war.”

….stupid, Sept11 was no “propaganda”, hence the reason for the US led invasion of Afghanistan. God only knows how much Afghans tried getting the Americans to go after the Pakies and their Taliban proxies before that date, but the best that Clinton could do was to launch a few tomahawk missiles at the Taliban from miles back, while the people burned. As an Afghan, the “reshaping of the middle east” would be welcomed, though the advocates of such ambitions hardly warrant a done deal. Be sure to note however that no nation’s been hurt by the murderous and immoral politics of the region as Afghanistan has. Unbeknownst to you, the Americans are there to fend off a far greater war that’s been brewing for some time. So Bush the warmonger, will be recorded by history as Bush the peacemaker.

Peace,
Neon

@Tom Clarke
Indeed, some people know so little about illicit drugs and listen to all the scare stories and end up placing hash and heroin on the same shelf, which is such a naive and subjectable view of a media brain washed massed…it is unfortunate that poppy production has reached such high levels and flooded the streets with low cost heroin, however cannibas is a relatively harmless drug for adult use on a mentally stable mind