January 22, 2008

Noca Targets Transaction Fees with New Online Payment System

Mark Hendrickson

70 comments »

If you sell anything online, whether physical goods or services, you’re probably keenly aware of the 2-3% (plus $0.30) lost through transactional fees every time someone makes a purchase with their credit card. This fee rears its ugly head whether you use PayPal, Google Checkout, or Amazon Flexible Payment Service since those companies are largely just passing on the fees imposed on them by credit card companies.

Noca, a startup founded by ex-Visa employees, is attempting to virtually eliminate transaction fees by bypassing the credit card companies altogether with its own online payment service. Since $5 billion goes towards online transaction fees every year in the United States alone, and since online vendors have particularly slim profit margins, the company thinks that the near elimination of transaction fees would be a huge boon for online vendors. Concurrently, Noca seeks to provide consumers with a more rewarding and more secure purchasing experience, thereby making its service appealing to both actors involved in a transaction.

While Noca aims to eventually facilitate online payments for purchases of all sizes, it begins with a focus on micro-payments, and on micro-payments made through Facebook in particular. It has launched two Facebook applications to test its payments system out: OneClick Pay and HelpYourWorld.

The former provides a simple way to send money to friends. As you can see in the screenshot to the left, the idea is to send someone a digital check; you actually enter your routing and account numbers into the application instead of using a credit card. This poses a significant obstacle to adoption (who remembers these numbers or carries around a check in their pocket?). But the company insists that using checking information rather than credit card information increases security and reduces the chances of identity theft. Plus, Noca is working to provide functionality that would allow you to enter your online banking credentials in lieu of your checking information.

The latter Facebook application, HelpYourWorld, provides a good use case for Noca’s micro-payment system. Since the application solicits $1-at-a-time donations for a series of causes, it benefits greatly from Noca’s lack of transaction fees (especially the standard fixed one of $0.30). Noca hopes that many other Facebook applications with similar micro-payment needs will use its APIs to implement its payment service.

As for the benefits to the consumer, Noca promises to provide strong and flexible incentives through cash back schemes, frequent flier miles, and the ability to designate a part of your payment to a charity of choice. The company also insists that its service will be substantially easier to use than others like PayPal, and that consumers will gain access to a much more comprehensive transaction history than they would get elsewhere.

In the longer term, Noca will become much more like a credit card company itself, providing credit to users through direct partnerships with banks. In doing so, it will be able to provide users with the same benefits of buying things on credit without charging vendors standard transaction fees, which it considers mostly oligopolistic fat. To make money, Noca will also attempt to leverage its user data to target them with tailored advertising and product deals.

  • Sphere It

Trackbacks/Pings (Trackback URL)

  1. Noca: Transact Freely- At What Cost? «
  2. Finance Roadmap » New online payment system
  3. Noca, a new online payment system which doesn’t charge you transaction fees- by Gadget, shop online blog of TechChee.com
  4. Anonymous
  5. Knowledge Base: more articles « Oronjo.com
  6. Noca - New online payment system

Comments

RSS feed for comments on this post.

  1. T-Systems

    >who remembers these numbers or carries around a check in their pocket?

    That is why people have computers! There are many good password tools and form fillers available. I use (or example) iMacros which allows me to store my passwords securely in my Delicious account.

  2. Jeff Marks

    Interesting, sounds like payments 2.0.

  3. Matt

    With the high level of price competition online, I suspect business owners who use this system will just lower their price by 2-3% to get the edge on their competitors…

    On a side note, I hope they don’t just limit this service to somewhere like the U.S. only.

  4. Zach

    They will fail as did Bitpass and a ton of others who tried this. There is still one thing they are missing :)…

  5. Bokon Too Koonet

    Giving out your routing number is crazy. All somebody needs is your account # and routing # to drain your stuff….

    you might be protected using a visa check card to a certain extent, but far less so giving out those two items of data, even if it is once (to Noca).

  6. Pankaj

    @#5 Bokon Too Koonet - giving out your routing number and account number is no different than writing a check and giving it to someone. If somebody tries to “drain” your stuff they will be identifying themselves by giving out their account number to get the funds transferred in the first place. You can’t get cash with routing # and account # - only account to account transfer.
    Thats why fraud in online checking/savings accounts is so much lower than credit cards.

  7. Don Jones

    Lower costs for online merchants is always a great thing.

  8. Peter Antypas

    Great strategy: Build the company using an emerging market (micropayments) instead of competing head to head with PayPal et al.

    With good execution and some luck, this is classic disruption in the making :D

  9. damon

    wow, an interface on top of ACH, amazing idea

    oh, and giving out your routing number is not dumb, every bank out there has a page that tells you their routing number

  10. Puneet

    I echo Peter Antypas’s sentiments.
    wow…what a great strategy and a highly disruptive model and technology to back that up with.
    Great going guys! Keep up the good work.
    No more paypal or credit card fees - yeah!!!

  11. John

    German grandma and grandpas have been doing this for years. Americans are so far behind the rest of the world.

  12. Dheeraj Sultanian

    So basically this is a way for me to accept a check online? OKAAAYYY..um, stupid question but….what if the check bounces? Who covers it? ACH is not immediate, especially after hours. Am I the only one who thinks of these things while everyone is sipping web 2.0 kool-aid? Lets make it social! Lets see how many bad checks we can pass as a group! Woohoo - billion dollar IPO, here we come!

    This type of service cannot survive - too easy to game. Service like BillMeLater works better for merchants because it is backed by a credit-worthy institution. This is more like Web 0.5 rather than Web 2.0. FAIL

  13. CJ

    @12 Dheeraj Sultanian

    If the check bounces the check writer is generally charged a fees (about $25 or so ?) In ACH you don’t get the money until the check clears - usually next business day or the 2 business days later at the most. There is no float and hence (almost) no risk.
    If you’re shipping goods then simply wait a day when the ACH comes through and then ship the goods. If it doesn’t don’t ship the goods. Its that simple.
    Since the provider is not underwriting the transaction seems like this is the only option - but not too drastic since even with credit card transactionsyou get the money typically in 2 business days (ofcourse the difference is its guaranteed).
    Also remember the buyer can have a credit rating too - thats something you can use as “float”.
    Bottom line check/ACH is way harder to game than credit cards! In credit cards one side can be anonymous - in checking/savings/ACH both sides need to be identified with Bank level auth

  14. mmt

    looks like a great idea.

  15. Giro Grio

    > you actually enter your routing and account numbers

    I think the Giro system used in places like Germany pretty much runs on that. They’ve been doing offline transactions like that for decades. That’s why they were so late in seeing value in credit/debit cards.

  16. Tom

    Wow, let the astroturfing begin!

    Seriously, if your going to make shill comments that claim this is brilliant, don’t make it so obvious to discover your probable affiliation with the management and/or advisors.

  17. Sam

    I believe they have great idea.

    As far as worrying about giving out your routing and account numbers, that is what you are doing every time you write a check. Since they are also processing the transactions, they don’t really have to give out your number to the sellers. They can create a virtual number.

    Eliminating the fixed $0.30 fee enables people to sell low priced items with price tag of 99c.

  18. CJ works for Noca

    CJ, at least have the courage to identify yourself next time. thanks.

  19. Tech

    They will need to build trust first for sellers to use them.

  20. sandeep

    it is a great idea but must be certified by some authorised govt./international body

    I wish them best of luck

  21. Nikolay Kolev

    You don’t understand that it’s not the merchant who dictates the method of payment - it’s the consumer. I doubt there will be a merchant that will offer Noca as the only method of payment! Credit cards give consumers cash back bonuses, easy refunds till 90 days after purchase, they are credit cards, i.e. you have to pay after 20 days or more and so on.

    Also, AFAIK if a merchant accepts Visa and/or MasterCard, it’s against the agreement with the credit cards to require a surcharge to accept them. Offering a discount for Noca payments is effectively a surcharge for accepting credit cards.

  22. Competition- Paypal, RevolutionMoney and....Facebook

    Isn’t Facebook known to be developing a payment service? I believe the lead dev of Google Checkout just joined a month or so ago.

    Paypal might even start to provide a “Small Payment Service” as well, if this got traction.

    Is Noca really going to start spamming too?

    Like we dont have to deal with enough ads these days, and I dont care about how “targeted” they are

  23. Peter Robinett

    One of the guys from Noca gave a talk at BarCampBlock in August that I attended. In his talk he emphasized how cheap it actually is to do transactions for credit card companies, the costs basically just being servers and bandwidth (plus fraud). I got the impression that Noca was focusing on offer a service just like the major credit cards, but cheaper, so perhaps it’s premature to write it off as just ACH. That being said, ACH is a good system and too little known in the US (as someone else mentioned, European countries have been using similar systems for some time).

  24. James Smith

    How does this compare with Spare Change on Facebook?

  25. Leigh

    Why does CJ have to identify himself? Obvioulsy he beleives in the product if he works there.

  26. CanCar

    After it comes to facilitate our life. Because I had a bad experience with PayPal and really it is a great headache.

  27. Alex

    @ #4, I think that comment is preposterous and completely trollish. Clearly if you even began to read the Bitpass article, you’d realize that what Noca is doing is entirely different.

    At all other naysayers: I think they definitely have something going here with this system. The fact that they are focusing on Facebook first, is really smart. They are not solely focusing on micro-transactions - look at the facebook app first, before making ignorant statements entirely based on skimming [as opposed to *reading*] this article.

    Normally, I don’t feed trolls, but I really see a problem with one troll starting a whole line of ridiculous and entirely baseless comments. To all the people who actually care, please understand that my intent is not to feed the trolls, but rather to dispel any doubts in this company people may get after reading the comments the trolls posted.

    No, I do not work for Noca - no I don’t have any vested interest - don’t go there.

    Alex’s 2pence

  28. PJ Gupta

    @#24 James Smith

    Other payment systems (e.g. Spare Change) are a front-end around existing payment systems (e.g. paypal, VISA, MC), which is why they charge varying fees to process transactions.

    We are an end-to-end payment system which is why we can do transactions at (almost) zero cost - and we offer zero cost on checking/savings acccounts (i.e. debit) - in perpetuity. I don’t think any other payment system is offering completely zero fees for micro-transactions (spare change will need to charge you fees because they need to pay their “back-end” processor - as would any other “front-end” system).

    Just so this isn’t mis-leading I personally don’t know spare change people so am neither for nor against them - infact Noca could partner with spare change and offer a cost free alternative - spare change could then have 2 choices to offer their customers (just my opinion)

    Disclaimer: I am one of the Principal’s of Noca Inc.

  29. ALG

    PJ
    If you don’t charge transaction fees what is your business model? How do you make money?

  30. PJ Gupta

    @#29 Alo

    For debit - the transaction costs the bank/financial institution virtually nothing so all we need to monetize is the cost of infrastructure (which is minuscule per transaction). We can monetize that cost multiple ways including actually getting paid by Financial institutions for increase sales - ads are another way.

  31. Michael

    I love the concept of cutting the Visa & MC middlemen out of 2-3% of sales for little contribution on their part (except for creating the CC business), and am familiar with the concept from Germany.

    But…. from working in ecommerce I know that when a retailer debits a customer’s checking account (or even just authorizes a charge), it’s devilishly difficult for the customer to get the money back until the retailer decides to do so. The customer’s bank will not step in to resolve the problem for the customer. And it’s not infrequent that backend systems “hiccup” and create duplicate or erroneous charges.

    So I wish Noca the best of luck, but wouldn’t use a system like this. (mind you, I won’t use 3rd party cash machines as small stores for the same reason).

  32. George

    I deal with the ACH processing in our company. We process a fair amount and the bank charges us a fixed per transaction rate. This seems typical.

    So, I like the question about how are they going to make money. Even their website is very unclear as to how merchants are charged, and it does not indicate that it is free to merchants.

    Most importantly is the returns issue. In ACH the money is typically available the next day, but if the transaction bounces the bank takes the money back (no discussion). In the case of a commercial transactions this has to be done in 3 days. For non commercial it can be several weeks.

    So, you ship the product the transaction bounces. Whose stuck NOCA, the merchant? The merchant has no recourse through the bank. With CC’s at least you have a fighting chance in a charge back process.

    Maybe this is why they are going after micro payments (lower risk).

  33. Lenny

    Great idea, and one who’s time has come. Others may have failed before, but if you look to the future it’s plain to see that MicroPayments will exist within a decade. Bully for NOCA for having the guts to go for it!

    Much of the world uses ACH already for P2P and P2B transaction, and Americans already use it for B2P (direct deposit) and B2B.
    In part b/c CC fees would cut too deeply into profits in the developing world. I still remember trying to explain PayPal to a friend in Korea who finally asked, “Why you don’t just send from bank machine.” (Please forgive his English, it’s far better than my Korean.) So there are plenty of folks already giving out their account numbers, though it’s true that there may be some work ahead convincing Americans to do it.

    OTOH, as Matt points out above, the rest of the world needs a service like this. There are over 2.5B ppl in China and India who are moving into the digital age, but not fast enough to pay $0.30 transaction fees for their $1 transactions. (That’s enough to buy lunch over there.)

  34. livejamie

    I wonder how long until eBay bans them, if they haven’t already.

  35. billybob

    It will fail simply because of it’s name. Noca? C’mon. I think people are stretching a bit for catchy names for web aps these days. Remember Flooz?

  36. Tech Roach

    Hey thats great. COol !!

  37. LostinJapan

    Great…basically leaves out all the countries where they don’t use checking…

  38. Iļja Ketris

    Works only where checks are widespread. Useless in most parts of the world.

  39. Arona

    Micropayments are primarily used for impulse / instant buys. i.e. to launch an application that you need right now, or to access some time sensitive information.

    waiting for check to clear isn’t, to my mind at least, suitable for micropayments although, who knows, there may be lots more applications that I’m not considering….

    I certainly wouldn’t release a product until the check cleared - and if my product is say - an online subscription - then I think I would get better conversions via an instant payment mechanism. Maybe even premium SMS. Especially if the marginal cost of my product is Zero.

    I like the idea that the penalty for misuse (bounced payment fee) will restrict “false” transaction, but there is still little retribution for the site owner that gets skimmed…

  40. subcorpus

    lets see how this one works out …
    if its a real alternative ti paypal … i’ll use it …
    nit that i’ve any problems with paypal … i think real competition will get us consuers something good …

  41. hhp2k

    It’s always nice to see a fresh idea born from something so obscure that we rarely think about… until the five billion dollar figure comes into play. That truly is a lot of money. If this system does work, it’ll be promising. However, don’t just think everyone is going to drop Paypal. Paypal’s success rides on the integration with eBay and being the classic first-on-the-scene contender. It’s not going away any time soon.
    http://www.spymac.com/details/?2334927

  42. PEU

    What if my account is stolen and is used to send payments?
    When I notice the fraud I notify the bank and my $$ are restored from the accounts to where the money went, how do you deal with this if the other side is legit seller? Screw the seller? thats usually the case with credit cards…

  43. Biz Dev Person

    @#42 PEU

    If I understand your comment/question - you’re questioning how the buyer/seller dispute is resolved ?
    The credit cards have a dispute resolution process involving chargebacks. Generally its in favor of buyer - but sometimes in favor of seller (e.g. if you dispute a charge posted by an airline the seller i.e. airline almost always wins - try it sometime :-)
    Noca currently does not arbitrate between Seller/Buyer (since they are only microtransactions) but may have a similar/dis-similar process in place in future depending on user feedback.

    Disclaimer: I work for Noca

  44. Preston

    I sell robotic lawn mowers and we take Paypal, in fact we sell so much they gave us a “personal” account manager. Noca is not something we could probably use until they got very strong, since almost everything we sell is in the 2k+ range.
    However, we have had several of these “significantly not as described” issues come up through Paypal and have lost 3 out of 4 of them. #43 Biz Dev is right, Credit Cards usually favor the buyer over the seller. Even though there is nothing wrong with the units they purchased we still have to take them back, even though the unit does not get shipped until 21 days after the chargeback (they only have 10 days to ship it out after the agreement) we still have to take it back. Even though in the agreement it says the unit must be in sellable condition, and it comes back to us with parts missing and dirty, we get no compensation. So far as sellers rights, there are none, it’s all a big joke. But the few problems that we endure is worth the successful transactions we get.
    I will be interested in this once they grow a bit stronger and have some real success.

  45. Jens

    A secure easy way would be something like this. Selling company provides account# and an identity number where as to identify the payment.
    The buyer connects to his/hers internet bank and pays the accurate account with the sum and identity number. Exactly as paying an invoice or rental payment. This way the customer only need to find a bank with easy to use online banking and low transferring costs. Normal payments through banks are “free of charge” only the interest rate that the bank can gain trough the transfer process.

    I am aware of that the banks love their small fees. This is something for EU and US to work out. Just as they have with rooming costs for mobile phones.

    Also an on-line bank financed by advertising could solve this. By letting people open temporary accounts. Like on-line checks. Me as a buyer can then transfer $1000 to an account where I pre-register the account numbers and or payment numbers that should be valid transactions.

    There you go!

  46. Grammarian

    “eliminate transaction feeds” Transaction fees?

  47. Geoff

    I Have all your routing numbers!

    http://www.gregthatcher.com/Fi.....amp;arg=FL

    Now, you do to.

  48. WC

    @47

    Mine is not on there! Hehe. I did find it on another online list, though.

  49. It's Easy To See

    Noca backwards is “A con”

    Hmmmm.

  50. Noca

    Seems more like no ca as in northern california ?

  51. you're all wrong

    noca as in no card :)

  52. gary

    Great to see someone has figured out a way to use the ACH system at such a low cost per transaction. The problem for regular merchants however is the time lag ACH requires for processing the cash transfer. For everyday retail stores, vending machines, taxis, etc. this system will not work because there is no guarantee to the merchant for payment. Once NOCA figures out a way to provide some kind of middleman guarantor to merchants, they will really have something that can change the world of credit/debit cards. I hope they do.

  53. Alleagra

    Can Bokon Too Koonet explain how giving out a routing number ( = sort code in the UK?) and account number can ‘drain’ an account? Anyone who writes a cheque does this.

  54. John

    I will bet that companies will simply continue to charge the 2 to 3% anyway. They are not going to display two prices because they will also want to have the other payment options. Nothing will probably be gained here.

  55. Marcos

    It’s a great idea. So good.

  56. David Mackey

    Right now the product isn’t revolutionary. We can already pay for most items with a check - or a debit card - without transaction fees. If they add lines of credit with no transaction fees, thats when they will become something.

  57. CanCar

    The purchases and payments online are more and more common, therefore the security must be greater. Personally I had a bad experience with paypal, with this I do not mean that the system is bad.

  58. JackD

    Doesn’t Paypal do this exact same thing and still charge merchants for it? I thought they had millions of users with bank info and Paypal just takes the spread on the 2-3% they charge.

  59. Danno

    Banks and credit card companies are gouging here - no question. Could it really cost 3-5% of a payment to process it? (almost as ridiculous as real estate agent fees ;-) So there is an obvious market, especially for smaller payments where fixed fees drive the percentage up further. Can this be done securely? Yes, the world has the technology. We already use it to pay bills online. To me the “returning goods” thing is a lark. My credit card company would not lift a finger to return fees to me. As a matter of fact, my card was used fraudulently online and it took me 4 months and two sworn affadavits to get credited for fraudulent purchases on a canadian credit card with delivery going to Hong Kong. Bring it on, and worst outcome is the monopoly players will reduce their fees to represent reasonable margins. And how much does a GD transaction cost?

  60. Mar

    Actually, Amazon FPS charges only 5 cents plus 5% for transactions less than $10 that use a credit card, not 30 cents as you posted Mark.

    I just finished a post of micropayment providers and how Amazon, right now, is the best choice for $1 transactions.

    http://www.trumptheniche.com/2.....developer/

  61. Adam Hyman

    Does anyone know of a company that is similar to Noca?

    What other companies are doing the same thing as Noca?

  62. Leonard Sellem

    What is the legal status of Noca? Is it a bank? A financial intermediary? Or is it simply a services company? If so, how can it act directly on bank accounts without any bank processing?

  63. Micah

    Amazon FPS has some micro-payment support. It isn’t great, but it allows you to bundle a lot of micro payments into a single larger transaction, thereby cutting down (but no eliminating) the transaction fees.

  64. Michael

    Lots of alternate payment processors have been doing micro-payments for years. The digital previous metals industries all handle micro-payments, all with different types fee structure. e-Gold, e-Bullion & Goldmoney are the oldest that come to mind.