Comments on: Is Beacon Inflating Facebook’s Visitor Numbers? http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/ Startup and Technology News Mon, 07 Jul 2008 02:34:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: NeueMedienBlog.de | Blog über Neue Medien & Internetwirtschaft » Positive Effekte für Facebook durch Beacon http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-2223700 NeueMedienBlog.de | Blog über Neue Medien & Internetwirtschaft » Positive Effekte für Facebook durch Beacon Fri, 25 Apr 2008 15:59:13 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-2223700 [...] Eine ausführliche Erklärung gibt es auf Techcrunch. [...] [...] Eine ausführliche Erklärung gibt es auf Techcrunch. [...]

]]> By: Marcelo Calbucci http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1827256 Marcelo Calbucci Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:53:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1827256 Hi Erick, here is how you get definitive proof something is off. You add two columns to that table: Page Views per Visit and Page Views per UU. A website, unless it goes through some major redesign, has a very stable PV/V PV/UU over time. Looking at the numbers above, these are PV/UU: - September: 568 pages viewed by each user in September - October: 580 - November: 495 The three key ways to interpret the 20% drop in October are: 1) Widget-dilution because of beacon (like you say above) 2) Facebook is losing its stickness factor, and each user is using the service 20% less than before. 3) Facebook went through a redesign in November that required less clicks (i.e. page views) to get things done. The more likely culprit is a combination #1 and #2, and that can be a bit scary to advertisers (and investors) because the relative value of a Facebook user is going down. Can you say "tire kickers"? Independent of all that, Facebook has a very impressive number of PV/UU and PV/Visit. -Marcelo Calbucci Founder & CTO http://sampa.com Hi Erick, here is how you get definitive proof something is off. You add two columns to that table: Page Views per Visit and Page Views per UU.

A website, unless it goes through some major redesign, has a very stable PV/V PV/UU over time. Looking at the numbers above, these are PV/UU:
- September: 568 pages viewed by each user in September
- October: 580
- November: 495

The three key ways to interpret the 20% drop in October are:
1) Widget-dilution because of beacon (like you say above)
2) Facebook is losing its stickness factor, and each user is using the service 20% less than before.
3) Facebook went through a redesign in November that required less clicks (i.e. page views) to get things done.

The more likely culprit is a combination #1 and #2, and that can be a bit scary to advertisers (and investors) because the relative value of a Facebook user is going down. Can you say “tire kickers”?

Independent of all that, Facebook has a very impressive number of PV/UU and PV/Visit.

-Marcelo Calbucci
Founder & CTO
http://sampa.com

]]> By: Smart Beacon Move Saves Facebook, Off to Races Again* teasered @ Feed UP !! http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1827189 Smart Beacon Move Saves Facebook, Off to Races Again* teasered @ Feed UP !! Sun, 09 Dec 2007 17:29:41 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1827189 [...] Sharp SAI readers quickly note TechCrunch analysis suggesting that perhaps as many as 2.3 million of the 4.9 million monthly gain came from Beacon [...] [...] Sharp SAI readers quickly note TechCrunch analysis suggesting that perhaps as many as 2.3 million of the 4.9 million monthly gain came from Beacon [...]

]]> By: Bob Jones http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1825424 Bob Jones Sun, 09 Dec 2007 04:46:36 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1825424 To Ryan M. my response posted on your blog and here: How can the FB cookie be checked without a request being made to Facebook.com? It can’t. The partner sites don’t have the ability, nor does any website, of accessing cookies based on your computer from another site, which it has to happen on FB’s servers … Therefore if a request is being made to FB it doesn’t matter if you’re a user or not, if the tracking tool counts requests to domains like that then it will inflate the numbers. To Ryan M. my response posted on your blog and here:

How can the FB cookie be checked without a request being made to Facebook.com? It can’t.

The partner sites don’t have the ability, nor does any website, of accessing cookies based on your computer from another site, which it has to happen on FB’s servers …

Therefore if a request is being made to FB it doesn’t matter if you’re a user or not, if the tracking tool counts requests to domains like that then it will inflate the numbers.

]]> By: Ryan M. http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1821023 Ryan M. Sat, 08 Dec 2007 05:23:35 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1821023 My response: http://mediatrending.com/2007/12/07/beacon-doesnt-inflate-facebooks-visitor-numbers/ My response:
http://mediatrending.com/2007/.....r-numbers/

]]> By: alan p http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818598 alan p Fri, 07 Dec 2007 19:01:37 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818598 By the way, this story seems to have disappeared off Techmeme in 3 minutes flat. Nothing does that in my experience Here's my blogpost on the matter: http://broadstuff.com/archives/584-Wow-Has-Techmeme-pulled-a-Facebook-story-or-vice-versa.html Have I got it right, or is my system having a bad day? By the way, this story seems to have disappeared off Techmeme in 3 minutes flat. Nothing does that in my experience

Here’s my blogpost on the matter:

http://broadstuff.com/archives.....versa.html

Have I got it right, or is my system having a bad day?

]]> By: alan p http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818483 alan p Fri, 07 Dec 2007 18:35:48 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818483 @ 21 - not in a month it doesn't - those ratios (eg pageviews / unique) are pretty much constant all year, but jump hugely in November - I've never seen a site do that organically! @ 21 - not in a month it doesn’t - those ratios (eg pageviews / unique) are pretty much constant all year, but jump hugely in November - I’ve never seen a site do that organically!

]]> By: Akash http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818169 Akash Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:23:41 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1818169 @ 20 alan p - I think you're discounting the fact that Facebook's demographics might be shifting to a more (older) mainstream audience that doesn't spend hours and hours obsessing with facebook. @ 20 alan p - I think you’re discounting the fact that Facebook’s demographics might be shifting to a more (older) mainstream audience that doesn’t spend hours and hours obsessing with facebook.

]]> By: alan p http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1817932 alan p Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:02:16 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1817932 @19...the pageviews and sessions are pretty constant despite a 20% upkick in uniques. Its very unlikely that a 20% rise in "normal" unique activity would be exactly matched with a c 17% drop in average pages per user and session , especially as the ratios have held pretty constant in the last year. @19…the pageviews and sessions are pretty constant despite a 20% upkick in uniques. Its very unlikely that a 20% rise in “normal” unique activity would be exactly matched with a c 17% drop in average pages per user and session , especially as the ratios have held pretty constant in the last year.

]]> By: Ryan http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1817870 Ryan Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:30:21 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1817870 "these iFrames are triggered by non-Facebook members as well who never go to Facebook proper." That is a false statement and disproves the entire argument of this article. YOU NEED TO BE LOGGED IN TO FACEBOOK IN ORDER TO SEE THE IFRAME. Thus nearly all of those 2.3 million people were already counted and thus beacon is not inflating the overall numbers. http://www.radiantcore.com/blog/archives/23/11/2007/deconstructingfacebookbeaconjavascript “these iFrames are triggered by non-Facebook members as well who never go to Facebook proper.”

That is a false statement and disproves the entire argument of this article. YOU NEED TO BE LOGGED IN TO FACEBOOK IN ORDER TO SEE THE IFRAME. Thus nearly all of those 2.3 million people were already counted and thus beacon is not inflating the overall numbers.

http://www.radiantcore.com/blo.....javascript

]]> By: Josh http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816822 Josh Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:06:56 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816822 An iFrame you say... I think someone is a little too Apple-focused. Technically it's an IFrame. An iFrame you say… I think someone is a little too Apple-focused. Technically it’s an IFrame.

]]> By: Krixxr http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816794 Krixxr Fri, 07 Dec 2007 06:56:04 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816794 Erick, if you had invested the same time to get your hands on the revenue and profit numbers of Zuckerbook all of us here could get on with their jobs. That is sole metric that is of interest (unless you are from Fortune magazine). With regard to Zuckerbook we could then all doze off. Erick, if you had invested the same time to get your hands on the revenue and profit numbers of Zuckerbook all of us here could get on with their jobs. That is sole metric that is of interest (unless you are from Fortune magazine). With regard to Zuckerbook we could then all doze off.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816330 Sebastian Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:50:09 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816330 Quantcast agrees with Compete: Big bump in daily uniques in november Alexa agrees with Compete: UP up and away! 3 out of 3 thus far. Quantcast agrees with Compete:
Big bump in daily uniques in november

Alexa agrees with Compete:
UP up and away!

3 out of 3 thus far.

]]> By: Sebastian http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816328 Sebastian Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:48:50 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816328 Quantcast agrees with Compete: Big bump in daily uniques in november http://www.quantcast.com/facebook.com Alexa agrees with Compete: UP up and away! http://www.alexa.com/data/deta.....cebook.com 3 out of 3 thus far. Quantcast agrees with Compete:
Big bump in daily uniques in november
http://www.quantcast.com/facebook.com

Alexa agrees with Compete:
UP up and away!
http://www.alexa.com/data/deta…..cebook.com

3 out of 3 thus far.

]]> By: SB$ http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816327 SB$ Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:48:10 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816327 Quantcast agrees with Compete: Big bump in daily uniques in november http://www.quantcast.com/facebook.com Alexa agrees with Compete: UP up and away! http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/facebook.com 3 out of 3 thus far. Quantcast agrees with Compete:
Big bump in daily uniques in november
http://www.quantcast.com/facebook.com

Alexa agrees with Compete:
UP up and away!
http://www.alexa.com/data/deta.....cebook.com

3 out of 3 thus far.

]]> By: adwarerehash http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816254 adwarerehash Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:21:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816254 sure looks like adware wrapped up in a beacon....bit. reminds of intermix tricks used to drive myspace UU's before Fox buy out for years a classic way to game metrics has been for publishers to purchase pop up ads to be served on a site and then get credit for the UU and PV for the hitting that ad on the site. FB seems to have wrapped this up in beacon...perhaps NY AG Cuomo will step in like Spitzer did when he fined Intermix $7MM back in 05 sure looks like adware wrapped up in a beacon….bit. reminds of intermix tricks used to drive myspace UU’s before Fox buy out

for years a classic way to game metrics has been for publishers to purchase pop up ads to be served on a site and then get credit for the UU and PV for the hitting that ad on the site.

FB seems to have wrapped this up in beacon…perhaps NY AG Cuomo will step in like Spitzer did when he fined Intermix $7MM back in 05

]]> By: Steve Ballmer http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816191 Steve Ballmer Fri, 07 Dec 2007 02:02:29 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816191 Another Conspiracy theory? Sheesh! Another Conspiracy theory?
Sheesh!

]]> By: iHero http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816179 iHero Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:58:54 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816179 I think Ben is doing it ! I think Ben is doing it !

]]> By: Skilling - Lay - Ebbers - Koz http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816118 Skilling - Lay - Ebbers - Koz Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:39:10 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816118 QUIZ TIME Here's the deal: PICK ONE 1) Facebook has incompetent people forecasting growth which translates into hardware, data center........ costs. 2) Facebook clearly knows the numbers are tweaked because they have many intelligent people that have joined from Google and they know about SCALE. 3) Facebook is just shady. --- Personally, I hate to say it but I think it's number #3. They are shady.--- The only way you will convince me otherwise is if I see two large advertisers publicly say they were notified that these numbers were incorrect by X to Y pages. On the other hand if the Facebook sales team has been sending out emails to potential customers with these inflated numbers as part of their sales pitch it will be another nail in the coffin and the kid (Zuckerberg) may be demoted to janitor by Christmas day if not sooner....... It's becoming a circus! Sincerely, Jeffrey Skilling, CEO of Enron Ken Lay, Chairman of Enron (RIP) Bernie Ebbers, CEO of MCI WorldCom Dennis Kozlowski, CEO of Tyco p.s. Erick excellent story. Very well written! p.p.s. Duncan, if you can write a Facebook story by midnight, Techcrunch will have completed the hat trick (Mike, Erick and you) of covering Facebook today:) QUIZ TIME

Here’s the deal: PICK ONE

1) Facebook has incompetent people forecasting growth which translates into hardware, data center…….. costs.
2) Facebook clearly knows the numbers are tweaked because they have many intelligent people that have joined from Google and they know about SCALE.
3) Facebook is just shady.

— Personally, I hate to say it but I think it’s number #3. They are shady.— The only way you will convince me otherwise is if I see two large advertisers publicly say they were notified that these numbers were incorrect by X to Y pages.
On the other hand if the Facebook sales team has been sending out emails to potential customers with these inflated numbers as part of their sales pitch it will be another nail in the coffin and the kid (Zuckerberg) may be demoted to janitor by Christmas day if not sooner…….

It’s becoming a circus!

Sincerely,

Jeffrey Skilling, CEO of Enron
Ken Lay, Chairman of Enron (RIP)
Bernie Ebbers, CEO of MCI WorldCom
Dennis Kozlowski, CEO of Tyco

p.s. Erick excellent story. Very well written!

p.p.s. Duncan, if you can write a Facebook story by midnight, Techcrunch will have completed the hat trick (Mike, Erick and you) of covering Facebook today:)

]]> By: franklin http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816087 franklin Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:29:13 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816087 Jack - I'm confused. Quantcast showed an even LARGER jump in facebook traffic (24 million in october to 30 million in November), and they show a huge spike in daily UVs in the middle of Nov... Jack - I’m confused. Quantcast showed an even LARGER jump in facebook traffic (24 million in october to 30 million in November), and they show a huge spike in daily UVs in the middle of Nov…

]]> By: Lucas http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816059 Lucas Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:21:44 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1816059 They really pissed you off facebook, huh ? Cheers :-) They really pissed you off facebook, huh ?

Cheers :-)

]]> By: Social Network Conference http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815984 Social Network Conference Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:02:36 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815984 All you guys need to go to this conference and learn about building the next Facebook, Google, Opensocial and more http://www.webguild.org/meetings/web20/2008/ All you guys need to go to this conference and learn about building the next Facebook, Google, Opensocial and more http://www.webguild.org/meetings/web20/2008/

]]> By: Aziz http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815979 Aziz Fri, 07 Dec 2007 01:00:47 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815979 Sorry to say this Erick, but I think that this post was a waste of time :-) .. I like your other posts btw .. :-) Hope u take this as positive criticism ... Sorry to say this Erick, but I think that this post was a waste of time :-) .. I like your other posts btw .. :-)

Hope u take this as positive criticism …

]]> By: Allen Stern http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815962 Allen Stern Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:57:50 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815962 Erick - some of us have been saying for a long time we need new metrics. Glad you have joined the campaign! One thing I have heard over and over (for 10+ years) is that we won't see a shift in metrics until the agencies accept it. I'd hope in 2008 we can band together and force the agencies to accept it. Erick - some of us have been saying for a long time we need new metrics. Glad you have joined the campaign!

One thing I have heard over and over (for 10+ years) is that we won’t see a shift in metrics until the agencies accept it. I’d hope in 2008 we can band together and force the agencies to accept it.

]]> By: Me http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815943 Me Fri, 07 Dec 2007 00:50:30 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/06/is-beacon-inflating-facebooks-visitor-numbers/#comment-1815943 Fourth! Fourth!

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