November 28, 2007

Music Search Engines Tread Fine Legal Line

Michael Arrington

65 comments »

Music search engines are just one of the many ways to get free music on the Internet (BitTorrent and MP3Sparks, formerly AllofMP3, are other popular ways). But for some users they are a near perfect way to listen to music on demand, and/or round out their music collection.

Three that we’ve been tracking are SeeqPod, Songza and Skreemr.

All three index the web, or parts of the web, looking for music files that people have uploaded to servers. Users search by artist or song. MP3s or other non-DRM sound files with metadata matching the query are served as results.

Unlike sites like LaLa, Imeem and Pandora (and many others), which are all trying to play by various RIAA rules to deliver music to users, music search engines generally don’t pay royalties of any kind. The music itself is never on their servers, so they have significantly less copyright exposure. More on that below.

Of the three, Seeqpod is the most useful. It has an index of 8 million individual songs, auto-spell checks queries to find common misspellings, and allows users to create playlists. Seeqpod also has embeddable players, and will try to find music videos of songs you are playing. Seeqpod, by the way, was originally a project of the Lawrence Berkely National Lab.


SeeqPod - Playable Search

Songza also allows users to create playlists and provide embeddable players.Skreemr has bare bones functionality and the hit rate is a little iffy. But they have one feature that the others do not - a direct link to the file on the third party server. That means downloading the song to your hard drive is just a right mouse click away.A fourth company, Deezer, changed its model in the face of litigation in France.

Copyright, Schmopyright

There’s no reason to mince words here - the music these sites are playing is almost always copyright infringing. But it’s distributed on servers unaffiliated with the search engine itself, making it effectively impossible for the RIAA and its international equivalents to do much about it other than try to force the largest infringers to remove the content. That’s because there is little recourse against the search engines themselves.

None of those legalities affect the search engines, though. It’s unlikely that under current U.S. law the RIAA can do anything at all to stop them.

Current case law gives a lot of leeway to search engines. I spoke this evening with Andrew Bridges, counsel for Google in Perfect 10 v. Google. In that case, Google was held not held to be infringing the copyright on images just by displaying a thumbnail of the image in search results.

The same arguments are valid with the music search engines, says Bridges (with the caveat that he’d have to look much more closely at the specific facts of any case).

The services may still be liable for contributory infringement, he says, but there just isn’t any definitive U.S. case law on matter yet. And no statutes cover contributory infringement.

So for now the search engines are free to link to infringing songs, and even stream them on their site. Just so long as the songs themselves are never stored on their servers. That’s good news for Deezer, Seeqpod and Skreemr, and the users who’ve come to rely on them.

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  1. RAD!O-ED!T » Blog Archive » Music Search Engine Roundup
  2. AduTech » Blog Archive » Verizon Wireless Opens Up Its Network. Who’s Next?
  3. music » Blog Archive » Music Search Engines Tread Fine Legal Line
  4. Music Search Engines Tread Fine Legal Line - Allofmp3 Community Forums
  5. Gubatron.com » Blog Archive » Episodio 72 - Internet TV, Google, Open Mobile, Green y más
  6. Paul Potts - One Chance - Info, Reviews, & Free Links To Listen, Download, and Purchase | The Digital Lounge | FIND YOUR DIGITAL COOL
  7. Business News Research » Fashion Social Network Chictini Harmonizes with SeeqPod
  8. A New Way of Piracy? - Page 2 - Whooked
  9. Free (legal) P2P Music Downloads? Told You So.
  10. Music Search Engines Tread Fine Legal Line-music
  11. Music Search Engines Tread Fine Legal Line | Music News Blog
  12. Fashion Social Network Chictini Harmonizes with SeeqPod
  13. Songza Adds More Songs With Help From Seeqpod
  14. The Music Industry’s Going to Love This: Desktop Client for SeeqPod Released

Comments

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  1. StartupEarth

    “None of those legalities affect the search engines, though. It’s unlikely that under current U.S. law the RIAA can do anything at all to stop them.”

    Are you sure about that? The Tv-Links case set an ominous precedent about just what a site can link to, although this was a UK case, it’s the start of a very slippery slope that’s bound to affect the internet as a whole, and my bet is, these site will be hit equally hard.

  2. Michael Arrington

    The TV Links case is a good one to bring up, but its unclear whether the guy will ever be sued/charged with anything. They may only get him on trademark infringement.

    See:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_Links
    http://www.techcrunch.com/2007.....d-back-up/

  3. Ryan Spahn

    LoL - another mole for them to whack!

    Did you see the Doug Morris article ( http://tinyurl.com/2cs7f5 ) of UMG. Portrays just how out of touch they are. Glad I no longer work in such a clueless industry anymore; glad to be creating a new one myself!

    They just need to work out blanket licenses with ISPs and cellular companies. From here innovation will thrive and thus their pockets will too.

  4. nick of cebu

    Interesting and useful post. It would also have been nice to have had some TechCrunchy info, such as who is behind these sites, and what kind of funding and revenues do they have.

  5. Aadaam

    Isn’t deezer legal?

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2007.....d-service/

    Besides, deezer does not make your uploaded files public without some legality check, which I do not understand. You can still listen to them however.

  6. Greg

    Hello Michael,

    As far as I know, you’ve got it wrong on Deezer : it doesn’t search and indexes the web, but works with user uploaded content, pretty much like IMEEM, and by signing agreements with majors.

    For example, they have recently signed an agreement with Sony BMG to provide 165,000 songs from Sony for free on their site.

    Furthermore, Deezer pays the SACEM, the french equivalent for the RIAA, making their music legal, at least in France, I guess.

  7. Kyle

    How different are they from, say, searching for a music download on Google?

  8. Brice

    Deezer says they are legal because they have a deal with the french RIAA (SACEM) and Sony, but still distribute (and stock, so they are not a search engine) Universal, EMI, and Warner songs…

  9. Kyle

    What about radioblogclub?

  10. proteus

    @Brice:
    You’re right, Deezer can’t be considered as legal as they don’t pay anything to other companies than Sony.

    Actually you won’t find any legal free-music-on-demand service today, because royalties and deals with record companies are just too expensive compared to revenues from ad-supported services.

  11. MP3 @ Baidu

    Chinese Search Engine (Baidu) has more to offer at http://mp3.baidu.com/
    Just key in any song, and you will find dozen of download options listed

  12. Michael Arrington

    yeah except its in Chinese

  13. Tom

    I think MuViBee (www.muvibee.com) goes in a similar direction, but a bit better by (ab)using Amazon and iTunes data as well. But furthermore they also use images.

  14. Live Crunch

    I wrote on ipod touch blog about seeqpod they have web just for iphone and ipod touch ;)

    I use it all the time on airports when i go to conference
    http://ipodtouchtricks.blogspo.....music.html

  15. Alex

    I thought the original Napster simply acted as a “search engine”, helping you find “trading partners”. They were shut down. How do these sites differ?

  16. Crowdstormer

    Seems like they’re found a clever way of getting round being sued instantly. Something will happen to make sure these kind of sites don’t continue for long, it always does!

  17. Chuck

    Piracy is called piracy for a reason. It’s theft. Play all the word games you want…you are destroying existing businesses with no justification by stealing the fruits of their labors. And for what? Because you’ve got a better business model that you’re promoting? No…just because you can “get away with it”. TC has great value on many levels…but jumping on this bandwagon…promoting those who profit by stealing from others…makes you no better than they are. Since you’re so keen on this issue (otherwise, why do you return to it so often?), why don’t you use the great power of your subscriber base to do something noble like Google is doing with the energy thing? Fight for a better business model. Innovate. Argue for something superior. Don’t just tear down the old system unless you’ve got something better. Try something of value instead of deceiving people by using terms like “free music” (previous posts) to describe some utopia that can never be. Sure…you can have all the FREE music you want…but when it’s crappy, you’ll understand that you only get what you pay for (unless you’re stealing it). Instead, invest (financially and philosophically) in a sustainable business model that allows the artists to benefit from their work, so they can justify their time investment. Hate the big record labels because they are slow to move and produce mostly crap and have outlived their usefulness? So do I. But I won’t use that to justify stealing their work. Instead, employ your conscience to advocate for something better…and something real. Otherwise, you’re little better than a petty criminal in this area.

  18. Wil

    I wonder if those clamoring that these sites should be liable for contributory infringement also believe that Yellow Pages publishers should be liable for contributory prostitution? (see the “Escorts” section)

  19. Josh

    To be honest, I think Songza will really push ahead. Their interface is clean and 100% user friendly. The legal issues are yet to be determined (although I’m sure someday soon we’ll see a drawn-out battle), but let the technology pave the way for the future.

  20. Nicolas Jondet

    The revenue-sharing deal between Deezer and SACEM, the French society representing music artists, requires Deezer to reach individual deal with record labels to obtain the authorization to broadcast their music. Deezer has been negotiating with all record labels. So far, Universal Music said they would not cooperate with Deezer (http://french-law.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=65&Itemid=1), whereas Sony (http://french-law.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=68&Itemid=1) and independent music labels (http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3id8f22bbe51a9e5992e23705b2c7a93d3) reached “experimental” revenue-sharing deals.
    Also, as Greg points out, Deezer is not a search engine but a repository of files uploaded by registered users.

  21. Mike

    I think Project Playlist is worth mentioning here. It’s an mp3 search engine and its traffic dwarfs all the sites described here.

    Also, interested in your opinion about the current lawsuit of EMI against Michael Robertson’s mp3tunes. He’s posted the exchange of letters on his website (michaelrobertson.com) and it’s specifically because he’s doing what other mp3 search engines - linking to songs available on the web that are largely infringing on copyright.

  22. Cem Sertoglu

    There’s a new rumored development in Turkey, where piracy is a huge problem. The music rights holders association MUYAP (turkish music rights monopoly) is doing a deal with TTNet, the broadband monopoly arm of Turk Telekom, whereby all ADSL subscribers get a legal license to all turkish music. Interesting development if they treat is as an open platform, since the license issue has been stifling all innovation in the turkish online music area.

  23. bob

    Songza is just a nifty interface to… Youtube, It’s not at all a Music Search Engine, they are just using the Youtube API to do the search…
    http://www.songza.com/a/query?q=madonna

  24. Darren

    Chuck,

    I see that you’re passionate about this issue. What do you propose? Why put the onus on TechCrunch to come up with a better business model? What are your ideas, and what are you doing to implement them? What are you doing to take responsibility for this issue?

    Please don’t blame TechCrunch for giving us information on sites that aren’t doing anything illegal.

  25. Braydon JM

    Linking is clearly a legal loophole in copyright law and is very much being exploited by services such as Deezer, et al. I suspect the loophole will be closed and services shutdown or modified; either that or we’ll see a universal licensing scheme, but I think we all know the former is more likely.

    From business decision standpoint, to me, creating a linking service is a very risky proposition. As a company, you can wave your flag and say “not me, we’re not the bad ones, we just make it easy to find the stuff”, but therein lies the rub: These services facilitate an illegal activity. And by facilitating an illegal activity en masse, you might even be illegal in a way individuals are not.

    Meaning: if one blogger posts one song that they love, then that blogger might be able to make a fair use argument. If a hundred thousand bloggers do the same thing, then individually they might all be able to make that case. However, if a linking service turns around and makes those hundred thousand bloggers into a download/streaming service, I am going to bet they are liable for the bulk downloading that goes takes place due to the existence of their service.

    There are also companies that are attempting to allow users to share or download and indemnify themselves by foisting the responsibility of uploading onto the user. In my view, that’s even worse legally and ethically than linking.

    If I were investing in companies, in my due diligence check list the “passes legal muster” box would just not get checked - too much exposure.

    We’ve taken the view that less legal risk is better and ultimately will benefit both users and owners. I think there are still plenty of innovative ways and models that can be tried within the existing copyright framework. It just means you have to work at it.

    http://www.rvibe.com

  26. sinha

    I’d rather say that piracy helps grow an industry. Here’s why: http://www.pluggd.in/2006/11/p.....-dont.html

    As Eagles put it “Kill all the lawyers, kill them tonight!”

  27. geekycoder

    Having use all the three search engines reviewed by Mike, I really prefer Songza because the it leverages on the service by Youtube. One of few advantages of using Youtube is that those video uploaded remain more permanent as compare to those songs found by Seeqpod and Skreemr.

    Though there is nothing fundamentally problematic with Seeqpod and Skreemr themselves, what I dislike is that there is no way to filter off certain song server. I found that most of the song from certain song servers just disappear or can’t be played from Seeqpod and Skreemr’s search list and performance is a lot of more inconsistently than Songza since it seem to play directly from the awry song server. So to say, playing with Songza using Youtube as source is a lot more positive experience than with the other two search engines.

    Secondly, probably because of more effort is needed to create video, only the most popular songs are found in Youtube which means that one can find the song much more easier using Songza than wrangling through list of irrelevant song list result.

    I have made a review of Songza at
    http://geekycoder.wordpress.co.....-the-mark/

    However, Songza does not have a true playlist. The playlist is not stored in conventional way, but rather as cookie (If I’m correct) and it is not embeddable. That’s aside, using Songza is a pleasant experience. Easy to use and doesn’t seem overwhelming. Certainly looking forward for Songza to release a true embeddable playlist.

    To those who like to see how Songza’s embedded player look like, I have created the page at
    http://geekycoder.byethost13.c.....ongza.html

    For Deezer and Imeem,
    http://geekycoder.byethost13.com/geezer.html

  28. frugal goose

    Anyone ever heard of used cds? Theres millions available through sites like amazon and theyre about as cheap as it gets plus you actually get a real hard copy…what a concept!

  29. UpTake

    If a search engine would not be allowed to link to digital content on the internet, then Google, Yahoo, MSN are all in trouble and would have to step up to the plate if RIAA or another wanted to set a precedent with one of the smaller search engines here.

    This is one of the most serious and impactive points.

  30. Russell Heimlich

    Those sites are nice but I used to rely on http://www.albumbase.com for all of my MP3 needs, that is until they were shut down a couple of days ago -> http://www.russellheimlich.com.....the-count/

    But I did find AlbumHunt.com which does pretty much the same thing. At any rate, I’m not too worried about places to acquire music.

  31. Roy Smith

    Interesting that BroadClip (a TechCrunch40 finalist) wasn’t at least mentioned in this post.

    Unlike the above mentioned music search engines that simply spider and link to clearly infringing uploaded music residing in open directories on the net, BroadClip maps the streams coming from Internet Radio stations in real time, and administrates your personal PC recording the music you want, when it is broadcast.

    Personal time and place shifting is a perfectly legal and fair use of the broadcasted stream.

    It’s sort of like a TiVo for music, except BroadClip has solved the issue of “no program schedule” in radio land.

  32. elegance

    how did you miss projectplaylist?

  33. JakeM

    >The services may still be liable for contributory infringement, he says, but there just isn’t any definitive U.S. case law on matter yet.

    Uhm…. what about all the bittorrent tracker cases? What’s the difference between the torrent tracker and “search engine”?

  34. David

    Not too sure - in a way, Kazaa and other P2P file sharing software do not host the content on their servers. They got shut down because it gives people access to copyright material. If you follow that logic here, then the RIAA will come and get these guys too.

    Which is very unfortunate for the rest of us.

  35. elegance

    http://siteanalytics.compete.c.....?metric=uv

    this is a good comparability

  36. Will

    Guys, I can’t believe for a supposedly technical audience that no one has brought up the point you can do this exact same thing with Google itself. Just google for “google mp3 search” and you will find plenty of options. http://www.googlemp3.com seems to find plenty of mp3s. Or if you prefer to use Google directly, you can query something like this:

    -inurl:(htm|html|php) intitle:”index of” +”last modified” +”parent directory” +description +size +(wma|mp3) “Nirvana”

    Sure, it’s more technical/advanced than a normal Google search, but is that a defense against copyright infringement? No, search engines are simply not liable for infringement simply for linking to something. Even when Google removes sites from their index due to a DMCA notice, they link to the DMCA request which contains, you guessed it, the original links.

    If seeqpod is liable, then so is Google/Yahoo/Microsoft.

  37. joe

    How do these flash players access mp3 files on other servers? I thought Flash didn’t allow that.

  38. garg

    uh oh. By this logic, Techcrunch is treading a fine legal line as well by linking to Seeqpod.

  39. UpTake

    Does anyone realize AOL is doing the same thing as the sites above with Winamp?

    http://www.last100.com/2007/09.....esnt-dare/

    This is important to realize, the shape of music distribution has changed and been handed over to the search engines. It’s now up to them to come up with a model that benefits artists. This could happen as Google was able to come up with a revenue model, AdSense, that has benefited content publishers.

  40. Hannes

    Well, you didn’t tell the truth. Seeqpod *does* hosting of mp3 files (even if they write on their own page, that they don’t). Just connect a proxy server and watch. How else could it play songs, which original links aren’t existing anymore? :-)

    Every song (mp3) on Seeqpod refers to http://4.71.164.199/ — just check it out.

  41. Steve Ballmer

    These sites are on the illegal side of that thread!

    http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

  42. Hannes

    Addon: or check about:cache in Firefox and search for the link above within the disk cache.

  43. Chuck

    Darren,

    I actually am contributing where I can. And yes, I feel strongly enough about this issue that I didn’t want to muddy it with self-promotion (as most people do here because of access to this vast audience). If you’re really interested in my efforts, you can see the legit sites that I’ve created to promote indie artists at freemusicgroup.com, and you can read my further thoughts about the logical fallacies to which I object so strongly here: chuckbrown.com/music-file-sharing/index.html (I’m leaving the links unclickable, because this isn’t about me)

    I don’t have a better plan than what currently exists (although I have make specific proposals about dropping DRM and increasing MP3 quality levels in exchange for a small increase in price). But the answer to a bad system is not STEALING.

    Pick up signs and go protest. Stop buying music through established channels in hopes that the industry will shrivel up and die. I support those efforts wholeheartedly. But that’s not what’s going on when someone like Michael pimps for the idea of “free music”. That just appeals to an already sucking ethical posture that’s so pervasive in this society that just tells people to “steal whatever you can”. What the hell? There’s no logic in that, and I don’t think anyone who makes that argument can have thought it through for real. I have thought it through, and I challenge others making downright stupid statements to do the same…and consider where this kind of thing is leading us as a society…especially our youth.

    I don’t have the power to solve this problem myself. Michael doesn’t either. But just stoking these piracy fires is not a legitimate way to address a problem. Michael has a much better handle on the nature of business than I’ll ever have. What I’m saying is that he has access to tons of creative people and he’s better connected than most of us will ever be. Why not use that power for good in this particular case? Why not build a new platform so appealing in its reach that it would tempt major-label artists to just walk away from their established deals, and top indie artists to align with it? Why not find a way to let all the involved parties profit…AND to use the opportunity to evangelize for a better option, instead of encouraging theft and telling people that the walls are falling and we’ll soon have free music?

    As far as your last comment: “Please don’t blame TechCrunch for giving us information on sites that aren’t doing anything illegal.”…this is not a standalone post. I am also referring back to past posts about free music on TC. And, yes…I am blaming TC for leading horses to water where there is only one real option: “Look, there it is. Go ahead and drink. Everyone else does. You might as well. Besides…music will all be free soon anyway!” Yes, I think that’s wrong and deserves to be challenged on ethical grounds.

  44. Fairuser

    The best plan is for musicians to move away from getting screwed and only getting cents per song!!! Radiohead has proved that there is far more reward monetarily in moving merchandise rather than individual tracks!

  45. DDB

    and boom it’s down…crashed firefox twice - on a great song at the end…someone is doing something - lots of traffic ok, digg effect it’s back up…

    bottom line - google has illegal mp3’s in their engine, videos, and tons of other illegal content and are they in jail? NO. They did it the right way, just like these sites are doing. Check googles stock now vs 5yrs ago and get a clue, please, everyone. If you post it on the net for free, it is free - hell if you post it for $17 you can still get it free and what is preventing google from indexing that particular link? If you index an outside source how are you liable for distributing it? You are not - case in point - google. The internet is the citizens of the world’s ammunition to LEARN AND REAP it’s benefits.

    Reminds me of Metallicas stance on Napster - how come they didn’t go after Gnutella? Ahh the speculations…

  46. Paul Lua

    Might also want to look at Soundflavor (www.soundflavor.com)

    They have an MP3 search engine and playlisting. Their widgets are pretty slick (coverflow-style).

    There’s a twist with Soundflavor. They have a good recommendation engine that suggests songs that sound like the music you search for. Kind of a Pandora repackaged as music search.

    Worth checking out.

  47. John

    Another shiny example of an MP3 search engine, working perfectly is http://www.searchmp3tracks.com

  48. Ann

    This DRM stuff is killing me!!!

    I do not live in the US anymore so I could care less about the breaking US law and removing DRM for personal use.

    DRM no DRM…. I just want to be able to play my media on any platform that I choose. DRM is like going into your local stereo shop and having to purchase a DVD player for each movie studio.

    So now I found a great decission - MelodyCan converter (http://www.convert-any-media.com/index.php) which helps me to resolve drm-protection problem.

  49. zhg

    Actually contributory infringement is covered by statute … see article below.

    http://www.invention-protectio.....ement.html

  50. Krellan

    Isn’t this just the same as Scour? Anyone remember that old program/website?

    http://www.oldversion.com/program.php?n=scour

    It was a search engine for open Windows shared folders (SMB).

    Very popular back in the days when residential connections did not often have firewalls or NAT acting as a filter.

    It was especially popular for college dorms, which often had true wide-open IP addresses.

    Wasn’t Scour legally shut down, even though they had nothing to do with the actual files? They merely provided a service by allowing them to be searched and indexed, and never did host the actual content. I wonder how these new services will avoid becoming another Scour.

  51. Rvdh

    I use this great engine: http://xchannelmusicmachine.blogspot.com/ it uses 17 mp3 search engines. SkreemR included!