There’s been another round of “Facebook is bad because they use our data” postings this weekend. The general argument is that Facebook should provide users the ability to opt-out of data sharing, both at a friends level and with advertisers. MoveOn.org is even leading a campaign complete with a petition calling on Facebook to provide privacy as the default setting with users presumably being able to opt-in to data sharing.
The best commentary so far has come from Tony Hung who notes rightly that the vast majority of people do not, and will not care what Facebook does with their data.
But why single out Facebook now, and not other companies? or is it that everyone seems to have forgotten the level, scope and depth of data retention one company continues to maintain on a sizable portion of the planet? That company of course being Google. Facebook’s data retention is insignificant in size to Google’s, and although the way Facebook is using that data may be raising eyebrows now, Google remains far, far more powerful in terms of what it knows about us.
I’ve long since given up caring and have submitted myself to the Google borg as have many others. Google’s argument about competition sits just as well with data: there are always alternatives so users are not forced to use their services. The same goes for Facebook; if users don’t like Facebook’s current privacy and data practices they can always take their social networking time elsewhere.
What do you think? Should we be more vocal on privacy and data usage on Facebook, or do you just not have enough time to care? Let us know in the comments, and fill in our poll below.
lol - TC would rather write about the smell of FB’s farts…as opposed to covering(more) new startups
but hey, follow the big money - i don’t blame that
Facebook has 50 million members and is hoping to quadruple that. The number of members who care enough about this issue to actually stop using Facebook is insignificant when compared to those numbers.
lawrence
it’s an topical debate, but by all means, send me some startups to look at that are new and exciting and I’ll write about them
Yea that position will be history soon. Why do you think millions of people would be using Facebook, if they were concerned about data sharing?
Facebook should concentrate on developing innovative features while focusing on putting users first instead of trying to think of ways to monetize their user base. They come off as greedy and reckless with the launching of Beacon. Though I don’t necessarily blame them for trying to take advantage of their popularity; I can’t say I know what else they have in store for us. I just know that I would think more highly of them if they weren’t so blatantly selling their users out.
At the end of the day Facebook can do as it pleases, but so can its users. If enough people complain (or threaten to leave) Facebook is likely to change its policy.
Hung’s article just tells a bloody fact..
Compare that to the live-documents.com pr stunts — do you think Microsoft really cares? [other than perhaps their corporate lawyers simply doing their routine job to send a C&D notice if anybody would feel somebody litigious..]
I saw this dilemma when facebook first announced their new ad platform. I started my blog for this very reason. If they don’t share the wealth with the users, they will eventually falter. People don’t like being treated unfairly and that’s exactly what facebook is doing. I wanted to start a revolution, but it seems the revolution has already begun. The users need to take a stand and demand fair treatment. I like facebook, but I think they should either share the wealth or allow users to restrict advertisers if they choose to do so.
Even worse than Google, your ISP has even more complete data on you.
And guess what? They actively sell your clickstream data to marketing and analytic companies like Quantcast.
So, where’s the press or outcry for that?
Michael, perhaps you can put the topical debate and big company news in the context of start ups and grass-roots initiatives that deal with the issues at hand?
For example there is a initiative that we are involved with that is getting quite a bit of traction recently that is attempting to deal with these concerns of user data and control - Duncan and I spoke about on his last podcast. You can see it at http://www.dataportability.org
Or Duncan - whichever hehe
is it me or did Techcrunch discover they could add polls to their stories?
I concur with Andrew, haha.
But on a serious note, it seems that TechCrunch doesn’t really cover any startup unless they’re financially backed or started from a “famous” internet person.
Don’t put any private information on Facebook. End of story. If you don’t want it stared, don’t post it. This includes you address, phone number, schedule etc. Facebook needs to get smart about this, but so do the users.
Does point number 9. have valid info?
“Even worse than Google, your ISP has even more complete data on you.
And guess what? They actively sell your clickstream data to marketing and analytic companies like Quantcast.
So, where’s the press or outcry for that?”
Has there ever really been such a thing as privacy? I think as long as we have large institutions, data will always be displaced and some lucky few slip through. Or do you computer people believe a data entry person will accurately enter in every detail of your life into the matrix? correctly?
sincerely,
ms. tipsy.
heh, I -just- finished a presentation on the overuse of Orwellian terms by butthurt drama queens, freaky
With that in mind, a new report cites social network attacks among the top security threats for 2008:
http://www.baselinemag.com/art.....461,00.asp
Your argument might have made sense before Facebook decided to sign with Amazon to sell the user information in light of better ad targeting and revenue growth. Now we all know that they’re after the money at the expense of users’ privacy.
If they really cared about the users’ privacy they should have a big banner right inside their news feed (right next to their social ads) that reads “All your personal data will be shared with our affiliates in an effort to make us richer”. Lets see how many people will stick around.
It would be one thing if they were just selling my information to advertisers, but when they start sharing my online purchasing habits with my friends while barely giving me the option to opt-out, I think that is crossing the line.
A quote in an AP article (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jktmzai0_n_sMBgH_jfy6QXNS_6gD8T299HG0) makes the point pretty clear… “What if you bought a book on Amazon called ‘Coping with AIDS’ and that got published to every single one of your friends?”
Facebook is ONLY good for college students who have no money to spend, but are rich on “free time”.
Now that TC is using voting option, ask your readers if you (TC) are infatuated with Facebook and should refrain from posting any Facebook story for at least two weeks.
I think you’re missing a big point here - the one that users are irritated by. Making public personal information to my friends and colleagues is what concerns people. I have given up caring what Google does on the back end with my shopping/search habits because they take it more as an aggregrate for data, and perhaps even indivdually to enhance my online (mostly: search, shopping) experiences.
But tapping my outside-the-network behaviour and sharing that with my colleagues is not OK with me. I do not want people in my social networks to have my tacit endorsement of fandango movies or stuff I buy at Overstock. Now both of those are, as I’ve said in other posts, rather innocuous stores, but what about my book reading habits at amazon or my feminine hygeine products at target, other equally innocuous stores whom facebook could see as potential viable, non-embarassing partners.
Think fire sale:
Step 1: Come across as a naive entrepreneur who just wants to be different (Developer Platform) and win over the internet dev community. Offer incentives like grants and free hosting.
Step 2: Turn cold shoulder on the dev community and sell private user data to affiliates.
Step 3: Take over the world
Yippie-kayee motherf***er
Not concerned.
Not concerned either… Hey! Something bit me! (Forest Gump impersonation)
Love, stay free
Bryan (#19), I’m with you. A friend emailed me the other day to ask how “Beowolf” was (answer: it sucks), and told me he knew I’d seen it because Fandango posted it to my mini feed, without my permission. After hunting around deep in my preferences, I found Fandango had been given full access to everything in my account, though I hadn’t made that choice or been notified.
I was livid, and won’t be buying tickets through Fandango again. And the Facebook app I’m working on? It’s an OpenSocial app now.
We do have choices, and if Facebook keeps pissing off users, it could still turn itself into the next Friendster.
#20, I actually like Facebook posts. The other day my mother in law gave me a call asking me what the deal is what the whole Facebook thing. I think America is discovering Facebook in a whole different light than what few of us may make of it. TC helps me stay in touch with what is in.
You are missing the point over the outcry over Beacon.
The data that Facebook is grabbing and publishing is not something I posted on their site or purposely made public. They are invading MY privacy. Just because they have my email doesn’t mean they have the right to poke their noses into my shopping habits.
So now, I’ve removed my main email from my Facebook account. Their attitude sucks and their service is going down the tube.
@John
Facebook notifies you about additions twice, once at the point of action through a popup and a second on the Facebook homepage.
Also, Beacon works using an iframe and some javascript, the sites involved aren’t given access to anything about you.
@Mike D
From what I understand, the popup at the point of action disappears after 20 seconds and the notification on Facebook itself is easily missed. I also understand that there is no way to totally opt-out of Beacon, you have to opt-out on a site-by-site basis.
I’m less worried about the sites having access to information about me than I am about my network of friend/colleagues knowing what I’m buying. But, I’m not a Facebook user, so I guess I don’t need to worry too much.
@13
your second sentence is right on the money
@26 Rob,
If your mother in law did not ask about MySpace too, then I’d think you work for Facebook or she is extremely worried about you spending to much time on FB and not enough time with her daughter (aka your wife):)
Hmmm, a classically Republican/Libertarian issue being aggressively pursued by way left moveon.
I think it is agood idea to offer users an ability to Opt Out. If nothing else, it will make facebook look cooler.
@31, Alex,
The Myspace question came 2 years late which would put it just around 2005. Now considering Facebook has been around for just about 2 years, I think she’s right on time.
On the other hand, my mother in law writes compilers so she may not be the best indicator of trends.
@34 Rob:
Fair enough….Happy Holidays,Cheers
Hi,
Rather than about privacy, the issue is about the freedom to choose.. I want to choose what somebody does with my private data.. Even giving it as a option that people could change(which 99.99% would not mind to change) would change the public perception of the issue..
In my opinion facebook has goon too far with beacon. Consider the casual facebook user’s new problem. While they are happily buying christmas gifts facebook is displaying all their activity to their friends, until they log in to discover what is going on.
I deleted all my facebook account data, deactivated my account, and deleted all my facebook cookies because of this new scheme. It has irked me big time.
I’m okay with google knowing so much about me because for the most part it is not machine readable like facebook’s data is. Facebook can mine their database, which has been populated by the users. Google on the other hand has more free form data that requires parsing. For example Parsing my email is no easy task.
@tess: facebook uses cookies to link your purchases to your profile, not your email. To prevent it log out of facebook and delete the facebook cookies. Or get a blocker addon that can block http://*facebook.com/beacon*.
@37 Adrian
After reading your post and your blog (via your name link) I think your perspective clearly weighs the pros and cons…… Nice job!
Adrian,
)
I think you really got to the gist of it. Google collects user data but it publicly admits its only readable by the machines and not accessible to humans (or fbi, cia, nsa). Facebook on the other hand has 1/2 of the social network world and yet chooses to pass it around for a mil or two. (Zuck/Dustin how much really
Duncan@#3: So you’re saying that you are not aware of any exciting startups right now?
And of course FB is going too far with Beacon. It’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission, so we’ll likely see them making a play for good-guy status by dialing a lot of this back, possibly with a PR push to highlight how badly other social networks treat privacy, such as a “Look how evil we aren’t (anymore)” strategy. But they’ll milk it until then, lots of PowerPoint will be generated, but no other social network will step up to the plate. Heck, if I was gunning for a piece of the SN pie I’d be clamoring up a storm against FB.
That said, I think Amy and tess have the right idea, especially if the only way to opt out is to change your email address. You think FB has experimented with XSS for Beacon purposes? I bet they’d love it if it were kosher.
In conclusion, I have no reason to believe that FB is any different than their fanboys who rationalize every opportunistic thing they’ve done as “easy” or “best for business,” so perhaps the Microsoft is a better fit than was initially apparent.
I’m not a Facebook member, nor was I ever on MySpace. Two questions though:
(1) What is driving the young ‘uns from MySpace to Facebook in droves?
(2) Will Beacon’s use of members’ data drive people away from Facebook to the next “social graph” site that promises “not to be evil”?
You see nasty group of people creating evolution germ warfare.
For example, someone checks school profile and DNA blood. a student get flu shot… Got sick about year. Blood is alter…
a student start shooting in school.
In socialist, communist, maoist, commonwealth countries and even in france you don’t see school shoot outs. They secretly monitor and jail evolution conspirators.
evolution people don’t believe in God. They use christians as remote control toy.
in order to protect yourselves all you have to do believe in darkhorse, rapture, and black fire. You can vandal evolution theory. But It’s hard to find them.
Facebook user Advice. Put your profile:
Real name: Rectum of anus
nickname: Colonscope
Birthday: 1/1/1910
Blood type: X-Men
Remember to upload “boogers on table” jpg.
Should we care? Yes.
Will anyone do anything about it? Doubtful.
I’m not seeing protests in the streets about the US government’s invasion of its citizen’s privacy so I hardly think you’ll hit a tipping point when it comes to a corporation.
I think in true sense most of social networking doing that not facebook alone. If you don’t like data sharing just don’t join any SN site.
Users permission should be taken and they should be served advt’s for the products they intend to buy in near future or evince their interest in.
http://tekno-world.blogspot.com
who cares? this is about choice - if you don’t like it, delete your Facebook account, it’s that simple, … stupid. (my guess is that none of the knuckleheads complaining about it on here will).
I personally think the whole Beacon thing is quite brilliant. And like all new product features will probably evolve over time. The real statement here is Facebook’s willingness to take big risks and keep innovating. A page out of Google’s textbook.
One good thing about Beacon is that Facebook will never figure out the pattern to my ass wiping. I tend to do 2-3-1 which is wipe twice, pull three, wipe once. As you can see… I win you sucker! Dan stay away, you’re not giving this one away!
Guys, please calm down. The CIA will not release your information to your mothers.
@Andy — think that its so easy to delete your Facebook account?
Oh, you can inactivate it — but they still have your data. If you want to delete every relationship you’ve made, via friends and groups, you have delete that all by hand.
In fact, the fact its so hard to delete your own data has brought it to the attention of the information commissioner in the UK, as it may be a violation of the Data Protection Act.
http://www.deepjiveinterests.c.....-continue/
Cheers
t @ dji