November 14, 2007

Entrepreneur 2.0

Glenn Kelman

93 comments »

glennkelman.pngThis guest post is written by Glen Kelman, the president and CEO of real estate startup Redfin. Previously, he was a co-founder of Plumtree Software, a Sequoia-backed, publicly traded company that created the enterprise portal software market.

American lives, F. Scott Fitzgerald once said, don’t have a second act. As the New York Times’ Gary Rivlin reported in his profile of PayPal co-founder Max Levchin, Silicon Valley hasn’t noticed. More companies than ever are being started by serial entrepreneurs. The second coming of the Internet bubble, Web 2.0, has in some ways been the love-child of Entrepreneur 2.0 — wealthy from his 1990’s success, restless from his time off. Venture capitalists have lined up with funding.

While second-timers’ experience may lower the likelihood of failure, from 82% to 70% according to one study, no one has noticed that it also seems to limit the magnitude of success. Every Silicon Valley colossus — Amazon, Apple, Dell, Ebay, Google, Microsoft, Oracle and Yahoo! — was started by a first-timer 30 or under. Facebook was founded by teenagers.

Yet we still insist on believing in the serial entrepreneur with the Midas Touch. We make celebrities of our entrepreneurs because we’d rather believe in talent than luck. And we tend to overlook reasons why second-time entrepreneurs are actually worse, not better, for their experience.

For example, many second-time entrepreneurs are so intent on replicating their success that they manufacture an inferior idea where the first one grew naturally out of a problem that had been bothering them. Some become so obsessed with how great their first company was that they spend all their time trying to copy it rather than building something different and new. They often hire top-heavy teams from past ventures, or strain to grow fast enough to meet higher expectations. Most strike out on their own without the partners they depended on for candor in their first success.

And for all the rhetoric about working just as hard the second time around, few second-timers operate at the same level of savagery that drove the early, destitute years of their first startup. Most don’t even try. A friend of mine had a great idea, raised money from his old investors, then took a three-week yachting trip. Another is often reported by his subordinates to be “golfing in outer space,” a catchphrase for exotic vacations that mere mortals could never afford.

No one is likely to call us out on it. I was on a panel last Thursday with a three-time entrepreneur who said that the typical money-raising process is one of the only real sanity checks a business plan is likely to get. But his current company never got that early scrutiny: because of his experience, he said, he was able to raise capital before really understanding his target customers.

I’m not even sure the experience investors think they’re buying is the right kind of experience. I know this from my own career. Like the PayPal entrepreneur, part of my interest in a second startup was a shot at being CEO. This means that what I used to be really good at — designing software — I don’t do as much of anymore, and what I never had to learn how to do — manage people – I now do all the time.

Meanwhile, some of the things I have learned aren’t much help. The chairman of the company I co-founded in 1997 often complained that “you don’t even know what you don’t know.” But that ignorance about a startup’s challenges lets first-time entrepreneurs think big. Once you learn your limits, and you reflect on your shiny new reputation, you get cautious.

Of course, none of this will stop an entrepreneur from starting another company. The way that Charles Dickens once described his depression — as the child inside himself who won’t stop crying — always seemed to me to be a better description of the entrepreneur’s insatiable unhappiness with a world that could be so much better.

And it probably won’t prevent many second-timers’ companies from reaching safe, profitable outcomes. But to be really great, I wonder if second-timers have to forget some of what it cost us so much to learn.

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Comments

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  1. StopIt

    Stop with the guest posts. We only come here to hear from Mike and Duncan.

  2. Otis Gospodnetic

    Good post. Sounds like something that is the case in other realms of life, not just entrepreneurship.

  3. All My Mac

    Contrary to “StopIt”, I welcome the guest posts. They’re better than Erick…

  4. Michael Arrington

    do you guys practice at being assholes or does it come naturally?

  5. http://www.meetingflex.com/SearchVideo.aspx

    They might as well be called “Serial Enterpreneurs” because the second time may not be the last time..

    :-)

    Blazing fast video search
    http://www.meetingflex.com/SearchVideo.aspx

  6. Chris R.

    “For example, many second-time entrepreneurs are so intent on replicating their success that they manufacture an inferior idea where the first one grew naturally out of a problem that had been bothering them.”

    It’s not about building up and selling out. We sold one of our huge products over a year ago and we’re still here about to release the first Canadian search engine ever.

    If you’re a one product “entrepreneur” then you will not repeat.

    That’s the problem with these web 2.0 business models. Bill Gates and Warren Buffet did not stop when they could no longer sell calculator Altair8800 software, or whatever. They adapted and expanded.
    The exit strategy IS the strategy today and the market can not possibly absorb that much failure as an upsell. It WON’T. Just like the subprime mortgages.

  7. Chris R.

    “do you guys practice at being assholes or does it come naturally?”

    For me it’s natural. I don’t filter my thoughts and it offends people.

  8. Allen Stern

    When you hit your first perfect 10 in the olympics, your first championship ring, your first grad school A, is the next ever as sweet? Doubt it.

    I wrote tonight about the Community CEO and why it won’t work. (click my name if interested)

    What’s interesting is that most might think the second time you have more to prove than the first time.

  9. AnonTroll

    Love the post! I wouldn’t mind more of these type of posts. Interesting perspective but it makes sense upon reflection. The flip side of the argument though is that when a young entrepreneur hits it big like Mark Zuckerberg, Larry, Sergey, etc, people often give them way too much business credit. IMO, luck plays the biggest role in their successes.

  10. Sean

    I wonder how different it is for entrepreneurs whose first company was not successful. Intuitively they would have gained valuable experience but be driven even harder to make it work since they might have come close to success.

  11. gilltots

    ok who’s the marketing genius that decided to stick “serial” in front of “entrepreneur?” am i a “serial investor” because i bought more than 1 stock? or maybe a “serial father” because i have more than 1 kid? or maybe a “serial programmer” because after i wrote that first program i wrote a bunch more!

    don’t use that again. don’t be a serial offender. i’m not kidding. i’m totally serial.

  12. All My Mac

    We (your readers) learn from the best…

  13. Glenn Kelman

    Good point Gilltots, but it is possible to invest in many companies at one time, while it’s hard to start or lead more than one company at a time. At least in this sense, entrepreneurship tends to be sequential or serial…

  14. John Ramey

    Kudos on a well written post. People don’t take a step back and make fun of themselves or analyze their flaws nearly enough.

  15. Faramarz

    The fact of the matter is that these serial entrepreneurs have made their fortune through previous entry starups, have been acquired -and essentially financially wealthy individuals- but don’t put a dime of their own money into the next project. they don’t, because the capital community makes it extremely easy to gamble with money other than their own. Every goddamn venture capital firm is lining up at the door handing out cash as if it’s holy water. The VC community has lost or doesn’t have any discipline and unfortunately, more cases than none, those backed startups rarely bring any value or substance once the hype has died.

    I applaud the angel groups who take minimum 6-9 months before writing any checks. they study the party carefully because it’s their money rather than the firms ‘portfolio on the line.

    In any case, nice post for ca change!
    Cheers Glenn

  16. nitsuj

    Great post! I like the idea of having occasional guest posts.

    FWIW being as “asshole” comes naturally to me, too, but I find that it’s not so much me being as asshole as others wanting responses to be sugarcoated in “managerial” speak

  17. kelisi

    Seems like a sales pitch just to get techcrunch readers to go to Redfin’s site.

    Glenn, get your own blog.

    And Michael, stop being a baby. Did the big bad commenter’s hurt your feelings?

  18. nemrut

    What a refreshing post. Informed, insightful, honest…Glen you should start a blog, ‘Reflections of a Former Nerd turned CEO’ :-)

  19. Jon

    He should have made a distinction between poor serial entrepreneurs and wealthy ones. There is a huge difference, one NEEDS to achieve some level of success while the other treats a new business as a game of chess. Both may have passion and deep commitment in their ideas but at the end of the day, one has daily reminders of failure while the other of success (basement vs castle). There is incredible knowledge that can be gleamed by both though that is of value to everybody in the business community.

    Luck has more to do with success then talent though, just because somebody got hit by lightning once doesn’t mean their odds have suddenly increased to get hit again, first time or serial. ;-)

    Jon

  20. Jordan Mitchell

    One of my favorite Yvon Chouinard quotes is “only from the extremes of comfort and leisure do we return willingly to adversity”. That said, I’m generally more skeptical of execs AND founders who have already made a ton of money, and want to get back in the game.

    I’ve witnessed too many highly comfortable individuals *want* to get back into the startup world because they remember the good days and they’re bored, but bail when they begin to remember just how hard it is to build a company. The more $ they made, the harder they’ve forgotten how to WORK.

    Startups are hard, whether it’s your first or fourth. In my opinion, you’ve gotta have something driving you past the point where you consider giving up — the “eye of the tiger” (ughh, Rocky too?). Maybe it’s pure competitive drive, maybe you just can’t stand the thought of having to get a “job”, or maybe you just have to show some assholes that you’re better than them.

    Whatever it is, if you don’t have that drive and especially if you’ve already made your money — you’re far more likely to bail when the shit starts to fly.

  21. SG

    Glenn had a cool post over on Guy Kawasaki’s blog a few months ago - I enjoy reading his articles;

    gilltots, whats more serial?
    Manbearpig or the smug cloud? For serials!
    ;)

  22. Richard Pendergast

    Great post Glenn - Hope things go well with your third and forth ventures :)

    I welcome the alternatative writing style. In my book TC has made real inroads lately. While it’s always been worth the read, historically that’s been because of the referrals to somewhere or something else, and the opinions linked to each. I’ve always used TC as a market research tool to find out who is doing what and how.

    The new feature content creeping in here and there is valuable in it’s own right, and interesting not just because it sends you somewhere else. It’s almost like TC is becoming a destination as well as a roadmap.

    Sure, I’m on the ball. I know who is doing what and how, and in some cases I even feel like I understand the why, based upon a picture built up from different sources. But how cool is it every now and then to read about the actual people behind the what, how and why?

    Mix it up, and you’ve got something really good going on here. After all if I simply wanted referral there are any number of blogs and sites now detailing the 200+ ways that someone else has built a widget that … etc.

    btw. Go Mike! Get personal with your audience :) See #4

  23. YetAnotherSerialEntr...

    great article Glenn and Mike and I enjoyed this as much as anything any regular has written. Fresh and honest perspective is what this koolaid drenched valley needs. Yeah, I know of what Glenn writes… all too much.

  24. Zoli Erdos

    A very good post indeed - ironically coming from a ’second timer’:-)
    Oh, and talk about irony, I just came here from reading this:
    http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/1.....2007111414

  25. Fabian Schonholz

    Nice post. Thank you.

  26. Tony Wright

    Hey Glenn– great great great post.

  27. Andrew

    the problem is that your first start up is most likely something you are truly passionate about, something you thought out for years, because you were pissed off that there was no product like the one you wanted to use.

    The 2nd time around, ideas aren’t as hot because you used up your good one already, or much worse is that you just pick an idea because its the bandwagon thing to do and everyone is doing it.

  28. 5tacos

    Great post!

    5tacos

  29. Kyle Else

    Who cares if it’s a guest post, Kelman is the media’s #1 gigolo - Redfin is the RockStar here - keep going and turn the industry into a transparent conversation for the consumer.

  30. All My Mac (MA's "Asshole")

    Congratulations Glen on a phenomenal post! What I meant was to praise you and offer my advise on a change of executive co-editor? Michael, you still have the strength to criticize. Erick Schonfeld is simply promoting start-ups and failing to critically evaluate. Erick was better off at Business 2.0 while Duncan Riley is much more formidable for the co-editor position.

  31. Chris R

    I reread the post and Glenn and I really have a lot of the same thoughts….As we get ready to release the first Canadian engine ever and finally show google how search SHOULD be done, we are going through many of the same struggles he mentions that entrepreneurs go through.

    I’m proud of the fact that my team has been proven to be one of the brightest in Canada and as we continue to release new blockbuster products, it is important for us to keep in mind the wise advice Glenn writes in his post, especially as we ascend to our greatest triumphs to date.

  32. Steve Jobs

    Great post.

    I’ve seen parts of this happen — some of the reason for the lameass Web 2.0 sites is because VC’s often times can’t see beyond a pedigree and to the heart of the stupid idea being presented: http://www.fuckedsuit.com/?p=6

  33. Eric

    The phenomenom isn’t limited to the tech industry by any means. Think about bands that came out of nowhere and released hugely successful debut albums only to fall victim to the sophomore slump and never release anything close to their initial work. No matter what we’re talking about, it’s tough to keep the passion alive once you’ve “made it”.

  34. MikeW

    Now I like Redfin

  35. Sammy

    Chris R.:

    Stop.

    Karma is a bitch.
    And not yours either.

  36. BJ

    I love too how many serial entrepreneurs will admit that it’s ridiculous that VC’s will invest in them the second time with no business plan, no marketing strategy, just a simple markup of an idea.

    Is it a ‘proven management team’ when the guys don’t even know their market? A lot of serial entrepreneur web 2 companies seem to be folding…. maybe it’s time to invest in some more 20 year olds who smell bad, working out of a studio apartment, but aren’t worried about the mortgage or the family time or anything else. I like guys who jump all in ’cause they have nothing to lose

    For the record I don’t consider Glenn’s company web 2.0… redfin has great potential and my friend who works there loves working for him

  37. Dazed

    Glenn is a funny guy (in real life); and what he has done so far with Redfin is pretty amazing. Go Glenn! I hope Zillow buys you for $100 million plus! You are practically neighbors.

  38. Antje Wilsch

    “Venture capitalists have lined up with funding.”

    One thing getting on my nerves lately is how many blogs make it sound as though VCs are just throwing money at anyone who walks in the door with an idea on the back of a napkin. I talk to a lot of people going through the rounds and it’s not easy raising capital. The best bet seems to be if you’re known, have done it before, and therefore probably already have an existing relationship with the VCs, so perhaps this in itself is a strong driver in perpetuating this cycle. The VCs want a repeat performance, so someone who’s been successful in the past and has the existing relationship will much more easily get their new idea funded than the ‘young’ (unknown) person.

  39. Joe

    Great post, much enjoyed reading it. I’m not sure that I buy into the theory that second time entrepreneurs have a lower chance of achieving phenomenal success. I think its more simple than that - phenomenal success, by definition, is extremely rare. Being phenomenal successful with multiple startups is like lightening hitting twice.

  40. Samson

    thanks Glen, Good post.

  41. will

    I’m in the process of launching the first californian search engine EVER! . . . its the largest underserved segment ever left behind by google. . . despite of the big G being located in Mountain View, CA. what dumb asses!

    Did you know if california was a country it would be the 6th largest economy ever! . . . even more relevant over $1,000B is spend on advertising by californian businesses a year. . . if I only capture 1 basis point of that advertising spend!

    its ridiculous no one ever thought to launch a californian search engine. . . I’m gonna be rich. . . so rich!

  42. Glenn Kelman

    Antje: Redfin has never quite been the darlings of venture capitalists, so I should have been less flip about their willingness to invest in just anyone.

    Dazed: Real estate information sites wouldn’t want to buy Redfin because the acquisition would antagonize real estate advertisers. We’ve always known we have a long, interesting road ahead of us, unless of course we run out of money!

    BJ: thanks for your kind comment. Redfin is a Web 2.0 company in that we were one of the first to combine data and tools from different online sources into one application: listings and government records on a map. Our application isn’t as social as we would like it to be, in part due to rules about commenting on other broker’s listings that led to fines against Redfin this summer, in part because our site just needs to get better.

    To everyone who refers to the company as my company: Redfin is a group effort, and I like being part of the group (really true, even if it just sounds like a cliche). Thanks for all the kind words!

  43. Samson

    @41
    Who in their right mind calls the people at Google d*******s.

  44. alex

    Today Michael Arrogant called his customers assholes. (#4)

    Today I read Techcrunch for the last time.

  45. Maurio

    Great words from a familiar voice. Enjoyed the article.

  46. Fake Michael Arrington

    #4
    There is only one asshole here and it is me.

  47. Chris R.

    “Karma is a bitch.
    And not yours either.”

    Bad press is my press Sammy, bring it on.

  48. Json

    Hey Glenn:

    I’m a big fan of you and your company for your brazen defiance of the real estate infrastructure.

    I wanted to ask you a question, if you’re still around..

    I’ve got some realtor friends, and they sure spew some dirty filthy stories about your company; stories that you and I know are blatantly untrue. My question is: you know the real estate establishment is out to destroy you by any means necessary–and are actively attempting to do just that–how do you establish yourselves in a steadfastly old school market as a radical innovation? (I know you already have your foot in the door, but I’m talking about the mainstream, here.)

  49. Mariana O.

    Thank you for the excellent post! We’ve recommended it in Venture Commons

  50. Ummm

    Glenn - good post. Mike - good call - always good to shake things up.

    Chris R - please go away. Or at least sign your posts with a link to your YouTube video so others can see the dynamic, exciting and vibrant work environment you work in (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xKHz-UsMVQ)…. (people - please watch this - it’s a bloody classic).

    Can’t wait to see your ’search’ engine fall flat on it’s face as you deal with the 40 hits a month you’ll be getting.

    And word of advice: this is a comment thread about entrepreneurs - not piss ant college students who work NINE TO FIVE so why are you even here?

  51. Ray Burt

    To Michael: guests posts seem fine — what would be really great is if you share how you decide which guests to (allow/invite) to post! That kind of openness (like the pre-IPO PayPal openness) would go a long way to making these great.

    To Glenn: you seem to post a lot - in many places. Did you do that (or write articles, etc.) during your first startup too or does the 2nd time around allow you more time to spend doing these things?

  52. Rajeev

    May be they should take lesson from Sir Jack Welch of GE and spend more time in hiring the people who could take their second organisation to same dizzying heights as the first one. Choose professional managers who still have passion and fire in their belly. Hire turn arounf managers and they will sure burn your normal growth organisation with super growth.

    Take persannel interest in ERP,SCM, CRM reports and trends and set the direction and co -ordinate with your leader.

    Harvest idea’s from the most subordinate of Knowledge Economy workers.

    Is this a long comment?

    http://tekno-world.blogspot.com

  53. who

    is it just me or does redfin have a ton of blogs, but glenn doesn’t have his own?

  54. Ray Burt

    who: http://blog.redfin.com/blog/author/glenn_kelman/

    the corp blog might as well be his blog

  55. Martin Edic

    For once I’d like to see a post on how the second companies (or third or fourth) differ in approach, style and goals from those started by the young hungry entrepreneurs. This post is a start but how about a Techcrunch-sponsored study of the companies? How many succeed? What was the founders’ intent? Is speed to market as important when you’re not broke and hungry? What skills transferred? How important was luck and timing the first time around (lightning rarely strikes twice)?
    I’m on my third go round and this time I have a very different set of goals, a very different timeline, etc.

  56. Glenn Kelman

    Ray Burt: Good bust. I didn’t write blog posts at Plumtree because we didn’t have a blog. I just wrote long, crazy emails in the middle of the night about how we had to change our strategy, or work harder, or keep the faith.

    And yeah, I worry about spending too much time writing when Redfin, like any startup, is fighting for its life. I work a lot, and try to cram something like this into a long Sunday night. Other people watch TV or play tennis.

    Even now, I am responding to these comments when I should be…

  57. M

    There are great points throughout this article, primarily that just because one has succeeded before, it doesn’t make him a better investment the next time.

    As Gekko said, “Give me a kids who are poor, smart and hungry.”

  58. Mike Johnston

    It seems everyone is hot or cold on this subject. The one thing I have seen is that this “Web 2.0 Bubble” that everyone keeps talking about seems to be fake. Are not all these VCs actually looking at bottom lines and business models today? This was not present in Web 1.0 for sure.

    Maybe when you look at things like Facebook you wonder what the value is, but I submit to you that the value is in the users themselves. Advertising is still an “impression” driven business. On the other hand, some point to Club Penquin as being the true poster child for “bubble”. Have you done the numbers on their revenues? Disney will have their investment back in a little under five years. That’s better than anyone is going to do in real estate today!

  59. Matthew

    Fantastic post, thanks for sharing!

  60. Chris R.

    “Can’t wait to see your ’search’ engine fall flat on it’s face as you deal with the 40 hits a month you’ll be getting.”

    Where’s your search engine. Mine’s right here. LOLZ

  61. Mike T

    Great post, Glenn.

    From my observations of the entrepreneurs’ world, I noticed that most of them light up like supernovas when they create their first company, only to become small dwarves with their next “big idea”.

    The difference here is that first times, they find problems important enough to make them find a solution. This is how they become big (Facebook is an exception - Zuck didn’t expect to become that successful when he started it). However, after they sell their first baby, they are looking for problems to be solved. This is totally opposite to their first experience, when the problem found them and they found a cool solution to it.

    Also, there is the “successful trader” effect here: a successful bet makes you think you’re smart and you think that any idea you have will be as successful, if not more, as your first success. And using others’ money makes it even easier to start the second company - VCs believe in you and your money from the first hit are safely invested elsewhere. Of course, this does not apply to everyone.

    Cheers!

  62. Chris R.

    “not piss ant college students who work NINE TO FIVE so why are you even here?”

    WTF? What do you have against college students? Hey, remember facebook?
    Most College students have more talent in their pinky finger than 95% of the entrepreneurs listed on this website?
    What’s you specialty? Driving exotic cars, and creating a junk bond financing scheme with the internet, that’s really useful. Right up there with garbage man.

  63. Chris R.

    Hit submit too fast, should read:

    “What’s you specialty? Driving exotic cars, and creating a junk bond financing scheme with the internet, that’s really useful. Right up there with garbage man.”

  64. Chris R.

    =~ s/you/your/;

  65. Hipshott

    Chris R - Has nothing to say other than its ‘blockbuster’..w.e, your bad press is our amusement or is that annoyance. Bugger off.

    On a more serious note, if you apply what Glenn says about the SV experience to small towns like Austin you have a compunded effect: Repeat offenders with a small pool of nervous VC’s and one whale> Austin Ventures. Who keep a deck of above average but only just CEO’s on tap and a swarm of Indian Mafia MBA’s to .xls you to death. No wonder the start ups here would rather live off of Adsense revenue than take funding from a VC or a wealthy exit individual.

    We make it alone or we don’t make it.

  66. Chris R.

    I can’t bugger off right now, I’m off compunding things with my fancy pants education.

  67. Bob Warfield

    The great mistake in this thinking is summarized at the end:

    But to be really great, I wonder if second-timers have to forget some of what it cost us so much to learn.

    Real entrepreneurs are constantly learning. In reality, what they’re doing is getting inside the OODA loop of a major market or competitor. It isn’t about what they know at any point in time, it’s their uncanny ability to see what will happen and anticipate a moving target.

    More on my blog:

    http://smoothspan.wordpress.co.....s-succeed/

  68. Dmitry

    This article just made me scrap my presentation (for investor) and start over. I realized that even though I thought I had everything figured out, and the fact that I’ve done all of this before and though I can just do the same thing in fraction of the time and cost, made me realize that I should be more cautious and realistic.

  69. Kelly Smith

    I never cease to be amazed at how mean some people can be.

    Here you’ve got a guy trying to run a company taking time out of his day to try to share some potentially relevant and insightful thoughts. And to think that there are people walking this planet who actually make insane comments like “stop writing here - get your own blog - we don’t come here to hear from you”.

    What is wrong with this planet? As far as I can tell, the ONLY thing you can always bet on is that people are always going to treat other people like shit.

    Pretty F’n sad.

  70. befreenistan

    Here is one of the reasons why the 2nd time isn’t necessarily as profitable/big as the 1st time. The 2nd time a successful entrepreneur steps up to do something, they follow a much more institutional process of getting their start-up off the ground than the first time. They raise money much earlier and easier…at the concept/napkin stage. This is dilutive. They bring in top/senior management much earlier because they expect it to be bigger, this is doubly dilutive. The more senior, the more stock. After the easy first round, the easy 2nd round is expected and finsihed…further diluting the founder, but the previously successful founder has assumed zero risk or hardship other than opportunity cost this time around. Now for the exit…strategic buyers are much more likely to buy the company of a successful founder with 2 VC rounds behind it. Boom, everybody makes quick, painless money. But the money made is so much smaller for the founder because his/her risk at each step was so hedged. Have you ever wondered why successful former CEOs/Founders even raise money? Why do 8-figure guys raise money so early and suffer dilution? I take it Glenn owns less than 8-10% of Redfin…if they sell for $200 million cash…after liquidation preferences of 2 rounds of financing and accrued dividends, the CEO might pick up $15 million if he owned 10%. Now, is it easier for a moderately wealthy CEO to finance themselves and build a company and sell it for $30-40 million owning 75% or is it easier to assume no risk, but get paid off so poorly on a whopping $200 million exit.

  71. Chris R.

    “As far as I can tell, the ONLY thing you can always bet on is that people are always going to treat other people like shit.”

    “better the devil you know”

    Even bad conversation is better than no conversation. That’s a proven fact. Look at Paris Hilton. I’d rather get shred up in an article in the NYT than a glowing review in the Buckbill creek journal.

  72. befreenistan

    The 2nd time around, a successful founder or CEO is able to avoid all risk when doing a start-up. In fact, if you raise money early, you get money FROM the company as salary from Day 1. Founders and CEOs pay for not assuming risk on the exit. I’m sure that Glenn Kelman has received more in salary from Redfin to date than he has put in…how big a score can you make when you structure things this way.

    Amazon - Jeff Bezos, 13 years after starting AMZN owns 100 million shares or about 25% of the shares today. After umpteen offerings. He had 49% at or maybe even after the IPO as I recall.

    Apple - Jobs got fired. The bulk of his wealth came from Pixar not Apple. Even his Apple wealth was because he sold NEXT to Apple. After he got fired in the 80s, he sold all of his Apple stock.

    Dell - Michael Dell didn’t raise money until he was considering going public…and Goldman Sachs convinced him to do a private placement. That’s why homes is so rich.

    Ebay, Google, and Yahoo! - each of the founders held on to huge enough stakes where they were able to resist the institutional imperative to sell early. As Zuckerberg is able to do. When you get too diluted, you can’t.

    MSFT - Gates, Allen, and Ballmer owned over 60% AFTER the IPO. MSFT’s only investment prior to IPO was $1 million from David Marquadt for 5%.

    ORCL - Ellison never sells shares and they never raised money in the first 5 years of existence. He is in debt like $1 billion because he never sells ORCL shares, but instead borrows against the shares to live large.

    The lesson is this: DON’T GET DILUTED. You will make more on a $20 million exit than you will on a $100 exit if you avoid this. And guess what, there are a lot more buyers at $20 million than $100 million. And you can sell earlier in your company’s history and get paid.

  73. Maria C.

    Thanks for the post. I really liked the approach you took to the serial entrepreneur storyline. While repeating the mistakes of the past can sink you the second time around, I think the key is being self aware and realizing that you have both strengths and weaknesses like anyone else.

    Contrary to the post on taking money earlier, I actually think a lot of second timers are doing exactly what you say at the end of your post - self funding through the first phase in order to keep control. That way, they avoid massive dilution and can get better terms.

    Our founder posted some interesting comments about your post (he is a second time entrepreneur as well) on our blog.

    Maria

  74. Jose d

    I liked the post, as it rings very true to me. Newbies are going to have a harder time than those with past experience – that happens in every industry.

    And I agree that it can stymie innovation. Look at the movie industry. You’ve got “bankable stars” putting out crap and there are tons of filmmakers and actors who can’t get a job. Did anyone see “Bee Movie?”

  75. Dan Gudema

    I think that a generalization can’t be made here, since every case is different based on different people. Some people hit it once, and do it again, while some lose it all the second time around or fail miserably. Though I will give you some of my own thoughts, which are of course generalizations. From what I have seen, early success and belief that one has actually believe they have a winning formula, can be the reason that the second time around is so difficult. Then there are people who failed the first, second, third, to tenth time and hit it big.

    Let’s face it, these first timers, who are really capable, are typically in the right place at the right time… So, luck is the primary factor of first timers. I have heard this from them in interviews over and over from successful entrepreneurs. Like it was during the first Internet boom, the second boom or they happened to meet the right person at the right time. This is just like any other industry. People made it big in railroads, oil, cars, HagenDaz, etc., etc, especially during these industries growth phases. Just look at the Microsoft deal with IBM. Think that brilliance was at work. They basically bought DOS from a guy who made it for fun.

    So, let’s eliminate the first success factor and decide that fate does have something to do with it. Win the lottery second time around. It does happen, but lightning rarely strikes the second spot twice. Second time around requires more brains and money, because you are not getting lucky this time around buddy. You are going to have to work for it, like every other struggling entrepreneur.

    Youth does have something to do with it, especially in services that mostly sell to, you got it, to youth markets. That is what these Internet booms are all about, servicing youth markets. As the volumes of young Internet users move into their 30s, 40s and 50s, you will see this industry age a bit.

    If you are trying to evaluate entrepreneurship with measurements and valuations on first, second, third attempts you might as well be playing craps. The most important thing is they do attempt again and stay away from a real job.

  76. Cereal Entrepreneur

    Cmon meow

  77. nick

    First time around, you have to be lucky two ways - lucky that the market likes your idea and lucky that your amateur execution doesn’t torpedo it.

    Second time around, your execution will be way better. You still face the long odds on the idea.

    82% to 70% sounds about right.

  78. Louis-Eric

    #6: “the first Canadian search engine ever”

    ROFL; you are kidding, right ? Did you miss Mamma, Toile, or that unknown little upstart, Google.ca ?

  79. uberinvestor.com

    It really depends on your drive. Some folks are sccessful at their first startup because of the hype (for example what happened during the dot com boom) but they are never able to pull it off. Take example of the guy who started Hotmail (which had no reasonable revenue or profitability). He has mvoed back to India now and has become a real estate developer because his other starups were not successful. Similar things have happened others. Another category is employees from big companies. They usually are so self absorbed with being party of a big company that when they get into a startup they fail to separate themselves from their past performance.

  80. Dotcomkid

    Interesting post - definitely found it be true that sometimes being opportunity rich leads you run too far with inferior ideas…

  81. php indir

    Cmon meow

  82. ARDELL

    The true success of Redfin lies in the tiny ripples it has created. At the end of the day these immeasurable benefits will be their lasting legacy.

  83. HeavyGod

    Really good and really interesting post. I expect (and other readers maybe :)) new useful posts from you!
    Good luck and successes in blogging!

  84. Lee Webb

    Good article. I know last time I tried, I went it alone. This time I am going to get experts to help me. I have a great writer on board (Jeff Lewis) and an internet marketing expert (James Brausch). I think last time my big mistake was trying to do it all myself. This time around, I’ll let experts in each field help me be successful. -Lee