November 3, 2007

Asian Blog Ad Network Leaves Some Bloggers Unhappy

Duncan Riley

126 comments »

The decision by Singapore based blog advertising network Nuffnang to charge a S$1 (69c) administration fee on payments is causing a bit of ruckus amongst South East Asian bloggers.

Nuffnang was founded in April to offer local advertising solutions to bloggers in Singapore and Malaysia. On the face of it, the company is not dissimilar to Federated Media, offering CPM and direct sale graphical advertising, yet on the other hand it promotes itself a bit like Pay Per Post, complete with blog meetups and sponsored parties. Current sponsorship partners include Nike, Citibank and Clearasil. It’s main local competition is a company called Adverlets, that caters to the same distinct market.

The S$1 administration fee my seem insignificant, but local bloggers are unhappy due to the way it was imposed: with no announcement and only discovered when they went to make withdrawals from their Nuffnang accounts (unlike Adsense bloggers can withdraw money from Nuffnang on request). A number of a prominent local bloggers have said that if they knew there was going to be a fee to withdraw money they may not run Nuffnangs code, and would have used Adverlets exclusively (who don’t charge the fee). There’s even a blog dedicated to why Nuffnang will fail.

Singapore and Malaysia may not be large markets in a global blog advertising sense, but the tale is of note when considering how even small things can cause a lot of damage in the new media age. All the money Nuffnang has spent on PR has meant nothing in the face of bloggers angry over a small administrative charge.

Sphere It

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Fresh Blogger Templates

November 4th, 2007 at 12:10 am

This is just really shady. I know of a couple of bloggers who were using this network before, one in particular being Louiss at BloggingSecret.net. I can’t believe those bloggers who used that ad network only discovered they were missing money once they went to withdrawal $$$. That’s a way to lose publishers very fast.
rc

November 4th, 2007 at 12:31 am

leave them and move to blogger
show them consumer power

rc

trading tennis blog
Michael Woo

November 4th, 2007 at 12:54 am

I registered for this network and I made a couple of ringgit (malaysian currency ) for months now! It’s really hard to make money on the network and now they want to charge admin fees - jeez… this is a really bad network -
exapted

November 4th, 2007 at 1:24 am

Tasteless and stupid move by nuffnang. “Maybe they won’t notice…”
uzyn

November 4th, 2007 at 1:45 am

They’ve been going at it for awhile now.

More blogs/articles on Nuffnang-Techcrunch saga right from the mouth of bloggers in the region can be found here:
http://ping.sg/search/1/1/?q=nuffnang+advertlets
Mark Thomson

November 4th, 2007 at 1:46 am

I only wish that losing $0.69 ranked up there with one of my bigger concerns right now. That would be nice.

Seriously. Read the delphi forum posts from “why nuffnag will fail” and you will see that this is a struggling startup with a founder who sounds very honest and genuine about his position.. he seems to have taken a great deal of time to explain the situation in his postings: He writes about the need for transparency, explains why the cost is necessary and admits to making the mistake of not being having disclosed the fee beforehand because they didn’t anticipate the costs.

Was it bad to not anticipate the fee and disclose it? Probably. Does this sound like a genuine mistake by an honest company? Totally.

Duncan are you sure this isn’t the competitor just stirring up trouble, because that’s exactly what it looks like. For [blank] sakes Google won’t even tell me how much of a cut they’re skimming off my cheques.

Who is the one playing dirty again? The company taking $0.69 of every cheque or the company taking [whatever-they-feel-like-this-month] off of every cheque?
tcreader

November 4th, 2007 at 1:55 am

Quote this from Nuffnang Blog:

“NUFFNANG COMMUNITY UPDATE 5: OCTOBER 15th 2007

4. Cashouts and Transaction Fee

The transaction fee of $1 has seemed a controversial decision to some, however, is necessary considering the growing size of the community, and also rising costs. The main bulk of this transaction fee is used to cover bank charges for the processing of cheques. Up till now it has been absorbed.

As a concession, we have decided to absorb this cost till October 31st (A 1 month delay).

For all affected bloggers for whom the cost of $1 has been deduced (This only affects Cashouts in Octoer), in the next cashout, we will credit $1 into your account. “
Ed

November 4th, 2007 at 2:12 am

The problem doesn’t only resides in that $1. If you care to read my other post, I explained why. The response & blog selection is also mystifying.

http://www.thebizwalk.com/adve.....out-money/
Fresh Blogger Templates

November 4th, 2007 at 2:13 am

I would agree with Mark that this seemed more of an honest mistake and hey, at least they are Nuffnang is trying to save face by absorbing the $1 to all the bloggers that were effected. I know that has to effect Nuffnang seeing how they took the $1 because they didn’t have $$$ in the first place.
Ed

November 4th, 2007 at 2:19 am

To Mark, no. In a way, the observations came from me. And also no, I don’t work for Advertlets and not even anything to do with the IT industry. For a startup company not to factor in (possible) operational cost, it tells us how prepared this company is. In truth, a lot of hype or rather publicity was created through bloggers blogging about it when Nuffnang was initially launched. Hence, it can be assumed that Nuffnang spent little on PR on its launch. If these bloggers are paid, then it brings on the doubt similar to what PayPerPost is facing…

In addition, the way PR was done during these crisis also shows us how inexperienced the team is. Response time and such has been long standing issues but until today there are no changes.
arzhou

November 4th, 2007 at 2:29 am

Was this a mistake on Nuffnang’s part to not announce the $1 charge? Most likely.

Even though there was an attempt to explain or rectify the situation, the damage was already done. But at least there was an effort to correct the situation yar?
Patrick Quek

November 4th, 2007 at 2:33 am

Besides the $1 transaction fee woohaa, there are 2 distinct groups of bloggers who love or hate Nuffnang.

Nuffnang only serves direct ads and not CPC or CPM ones.

One is earning good money from Nuffnang, the other is earn nada from the company after months of putting the “I serve Nuffnang” ads.

There are just many bloggers who lack the patience of making moola online with Nuffnang. Of course, there are no such things as get-rich-quick but if the company changes it’s model, things may be a lot brighter.
EH

November 4th, 2007 at 2:43 am

Announcing a deduction from money earned via a blog posting is absolutely retarded. But hey, they “made an effort.” Yawn.
Duncan Riley

November 4th, 2007 at 3:23 am

Mark
possibly, although it did come via a source with credibility. What I am sure of though is that some people are angry about it, whether this is justified is not really for me to say. From what I can gather its the retrospective nature and lack of notice that has made people angry, as opposed to the actual cost which lets face it isn’t a lot.
n-blue

November 4th, 2007 at 3:55 am

Once I found this offer, well that chance for SEA but for dig into the detail it just for Singapore and Malay. They are relatively small, advertiser mostly jump to famouse website or TV. That’s the situation even there are a lot of blogger out therer but still can not gain attention for local avertisers.
Adam Benayoun

November 4th, 2007 at 3:58 am

Running a company require you to be very transparant about your operation.
Many countries and their regulations require to give a notice to your customers in case there is a rise or addition in their monthly fees.

People usually get upset on such rise but then forget about it since they had the ability to switch to another provider, such rise usually are too low to really affect these users and make them switch, the trouble of moving your account is higher than the 1-2$ a month, but for the company its a gold of mine that can give you another 2-3 millions of revenue per month or year.

What nuffnang did is doing such rise and not informing their users, I suspect people are angry about them not because of the small fees but rather of the possibility that their company might take such action and deduct a fee of their hard earned money without consulting or announcing it.

I may not know the whole story, but I think when it comes to money, you’ll need always to give the whole picture to your customers and give them all the options to chose what to do.
Usually customers will stick with you if you’re honest and let them know before the action rather after the action.

http://www.octabox.com
Michael Woo

November 4th, 2007 at 4:09 am

It’s really lucrative when it comes to online advertising. Judging by the number of advertisers on nuffnang, i don’t think that they are not making money - in fact they should have loads of it by now..

But then again, it’s really flexible when it comes to payment in malaysia - sure it will cost you a couple of cents to send a check, but you can also try auto credit into people’s bank account like using maybank2u.com.my or something.

I can’t make any money off this network as it’s really meant for high roller blogs which has tons of traffic. You get a lousy few cents whenever your visitors click on your ads and that’s it. If you have tons of traffic, it’s better to use Adsense as you earn in USD which is x3.4 times malaysian ringgit - more profitable..
Petri Pokka

November 4th, 2007 at 5:30 am

Well, it really seems like a black PR by Adverlets. A really minor change, a really big fuss.
Jon

November 4th, 2007 at 6:30 am

Ad networks are a dime a dozen these days… you would have thought with all the competition that charging any type of fee for administrative costs would be a sure sign of either a monopoly or just plain ignorance of that marketplace. That being said, Amazon use to charge 10$ per check as an administration fee… not sure if this is still true though.

I guess shit happens with good intentions, but at least he realized his mistake and made some attempts to rectify the situation before it got out of control. I hope this decision didn’t cost him too much in lost revenues (ei: bloggers leaving).

Jon
NI-LIMITS

November 4th, 2007 at 7:55 am

Nuffnang is a Malaysian company, which spread to Singapore.

We have had the pleasure of meeting the CEO of both companies and can proudly say that next weekend, we will be launching our own online marketing campaign, and will be doing so exclusively with Nuffnang…

The vibe at Advertlets is just not the same as Tim’s crowd, that’s for sure!
DK

November 4th, 2007 at 8:51 am

I guess the biggest issue here wasn’t really regarding the lack of announcement prior to the implementation of the $1 service charge. It was more of how the $1 was being justified. They claim that the admin fee was necessary because of an increase in their operating cost.

But in reality, there is only a $0.50 increase (per cheque) in their operation cost. The other $0.50 was unjustified.
Chris R.

November 4th, 2007 at 8:56 am

http://why-nuffnang-will-fail.blogspot.com/

People don’t seem to realize that no matter how many readers you have you can’t talk something into failure. Ultimately if people find the service useful they will continue to use it even if their CEO just sprayed bullets into a local McDonalds. People just don’t give a crap in this age.

This is a waste of somebody’s life in my opinion, but that’s just me.

$1 service charge? If they don’t tolerate it, they’ll leave. The fact that they started charging it means that they probably have data that people will in fact tolerate it.
Chris R.

November 4th, 2007 at 9:02 am

I also don’t mean that McDonald’s quote as a disrespect for life, ect… and so on, how people would love to interpret that out of proportion. It’s an exaggerated example to describe a phenomena.
Mac B

November 4th, 2007 at 9:13 am

Chris R,

I think that site could be setup by their competitor.
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 9:17 am

What i think is that Nuffnang expanded too quick. I mean the Singapore market is just a fraction of Malaysia’s market. You setup office in Singapore and there you go, you overheads grew to more than double due to the exchange rate and you tell me you can bring in double amount of business?

Before they consider expanding, they should do well and had broke even in Malaysia. Expanding too quick, unless you have the cash to dump, otherwise all spells trouble.
Chris

November 4th, 2007 at 11:16 am

“I think that site could be setup by their competitor.”

ihatewalmart.blogspot.com/

It’s like the websites that were set up to hate walmart after they crushed all the unionization attempts. They totally didn’t do any good and Walmart simply closed the only store that successfully unionized. It was in Quebec, where we are BTW:

http://www.commondreams.org/he.....210-13.htm

People that have money and power will always beat you unless you can fly under the radar for long enough. These websites that sign up to TC are actually stupid, because once they hit the front page of TC, Google will assemble a team to destroy them. As long as you seem underfunded and out of reach, you’re ok. Garages are good hide out places, so are small offices with Penguins on the door

Seriously though, the only good thing that came out of the wal mart hate was the playboy “girls of walmart” where they got the hottest wal mart chicks to show their stuff. That was entertaining, and people like entertainment. They don’t like bad news and hate material, no matter how corny.

So move forward and not backwards! $1 is a pittance, such as we’re gonna charge people WAY the f more than a dollar. Free W2.0 services are for sucker cap. If you don’t like it simply don’t use their service! Go cry to your mamma.
Chris

November 4th, 2007 at 11:28 am

Um. that was a bell curve of utter nonsense I just wrote. Nevermind all that.
lukxiufung

November 4th, 2007 at 12:56 pm

I am using Nuffang now but won’t last long. I will WAIT until the minimum withdrawal and take the money and leave the ads. The HUGE leaderboard just too much for many blogs.

Sharing my experience here, the 1st ads campaign really made me happy as I earn RM 33 in a week with around 2.5k visitors. So, I guest I will get the money very soon. But, after the first ads, I got only RM 1.75 for each ads campaign which is also weekly based. Some of the weeks I even achieve 5k visitors.

Well, they gave me a reason stated that my visitors are came from US and their ads are Malaysia based… but so how about the first ads? After that, they announce some US ads, I was so happy that time. But, I only earn RM6 ….

After all, they are a monthly prizes when I sign up but so far there are only 3 winners. Stop for couple of months without any notification…
Josh Lim

November 4th, 2007 at 12:57 pm

Josh Lim, CEO of Advertlets.com here.

Woot! Techcrunch! Not exactly how we hoped to be featured here, but still great to know that our little startup didn’t escape your attention…

In the interest of transparency, and to our new international audience, we’ll be keen to answer any questions here that users might have about our policies or earnings.

We believe that bloggers should get the fair share of their earnings, and are happy to announce that we will definitely continue to absorb transaction and service charges. After all, it is something that we as the service provider should and would have logically have factored into operational costs.

In the meantime, would like to point out that AdverTlets is spelt with a “T”, but the link is correct, thanks
Jali

November 4th, 2007 at 1:04 pm

Hopefully they would waive the fee soon. But it is really something when being charged without notice. It’s like receiving bills with hidden charges.
sputnick

November 4th, 2007 at 1:14 pm

I am very impressed with the scope and depth of TechCrunch’s coverage. Having launched in Malaysia in June, we should have known about Nuffnang, but didn’t. It so happens that we needed a good advertising partner to help publicise our site in Malaysia, and Nuffnang may be it.

Their fees are ridiculously low, I don’t know what the bloggers are complaining about. Go figure.
Ed

November 4th, 2007 at 2:07 pm

Jali, Nuffnang have already reversed the admin fee. But Nuffnang’s problem isn’t only with admin fees. There’s a whole bunch more to it.
Juliet Ruetens

November 4th, 2007 at 2:24 pm

a surprisingly badly post from tech crunch with no research or depth.

“A number of a prominent local bloggers…”. Translation: a tiny fraction of the Nuffnang network that are probably just too bloody stingy and bitter for words.

“with no announcement and only discovered when they went to make withdrawals from their Nuffnang accounts”. please, get off the moral high horse, even with a bloody announcement 3 months before implementation, they will still kick up a fuss. why? 1. stingy 2. bitter 3. Asian 4. Blogger

Not earning enough from Nuffnang? Suggestion: start blogging quality posts instead of contaminating the Internet with keywords rigged posts to jack up your traffic with Mr. Google. 3000 traffic, 5000 traffic, so what? it’s all just search engine magic…congratulations on your SEO skills but really, learn some bleeding manners.

Nuffnang is a great thing that will be beneficial to all bloggers in the long run, don’t kill it just because a few ones that are too thick to see the big picture. Many are enjoying Nuffnang, what about the hundreds of posts praising the company? Anyone took notice of them?

69c for lord’s sake.
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 4:12 pm

Juliet Ruetens >>>

Out of nowhere you had this passion in protecting Nuffnang. Your own company? peace out.
Juliet Ruetens

November 4th, 2007 at 4:29 pm

tony tan: out of nowhere you had this passion to shoot down nuffnang? you are competitor? peace to you coz yeah, you’re really out of peace.
MeetingFlex.com

November 4th, 2007 at 6:14 pm

Transparency and Trust are very critical even in Web 2.0 operations.

http://www.meetingflex.com
Social Network + Video - Crap
Paddy Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 6:30 pm

Personally I feel that Nuffnang has to work fast to salvage the entire situations. Made some suggestions which I hope will help them better.

http://tomato75.blogspot.com/2.....an-do.html

paddy tan
BAK2u.com
lukxiufung

November 4th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

Juliet Ruetens
Please, I did not use any SEO before this and those traffics aren’t from search engine… Please don’t simply shot here and there before you know what is happen.

Nobody will shot down Nuffnang if they are really good. People will only speak out when they find something was wrong… please calm down…
Sherrie

November 4th, 2007 at 6:47 pm

Good suggestion Paddy Tan. Although the problems have been spilled out it is time for some very good public relation to refrain it from getting bigger.
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 7:14 pm

Juliet Ruetens>

I shoot them down? Hardly. I can’t even if i try. I was just giving my honest reading of the predicament they’re facing. If they are down suddenly it definitely aint because of what i said in this post.

But you are telling us “Nuffnang is a great thing that will be beneficial to all bloggers in the long run,”

That dont work that way dude, one down and there are hundreds more advertiser.
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 7:17 pm

>>Juliet Ruetens

>>

We do not have the power to kill it, only them can kill themself.
Patrick Quek

November 4th, 2007 at 8:16 pm

@ Josh

Good PR move there!

We wonder where the hell is Nuffnang @ this moment.
DK

November 4th, 2007 at 8:26 pm

The author quoted 3 blogs complaining about nuffnang. But if you were to surf around Singapore and Malaysia blogsphere, you would find quite a few blogs talking about their displeasure with nuffnang.

Have anyone ever wondered why there isn’t much bad press on Advertlets (Nuffnang’s competitor)?

Seriously speaking, SGD$1 is nothing. But its the way that they justify the charges that is causing the problem.
eStee

November 4th, 2007 at 8:56 pm

Truly disappointed with techcrunch for this post. It lacks depth and is very biased. Shows the lack of research committed before writing this. Nuffnang did not charge a transaction amount sneakily, like the way you’ve written it out to be!!

Nuffnang has contributed so much to the local blogging community!
We tend to be over over critical and look past Nuffnang’s contribution to the community by their multiple fully sponsored community events.

I do not support either Advertlets or Nuffnang but I personally feel Nuffnang’s transparency should be complimented.

The blog why-nuffnang-will-fail has been terribly unethical by using guerilla marketing by pimping his own blogsite on my chat box, and many other bigger bloggers. That is absolutely detestable. Sounds like he has a personal grudge.
eStee

November 4th, 2007 at 9:04 pm

The site against nuffnang totally seems like something the competitor set up. Duncan, I think you should have done more research into this before this post. Very very uncalled for.. did you even check or get your facts straight?

I think start ups should have transparency, and by them breaking down their costs for all to see, I think that in fact should be celebrated. Shows that they are not afraid of coming clean when in the face of opposition. I think $1 is ok.

For crying out loud, does anyone remember them lowering the cash out amount from $100 to $50 so that smaller bloggers could cash out quick instead of having their money stuck? Didn’t anyone say thank you or praise them for doing that? Isn’t that something that we should have taken notice of and commented?

Can we all look at the bigger picture????
Sicarii

November 4th, 2007 at 10:49 pm

eStee said: “Nuffnang has contributed so much to the local blogging community!
We tend to be over over critical and look past Nuffnang’s contribution to the community by their multiple fully sponsored community events.”

Right, maybe I am blind or I haven’t been a real blogger or whatever, but where and how has Nuffnang contributed much to the local blogging community? What community events? Those that are limited only to a handful elect that we read about in a handful of blogs and almost always the same ones?

No, I am not bitter or anything. Neither do I blog to make money nor crave attention from blogging. However, I believe that if you want to make a statement like that, the onus is on you to qualify that claim. Obviously, a good number don’t feel the same way and that’s the story here.
Sicarii

November 4th, 2007 at 10:58 pm

Juliet Reutens: Maybe you should get off _your_ own moral high horse and not discriminate against the “stingy, bitter, Asian bloggers”.

There’s no reason to be racist.
Ed

November 4th, 2007 at 10:59 pm

It is very funny to read comments that this plot was manufactured by Nuffnang’s competitor. More ironically, some of these commentors are also fully aware that none of us are working for Advertlets. Yet, to charge out with such a statement of “positioned opposition” sounds a little silly. I don’t know if we should consider that as living in denial. (You know who you are.)

For a company to assume that every bad press coverage is setup by the competitor, is also an obvious hint of the maturity we are looking at here. It’s always not our fault, it must be somebody else’s fault. On the business platform, this is a very very terrible attitude to behold.

The best benchmark and truth is to take a realistic visits to most of the sites that displays both, that is sufficient enough to say who has the ad, and who not. The answer, is out there before our very eyes. There is a truth, that no amount of words can replace.

Coincidently, I happen to read from another blog… Advertlets scored again in good customer respond even through informal means. Can anyone deny that too? I guess not.
http://lly316.blogspot.com/200.....-down.html

While the bulk of praises of Nuffnang comes from a very tiny group of users and often the same few faces, the criticism comes from all diversity. From the average bloggers right up to the professionals.

Look at the big picture indeed, but can we face the truth?
hafreze

November 4th, 2007 at 11:07 pm

I agree, since I’m joining them about 3 months ago, my earning only Rm3.70. that’s equivalent to usd0.80+. but i’m giving them a chance, let the code run even without any advertisement. Well, my patient towards them already reach the limit. So, I’m dropping their code, will not looking forward to work with them anymore. While advertlets although not much, yet still giving me about Rm2-3 per day. more or less, they are featuring me in front of their homepage!
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 11:08 pm

DK > There isn’t much bad press about Advertlet because they do not project faces to the company. They work as a team and you can see clearly their teamwork is better, while nuffnang gives you the feeling something is not quite right in the team like they’;re lacking of something somehow.
Tony Tan

November 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pm

estee> you sound like you’re not getting your facts right because you couldnt! You are part of them of course you would support them duh!

It deosn’t matter how many hundred things you’ve done right, as long you done one thing wrong, your hundred right things doesnt mean a thing anymore.

Thats life my girl. Don’t be sad. They need to grow.
rid

November 4th, 2007 at 11:13 pm

I want to add something. I don’t care how much nuffnang contribute to the community. for me, it is just an added value to some fortunate people. Nuffnang is a business not a community service! since I’m blogging for money, of course I’ll looking for earning, not a rumors or news on getting the movie tickets, eating at fridays or any so call public relation method. I think nuffnang must stay back on their business and not going travel so much(I’m reading the CEO’s blog)
Harry

November 4th, 2007 at 11:18 pm

Look at the discussions here > http://forums.delphiforums.com/nuffnang
Tim Zim

November 5th, 2007 at 2:45 am

Estee -> Are you defending nuffnang because of your close relationship with nuffnang’s boss?
Putera Emas

November 5th, 2007 at 3:37 am

Huhuhu… Round 2 of Nuffnang’s SGD$1.

It’s not about SGD$1, Nuffnang is/was less upfront.

How do you feel if today is your payday and when you check you payslip, you notice that your boss had deducted SGD$1 from you? Happy?

Who that Juliet Ruetens? Why don’t you show your blog address? I know that you fcuking earned a 4-5 digit every months and what is Nuffnang to you, just a peanut. Because Nuffnang is a Malaysian advertising company, you need to defend them!
Paypal2u Bloggers

November 5th, 2007 at 3:59 am

After 6 month using their services. I now assumed that their service is merely a SCAM. I have also rambles about their bad services on my blog. I don’t know why but there is no response from Nuffnang eventhough I contacted them many times.
Steve Ballmer

November 5th, 2007 at 4:46 am

Mostly run by ChiComms, waddaya expect?

http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com
HellFreezesOver

November 5th, 2007 at 5:49 am

Where is Ming of nuffnang now? It seems there been no reply except his galfriend estee.
HellFreezesOver

November 5th, 2007 at 5:51 am

http://9eek9oddess.blogspot.co.....ative.html
passerby

November 5th, 2007 at 8:27 am

The gf should try to think about the consequences of her actions in this situation. Is it worth it? With the almost-famous-status she has created for herself in the bloggers world…
Andrew Ooi

November 5th, 2007 at 9:22 am

I think I’m Nuffnang’s and Advertlet’s most vocal critic. Whenever the ads don’t perform I post about it. I’ve always got input and feedback from both Josh Lim and Timothy Tiah have responded personally via email or blog comment.

In the end it’s all boils down to how much traffic you have. I’m a small time blogger with only total visits of only 100-200 a day. I’ve earned RM 240 (USD 73) from Nuffnang and RM 100 (USD 30) from Advertlets. I think that’s not bad for a beginner like me.

These two (Advertlets and Nuffnang) are relatively young online advertising agencies and they will make a lot of mistakes a long the way. Techcrunch’s article certainly stirred things up. I wish both luck in the battle to survive and become profitable.

PS: I don’t mind the 1 dollar processing fee and think that it’s petty that this is being highlighted in a big time blog like Techcrunch.
Nuffnang Supporter

November 5th, 2007 at 9:44 am

I have this feeling that it is http://why-nuffnang-will-fail.blogspot.com/ stirring shit here.
Ed

November 5th, 2007 at 9:47 am

Apparently, I have sources that tell me Nuffnang has no intention of dealing with the situation at all. I am still trying to verify the information to see if it’s true.
DK

November 5th, 2007 at 6:16 pm

Ed: I hope they aren’t doing that. This is becoming a full blown PR disaster.
Nuffnang Supporter

November 5th, 2007 at 8:18 pm

I am a bit worried now, why Ming has not replied till date? It has been almost 2 full days and he just keep quiet about it. On the last count there are about 50 bloggers talking about this PR disaster. Even I also wonder if they are serious at all.
Juliet Ruetens

November 5th, 2007 at 9:24 pm

i am incredibly disappointed at your lack of blogging ethics. my comment was moderated and has since been deleted. you are only allowing anti-nuffnang comments through. for all i know there are hundreds of logical and rational comments in nuffnang’s favour that you have deleted.

ah duurty durrrrrrrty duncan.
Wayne

November 6th, 2007 at 12:14 am

I believe this situation has been blown too much out of proportion to be even considered quality enough to be up on TechCrunch. I believe it’s simply a case of each to their own delight. Competition is good, but not when it brings out the ugly side of humans and when emotions and defamation start ruining the whole thread of discussion.

Imho, the SEAsian blogging networks are still pretty much in the infancy stage, as advertisers who make use of this service mostly are of an international base. I think that it will continue to grow, but to an extent when hype is many times that of it’s value. For an Asian context, the context of advertising network will still be the close relationships formed through the community. That’s where I believe Nuffnang is building from. How they deicide to salvage and to restore faith in interested participants remains to be seen.

On that note, let us give these networks a chance of survival instead of constantly degrading them to junk. One should understand that these companies thrive on inter-dependency on the offline’s industry’s trust and faith in online platforms.
ShaolinTiger

November 6th, 2007 at 3:27 am

I think this is possibly the worst researched and most biased article I’ve read on Techcrunch and I’ve been reading it since its inception.

I’m not sure what this credible source is, but it looks rather untrustworthy to me.

Being involved in the SE Asian blogging scene I know who the prominent bloggers are, the real prominent bloggers have more than 10,000 unique visitors a day (such as Xia Xue and Kenny Sia) and I have never heard of the bloggers cited in this article, let alone consider them as being prominent.

Have they been mentioned in the mainstream press? For the record their traffic is less than 100 unique visits per day. Prominent? I think not.

Also Singaporean members of Nuffnang were informed of the $1 dollar fee.

Plus what on earth has the Nuffnang hate site got to do with this issue and what is a supposedly credible site like Techcrunch linking to a site specifically created to bad-mouth a company in a juvenile fashion.

BTW there isn’t much bad press about Advertlets because there isn’t many people using them and they hardly have any campaigns. If you go search technorati you’ll plenty of bad and good posts about both Nuffnang and Advertlets.

Anyway the point is, since when did Techcrunch become a platform negative PR campaigns and personal greivances?

Please do some research next time and perhaps ask some people involved.
Khairy

November 6th, 2007 at 4:19 am

both Nuffnang and Advertlets wake up ! you are still paying your web publisher in RM (Malaysian dollar) USD 1 = RM 3.40.

no reason for me to waste my valuable inventory in order to earn that extra dough which is in RM.

no reason to settle anything less than that !

i can easily earned tripled the amount just by running fastclick to replace those ever unrealiable ads from both Nuff and Advert ..
KY

November 6th, 2007 at 6:36 am

How I wish TechCrunch would do a proper research before shooting out such a poor article. The RM/SG 1 fee was announced to the bloggers before it was imposed, too bad for those who doesn’t bother to read their emails.

I see no purpose the hate site is included in this piece of so called journalism, and can only wonder who is behind that site. It looks shady at best.

There are always going to be plenty of comments from consumers of any products or services, but why is TechCrunch only concentrating only on the negative side instead of providing a balanced view? The flexibility with the ability to withdraw any amount of money from nuffnang far outweighs the minute processing cost. Just imagine 100 people withdrawing checks worth a dollar each month and look at the negative impact that brings to the advertiser.

I agree that this is probably in part due to some less than perfect planning on nuffnang’s side, but a small issue like this is taken way out of proportion. I expect TechCrunch to do better.
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 8:15 am

Nuffnang’s shareholders are all the high traffic aka celebrity blogger from Malaysia and Singapore.

The idea of consolidating higher traffic blogs and sell to advertisers as a package was conceived by Ming as you can see here on Xiaxue’s blog >
http://xiaxue.blogspot.com/2007/05/nuffnang.html

Theoritically, Nuffnang is the manager of those celebrities and together, they sell advertising space to local advertisers.

The part where they promise to include bloggers at the tail end of the blogging scene is all but scam. You can register if you have 20 unique click per day but no, they i havent heard of anyone with 20 click per day having allocated an advertisement. I think many bloggers with 100-200 visits per day are even complaining about earning far too little. As little as just $3. So something is not right, alas nuffnang had clarify that your earnings to the advertised week has nothing to do with your traffic on that advertised week. Duh! What does that mean? Nuffnang pays you according to the traffic you attracted the week BEFORE that advertised week. Duh! How can?

You mean when i advertise for you, it is already decided how much i am going to earn? Isnt that a fraud? If so, then then based on what criteria do they decide which part of traffic do they want to include for their payment calculations? If all unique clicks are counter than why so are some bloggers with as much as 500 clicks per day getting a mere few dollars a week? If you kindly just search nuffnang on googles, you could easily find entries which read “nuffnang-earnings-too-low”.

Obviously nuffnang had their concept about the business and it is centered around the high traffic blogs, and when i mean high, i mean 10k-20k traffics a day. Blogs like kennysia.com or shaolintiger and a few others.

Meanwhile they continue to hold events and invite celebrities to be part of crew staging the events as you can easily find video clips in youtube if you refuse to believe this part.

And they would post on their personal blogs about the “successful” event and they are doing this for nothing more than their passion for community. Duh?! Are they putting up a show only?

So far, they have not delivered what they promised in the beginning. I understand courses would change and your business focus might change along the way but no, being manipulative along the way trying to lead bloggers on especially those innocent bloggers who were serious about this Asia’s Advertising Community(or so they call themself) coming onto local scene and giving them a chance of monetizing their blog.

Nuffnang are nothing more than the common “Get Rich” scam you can find anywhere online trying to “teach” you how to make money. Peace out.
NI-LIMITS

November 6th, 2007 at 8:15 am

Sorry for sounding stupid, but is there really no way of tracking down the ownership of this negative blog and see who’s really behind it all…?

We will do the leg work if only we knew where to start…

Since it’s hosted with BlogSpot, there is no WHO IS, but surely, the number of widgets and plug-ins that are used should be able to lead to something…?
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 8:33 am

For those who are keen, there is a place to discuss the Nuffnang and it is here http://forums.delphiforums.com/nuffnang

For supports would support and critics would critisize, thats part and parcel of anything in life.

Whether you love or loath Nuffnang, question is how good are you points? Have they really being victimised? Have they really been such pain in the ass? Have they really been that good as some bloggers had been found saying? Put out your points and let the arguments and debate it. At the end of the day, question to ask is > Has Nuffnang being an angel? Are they not guilty of so many things said of them? Even if it was a genuine mistake, is it not a mistake? And have they dealt with it before moving on? Have they dealt fully with unsatisfying bloggers(or publishers)?

What bloggers really want is for them to come out, put their hands up, and then assure the community that the issue is a one off and they are setting up a PR department to deal with the announcement of all operating issues in the future. That is what bloggers want to hear from them. Not rebutting their concern on blogger’s personal blog and keeping mum about everything as of not. There are unsatisfaction and until they are dealt with, they can’t move forward.

http://why-nuffnang-will-fail.blogspot.com/
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 8:40 am

Why would you want to catch the owner of http://why-nuffnang-will-fail.blogspot.com/ ? The owner has nothing to do with the underlying problems exist within Nuffnang Corp.

What he merely does is to create a gravity online where Nuffnang followers, whether by default or otherwise could have somewhere to raise their issues and concerns.

To accuse the site of being the cause of Nuffnang’s corporate behaviour is like the proverbial shooting of the messenger (of bad news).
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 9:10 am

Some had raised the issue of Nuffnang being unfairly criticized, and tell critics off with a one liner “do-your-research-properly” or “the author-is-biased”.

My feeling is we do not vicitimise but we do not go to the point of giving favour. Why would i want to favour them? Oh because they are providing a community service. Because they are a new startup. Because they are young and bound to make mistake. Because $1 is very petty.

If a company whether a new startup or otherwise, cannot stand on its own, cannot even handle criticisms, cannot see where it needs improving, then i shudder to imagine the real value of its existence. Did they climb up there on merit? Do they deserve to succeed?

It is a fair game out there. You learn the rules and you play by the rules. There are no criticisms and there are no favouritisms. Everyone criticise or favours for a reason. And the reason to criticise can be because of the mole on your face to the color of your shirt. The reason to favour can be because you have money in the business to you have found a way to monetize your blog through the company.

When you are in public, you are prone to be liked or disliked and that is the nature of the game. If you are good finally, you are not good by default or by genesis, you are good finally is because you know how to deal with criticisms in the right order and also play by the rules of the game and apart from that, is determined to succeed. No matter how much ability you have to build webpages or to negotiate for advertisers, if you can’t see where you are not up to mark and needs to improve, then your success may not reach it’s potential.
hvm

November 6th, 2007 at 9:30 am

I run both ads script on my ‘blog’, nuffnang never display any ads on mine except the i serve nuffnang ad button. my earning since i installed the script, RM0… nada… At least i earn something from advertlets, clearly which is better for ME. So much for helping the small blogs.

And Harry,

It’s not that difficult to figure out who is behind the why nuffnang will fail, much harder to figure out what is your motive, at least some of us know including Uncle Sam, Brother Lee, Auntie Ong, Brother Ahmad and few others. May be you can tell us why.

Best of luck for both ads network and pardon for my bad english.
titan

November 6th, 2007 at 12:07 pm

So, i think its depend on you want to use advertlets and nuffnang or not. If you like, you can use it at all of your blog..
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 12:09 pm

There would be criticisms and there would be praises. If you are really that good, why would people want to bring you down. When i say good, i dont mean just good in amassing bloggers by the thousands or getting big corp to advertise with you or renting an office in some skyscrapers.

You are as good as what the community value you. You can friggin good in negotiations with advertisers or celebrities and organising events. But the community consist of many sections and they judge you as a whole, every section has different expectation from you. Unfortunately the most populated section here belongs to the tail end of the community.

Nuffnang is not elected by community to serve advertisement. Nuffnang is not popular by default. Nuffnang is popular only because of its bloggers, once those bloggers disappear so does your popularity. You real job is to make popular decisions so that blogger feels happy and therefore make you popular. I hope you see the linkage.

Your quest for popularity are subject to competitions. When people criticize you, there is a reason and if you refuse to acknowledge and deal with it and move on, then there would be displeasure. People would start commenting on blogs, hate sites coming up, your competitor would arbitrage on the situation and up another notch.

As you can see, a business isnt simply a matter of having the bank book tally. Behind the bankbook are games, rules, tricks and strategy which you need to learn how to apply in what situation. In my viewpoint, Advertlets had done right many things which Nuffnang had done wrong.

My personal message to the Nuffnang Directors, just 4 words - Stay Humble And Learn.

Meanwhile i will continue to educate aspiring entrepreneurs using the example of Nuffnang in the site.
Juliet Ruetens

November 6th, 2007 at 12:31 pm

check out http://www.kimberlycun.com/200.....r-1-dorra/
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

When they decide to implement a $1 fee for every cheque deposits, what was the reason behind that decision? Is it because of the decision of the bank to charge 50cent per cheque? If so then why are they not implementing 50cent? There is a difference of 50cent between the bank’s fee and their fee. Why the margin exists between the amount banks charges them and the amount they charge you?

To pass on the bank’s fee of 50cent to their present consumer is fine; however to arbitrage on the situation by adding a 100% amount to it is not.

What was the consequence? Dissatisfied bloggers raised fundamental points such as why didn’t they give more notice, and what made them come up to that figure of $1. The fundamental question is should or should they not charge you 50cent more if they were indeed implementing the $1 because of the bank. If the 50cent extra was to cover operation cost then why was it implemented at this stage of the business, where in reality operational cost existed even before Nuffnang was launched which was in February.

When Ming and Timothy went onto blogs to explain the reason behind the logic behind the decision to put the figure at $1, more dissatisfaction were created among the blogging community as to the way they decides to defend what they did.

Which raises questions as to the $1, was it really implemented because of the bank’s fee? Even if there were a fee of 50 cent, have they thought of other ways to cut their running cost instead of passing it to consumers (or in this case arbitrage).

Even when the owners think they have the right to implement or update the TOS of their business, we must question.

If indeed it is necessary for Nuffnang to implement a $1 charge to cover their running cost, why did they choose this time to implement? And also use the reason of the bank’s decision to charge them?

Being bloggers advertising for them, we are naturally concern about how honest they are in handling the public. If indeed they had indeed being honest, then should we being their publisher (not even a consumer in this case) should get charged because of added running cost? Do they have the ability to run a corporation?

Did Nuffnang really arbitrage on the situation by implementing fees to its publishers (not consumer in this case) unfairly?

———————-
Original version:

Did Nuffnang arbitrage on the situation by adding 50cent to the 50cent the bank had charge then per cheque out and not being upfront about their intent and therefore raises the issue of high operational cost needing to be covered?
Swee

November 6th, 2007 at 3:23 pm

Hi,

Been reading your posts quite a while and now that I have a website, I shall be participating in your discussions.

I think it all results from not quick on foresight. In any business, you have to inform your clientele when a fee is to be imposed - regardless of the logical reasons behind it. A small note will alleviate whatever displeasure to come. In this case, this start-up forgot - or missed - and hence the storm in a teacup. But wiser on hindsight, it should rectify by explaning why the admin fee was imposed - just as Harry (above) has articulated wisely.
Harry

November 6th, 2007 at 5:51 pm

The chronology of the transition of Nuffnang’s unicorn: to a celebrity beast

I will now state the chronology of the evolution of the idea of Nuffnang, and give you my take of how Nuffnang was used as a publicity device and its intent and purpose in its existence, and with its intended focus which was to profit from extremely high traffic blogs.

Nuffnang was created February 2007 and main concept of the company was to allow local advertisers to advertise on local blogs. The purpose is simply to manage an advertising community and at the same time achieve its communal status as a responsible dotcommer by promising blogs with more than 20 unique visitors per day could register and be part of the supposing lucrative local advertising potential.( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuffnang). Nuffnang had a free hand in deciding what kind of bloggers they want to recruit to publish their advertisement. The problem faced by most bloggers was low daily traffics which mean they make a paltry sum regardless of brand of advertiser.

It was published that giving lower-unique-visits-per-day blogs to have a share of the pie is important for the Nuffnang. Few months later, the tail end of bloggers is still waiting for Nuffnang to justify her campaign. Nuffnang’s purpose was to simply allow tail end bloggers to register with them so as to accomplish a certain advertising campaign hanging their logo on your blog and spread publicity and popularity of Nuffnang. Their campaign in the beginning to include tail end bloggers in their database were meant to use the tail end bloggers to advertise for them using the tail end blogs.

They were to use this device and sell tail end bloggers this apparently “win-win situation” from December 2006 on Timothy Tiah’s blog and increased awareness to the point when Nuffnang were launched and introduced to the public, people rush for to sign up for it. During a period of 3-4 months, they secured the registration of about 5 thousand bloggers and in that period they used them as an advertising medium to spread their bogus campaign. The game was never gonna be zero summed.

Celebrity bloggers were introduced, events organized, this is also the period where they begins to amass some big corp as their advertiser. The beginning of their intent served.

The campaigning to allow tail end bloggers to register with them was not for intent to allow Nuffnang’s advertisement to serve on their blogs. The spirit of spreading their brand of beaming out the logo using the method similar to what we call Multi-Level-Marketing via tail end bloggers.

As such, the situation is that celebrity bloggers were taking a big chunk of the advertising market leaving tail end of even middle end bloggers earning a paltry sum. As they progress, bloggers with fairly decent traffic begin to question. They had earned an amount not commensurate to traffics their blog is attracting. Few bucks a week to list an advertisement on blogs( few thousand unique visitors) is at best can be call a liability especially when Adsense could earn you a few bucks a day and more so in American dollar.

The nature of their concept which was to let the Nuffnang logo surges through the tail end bloggers. This was achieved as of today, 10 months later.

Now their marketing concept has worked but however has elevated to a dissatisfaction situation with bloggers.

Should Nuffnang be trusted further and be endowed with confidence to manage advertisement on your blogs, if they had in the beginning shown a peculiar tendency nowadays towards their publisher(bloggers) wanting $1 for each cheque, without justifying the cause for it?

http://why-nuffnang-will-fail......stion.html
Barry

November 6th, 2007 at 7:36 pm

Those who whine here are malaysians, can’t imagine they can whine so well in claiming foul the foul ones are themself. They even go to the extend of defaming Techcrunch. Malaysia Boleh my ass.
Larry Lim

November 6th, 2007 at 9:54 pm

Personally, I think Nuffnang should be commended for being transparent about the processing fee. About Advertlet’s claim to absorb all admin costs - maybe they are taking a bigger cut out of the advertising revenues?

Either way, if you’re unhappy with Nuffnang then just stop displaying their ads. If you think you own a good, high traffic blog then go with Adsense. Nobody’s forcing you to stay with Nuffnang so quit complaning about it.
huiwen

November 7th, 2007 at 1:54 am

Ed>

what sources are you talking about??? there’s only Ming and I in the Singapore office, and it sure ain’t me, lol.
Sleeper

November 7th, 2007 at 6:20 am

Larry > But the transparent bit was an accident out of their recovery action. Though assumed to be transparent but has left readers judging their honesty in dealing with them.
Lee

November 7th, 2007 at 11:19 am

The non-existent moral high ground

The next quintessential question has got to do with the basis of their TOS. Turmoil is obviously brewing now in Nuffnang, from the implementing of $1, a mild one, to the allocation of advertisements to the earnings of bloggers.

What form the basis of Nuffnang’s operation? The answer to this question is the very reason why bloggers want to join them as a publisher of their advertisement. We must continue to study reasons behind their TOS so as to have a distinct and clarity in clearing the doubts as to the crux of the matter thus far. Many of us will have all kinds of different opinions about what is the motive behind every move of Nuffnang. We will disagree often enough to make each other look very stupid. However there is one thing we do not want is to be part of an internet company in the same genre of “Get Rich Scheme” now pervasive in the internet. What I am presenting is also the very same thing all bloggers want to avoid: to investigate and study possible fraud before it contaminate the community further, fraud is not avoided by simply of its existence by genesis but the persistent study which those promises stand upon.

In this era of internet, bloggers want to monetize their blogs and to do so; one of the good ways is to join an online advertising company that can provide strong advertising rewards. The rewards should not be dressed in appearance by promises, but supported by the pillar that will deliver the promises. The TOS of a company must be free to be question and make believe its honesty dealing with the blogging public. Bloggers are not consumers of the company and until the company can understand that bloggers need more than all things façade.

All the more bloggers must question, and Nuffnang must answer intensely, so that their existence can be proven to be reliable and trustworthy. Whatever appear to be causes of changing of the TOS, the agreement of the transaction must be done so with notification.

Let there be no question that no two companies are the same, but a bad shape of a company is always due to massive discontent!

Bloggers may be convinced to swallow a bitter pill. Bloggers may be convinced to hang a logo waiting for advertisements, but let there be no question that for bloggers to endure seeing high traffic bloggers earning, the company’s leadership must be seen to deliver its promise of sharing the pie with tail end’s community as it promised.

Have the lesson of changing TOS being so lost, that they could no longer justify even why they want to charge $1 per cheque? The responsibility of the company is not giving bloggers a sense of fairness in purpose? The more discontent there were, the more the owners needs to be compensated by charging more money? And in due course, whatever you desire for the bloggers to swallow, be it the pill of sequestration of the registrants by their blog traffics or charging fees without authentic justification, Nuffnang now do not have the moral high ground. Are the owners so disconnected that they failed to see that they have lost the high ground to charge even an extra $1 from bloggers?

The justification of charging $1 does not have logic of a well reasoned platter of how bloggers are benefiting from it even they reduced cashing out amount to $50. Bloggers do not buy your justification if they found it to be not linear to an expectant inference.

To understand the value of able to cash out at $50, we see how much Nuffnang receives by each cash out when they amend their TOS.

When a blogger cash out $100 in 2 cheques, Nuffnang receives $2 in fees which in actual fact is $1 bank charge and $1 into their pocket.

If they had not amend the TOS and withdrawal stays at $100, and a blogger were to cash out $100 in one cheque, Nuffnang receives $1 in fees which in actual fact is 50 cent bank charge and 50cent into their pocket.

Now they want you to withdraw more often for no other reason than because they had now invented this thing very cleverly where they rewrite their rules and arbitrage on every cheque that was delivered to you. It became a win-win situation but the lost on the blogger account was cleverly buried.

Likewise, if they had not amend the TOS to change the withdrawal amount to $50 and had pass on the bank charges to bloggers, then no arbitraging occurs.

But if they had amended the TOS to charge you $1 but withdrawal remains at $100, they would pocket 50cent per $100 withdrawal. What if they allow bloggers to withdraw twice in the form of $50? That means they made double the figure which is $1.

Now they want you to withdraw more! The more the merrier! Hence the lower of withdrawal amount.

A company lower itself to this level of integrity is risking discordance with every stratum within the blogging community. Can a company profiting in obscene quantum together with celebrity bloggers amend the TOS to charge bloggers more than it should and let itself bath in newly acquired wealth and opulence? I do not know.

This Seven quintessential question for your representative: Did Nuffnang have a moral high ground, given its business with extremely big corporations, to change its TOS to benefit itself rather than bloggers, many who had not even made money with Nuffnang?

http://why-nuffnang-will-fail......stion.html
Andrew Ooi

November 8th, 2007 at 4:28 am

I full support share the same feelings as Shaolin Tiger. Those bloggers mentioned I’ve not even heard of before.

The ones who make the most noise are the ones that do not have the traffic to even justify getting ads. I’m a small time blogger whose traffic is only 100-200 visitors a day and I’m happy with the RM240 I’m getting from Nuffnang.

So Harry’s point on tail enders getting zero and celebrity bloggers getting more than their fair share is illogical. This ‘tail ender’ does not share his sentiments at all.
lee

November 8th, 2007 at 5:34 am

It is only illogical to you because you are not part of the the group that were earning meagre figure. As to why you are earning a tad more than normal is something that can be question.

But certainly what you are earining are not enjoy by majority of them and you can choose not to believe what i say but i’m sure you know how to use google.com

To come onto here and support Shaolin tiger’s whining, we should know your relationship with them these celebrity bloggers.
lee

November 8th, 2007 at 6:31 am

I welcome anybody to take a look at this and debunk this.

http://why-nuffnang-will-fail......e-out.html
DK

November 8th, 2007 at 6:38 pm

Yes, I agree that the 3 people mentioned in this article aren’t prominent bloggers. Out of these 3, I only know 1 of them.

But does that means that their words cannot be taken into considerations? Should we only listen to the celebrity bloggers and ignore these bloggers with low traffic? Does having high traffic means that everything they say are the truth? There are several blogs complaining about Nuffnang before this article. Is anyone from Nuffnang looking into the issue raised by these bloggers?

What is Nuffnang’s stand? Are low traffic bloggers not worthy of any ads? If that is the case, why the 20 unique visitors limit? Why not raise it to 1000 unique visitors?

The reason why this whole issue blow up to this scale is because nobody from Nuffnang came out to address the concern raised by the small time bloggers. Are small time bloggers not worthy a respond from Nuffnang? Is Nuffnang only for celebrity bloggers?

Wait… I might not get a respond for this question too. After all, my daily traffic is too low.
Sentosa Girl

November 8th, 2007 at 7:06 pm

Y can’t they pay it through paypal?
Andrew Ooi

November 8th, 2007 at 7:57 pm

Perhaps I’m one of the lucky ones who despite having low traffic is performing well. Am I one of the anomalies? I don’t think so. I have no relation with Shaolin Tiger though I wish I was known to these ‘celebrity bloggers’. But I’m not.

I’m just saying, I have low traffic and I’m a small time blogger. Nuffnang does not ignore me as I’ve gotten fast email explanations from them when I bitched and moan about certain things like like poor earnings/performance.

In fact, I can’t think of any company responding that fast to an insignificant blogger like me.

You can check out my sitemeter traffic to see how low my traffic was.
lee

November 8th, 2007 at 8:49 pm

The fact that it you have durian trees growing behind your house doesnt mean it happens to the rest of the world. Before you defend a stand, make sure you understand what you see do not represent the world. Put your shoe aside and wear others and feel it before you decide whether yo