Comments on: The China Bubble http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/ Startup and Technology News Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:23:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Alibaba Set to Be Second Biggest Internet IPO Ever http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-2014173 Alibaba Set to Be Second Biggest Internet IPO Ever Mon, 03 Mar 2008 02:34:34 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-2014173 [...] high-flying Internet stocks are about to get a major addition when B2B marketplace Alibaba goes public on November 6. The IPO [...] [...] high-flying Internet stocks are about to get a major addition when B2B marketplace Alibaba goes public on November 6. The IPO [...]

]]> By: Xorg Xerox http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1774355 Xorg Xerox Tue, 20 Nov 2007 00:04:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1774355 1. Theres no "cheaters" in the international stage, there are only winners and losers. 2. What you see on western media is about as unbiased as soviet propaganda, of course you don't realize it because you've been feed with it since birth, but its easy to tell the similarity if you actually lived in both countries for 10 years. 3. Reality speaks infinitely more than literature, there's no point arguing about interpretations or truthfulness of an article, if you really care investigate it yourself, say, by paying a visit. 1. Theres no “cheaters” in the international stage, there are only winners and losers.
2. What you see on western media is about as unbiased as soviet propaganda, of course you don’t realize it because you’ve been feed with it since birth, but its easy to tell the similarity if you actually lived in both countries for 10 years.
3. Reality speaks infinitely more than literature, there’s no point arguing about interpretations or truthfulness of an article, if you really care investigate it yourself, say, by paying a visit.

]]> By: » The Week in Geek - Nov. 16, 2008The Week in Geek http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1762297 » The Week in Geek - Nov. 16, 2008The Week in Geek Fri, 16 Nov 2007 03:33:03 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1762297 [...] did a great related piece on “The China Bubble“. Some key points: In 2003, the combined market capitalization of China’s publicly traded [...] [...] did a great related piece on “The China Bubble“. Some key points: In 2003, the combined market capitalization of China’s publicly traded [...]

]]> By: Mark Tu http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1695156 Mark Tu Wed, 24 Oct 2007 01:18:32 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1695156 Thanks for sharing. The comments show that there are a lot of misunderstanding about the China and the China internet space by international business people. Sure, there is inequality in wealth distribution, there is possibly bubble in real estate and stock valuations, there is no public health program, there is over supply of university graduated students, there is population resulted from the massive build up of the manufacturing base and many more problems. However, 1: There is also a growing number of middle class (defines as someone with a household income of more than 50,000 RMB which in real purchasing power to be more than 33,000USD in the US). The private car ownership in China is growing at 30% or more every year which also resulted in the worst traffic jam in the world. 2: The Chinese are getting online and the internet population is growing at 30% of more every year and there are still 100 million or more people to grow. So the trend is going to continue for a very long time. 3: The government is determined to fight the corruption and bring balance to the society. 4: Enterperureship is thriving in China with government strong support (China calls itself the socialists but yet it is the best capitalists in the world) Mark Tu Thanks for sharing. The comments show that there are a lot of misunderstanding about the China and the China internet space by international business people.
Sure, there is inequality in wealth distribution, there is possibly bubble in real estate and stock valuations, there is no public health program, there is over supply of university graduated students, there is population resulted from the massive build up of the manufacturing base and many more problems.
However,
1: There is also a growing number of middle class (defines as someone with a household income of more than 50,000 RMB which in real purchasing power to be more than 33,000USD in the US). The private car ownership in China is growing at 30% or more every year which also resulted in the worst traffic jam in the world.
2: The Chinese are getting online and the internet population is growing at 30% of more every year and there are still 100 million or more people to grow. So the trend is going to continue for a very long time.
3: The government is determined to fight the corruption and bring balance to the society.
4: Enterperureship is thriving in China with government strong support (China calls itself the socialists but yet it is the best capitalists in the world)
Mark Tu

]]> By: Tor http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1694965 Tor Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:57:39 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1694965 @41 nemrut: that's obvious, the overall air quality in greece is of course much better than it is in beijing... people here can only dream to have a blue sky as nice as in greece, this is the truth. greece is indeed great great for life, relax, slow, sea and summer, but the exclusionism, racism and bureaucratism are almost every foreigner who lives there is experiencing, take a search on athensnews.gr and you will find tons of their local english reports, that's a pity of that beautiful place, which made me finally left from there. @41 nemrut: that’s obvious, the overall air quality in greece is of course much better than it is in beijing… people here can only dream to have a blue sky as nice as in greece, this is the truth. greece is indeed great great for life, relax, slow, sea and summer, but the exclusionism, racism and bureaucratism are almost every foreigner who lives there is experiencing, take a search on athensnews.gr and you will find tons of their local english reports, that’s a pity of that beautiful place, which made me finally left from there.

]]> By: nemrut http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692759 nemrut Tue, 23 Oct 2007 04:13:36 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692759 @37 Tor, how's the air quality in Beijing compared to where you lived in Greece? @40, what that really means is that everything is relative. Being 1 in a million in the west is not as significant when compared to the east... @37 Tor, how’s the air quality in Beijing compared to where you lived in Greece?

@40, what that really means is that everything is relative. Being 1 in a million in the west is not as significant when compared to the east…

]]> By: China Growth Video http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692678 China Growth Video Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:31:36 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692678 What are you if you are <a href="http://www.netpaths.net/blog/glogal-shift-happens/" rel="nofollow">1 in a million in china</a>? An exact copy of 1300 other people. What are you if you are 1 in a million in china?

An exact copy of 1300 other people.

]]> By: Alex http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692672 Alex Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:25:18 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692672 Of course, the Chinese domestic stock market has boomed over the past year, going up over 100% in 2006 and going up over 100% this year. The Shanghai Composite trades around 60 times price to earnings - and that's an aggregate covering not only tech firms, but banks, manufacturers, mines, etc. This extraordinary rise was principally caused by companies and government departments investing spare cash which was previously in bank accounts, bidding up the market; now retail investors (your average man in the street) seeing the rise are buying stock (once again your small time investor comes to the party late and gets screwed by the big boys). Chinese company market capitalisation is not something I'd focus on when looking at long term trends. Of course, the Chinese domestic stock market has boomed over the past year, going up over 100% in 2006 and going up over 100% this year. The Shanghai Composite trades around 60 times price to earnings - and that’s an aggregate covering not only tech firms, but banks, manufacturers, mines, etc. This extraordinary rise was principally caused by companies and government departments investing spare cash which was previously in bank accounts, bidding up the market; now retail investors (your average man in the street) seeing the rise are buying stock (once again your small time investor comes to the party late and gets screwed by the big boys).

Chinese company market capitalisation is not something I’d focus on when looking at long term trends.

]]> By: Tor http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692595 Tor Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:50:53 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692595 [EDIT] (amending) - FEW western porn websites which don’t have chinese language are block, even XTUBE.com is accessable. But MOST EVERY porn sites which have chinese language version no matter hosted in where are blocked. (adding) - Some Google and Yahoo image search results are blocked, Google cached pages totally blocked, Yahoo cached are mostly NOT blocked. [EDIT]

(amending) - FEW western porn websites which don’t have chinese language are block, even XTUBE.com is accessable. But MOST EVERY porn sites which have chinese language version no matter hosted in where are blocked.

(adding) - Some Google and Yahoo image search results are blocked, Google cached pages totally blocked, Yahoo cached are mostly NOT blocked.

]]> By: Tor http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692571 Tor Tue, 23 Oct 2007 02:43:43 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692571 I've been living in europe for more than 10 years and just been back from there in June 2007 and have decided to continue staying here for many years. I can tell you what china is really blocking on the internet, for those of you who's thinking that china is hermetical hope this helps anyhow: - FEW western porn websites which don't have chinese language, XTUBE.com is accessable. But MOST EVERY porn sites which have chinese language version no matter hosted in where. - BBC and CNN and all other news/tech/gateway/forum sites I know are able to access (used to be blocked before 2003 once when I was in china, but now many of them is ok to access again) unless they have articles in chinese language AND are **GUIDING, INSTIGATING CHINESE PEOPLE TO** against the china govt. - 3 world largest entertaining (or so) websites are blocked: world largest image sharing website: Flickr, world largest video sharing website: YouTube, and world largest blogging website: Blogsopt (some people in china can access blogspot, but I can not at this time).. Yea, absolutely, this s*cks!! I can say that's all (if I have missed anything, please add it up). I personally feel okay with all of these, i am a web designer and coder and I'm able to visit every website which is useful for me with very affordable monthly broadband connection fee. I pay all my bills here in beijing directly via the internet or some with my cell phone credits, i call food directly on the internet, and i of course also buy a lot of things on the internet too. I check my gmail use my cell phone on the metro, and I don't know, I am just happy with these because everything of these was just a dream for me when I was in greece for last ten years. China is not as bad as what I was hearing when I was in the west, i came back and I indeed was shocked by the change, I believe most of you will be the same if you ever think and try to visit here. I'm telling what I know, of course you can say it's full of bias.. Or maybe based on what you read from your local medias that every chinese people is brain washed, so take my words for just reference or just for fun and do more researches. But I don't think I'm patriotic, or I'm brain washed since I've been out of this country since my high school, I hate and am disappointed with too much things here in this country as you people, but compare to my life in greece, i'm too happy here. I’ve been living in europe for more than 10 years and just been back from there in June 2007 and have decided to continue staying here for many years. I can tell you what china is really blocking on the internet, for those of you who’s thinking that china is hermetical hope this helps anyhow:

- FEW western porn websites which don’t have chinese language, XTUBE.com is accessable. But MOST EVERY porn sites which have chinese language version no matter hosted in where.

- BBC and CNN and all other news/tech/gateway/forum sites I know are able to access (used to be blocked before 2003 once when I was in china, but now many of them is ok to access again) unless they have articles in chinese language AND are **GUIDING, INSTIGATING CHINESE PEOPLE TO** against the china govt.

- 3 world largest entertaining (or so) websites are blocked: world largest image sharing website: Flickr, world largest video sharing website: YouTube, and world largest blogging website: Blogsopt (some people in china can access blogspot, but I can not at this time).. Yea, absolutely, this s*cks!!

I can say that’s all (if I have missed anything, please add it up).

I personally feel okay with all of these, i am a web designer and coder and I’m able to visit every website which is useful for me with very affordable monthly broadband connection fee. I pay all my bills here in beijing directly via the internet or some with my cell phone credits, i call food directly on the internet, and i of course also buy a lot of things on the internet too. I check my gmail use my cell phone on the metro, and I don’t know, I am just happy with these because everything of these was just a dream for me when I was in greece for last ten years.

China is not as bad as what I was hearing when I was in the west, i came back and I indeed was shocked by the change, I believe most of you will be the same if you ever think and try to visit here.

I’m telling what I know, of course you can say it’s full of bias.. Or maybe based on what you read from your local medias that every chinese people is brain washed, so take my words for just reference or just for fun and do more researches. But I don’t think I’m patriotic, or I’m brain washed since I’ve been out of this country since my high school, I hate and am disappointed with too much things here in this country as you people, but compare to my life in greece, i’m too happy here.

]]> By: Jon http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692437 Jon Tue, 23 Oct 2007 01:37:53 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692437 Too bad normal everyday citizens aren't benefiting from this extreme wealth... though the "executives" at the Communist Party seem to be doing quite well... I saw a castle of one that was absolutely amazing. Jon Too bad normal everyday citizens aren’t benefiting from this extreme wealth… though the “executives” at the Communist Party seem to be doing quite well… I saw a castle of one that was absolutely amazing.

Jon

]]> By: youtalkie http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692171 youtalkie Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:58:10 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692171 comment on slide 20: Internet Market Capitalization I don't understand why the following companies are considered as internet companies. China Digital TV(if Cisco considered as internet company, then it is) New Oriental Education(only 1% revenue is from internet) Home Inns(hotel chain), Acorn(TV shopping) Kingsoft( enterprise software like SAP) Those are the most valuable companies on the list. If not counting them, the number will decrease a lot. comment on slide 20: Internet Market Capitalization
I don’t understand why the following companies are considered as internet companies.

China Digital TV(if Cisco considered as internet company, then it is)
New Oriental Education(only 1% revenue is from internet)
Home Inns(hotel chain),
Acorn(TV shopping)
Kingsoft( enterprise software like SAP)

Those are the most valuable companies on the list. If not counting them, the number will decrease a lot.

]]> By: Adi Moga http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692157 Adi Moga Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:51:16 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692157 @32 Hero Doug - but do you know that Chinese government also ban rss feeds? @32 Hero Doug - but do you know that Chinese government also ban rss feeds?

]]> By: John http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692152 John Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:49:01 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692152 31 - I think that's a bit of a naive view of things. P.S. the US isn't the only country that has regulations and laws, in fact most do. There isn't anything "innovative" about copying IP, steeling code or illegally distributing copywritten material, period. Personally I think the RIAA/MPAA need a kick in the ass, and the patent system needs an overhaul, but they are there for a reason. I'm not saying chinese companies can/do not innovate, but I am saying the reasons you are giving are complete rubbish. 31 - I think that’s a bit of a naive view of things. P.S. the US isn’t the only country that has regulations and laws, in fact most do. There isn’t anything “innovative” about copying IP, steeling code or illegally distributing copywritten material, period. Personally I think the RIAA/MPAA need a kick in the ass, and the patent system needs an overhaul, but they are there for a reason. I’m not saying chinese companies can/do not innovate, but I am saying the reasons you are giving are complete rubbish.

]]> By: Hero Doug http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692102 Hero Doug Mon, 22 Oct 2007 23:25:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1692102 @7 Adi Moga -> "China government has banned computers use in universities, does that marked should be trusted ?" No they haven't. I'm living in China now and I've been to a number of universities in a number of cities and they ALL have computer labs. One university even had access to Wikipedia. @7 Adi Moga -> “China government has banned computers use in universities, does that marked should be trusted ?”

No they haven’t. I’m living in China now and I’ve been to a number of universities in a number of cities and they ALL have computer labs. One university even had access to Wikipedia.

]]> By: LiquidBoy http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691974 LiquidBoy Mon, 22 Oct 2007 22:26:50 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691974 One forgets that innovation in the western societies are extremely hampered by laws and regulatsion (like RIAA/MPAA/American Government) etc. China have been free to create amazing technologies and internet websites because they have extremely lax laws around copyright and patents. I dont fully agree with this but i would prefer the lax environment versus what you US have now with patent lawsuits and MPAA/RIAA lawsuits!! One forgets that innovation in the western societies are extremely hampered by laws and regulatsion (like RIAA/MPAA/American Government) etc.

China have been free to create amazing technologies and internet websites because they have extremely lax laws around copyright and patents. I dont fully agree with this but i would prefer the lax environment versus what you US have now with patent lawsuits and MPAA/RIAA lawsuits!!

]]> By: John http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691807 John Mon, 22 Oct 2007 21:05:49 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691807 Look at the actual profit numbers of some of these chinese companies compared with their valuations, in many cases they hardly have any profits and extremely high valuations (remind anyone of 1999?). There is definitely a bubble in a lot of the listed companies right now. I think China has a bright future ahead but you still need to invest with common sense. Look at the actual profit numbers of some of these chinese companies compared with their valuations, in many cases they hardly have any profits and extremely high valuations (remind anyone of 1999?). There is definitely a bubble in a lot of the listed companies right now. I think China has a bright future ahead but you still need to invest with common sense.

]]> By: mmt http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691681 mmt Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:15:18 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691681 It seems like China is a bubble. Nothing grows this fast without coming down. I also think the lack of democracy in China will block growth. You can't have a creative, innovative society with government control. Look at what China is trying to do with the Internet. Once you stop blocking information you reduce innovation. There are a bunch of good article on this at: http://www.bestcashcow.com/library/cloud.html/tag/china One guy sold all of this China Mobil last week, convinced the bubble was reaching a top. It seems like China is a bubble. Nothing grows this fast without coming down. I also think the lack of democracy in China will block growth. You can’t have a creative, innovative society with government control. Look at what China is trying to do with the Internet. Once you stop blocking information you reduce innovation.

There are a bunch of good article on this at:
http://www.bestcashcow.com/lib...../tag/china

One guy sold all of this China Mobil last week, convinced the bubble was reaching a top.

]]> By: TheChris http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691657 TheChris Mon, 22 Oct 2007 20:02:45 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691657 I've had a variety of discussions about China...but here's an interesting theory presented by a friend: China is creating it's own middle class. In do time, so long as they continue to usurp American wealth, they could essentially replace the need for the American consumer with their own consumer class. They only need to replace 300 million consumers using their population of 1.3 billion. If successful, they would then remove the currency peg and snatch up U.S. assets on the cheap. There are a few wildcards. The Chinese are inefficiently using natural resources, which could lead to scarcity issues. Of course, there is also potential for political instability. I’ve had a variety of discussions about China…but here’s an interesting theory presented by a friend:

China is creating it’s own middle class. In do time, so long as they continue to usurp American wealth, they could essentially replace the need for the American consumer with their own consumer class. They only need to replace 300 million consumers using their population of 1.3 billion. If successful, they would then remove the currency peg and snatch up U.S. assets on the cheap.

There are a few wildcards. The Chinese are inefficiently using natural resources, which could lead to scarcity issues. Of course, there is also potential for political instability.

]]> By: jon http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691566 jon Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:21:44 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691566 now if mark and mike have their way, facebook will be #1 by end of 2009!!! :) now if mark and mike have their way, facebook will be #1 by end of 2009!!!

:)

]]> By: William A. Towler http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691550 William A. Towler Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:15:32 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691550 Interesting Interesting

]]> By: nemrut http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691519 nemrut Mon, 22 Oct 2007 19:00:07 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691519 The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it's not only US investors participating in the China boom, but actual Chinese citizens who, with the highest savings rate in the world, are opening up their piggy banks to get in on the ride. The interesting thing about this phenomenon is that it’s not only US investors participating in the China boom, but actual Chinese citizens who, with the highest savings rate in the world, are opening up their piggy banks to get in on the ride.

]]> By: I don't need an ipodom http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691517 I don't need an ipodom Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:59:47 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691517 Market Cap of Chinese stocks is now larger than Japan's. But hardly can you pick any multinational chinese public companies from the stock list. The whole country is in a stock frenzy, everyone from retirees to gov. officials are pouring their savings into stock market. There's even a pop song dedicated to this frenzy, dubbed "I won't sell my shares even I have to die". All the stocks, good or junk, are pushed higher round by round. Even the companies who have no business activities anymore. It's definitely a once in a century opportunity for investors who know when to quit. Market Cap of Chinese stocks is now larger than Japan’s. But hardly can you pick any multinational chinese public companies from the stock list. The whole country is in a stock frenzy, everyone from retirees to gov. officials are pouring their savings into stock market. There’s even a pop song dedicated to this frenzy, dubbed “I won’t sell my shares even I have to die”. All the stocks, good or junk, are pushed higher round by round. Even the companies who have no business activities anymore. It’s definitely a once in a century opportunity for investors who know when to quit.

]]> By: Serge http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691455 Serge Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:20:09 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691455 Train of thought seems to be missing here: you first start with Internet companies but then take to Oil and Finance. Comparing Google and Microsoft to the top 40 list is stupid - they are in a different industry!!! Just it would be stupid comparing Bank of China with Sohu.com! What's next, an article on comparison of Chevron with Google? Train of thought seems to be missing here: you first start with Internet companies but then take to Oil and Finance. Comparing Google and Microsoft to the top 40 list is stupid - they are in a different industry!!! Just it would be stupid comparing Bank of China with Sohu.com! What’s next, an article on comparison of Chevron with Google?

]]> By: Murshed http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691450 Murshed Mon, 22 Oct 2007 18:14:17 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/22/the-china-bubble/#comment-1691450 i was just checking the Chinese telecommunication companies .. and boy they look very similar to QCOM in 1999 .. especially CHL China Mobile .. although it looks like the bubble is going to explode at any moment .. it hard to predict the exact price .. any one knows if there is any ETF for Chinese Internet companies? i don't want to miss the put opportunity! i was just checking the Chinese telecommunication companies .. and boy they look very similar to QCOM in 1999 .. especially CHL China Mobile .. although it looks like the bubble is going to explode at any moment .. it hard to predict the exact price .. any one knows if there is any ETF for Chinese Internet companies? i don’t want to miss the put opportunity!

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