Does Google’s Equality Drive Extend To Old People?
Duncan Riley
77 comments »
Google posted earlier today on its efforts towards building a workplace that provides equal treatment to all staff. Google noted that it has ranked highly on the U.S. Human Rights Campaign Corporate Equality Index during a “time of rapid growth for our population of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender employees (whose group name is, naturally, Gayglers) around the world.”
Google’s inclusive work environment for GLBT employees should be commended, but does equality in Google extend to old people? Brian Reid doesn’t think so.
Reid is a former Google Director of Operations and Engineering and in now entering his third year of battling Google for unfair dismissal. Reid claims that despite receiving positive work reviews he was dismissed by Google after being told he was “slow”, “fuzzy”, “lethargic”, and did not “display a sense of urgency” and was told by a manager that his ideas were “obsolete” and “too old to matter”. Reid also noted in evidence that some of his colleagues referred to him as an “old man”, an “old guy” and an “old fuddy-duddy”.
It would appear that Reid did act in a fashion that was different to the general working ethos of Googlers. By his own admission Reid would leave work at 7pm and noted that he was regularly asked why he wasn’t remaining at work when Google provided dinner for its employees. An issue with diabetes also meant that Reid was required to eat at regular intervals, even when this meant interrupting meetings.
Google has denied the allegations, saying that Reid was let go after the project he was working on finished. An Appeals court has allowed the case to proceed with a trial date to be advised.
He has a solid case from what I’ve read. I hope he wins. Google is “evil” in this case and needs to make it right.
Full Disclosure:
I own Google stock, I’ve worked at Google, and I’m 29.
I wonder if other 50+ year old employees (but lesser profile) have reported experiencing the similar treatment alleged by Mr. Reid.
There’s been mutterings for years that if you’re over 35, don’t bother applying for a job at Google, they’ll take one look at the dates on your college transcripts (required as part of the application process) and ding you.
I have no idea if that’s true or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.
Applying to IT companies when you are mid 40’s or above is a real crapshoot. Age discrimination is rampant in IT.
It doesn’t matter what you put on your resume in terms of dates. Most people and their birthdates can be found on public services like zaba.
I think we need a law that requires all resumes to be anonymous and not reveal your real info until an offer is made. This would go a long way to help people avoid being eliminated based solely on age, gender or perceived ethnicity.
btw: You should never fill out an application until you have received an offer. Just refuse to do it. Why waste your time before you have a guaranteed offer?
I’m surprised Techcrunch just reported this. This was in the news a few days ago… Usually Techcrunch is more timely.
Yeah, the IT/software/Internet industry is one of the few industries where experience is looked *down* upon. You can’t say that for doctors or lawyers, or many other professions.
From what I had read into the case in recent news reports, Reid essentially had a personality conflict with his manager, and Google didn’t have the processes in place yet to resolve this conflict like a more mature company would and opened itself to the possibility of a lawsuit.
I don’t think Google has a systematic process of discriminating against older potential employees, but they are so focused on youth and hiring straight out of college graduates to feed their growth that it kind of turns off older workers to begin with to apply.
I remember bringing a friend of mine who was in her 40s to have lunch with a friend of mine at Google, and she commented, “Damn, I feel like a grandmother here.”
Wonder whether the same siutation exists in offices in Europe.
Bet not - its illegal to discriminate against employees on the basis of age.
But legal issues aside - age brings experience and stability that teamed with others who bring youthful ambition is a great combination.
I am 40, but have seen a lot and done a lot.
I can learn from people older and younger than me.
Now that is important as part of any workplace.
Web working (and programming in general) is for young people. I’m 30, and I guess that leaves me 5 more years in my career…
I’m shocked by the comment, “By his own admission he would leave work at 7pm.”
Assuming he started at 9am, that’s a ten hour day. I’d heard Google was a good place to work, but if they look down on their employees for only working ten hours a day, then… maybe not so good.
John (#5)
I’ve been aware of the case for quite some time, it just worked today in terms of posting as Google wrote about equality in the workplace.
Stropp
Googlers are well known workaholics, and as I mentioned to some one (possibly on a podcast) just after driving around the Googleplex in Mountain View that it was like visiting Mars. To us going home at a reasonable hour might sound normal (and in some countries, such as France its a legal requirement) but in Google-land it would make him stand out from the crowd in a big way.
Ah, slow, fuzzy and lethargic seems like his blood sugar was often low.
Hmmm… I kinda side with Googsy on this one. I’d say youth is integral to what they do, which is new technology. Very few people who haven’t grown up with computers understand the difference between an application and an operating system. Anyone who has put in time at tech support knows what it’s like dealing with older folks.
Sputnick, the problem with that is that computers were invented quite a few years ago. I’m 42 and have been a software developer for over 23 years, and I’ve worked with programmers much older than myself who I consider to be quite brilliant at what they do.
Just because someone is older doesn’t mean they are senile.
Speaking as someone who has been in sw and it for some time now this is not at all a surprise. This is a HUGE problem in the industry. And yes the expectation that people work 10+ hour days is a part of it. Blatant age discrimination is not even hidden.
I hope Larry and Sergey really enjoy their private jets!
Interesting.
I guess, you are taling about this Brian Reid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....ientist%29 (the age fits).
Brian is not just somebody happening to be over 50…
To wag (#13): “Blatant age discrimination” is even a key part of Marc Andreessen’s blog (http://blog.pmarca.com/).
NO!
http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com
Age? What about black people? Or anyone even remotely tan? Looking at the pic they posted all I see are is a crowd of pale faces.
I am 34.5 and starting all over (ROR, RIA, Flex) taking a pay cut and losing my title in order to stay current. I think up or out is great! All business should be more like sports, you either keep getting better and keep learning or you are out. In technology, if you’re in maintenance mode of your career then expect to get moved out.
Thats the problem with our society….most companies are still running via command and control so the benefits go to those who have been around the longest. This isn’t the army.
One thing I know is that computer-use is not limited to the young and hip.. I’ve got several grandparents who use the internet as well. I think Google needs to realize that while the majority of their audience is young, they have some older individuals using their services as well. If Reid really truly was not suitable for the projects he was assigned, instead of completely getting rid of him they should offer new alternatives or options. The fact that he was looked down upon for not being a workaholic is discrimination.. unless they specifically state that their workday is from 9am - 9pm (which would likely be against some labour laws), I don’t see a problem with him leaving at 7pm to satisfy his dietary needs. Corporations need to remember that employees are people too.
This is not true at all. Google hires lots of people over 35 - they’re some of the best employees since they have so much experience.
———————–
“There’s been mutterings for years that if you’re over 35, don’t bother applying for a job at Google, they’ll take one look at the dates on your college transcripts (required as part of the application process) and ding you.
I have no idea if that’s true or not, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was.”
sputnik must have been reid’s manager…
as for google’s reasoning for his dismissal: his project was finished.
LOLLERSKATES!!!
as if they don’t have anything else for him to work on at Google.
@sputnick
You’re an ageist idiot. The guy had a PhD and was a computer science prof at Stanford.
Pretty soon, Google will want to become its own nation, that’s how arrogant they are. You can join Google nation if you are under 30, comes from a top pedigree school, and top 1% of your class. But hell once you are over 30, you will be booted from Google nation unless of course you are Larry and Sergey.
You just can’t honk at old people
http://www.thesongoftheday.com/index.cgi?_d=050807
Hell No, I am a programmer and only 23 then why the hell should I care. I have a career to build.
http://vidsonly.blogspot.com
2 Reasons to hire youth.
(1) They are smart enough to do the work.
(2) They are dumb enough to do the work.
Dumb as in naive/unworldly/gullible/not-yet-wise. They have yet to realize (utilizing that amount of intelligence and drive) there are enumerable opportunities to make many times what they could at a Google.
Hey, where would Larry and Sergey be if they developed their search algorithm as developers for fill-in-the-blank.
Did Arrington send his resume to Cnet and say please hire me as a columnist. Nope, he started his own blog and now employees his own set of highly intelligent capable hardworking young chumps.
The fact that an older person has yet to figure any of this out is in itself indicative.
I can’t speak to this case, but my sister applied for a job in Finance at google 4 years ago. MBA from UCLA, plenty of experience, but alas she was 45. Her interview included many questions about “how do you feel about working with younger people.” “would it bother you to report to someone that was younger…”
google leaves themselves wide open for suits, and I am surprised they haven’t been sued on this more often.
There’s been mutterings for years that if you’re over 35, don’t bother applying for a job at Google, they’ll take one look at the dates on your college transcripts (required as part of the application process) and ding you.
Based on the over-30 yo people I know who made it through part of the interview process and then were not hired for some bizarre reason, it seems like Google has a real problem. And I’m talking about some of the best and brightest, people who other top companies would hire and have hired in a heartbeat.
I don’t think it’s intentional discrimination. Young people can’t relate as well to the old folks. The lack of a personal connection means that if you’re a young hiring manager, the young candidate is going to feel like a “better fit for the team” than the older candidate. It’s human nature. Of course, young mangers also need to have the guts not to be intimidated by hiring someone with a more accomplished background.
In any case, none of this would be a problem for Google if not for the fact that it’s done such a miserable job at building and marketing products outside of search. The win rate of Google products is pathetic. So you have to ask- why hasn’t the company done more to foster the acquisition of people with long, proven track records delivering product home runs? Especially when the stock price was much lower, there were undoubtedly a huge number of experienced people who would’ve gladly worked for a “young kid” given the chance to ride the stock up.
@sputnik
“Very few people who haven’t grown up with computers understand the difference between an application and an operating system. Anyone who has put in time at tech support knows what it’s like dealing with older folks.”
I find that hilarious. I might be “older folks” to you, but I grew up on TRS-80’s and then Commodore’s. You know, “back in the day” when you actually had to use a computer with your brain instead of just clicking around with a mouse, and I’m not even old. You might find it hard to believe, but there were computers around well before XP and OSX were released or before Linus could even spell his own name, let alone start writing a kernel.
Run, runner!
Sounds like Logan’s Run…
As Google continues, the average age of it’s employees will rise and suddenly they will change their tune on discriminating against older people. (Yes, it happens. Even at “Do No Evil” Google. Wake up. Really.)
@sputnik
Brian Reid wasn’t just some “old guy.” He co-created the alt. hierarchy on usenet. I think you’d better pay some proper respect to Dr. Reid. If it weren’t for him, where would you download your pr0n and warez from (before p2p became available)?
> [Google will] take one look at the dates on your college transcripts (required as part of the application process)
Transcripts aren’t required as part of the application process….
@Johnathan
“young mangers also need to have the guts not to be intimidated by hiring someone with a more accomplished background…none of this would be a problem for Google if not for the fact that it’s done such a miserable job at building and marketing products outside of search.”
Agree, and in this sense, ageism as a fear of being outshined by someone with more experience can accelerate the “A’s hire A’s, B’s hire C’s” dynamic.
This cuts both ways, however, and is why (as a 39-year-old coder) I don’t see an interview question like “how would you feel about reporting to someone who’s younger than you” as inappropriate. I’ve encountered a lot of people whose egos are wrapped up in titles and org charts, who throw a fit when a younger person supervises them. You start hearing about “lacks the experience to know…” and “he/she hasn’t been around long enough to understand this…”.
> Wonder whether the same siutation exists in offices in Europe.
> Bet not - its illegal to discriminate against employees on the basis of age.
Age discrimination is illegal in the US as well, which is why Reid is able to go to court.
This doesn’t surprise me. I had a friend interview there in 2001. Another friend of mine who worked there said the comments back on friend A were “she’s good, but she doesn’t have the Google look.” Friend B didn’t get the job.
oops, that should say friend A didn’t get the job. B was employed.
Some of the comments here are wonderfully laughable. If this weren’t such a serious matter.
I’ve come up through software in the SF Bay area for about 15 years, starting from being one of the younger crowd with a good set of skills but more importantly willing to pull all-nighters (wish they’d fed us back then). Now in my 40’s and now plenty senior in tech, I think back on guys who were that age in 1992 and could do the work of any 3 of us in only 40 hours per week, while being wise enough to know which code they were writing was core IP and could be patented.
Well, good that Google has the money to be inefficient with staffing. I guess we should not be surprised with Larry and Sergey on this one, but you’d think Eric would know better.
And I know plenty of very talented, hard-working 35+ age group who are bypassing Google for jobs due to their current reputation.
Oh, @sputnik as you are so clearly new to the tech industry and limited in your perspective, hopefully the comments on this blog will be a good learning experience for you.
Google twenty years down the road - old Googlers sitting on the front porch in their rocking chairs:
“I once coded a reverse-proxy SQUID engine in 10,000 lines of Python - overnight.”
“Hell, that was nothin’. I did the same in 4000 lines of Perl on the morning shift once. Took me 3 hours.”
“You’re both balmy. I wrote a reverse-proxy SQUID _generator_ in Prolog on my Blackberry in stall 19 while takin’ a crap. Try and top that!
“BTW WTF is the food? Is it just me or is the cafeteria gettin’ slower about deliveries these days? And whatever happened to the banana muffins? All they give me now is bran.”
That’s weird. I’ve been contacted by internal recruiters from both Google and YouTube/Google who recommended I apply for jobs there after finding my resume online. But it’s clear from my resume that I’m a “seasoned” employee, actually I’m 51. Makes me wonder what seems so attractive about my work.
Neither of these contacts has led to any more than an initial phone interview, but it looks like I wouldn’t fit in anyway. I don’t do that “working” 10 to 12 hours a day crap anymore, not if I’m being paid for 8.
It’s time that TC and assorted Valley fanboi culture stop acting like Google is anything but a ~$200B corporation, and therefore afflicted will all the expected ills - agism, political lobbying, tax sheltering, exploitation of its user’s money and privacy and so on. Just because they _claim_ ‘Do no evil’ hardly makes them such. Others claim ‘compassionate conservatism’ and few are fooled by that oxymoron.
Time to take your collective heads out of your conceptual asses. This isn’t surprising to anybody but those who have a crush on Google as if it was the popular kid. Take off your ‘I _heart_ GOOG’ badge - you’re being pathetic.
When I saw the title to this article I thought, how would Google extend fairness to senior citizens? Old people, of course, applies to anyone over 35. Hire someone with 10 or more years of experience? Why the hell would you want to do that?
Silicon valley can be one messed up place. I don’t believe that Google has created a true meritocracy based on their discriminatory hiring practices.
> Wonder whether the same siutation exists in offices in Europe.
> Bet not - its illegal to discriminate against employees on the basis of age.
The US was a leader in outlawing age discrimination. its was only a short time ago that job ads in the UK specified age ranges for the positions.
The US outlawed age discrimination in 1967, while the UK only did it in 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....oyment_Act
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.....tions_2006
I do think Google had a problem with my age. I was referred by a principal engineer and passed through the whole interview process successfully for a software engineering position. I am 35 and hold a PhD in computer science from a top tier university. However, the hiring committe that makes the final decision decided not to go ahead and not hire me. The human resources person in charge of my case never gave me a reason for the decision, but it was clear that there was some odd factor involved, like having my Bachelor degree from an average university (as opposed to my PhD) or most possible my age. At the end it all was a waste of six months of interviews and bullshit and I felt ripped off and used by the google corporation.
“That’s weird. I’ve been contacted by internal recruiters from both Google and YouTube/Google who recommended I apply for jobs there after finding my resume online. But it’s clear from my resume that I’m a “seasoned” employee, actually I’m 51. Makes me wonder what seems so attractive about my work.”
Your case is quite normal. Many of the recruiters at google spend a lot of time inviting people with online profiles to apply for jobs. But they don’t really look into detail into the profiles. At least in my interviews it was obvious that none of the interviewers had spent any time looking at my resume before the interview. They problably realized about your age later in the process and that’s why they stopped contacting you.
I’m 36, have been contacted by Google to apply. Wasn’t sure about it then (6 months ago), am less interested now
Sputnik: thankfully we CAN discriminate based on intelligence in the US. Or the lack of it, as in: yours.
C.
“At least in my interviews it was obvious that none of the interviewers had spent any time looking at my resume before the interview.”
You’re probably right, though my resume clearly states I got my degree in 1981. I don’t know how many recruiter conversations I’ve had that start with “I found your resume online, now tell me what your skills are and where you’ve worked.” Hello!
Anyway, I don’t have a PhD, but I’ve done and still do some pretty cool things so maybe that’s what they’re keying on. The weird thing is, I get giddy as a school girl at the thought of Google contacting me, but when I think about it, it’s just another big corporation while what I really want is my own gig.
And none of the people who have interviewed me has struck me as being anything out of the ordinary, none of the work I’ve interviewed for has been particularly amazing, aside from the possibility of affecting billions of people at once. But once you get past that,…
I started when I was 33. I was old.
There was a joke post survey on one of the internal mailing lists about being a “graygler” — other than paying for someone else’s wedding, I think I satisfied every criteria.
I don’t think there’s any question that there is age discrimination. I saw a former (older) employee of mine (who served on the C++ standards committee, was the principal engineer at a moderately-famous startup and for whom I could give a glowing reference, ran a country’s top-level DNS) get rejected by the interview process.
I have two kids. The months in Mountain View were very heavy going — the hotel we were staying in only had two rooms, so where to put the baby? I don’t think I had a night with less than 4 wake-ups in the whole time I was there, and that was only after the children got over the jet-lag.
During interviews I made very sure that I would not have to do any 24-hour on-call shifts — with young children this is a major issue. When I started at the job this — and numerous other details — went by the way-side. Negotiation on the matter was impossible, and transfer to another role was forbidden.
In the end, it all fall apart badly.
Having said all this, I do miss working at Google.
Here’s one data point.
Google recently started a new project on a certain very specialized technology. I have spent oer 25 years working as a key person on that technology. I have world-class credentials, and have been a principal at two companies that have sold hundreds of millions of dollars of software. I am 57 years old. I submitted my resume for this new project at Google.
Results? Google never even acknowledged receipt of my resume, not even a “form letter”. After a week, I located the person responsible for hiring, to at least make sure they had received it. Yes, they got it. They never bothered to talk to me though.
Somehow I don’t think the results would have been the same if I was 20 years younger.
Total bullshit.
Ahh yes. The smell of freshly milked Google bashing drama.
So let’s assume this is true. Let’s assume that Google has a fetish for fresh Stanford grads and ignores anybody over 35. This ultimately leads to Google crippling itself in the competition for talent.
There are a lot of different types of tech people out there. There are kids who think they know everything (some of them actually come close, but most are just following the latest fad. ROR anyone?). There are bland, gray cubicle monkeys who’ve given up fighting the insanity that is corporate IT and just punch in and out at 9 and 5. There are crusty old hackers with beards down to their waists. There are people who started life as musicians or artists or actors and entered IT in their 40s.
Each of these groups has superstars. Even the burnt out cubicle clock-puncher still has some of that fire deep down somewhere.
Go and find some. Start your own company. Stop whining that Google is shooting themselves in the foot and take advantage of it instead.
Yes, it always seems that the Googlers love to pat themselves on the back and share their tales of an egalitarian culture where each person is valued for their uniqueness and individuality, and the projects are all fun to work on, and nobody is mean, and if you don’t like your project you can just switch to a different team, and everybody recycles, and they make you healthy vegan meals in the cafeteria, and they above all do no evil, and –
…damn, I just puked on keyboard.
It sounds like a lot of people live on ‘planet pollyanna’ cuz discrimination is par for the course at every company and has been going on for decades.
It’s just that now more of the victims tend to be older white males are we seeing increased media coverage. Corporations have always, and continue to, discriminate against minorities, women, the handicapped, having tattoos, being odiferous…you name it. Bottomlime, people hire those who they think will be a ‘good fit’ and wont drive them nuts day in day out.
Nothing new here folks.
so how old is reid ?
If you’re smart enough to work for Google you’re smart enough to start your own business and make far more money. You have to conclude that these people are just working in cubicles 14 hours a day short term to fatten their resume.
In spite of their vast hordes of coders Google hasn’t really done much beyond slapping ads onto their search engine and changing their logo for the last eight years. They sure talk about doing a lot though. (Free wifi, space elevators, vapor-phones). Two guys had a good idea and now they have so much money that they can remain profitable in spite of inefficiency.
I went to a crappy state school but some investors found my blog and now I’m about to launch an idea. I have a funny feeling Google wouldn’t have given me the time of day. Our head guy just met with Google and basically said they’re arrogant and out of touch.
Maybe now you can get back to your HAM radio, you old coot.
CQ. CQ. CQuillyourself.
Jason, you think business should be more like sports?
Well, I hope you don’t get moved out when you still got 10 years left on that 475k mortgage.
There was a time when working at a good company meant security. Now, thanks to people that think like Jason, it means that you can expect to be pushed out in 5 years.
If you owe $475k on a mortgage you’re either wealthy and bought a while ago or you bought recently and are about to suffer dearly until you realize it’s smarter to mail in the keys.
Mortgages are incompatible with the current economy. Maybe we’re confusing age discrimination with mortgage discrimination. Who wants to hire someone who feels entitled to a huge salary to pay for their overpriced home? Or someone who can’t sleep because of a looming interest rate reset?
So….
everytime a young and bright collegue gets married, I celebrate.
everytime they have children, I am overjoyed.
with vengence, I watch them struggle, trying to meet commitents, juggle responsibilities and yearn to get out of the hell they have created for themselves.
:-p
sputnik,
I can’t wait until you’re over 35 and find yourself on the other side of that table trying to get hired.
I work at Apple (another company known to be a desired place to work at in high tech). Quite frankly I would never work at Google. I do my job in 40 hours, once in awhile pull some 12-14 days when needed, but I have my life. Google’s so-called “culture” sounds more like a cult to me, and I’m saying this coming from a company that gets accused of being a cult. Truth be told, working at Apple is not that different than working for Microsoft. Instead of Office and Windows it’s iMacs and iPhones. In fact, I find that while people here are passionate about their work, there aren’t many “fanboys” in the sense of the Kool Aid drinking types here (in fact I’ve been told that in the hiring process, being a “fanboy” is a detriment, not an advantage). If I want culture I’ll go to a museum, I work to live, not live to work. Anyone who does the latter is a fool.
a little off topic but wanted to share 2 stories about recruiters in general with some of the people who mentioned the google recruiters calling them. in fact recruiters never read the resumes posted online, if you find one that does they deserve for you to pay them. here are 2 stories which happened (one to me one to a close friend)
this past summer right after i graduated i got a phone call from a recruiter as i was driving back from an interview with gdeb. the recruiter was exstatic about this great opportunity without having to move from home, working on a new transport hub in nyc, thinking back i only knew of one company doing the design of that location, the one i was currently working for at the time and that was clearly labeled on my resume, the first damn line of it. all in all i replied to him, so you are offering me a job for the company i already work for, at which point he hung up without saying anything else.
my friend had a similar situation after working for a year at keyspan a recruiter called her up offering a great opportunity to work for keyspan, she said sure sounds great, can you set me up for an interview i cn be there in 5 minutes it is just a few floors down on the elevator to HR.
regarding this google issue, i agree with reid for what he did. i think a better approach from his side would have been to work something out regarding the time put in and everyone asking why he left at 7, they probably could have worked out a solution if they needed him to put in extra hours. but all in all i agree that there should always be a mix, the youth of today might not know everything but don’t underestimate our abilities while at the same time, there is no substitution for experience because unless you come up with something so new that no one has ever worked with it (new type of chip, new programming language, etc.) then the “old geezers” as some might like to call them, know that same chip process or programming language.
sincerely the young mechanical engineer
apple employee, wanted to mention, that some of us work-a-holics like me now are actually just doing this to advance our careers especially the younger crowd, since we don’t have kids or wives to really worry about yet it is a great opportunity to gain much needed experience to compete in this job market. do all of us want this for the rest of our lives, of course not, but as some people say it is paying your dues like those before us. remember doctors, lawyers, engineers also have crazy hours the first few years while the try to break into the heart of the business they are in
Fuck google. Google is a corporation that uses people to make profits. So what if they give you a free dinner, desert & midnight snack, is the loss of time worth it? why don’t you make your own company?
I’d like to share google’s corporate national anthem, we have to recite this at the googleplex everyday during homeroom:
See no evil, do no evil
Google is the place for me
sergie and larry, the workplace is harried
pretty soon you’ll be working for free!
in yahoo there are many techies above 50s and 60s. my team has one person of 60+ and we report to an early 30s manager. there has never been any clash.
we go out to lunch together .. infact i never even feel out of place .im 23.
i think all these issues are personality specific, and cannot be generalised to a company as such.
If you are a great hacker, come work with Yahoo!
Whilst there may well be a problem with age discrimination in Google, I find that hard to believe considering the old-time hackers that they’ve courted and hired…
for example:
Rob Pike , Unix hacker born 1956
Works for Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Pike
Guido Van Rossum, creator of Python
Got his Masters Degree in 1982
Works for Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_van_Rossum
Andrew Morton, Linux kernel hacker
Born 1959
Works for Google
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A.....grammer%29
You can find the biographies of a few more via this wiki page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C....._employees
Google was hiring developers in New York, and I have the chops. But after asking around I heard those freaks work until 10pm every day. Uh, yeah, I prefer having a life and I make quite a nice living without being Google’s bitch. Guess my attitude wouldn’t fit in.
Hmmm, I’m only 39 but I just grew a beard and it is grey at the chin. A week later I got a dream programming job that I didn’t apply for, they called me. During our lunch introductory meeting, my new boss said of someone else’s mustache that grey meant wisdom.
So I guess Google doesn’t support or understand:
- working remotely
- on-call paging (especially for OPS folks)
- flex time - Google is International… there is no such thing “core business hours” anymore. if he goes back online a 10/12 at night does he still get dinged?
- resource utilization (8 hours of work in 8 or less and not in 10)
- work smarter not harder - overlap from last bullet but you get the theme
hmmmm… innovation & genius hard at work there
btw, wouldn’t you want someone with more years of experience handling operations - think context of position is different than a programmer?
“Despite all my rage I am still just a rat in a cage”
Like many tech companies, Google hires the young by selling them an illusion. The illusion is that working these 14 hour days gets you ahead. The truth is that this effectively reduces your compensation to 50% of what you were hired for, and guarantees you nothing. Youthful enthusiam choses to ignore this, and for the hiring company, its fantastic.
Older workers have seen through this illiusion. It is not that they are less intelligent or less motivated, just they are less inclined to be manipulated. It only takes one or two layoffs to figure out the game, and how disposable all of us are. This is the wisdom garnered from experience.
The irony in all this is that we “older” workers were the young “rising stars” in our industry at one time that pulled these long hours. The new group of “rising stars” fails to realize that we are their future.
I wonder if Google is beginning to regret trumpeting about their workplace environment?
Judging by all the heat here I think it might have backfired.
This is all good news for companies that compete for staff against Google.
If they read this they should be going after the 35+ candidates.
A company that rejects based on age is not that smart.
As for TechCrunch - good stuff - great stuff.
We like reading about tech companies, but getting confirmation of the crap that goes on inside them is even more valuable.
Oh, one other thing….
It’s a sunny day outside - really beautiful and a Sunday and I’m posting this from work.
But, I own half the company.
It’s a small gig, but it’s my gig.
Can’t beat that.
Notice some of the “young dude” voices in this thread that can’t spell? High schoolers dropping in to fake big time? Don’t get too cranked, here…