Comments on: Does Chess Need to be Crowdsourced? http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/ Startup and Technology News Thu, 24 Jul 2008 08:31:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Resell Rights http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-2321178 Resell Rights Fri, 23 May 2008 09:18:24 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-2321178 <strong>Resell Rights...</strong> A note on Google Checkout: someone commented on TechCrunch from Big Database , who said that Checkout uses the Chase Paymentech Gateway and merchant services for processing their payments. They\'ve negotiated a bulk interchange rate and \"were real... Resell Rights…

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]]> By: Stan Oleynick http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1710481 Stan Oleynick Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:27:46 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1710481 Rajiv, There's a first time for everything... ;) Rajiv,

There’s a first time for everything… ;)

]]> By: Rajiv Bakulesh Shah http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1703091 Rajiv Bakulesh Shah Fri, 26 Oct 2007 22:47:41 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1703091 No one ever built a statue to a committee. No one ever built a statue to a committee.

]]> By: Naveen http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1662582 Naveen Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:56:33 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1662582 Hey, I dont like this concept of group chess. Im an ardent lover of chess and love to play with a single. Thanks to Yahoo Chess for letting me to play with people around the world :) Anyhow CrowdChess/TeamChess may have its own likers. Naveen. Hey,

I dont like this concept of group chess. Im an ardent lover of chess and love to play with a single. Thanks to Yahoo Chess for letting me to play with people around the world :)

Anyhow CrowdChess/TeamChess may have its own likers.

Naveen.

]]> By: Philippe Chrun http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661839 Philippe Chrun Sat, 06 Oct 2007 18:55:50 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661839 Gold concept. It'd be funny to play your friends online, then crowdsource your moves without your buddy knowing, haha. And of course, I would love to see the crowd vs. the grandmaster vs. deep blue. But I think the *general* crowd would lose because it's an aggregate of average players with average moves. Gold concept. It’d be funny to play your friends online, then crowdsource your moves without your buddy knowing, haha. And of course, I would love to see the crowd vs. the grandmaster vs. deep blue. But I think the *general* crowd would lose because it’s an aggregate of average players with average moves.

]]> By: David http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661037 David Sat, 06 Oct 2007 06:25:53 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661037 Hey thanks for sharing that chess site. I think that it looks like to many online chess plattforms, but the difference is the suggested moves given by the spectators, which make that you can learn very much gaming. Thank you Hey thanks for sharing that chess site. I think that it looks like to many online chess plattforms, but the difference is the suggested moves given by the spectators, which make that you can learn very much gaming.

Thank you

]]> By: Alex Linhares http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661010 Alex Linhares Sat, 06 Oct 2007 05:56:28 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1661010 As a cognitive psychologist, I think this could be a great source of info for research on crowdsourcing. I´ve published papers on the journals "Minds and Machines" and "Cognitive Science" concerning chess skill, and I really hope this things gets traffic so that the quality of play can be analyzed. While random people will never immediately see the best lines, like advanced players do, they would, be able to quickly discard bad options (because it only takes ONE person with a cogent reason to show it´s bad). And I think this should be FUN! Imagine games between xxx@Mit.edu versus xxx@Harvard.edu, or between minor, local schools. If I were running this site, that´s who I´d be promoting it to, universities and highs schools competing in the same region. They should get engaged--if only for the fun of competing. This is not at all a bad post. Some people seem to be thinking that if you´re not talking about the next google or giving them billion dollar advice, then it´s useless. I hope techcrunch never succumbs to such superficial thinking. As a cognitive psychologist, I think this could be a great source of info for research on crowdsourcing. I´ve published papers on the journals “Minds and Machines” and “Cognitive Science” concerning chess skill, and I really hope this things gets traffic so that the quality of play can be analyzed. While random people will never immediately see the best lines, like advanced players do, they would, be able to quickly discard bad options (because it only takes ONE person with a cogent reason to show it´s bad).

And I think this should be FUN! Imagine games between xxx@Mit.edu versus xxx@Harvard.edu, or between minor, local schools. If I were running this site, that´s who I´d be promoting it to, universities and highs schools competing in the same region. They should get engaged–if only for the fun of competing.

This is not at all a bad post. Some people seem to be thinking that if you´re not talking about the next google or giving them billion dollar advice, then it´s useless. I hope techcrunch never succumbs to such superficial thinking.

]]> By: Khalid http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660662 Khalid Sat, 06 Oct 2007 00:13:12 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660662 Hello guys , its a great idea to sustain the best moves good luck;) Hello guys , its a great idea to sustain the best moves

good luck;)

]]> By: Arthur http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660434 Arthur Fri, 05 Oct 2007 21:18:49 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660434 Funny, we've absolutely considered playing Cellufun chess that way, where each person votes on their phone Funny, we’ve absolutely considered playing Cellufun chess that way, where each person votes on their phone

]]> By: John http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660106 John Fri, 05 Oct 2007 16:30:57 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660106 cool idea cool idea

]]> By: Shambhu http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660038 Shambhu Fri, 05 Oct 2007 15:26:09 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1660038 Team chess is boring, but it would have been cool if the concept was built like the NYC Central Park scene in some way. People could socialize around the game, but the two players would be left alone. Team chess is boring, but it would have been cool if the concept was built like the NYC Central Park scene in some way. People could socialize around the game, but the two players would be left alone.

]]> By: dvanosdol http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659947 dvanosdol Fri, 05 Oct 2007 14:16:47 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659947 this is a cool concept. lighten up, people. this is a cool concept. lighten up, people.

]]> By: marco http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659704 marco Fri, 05 Oct 2007 08:54:12 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659704 show it on www.dotthelife.com show it on http://www.dotthelife.com

]]> By: ChessNerd http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659653 ChessNerd Fri, 05 Oct 2007 08:00:50 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659653 Been done so many times before. Crowdsourcing chess makes NO sense. Site is terribly designed. Chessboard is incorrectly done. Verdict = LAME Been done so many times before. Crowdsourcing chess makes NO sense.

Site is terribly designed.

Chessboard is incorrectly done.

Verdict = LAME

]]> By: Nasko http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659625 Nasko Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:29:38 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659625 @Stan (#37): The term 'Team chess' as used on the Free Internet Chess Server that I was referring to has nothing to do with what is described in the article linked to by you. On FICS there are two channels (for white and black) and everyone interested in a team game can join either one. When there are sufficient players (per judgment by the majority of the players) the game starts. Note that each team may consist by any number of players - I've taken part in a team game where each team had more that 50 players. Each team's discussion goes in a dedicated channel and although technically any user could be in both channels (e.g. for the observers' convenience) moderators are watching out for people taking part of discussions and still being in both channels thus abusing the system. You'd agree that this functionality would be similar to CrowdChess even though the term 'Team chess' may not have been used properly for that context. @Stan (#37):
The term ‘Team chess’ as used on the Free Internet Chess Server that I was referring to has nothing to do with what is described in the article linked to by you. On FICS there are two channels (for white and black) and everyone interested in a team game can join either one. When there are sufficient players (per judgment by the majority of the players) the game starts. Note that each team may consist by any number of players - I’ve taken part in a team game where each team had more that 50 players. Each team’s discussion goes in a dedicated channel and although technically any user could be in both channels (e.g. for the observers’ convenience) moderators are watching out for people taking part of discussions and still being in both channels thus abusing the system.
You’d agree that this functionality would be similar to CrowdChess even though the term ‘Team chess’ may not have been used properly for that context.

]]> By: Stan Oleynick http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659607 Stan Oleynick Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:13:43 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659607 @ Nasko (#35) Team Chess is entirely different from what CrowdChess is, see for yourself: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/danheisman/Events_Books/Team_Chess.htm @ Nasko (#35)

Team Chess is entirely different from what CrowdChess is, see for yourself: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/....._Chess.htm

]]> By: Stan Oleynick http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659592 Stan Oleynick Fri, 05 Oct 2007 07:05:10 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659592 @ David (#34) Of course they can. When you propose a move in the play room one of the things you are required to do is to write the explanation for your reasoning and why you think your move is the best, once you do, others can comment on your move and have a great discussion with you about your move via comments or chat, if they like it they can then vote for it, if not, they can either vote for another move or propose one themselves, but it's up to you to explain your move in detail so that others will see the logic behind it. @ MarcT (# 32) The game is run on a sophisticated chess engine so yes, the moves are regulated and you cannot just make any move you want. It has to be a legal chess move and if somebody tries to make an illegal move, the system will tell you that you are proposing an illegal move and will not let you make it. Hope that answers your questions! Stan @ David (#34)

Of course they can. When you propose a move in the play room one of the things you are required to do is to write the explanation for your reasoning and why you think your move is the best, once you do, others can comment on your move and have a great discussion with you about your move via comments or chat, if they like it they can then vote for it, if not, they can either vote for another move or propose one themselves, but it’s up to you to explain your move in detail so that others will see the logic behind it.

@ MarcT (# 32)

The game is run on a sophisticated chess engine so yes, the moves are regulated and you cannot just make any move you want. It has to be a legal chess move and if somebody tries to make an illegal move, the system will tell you that you are proposing an illegal move and will not let you make it.

Hope that answers your questions!

Stan

]]> By: Nasko http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659582 Nasko Fri, 05 Oct 2007 06:51:47 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659582 The concept isn't new at all. 'Team chess' is one of the alternative chess games available on specialized chess servers and it has been around for ages. I can imagine you, people are assessing this more from the business perspective, but believe me, active (although amateur chess players) are familiar with the concept from chess servers like ICC (The internet chess club) or FICS (Free Internet Chess Server) - www.freechess.org. @Jean (#24): Typical team players are not grand masters at all, so the crowd doesn't 'think' several moves ahead. Neither are best moves suggested by the team strongest player. What usually happens is someone suggests a line, but not being a GM they'd probably miss a move and then someone else from the team would point that out, so another line would be suggested. I've taken part in lots of team games (on FICS) and it is fun - really! As part of the team I've played stronger chess as compared to my individual accomplishments. Plus, I get to actually see the reasoning behind one line or another. This is not the case when you get beaten by a stronger player on the regular basis, so it's usually easier to improve your play in team games. I still have to admit that not much of the players are interested in these kind of games though - out of between 600 and 3000 players at any given moment (speaking of FICS) there are no more than 10-30 players interested in team chess. You can tell that because these games are organized in special channels and you could see the number of people in those channels. The concept isn’t new at all. ‘Team chess’ is one of the alternative chess games available on specialized chess servers and it has been around for ages. I can imagine you, people are assessing this more from the business perspective, but believe me, active (although amateur chess players) are familiar with the concept from chess servers like ICC (The internet chess club) or FICS (Free Internet Chess Server) - http://www.freechess.org.

@Jean (#24): Typical team players are not grand masters at all, so the crowd doesn’t ‘think’ several moves ahead. Neither are best moves suggested by the team strongest player. What usually happens is someone suggests a line, but not being a GM they’d probably miss a move and then someone else from the team would point that out, so another line would be suggested.

I’ve taken part in lots of team games (on FICS) and it is fun - really! As part of the team I’ve played stronger chess as compared to my individual accomplishments. Plus, I get to actually see the reasoning behind one line or another. This is not the case when you get beaten by a stronger player on the regular basis, so it’s usually easier to improve your play in team games.

I still have to admit that not much of the players are interested in these kind of games though - out of between 600 and 3000 players at any given moment (speaking of FICS) there are no more than 10-30 players interested in team chess. You can tell that because these games are organized in special channels and you could see the number of people in those channels.

]]> By: Michael Geary http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659566 Michael Geary Fri, 05 Oct 2007 06:36:23 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659566 Stan, thank you. My only regret is that my dad isn't here to see this. He was a chess maniac and would have LOVED it. He liked chess any way he could play it: one on one in a quiet room, his friend Sammy Reshevsky playing dozens of people at once, postcard chess, blindfold chess, you name it. It was all chess, and it was all good. Stan, thank you. My only regret is that my dad isn’t here to see this. He was a chess maniac and would have LOVED it. He liked chess any way he could play it: one on one in a quiet room, his friend Sammy Reshevsky playing dozens of people at once, postcard chess, blindfold chess, you name it. It was all chess, and it was all good.

]]> By: Mike http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659515 Mike Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:37:21 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659515 Being an avid chess player myself I think this is a great idea as it opens up a lot of new possibilities. This certainly makes the game a lot fun to play and I have to disagree with the fact that the reward seems to be lost if your move isn't chosen because you will have another chance fairly soon (I believe each team is given 1 hour to make a move) and it's not the end of the world. It's the same with Digg, people are still digging stories even though most of their submissions never make the front page... One thing I didn't like though is the fact that you can't play with your friends on the same team since the team selection process is random but I do agree with their reasoning (FAQ # 4). Being an avid chess player myself I think this is a great idea as it opens up a lot of new possibilities. This certainly makes the game a lot fun to play and I have to disagree with the fact that the reward seems to be lost if your move isn’t chosen because you will have another chance fairly soon (I believe each team is given 1 hour to make a move) and it’s not the end of the world.

It’s the same with Digg, people are still digging stories even though most of their submissions never make the front page…

One thing I didn’t like though is the fact that you can’t play with your friends on the same team since the team selection process is random but I do agree with their reasoning (FAQ # 4).

]]> By: MarcT http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659485 MarcT Fri, 05 Oct 2007 05:00:48 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659485 are the moves regulated? what if 51% of people think I can take the queen with my pawn for the first move, is it game over automatically? why dun we try that? I guess it is not regulated. such as the misplace :) if it is, it won't let you start in the beginning. are the moves regulated?
what if 51% of people think I can take the queen with my pawn for the first move, is it game over automatically?

why dun we try that? I guess it is not regulated. such as the misplace :)
if it is, it won’t let you start in the beginning.

]]> By: David Mackey http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659443 David Mackey Fri, 05 Oct 2007 04:24:58 +0000 http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/10/04/does-chess-need-to-be-crowdsourced/#comment-1659443 Its an okay idea conceptually. The question is whether individuals who aren't skilled (such as myself) can recognize the wisdom of the moves suggested by the more skilled, or whether they will write them off as foolishness. Its an okay idea conceptually. The question is whether individuals who aren’t skilled (such as myself) can recognize the wisdom of the moves suggested by the more skilled, or whether they will write them off as foolishness.

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