October 2, 2007

Are You Going To The Zune Social? Me Neither.

Erick Schonfeld

110 comments »

picture-177.pngPoor J Allard. The one cool guy at Microsoft—he’s the one who brought us the original Xbox—is trying so hard with the Zune. But he’s no match for Steve Jobs.

Redmond’s answer to the iPod has been a relative flop so far. The 1.2 million Zunes sold since it launched a year ago amounts to less than three percent of the number of iPods sold during the same time (which is more than 40 million), and only about one percent of the 110 million iPods sold since 2001. So Allard is trying again with a revamped Zune that looks even more like the iPod, and comes in new flash-memory versions. That’s so nano of him. But what, no Zune phone? No sexy iTouch? Allard is still trying to catch up to where Apple was a year ago.

At least he is getting rid of the Zune brown (a color only a UPS delivery man could love). The wireless syncing with your computer sounds nice. And the Zune music store will soon offer one million DRM-free songs—yay! But if you share them with someone else the other person can still only play them three times. That’s Microsoft for you. They put the DRM in “DRM-free” music.

And to try to make the kids care about a second-class device that, well, no one cares about, Allard had his biggest brainstorm yet. The Zune, you see, is not just another MP3 player. It’s a social network! That’s where this whole Zune Social thing comes in. I just hope that this is not Microsoft’s answer to Facebook in case the investment deal doesn’t go through.

Zune Social is a social network for the one percent of the digital music player-owning population that have a Zune or will ever have a Zune so that they can share their playlists and samples of the songs on their Zunes. Hmm. Well, gee, I can already share the playlists of the songs on my iPod with services like Last.fm and Anywhere.fm. Or I can create my own playlists on imeem, where anyone else in the world can go to listen to every song on my playlist in its entirety for free, with the blessings of the music labels to boot. Even Apple is getting into the social music scene with My iTunes widgets that show off the songs you’ve bought. With so many other, more popular options out there in both hardware and online music services, who is going to bother to go to the Zune Social—other than Bill Gates and J Allard?

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  1. Techticles

    Zune has less than 3 percent of the numbers of iPod? Didn’t you say Zune was just a year ago? That is by far excellent numbers.

    Apples’ iMAC has less than 6 percent and they have been trying for 3 decades already, going to their fourth decade in a few years time.

    Considering that the first Zune is so crappy and still get almost 3 percent is a very good indicator.

  2. techguy

    Plus, zune is a pretty cool name.

  3. Plungen

    why the negative review already, what zune has isn’t going against the ipod touch but rather focusing on the ipod nano aka fatty and the ipod classic and when compared to both i think the new zunes are a far better deal

  4. 100rabh

    They put the DRM in “DRM-free” music.

    Well these guys actually meant that DRM is “free” with the songs ;-)

  5. Tom B

    This has got to be the worst post I have ever read on TechCrunch.
    Congrats to Erick Schonfeld, fanboy at large.

  6. Jamie T

    You sir, are an idiot. Everyone knows iPod is outselling Zune by miles - no-one denies it. Does that mean they shouldn’t innovate with the Zune?

    Oh and I liked the brown Zune. And I will go to the Zune Social, just like many of the other 1m plus Zune owners will. You seem to think that because you don’t like it nobody else will.

    Ask yourself if you would be so critical if it weren’t a Microsoft product. I would expect that as a journalist you would be impartial but clearly you are not. I fully admit I am a Microsoft fan but I still have the ability to take a step back and take a holistic view - unlike yourself.

    Apple have a widget showing off tunes I have bought? Wow! Zune will have a widget/gadget/whatever saying what I have actually listened to and what I am listening to NOW. Much as you won’t like to admit it no-one else is doing that and thus it is innovative.

    I would unsubscribe if it didn’t mean that I would miss out on what your far more respectable colleagues have to say. Your outpourings since you started on this site have been dull and banal - and this tops it off.

    -Jamie

  7. Matt

    As long as they fail to support Audible files, I will never give them a chance. I wouldn’t mind trying something other than an iPod, but without being able to play my audiobooks from Audible, not a chance.

  8. Nick

    arstechnica implied that there would be no drm when you shared songs (they said you could share podcasts, playlists and songs with no more time limit)

    It sounds kinda nice to me (as long as it works well and there aren’t any secret things that screw it up)

    I mean, it has a lot of the features of the ipod touch (although admittedly not even close to as nice) but with 80 gigs, plus doesn’t it still have a subscription service?

    I wish I could dl songs from the subscription service and podcasts straight to the device (although wireless syncing is better than nothing).

    Plus microsoft is updating the old zune’s firmware with all of these functions.
    So if you did bought one, you won’t feel burnt.

  9. elvirs

    there are so many mp3 players trying to mimic ipod and so many facebook wannabe social networks and no one ever criticizes them, its okay to try to catch up, but when it comes to microsoft they are burned to hell, whats the problem? why is it cool to bitch about microsoft?
    why dont you write about any other mp3 player but zune?

  10. James

    I’m amazed that I’m reading this on Techcrunch and not on some Apple website. Take a look at the comments on Engadget, Gizmodo or even Digg. Take a look at http://www.digg.com/microsoft/....._Customers

    I’m very disappointed with this ‘review’ - when you havent even seen the product and basing your comments on what you think one line a press release means.

  11. Darren Stuart

    They should of given them away with xbox 360’s and then they would have nabbed a good slice of the market. If they hooked them into the xbox live network friends etc it would have been a winner.

  12. Techticles

    Sorry Erick, but this has definitely been a disgusting article. I expected more from you…

  13. Nik Gomez

    Wow, Techcrunch usually has such great articles. I don’t have a problem with articles that I disagree with, opinions are what blogs are for, but poorly written or formulated arguments are sad.

    It’s too bad that this article was published. It’s horrible.

  14. Techticles

    Jason — Zune Erick? 3.5 Inch floppy disks — that was a good laugh.

    Erick — Do you have any patent numbers which makes iPod Nano the owner of flash on music players?

  15. Jon

    Interestingly enough - one of the MAIN points in the launch is not even mentioned. Microsoft’s biggest move (which also happens to set it apart from Apple) is that the software updates that the new generation have will be sent out across the already available products - the first generation. Apple has never supported its previous generations in this way. Frankly, I’m also a bit pissed off with Apple over its moves with the Iphone, and thats enough to guarantee that I will NEVER buy a device from them. The new zunes on the other hand are very tempting, so maybe I’ll treat myself come Christmas…

  16. Ali

    Wow, that was snide.

    Actually, the new range looks very good. And a 3% share, up against Apple, isn’t such a bad start.

    Personally, I think the Zune 2 looks pretty solid - a good range, and great new features. My only problem with Zune is that I can’t copy to it all the music I’ve purcahsed previously with Napster/MSN (but then, that’s the same with Apple and the iPod).

    My only other wish would be that somebody else handles writing about Zune in future. As much as I enjoy this site, it’s Arrington that can still write the most informative and honest articles exploring angles rather than just one personal point of view. Shame.

  17. Andrew Green

    That promo graphic you’ve shown there actually uses the word “podcasts” — have Microsoft given up on *that* particular battle?

  18. Jon

    Agreed. This is the worst article I’ve read on techcrunch. I own a Dell and a PowerMac G5. An 80g iPod Video and a 1st Gen Zune. I’m no fanboy of either - which is why I feel justified in calling Erik out on his prejudice.

  19. alexanderpink

    Those sold numbers are actually pretty respectable. I don’t see YOU running a company that sold 1.2 million mp3 players last year. Techcrunch writers really suck…you would think one of the most popular startup/tech blogs could afford to hire good writers…

  20. Reg

    It was a good week to announce, with anger at Apple having reached fever pitch over their pig-headed handling of the iPhone (aka “best iPod we’ve ever made”) update. Or brickdate as i like to call it.

    In fact, I was a fairly loyal Apple fanboy, but I’ve been so p1ssed off by its attitude to destroying the 3rd party app scene, that I’m pretty much ready to recommend any friend or relative takes a look at a Zune…

    So, J Allard, all you have to do to get back into the position of grinding Apple under your heel (the natural stance of a Microsoft person) is this:

    Zune Touch, phone edition
    unlocked
    open to 3rd party apps

    Done! Steve Jobs will be a footnote in computing history, again.

  21. Ed

    I generally love TechCrunch and its informative, unbiased articles, but I have to say that this is one of the most biased, uninformed articles I have ever read on a tech site, let alone TechCrunch. It might not be so bad if the article actually mentioned all of the relevant points of the recent Zune 2 announcement, but this article hardly even covers some of the better points (like all of the new features being available for the old Zunes). I’ll keep reading TechCrunch as always, but whenever I see the name Erick Schonfeld, I’ll have to take what he says with a grain of salt, which is a shame on a site of this caliber. Such biased postings as these are fine for a personal blog, but they have no place here. With any luck, Michael Arrington will be doing future coverage of Zune news. I can always respect his writings and opinions.

  22. Vinod

    Dear Erick bro: The world is not so MS-Black and Apple-White.

  23. Henk

    Pretty sad day to read such an article from TechCrunch :( Not that I’m a serious M$ fanboy, but this was just disgusting.

    Oh, and you failed to mention the fact, that zune ver1 users can get all the new features as a free software update. What’s Apple doing in that area?

  24. Akshay

    Quote:
    And the Zune music store will soon offer one million DRM-free songs—yay! But if you share them with someone else the other person can still only play them three times. That’s Microsoft for you. They put the DRM in “DRM-free” music.

    That has got to be the most retarded thing I’ve ever heard from a so-called tech-journalist/blogger.

    Let’s say I bought Rihanna’s latest number as a DRM-free MP3 from Amazon and put it on my Zune 2. Then I send it to a couple of friends, who send it to a couple of friends, and so on. If it doesn’t have the 3-plays DRM limit on it, that’s effectively piracy — I purchased the song once, and distributed it to countless people. You must be out of your mind to expect the music industry to allow MS to remove DRM protection from that feature.

  25. Are you going to continue reading Erick's TechCrunch articles? Me neither.

    Simply put, this blog post was terrible. I gleaned more information from Engadget’s posts while being able to form my own opinions. With this post, I had to wade through Erick’s personal opinions, many of which I do not share, only to find sparse information on the new Zune itself.

  26. Anmol

    Looking at the poor response to your article, and going with your logic that one should stop after (your article is failure unlike zune which as of now ain’t a huge success) failure.
    Are you going to stop writing articles ?

    As far as i know with Amazon’ store and Zune central and Zune 2.0 vs Fatty iPod + bloated iTunes.

    I will chose Zune.

    Xbox 1 was not so goods and Xbox360 is doing much better than PS3, think about it retardo.

  27. Brandon

    What Microsoft doesn’t seem to realize (or I guess doesn’t want to be ruled by) is that they are fighting their own reputation. So many people don’t like Microsoft for so many different reasons (one of those, I think, is the fact that so many HAVE to use it). So when another cooler option comes along people are always going to take it.

    There will always be jokes about driving your mom’s station wagon, no matter how good it runs or cool it actually might be. Because it’s a station wagon, people want something else.

  28. brandon

    Actually, yeah.. I’ve been looking for a large screen, wireless syncing, 80gb and the ability to play mpeg4.. So I guess I’ll be going to the social.

  29. Edd Mills

    My god, how far is your head up Apple’s arse? You didn’t even try and give a balanced view. Why has the entire Internet turned into Apple land just lately? First Engadget, now Techcrunch. Eugh.

  30. Jamie T

    Mr Schonfeld,
    My response above (#6) was a kneejerk, heat-of-the-moment reaction. Saying “You sir, are an idiot” was a puerile thing to do and I apologise for it.

    I stand by everything else I said.

    -Jamie

  31. Hammer

    HAHAHAHA

    I didn’t know so many M$ employees read TC!

    Zune sucks guys, lets face it!

    1 millions sold is an overblown figure and that is after billions spent on marketing.

    I dare you guys to sell another million, not in a thousand years!

    Btw, the new sony mp3 player kicks zoon ass. go check it out.

  32. FrankyG

    Microsoft deserves what they get. They spend all their money to make an exact clone of the iPod. Look at an Ipod Classic then the first Zune, they are identical! Now look at the Nano and the new flash Zune. They should have done at least something innovative, but unfortunately they are unable to innovate at all. This is why everyone hates Microsoft and their stock has stayed flat for years.

  33. PookieBadmuffin

    By that very same reasoning OS X has been a “relative flop so far.”

    You’re not especially bright, Erick.

  34. Rohit

    Wow Eric,
    You just reviewed something you never tried. And I though Techcrunch was cool???
    Its amazing how iFanboys still hold on to the Apple even after all the negetive steps by them last couple of months.

  35. Doug

    Ouch, there goes the Techcrunch reputation. This is by far the single worst article I’ve seen on here.

  36. broepke

    You are truly a hater… this is a terrible post to write. How can you expect people to keep reading when all you do is bash everyone who isn’t Jobs… (who’s a dousche bag anyway)

  37. Ed

    @ Hammer - Apple also spends a ton on marketing. or do you think those commercials and billboards just appear out of nowhere?

    @FrankyG - Wireless sharing made easy is not innovative? Actually trying to make a social network out of people using a MUSIC PLAYER of all things is not innovative? Oh my, oh look, that’s an Ipod, I think I’ll go over there and listen to his music :D…..nah.

    What I am still waiting for….is a Dick Tracy cellphone/mp3/tv/everything-else watch! :D

  38. Erick Schonfeld

    Glad to see that Microsoft is in the house. For some of the commentators above who seem a bit confused about this post, it wasn’t meant to be a review. You can get that on Crunchgear or Engadget. It’s simply an analysis of Microsoft’s Zune strategy, particularly the introduction of Zune Social. Nothing anyone has said in the previous 41 comments convinces me that anyone is going to show up there.

  39. Michael Arrington

    Anyone calling erick an apple fan is obviously not a dedicated reader of the blog. Last week he nailed them on the iPhone:

    http://www.techcrunch.com/2007.....e-company/

    The Zune is a weak device in a competitive market. They don’t get a free ride just because Apple’s the leader in the space.

  40. Techhead

    “analysis of Microsoft’s Zune strategy” - Do you really believe that this post can be described as ‘analysis’.

    Take my advise; alienating your readers and posting snidy comments is not the way to keep them sticky. My suggestion to you Erick is to move on from this post, don’t comment any more, don’t dig yourself deeper and try better next time.

  41. Michael Arrington

    ok.

    something tells me this got linked on a microsoft lovers forum somewhere. Anyone have the link?

  42. Alan

    Something about this post makes it feel very different from other TechCrunch posts. I think Erick has a very different style of writing from the other authors @ TechCrunch.

  43. Michael Arrington

    and something about these anonymous comments smells a little like a setup.

  44. TDavid

    “And to try to make the kids care about a second-class device that, well, no one cares about,”

    Michael, editorial correction, please: I care about the device. != no one.

  45. Techhead

    @Michael Arrington

    Im not sure if the real argument is that Erick is an ‘apple fan boy’ or not. The fact is that the article is simply badly written and researched. Clearly the Zune has not sold as much as the iPod but then again OSX has not sold as many copies as Windows. Based on the Erick logic one could assume that OSX is a ’second class’ product.

    We are used to well written and un-biased articles on TC and this type of post simply annoys the fickle tech savvy blog reader.

    Its a shame you don’t have RSS feeds per author, that we can pick and choose who we want to read.

  46. elvirs

    I dont think there is anything like a link from MS forums to this particle post.
    The review was unfair and not honest, like the aim was just to follow the ‘MS cant do anything right and Apple cant do anything wrong’ trend.

  47. leah

    While I’m not headed over to the Zune social personally, I do think that the new player offers a lot of neat features, like the wireless syncing and the do-it-for-you TV downloads. That’s stuff that apple hasn’t brought to their products yet.
    And even if ipods do outsell zunes 100 to 1 (like they did last year), it’s still good for the competitive spirit. And good blogging fodder:
    http://www.itgumbo.com/mumbogu.....r_over.php

  48. Jorge

    FULL DISCLOSURE: Erick has significant quantities of Apple stock. It is in his interests to slam all the competitors to Apple products, even if this requires him to make inane, unreasoned statements.

    1) OMIGOD! I can play playlists on my computer! So it’s not a feature that I can now share these playlists WITH MY MP3 PLAYER, ON THE GO, WITHOUT A COMPUTER!!! (What sort of messed up reasoning is that?)

    2) OMIGOD!! MS isn’t trying to create a phone!!!
    Are you referring to the craptastic iBrick? The one that locks you into to a proprietary system, that locks you into a company that will INTENTIONALLY brick your phone?

    You know, come to think of it, I actually prefer the Zune to a crapple. One may look like turd, but the other actually is.

  49. Erick Schonfeld

    If the Zune showed some major advance over the latest iPods in design or functionality I would forgive Microsoft its negligible market share. But this isn’t exactly a leapfrog product. And, for the record, I am an equal-opportunity basher. I’ve written critical posts about Apple as well, and will continue to do so when it is warranted.

    And, no, I do not own any Apple stock. I don’t even own an iPhone.

  50. Jason Kratz

    Arrington-

    Instead of worrying about a ‘microsoft lovers forum’ maybe you should take a look at the fact that your employee wrote a crappy article. I am not coming from a ‘microsoft lovers forum’….I am coming here via the RSS feed I get in Google Reader. This article is a ridiculous ‘analysis’.

    In my mind the Zune is the only alternative to the iPod (which I own). It is the only player that does AAC. It has a fantastic display. Are they selling as many as Apple? Of course not but then again that isn’t the point. There is room out there for iPod alternatives and again in my mind Microsoft is providing the only good alternative.

  51. suzane

    what’s wrong with you Microsoft people? Stopping good writers from criticism won’t get you anywhere!!! you wanna compete, work harder, pleaseeeeeee.

    Erick, keep the hard work.

  52. Daniel Gary

    Erick,

    Then could you please write a post highlighting some of the positive aspects(and there are a great many) of the new Zunes? It would be a nice way to say you are not biased.

    Some things you could hit on:

    Pricing is great.
    The screen is very nice, larger than iPod classic.
    Wireless syncing
    Wireless sharing without 3 day limit(still 3 plays)
    New codecs, now supports H.264, MPEG-4, and WMV
    Videos recorded from Windows Media Center can now be sync’d to your Zune. Wirelessly.
    The new software looks amazing. If you haven’t seen it, check the video on engadget.

    And best of all, the Zune 30, which has been out for almost a year now, will be getting EVERY ONE OF THE NEW FEATURES.

    When you say “If the Zune showed some major advance over the latest iPods in design or functionality”, did you mean aside from wireless sharing and syncing and larger screen, the social aspects, the really nice looking new interface that looks far better than the iPod Classic’s, and the Media Center integration?

  53. Bill W

    I’m excited about the new Zune, as the industry newcomer they are definitely pushing the industry in a new direction.

    1M DRM free songs - that’s awesome, and granted, you can only share them with others for 3 plays, but that is 3 more than any other player (correct me if I’m wrong). And with 80 GB of storage - heck, you know how long it will take me to randomly play a song 3 times w/ 80gb?

    Updating old versions - nice job - nice too see MS sharing the new technology.

    Darren Stuart - I like the idea of handing bundling with the xbox - or better yet, why not make a halo edition? It would be cool if you could “record” the video on your XBOX games, and then transfer them to the ZUNE for viewing. Allowing all of the gamers to share what they were able to do/accomplish.

    Disclaimer - I still have a white iPod.

  54. Tom B

    Since you are so quick to point out sales numbers, may I remind you it took the ipod nearly TWO YEARS to hit the 1.3 million mark.

  55. Steve Skinner

    Eric, I didn’t know you were such a kool-aid drinker. As a writer for techcrunch, don’t you think an unbiased, real product review would be more helpful to your readers? I guess the expectations are pretty low anyway; no one is expecting you to provide anything resembling real journalism. With the announcement of your fanboy status, you might even lose some credibility with other Apple product lovers, since it appears you don’t review objectively when you have your fanboy hat on. I would imagine Techcrunch readers like myself are much more interested in objective, unbiased reviews of new products. I don’t know you, and therefore could care less about your preferences. There are plenty of places I can read about how great the iPod is. Don’t waste our reading time with that unless you’re actually reviewing an iPod.

  56. Danny

    Why is this post here anyway? You guys are terrible at hardware. There isn’t a tech blog out there that doesn’t have a more thoughtful post about this.

    >and something about these anonymous comments smells a little like a setup.

    You should smell the original post first. You don’t seem to get that there actually isn’t a reasoned comment in the thing. For instance:

    But if you share them with someone else the other person can still only play them three times. That’s Microsoft for you. They put the DRM in “DRM-free” music.

    So TechCrunch’s position, I’m assuming, is that I can copy all the posts from here onto my blog, uncredited and you wont’ have a problem with it? Hmmm doubtful. It is obvious that record companies would never sell DRM free tracks to MS if there were no sharing restrictions. A reasoned post would acknowledge that and then ask coherent questions like whether or not they should have canned that feature altogether or evern better, why is it that those who have Ultimate subscriptions are subject to the same lame restrictions. Those are good questions. “They put the DRM in “DRM-free” music.” is just lame ass Digg bait.

  57. Sickened

    Bombing blogs with shill comments doesn’t work, Microsoft. You’ve just convinced me, once again, that you don’t deserve my business. The sucking up to Arrington is so… pathetically… obvious.

  58. Michael Arrington

    yep…comment bombing doesn’t work. When a post is this far down on the home page it just doesn’t get this velocity of comments unless there is an organized attempt to trash it going on.

    does anyone remember the trashing we got when we received a test computer with the new vista on it? Or the fact that we gave silverlight a very favorable review? Or that I keynoted Mixx 07? Or that we were accused of conflicts on interest when microsoft ran an ad on techcrunch that included a quote by me? We don’t hate microsoft. we write what we think. You can hate it, but you can’t change it.

  59. pdq

    So, for $150 (for 4 GB) or $200 (for 8 GB), I can either get a super-exciting brand new Zune2, which is _almost nearly the same as last year’s_ iPod Nano (except that the scroll wheel is fake), or I can get a boring, new, real iPod Nano. For the same price.

    Hmm. That’s a tough one.

    Looks like Apple is doomed again.

  60. Danny

    >We don’t hate microsoft. we write what we think. You can hate it, but you can’t change it.

    For the record, I don’t think it is biased, I think it is just poorly written. I don’t think much of the Zune at all but here the tone is all wrong - much more kiddy rant than thoughtful. Not like TechCrunch, usually you are better writers and thinkers. (Unless you beg to differ and can point me to a similarly goof ball post.) It is just funny that on this one, Gizmodo and Engadget look like the adult blogs, that’s all.

  61. vanman

    Wow, this is an extremely biased article, this guy hasnt even held a zune 2, why is it when microsoft trys to compete with apple, everyone hates on them and bitches at how bad their products are but when say creative or iriver does this no one says a peep. is it because all the apple fanboys know that microsoft will pass apple in the audio/mp3 player market?, i was on wikipedia and the amount of zunes sold to this date are more then the ipod sold in a year and a half. so figure that one out and also, give microsoft the amount of time apple has had to update and revise their ipod, and we will see a very elegant product from them guaranteed.

  62. John Mills

    The Zune Zucks!

  63. Zune will win the hearts if not market share

    as expected this media player market becoming Apple-Microsoft only war…btw zune is trying sincerely..its now software game in hatdware…at least MS trying…look at other rivals of ipod who have been trying from last 5 years without any significant success…i bet on Zune..it will win the hearts if not market share

  64. Hornswaggled

    I wold of liked a more in depth analysis and explanation of the social side of the player but I agree with the points of the article.

    This is almost like the PPP people coming in and defending the product. The Zune is a decent player but not one that stands out in any meaningful ways.

  65. Roy

    Odd. Every single article collects a certain amount of “this is the worst post evar!” and “I expected more from Tech Crunch!” replies. What is this, Fark?

    The article was pointing out that a social network plus an mp3 player without any real innovative functionality will have trouble gaining traction.

    It’s true! Start your own damn blog if you think you can do better.

  66. M2blog

    Good article, best about the new Zune so far. Ignore the Microsoft-trolls. You could even be more cynicle about the new Zune, the new “Zune Pad” seems to be beyond stupid.

    I really don’t know, why so many people seem to think, that they need the good Microsoft to save them from the evil Apple Inc.

  67. phenom

    Zune might be good, but not the best…..
    http://vidsonly.blogspot.com

  68. Praveen

    I am a regular TC reader and never a commentor. This shitty article made me finally comment. Good job.

    FYI if this post is linked in some MS loving forum, you could find it with ur analytic tools very easily. So stop making this a conspiracy and read the post again.

  69. i don't need an ipodom!

    1990′S MICROSOFT SHINES, APPLE FADES
    2000′S APPLE SHINES, MICROSOFT FADES
    2010′S MICROSOFT AND APPLE DISAPPEAR

  70. anon

    Erick boy, don’t hate zune. All you are trying to do is get some traffic to your site with this post.

  71. Daniel Gary

    Did I get banned? My comments are not showing up

  72. Heelo

    What was worse:

    - The article written by Schonfeld?

    *or*

    - The “conspiracy theory” defense by Arrington?

    Tough call.

  73. webonics

    Boo. I have a Zune30 (Brown) and I have both Windows PCs and a Macbook Pro. I like both vendors but the Zune is an awesome device..the software could be better which hopefully sounds like it is coming in November for both the new and old product versions. I love recording on Tivo and transferring to my Zune for later watching. The interface on the device is way better than my iPods.

    I recently met with a senior evangelist at Adobe and this was a statement that they made about Microsoft encroaching on their territory: “People often gawk when MS releases an offering that competes with an existing product. But that is a mistake as MS has a precedent of releasing a first version with lots bugs and deficiencies. The second version is better and pretty darn good. And by the third version, MS has an offering that can really compete or overtake the competition. As a competitor, we can never take their developments lightly.”

    I hate reading these uneducated reviews on TechCrunch. Please leave the reviews to Engadget or CrunchGear where they have better expertise on gadgetry.

  74. sir jorge

    A ups man or a Mexican. I like the brown.

  75. anonymous

    i came here from digg, not a ms board. and i’m an ipod owner, on my 2nd one. but this article was a piece of fanboy trash that i don’t expect when i come to tc. anyone bashing microsoft for having 1M+ drm free songs that only allow limited sharing when comparing them to apple who is the most restrictive digital music retailer on the planet is a joke.

  76. Jim Z

    After reading all 76 comments, I have to agree with the majority of the people commenting on this story. I read this one after the other posts on engadget and the other websites. I was surprised that such a great site (I read just about every story on it) resorted to a post like this. It is clear that the author feels that the packaging is more important than the functionality.

    The iPod is slowly becoming the Office of Microsoft. That is, it is becoming the monopolistic product that Apple centers all of its technology on it. If you don’t believe it, you should read the excellent article in about Apple becoming the new Microsoft (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/09/07/newms/index.php).

    After reading about the new software, I went and ordered a Zune. I already own two iPod Videos and refuse to purchase a new one to get the new software of the new Classic. Considering that the Zune can be purchased for $119 online, it is a great deal for a device that is getting good reviews and the new software would make it better. Couple that with Amazon’s new MP3 downloads store, I believe it makes for a much better alternative to the iPod.

    All in all, I think Apple’s success has gone to their head lately. Case in point:

    1. AppleTV is a great concept and a bad execution. I own one and am pissed off by the fact that it still does not have the wireless iTunes store support.
    2. iPods are monopolistic products - you can only use iTunes to sync it (unless you use one of the many hacks available which will cause your library to get corrupted every now and then). Every new feature requires you to purchase a new device. I also have something against the scratch prone surface of the iPod - make a better product that doesn’t scratch so easily. Also, Apple - Get with your licensed accessories makers and standardize on the accessories and their compatibility - Even try to fit an iPod in a case into the docking station? Impossible. Why? Because the docking station was not designed for it. The problem is when you use a clear case that locks the ipod in the case, you now need to take it out. Ever try to fit a standard headphone jack into the headphone jack on the iPod when it is in a leather case? Good luck doing that as well because the standard jack is a couple of millimiters wider than the “Apple” headphone size. So one has to go and get an apple cable for the purpose of being able to connect their iPod (in a case) to their aux port in their car using the $5.99 cable. Also, what is the deal with the video cable? When I bought the iPod, TV out is a feature of the iPod that is not advertised as needing specially licensed cables. The iPod Video was easy to get around but now there is a chip in the cable itself? What else are you going to charge us next for? The right to hold it? (Now I am just venting…)
    3. iPhone - price a phone so expensive, get a million units sold, then lower the price by $200.00 and offer only a $100 rebate to existing customers who waited in line. Somewhere in AppleVille someone is laughing their way to the bank. Lets not talk about the fact that it is one of the worse phones ever created from a technology perspective and the fact that it is a phone created for soccer moms and not the working professional.
    4. iTunes - one of the worse applications on the Windows platform, really bad customer service (can not call them) especially when files don’t download properly, but have already been downloaded (God only help you if you lost your library - Apple will only allow you to re-download once per lifetime and only after you beg them for it - all via email).
    5. Safari for Windows - release one of the buggiest piece of crap software for the sake of showing the world your brand name. Get a million people to download it so that you appear as making a dent in the browser wars and then admit that it was not ready for even an alpha release.

    I know that the majority of people do not agree with me and my opinions. But to bash a product before it is released or you had the chance to play with it and use it simply because it does not have Apple’s numbers is just not fair and not good reporting.

    Just my two cents.

  77. Will

    These types of post are growing more common, and make me want to read TechCrunch less. What gives?

    For the record: I don’t own a Zune, don’t plan to, and I do own an iPhone.

  78. tussu

    techcrunch should have better commenting system and digg like comment rating i want to see soonly.

  79. muddi

    worst point of view ever.criticism without any backup

  80. Matt Scoble

    I’m not an iPod user and have only seen the Zunes from afar. But as a father, with two kids that are avid iPod users, I will tell you that both of them (girl of 15 and boy of 17), have independently come to me in the last couple of months and, unsolicited, told me how cool they think the Zunes are and that they want to purchase one.

    So, a sample set of 2 is not very commanding, I know, but even though anecdotal, I think it inidicates that the Zune team is defnitely doing some things right.

  81. BRAD

    Well I will never read this tech site! Don’t even give a chance to a great product. With robots like you, why should apple ever, Ever, EVER change their firmware or update their hardware! Give Competition a chance!

    SWITCHING TO ANOTHER better TECHSITE!

  82. Ryan W.

    Wow.

    This is seriously pathetic. I’m no fanboy by any means (I own an iPod touch and at one point I even owned a Zune), but this is just a very poorly written article. How about giving us facts instead of crappy opinions about the product? ‘Liek omgawd it has only sold 1.2 million units liek omgsh that means it must blow HEHEHE’ - seriously shut up. Think about it for a second and stop blaming so called ‘fanboys’ for bashing this piece of crap article.

    Just for reading this I almost want to sell my iPod touch and get a Zune just to shove it in your face, I won’t, but you’ve almost got me to the point of doing that.

    You didn’t accomplish anything with this review. The new Zune is clearly better than the iPod classic, but not nearly as good as the iPod touch. BUT they’re not competing with the touch, they’re placed right in the middle of the classic and touch, giving consumers a better option.

  83. Justin

    pathetic retarded article.. just pathetic.. its retarded pointless articles like these that give blogger journalists a bad name

  84. Suresh

    worst article I ever read. If it was from apple, would you dare to speak up Erick? Are you getting paid for being apple fanboy? go suck yourself

  85. Chands

    Zune might have some cool functions, but it looks butt ugly outside. Whats with the colors? The pale dulled out colors remind me of a 1970’s factory floor…. Isn’t this product supposed to be fun?

  86. Nik Gomez

    @michael
    “When a post is this far down on the home page it just doesn’t get this velocity of comments unless there is an organized attempt to trash it going on.”

    Don’t you have any sort of site traffic analytics working in the background? Check that to see if we’re all coming from one place! Don’t just hint at the fact that you think that we’re conspiring against you, actually check to see if your suspicions are true!

    By the way, I doubt that Microsoft is sending Apple haters to your blog, this is just a horrible article and people are used to reading high quality work here. This sticks out like a soar thumb.

  87. zfeezy

    Comment bombing! Ha!

    We’re loyal TC readers and we hated the article. Get over it — the article sucked.

  88. Jon

    Arrington’s flippant responses are as off-putting as Erik’s initial post.

    “Comment bombing?”
    “Linked to Microsoft lovers forum somewhere?”
    “When a post is this far down on the home page it just doesn’t get this velocity of comments unless there is an organized attempt to trash it going on.”

    Please, Michael. Don’t further insult your readers. I read this in my rss reader this morning - along with all the other posts I receive - and clicked on a direct link from my reader to comment. I didn’t have to comb through your homepage to find it.

    I posted because it was flaming of poor journalism. I was going to continue reading Michael’s posts but now I’ve decided to remove this feed altogether.

  89. Ron

    While I had read about the Zune before, I hadn’t actually seen one live. Yesterday I went to Best Buy and saw my first Zune. My gut response was “you have to be kidding me, who buys this thing?” They looked cheap, two of the three display models were dead, and the colors are hideous. I can’t see how MSFT will catch Apple in this area, if this is what it’s going to put out.

  90. Jon

    An example of an unbiased article can be found here:
    http://www.engadget.com/2007/1.....smackdown/

  91. danman

    hmmm… i’ve been a long time reader of techcrunch… andi making my first comment not because im an ms fanboy or anything (i own a 5g ipod and macbook pro, and im here in asia so obviously i aint getting a zune 2 any time soon). what got me posting here is how the article was written, i mean ive been a fan of techcrunch articles but this entry isnt even an article. it’s like the type of entry you find in a personal blog of some person mad at MS… i know we cant always be objective(but you should be) but how can you say that to a product without even bringing up its good points. i mean WTF, you just say its crappy and thats all? wow, that’s a journalist for you.

    and what really really made me post was the comment of michael that further insults us reader, that we are all microsoft employees that are trying to bomb this article. wow, where’s your intelligence man. i agree with jon, you should check where our IPs are coming from and you’ll realize im nowhere near you are. and you’ll see that im posting from a big design shop that uses all apple products so dont give me that your a microsoft employee sheet.

    this article really sucks… and for the record i think ill be getting a zune 2 for my next player, and it’s just so sweet that ill be in the states this december.

  92. Steve Ballmer

    THE iPod KILLER HAS ARRIVED! Zune 2 is here! Squirt me baby! Better yet squirt on me!

    All of the Zune’s critics are silent in the face of our new software and models!
    Nobody has anything that comes even remotely close to the “Squircle”. If Apple tries to copy this we will sue the living daylights out of them and cancel Office ‘08 completely!

    See all of the details at ZuneScene!
    Tell ‘em Steve sent ‘cha!

  93. Zeke

    Hilarious. The article was spot on and well-written. But it looks like the social’s had a bit of kick start.

  94. third

    Erick, this is what you call analysis? Where the heck on Earth did you get your definition of the word? This — whatever you call it — should not be here in TC. Go put it in your personal blog hosted by any Apple-owned website.

  95. David Mackey

    I’ll use a Zune. Microsoft just has to give it me. :-)

  96. Jay

    This is a disgrace, I’m unsubscribing.

  97. Henning

    This has got to be the worst post I’ve ever read on TechCrunch. Can you say apple fanboyism?

  98. Pete

    I think this “article” got such a response because it just sucks. I never come to the site, just read the rss feed. After reading this article I was curious to see what others were thinking about it… and I am not surprised.

    It’s cool to stand up for your employee, but to defend him by saying all the negative comments are coming from MS is BS. It’s hard to believe that this is what you came up with. It’s pretty sad. :-(

    Are people not allowed to just say that this article sucks, just because it does without being accused of having ulterior motives??? I think everyone expects better articles from TC.

  99. Dev

    what’s worse?
    Erics article and defensive comments or Arrington’s comments?

    Disgrace!!
    I know it’s your blog but remember your blog is what it is due to your readers not just your writing, so please dont take them to be idiots and put up lame comments. Agree it was a bad post and move on and try putting up a better post next time. Sheesh!

    *unsubsribed* btw..

  100. Meir

    This is amazing! I believe that a good product can never appeal to everyone, but should strive for a passionate response at least. This wave of angry comments proves that Techcrunch is indeed a great product.

  101. Abhishek Baxi

    Story so far…

    Erick (The new guy at TC, no I’m not saying Business 2.0 got bust ‘coz of him :)) writes a post which looks like high school girls’ snidy comments on another girl’s figure.

    Erick can’t even respond to comments… No love lost. No one can further comment on such a post.

    He knocks the bog boss’s door.

    Mike Arrington arrives. Says spare him, spare him… he is an , he keeps shitting about the other girl too (Apple iPhone).

    Mike is still wondering how to handle this. He says, this is a setup. Yeah Mikey, MSFT has hired an agency for comment management on TC. They give us $10 for each comment. Tell me you were kidding when you said this… I can’t stop rolling on the floor laughing. Wait… are you calling CIA!

    Mike retorts to the girl… says see I told you, your eyes were nice (silverlight).

    Mike I’ve always believed traditional journalists and popular bloggers are two different species.. unlike popular belief that the latter is succeeding the former. Thank you, for reinstating my belief. You can’t be a journalist.

    Wish you were still a lawyer… you still love taking biased sides.

  102. Abhishek Baxi

    BTW, Richard Macmanus does analysis… You only inform.

    Now don’t tell me RWW has hired me!

  103. RiO

    #105, switch to English please! Who hired you at MSFT?

  104. Ed

    Another good lesson for Mikey. The readers ultimately have the power.

  105. gabbu

    @107
    u must b michael i’m sure.

  106. Marc

    1. Zune doesn’t sell as well as iPod. Brilliant discovery, thank you for your hard work.

    2. The new Zune looks even more like an iPod. You might want to continue your research on this one, because the new Zune looks almost identical to the old Zune. Both generations of Zune have better screens than the any of the pre-iTouch iPods. iTouch is definitely sexy, but there’s some debate as to whether it’s novelty or truly innovative design. I’ve been playing with it and the fact that it requires both hands to operate seems like a step backwards in usability to me.

    3. The new Zune is not a phone. Another excellent piece of detective work. Frankly, I’m happy that I don’t have to worry about my phone and my music/video player being the same device and so are iTouch owners.

    4. The new Zune does not have a touch screen. Can’t get anything past you, can they? See #2.

    5. New Zunes use Flash memory. Is there a better alternative that you would recommend? Do you think that iPod was the first device to use Flash memory? Hard to see what your point is on this one.

    6. Brown Zunes are discontinued. This is disappointing actually as the earth tone was a nice alternative to the standard black, white, and pastels.

    7. The Zune can wirelessly share songs. Somehow you’ve managed to describe this as a bad thing due to a limit of three plays. How many times can I play songs sent to me wirelessly from an iPod? If I’m not mistaken, pre-iTouch, the answer is “You can’t share songs wirelessly,” correct? And then you compare web-based services to the Zune software as if iPods are integrated with these services and Zunes are not.

    I’m just left feeling like you’re calling all of us Zune owners idiots, which is frustrating. I think that the responses you’ve received were from similarly frustrated readers, resulting in some harsh criticisms of your post.

    So maybe Zune isn’t the most successful portable device ever. So maybe Microsoft’s marketing strategy may not get people to buy a Zune instead of an iPod. But the features offered by Zune, the competitive price point, and the commitment to Zune 30 owners (backward compatible accessories, firmware upgrades which include all of the new features) deserve at least a nod.

  107. Erik

    why do you have to be so negative to the Zune thing? I have not seen ipod sell 1 million copies in thier first year being on the market, in fact, everybody is talking about zune all over the world in one year. watch zune, i say about 6 years like ipod is now in the air, and everybody will have a zune in their pocket.

    Zune owner from Holland