September 28, 2007

Conflicts Of Interest: Why Do Microsoft, AOL, Yahoo, Red Hat And Others Support The National ID Card?

Michael Arrington

84 comments »

The REAL ID Act of 2005 is a $17 billion privacy and civil rights nightmare that requires all fifty states to issue standardized ID and drivers license cards. Luckily, it has been stuck in bureaucratic limbo. Congress mandated the cards, passed off the strategy to Homeland Security and stuck the states with the tab for actually paying for all of this.

Not much has actually happened to push the REAL ID Act forward since it was passed, mostly because no funding has been allocated.

Seven states have passed laws refusing to implement the law and another ten have passed resolutions asking Congress to revisit the issue. The ACLU has a website called Real Nightmare that tracks the progress of the legislation (and opposes it). Cato Institute Director of Information Policy Studies Jim Harper has written a book called Identity Crisis which outlines the reasons why it will hurt our country and its citizens. There are House and Senate bills before Congress now that would repeal the Act.

So why are Microsoft, AOL, Yahoo, Red Hat and many other large technology organizations that are members of the ITAA calling for the government to fund the program immediately and push it forward?

Probably because they stand to gain a lot of money from lucrative government contracts outsourcing the technology and security aspects of the program. The estimated direct costs of the program are $11 billion (with another $6 billion in estimated compliance and opportunity costs to the country) - much of that money would end up in the hands of the ITAA members who would bid for the work.

If the REAL ID Act becomes reality, U.S. citizens would be forced to provide copies of their birth certificate, social security card and other identification documents to the government to get the card. All of that data would be scanned and entered into fifty interconnected databases, one for each state. That would be a prime target for hackers, either through a direct attack or by attempts to compromise DMV employees for access. Jim Harper, who wrote the book linked above, says our identity theft problems today would be nothing compared to what would happen when (not if) that database was hacked. He also wrote about the ITAA issue yesterday, and the ACLU chimed in today.

The fact is that the REAL ID Act will cost billions, will do nothing to protect the country from terrorists, and no one stands to gain anything except for the technology and security companies who land the big contracts to build and maintain the system.

It is a shame to see these companies beg for handouts from the government, at the expense of their real customers (all of us).

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  1. Web

    If the REAL ID Act becomes reality, U.S. citizens would be forced to provide copies of their birth certificate, social security card and other identification documents to the government to get the card.

    The irony of all this is that you are providing official ID to get official ID.
    So you already have REAL ID to begin with.

  2. wayne lambright

    I wish [more government = better government]

  3. Marshall Kirkpatrick

    Very creepy stuff that’s easy to forget about while paying attention to tech - but thanks for drawing the connection and calling out these companies. Brings to mind the recent “Self Discipline Pact” several of them signed promising to hand over the identities of dissident users to authoritarian governments.

  4. Chris Jacobson

    I’m surprised we haven’t heard about a worldwide Google ID card yet.

  5. Deals and Coupons

    Thanks but no thanks!

  6. MGZ

    Michael, since you brought the issue up (sort of), how would you characterize yourself, politically?

  7. Michael Arrington

    MGZ - hard core libertarian.

  8. Bjorn Tipling

    It’s because you have to exchange your humanity for an MBA. Corporate clones are like non-human entities that actually eat money. They need to eat cash dollars to survive.

  9. Chris Brentano

    Good post, way to highlight the issue.

    “Worldwide in 2003 IT accounted for approximately $2.4 Trillion or 6.8% of GDP according to Digital Planet 2004. Of that total, governments worldwide accounted for approximately $398 Billion of spending, or 16.6% of total ICT spending in the world. Perhaps more importantly, by 2007, government spending on ICT is expected to grow to $549.6 Billion. The trade conclusion that can be drawn from these statistics is that ICT is an industry important to the U.S., and frankly, to the rest of the world. A market in excess of $2 trillion is one where the U.S. wants to participate.” (From itaa.org)

    Yeah, I bet they each want a piece of that $549 Billion pie.

  10. Krish

    Amen to this, Michael.

  11. Michael Arrington

    by the way, i almost used this image for the post -

    http://www.starstore.com/acata.....heet_L.jpg

  12. Hasan Luongo

    nice to see you breathing a bit of fire this morning and calling companies on their
    actions

  13. Mike

    “The fact is that the REAL ID Act will cost billions, will do nothing to protect the country from terrorists, and no one stands to gain anything except for the technology and security companies who land the big contracts to build and maintain the system.”

    Exactly. And that is why here in Montana, even our governor raises his center phalanges to propositions of this sort.

    http://www.stateline.org/live/.....tId=199732

  14. Tony

    “National ID cards are not proper in a free society. This is America, not Soviet Russia. The federal government should never be allowed to demand papers from American citizens, and it certainly has no constitutional authority to do so.”

    -Ron Paul in 2004
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul222.html

  15. Clyde Smith

    Michael, thanks for drawing attention to this extremely important issue.

    Still wondering what you think about the estimated $4.5 million round for Global grind.

  16. Wandering

    Michael- Any chance you’ll have some Ron Paul banner ads on this site?

  17. kid mercury

    thanks for spreading the word about this HUGELY important issue with a great blog post and accurate insight.

    thumbs up for techcrunch.

  18. The Aesthetic Elevator

    I may soon be swayed to Ron Paul . . .

    It is a shame to see these companies beg for handouts from the government, at the expense of their real customers (all of us).

    Tis pitiful and piti-fool. Brings to mind all kinds of futuristic and dsytopian media and literature. They may get rich, but they’ll send the country to hell in a handbasket.

  19. whoopie

    the people who are talking about this stuff are the same people who think excel is a database, and their laptop is a database server.

  20. Jerome

    I’m disappointed in these companies for supporting this, but realize they are in business to make money…

    The real question is what will WE the people do? Not to turn this too political, as I’m sure the readership here is smart enough to decide for themselves but if you are open-minded you owe it to yourself to at least research candidate Ron Paul. There is a reason his fundraising call went out asking for $500,000 in the last week of this quarter and got it in about 70 hours! The goal is now 1Mil and looks like it will be reached … in just 1 week! watch the count live at ronpaul2008.com

  21. Amar Reddy

    Anything that is proposed during the tenure of the dispicable president George Bush should be delayed till a new president with a new mandate is in place. In spite of the countless screwups under this administration, I can’t fathom why ppl still give a f..k about what they have proposed. Anything this administration does, Just say No. I understand that this is how the system works, but when are ppl going to get a spine to stand up.

  22. Serge

    “hard core libertarian” - may I point out at not liberal.

    Ah.. these lawyers, you got to love them…

    By the way, Mike is a Republican from what people around Stanford say (nothing wrong with that, just making that public :)

  23. Jefferson

    Michael - I am impressed. Now that’s you’ve gone down this road, you might want to include an article about VeriChip and the Amero in the future.

  24. Bob Jones

    That is why political funding and lobbying need to be destroyed, worldwide, the only thing the gov should listen to is votes … each MS employee can have a vote, that should be it.

  25. Andrew

    Ron Paul is the only candidate who is against the Real ID.

    There was a debate a month or so ago…and 9 Republicans before him said they are for it. Then Ron Paul got his turn to speak and he blasted it…saying exactly what kind of problems a Real ID would bring

    After that EVERY candidate started out his next answer to a different question with…”to get back to the real ID question..what I meant was ……”

    And to all those saying Ron Paul has no chance: http://www.ronpaul2008.com/ he is already top tier. He is going to raise 1 million in 1 week(by comparison John Edwards is trying to raise 1 million in 10 days)

  26. Andrew

    oh and if you want to donate to Ron Paul campaign…I suggest you do it before Sunday, because that is when the quarter ends, and #s get reported.

  27. Steve Ballmer

    Why?
    Because it’s smart!
    These other companies obviously have a different though!
    http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

  28. Sven

    There are plenty of other countries in the world who are able to combine greater freedom than what is experienced by the citizens in this country with some type of national ID system…

  29. Roman

    Wow, i guess Techcrunch has turned into a political blog/gossip column/tech blog…
    This is not news, this is a political opinion that has nothing to do with technology, except to say that big tech companies have incentives for certain legislation to pass and others not to…. WOW… what a breakthrough idea

    There is not even a direct comment about security technology, just a complaint about data being stored in databases. I can’t believe this sort of opinion is coming from a technology blog, I’m starting to think that Mike knows nothing about technology and just follows trendy Web 2.0 piece of crap companies… A LOT of person information is already stored in databses? Do you have a bank account, have you ever used an ATM? databases!!! They’re all run on databases!

    Funny how Mint won at techcrunch, yet there was no concern about privacy there…
    Pick a stance, you can’t be supportive of Web 2.0 and cry out about how databases are prone to hackers. The majority of products on the web store personal information in databses. If you think REAL ID is bad for all of us, then so are all of these Web 2.0 companies. I expect better logic from a stanford law grad.

    I don’t like this new direction that Techcrunch has been taking lately…

  30. Amar Reddy

    Roman…U seem to forget that this is primarily a blog..that happens to also cover web 2.0 among many things. A blog can go side ways while still being relavent to its core audience.

  31. Andrew

    @29 Roman yes they are stored in a database…but if a hacker hacks one, your whole life isn’t stolen. Here you have ALL of your information in one place. And you can bet your ass it’ll be a higher target because you can get your hands on all the information

  32. James Thomas

    Roman,

    While you do bring up valid points, I’m glad Mike posted this. In fact, I’m glad he’s been taking a more hands on approach to his blog lately instead of letting his writers run it.

    And btw… we can complain all we want (I’m majorly vocal about some stuff here), but as long as we’re still subscribed there’s not much we can really say. ;)

  33. Jerome

    “If you think REAL ID is bad for all of us, then so are all of these Web 2.0 companies.”

    Ah. REAL ID equates with Web 2.0 companies. That statement speaks for itself.

  34. Dan and Jennifer

    Hey Michael,

    The photo you actually used is much more telling, definitely the better choice. :-)

    Good post, not really off topic at all. Sad to see these big companies selling out the people and themselves for a few contracts. It’s shortsighted stuff like this that comes back to bite you down the road.

    All the labels - Liberal, Republican, etc. that people like to throw around are a replacement for thinking for yourself. Yeah, it’s easy to pick the party choice.

    How about a more simple definition? Maybe something along the lines of “Fascist stuff like this that destroys civil liberties and makes government even BIGGER and MORE omnipotent is a bad thing - let’s not vote for it”.

    D&J

  35. Roman

    Andrew,
    Isn’t this the entire concept of Mint? all of your credit cards and financial information in one place, and not only do they store it, they analyze it for you…
    yet this won at techcrunch40 and has been praised…

    you guys really don’t think there’s a disconnect here?

    I don’t have a strong political opinion on the issue, I just think that the technological argument is weak, hypocritical in light of the praise Mint and other receive, and is really just a way to tie in technology to a purely political post… which is fine, but will alienate most of the readers I know. Which is also fine I suppose.

  36. Fabian Schonholz

    I think this is one of those tough things where business, personal believes and politics collide head on. I do not blame these companies for trying to make money, but sometime I wandered when “enough is enough” for these guys. But each one of them should the the “right thing”; which may be different depending on each company.

    A touch call.

    I am with most of you. The ID will not solve problems but make existing ones worse.

  37. Jerome

    @Roman - the difference is really simple. *Private* companies such as Mint are opt-in at your own choice and risk. REAL ID mandates your information be handed over for whatever tracking/handling Big Brother sees fit. Seriously borg style my friend.

  38. David B.

    Michael, you’re now back on my favorites list….

  39. Roman

    @ Jerome, I’m not comparing the two politically, I understand that one is opt-in and the other is not.

    The point is that conceptually, and technologically, they both face the same “risks” you mentioned. Yet the posts about Mint praise it, encouraging you to opt in. If you truly believe that existing technology is so unsafe, I don’t understand how you can encourage people to join Mint.

  40. David

    Thanks Michael… you are spot on.

    To (2) Wayne who said, “I wish [more government = better government],” this may be why the government continues to gorge itself at the citizen’s expense. There are too many who just *want* to believe that government can do good. Government is not meant to “do good”… it is simply meant to protect our liberties. Everything else should be up to the individual.

    To (35) Roman, one of the many things you are failing to recognize is the difference between a system that is implemented through force under threat of violence (government/law/enforcement/prison) or a system that is joined voluntary, is subjected to competition in a free market, and only receives funding if the consumer is continually pleased with the service (private companies). This particular distinction should be crystal clear to anyone reading a entrepreneur-related blog.

  41. TheChris

    It amazes me that we’re so generally so ignorant and so forgiving of corporations.

    There’s a huge difference between a Mint type service and a National ID. One is voluntary the other is not. There are a ton of business consequences related to this fact; just take some time and think how a mandatory versus voluntary information data service would behave. Which has more incentive to properly secure your data?

    Quit giving corporations a free-ride because at some point you were conned into thinking a corporations’ sole purpose is “to make money.” Would you truly want to live in a world where this is the case? The only way this can be true is if the behavior were generally accepted. Unfortunately, consumers have become ignorant of corporate behavior, thus allowing less accountability. However, the tide is changing and the extreme pain necessary to open the eyes of the American consumer is coming; the currency is going to continue it’s decline or it will collapse altogether.

    The last statement may sound doomsdayish, but China’s peg to the dollar is becoming more and more pressured. At some point they will need to abandon the peg. Some say, “but they need the US to import goods.” Maybe not. They’ve been siphoning off the US wealth nicely with the help of US mega-corporations - they’re creating their own class of consumers. If you have 1.3 billion people, it’s not impossibly difficult to replace the 300 million US consumers with the right strategy.

  42. Andrew

    Look at my posts in Mint thread…I blasted the service exactly for the same reason. And I do not plan to use it. The difference like it was pointed out, is here every single person in the country is forced to participate.

    + As I pointed out in the mint thread…those same posts reeked of Mint staff promoting thier product.

    This real id, is the “PAPERS PLEASE” from Nazi Germany.

    Actually I wonder if you realize that you don’t have to present an ID to anyone right now? The driver’s license is not an ID, its proof that you can operate the vehicle.

  43. Jerome

    @Roman - there are just a few bills that I don’t pay online, because it’s not yet available. I look forward to when I can do it all online. If my data gets hacked they only have the info in that separate db. But data safety is not really the point. The point is these companies can’t track and spy on *ME* which is the BIG difference between online data and the REAL ID program.

  44. Thricer

    What is wrong with these corporations (and governments alike)? It’s sickening. What ever happened to the betterment of society, of people? Why can’t you make profits while doing the right thing? Only the weak, cowardly, slothful CEOs would do otherwise.

    Their greed is fruitless because it has no greater purpose other than sustaining a revenue stream - in the case of REAL ID, a revenue stream at the detriment of society. That is empty and will receive no reward, here nor the next level, if there is one. These tools think they’re gods and emperors. Fuck them.

  45. Andrew

    @44…thats the problem with public companies…you have to show increases in profit no matter what. Even if you are making 500 trillion a year, you better show an increase next year, or you might get fired.

  46. Josh

    OK, understand and sympathize that this is a waste of money. However, it is in no way a “conflict of interest” for the corporation lobbying to see it funded. Their interest is in making cabbage, pure and simple.

  47. Hornswaggled

    I thought Duncan wrote this post when I first read it through email, figured he would be getting slammed in the comments.

    Its interesting to see the business side of this stuff and how the big boys position themselves to make a killing on it if it goes through. While I cannot blame them for trying to make a buck off something I can blame them for supporting and pushing for this crap. I doubt anyone at the higher levels look at anything but the bottom line when addressing issues like this and any PR fallout is probably worth the risk.

  48. Shane

    Awesome article. Very well put, as how does a piece of plastic stop someone from blowing anything up. Not like they know every single terrorist, and it seems unlikely a known terrorist would even try to enter the U.S. these days. Seems more like a great way to catalog every US citizen. Like a creapy Sci-Fi, when the cards expire version 2 will be a bar code on the back of your neck. Is like the whole of the US is in a concentration camp or something (I thought the Nazi’s serial numbering Jewish people was a bad thing).

  49. gilltots

    they should implement this ID program like the current health care situation - if you *want* an ID, you have to buy it yourself, and if you can’t afford one (or don’t want one) then you just don’t get one.

    making the government pay for everyone’s ID?? that’s communism!!

  50. Austin Storm

    Thanks for raising awareness for this issue. My state legislature already passed resolutions against it.

  51. TERRY

    CAN YOU SAY,LET ME SEE YOUR PAPERS!

  52. Rajan Tawate

    Hey,

    Is this techcrunch or is it New York Times.

  53. Villa

    This issue around the security of the data of this application seems to assume it would be available directly through the public internet. That’s a fallacious assumption.

    The reason the majority - not all, but the majority - of sites are hacked is they have a “retail outlet” with a direct connection through the public internet which by definition makes customer data vulnerable. However, most commercial entities secure their back office data through a tightly-controlled VPN with much higher levels of security using products such as RSA’s SecureID.

    A good example of a government system that is not accessible to the public through the internet is the NCIC system — our national criminal database. If I’m not mistaken, I don’t believe this system has been hacked — it’s on its own private network. Yes, someone who is “authorized” may be able to get information from it and share that information but that is relatively low risk — as we have seen. Where banks/govt. get into trouble — and into the public media - is where they allow people to take snapshots of data out of these systems and place it onto their laptops/desktops for local manipulation. This is techically easily allowed and easily prevented. It’s up to the policies - not technologies - of the firm/agency to determine what is and is not allowed.

    If we were to create a national ID through the REAL ID act, I believe it would be put on a VPN and treated like the NCIC. Each person who accesses the system must be authenticated and authorized. In addition, role-based security models could be in place with need-to-know, record by record restricted access. So, the threat of losing all our private information to a hacker or a rogue employee is de minimus.

    The real issue, I believe, isn’t a technical one - it’s a political/economical one. The question is whether or not a national id card will allow us to more quickly and cost-effectively identify whether or not someone is or is not a valid, documented US citizen or an approved-to-be-here foreign national.

    For those who think that it’s perfectly fine to sneak into our country and ignore our laws because they have a “good” reason and should be excused then a national id is potentially a bad idea. For those who think we have immigration laws for a reason, then a national id card is potentially a good idea.

    A quick way to figure out where someone stands on this topic is as follows: if you describe someone who is here in the US, working without official permission by the US govt. as an “undocumented worker” you probably don’t believe in a national id card. If you describe that person as an “illegal alien” you probably do.

    Finally, if the government wants to spy on you, they already can. They don’t need a national id card to do it. It may take a little more effort but it’s not that hard. Data from D&B, Harte Hanks, Experian and Acxiom along with govt. data from the IRS, State Franchise Tax Board, NCIC, etc. can all be aggregated and correlated today to create a personal profile of who you are, what you do and when you do/have done it. Go to Pipl (www.pipl.com) type your name in and get a taste for what I’m talking about — and that’s just what’s available to you as the public. The govt. has a lot more it can do — if it wants to.

  54. Cool

    National ID card… It’s Pretty cool idea…

  55. Thricer

    @ 53 > Finally, if the government wants to spy on you, they already can. They don’t need a national id card to do it.

    So that justifies REAL ID, its cost, etc.? Because they already can? Do we want to make it easier?

    I think your statement is steeped in fallacy.

    > Data from D&B, Harte Hanks, Experian and Acxiom along with govt. data from the IRS, State Franchise Tax Board, NCIC, etc. can all be aggregated and correlated today to create a personal profile of who you are, what you do and when you do/have done it.

    That’s not easy to do, not to mention the data from those sources is far from accurate and decays quickly.

    > The govt. has a lot more it can do — if it wants to.

    I’m pretty sure it wants to, based on recent history.

  56. gilltots

    @53 haha you idiot “oh it’ll be on a VPN” - of course! everyone knows, VPN = hackerproof! the pentagon gets hacked all the time, homeland securitard just got hacked, and you think having a database in each of the 50 states that they wouldn’t be able to hack something like this? riiiiight. do you work for the TSA, by any chance?

    also, there are things known as laws that prevent things like unwarranted searches and domestic spying - it’s just that this current administration thinks they are above the law.

    but i wouldn’t put it past them to waste billions on something as useless as this - after all they are responsible for the iraq war.

    maybe it’s time to deport politicians.

  57. tomas

    Someone should post villa’s whole file history from all the services he has listed. Then, someone should make him read about the American Revolution.

    @Serge: Are you aware of what the Republican party once stood for? With a name like that, I doubt it. But now we must call ourselves “Libertarian” because “Republican” has been hijacked. We believe in capitalism, minimal federal government (more state power), and NOT legislating morality. Protecting the public interest from corporate interests is also a primary tenet. Corporations do not deserve individual rights.

    I work for a corp, btw.

  58. Andrew

    @57, thats why you vote for Ron Paul…beat them at their own game. They hijacked the party by having a vocal minority vote in the scumbags? We can hijack it back by voting in a real republican.

  59. Bryan

    I wanted to thank Villa for thinking it through. REAL-ID has caused a lot of kneejerk reaction, but honestly, this sort of data can be secured, and there are many examples of it being done right in the world today. The assumption among the kneejerk crowd is that it’ll be done at ChoicePoint or lower grades of security.

    The US is becoming a smaller place. Having incrementally better and more portable ID helps us all. Will this solve all problems? No. Will it help with some? yes. Will it have problems of its own? Sure, everything does.

    Will the problems outweigh the benefits? You decide.

  60. ConspiracyNut

    This State ID card is insane. Imagine going somewhere and having a state police stopping you and demanding to see your State issued ID card. Imagine having all that data (SSN, address, birthdate, cars, addresses, etc.) in one DB, easily hacked in your state. I think we need to demand that our Counties be the only one who can issue ID cards.

    Get a grip - If National ID cards are bad and State ID cards are better, then surely County ID cards are best!

  61. ConspiracyNut

    Why not be pissed about something that might actually affect your life like the excess taxes we must pay. Does it strike you odd that we pay much more taxes than what our founding fathers revolted over? You want to talk about liberty, how about the freedom to earn a wage and not have the great redistribution of wealth.

    Federal Income Tax, State Income Tax, County Income Tax, Sales Tax, Gas Tax, Property Tax, Tariffs… Enough!

  62. Meg H.

    Excellent writeup. It is about time this topic got off the political blogs into the mainstream!

    Kudos & props!

  63. villa

    Thricer: I’d like to understand how you came to the conclusion I somehow believe REALID is justified? I said no such thing and didn’t imply it either.

    And Gilltots where did I say “VPN = hackerproof”? I didn’t.

    Finally, Tomas, no…I, like most people with any common sense, don’t want my private information made public so I can be digitally pilloried.

    Irrespective of the national id card, go to a people search site (e.g. http://www.pipl.com ) type your name/state in and see how much of your personal life comes up on it right now. Other than SSID - and even that can be had if you pay a small fee - I’m not sure what it doesn’t already highlight that a national id card would. Yes…the data may be somewhat out of date but it has a lot of content that it’s scraped from public and private dbms’ along with websites such as ZoomInfo, Scope, LinkedIn, MySpace, and Facebook. Pretty scary stuff.

    What is at the root of this discussion is terrorism and immigration. I don’t have an answer to the former but I’m against it - duh - and with respect to the latter I think that people who enter our country and don’t follow our processes should not be allowed to stay; however, I also don’t think our current immigration laws are very realistic.

    If you carefully and objectively re-read my post, I think you’ll find I did not personally take a position for or against a national card. I simply tried to frame the discussion. Whether or not a national id card is a part of the solution to terrorism/immigration is still up in the air for me. I haven’t done enough due diligence to take a position yet. I am personally trying to understand the pros and cons by listening to what others have to say so I can make a rational, non-emotive decision.

  64. jeradc

    I always laugh at people worried about Real ID and states interconnecting DB’s, when CISAnet is sneaking up in the background slowly adding states to it’s internetwork of criminal tracking databases.

  65. Ian

    Conspiracy Nut, here’s something that might help drive the point home to the folks:

    Where is the outrage over sky-high taxes, regulatory costs?
    by Steve Higgins
    7/15/07 - New Haven (CT) Register (Fair Use excerpts)

    “Reports last week from two nonprofit groups should serve as a wake-up call to Americans to start agitating for tax reform . . .

    “On Monday, the Competitive Enterprise Institute reported that the cost to consumers of complying with federal regulations exceeded $1 trillion in 2006 . . . almost 10 percent of the nation’s gross domestic product. It’s nearly half the amount of government spending.

    “Even more worrisome, the cost of complying with these multitudinous regulations exceeds the amount of individual income tax paid in 2006, about $998 billion, as well as corporate incomes taxes of $277 billion.

    “According to the Washington, DC-based advocacy group [ Americans for Tax Reform ], the average American had to work through July 11 this year just to pay all federal, state and local taxes, as well as regulatory costs including workers’ compensation and unemployment benefits.

    “Congress should take one of two paths: Either cut tax rates and government spending drastically, or adopt the FairTax, an innovative proposal that would involve abolishing the Internal Revenue Service and its income tax and replacing it with a simple national sales tax.”

    Full article here: http://snipr.com/wherestheoutrage

    . . . The U.S. income tax system and the U.S. economy are inter-related, and are in DIRE trouble. If we, the citizens of these United States, do not act aggressively to spread the FairTax plan with family, friends and associates - our “nest eggs” stand to be devastated through a coming economic meltdown (see Kotlikoff interview, below).

    Politicians are putting demogoguery and pandering above responsible governing - and they’re able to do it because Americans do NOT understand - at the “get go” - politicians’ / bankers’ hunger for ever-increasing shares of the working person’s bi-weekly paycheck; Americans do NOT understand the totality of taxes they pay. The FairTax shines the “light of day” on this, putting citizens back in charge to forcefully demand spending reductons.

    YOU AND I MUST ACT to mobilize public opinion, and get the FairTax enacted, because the signs point to a probable devaluation of the dollar (for reissuance of an “Amero” ? - under a U.S.-sovereignty-busting North American Union? http://youtube.com/watch?v=6hiPrsc9g98 )

    [ NOTE: Does this help clarify your understanding of what’s going on globally? a) Bush’s persistence on rewarding illegal immigration? b) the North American Highway now under construction in Texas (to stream cheap labor into the covertly-planned North American Union marketplace designed to compete with 21st-century China market? c) the gradual increase in value of the Chinese yuan by China corresponding to China’s economic growth? (This will result in the dumping of dollar-denominated debt as its manufacturing economy grows stronger - which guarantees devaluing and ushering-in of the Amero.) ]

    Keep in mind, this NAU strategy - supported by the “super-rich” (member-owners of the Fed) - together with their politician buddies who want NOTHING to do with FairTax - runs contrary to simply making the U.S. a “tax free zone” for business under the FairTax. Politicians and bankers lose power when the U.S. is returned to a “savings-driven economy” from a “debt/interest-driven” economy).

    Read the summary, “Laurence J. Kotlikoff on Long-Term Fiscal Problems in the U.S.,” and download the podcast here: http://taxfoundation.org/news/show/1859.html

    ( Prof. Kotlikoff is an expert economist, and advocate, of the FairTax plan).

    Powerful “elites,” members of political and monied-interest “clubs” reaching into the halls of power in Washington, depend on keeping you and me uninformed of their plans. It is up to YOU and ME to ACT - and not live in a state of denial - based on what we now know is clearly happening to our financial futures.

    After you consult the Kotlikoff interview (above):

    • (If you’re a member of your State FairTax organization) Contact your state or local FairTax Director to learn what you can do. Find yours here: http://snipr.com/localftleaders

    • (If you’re just learning about the FairTax bill) Join FairTax.org here: http://snipurl.com/scrapthecode

  66. gregory

    illuminating thread… the entire web 2.0 IS big brother… do you think google or mint or twitter or facebook or amazon or whomever won’t make their data bases available to the government? …. that seems naive…. very little divides corporate from government, two words for the same thing, increasingly…

    we are on the way to where everybody can know everything about everybody, the only question is who will misuse it and who wont…

  67. Dempsey

    Meh. State Driver’s license/National ID. As my mom would say: Six of one, half dozen of the other.

  68. concerned

    thx for bringing this issue up.
    the people who support the national id (or those that are indiferent) make me want to puke.

    They just want to control us like cockroaches!

    ;; posted by iPhone

  69. Movlue J. Ridic

    Exactly. And that is why here in Montana, even our governor raises his center phalanges to propositions of this sort.

  70. Pepe

    “MGZ - hard core libertarian”

    Good!! In Spain there is a few like you…

    In Spain we have the national ID now encrypted in a smartcard. But you know, we are a socialist country.

    Cheers.

  71. Yuri Ammosov

    Very good. Next there will be a law allowing to temporary detain anyone found in the street without an ID of failing to provide one at first request, for no more than 30 days… Very glad to see you are finally getting what it means to be a modern, organized, efficient society.

  72. William

    I just moved from the US to Brazil. Here it is already mandatory to have a national ID card…. I was a bit concerned about this, until I found out that after I filled my application for the card it might take 2 years to receive it! Certainly takes some of the wind out of the conspiracy theory sails!

  73. Psalt

    All western europe countries have National IDs since… forever. I don’t understand the problem.

    Databases hacked? Oh, then maybe we should go back to the stone age… There isn’t a single report in EU of an identity theft caused by stolen DBs.

    I don’t get how getting a national ID card invades your liberty. It’s just common procedure for other countries.

  74. David

    (72) Psalt: Other countries don’t enjoy the breadth and depth of liberties that Americans do. And although they have been decreasing significantly in the last century, I for one want to see our liberties maintained and eventually expanded to their former glory.

  75. Psalt

    (73) What I don’t get is what liberty do you lose for having a national ID card…

  76. ConspiracyNut

    Psalt - I’ll answer, with a National ID card, we would have the government always stopping us asking to see our ID. Oh wait, the constitution says:


    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Yup, you are right Psalt, the people on this board are just paranoid and believe that the National ID card, but somehow not the State ID card (which they always have to show) is detrimental to their liberties.

  77. Steve Ballmer

    Why?
    Because it’s smart!
    These other companies obviously have a different though!
    http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

  78. Kim Hjortholm

    You will be shocked to live in denmark! - we all have a personal id and to the best of my knowledge our society works quite well without going under any time soon …….

    Obviously we take the security very serious, I know - as I work in the company which deliver a major part of IT and consultancy services to the public

    From the Wikipidia entry - http://tinyurl.com/3al8pu

    Any person registered as of April 2, 1968 (May 1, 1972, in Greenland) or later in a Danish civil register, receives a personal identification number.
    The number is an integral part of Danish society, and it is virtually impossible to receive any form of government service without one. Even in the private sector one would be hard pressed to receive services without such a number, unless it is minor daily business.

  79. Lazer Epilasyon

    Excellent!

  80. Leftbrainer

    Folks are bringing up cultural comparisons to show that national IDs aren’t such a big deal.
    Culturally speaking, national ID cards would be devastating for the US citizens. Politics don’t hesitate to take away individual rights for “security” reasons.
    $11 billion though, the breach is worth exploring. It’s such a great mass control tool, I’m surprised that we don’t have this yet.

  81. Skyler

    I think our $11 Billion could be much better spent on more important issues than making it that much easier for the government to keep tabs on all of us. I find it amazing that things like Katrina can happen, yet somehow we’ve got the time, money, and resources to even be wasting our time with things like a national ID card. The sad thing is, as much as I like Ron Paul, I don’t think he has much of a chance.

  82. Philippe Chrun

    Isn’t the security/privacy issue more of an emotional one than a rational one? Just like people are afraid to host their information on a 3rd party server (ex: Salesforce) rather than an internal server. Wouldn’t having 1 standard ID card for all U.S. citizens be more efficient than 50 different ones? Just like it’s more efficient for all your medical records to be stored in 1 place (ex: Microsoft Health Vault which you blogged about). than different records being stored in different hospitals you visit. I’m from Canada so maybe I’m not getting something here (ex: big fear of Big Brother listening to your private phone calls and invading your privacy).