Our favorite torrent site is no more, at least for today and tomorrow. Demonoid, the previously fully-private torrent catalog and tracker is down, according to reports at TorrentFreak. Trackers have not been responding for over 24 hours, and the site is completely down.
Demonoid was the second largest tracker online, after ThePirateBay, and has seen its fair share of legal threats and takedown notices from copyright holders and associated groups. Demonoid shifted operations from The Netherlands to Canada back in June after their previous ISP balked at legal threats, but it appears that Canada is no safer as the likely cause of the downtime now is the Canadian ISP blocking the website.
Demonoid was our favorite torrent site, because membership and ratio tracking meant that it provided both a large catalog and much better speeds than alternate trackers. Recently they opened up the last 14 days worth of torrent listings to public access, making the site a quasi-private tracker. Demonoid accounts are also amongst the most requested in inviteshare, and its popularity has blossomed recently as it overtook other previously more popular public trackers which were beginning to fill up with fakes and spam.
Copyright groups have had recent successes against tracker sites and catalogs, no less than a few days ago TorrentBox was also taken down. But at the same time, the recent MediaDefender leaks showed that their effort to plant fakes in popular torrent sites had no impact on the most popular torrent sites including Demonoid – a credit to the communities at these sites who would flag fakes.
Takedown efforts seem to be in vain, as even the once much-loved Suprnova has recently made a come-back. The most that a takedown can accomplish is the intermediate interruption of service to that particular community, but as most BitTorrent users access and use more than one site, and the release groups continue unimpeded, the end results of these efforts from copyright groups are very under-whelming. Shutting down Demonoid for a few days will have no impact on the volume of BitTorrent traffic, and Demonoid will be back shortly and with more interest and new users than ever before.
nooooooooooooooooo!
Check this http://blogote....ot-working.html if demonoid is down
“but as most BitTorrent users access and use more than one sight,” site, not sight, just thought I’d let you know
And also,
NOOOOOO!
I don’t get your way of thinking here; why should we celebrate the fact that plenty of small software developers will get their work ripped-off from with more ease now, and that any attempt at limiting the widespread theft of their work, livelihood and future interest in desktop software innovation is hopefully failing ? This bugs me to no end. Isn’t TC supposed to be on the side of the innovators ?
Louis-Eric,
There are plenty of legit reasons for bittorrent and demonoid. The flaw in your logic, as was the flaw in logic with Napster, is that your condemning the service instead of condemning the content.
Real geeks use Usenet anyways … it’s faster, more stable and more private.
Without the content, there is no service. So is doesn’t matter, either one will result in the end of the site.
That’s one of two arguments that are always offered: alternative uses, and the benefits of free publicity (for an application, an artist, or a movie). Both arguments, while nice in theory, don’t fly in practice: the overwhelming majority of the content found on demonoid and other trackers is entirely illegitimate. Cracked software, entire movies (why should these be made for free ?), etc. It would be one thing if the trackers harbored a frictional, accidental fraction of recently submitted illegitimate titles; but that’s not the case. What they offer reflects the demand, the demand is for illegal material, the providers are therefore complicit. Doesn’t it bug you that the trackers that are actually built to share new music, promote independent films, or any other material made available under a public license are not exactly getting swamped for requests while the illegal contents trackers garner heavy loads as well as the hearts and minds of many more users ? So much for alternative uses. Want alternative uses ? Go to sites actually fostering these ahead of anything else. Demonoid’s not it.
The fact that intelligent geeks and law abiding citizens are continually defending (and using) systems that are mostly for the transfer of illegal content and software, is a social phenomenon, the root of which seems to be largely ignored or not discussed.
Meaning, there’s no point in arguing whether Demonoid (for instance) is good or bad, but rather ask the question: why do so many people think it is ok to steal online?
I worked in Disney’s Online group for 7 years and despite being part of an organization tasked with fighting piracy while still providing digital content to customers; it was amazing to me how many employees were stealing music and movies right at their desks. Young and old, executive or entry level position . . . didn’t matter, you have all types of employees (for a major content provider) stealing content off the Internet. And they’d defend it, mostly by saying, “well I’ll buy if it’s good”.
I used to use Bittorent to download songs from Jamendo, but now where I am at, bittorent transfers are completely cut-off, so I can’t access all those independent artists anymore. Jon-G and Louis Eric both bring up good points, you really can’t fault Bittorent, the technology, but rather sites like Demonoid which mostly feature illegal content
Usenet is Pro but demonoid is pretty slick also i must admit. shame to have the site down for a while,
i got my Operating system from demonoid hehe. Nice OEM Vista 64b Ultimate.
No matter how you look at it, Some of the shit you download from demonoid. alot of you [including myself] cannot afford. but are still more than capable of using the software and utilizing its features….
Like for instance i got a Adobe CS3 master Collection package off Demonoid.
Sorry if its considered theft or whatever. But the real theft lies in adobe’s price for this product…
$2,499 for it. Cmon. i use the damn thing to make clothing on secondlife lol..
Even The photoshop CS3 Full version is about $700.
Not saying this completely justifies getting it for free but everyone deserves to have software such as this for an affordable price, not just rich people and corporate programmers.
So with that being said. p2p is an absolutely amazing system which should not be banned from the web. if you want to ban stuff from the internet.
maybe we could get some of those terrorist beheadings and scat porn off my interwebs :>
Also i wish someone would take http://www.goatse.cz off the web, i have it bookmarked and i cant stop looking at it
#8: Why do you want to use software you can’t afford while there are free alternatives available ? I couldn’t afford a $4000 Armani suit when I was an undergrad, so I got $129 Brionis instead. There are plenty of low-priced and free graphics packages, why not use these ? Why steal from Adobe ? Don’t like their prices ? Try the competitors’ offerings !
Louis i understand your point but still. these programs are cheap knockoffs, hell they are inadequate in so many ways compared to the real deal.
I have Equasions!!
Adobe CS3 Photoshop > Corel Paint Shop Pro 10.0
I have expensive taste and no money so sue me!
“Recently they opened up the last 14 days worth of torrent listings to public access, making the site a quasi-private tracker”
Demonoid is a public tracker, semi private site.
[quote]I don’t get your way of thinking here; why should we celebrate the fact that plenty of small software developers will get their work ripped-off from with more ease now, and that any attempt at limiting the widespread theft of their work, livelihood and future interest in desktop software innovation is hopefully failing ? This bugs me to no end. Isn’t TC supposed to be on the side of the innovators ?[/quote]
Explain to me how copying a file over the internet is “theft”?
If you can afford something, and you think it is a fair price; Buy it. If you can’t afford it or don’t think it is a fair price, but still want it, download it.
Irtehnewb, the free options are not just cheap knockoffs, but competitors, you just need to take the time to get to know how they work, same as it took you a while to learn to use Photoshop or any such program
I use demoniod to download tv shows because I don’t have cable or a dish and canadian broadcasters don’t transmit on a strong signal to make attenna tv viable. nobody provides content to purchase via web in Canada(apple sells apple tv but no content is provided) so wheres the crime I am downloading a few hours later what was broadcast for free.the cable company should be happy I pay more for internet than basic tv(its one or the other) but I guess the big corporations need to suck us dry.
#12 – Did you even read what you quoted? You are ripping-off people’s jobs. If you want free, look for something in the public domain, or that’s GPL’d
http://www.thec...x.com/demonoid/
#13
I know virtually everything there is to know about the programs i am talking about, ive been using them for years, the differences are vast…believe me.
The Filters and standard tool bar with brushes n such are nowhere near the same. The only thing where they compare really is the name…photoSHOP paintSHOP.
Not trying to sound cocky though im sure i do. Photoshop is the best. hands down
This is soooooooooooooooo unfair. This is one of the best sites that i have found for films, games, music & tv. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
i’m using Vistaz Ultimate Cracked right now, dont care how wrong it is
hell im even using Firefox with Keygen
marty there is always
Mininova, ISOhunt, ThePirateBay, Suprnova, Eztvefnet, PureTnA, PussyTorrents
Sumotorrent, torrentscan…I can go on lol.
Demonoid is good stuff, my fav one of these sites but the majority of these sites have the same files or alternatives.
And if u want music just download limewire pro from one of those sites =/
Because I simply don’t believe that piracy has the effect that we are lead to believe it has. Take the big summer blockbusters, bourne, pirates, transformers, and die hard. All had CAM or DVD-rip versions online, yet they all booked $300M+. Most movie fans just dont substitute a cinema visit with watching a CAM version at home (same for most good TV series DVD box sets)
For software developers I believe that piracy has a net benefit, since having your software pirated is much better than being in complete obscurity. I believe with software (especially business software) is if somebody is pirating it, they probably weren’t going to pay for it anyway
We are never going to get to zero piracy, so we just need to deal with it. Adding up all the piracy that takes place and calculating that as a ‘loss’ to business is completely insane and untrue. On the positive side, piracy is forcing publishers into more consumer-friendly business models, like DRM-free music, better prices etc. There are economic forces at work here, and they wont be stopped
o.k. guys – not trying to flame anyone here, but downloading copyrighted content without legal consent is NOT stealing. It’s copyright infringement. If you feel guilty downloading copywrited media, then don’t download – but don’t accuse people that do of stealing.
I think one of the biggest reasons people do it is because of the draconian, assinine laws in place to prevent the spread of information. Couple that with the repeated, proven track record of these corporations and industry groups trying to screw the consumer (the guy that actually PAYS for the content) – and you’ve got a lotta pissed off people with broadband.
This isn’t about the “artist” – check the accounting ledgers. It’s about maintaining a bunch of archaic monopolies through questionable legal maneuvers and lining the pockets of politicians through special interest groups.
Sorry guys – the BSA/RIAA/MPAA aren’t trying to be noble. Just like the dinosaurs, they aren’t willing to evolve – and so, they’re gonna go extinct. Good riddance.
The effect of internet piracy on music sales is inconclusive — there is a small number of people who would have bought but downloaded, a small number of people who downloaded and THEN bought, and a very large number of people who would not have bought and downloaded. No one really knows how many fall into the first two camps, and I bet the same thing happens with software. I ended up buying Roboform after using a fully unlocked downloaded copy, but definitely would not have bought it after experiencing only the crippled unregistered version.
I understand why file sharing makes content creators nervous, but it’s not as simple as “you downloaded, therefore you stole from me.” Someone grabbing a $15 album that he would never buy — or at least he assumed he would never buy before hearing — does not equate to $15 stolen from the artist.
That really sucks, they had a great logo too
http://www.zero...nks/bittorrent/
It has always blown my mind just how pro-piracy, pro-IP theft, pro-copyright theft Techcrunch is. Always. You guys always write with such alacrity about how great it is to steal from legitimate copyright holders. Why?
Why? Why do you feel sorry for crap-holes like Demonoid? Screw them. They’re vermin feeding off the creativity of others. They facilitate the whole say theft of content that is not theirs.
I can’t imagine that if I were to mirror the content on Techcruch in a way that I made money off of it or in a way that took a chunk out of the $200,000 or so that Mike A. makes monthly, that Techcruch wouldn’t have some horse-faced lawyer pounding on my door demanding that I stop or he’ll shove is shoes sideways up my ass. I would think that if I were to even use the name “Techcrunch” in a pecuniary way I would get sued.
Why?
“For software developers I believe that piracy has a net benefit, since having your software pirated is much better than being in complete obscurity. I believe with software (especially business software) is if somebody is pirating it, they probably weren’t going to pay for it anyway”
That’s the thing Nik; read from this thread. What gets copied is what *is* known. Nobody’s copying en masse the $10 softpack bundles from Walmart (which are usually rock-bottom licenses on original software). I can’t keep counting the number of people who are building their “million dollar start-up” on ripped off copies of Zend Studio (what was that, $89 ? A few bucks more if you want more whistles ? Will make a million but can’t spend $89 or install Eclipse ?); full-time graphics designers (like our friend up there who claims expertise with everything in that realm) selling their services using a ripped PhotoShop. Contract software developers selling products built on a ripped copy of Delphi (they earn a full year of a pretty good salary on a tool, and they won’t pay for it !?).
The net effect for a large guy is significant, but for a small software producer in a niche market it really means life or death. Survey any market; there are far, far fewer producers of niche consumer-oriented desktop applications. Part of it moved to SOAS platforms, that’s true, but many simply choose not to invest in this space anymore. It’s not worth it. They target their efforts at businesses now (or produce hybrid-market software that will get ripped by — or explicitly allowed for — customers who will bring it to businesses); businesses can’t rip with impunity (the large ones anyway). Not all software is great for business, though. Take a look at SOHO and consumer-grade backup utilities, for instance; the area was red-hot in the early 90s, with plenty of small companies breathing down the necks of the big guys; that category got good fast. Now, the smaller players have left the market; and what you find on the shelves from big producers sucks so much (I can understand a failed restore from tape, but from files !?) little if anything is actually worth the sticker price anymore (obscure counter-references will be cute but won’t prove the point). Nobody’s rushing in to fill that void, and net-based solutions aren’t anywhere close to providing viable ones either. 3D design tools for the SOHO market ? Forget it, the real software development talent is focusing on large-scale studio uses. The gap between what SOHO can find and what LucasArts can use is astounding. Not paying for many innovations is borrowing against your market segment’s future. Talent just goes elsewhere, and you end up with dross, or have to wait for people tired with the state of affairs to organize an open source solution.
Frank>>
Techcrunch is provided free to the people who read it. There’s nothing to steal.
#21 hit it on the nose, at least in my world. I could never afford these apps. so I will never buy them. where is the loss ???? But they have infact gained a fan of their wares. And will and do promote them.
NOOO!!…. Demonoid will be back I’m sure… LONG LIVE DEMONOID!
totally agreed with you.. my initial d anime series is still at 87% percent of it completion. i wasn’t able to watch the series on tv because i had to go to work. long live demonoid – you’re a blessing for people like me. btw, thanks to the guys who remained seeders of it. peace to all!
damn…hope they come back soon
http://vidsonly.blogspot.com
Demonoid rules, screw all the software developers, and movie/music producers that have been ripping the public off for years. Bill Gates is worth how many trillions of dollars now?
@Boomer
Horse crap. None of this is free. All of the production that goes into Techcrunch cost MONEY. Servers, bandwidth, salaries, Advertising, etc…They would NOT be happy if a bunch of people hijacked their (Techcrunch) content and said hijacking affected the money flow at Techcrunch. They would sue. That’s the hypocrisy here. Sure as hell Techcrunch would sue if their content was being used without their permission and if it affected their bottom-line, but noooooooooooooooooooooooooo … they don’t give a rat if millions of people are stealing other’s content. Instead, they feel…sad.
Nik Cubrilovic is wrong.
They have the largest selection of hypnosis files on the net. I hope they come back
can you tell us more about this ‘hynosis’ thing? let’s do it to Frank – hahahhaahahah!
#29 and #32 – Read #27. It doesn’t hurt the big guys, sure, all those movie studio execs still make their money, Mr Gates is still worth trillions. But what about the smaller guys? Those that aren’t as well known, suffer a lot, since you might “promote” them and such, but you aren’t paying their livelihood. You might recommend them to another friend, who will in turn, also download with paying anything to the developer, and this continues on and on, and for the big companies like Adobe, nickles and dimes, for the small time developer, big setback, unless he gets bought by Google or Amazon or Facebook or Adobe or whatever big-time company’s acquisitions you follow
then why haven’t they all gone down? people have been ripping this shit for years. it was easier before recent years even. they haven’t gone down because people still buy their shit, because it’s good. these people are highly over paid anyway. their livelihood my ass. they make their “livelihood” and then 10x that amount. doctor and teachers should get paid what executives and musicians earn doing nothing but being creative and looking good. They don’t need over half of what they get. what they need to be doing is paying more to the underneaths.
and the little guy? i’ve never seen any “little guys” stuff, apps, music or otherwise on an torrent site. if it was there then it has no seeders, no leechers because whatever they created was shit. anything worth downloading and buying is being circulated to the max. if it’s good people will download it, if it’s worth it, people will buy it. people aren’t going to be duped into paying ridiculous prices for products or services that are empirically shown to be cheap to make or provide and if they do then it’s because there is no alternative.
i download things i would NEVER buy, and then if it’s good enough/works better than expected i buy it. that is how it works for most people that use sites like demonoid.
my 70 year old grandmother downloaded a copy of harry potter audiobooks and loved it so much she bought all the damn books to have at her home and then proceeded to buy the entire box set of movies and audiobooks (btw 300 bucks? for someone to read outload when she could get that for free if someone were always around? say what?) because she’s old and retired and can do such things. point is, not every single person that uses sites like demonoid are doing it to be malicious or because they’re criminals. it’s because people like a 70 year old women can’t understand what young people see in shit and aren’t willing to spend copious amounts of their hard earned mattress money on something publishing companies and authors make millions off of (and wouldn’t if people didn’t buy them, so obviously someones logic is flawed if these people are still filthy rich and and old lady can still get a copy of a book for free) in a more tangible format until they’re sure it’s worth their investment.
What did these companies do when people were sharing records and lending that copy of twilight to all of their friends? or when librarians were reading harry potter to multiple classes every friday of the week at school (something grams could sit thoruhg were she patient, hey, someone reading outload for free) or when you gave your friend that mixed tape/cd?
same premise, different mode of transfer and much larger scale is the only difference. if anything the products are going farther than they ever would have rather than sitting on someones shelf quietly because “oh sharings bad that’s illegal” . making it so in a perfect world of no circulation, which is what these people want, no one would ever hear of this stuff on such a large scale.
so let me repeat: it’s called sharing.
same premise, different mode of transfer and much larger scale is the only difference. and occasionally you get the asshole friend that doesn’t give it back.
Love it., This is exactly the point of many people who use sites like Demonoid. For me, reality bites especially when you got a lot of friends who doesn’t give the shit back and just totally forget it and then that’s it. You just lost another CD/DVD that you bought for how much? Well, most people won’t call it a crime or.. You borrow a book and read it, but the truth is – somebody already paid for these and should only be used by the person who bought it. Bravo to the person who made this ’sharing’ (or whatever they call it, a crime? or theft?) possible. B, you just earned a red star from me. Hahaha! nice essay.. and good job in stressing out the good use of it.,
Getting the specific stuff you need for your own private use is what matters most. Demand for services for demand like this will increase and will not be stopped for sure. People will try to answer these demands. One way or another, there would be another Demonoid that would emerge if ever they would take it down.
#35
The smaller companies rip you off just as much. I can’t count how many times I’ve paid $30 for software from a small company and it turned out to be a major piece of garbage. At least with torrent sharing, I can try out a full featured version to make sure it works for what I’m doing before I dish out the cash.
I understand what you’re saying though, which is why I primarily use Demonoid for music and software from the big companies.
I hope demonoid comes back.
Demonlover – You’re right, sometimes they can be ripoffs, but you have to realize, they are competing against the big boys, they’ll do anything to stay ahead. If anything, you can always take your business somewhere else
I’d love to see some actual facts (or at least testimonies of) how the existence and activities of demonoid.com have caused musicians, software developers, artists, etc to lose their homes, go hungry, file bankruptcy, etc.
Oh wait – that’s right – the trade groups have released multiple “studies” in which they’ve claimed to have “lost” [big, shocking number] in revenue. Yeah, that’s hard evidence.
Well, I am sorry that the site is down. I really liked it.
edgar – Read Louis-Eric’s posts, it’ll save me the time of having to write what he has written already.
Edgar,
It’s all propoganda so that record companies can still charge $15 for a CD, movie theaters can charge $10.50 per ticket for a movie, and companies like Adobe can charge $1000 for photo editing software. They will never have any hard evidence.
Edgar
That’s not the point though.
The point is that you and I are still stealing from other people. What you are doing is rationalizing the theft of copyrighted material.
It’s like saying, “bah, who cares if I killed this bastard, nobody really liked him anyway”.
I have friends who have bought games and software because they saw and used it on my puter. Most all I would have not bought anyway. For the most part I used Demonoid to get very hard to get music resently a remixed Aqualung album. There are very few copies of this even made. On top of this I own and paid for Many different verions of this album on vinal, casset, cd and and @ one time a few on 8 track. So did I steal?? No. At one time I had boot copy of Xp when first came out many of my friends went out and bought it after seeing how slick it was on my pute. I bought it also later plus three more legit copys for my three other putes. As someone once said “I’m not a Thief” Z.K.
#42: Wrong; let’s take movies for instance. In any major metropolitan market the movie presentation market is offered in five phases: a) Front-point theatrical releases; the movie is new, you want to see it before everybody else spoils it, or you like spending your time in comfort; they pay premium, you pay premium. b) Pre-DVD theatrical presentation; the movie has been showing in the full-comfort theatres for a few weeks and the big screens are shopping for new titles; the movie moves to budget movie theatres (here those are $2.50, less than the price of rental), so you can still see it on a big screen, albeit with less comfort (those are pretty much the old state-of-the-art theatres of a few years ago, so this is hardly a trash can, just not as nice as the latest and greatest); they don’t pay premium, you get a bargain; c) DVD release; three phases to that a) Rental Premium, b) Retail, c) Rental Discount. Same business as before.
Now instead of taking the movie industry numbers as gospel, go do your homework: how many discount movie theatres are there left in your neighborhood. Do movies last as long in the premium theatres as they once did, or does stuff get to DVD at a surprising speed ? How many of the small rental players are left now in your neighborhood, now that the premium rental market has collapsed ? How many independent movies have actually made it to your mainstream theatres ? Whenever people rip movies instead of paying for them, studios lose premium screen revenues, small businesses like mom-and-pop discount retail theatres collapse (funny how that is, the people actually offering you the best value in this whole chain get hurt the most, unlike what is claimed in previous posts), retail discount rental shops get replaced by Blockbusters, and you get to have your choice of risk-reduced major studio fare or…. well, not much else (when’s the last time in the last few years where you’ve seen a major studio take a risk on something like Fight Club ?). The big guys are hurting, but the small guys are pretty much gone. Every pirated industry’s that way now. You may be stealing software from the big enough guys, but even then you are preventing them from tooling up to actually compete with the company you loathe the most.
Look at university enrollment in movie departments; down, no jobs. Music ? Forget it. Software entrepreneurs ? Plenty, but they’re generally not thinking of your needs, just as you are not thinking of theirs.
I’m not trying to fuel a flamewar … but I still haven’t seen any real evidence of anyone directly suffering financial loss because of demonoid.com (or any other torrent site).
As for the closing of small movie theaters, mom-and-pop retail stores, etc – there are numerous factors that shape the landscape of business. Changing customer trends, new technologies (”legal” technologies), business acquisitions, etc. Everyone’s pissed and moaned about Walmart for years – killing small business by selling low (because they can buy at bulk). But no – let’s blame Demonoid. We’ve got all that concrete evidence to back up claims of joblessness and financial ruin.
Anyways … there’s TONS more copywrited content on IRC … why aren’t trade organizations going after IRC hosts?
i agree with everyone that wants demonoid back i also want it back these software corps and music companies are already rich thats how they got to make the cds and dvds so there not really losing out on anything as for the little guys they will surely make their money back from the few people that download their stuff because one person that downloads will tell others and then others and it will domino im sure somewhere along the line one of them will like it so much they will buy it but the main reason people download is because the prices for the software is fuckin crazy high maybe if they would come down a bit then people wouldnt really need to download because lets face it in the economic state we are in right now no one wants to blow $100s of dollars in order to do a job
so you download expensive software and music from a torrent site? Who cares? People who refrain from stealing warez, mp3s etc are so completely retarded. Why not take whatever you want so long as it’s freely available?
Sites like demonoid are a way of leveling he playing field in terms of what you can afford and what you want. If companies don’t want their software, music, films etc stolen, they should keep them unreleased. I have never felt any guilt whatsoever, and my downloads on demonoid exceed a thousand gigabytes. Internet=freedom.
Small time theaters went down when the average guy got a 65″ big screen at home with suround sound and you can rent a DVD. Now you can enjoy big movie and a beer! Z.K
No matter what reason people have for piracy, against or for it, the fact is that it will always be here, and you can’t change it.
However I do believe that the majority of people using pirated software would probably not buy any of them or a very minimal amount.
Who wants to pay a high price for photoshop when your a teenager who just wants to learn to make a few awsome looking pictures or avatars for a small fan site or forum?
I do believe that pirating as far as software does hurt companies. I do not however think that it affects them in as great a way as they say it does.
The only reasonable and effective solution to solve piracy is to provide optimal quality products at fair prices. If people feel a price is worth what they will get in return, then obviously this greatly reduces the possibility of high piracy rates. If they feel what the product offers is not worth the price, then they either don’t get it, or they pirate it for little or no charge at all. This is the reason DVD pirating is so high. People would rather pay 5-10 dollars for a DVD rip with slightly less quality, but about the same experience, versus 20 dollars for nothing more but a small increase in clarity.
Sadako, the point is, it isn’t intended to be freely available, at least not in the sense that you just download it and move on, not worrying about the developer/creator/songwriter.