TechCrunch UK’s Michael Butcher has an interview up with Mozilla Europe CEO Tristan Nitot that covers Firefox, DRM and Microsoft.
Nitot certainly doesn’t appear to be shy in his views on a number of topics. On DRM:
“I don’t think DRM has a future. Treating your customers like thieves is bad business practice. Today the customer is not ‘king’, they are considered thief first….It is stupid to think that the key to a DRM system won’t leak. So if it becomes more painful for a legitimate customer to use a product than it is for the pirates then that’s a problem.”
Nitot also states that Firefox isn’t becoming bloated: “No, Firefox is getting speedier and speedier;” whilst he is correct that Mozilla has held back from adding lots of extra features into Firefox, I’m surprised that he is claiming Firefox is getting speedier…perhaps it is, in between its memory leaks and intermittent crashes.
Full interview here.
The only thing that sets firefox apart at this point is the extensions. They’re nice once and a while, but Opera has everything I need, and its faster.
Forgive me duncan. This article makes no sense. We have no idea what is he talking about.
Of course he’s going to say it isn’t bloated. It’s the corporate line, he’s a corporate guy and it’s corporate BS. When you join any organization, you ALWAYS forget the user experience, yet evoke the end user like politicians evoke the “think of the children” mantra.
/Always.
I’ve been a FF user from the beginning and it’s bloated now and still bloating by the looks of what they have laid out for FF in the future. And what about FF being a memory pig? I run my FF lean…lean to the point of starvation and it STILL pigs out.
He said:
“We don’t want to incorporate features for the sake of features – only where it makes sense for the user experience.”
Nonsense. They bloat FF out for whinny developers. End users are of secondary concern.
Meh.
This post just got me to finally download and try Opera.
If he doesn’t think it is bloated, then they obviously aren’t going to fix the bloat. I know that he is just one of many with some guidance and deciding power, but I am starting to think that it is a common belief with people deciding what to work on in Firefox. Because of that, I am willing to look around.
If you agree, maybe you should too.
You guys clearly haven’t tried the Firefox 3 alpha. The new version is MUCH faster. The new rendering engine for Javascript is leaps and bounds better than Firefox 2.
No, I will admit I am not browsing on an alpha browser, my stable version crashes enough as is. But two points: Bloat isn’t only about speed, it’s about space as well. Unless it’s really necessary, I don’t want to keep upgrading and expanding my machines to do a relatively simple task. And saying it ‘is not’ bloated is different from saying it ‘will not be’ bloated in the future.
I agree with kevin, FF 3 seems faster.
I have to wonder if all the people who complain about FireFox are running Packard Bell 386s with Windows ME or something. I run mine with 23 addons (some of which, I don’t think I could live without) and never get crashes or slowness at all.
Does the guy even use his own product? While I love the extensions in Firefox, I actually switched back to Safari because my Firefox was hanging all too often – every website was getting slower and slower, even though I did all the optimizations suggested. It’s nice not to see the spinning beachball of death on my Mac for every site I visit now.
Treating your customers like idiots and giving them features that need to stay extensions is pretty bad business practice as well.
I like the “Firefox isn’t bloated bit”. Let’s have a look at the `top’ output on my Linux laptop:
top – 23:27:00 up 11:30, 5 users, load average: 0.56, 0.66, 0.70
Tasks: 102 total, 2 running, 98 sleeping, 1 stopped, 1 zombie
Cpu(s): 24.7% us, 2.8% sy, 0.1% ni, 70.9% id, 1.1% wa, 0.4% hi, 0.0% si
Mem: 1554744k total, 1541168k used, 13576k free, 563460k buffers
Swap: 514044k total, 0k used, 514044k free, 234160k cached
PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
8822 otis 15 0 433m 276m 42m S 20.4 18.2 125:44.68 /usr/local/Firefox/firefox-bin
Firefox is using “only” 276 MB. Not bloated? The app running the whole service behind http://simpy.com/ sometimes uses less RAM than that!
i like FF still, inspite of it being ‘bloated’
the thing i hate about IE is, if it crashes – all your browsing windows are gone.
but with FF, there’s this nice restore option in the event that happens.
Many users have experienced a wide variety of well documented cases where Firefox blasts cpu usage to 100% for extended periods. Even in normal instances Firefox is routinely the top process for cpu usage.
Mozilla has opted to ignore cpu usage as an “add-in problem” that doesn’t warrant serious attention. However, when the same version of ForecastFox has very different cpu usage footprints running on two different versions of Firefox you know there is a browser element to the problem.
Mozilla, wake up and smell the coffee!
Speedier and Speedier?? Is that what firefox is all about. Now that speedier and speedier bit sounds bloated to me. Overall firefox has been my preferred choice of browser for a number of other reasons. One prime reason being security.
I have food and water and a place to sleep but I have to restart my browser once or twice a week because it has a memory leak.
Won’t someone cry me a river? It’s hard to imagine anyone in the entire world having it any tougher than I do.
@11
I’d digg you down if I could for shameless spamming.
Dunk-can! This is such flame-bait!
Another one of those articles with titles designed to suck people in, you can do better!
http://fakestev...er.blogspot.com
Wow…I am surprised to see so much negative sentiment against firefox! They did a bet 7 years ago to build the internals of the browser using standard web technologies (HTML, CSS, Javascript, XUL). It was a big bet but it has been paying of and it is going to continue to pay off.
It has payed off because you have an open and consistent way to build extensions – extensions are a great way to foster innovation, when was the last time you saw IE or Safari innovate? Have you seen Joost?
It is going to continue to pay off because there are a lot of resources invested in making Javascript better and faster and that innovation will not only means that the websites and web applications are going to run faster but Firefox is also going to run faster.
Is it perfect? No but they are definitely heading in the right direction and at the same time foster a lot of innovation so people would be better off cheering and helping rather than complaining!
Does FF3 still eat up massive amounts of memory if you leave it open for a couple days?
I remember seeing a blog entry, some time ago, saying that the only reason that Mozilla Firefox was a safer web browser is that fewer people are using it… and that as that changes, it will be less safe.
I remember the past, when it seemed that Spyware was not an issue (or is that just because I was using a Macintosh… Then again, my iMac was hit by a bunch of malware also).
Anyway, I saw that TechCrunch is a weblog featured at the WordPress site, of notable sites that use that blogging service.
The five-year ‘Blogiversary’ for my main weblog just ended about 40 minutes ago… I have been using Blogger. I was considering, awhile back, a switch to Movable Type, or to TypePad, but could find no solid reason to do so. I am likely going to start a new blog however, and I have been wondering what blogging service to use. I remember when WordPress was started, and now, it seems that this is the one that people are using.
Would you recommend WordPress, over TypePad, and the other services?
Also, I have been told that WordPress is “free” – and their website says the same. But do they provide you with web space (like at yourname.wordpress.com) for free (like Blogger does, with yourname.blogspot.com)??
I have web space available, through my university’s student web server, and I can purchase a domain name, which will re-direct there. But if WordPress offers free server space – like Blogger does, with “…blogspot.com” – then I would prefer to use that.
I apologize for getting off topic, in this entry, but I know that your weblog deals a lot with technology, and as I noted above, this blog is featured, at the WordPress site. I would like to figure out this new-blog thing ASAP – that’s one less thing to worry about, during this problematic time. Any assistance you can provide will be much appreciated. Thank you!
As much as I would like to join in on the web browser discussion (I’m an Opera fan), I think I’d rather take up the DRM debate…
In my case, I believe it is absolute freedom. That is, when applied correctly. I have a Yahoo Music Unlimited Subscription that uses DRM as a huge part of its main functionality. I pay a fee of $143 dollars per year ($12 per month) — about the cost of buying a regular album once a month.
I can then get any music that I like, provided that it is in Yahoo’s music bank, which 95% of the time it is. If there is a song a like, I can download it right then and there, no questions asked, legally.
I also can install the Yahoo Music Jukebox on any machine, and stream my music from wherever I am. Or I can even transfer my music over to my mp3 player.
A leak on how to break the DRM would be fairly pointless if everyone had the same kind of system to download their music, so that point would be moot. It’s just that the main industry leader (yes Apple) has not taken the step forward toward music subscription services. If they did, most of the problems out there today could be solved, and everyone would be happy. Lawsuits would die down, consumers, music companies, music providers — everyone would be happy. Each would have a constant flow of what they want, money and/or music.
OK, done with my little rant there. I really believe that subscription services are the best option for the future.
And just to chime in on Firefox, adding in an external source of speed, ie Cairo, is not exactly great engineering. It seems like an afterthought. Great engineering should be done from the start, bottom to top.
Firefox is open source software. If you got a problem with it, fix it yourself. If you’re going to whine about Mozilla Corp, fork the project and make your own lean browser. And if you’re going to whine about “I’m not a developer, I’m a user, think about me or I’m gonna stop using Firefox” guess what nobody cares, developers would still be working on the browser. It doesn’t need you to survive, it’s free software. So either contribute or shut up.
@#21
“It doesn’t need you to survive, it’s free software.”
But is sure does need that Google advertising revenue.
“And if you’re going to whine about ‘I’m not a developer, I’m a user, think about me or I’m gonna stop using Firefox’ guess what nobody cares, developers would still be working on the browser.”
Many of the same problems might still exist with the Firefox then, even if I could only fix one. It would be worth my time to find other browsers out there that are not as buggy or that fit my needs — open source or not.
Firefox may not be bloated, but Tristan sure is.
…and why is he talking about DRM?…
DRM will die is a pretty bold statement. DRM is not treating customers as theives but put checks to make suer piracy is not main-stream business. If that was the case everything would be free, nobody will pay for anything. We will all go back to the barter system, where some software somebody will make free shoes and restaurant would serve free food, etc.
This discussion about DRM being a bad thing needs to stop. This junk about everything is free is BS to the nth degree. Linux consultants make around $150 per hour. If Linux and stuff on Linux was free then make people and companies will shutdown.
SG
Here’s the thing about Firefox – a lot of what goes on under the hood is NOT essentially Firefox but other developers’ code. The extensions which cause most of the bloats/leaks are ironically what make FF so powerful.
I’m hoping the Mozilla team starts extending Firefox, not by adding a lot of functionality to the core app (which would be defined as bloat by people who don’t need that functionality), but by releasing their own add-ons.
Firefox 2 sure is bloated. Maybe FF 3 will be speedier.
I’m surprised too that he is claiming that firefox isn’t bloated. Switched to avant browser after suffering the horrible 100% cpu bug version after version of firefox 2. Perhaps I would give firefox 3 a shot when it is out of beta (or alpha).
The DRM will die for sure, i know, i was trying to sell at my sites DRM content and DRM free content (i made it more expensive than DRM) and still people are ready to pay more for DRM free content.
I knew the Firefow guys were arrogant, but this is one is totally awesome.
how can someone be so stupid and ignorant.
And Where did he get this story on Microsoft: has he ever heard of Software+ services ?
I’m gonna apply for his job and have also my own share of Google’s dollars.
Duncan, I don’t know what version of FF you’re running, but which memory leaks and intermittent crashes are you talking about? Mine often runs for two weeks and more of heavy usage… before you make statements like that, maybe it’s time to disable all the extensions.
“intermittent crashes”? My Firefox installs have never crashed. I agree with Holger above… you must be doing something wrong.
I agree with some of the previous posters – my experience with Firefox has, for the most part, been trouble-free. It’s a lean, mean browsing machine that remains way ahead of IE (except for ClearType, that’s quite nice), so I really fail to see where the “FF is bloated” sentiment is coming from.
Then again, I guess you could make anything bloated if you stuffed it full with extensions…
if you are not a developer, you should not try firefox. firefox is meant to be used by sociable developers
@ #17: No.. he honestly can’t.
sorry for the double post:
@ #33: In my best A. Whitney Brown voice, “I concur wholeheartedly”.
…though I use Safari now mainly because FF on Mac is an awful, awful mistake. (Think IE for Mac, or Safari for Windows.) But when i used to be shackeld to Redmond, I used Firefox because it was THE only browser worth opening.
P.P.S (screw opera and screw anybody who uses it on any device with the exception of a mobile phone, Opera Mini is better than the default sprint thing… whatever it is. DO NOT recommend opera to your unsuspecting friends and family because you are doing nobody (except opera) any favors. Web developers (note that i did not say “Web Designers” so I am welcoming no replies from go-live-boy and his talking browser) will slap you with a trout for even mentioning that browser and it’s obnoxious rendering engine as a reasonable option… die painfully and aware then burn in the fiery pits of hell.)
Dear all Tech related CEO’s and Executives,
Please read this article!
Thanks,
Blake Brannon
I prefer firefox over opera because of the extensions.it never gave m e a problem
I’ll stop using “Simply’, simply because the owners spamed in #11. These folks are WAY too pushy.
Re FF. I simply have very little problem w/ it. Less than any other browser, out of a bakers dozen I’ve used. To each his own, why try to convince people ‘your’ pref is THE best?
Have you guys used Firefox 3? It’s a lot faster. That’s what he means when he says Firefox is getting speedier.
Firefox may still have memory leaks but I haven’t had it crash on my once in months and I have a LOT of extensions.
On a windows machine in the past I have had issues with FF consuming memory like a glutton at a Vegas buffet. But lately, I have not seen that on either my MS box or my MacBook. I use a fair number of add-ons.
Hi all,
Chris Mills from Opera here – some interesting points! I tend to agree with him on DRM; on the subject of crashes, I think there are people who’ve had bad crash experience with every browser on all the available OSes. I’ve never had a problem with Firefox or our own browsers (I have with MSIE,) but I do know people who have repeatedly. I even know someone who hates Opera Mini because it crashes for them all the time – I’d love to know what phone he’s using!
I also have some answers to comments above:
1. Joel Streliner: “This post just got me to finally download and try Opera.”
Cool! Let me know what you think (cmills [at] opera [dot] com.) I think everyone should try the new alpha version (http://www.oper...s/desktop/next/.) Ack, shameless plugs is not what I’m here for
2. lawrence: “the thing i hate about IE is, if it crashes – all your browsing windows are gone. but with FF, there’s this nice restore option in the event that happens.”
We have that feature in Opera too. In fact, with the new version you can restore entire windows with all tabs intact, not just tabs in a single window.
3. Matt – “P.P.S (screw opera and screw anybody who uses it on any device with the exception of a mobile phone, Opera Mini is better than the default sprint thing… whatever it is. DO NOT recommend opera to your unsuspecting friends and family because you are doing nobody (except opera) any favors. Web developers (note that i did not say “Web Designers” so I am welcoming no replies from go-live-boy and his talking browser) will slap you with a trout for even mentioning that browser and it’s obnoxious rendering engine as a reasonable option… die painfully and aware then burn in the fiery pits of hell.)”
Wow – you do sound like you’ve had some bad experiences! I’d love to talk to you about your issues with Opera, as we are always looking for more feedback with the aim of improving our software for the good of everyone. Be aware that our new browser version has an improved new JS engine, so a lot of those annoyances should subside.
thanks for listening all.
I guess most people posting here and who hate FF and blame FF developers use Safari ?
Well, here are 4 lines from a Safari xml configuration file :
IncludeDebugMenu
AddressBarIncludesAddBookmark
Wow. That’s the silliest use of XML ever.
I find it fun to read Safari users commenting on Firefox developers.
ouch ! I did not realize “<” was not escaped when posting comments here. Wow.
Sorry for that, you probably missed all the fun.
Here it is again (hopefully)
<key>IncludeDebugMenu</key>
<true/>
<key>AddressBarIncludesAddBookmark</key>
<true/>
Haha again.
@MikeW #24 : Bashing Tristan as a person is certainly not fair, and definitely rude.
Serious measures seems to have been taken to solve memory leaks issue:
http://www.squa...mory-leak-news/