Eudora, the email client that introduced many in the earlier days of the internet to email, officially died May 1, although not that many people noticed. Qualcomm decided to open source the Eudora code and the good folks at Mozilla have resurrected the once great desktop email client.
Code name Penelope (Eudora 8.0.0b1) is now available for download here.
According to Ars Technica the client is essentially Thunderbird with a Eudora skin. Keyboard shortcuts, toolbar icons, menu structures and behavior from Eudora are all present in the new Mozilla designed version. The new Eudora development team includes the same Qualcomm developers from the original Eudora team who are now providing their services in a voluntary capacity.
Many would argue that desktop email clients are old hat in the days of web based email, but some of us still prefer desktop clients, particularly when Gmail still doesn’t support folders.
I last tried Eudora about 18 months ago after experiencing problems with Thunderbird under Windows XP (I’ve since switched to a Mac); it was like channeling the past, the interface still looked similar to what I remember it did under Windows 3.11.
Kudos though to Mozilla, again they show what a properly formed open source development foundation can do, particularly one that isn’t overtly influenced by commercial interests. I’m not sure how many people will be rushing to download Eudora, but it’s nice to know that something with such a rich history goes on.
I tried Eudora on OS X yesterday but, ugh, they just don’t get it. It’s not Cocoa. A crappy custom toolbar, that acts strangely. Most of the controls aren’t native – including the tabs they used in the Preferences. It works, but it’s *clunky* – why use this over Mail.app on the Mac? On Windows, I’d rather use Thunderbird. Oh, and it’s over 50MB – bigger than Mail.app.
I haven’t seen a good argument yet for why Gmail should support folders in addition to labels, when folders only provide a subset of the functionality that labels provide. Anyone seen one anywhere?
Simon
aside from the fact that Yahoo does, fair call. But end of the day people moving from desktop mail to web mail are looking for a similar feature set to what they are use to, and (perhaps unfortunately) the majority a use to Outlook. Outlook has folders, and the only serious alternative Thunderbird does as well.
I never quite understood why people cannot see beyond the label “folders”. Gmail’s Labels do the exact same thing except that they give you the added ability of having your mail in more than one “folder” if you so desire. It is a folder people!!!
I think it’ll be nice for Gmail to have folders. The good thing about folders is that you can quickly move emails between folders. I always move emails that I’ve dealt with to “Reference” folders from their “Project” folders. Doing this with folder is much easier than doing this with tag (with tag you need to add a new tag and remove the old tag.)
I love tags in general. But with emails, I still prefer folders…
I used Eudora and actually have many years worth of email archived on it.
In migrating to Thunderbird for Mac I came to the horrible realization that the link between my incoming attachments and the messages they rode in on was forever severed — if I remember correctly it was because of the separate attachments folder, and possibly a stored directory link including the specific name of my hard drive?
Anyway, hope THIS Eudora doesn’t make that same mistake…
What do you mean Gmail doesn’t support folders? Just apply a single label to a message, and it will show up in that label alone – isn’t that what a folder is supposed to be?
Labels are a superset of Folders, IMHO – a folder is a restricted type of label (or tag, or whatever you want to call it) in which a message can only have a single label to which it belongs.
Well, looks like the same argument has been raised above; I was just pissed off to see the same argument for the 100th time, so came from Google reader and posted the comment in a hurry..
In response to Brandon’s comment above:
The current interface for adding/removing folders in gmail is sooooo 90’s. They should AJAXify it so that the labels show up beside the subject line in small rounded rectangles, with a tiny close button, clicking which removes the label. Se should also be able to click near the subject line to type-in a label, with auto-suggest.
Rakesh is right, folders are static while labels are dynamic. That’s the only difference between them: labels are more flexible and afford more options in how things can be categorized. Brandon’s complaint could be alleviated if Google were to offer a “change tag to” instead of only allowing addition or subtraction. I’ve previously submitted such a feature request; have you?
The one thing I like better about yahoo’s interface (new/beta) is how it has a more standard e-mail client interface feel to it. The ad that has to be closed between switching around e-mails, though, is a total deal breaker for me.
Eudora was the only reason I was forced to use Outlook Express. Yeah, it’s that bad. I tried using Eudora way back then but feature wise and UI just didn’t cut it for me. I remember how horrible the settings menu was, ugh.
I see no value in Mozilla wasting their time on Eudora when Thunderbird (my favorite mail client) does the job, and does it great.
The biggest problem I have with labels in Gmail is that there is no hiearchy to them like there is with folders, and call me old fashioned, but I tend to believe that many emails should fit into one category or another so I don’t find the exclusive nature of folders so limiting. Here’s another idea: when you add a label to an email, automatically remove it from the inbox view! I shouldn’t have to click on the “archive” button to do that. If I have gone to the trouble of assigning a label, then I obviously don’t want it still in my inbox! Or another idea: maybe offer a more traditional “folders” view for the labels. I’d say both of these are the biggest reasons I simply don’t use labels in Gmail.
I really liked Eudora, but that was 5 years ago, I don’t really think desktop clients are the way to go right now, they should make a twist to it
Google Docs have got it right. They call them folders and they use folder icons but they behave like labels in that a doc can be in many folders at the same time. Additionally there is a ‘magic’ folder called “Items not in folders” which gives you a view not possible in Gmail.
I think one of the barriers to the adoption of labels is a flawed metaphor. Real, physical labels are not used to group items, they are used to add information to existing items (or groups). Folders are a better metaphor and it may be conceptually easier to extend the folder metaphor into a world where something can be in two places at once than to one where a label collects your documents for easy retrieval.
I couldn´t agree more with Jmack and Tamlyn Rhodes. They describe exactly the reason why Labels are not a superset of Folders.
I am eager to see Eudora get some attention.
Different minds, with different needs means that there’s room for
a variety of methods to manage mail.
My pet peeve with web based mail was the need to reboot it to check, perhaps a pic or phone number, etc, unless one downloads individually every time.
With or without access to the web, I can review my mail, as needed.
Well I have to say, Eudora for me just didn’t work. I am interested to see how Mozilla can change it
Eudora! A blast from the past, I used it for years before finally switching to Outlook (not express) when I bought a new PC. Eudora was a good email client though started to struggle as my inbox & folders got large.
I have yet to find a web based email client that gives me the functionality that Outlook does, and on my laptop I can read / write emails when I am not web connected.
Haven’t used gmail but the I like ‘folders’ – you don’t file things with a label.
eudora is cool! i love it!
*presses the button* im going back to the future.
I use Eudora for redirecting emails. I think you can get an addon for Thunderbird for doing this now, but Eudora seems much more sophisticated when you need the extra features.
Thunderbird does have a much, much cleaner interface for your everyday email for sure.
Seems stupid that they didn’t just leave Eudora as it is/was and simply remove the ads. Why remake Thunderbird with a clunky user interface? I really don’t see the point.
Let’s comment on the product itself, rather than the features of GMail. The one absolutely great thing I love about Eudora (still my daily mail client) is its fantastic rules engine. I notice, for example, that when I use WebMail and expect an important message, I lose a whole lot of time (and concentration) periodically looking at the new mail to see if that mail came in. With Eudora, I never do: whenever *that* message comes in, I can configure it to say so via the speakers. I’ve saved a lot of time on that alone in a day. Or I can send the message through a summarizer, and have the results sent back when I am away via SMS to receive it as I deal with other business. Heck, I can even configure it to connect with my PBX to call a customer when an invoice payment has been received and they would like a confirmation.
That, and I *still* get webmail: Qualcomm Eudora knows what new mail to fetch, and which to leave in my account (for a few days or forever).
The desktop is still where back-end integration can best be achieved with the maximum expressive power and the maximum flexibility. Until I can set things up this way under webmail, I’d rather have both.
I hope they’ve moved the rules system integrally to the new platform.
Whoa, whoa… folders and labels are not the same thing. Folders are hierarchical. Labels are not. I’ve seen people create faux-hierarchies with labels, but things quickly look messier than my outlook ever did. I’ve had plenty of time (since Gmail came out) to try to adjust, and I still want the folders they promised.
Austin Storm has it right. The folder hierarchy from Eudora, Outlook, and Thunderbird is very powerful. If you try to fake it in Gmail, you end up with a huge list of labels and you have to scroll down a long “More actions” popup menu to find the “right” label. I used Eudora for many years on both MacOS and Windows, and now use Thunderbird, Gmail, and occasionally Yahoo Mail, which still seems a bit slow. Even if I could import everything easily, there’s no going back.
Aren’t we getting off topic here? Isn’t anyone going to criticize Duncan’s grammar?
Actually Duncan, your writing is fine. About 10X better than that hack who wrote the Freakonomics book (which was a torturous, junior high school level read.)
Yeah I had to jump in from Bloglines to comment on that gmail thing. Labels are folders on steroids, hmmmk. Thanks.
i switched to OS X earlier this year, but i had to have parallels installed, because i could not go without eudora. i’ve been using it for 10 years now. it is partially out of habit, but everything is there in eudora, and it’s simple to navigate. i use outlook and entourage at work, and there’s just too much overhead for my liking. i want to check mail, and that’s it.
i’ve played around with a few other mail clients in the past, but for me, nothing’s ever beat eudora.
(i had way too many problems porting my eudora files to eudora for mac, which is why i’m still using the windows version–i think they did users a disservice by not keeping it compatible, or at least providing a converter.)
“some of us still prefer desktop clients”
Do you seriously believe that many people use web-based email for day-to-day emailing? Even here in Google/Yahoo country, I can assure you that the vast, vast majority of email handling is performed with a client. Web interfaces are nothing more than nice back-ups.
You are kidding, right? Everyone I know in the senior circuit has switched to Yahoo! You can get your email anywhere on anyone’s machine. Total portability and you can get fun aliases too! Oh, and the young kids don’t even know there’s anything BUT web-based emails.
It’s a little disheartening to see so much focus on folders and labels. What’s significant here is that there was a Eudora release at all after Mozilla all but put Thunderbird out to pasture.
Mozilla né Firefox, Inc is where they’re investing their resources. What business do they have releasing (and subsequently supporting) a desktop mail client like Eudora?
Eudora, Eudora – she brings back such good memories…
@Chris: Mozilla hasn’t “put Thunderbird out to pasture.” That’s completely wrong, and not supported by anything that Mitchell (or others) have written. We’ve asked questions, we’re getting feedback. The future of Thunderbird is going through changes now, but we’ve neither put Thunderbird out (or, actually, released Eudora). It’s just a project page, and the notes that the project team put together are pretty clear that it’s not a Mozilla released (and supported) project. In any case, I put a clarification here: http://john.jubjubs.net/. More to come on Mozilla & Thunderbird & mail in the coming weeks, but things are happening.
to people wishing for label hierarchy, try a quick google search…
gmail label hierarchy
will take you straight to a niftly little greasemonkey script that does just the trick… and avoids those nastly long lists of labels by allowing the hierarchy to be collapsed.
Our world heals on going green as our Monarchs will resolve our differences in best shared oppertunitys await a world where race, religion,
cultural differences, and wealth will take a back seat to a truely United Nations.
I’m worried that my computer will revert to Windows NT 4.0 if I install Eudora on it. Some things are best forgotten.
Then again, I do wish that Yahoo Mail would have an option to use pine. . .
..Gmail sux rat turds. Long live Eudora!
Actually GMail labels have one drawback, in that you can’t get the concept of ‘nested folders’
I’d still go with labels over folders any day
If you look back a couple of comments, you’ll notice that nested labels are possible with a greasemonkey script. Just search for: gmail label hierarchy
هو طموح ونتعشم أن نكون علي قدر هذا الطموح لإعادة الاعتبار لثقافة إنسانية راقية هي طب الأعشاب علي الأخص العربي منه ومحاولة جادة لتقديم العون والمشورة في مجال يحدث فيه الكثير والكثير من المبالغات والمغالطات واللبس
أعشاب سيناء البرية النادرة من أعشاب أون لاين وخبير الأعشاب أشرف العناني
On the folders/labels issue, the fact is that Gmail and most web based app solutions are not very intuitive for business people who aren’t tech savvy, but who have worked in or do work in offices.
If they’ve had any experience in an office, they understand file cabinets and folders. From that perspective, labels are good for one thing – put a name, and date on it, then stick it in a folder. Thus, labels in GMail are counterintuitive to a massive number of people who end up having all their email in their GMail inbox never sorted, leaving them overwhelmed.
Eudora, on the other hand, is so much more intuitive to that market, at least from my business management and web consulting experience over the past 12+ years.
I’ve been using Eudora since the late 90s. With hundreds of clients.
With the folder hierarchy I maintain about 20 folders, and 50 mailboxes within those. The extensive filter and rules controls are critical – all of my client email gets sent to the exact mailbox in the right folder or otherwise processed as I need it to. I maintain six email accounts through different domains and different mail servers so the POP functionality is important as well.- it just can’t be beat from a business management perspective.
One of the most important business aspects for me is that I routinely back up all my folders and mailboxes and store them for legal purposes. Because of this I can go back seven years and retrieve client communication,email that supports tax deductions, etc. I’d never even begin to fathom doing that with GMail or any other web based mail solution given how unwieldy it would be with labels that pretend to provide better functionality than folders.
quick add to my post just now – From that non-tech perspective, because of how office workers think of labels, they don’t make sense because email already has a “label” as far as they are concerned – the From, Date and Subject field.
Duncan commented that this is “essentially Thunderbird with a Eudora skin” – to be more precise from the Penelope website -”Whereas Eudora is a branded version of Thunderbird with some extra
features added by the Eudora developers, Penelope is an extension (also
called an “add-on”) that can be used with either Eudora or Thunderbird.”
So if you are a Tbird user already, you could try it out first without switching to Eurora – but question is what features is Penelope going to give you other the new sounds and the ability to add any menu item to the toolbar. ?? I see the intent of Penelope was to make a TBird more to Eudora users liking (emailman.software.clients.eudora.penelope). But for the user of Tbird what is the incentive to try Penelope? The features of Penelope are not yet clear to me. Also can one uninstall Penelope?
Thunderbird is not perfect and I am currently looking to review Outlook again after many years. Thunderbird crashes but it is easy to use, has a clean interface and its easy to back up (Moz backup) – and best of all it is open source. It would be nice to find a middle path between the complexity of Outlook and the simplicity of Tbird. Eudora could be that choice.
مدونة الشاعر والباحث المستقل أشرف العناني