August 29, 2007

Crunchyroll Pushes the Envelope On Video Copyright

Michael Arrington

26 comments »

Crunchyroll is a San Francisco based startup that is a sort of YouTube for anime and other mostly Asian video content. The three founders, who asked to remain anonymous, are all employees of HotOrNot and the company operates out of HotOrNot’s San Francisco offices (although HotOrNot has no financial interest in the company, according to the founders).

The site launched in the summer of 2006 and has grown rapidly, particularly since March 2007. Worldwide comscore stats show 1.3 million unique visitors in July, up from 480,000 in March. The company also had nearly 100 million page views in July and is seeing 20% monthly page view growth.

That growth was apparently enough to get the attention of at least one possible suitor, Viacom. A source tells us that the company was very close to selling to Viacom for $10 million earlier this year, but the deal fell through when Viacom realized that owning the site, which contains a lot of copyright infringing content, may have hurt their positioning in the billion dollar ongoing litigation with Google. Crunchyroll refused to comment on the deal.

All video is uploaded by users and has advertising around it. Premium users who “donate” $6 per month to the site get an ad free version and higher quality video. Rumor has it the company is making $75k/month or so in revenue.

Crunchyroll’s business model is unique in that users pay them to view high quality versions of the content, much of which is copyright infringing. That certainly weakens their reliance on the Digital Millennium Copyright safe harbor provision, which protects service providers from liability for content uploaded by users.

The safe harbor provision only applies if the service provider “does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity.” It is arguable as to whether advertising around copyrighted content is a direct financial benefit, but it is even more difficult to suggest that a direct subscription fee, even if it is classified as a “donation” doesn’t trip the clause. Either way, Crunchyroll is certainly pushing the envelope as to acceptable behavior under the DMCA.

Stretching The Limits Is Often Lucrative

What’s interesting is that some of the worst offenders when it comes to copyright law have ended up doing very well.

ALLOfMP3 continues to stay in business despite being sued for $1.65 trillion by the RIAA. YouTube, the king of infringers, sold to Google for a cool $1.65 billion. Blogmusik managed to land licensing deals and remain in business. Imeem is growing like a weed despite a very chequered past. The list goes on.

Crunchyroll’s pursuit of premium donations is so audacious that it just might work for them. The company says they regularly comply with DMCA take down notices and other requests to have content removed. And they say that in general their relationship with the Anime and other content creators is very good. Some of those content creators have even approached the company and have suggested working together.

In the end, Crunchroll has over a million passionate anime users who come to the site daily to view content. The business model is secondary. Smart content owners will find a way to mine that user base and make more money.

Crunchyroll has not raised any capital to date, but is talking to venture capitalists now.

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  1. Forumer™

    I find “pay to view higher quality” an interesting model.

    My biggest gripe with youtube is the low quality. But I guess these things will improve as we catch up with broadband speeds with countries like Korea (you know, like in another 5 years!)

  2. Clyde Smith

    1. Forumer “another 5 years”?

    We probably won’t get Korea’s current speed that soon, at least not on as widespread or cheap a basis. Broadband in the U.S. is sad. But I’d prefer to be wrong about how quickly that will change.

    Crunchyroll:
    I can’t tell if some of the content is up from the creators but almost everything looks infringing that I can see on that site.

  3. Drew

    I agree with the views of this company.

  4. Darren Stuart

    Typo or does techcrunch own HotOrNot? company operates our of HotOrNot’s San Francisco offices

  5. Beas

    What is the difference between this site and videohybrid besides monetizing content they dont own with a pay/donation model in addition to contextual/etc ads ?

  6. ihero

    the ethics and business scale — why do what is right when your making money? Very sad folks find it acceptable.

  7. Tony Hung

    “much of which is copyright infringing”?

    I think that should read “*ALL* of which is copyright infringing”.

    The reason why it continues to do so well is that it is doing to asian cinema and anime what China / East Asia does with abandon to North American cinema — infringe the hell out of it, and then apologizes for it (take down) only when asked to.

    The only reason why it continues to exist is because the companies that it infringes upon don’t — for whatever reason — want to flex their legal muscle across the Pacific Ocean against a North American company.

    You can bet that if any of them ever did, Crunchyroll would go down faster than a wunderbed in a fistfight

    Cheers
    t @ dji

  8. Richard Corsale

    The only question I have is: How much is 500k PVs worth given their demographic average?

    Have they any numbers on the “pay for higher quality pirated content” Uhrumm business model?

    –Rich

  9. John Honda

    Last year, YouTube has erased 29,549 Japanese videos from their site by request from 23 different businesses and organizations, including NHK, several other Japanese television stations and the Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Performers (JSRACP). Amine was one of the top YouTube categories before the take down.

    It seems anime migrated from YouTube to CrunchyRoll and JSRACP will take action inevitably. And that would be the least of the site’s problems.

    Looks like the site is 100% infringing and TechCrunch is right. DMCA DOES NOT offer any protection to the site or it’s founders. They can be all be liable, including HotorNot as a conspirator in the massive infringing operation.

    The “donation” scam is a feeble attempt to circumvent the law as DMCA is EXPLICIT in defining an infringing entity “does not receive a financial benefit directly attributable to the infringing activity.” In fact, the operation is so blatant and in-your-face that this will (not may) require criminal rather than civil enforcement.

  10. Ichiro Watanabe

    I suspect Hummer Winblad will not be one of VCs. Hummer Winblad was sued by copyright owners for funding Napster and settled out of court rather than drag down their fund, general and limited partners. VCs are in the business of investment and risk to get high returns for the limited partners and general partners. Smart VCs are not in the business of knowingly funding a known intellectual property infringing entity. It would be interesting to see how a VCs limited partners would view such an investment. There are way too many other good deals for VCs to invest in. Venture capital is not a game of craps.

  11. lemon obrien

    hot or not is still libel. it’s implicit support and you can’t be an employee for a company and create something like this, and while running and developing it at work and not be libel.

    i say sue the motherfuckers cause if they can’t come up with a better idea other than ripping off asian anime, cause they suck, then the world will be a better place without them.

  12. JayDawg

    The founders asked to remain anonymous? Do they think their anonymity will protect them from legal action?

  13. why anonymous?

    Why would the founders stay anonymous… its not like we don’t already know who the founders of hot or not are… and if the company is aware of the employees’ efforts, chances are the founders of hotornot are also the founders of this company…

    one possible explanation is that they don’t want people to think that they are losing focus from hotornot and focusing too much on this new effort… otherwise, people might assume that the hotornot guys don’t think that hotornot shows as much promise as this new idea…

    its kinda like moonlighting… but siliconvalley style :)

  14. The Truth Revealed?

    Crunchyroll removes videos on requests, it’s popular to licensing companies and Crunchyroll will in no time remove the episodes completely from their website. This is one of the most faulty articles I’ve EVER seen in my whole entire life. If you guys actually went to the site you’d actually know this. Paying to get high quality is in no fucking way BUYING the anime show, it’s getting higher streaming quality, that’s not buying. And it’s to help keep the site up and running and for it not to die out obviously.

    If you’re going to sue before requesting for the site to remove the show, something is wrong with you.

  15. Rachel

    wow, what a conspiricy theory. Michael Arrington, you must have one vandetta against Crunchyroll to make up these lies.

    Everything the 14th commenter said is true.

  16. Mushroomjay

    Haha. Funniest thing is that this seems as if it’s all bull shit.

  17. asinine

    See these allegations of profit would actually be believable if you provided some sort legitimate resource. Your own back door investigation isn’t exactly completely compelling now is it?

    Interesting statistics you have there though like 75k/month. Also the “20% monthly page view growth” is misleading. A quick check through Alexa shows that between August and September there was a large decrease in page views which then rebounded by the end of the month. So it seems that the statistic is pulled up higher because of some potential outliers. Now I don’t know how you produce your data, but this seems a bit questionable. I doubt the impartiality of the article to be honest.

  18. pyrosever

    “Rumor has it the company is making $75k/month or so in revenue”.
    We all love a good rumor, but……

    Later: “Crunchyroll has not raised any capital to date, but is talking to venture capitalists now.”

    Which is it? Why print a rumor and then contradict it yourself?

  19. A crunchyroll user

    In the begining, crunchyroll actually removed all licensed anime. There are still many licensed anime that are still not taken down though. I actually watch unlicensed anime rather than unlicensed ones.

    The only reason why I migrated to crunchyroll from youtube is because youtube stupidly removed ALL anime from the site wheter if it was unlicensed or licensed.
    My source of anime was cut off.
    I really hope crunchyroll dosen’t end up like youtube.

    And I fully agree with the 14th comment.

  20. Interested

    Interesting how some of your names I am sure I read on Crunchyroll. Maybe you are just defending whos to say there isn’t some truth on this? For example, MushroomJay happened to have been a moderator at Crunchyroll. So it would make sense to keep it in his best interest, to not bash the site he held power over for so long.

    Even if this was all a bullcrap it does lead to one question. Who is running Crunchyroll? DO you really believe Shinji was just some guy who created a very elegantly designed site (Beyond the skills of even the best site creaters without even daring to use a host which is also very unique) and then he hardly if ever posts on it but spends all his time working on it? That is just a ludicrous belief. I have two sites I run and I spend a lot more time posting on them and enjoying them then working on them I am sorry.

    Also even if say Shinji did do that. Isn’t it funny how he is so nice and happens to be known as a great nice guy. Yet he gets millions of messages a day I am sure how is it any one person could respond to that? But a bunch of people working at a HotorNot office Could and Shinji is the perfect Mascot for the company.

    I think there is a lot more going on here then just some Asian kid in California people.

  21. punkfilter

    I myself am one of the Old School Crunchyrollers (despite being banned). I clearly remember how on December 22nd, 2006, there was a huge removal of anime. And since then, “Shinji” and all of the according moderators have done their best to keep the licensed material off of the site.

    But if you seriously think about this, there are indeed millions of users. If only a handful of moderators work on keeping the site free of the bullshit some of these users post, then it is no wonder that some licensed material leaks through.

    And also, CR can hardly be attacked for uploading licensed material, for as the article mentioned, YouTube is infringing nearly every copyright there is. However, the clincher for the anime producers is that it also serves as an advertiser. For not all episodes are uploaed to CR, so if a user gets hooked and wants to see the episodes they missed in high quality (cuz face it, CR quality is pretty shitty), they buy the dvd.

    So in summation, just leave CR as it is. And if any anime producer wants to actually make money of of having their work stolen, they should make a quick deal with CR, because it can only get bigger.

  22. The Truth Revealed? (again yay)

    Well Mushroomjay, was a mod. But all moderators are getting paid for is free High Quality. And also Mushroomjay is a resigned moderator, the guy is 14 years old, I doubt he’s keeping some super secret we don’t know about. I doubt some super genius website owner would hire a moderator such as him (no offense.) Mods have the ability to “work” whenever they wish, which they don’t usually abuse. I believe Shinji is a nice man, but definitely not THAT nice to respond to millions of CRAP messages, sent to him. Come on, do they really expect for them to be answered? He has not the time for that.