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	<title>Comments on: Jaxtr Closes $10 Million Series A; Announces 1 Million Users</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/</link>
	<description>Startup and Technology News</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jaxtr Racks Up Over 5 Million Users In Under 5 Months</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-2300122</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaxtr Racks Up Over 5 Million Users In Under 5 Months</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-2300122</guid>
		<description>[...] August, Jaxtr reported 1 million users and $10 million in financing. In response to the growth, they&#8217;ve brought on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] August, Jaxtr reported 1 million users and $10 million in financing. In response to the growth, they&#8217;ve brought on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; Jaxtr Racks Up Over 5 Million Users In Under 5 Months&#160;&#8212;&#160;Instant Web Meetings.COM - Video Conference, Collaboration, E Learning, Unified Communications</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1832401</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; Jaxtr Racks Up Over 5 Million Users In Under 5 Months&#160;&#8212;&#160;Instant Web Meetings.COM - Video Conference, Collaboration, E Learning, Unified Communications</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 06:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1832401</guid>
		<description>[...] August, Jaxtr reported 1 million users and $10 million in financing. In response to the growth, they’ve brought on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] August, Jaxtr reported 1 million users and $10 million in financing. In response to the growth, they’ve brought on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: August 28, 2007 at next media update</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1696873</link>
		<dc:creator>August 28, 2007 at next media update</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2007 18:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1696873</guid>
		<description>[...] VoIP&#8217;s Jaxtr Closes $10MM Series A; Announces 1MM Users TECHCRUNCH Jaxtr has raised a $10 million Series A round led by August Capital with Mayfield Fund, Draper Richards, Draper Fisher Jurvetson and Luxemburg-based Mangrove Capital participating. They&#8217;ve also doubled their registered user base over last month, totalling 1 million users. They plan on getting to a break even point on the investment and to total 20 million users by the end of next year. Jaxtr, like GrandCentral , uses VOIP as a utility to add features to your existing phone. Many other VOIP startups focus primarily on cost savings. Its service lets you anonymously post your phone number on the web and get cheap long distance calling rates. It works by connecting calls to your existing phone service through a Jaxtr number on VOIP. Calls are anonymous because they are made to a new Jaxtr number instead of your existing number. This lets you push all calls to voicemail and choose who can and can&#8217;t call through directly. Calls are cheaper because long distance calls are made over VOIP lines instead of standard phone networks. Source&#62; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] VoIP&#8217;s Jaxtr Closes $10MM Series A; Announces 1MM Users TECHCRUNCH Jaxtr has raised a $10 million Series A round led by August Capital with Mayfield Fund, Draper Richards, Draper Fisher Jurvetson and Luxemburg-based Mangrove Capital participating. They&#8217;ve also doubled their registered user base over last month, totalling 1 million users. They plan on getting to a break even point on the investment and to total 20 million users by the end of next year. Jaxtr, like GrandCentral , uses VOIP as a utility to add features to your existing phone. Many other VOIP startups focus primarily on cost savings. Its service lets you anonymously post your phone number on the web and get cheap long distance calling rates. It works by connecting calls to your existing phone service through a Jaxtr number on VOIP. Calls are anonymous because they are made to a new Jaxtr number instead of your existing number. This lets you push all calls to voicemail and choose who can and can&#8217;t call through directly. Calls are cheaper because long distance calls are made over VOIP lines instead of standard phone networks. Source&gt; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: michigan credit card processing</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1669003</link>
		<dc:creator>michigan credit card processing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:17:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1669003</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;michigan credit card processing...&lt;/strong&gt;

michigan credit card processing...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>michigan credit card processing&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>michigan credit card processing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: online marketing melbourne</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1654792</link>
		<dc:creator>online marketing melbourne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 03:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1654792</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;online marketing melbourne...&lt;/strong&gt;

online marketing melbourne...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>online marketing melbourne&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>online marketing melbourne&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ohm</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1623123</link>
		<dc:creator>ohm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 15:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1623123</guid>
		<description>Hi ,
through Jaxtr I hv got a US number and my uncle calls from US to that US number... is thats Leagal in US and India???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi ,<br />
through Jaxtr I hv got a US number and my uncle calls from US to that US number&#8230; is thats Leagal in US and India???</p>
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		<title>By: Tech Untangled &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Will Jaxtr upstage Skype</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1586061</link>
		<dc:creator>Tech Untangled &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Will Jaxtr upstage Skype</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2007 22:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1586061</guid>
		<description>[...] will incorporate advertising into its services and may also pursue new services on social networks. Longer term, Jaxtr plans [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will incorporate advertising into its services and may also pursue new services on social networks. Longer term, Jaxtr plans [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy Johnson</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1576681</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Aug 2007 04:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1576681</guid>
		<description>@ Thomas.  This is Tim at Jangl.  For the record, Jangl has never claimed it has 20 million customers.  We have, instead, accurately claimed that we are in 20 million profiles worldwide -- profiles in which calling is powered by Jangl.  TechCrunch gets it right in the article above by stating that our newest partners brings our "online profile presence to over 20 million."

This also addresses the flaw in the second part of your argument.  Because Jangl's partner deployments are custom-developed specifically for those partner environments, they don't move the needle at all at Alexa -- they're not supposed to.

If you have any other questions about Jangl, please don't hesitate to contact us, "Thomas."  We advocate transparency -- and abhor armchair analytics -- as much as you do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Thomas.  This is Tim at Jangl.  For the record, Jangl has never claimed it has 20 million customers.  We have, instead, accurately claimed that we are in 20 million profiles worldwide &#8212; profiles in which calling is powered by Jangl.  TechCrunch gets it right in the article above by stating that our newest partners brings our &#8220;online profile presence to over 20 million.&#8221;</p>
<p>This also addresses the flaw in the second part of your argument.  Because Jangl&#8217;s partner deployments are custom-developed specifically for those partner environments, they don&#8217;t move the needle at all at Alexa &#8212; they&#8217;re not supposed to.</p>
<p>If you have any other questions about Jangl, please don&#8217;t hesitate to contact us, &#8220;Thomas.&#8221;  We advocate transparency &#8212; and abhor armchair analytics &#8212; as much as you do.</p>
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		<title>By: marques</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575930</link>
		<dc:creator>marques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575930</guid>
		<description>@Thomas, I bet my bottom dollar that TC does not, they push out 4 articles a day (quantity over quality???). I doubt TC spends any resources doing fact checking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Thomas, I bet my bottom dollar that TC does not, they push out 4 articles a day (quantity over quality???). I doubt TC spends any resources doing fact checking.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575780</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 17:39:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575780</guid>
		<description>Interesting article, but I seriously doubt that Jangl has 20M users (20x Jaxtr's number of accounts). A simple Alexa pull shows that Jangle is basically not a relevant company in this space:  http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?site0=jaxtr.com&#38;site1=jajah.com&#38;site2=jangl.com&#38;site3=&#38;site4=&#38;y=p&#38;z=3&#38;h=300&#38;w=610&#38;range=3m&#38;size=Medium&#38;url=perfspot.com 

Since Jangl and Jaxtr cater to similar audiences with likely comparable usage characteristics, one should have expected Jangl's pageviews to be ~20x those of Jaxtr. Instead, Jangle is hardly visible on the Alexa chart.

Makes me wonder if Techcrunch checked the validity and reasonableness of their numbers before publishing this piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article, but I seriously doubt that Jangl has 20M users (20x Jaxtr&#8217;s number of accounts). A simple Alexa pull shows that Jangle is basically not a relevant company in this space:  <a href="http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?site0=jaxtr.com&amp;site1=jajah.com&amp;site2=jangl.com&amp;site3=&amp;site4=&amp;y=p&amp;z=3&amp;h=300&amp;w=610&amp;range=3m&amp;size=Medium&amp;url=perfspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.alexa.com/data/deta.....rfspot.com</a> </p>
<p>Since Jangl and Jaxtr cater to similar audiences with likely comparable usage characteristics, one should have expected Jangl&#8217;s pageviews to be ~20x those of Jaxtr. Instead, Jangle is hardly visible on the Alexa chart.</p>
<p>Makes me wonder if Techcrunch checked the validity and reasonableness of their numbers before publishing this piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575621</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575621</guid>
		<description>Interesting. perhaps if they added an 'e' right before the 'r' in their name I wouldn't bundle them in with billions of other Web 2.bore startups.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. perhaps if they added an &#8216;e&#8217; right before the &#8216;r&#8217; in their name I wouldn&#8217;t bundle them in with billions of other Web 2.bore startups.</p>
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		<title>By: Moshe  Maeir</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575570</link>
		<dc:creator>Moshe  Maeir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575570</guid>
		<description>@marques, even if if they tell the truth, the question is not how many people registered, but how many use the service, how many minutes do they generate and how much revenue does it produce.
As I wrote before there is no such things as free calls http://www.flatplanetphone.com/wordpress/?p=278
The only question is how much does your VC have to spend, once that is used up...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@marques, even if if they tell the truth, the question is not how many people registered, but how many use the service, how many minutes do they generate and how much revenue does it produce.<br />
As I wrote before there is no such things as free calls <a href="http://www.flatplanetphone.com/wordpress/?p=278" rel="nofollow">http://www.flatplanetphone.com/wordpress/?p=278</a><br />
The only question is how much does your VC have to spend, once that is used up&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: marques</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575540</link>
		<dc:creator>marques</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:48:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575540</guid>
		<description>#3, I feel the same, one day someone (uncov?) will discover/prove a little dark secret of most of these startups.  That is the act of faking and inflating the number of register members and traffic.  I can see this as a easy and simple tactic at fooling VCs into handing out large sums of cash.

I was in business with a shady businessman a while back and he mention that only you always advertise your subscribers by a factor of 10X.  He acted as if it was the 'norm' and you would be a fool to not do so.

This was 2 years ago and I an no longer working with this individual, but I not be surprise that a good number of startups advertise their membership and traffic by a factor of 100X.

My new 'startup' has less than 100 users and I refuse to inflate this number for hype.  Sites like TechCruch should also be wary of falling victim of these unethical tactics.  When TC posts that site X has 10 million users where it only has 1K, people will belive in the lie b/c they see TC as a trusted site.

Hopefully the honest startups will survive the next bubble burst.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#3, I feel the same, one day someone (uncov?) will discover/prove a little dark secret of most of these startups.  That is the act of faking and inflating the number of register members and traffic.  I can see this as a easy and simple tactic at fooling VCs into handing out large sums of cash.</p>
<p>I was in business with a shady businessman a while back and he mention that only you always advertise your subscribers by a factor of 10X.  He acted as if it was the &#8216;norm&#8217; and you would be a fool to not do so.</p>
<p>This was 2 years ago and I an no longer working with this individual, but I not be surprise that a good number of startups advertise their membership and traffic by a factor of 100X.</p>
<p>My new &#8217;startup&#8217; has less than 100 users and I refuse to inflate this number for hype.  Sites like TechCruch should also be wary of falling victim of these unethical tactics.  When TC posts that site X has 10 million users where it only has 1K, people will belive in the lie b/c they see TC as a trusted site.</p>
<p>Hopefully the honest startups will survive the next bubble burst.</p>
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		<title>By: Konstantin</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575324</link>
		<dc:creator>Konstantin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575324</guid>
		<description>If you do a Google search, you see not only many posts about jaxtr, but also many people posting their jaxtr link/widget. And the US is not the only country with Internet users anymore :-) If you look at sites like Microsoft, Yahoo, YouTube, Wikipedia, Skype, etc., you will find that over 80% of their traffic comes from outside the US. And that accurately reflects the number of Internet users in the world. While ad monetization is more difficult outside of the US/Europe/Japan/Australia, mobile phone operators and handset manufacturers are seeing strong revenues and the best growth in places like India and China. With 48% of visitors from the US, TechCrunch does not reflect the international nature of the Internet quite yet, but as it gets bigger, it surely will. We are pleased to be working on helping make the world a smaller place. And, actually, since most calls are made through jaxtr without an Internet connection (you just dial a local number to make an international call), a lot of the activity of our users is not measured accurately by the likes of Alexa compared to solutions where you initiate the call from the Web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you do a Google search, you see not only many posts about jaxtr, but also many people posting their jaxtr link/widget. And the US is not the only country with Internet users anymore <img src='http://www.techcrunch.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> If you look at sites like Microsoft, Yahoo, YouTube, Wikipedia, Skype, etc., you will find that over 80% of their traffic comes from outside the US. And that accurately reflects the number of Internet users in the world. While ad monetization is more difficult outside of the US/Europe/Japan/Australia, mobile phone operators and handset manufacturers are seeing strong revenues and the best growth in places like India and China. With 48% of visitors from the US, TechCrunch does not reflect the international nature of the Internet quite yet, but as it gets bigger, it surely will. We are pleased to be working on helping make the world a smaller place. And, actually, since most calls are made through jaxtr without an Internet connection (you just dial a local number to make an international call), a lot of the activity of our users is not measured accurately by the likes of Alexa compared to solutions where you initiate the call from the Web.</p>
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		<title>By: 1daysports.com</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575244</link>
		<dc:creator>1daysports.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575244</guid>
		<description>im beginning to wonder where all these users come from. I feel as if I am a very avid internet user and researcher and until many things pop up on crunch, i have never heard of them before, let alone any of my friends who dont even know what tech crunch is. I feel like we are entering/already entered into a day of bogus users/traffic and companies such as these,  domain monetization sites, ad marketplaces, etc. that are leaving false hopes for people in the industry who think that they are generating real clicks, real traffic and real users. I dont believe 1 million users for a second. Lets get rid of these trash sites/traffic and look for more novel ideas who dont pertain to the average geek. Im not trying to be Mark Cuban, but come on.....Am i completely out of line?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>im beginning to wonder where all these users come from. I feel as if I am a very avid internet user and researcher and until many things pop up on crunch, i have never heard of them before, let alone any of my friends who dont even know what tech crunch is. I feel like we are entering/already entered into a day of bogus users/traffic and companies such as these,  domain monetization sites, ad marketplaces, etc. that are leaving false hopes for people in the industry who think that they are generating real clicks, real traffic and real users. I dont believe 1 million users for a second. Lets get rid of these trash sites/traffic and look for more novel ideas who dont pertain to the average geek. Im not trying to be Mark Cuban, but come on&#8230;..Am i completely out of line?</p>
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		<title>By: Yakov</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575088</link>
		<dc:creator>Yakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 07:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1575088</guid>
		<description>I am in favor of making international calls from my phone at low cost. The more such services as Jaxtr the better is for consumers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in favor of making international calls from my phone at low cost. The more such services as Jaxtr the better is for consumers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574989</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 06:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574989</guid>
		<description>I'm sorry, who?

1 million users?  Is this legit?  Is it popular in some other country or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, who?</p>
<p>1 million users?  Is this legit?  Is it popular in some other country or something?</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574924</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 05:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574924</guid>
		<description>He explains the dips as periods during which they had trouble keeping up with the growth = outages.  Their lame Facebook toy is rife with feedback about being broken.  I'm stunned that a company like this gets that 10M for what little it does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He explains the dips as periods during which they had trouble keeping up with the growth = outages.  Their lame Facebook toy is rife with feedback about being broken.  I&#8217;m stunned that a company like this gets that 10M for what little it does.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574864</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 04:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/27/jaxtr-closes-10-million-a-1-million-users/#comment-1574864</guid>
		<description>"totalling 1 million users. ... They plan on getting to a break even point on the investment and to total 20 million users by the end of next year."

and on the 7th day, they will rest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;totalling 1 million users. &#8230; They plan on getting to a break even point on the investment and to total 20 million users by the end of next year.&#8221;</p>
<p>and on the 7th day, they will rest.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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